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-   -   Framing Scratchboard/Claybord (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589190)

sandrawillard 10-20-2009 09:48 PM

Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I have read on Ampersand's packaging that scratchbord/claybord doesn't need to be protected by glass but that varnishing it will protect it. However, I've found that the black ink can still be marred if I'm not careful to keep things away from it's surface.

So, my question is, am I such a perfectionist that I'm being too neurotic about little scratches/imperfections? Do most of you consider that the nature of the material and don't fret over it? Or am I doing something wrong such as not applying enough varnish?

Do you frame with glass? Help!

PS - If I should be posting these discussion-type threads somewhere else please let me know. Usually I only see posts about WIP and Finished works so I'm uncertain if this is OK.

PatrickHedges 10-20-2009 11:06 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Sandra, I think the consensus is no glass but lots of varnish, although that was a while ago. A survey of newer members might be different.

In the hints sticky thread there are different threads about all sorts. Here are three framing threads
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489479
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491849
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500287

I also prefer the floating look where the board is on a solid mount (with no hole in it) and it raised with the use of a spacer. It's much cheaper to frame this way too. Here's an example done in a cheap frame which a customer wanted. Total framing price $18.


sandrawillard 10-21-2009 12:15 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Ooohhh very nice!

I love the float mount look myself. Did you use foam tape to attach? Is that foam core board that it is mounted to?

WildVisions 10-21-2009 12:44 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Patrick,

Nice idea there with the float! I never thought of that! Hmmm...I shall have to one day try that one.

Sandra,

I suppose it's a throwback from the fact that I paint, but I just can not feel at ease framing my scratchboard work without glass. I fear that it will get scratched/scuffed/dirty, so I stick it behind glass. Here is an example I did about a year ago. The glass I used is museum glass, which is expensive, but has a neutral color tone (no greenish tint) and is pretty glare resistant, with only mild blue glare here and there.


It's a bit hard to see, but the top mat is a lovely textured mat that looks as if it is made of flakes of graphite, it has that same kind of sheen. The bottom mat is suede in a cherry red, to match the cherry wood frame. I like using a pinch of color to help 'brighten up' my SB work. I can't wait to get stuff framed again at the end of the year.

Crias 10-21-2009 01:14 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Framing is something I have been learning a LOT about in the past 6 months since starting to show my work in galleries.

My feeling is that varnish is not enough if your work is
1)in a public place where there is moderate traffic
2) will not protect your work if something heavy or moderately abrasive is rubbed against it
3) does not stay neutral in color if something is splashed on it (ie oily areas turn a darker black, water spots will show, etc.)

I have had work with 6-8 layers of varnish get scratched down to the clay while hanging at a church not too long ago. I do not know if the scratch was accidental or deliberate, but if I hang work in a public location other than a museum you can bet it will be behind glass.

Like Cristina I prefer museum glass as it looks almost like there is nothing in front of it and has little glare. On the down side I don't feel very safe shipping work with glass in front of it, as it would be possibly catastrophic if the glass broke over a scratchboard! I don't have a great solution for shipping to shows, as I hate the look of plexiglass (even the museum grade plexi).

I have shown my work in museums without glass and had no problems (knock on wood), but do worry about it. Also what is someone accidentally sprayed it with glass cleaner or some other cleaner? I don't know if it would be affected.

Tomorrow I will post some pics of some pieces I recently had framed at a professional shop with museum glass and linen liner. It is what one of my gallery owners recommended and looks very nice, but not cheap ($250+).

PatrickHedges 10-21-2009 01:22 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Looks very nice Cristina.
Quote:

Patrick,

Nice idea there with the float! I never thought of that!
Can't claim it as mine. I learnt it from those threads about floating frames.


Sandra, I actually used glue and coreflute which is plastic corrugated card, about 3mm thick. For larger pieces, just use two. Make certain it's small enough to not be seen if someone tries to peer behind your work but large enough to hold the work permanently.

I don't use double sided tape as I'm concerned that will deteriorate and one day you art will be on the floor. A good wood glue should work. However, make certain your woodglue doesn't buckle your mount card under the work.

sandrawillard 10-21-2009 01:25 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Thanks Cathy and WV!

I've accidentally damaged one of my own so I've been putting them behind glass ever since.

It's a good point about the glass cleaner, or even a duster. I would worry that a client might damage it without realizing what they were doing.

I was concerned that I'm just to much of a worry wart! ;)

PatrickHedges 10-21-2009 01:41 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Maybe I don't worry enough. After all, I spend ages scratching my work :lol:

Trilby 10-21-2009 02:12 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I do sometimes frame my work without glass, but I worry. I usually do use glass, ever since I watched a little boy with a pen knife try his hand at scratchboard art on a friend's piece in a show. Unfortunately No one was near enough to stop him. She was able to repair it, but also began using glass. You can use a float method even behind glass. I can't afford museum glass, but have found that the reflection control glass is almost as "invisible" and much less expensive than full museum glass.RC or AR (anti reflection) is not the same as anti glare, It's in the same family as museum glass. I frame both with and without mats depending on the piece and the frame.

Cathy, I have shipped a few pastels with glass. I cris cross masking tape over the glass and onto the frame. I also put a sticky paper over the whole piece of glass on top of the masking tape, put protective corners on the frame and bubble wrap the heck out of the whole thing and put it in a box further cushioned with peanuts or foam. So far no broken glass or damaged frame or art.
TJ

lorna12 10-21-2009 03:54 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I never use glass and I've never had a piece damaged while hanging elsewhere or in shipping. I ship my work to galleries and shows all over including as far away as the Indy show earlier this year. I even ship in province by Greyhound. I don't know if I've just been darned lucky or what, but I find that several coats of Kamar or Matt spray varnish is enough.

Don't get me wrong...I still worry but I don't put my acrylic paintings under glass either...I don't do oils but know most people varnish and frame without glass, as well... scratches on or through one of those would be just as damaging not to mention devastating. If damage is going to happen it's going to happen and there's not much one can do about it, except the obvious...protect it the best you can when you have to move it...get it in writing that the place you hang your work in will be responsible ($$) if damage is done(I mean other than galleries because most of them do anyway)...or like I do, have a good insurance policy that covers your work when it is moving or hanging somewhere other than your home. Nothing is going to take away the heartbreak when a piece you've spend so much time on gets damaged but $$ helps a bit.:wink2: :D

This is one of my favorite frames with a linen liner...I often go a bit narrower but not wider for both. The piece is 16X20 (or 18X24 I forget)

Crias 10-21-2009 12:27 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
well my plans to take nice pics of my framed pieces this morning were a bit thwarted by um... snow, but still took some on my porch with higher ISO, so a bit grainy, but you get the idea. In normal lighting conditions the museum glass is pretty non-reflective, but withthe snow behind me you can see some minor glare from the bright white of it.

I was told by my framing guru that you never want the linen liner and frame to be the same width so since this is a thinner frame, I went with a thin linen liner.


I went with a dark brown frame, linen liner and fillet here


Dark greyish black frame, linen liner and fillet


I think they look pretty sharp- hopefully my gallery owner will agree :)

sandrawillard 10-21-2009 03:11 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Very wonderful examples! Thank you so much for sharing!!!

Cathy, is the glass directly against the scratchboard?

Crias 10-21-2009 03:25 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
no its over the linen liner

lorna12 10-21-2009 03:29 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Cathy... These look really nice...just curious but why choose colored frames for B&W work? I sometimes use a fillet in mine, too...they can really set it off nicely. I sure like the fillet in the 2nd picture. BTW...I think all framers should go to the same school and hand out the same advice...mine said that equality is perfectly acceptable. :D Personally, I think it depends on the piece and is a matter of personal tastes and I prefer black frames.
I like the wider frame/liner on my medium sized pieces(some 8X10 - 16X20) but go for a narrower one on my 18X24 and 3'X2' work. (the zebras are 16X20, I checked:wink2: )
3'X2' with a plain black fillet w/ a soft white liner.


and smaller pieces (5X7 amd some 8X10s) gold fillet w/ white liner

PatrickHedges 10-21-2009 07:52 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Ah, so Lorna, you frame without glass but behind the mount not in front? Both yours and Cathy's look very cool. As to a colour frame, I've sometimes found that they work, but most of mine are black frames too.

lorna12 10-21-2009 08:16 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
That's right Patrick...the scratchboard is set 'in' the liner from behind...I believe Cathy's are the same but with the glass over the liner. I had a tiger piece I colored and I used a brownish frame for it.

BTW, Cathy...I meant to mention before...I clean my pieces with soap and water OR glass cleaner when they get fingerprints or smudges and wipe with a soft cloth and haven't had any problems with any kind of spotting or residue. As long as the varnish has cured I believe it can stand up to anything except a gouge, deliberate or accidental.

Crias 10-21-2009 08:18 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I'm at the experimental stage of framing... lol... I have almost always use black frames in the past and have been told by several framers now that they prefer some color... lol... I guess to each their own! I am just trying out different things to see what I like, my gallery owners like and the framers like!

lorna12 10-21-2009 08:40 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
hehehe...been there done that...I used to listen to the framers like they were god...then you go to a different one and they tell you something different, and a 3rd will tell you something else again. I got to the point where I please myself and I haven't had a gallery or show, turn down a piece because of the frame. The place that just accepted my 2 pieces has in their rules, that they will not hang a piece if framing doesn't meet their standards...this show is in a gallery.

Bonniecat 10-21-2009 11:50 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Thank you Sandra, for starting this thread. It is so helpful for someone like me who has only been doing scratch art for about a year to read what the experts in the field do.
Bonnie

objectivistartist 10-22-2009 12:33 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Is always good to know about things like this because, at least for some of us, it is a big [read BIG] investment when having to deal with the likes of glass and so forth, not just initially but in the much added cost of transporting the work...

sandrawillard 10-22-2009 02:40 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I totally agree with you Bonnie. This is so helpful to me as well.

I think that what Robert said is what prompted me to ask. Framing can be very expensive (even when I do it myself) and it can sometimes beautifully showcase a piece or take away from it. That's why I want to make the best choices I can for my clients.

I've been float mounting under glass. I usually choose either a brushed silver or a black frame with black/black core matting.

I've tried museum glass. Costly and difficult to keep clean without damaging it but otherwise it's like it's not even there which is a big plus. I typically choose non-glare glass but never on my colored pieces since (I personally feel) that it mutes the color quality a bit. However regular glass on a black mat is so reflective.

I've just started colored ink on white claybord and that seems to be a lot more durable than the black scratchboard. I was thinking about framing those pieces without glass but then having some with and others without when I exhibit doesn't look consistent and I worry that it will distract from the art.

PaintDog 06-05-2011 12:47 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
1 Attachment(s)
A framing discussion sprang up in the Scratchy Corner for this week. I thought I'd post one of the pieces I framed.

It's a 4" x 4" white Claybord. I attached the board to a black mat (known as a "float" mount). Then I cut a white mat (with black core) to leave an opening around the board that's about 1/4" on all sides. I put a piece of foam core under the white mat for spacing. The frame size is 8" x 8".

The frame is a metal Nielsen #11 profile in matte black. I used a UV filtering glass, but it's not museum glass.

I cut my own mats with a Logan 750 Simplex Plus. I buy my glass, frames & mats from a local mat & moulding company. The frames come in sections and I assemble them.

annamelia 06-05-2011 04:18 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I frame behind glass as I don't want to risk having the work damaged and I do have the scratchboard placed on top of the mat. I have found since I've started entering a few shows that the foamboard backing is damaged enough with dents and other marks without having the scratchboard marked.

I recently had "Nature Study" framed which I love, although not under non-reflective glass as you can see and this is the most expensive framing I've ever had done.


kenmacf 06-05-2011 10:55 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I have not been framing with glass but.... at my last show I looked up to see an adult dragging her thumb, nail down, across the top edge. When I asked her not to do that she said she always like to touch. I said that she must get kicked out of a lot of museums and she just grinned. I asked her why, when she runs the risk of ruining the piece and she said she just feels like she has to. When I asked her to leave, she said I was insulting. Oh boy.
Now I am considering how to re-frame everything with glass. This thread was timely.
As it is, I have been gluing the work to foam core and that to linen boards with E6000 glue and it has been holding very well. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks

PatrickHedges 06-05-2011 10:52 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I must admit that I still frame without glass. I know that the risk of damaged is increased but I keep away from glass for two reasons
a) I've made sales specifically because people liked the framing and that tipped their choice my way compared to other pieces in the show and;
b) It's so much easier and cheaper to send a framed piece through the post, especially overseas.

Also, most oil paintings are framed without glass and they are just as easily damaged. Maybe the damage might be less visible on an oil painting but given the advantages, I'm almost certain I'll stick without the glass.

I do understand people's trepidation though.

PaintDog 06-05-2011 10:59 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Good point about oils being framed without glass, Patrick. I would think a well-varnished board is every bit as protected as an oil painting.

But when I read about things like the woman dragging her nail across Ken's work, it gives me shivers! What nerve! And then for her to be upset when Ken told her to leave. Some people . . .

I do have a couple of 4 x 4 boards hanging at our co-op gallery that are unframed, unmounted (but definitely sealed!). I put a hanger on the back of the board and put it on the wall. These are small enough, they could also go on an easel just as easily. It saved me the time & expense of framing and I can offer the pieces at a lower price.

lorna12 06-06-2011 01:32 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I agree with Patrick...the things I've seen framed with glass are watercolors and graphite pieces...oh and colored pencil pieces. Not oils or acrylics and look at the big pieces in those mediums nowadays that don't even have frames...they're gallery wrapped canvases. The woman Ken mentioned didn't have the brains god gave her if she felt she could just going along touching any art she wanted...and with her nail, yet!!! She should have been booted out of the show, as far as I'm concerned. She certainly wouldn't have done that in a musuem and been allowed to stay! Shame on her...don't know that I would have been as polite as Ken.

In our artisan store, I have a small board on a table that has been sprayed with several coats of sealer. I have a magnifying glass beside it and anyone can pick up that piece to examine it and see how it's done, just to satisfy their curiousity. The piece is a 5X7 unframed. It still does not have any new scratches on it's surface and it's been there since last September. I do have to wipe off fingerprints, though. :D

To use glass or not is a personal choice...I'm just saying I don't believe it is a necessary choice, especially when you consider the cost.

PatrickHedges 06-06-2011 02:02 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
It's such an interesting and teaching topic. I can totally understand Cathy wanting to frame her large pieces behind glass. Large pieces are much harder to spray without having problems so glass saves putting too many coats on and risking bubbles and spatter. The largest piece I've done is 20x16 and that is behind glass as it only has two coats on it. So some of Cathy's (and others) 24x36 pieces make a lot of sense behind glass.

PatrickHedges 06-06-2011 02:03 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Oh and Ken, you should have pocked and prodded her with your fingernails, or an xacto :lol:

lorna12 06-06-2011 02:15 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
My 24X36 A Big Thirst is not behind glass and I shipped it to a show by Greyhound (about 800km) and back without a mark on it. I pack well and they follow my instructions for shipping back. I'd be much more afraid of using glass and having it break through rough handling of the box.

PatrickHedges 06-06-2011 03:02 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Good point - I guess that's where those 'strong boxes' come in but they're expensive.

That's such a good piece, The Big Thirst, the original photographer must be a marvelous man :lol:

lorna12 06-06-2011 05:09 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
The very best!:D

Actually I just use ordinary cardboard boxes...sometimes I have to make them fit a piece. I place an extra sheet of cardboard over the face of the piece with a narrow wrap that's like Saran wrap and I pack foam pieces on all sides to take up any extra space. The foam I sometimes use is the stuff you get for insulating pipes...cut to size, the slit usually fits right on the frame...reasonably cheap at the hardware store. Keeps the frame from getting dinged and keeps the piece from moving back and forth. I get the wrap at the hardware store, too.

Crias 06-06-2011 12:57 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions and I am happy that many of you have not had bad experiences with your work without glass. Here are some of the reasons I started to protect my work with glass:

I have had two experiences with works that were NOT behind glass (this was before I was using glass on all works) from big international exhibitions:

Birds in Art the lady came and talked to me at the event and told me point blank that they wanted to send my piece on the national tour, but had decided not to because it was not behind glass and they wouldn't take the risk of scratching it. I tried to assure her that it was ok with several coats of varnish, but she told me that they hoped my future works would be behind glass so that they could be considered.

Also a piece for SAA, the snow leopard that did so well. It had already gone to three museums, but the last stop on the tour said they would not display it without me paying for it be taken apart and put behind either glass or plexi.

My first year at the Greeley stampede I had works, some quite large, that were framed and matted, but not behind glass. Several people, including framers asked why. They all went on to tell me that 1) the glass protects the matting from getting dirty and 2) that mat board needs the glass to support it and that I would soon see buckling in the mat board from the weight of the scratchboard on it. They were right on both counts. Several works came home with dirty smudges on the matting and I also soon saw some of the matting start to warp. An outdoor art fair with some humidity soon saw all the others (including some smaller pieces) warping too. One the mat board buckles you pretty much will have to re-mat it, as they won't dry flat! So if no glass you could use linen liners (wood coated with linen) or just a frame, but you can't use mat board by itself in the long run as it just isn't designed to stand up without the support of glass.

Anyways I will try and take some pics of my works as I am framing them now. You can see some at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Furthu...52.89382328470 from last fall art walk in the frame shop. Both mtn lions, kingfisher, owl, amur leopard are all done in the style that I am using now. Some of the others were older works.

lorna12 06-06-2011 03:00 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Those are very excellent reasons for you to USE glass Cathy. If a gallery or show told me to use glass, I'd do it, too. And I do like the look of your works framed, they are beautiful...but when it comes to your work, who looks at the frame! :wink2: :D

The reasons you stated for using glass with mats are valid and is the main reason I didn't go with mats to start with, using the linen on wood liners.

I wasn't trying to change any minds, either ...just putting the information out there, that there are options for the folks who are still trying to figure it all out.

brushandknife 01-31-2012 03:43 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
This has been a very interesting thread. What has been the decision about "glass/no glass" for the new society shows? I'm also leery of putting glass over, it's so heavy on the larger ones, plus so costly. The only gallery I had any experience with had never had scratchart before, not sure they'd even seen it? Don't know. But they never mentioned glassing them.

artofnature 01-31-2012 07:53 PM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Interesting to see all the the different methods here. I don't frame under glass as I can't afford museum glass. And the only one I did frame under glass did not draw any attention or sale at the gallery. I had it framed under non-reflective glass at first but had to have it removed and changed to normal glass as it looked terrible and make everything look grey.

I don't post any of my work. It is all transported by me so I could glass it but I really like the look without it.

Here is one that I had done recently. it has 2 frames (one inside the other). Sorry about the picture quality and the bowing of the frame but I don't have Photoshop or the skills to make it straight.


lorna12 02-01-2012 12:28 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Carol...framing with or without glass is entirely up to the individual artist for the show. The only stipulation is that it be properly framed, looks suitable for a gallery and has a snug/tight wire for hanging. The wire should be no more than 1/3 of the way down from the top of the frame on the piece...the reason for it being snug/tight is so that it will lay flat against the wall.

Everyone's frames in this thread are suitable

Foxyheart2002 02-01-2012 01:07 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
I have a question for those who jury shows......

Does the frame make any difference when jurying the art? I mean, do you see a piece and think, now that would have looked better matted under glass, etc.? Or can you totally discount the frame whether it be an ornate one (clearly expensive), or a plain frame which could or could not be costly.....? Be honest.

PaintDog 02-01-2012 02:54 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Lesley - I like the way your ocelot is framed. Is that inner frame a gold metallic or ??

Sue, when jurying art for shows, if it's entry via digital submission or printed photo/slide, the general rule is that the judge(s) don't want to see anything but the art. Nothing that detracts from the art being judged, so it shouldn't be seen - not the frame (or even the mat), not an easel or your wallpaper behind or the chair it's sitting on when it was photographed. That's the first step for getting a piece of art into a show.

But then, once art is AT a show and it's time to award ribbons, I think that the framing may have an impact. I guess it depends on the judges and their level of expertise and ability to judge fairly. And shows usually reserve the right to reject accepted entries if they're not framed properly - I suppose that's a judgement call too . . . what constitutes "proper"?

I know when I'm at art shows, just as a viewer, I'm always critiquing framing. My personal preference leans toward simple and clean - let the art speak for itself!

artofnature 02-01-2012 03:06 AM

Re: Framing Scratchboard/Claybord
 
Ann. The innder frame on mine is a champange colour and it is a little distressed. It's about 1 cm wide. The painting is 11 x 14.


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