Done with the Mexican Prismacolors

[George924]

I love my Prisma's that I stocked up on but the POC product that they are making in Mexico is junk:mad:...I was trying to figure it out and after some heated debates with the Newell Rubermaid Office Products...800-323-0749 I finally got my answers...they have drastically went to crap...wood breaks constantly, color is offset in the wooden case, probably why it breaks constantly. The formula changed on the CP and reacts totally different with my older stock...I will use up what I have and curse every breath of it. Dang it though I love my Prisma's off to the FC Polychromos:clap: :clap: :clap: ...

[evartpat]

When did they start making them in Mexico?

I have some I bought about 6 months ago and they seem fine. Is this a real recent thing? :confused:

[thearne]

I noticed that on my tin of prismas. I recently switched to derwent graphite from prisma graphite because of quality issues except the 5H. If you find a comparable brand that you'd recommend as a replacement, please post it.

[George924]

Not sure when but on my bar code that they insisted putting on each and every pencil is stamped MEX...any way I just received this order of indigo blue, tuscan, and the peach colors I use...I'll have to wait and see but five out of five pencils were breaking at the wood and 4 of them I used were off center... Highly disappointed...

[bedazzledx2]

That's not good news George. Have they changed the appearance at all? IOW is there any way you can tell the newer ones just by looking? I'm not sure which ones we are getting in Australia but I have noticed some splitting on the wood casing in some of the open stock which makes sharpening an absolute pain! Any thoughts on the Dick Blick pencil?
Deb

Just saw your reply...we must have been posting at the same time! Have checked mine and no Mex on the bar codes. Will look out for that thanks George.

[pezk]

george, you are so right. this new set of prismas that I bought were made in mexico. The pencils are terrible. They look and feel like FCs but they break so easily. I was never a fan of the old prismas but the new ones are so much worst.

[RobinZ]

Please let them know! They have been pretty good at responding to complaints in the past.

I buy all open stock and I bought a ton of them a month ago and used them with no problems. I don't see MEX stamped on them, though.

[George924]

the look is a bit different, some of the indicator colors I had to look twice at...I have talked to them and they say it is not an issue and there are sometimes a flaws...I am sending them some of the problems and detailing the reasons. I'll let you know what they say about it...I really don't want to switch, I have way to much stock to go through...I'll probably stick with them as long as I can but it's just not the lead breaking that's an issue now...WHAT TO DO? not all of them have the MEX on them they're mixed...throughout my order...I'm calling Dick Blick tomorrow and see what they can do. I buy most of my years supply at the beginning of the year and my budget for CP is pretty much spent...if the whole order is like this I would estimate running low about late July...Just in time for the Christmas Blitz...I really hope that what they told me is true, that sometimes flaws happen

[Mettaphorica]

Deb
I have two sets of Prismas; one a small 12 colour that I keep at work, and the other, a 132 set for home. I have hated Prismas fairly soon after I got them, even though I did a pencil test against Derwent and FC before I bought a set. Perhaps I was lucky and just got a good pencil.

Looking at my work tin (I'm at work right now, about to finish), it says made in Mexico. There is no barcode on individual pencils. I will check the home tin, but I have had some problems with splitting, but mostly breaking very easily, despite care with sharpening.

I got mine from The Art Shop in Melbourne, in FTG. They are a great, friendly store.
Hope this helps
Donna

[PlaysWithPencils]

I have had my set for over a year now, I put them away then got into cp.
Half were mexico half were not. They are lower quality since moving to Mexico. What a shame they took the work from the US citizens, that alone makes me grrr. They should change Prisma to a Mexico company not a US pencil.
I don't plan on them being my main pencil when this set is gone.

[afkar]

I have also had great service from The Art Shop & was surprised I wasn't more impressed by the Prisma apart from a couple of colours. Luckily I only bought a couple so may just get the odd colour that I haven't seen elsewhere. At the moment I am getting a few pencils of different brands to see what I like most. Am not overly impressed by Derwent so am looking elsewhere. Thank goodness for open stock!

[jcpope]

If you're having troubles with your Prismas, try the Dick Blick brand. I, too, found that some of the color formulas had changed, the pigments were scratchy and whether using a powered sharpener or a manual on, the pencils were breaking. I even have some where I can pull the complete core out. I superglued them at the top, but that only last for a while. Poor quality all around. I have Derwent Coloursofts too and I like them as well. But the Dick Blick brand is soft and blendable like the Prismacolors. Good colors as well, some of which are not available in the Prismas. I also have a set of the Jerry's Soho. Some folks like them, but I probably will only use them for work in a sketchbook. They are harder than the Prismas and sometimes the colors don't work well on colored paper.

[dougmccallum]

I only use a few Prismas and only buy them open stock locally so I can check each one. Frequently they aren't straight and cores aren't centered. I much prefer my Polychromos and Lyra Polycolor. They are harder than Prisma but have good color and layer well. Other brands that are good (if you aren't in the USA where they aren't sold) Bruynzeel Design Colour and Talens Van Gogh.
Van Gogh doesn't do open stock.

Everyone has their favorites. With the problems Prisma is having, you would think one of the others would try to take advantage of that.

Doug

[TheEYE]

They started manufacturing Prismas in Mexico a few years ago now. They just changed their manufacturing process in the past few months though, I noticed this last week when I went to get some open stock. The barrels are completely different from the previous Mexico stock I got just last month. I have been seeing the lead offset issue as well, and there are lots of warping issues as well lately.
I find that I have to pick and choose through the available openstock to find decent pencils, and that at least 75% of the pencils I look at arent up to what I have come to expect as Prisma standards.
I am really hoping they smarten up, I'd hate to have to change brands with the significant investment I have made on Prisma stock.

[George924]

I Love Prisma's and I will probably stick with them but the polychromos are eventually going to take over my stock...I received this e-mail from Sanford:

Hello Mr. Minor,

Thank you very much for reaching out to us about our Prismacolor® Thick Lead Art Pencil. It causes us great concern to learn of your experience with our product and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

As stated on the back of product packaging, Sanford guarantees complete customer satisfaction and replacement. Anytime you are disappointed with a new Sanford product drop it in the mail in a padded envelope with a brief description of your experience. If you do not have the product or prefer a refund, you may send in a receipt or the packaging as proof of purchase. We would also be happy to reimburse your postage, simply request this in your correspondence.

Please mail your product to:
Sanford Brands
Attn: Consumer Affairs
2707 Butterfield Rd.
Oak Brook, IL 60523-1278

We appreciate your taking time to return the product to Sanford for it will be inspected by our Quality Assurance Department. This feedback helps us identify quality issues and areas for improvement; without invaluable feedback from consumers like you this would not be possible. We appreciate your partnership in improving our products and ensuring that any future purchase of Sanford product will be of the quality that you have come to expect.

Sanford has been making and selling high quality ink products since 1857 and pride ourselves on the brands we manufacture. Thank you contacting us and your continued support of Sanford products.

Brad Kelly
Sanford Consumer Affairs

I will be sending them a detailed compliant with my concerns and hope they will understand product quality is everything...

also, I will be reading all of your concerns as well and relating them to the company...I would say if they get enough complaints they may get back to the quality we all know and love about Prisma.

[evartpat]

I checked all my pencils and none say Mexico which probably explains my lack of issues.

I am glad they responded to you. I was getting ready to place a big pencil order now....and then I read this...:eek:

Unlike many here...I LOVE my prismacolors and they work well for me. The thought of having to change over to something else is disheartening...:(

[Candle]

This greatly distresses me, since I love my prismas! Everything else I've tried feels dry and scratchy in comparison. I have no experience with the prismas made in Mexico, I guess mine are a little older stock. I really hope they fix whatever is going wrong with the manufacturing. Thanks for the heads up.

[George924]

What I am hoping is that they have already seen this flaw and are trying to dump off the bad quality batch...I will stick with them. But Sanford is on a very fine line...I have an investment of stock that is still great it is just the order I just purchased. Not all of them have the MEX on them but the warping and breakage seems to a bit higher.

My overall stock of color pencils is right at 3240 pencils not counting the sharpened ones ...I just bought 720 this past order...I will keep them separate and take note of them and at the end of the year I will box them up and send them back for reimbursement.

So they are on a fine line...and the Polychromos may be in my sights

[pezk]

Does polychromos have better quality control? What about Lyras?

[PlaysWithPencils]

Good Luck to you George, with that purchase I am sure they better take care of you.
I do like my Prismas I have now, old ones, and no breakage that is bad enough to remember.

[johanneL]

thanks George for posting this information.

I recently started purchasing FC polychromos because they are available in open stock at my local art store. I must say that I enjoy the feel of them, the quality of their pencils, the vibrancy of their colors....BUT.....they are pricey and I have a soft spot for primas! probably because they were my first cp set and I gotta say I enjoy the choice of colors!

too funny about the choice of colors because I keep using the same ones over and over : )

anyway, as for recent purchases of prismas, I haven't encountered pencils with off centered leads but they break so easily....it's very frustrating.

I really thought that with their recent additions of colors, for a total of 150, that they would have taken care of the quality issue.

[afkar]

It's good to know that they are ready to provide good customer service. Let's hope they do take notice & fix the problems soon

[sati]

I hate to get political here, but do these companies not understand that many of us care about "Made in America"? We also care about quality. Did the Prisma people just become so sure of their #1 position in the CP market that quality ceased to matter to them? I'm sure they pay less for the product when they manufacture in Mexico, but they are going to lose that all-important market share. I have been frustrated with the pencils I bought during the past year. I have wasted more of some of these pencils in the sharpener than I have used. Yes, the microwave sometimes helps, but I get irritated by the need for it. I will continue to use Prismas, but will start shifting my loyalty elsewhere. They need to know that they have to earn our business.

[George924]

sati, you are dead on...this is one reason I am thinking heavily on FC polychromos, they are much higher in cost but have the quality I strive to maintain...it's just not about breakage when sharpening, it is the pore quality of wood casing it is even breaking now, the warped pencils, the change in the color on the casing, the different feel of the color, offset of color...MY question now is..If the quality in all of the other factors are dropping...How is the colorfast quality?

[Paris Girl]

George924, I too had that question in mind. My Dad bought me a 132 Prismacolor set as a birthday present last year. I just started on them recently. Mine don't have the MEX branding on them. And the only color I've been having breakage problems with is the Orange.

I'm actually really upset to get wind of this problem cause' I actually really enjoy using Prismas. Need to go to my local Art store to the open selection to see if they have the MEX branding on them. And if they do, I guess I'll need to hunt for a new brand. :(

It's sad that the quality is so bad, that Prismacolor is loosing customers as a result of frustration with their brand... Although I don't understand why they would rather loose their reputation than save a couple of dollars...

Oh. And Pat, (evartpat) I'm really sorry to hear about your bad experience. And until, if ever, the problem is resolved, I hope you find another brand that you enjoy using. Don't let this horrible experience get in the way of your passion for Art.

[George924]

I'm thinking that this problem has already been solved and they decided to put the less quality product out there to see if they could get rid of the problem...I have seen this happen first hand in some of the industries I've worked in...If nobody said anything we went on with the quality product, if we were called on it we would replace it. I truly hope that is the case, I have been using prisma's for over 30 years and truly love them...I wish Berol was still in the picture...anytime I see them on eBay for a decent price I snatch them up and I am always on the hunt for Berol Prismacolor Pencils...the lead was bigger the breakage was at a minimum...You can tell you this, I will be on the phone and writing to them at every chance I get to rectify this...

[evartpat]

Ahhh..I have a some Berol ones left...and you can't have them!! :D

Believe it or not...I found about five that are Eagle!!. Now that is going waaaay back!

[George924]

I have not seen them in a very long time...I may have a couple but not sure where they would be...When quality still rang true!!!

[Mettaphorica]

well, after my post yesterday, I went home to find an order I had of a couple of open stock pencils had arrived; and they had the barcode on them like George said. So the alleged crappy stuff is here and alive in Melbourne, Australia.

Donna

[ArtbyPeggy]

I checked my 120 and they are made in the USA. My first box of 24 is made in Mexico but doesn't have the MEX on it.
Sorry to hear of your experience George and now I understand what Donna has been writing about with the breakage ect... even though I wasn't experiencing that.

Peggy

[Hoplite]

sati, you are dead on...this is one reason I am thinking heavily on FC polychromos, they are much higher in cost but have the quality I strive to maintain...it's just not about breakage when sharpening, it is the pore quality of wood casing it is even breaking now, the warped pencils, the change in the color on the casing, the different feel of the color, offset of color...MY question now is..If the quality in all of the other factors are dropping...How is the colorfast quality?

If you dig around on their website, you can find a chart. On the ASTM 6901 scale, where 1 is the best, 2 is termed as archival under museum conditions (basically, a fine artist should not be using anything less than this), and descending on down from 3 to 5. 52 are rated 1 (the bulk being earth tones and grays), 22 are rated 2, 24 are rated 3, 11 are rated 4, and 23 are rated 5. Finding half my pencils (and virtually all my blues) of an unacceptable (to me) rating, I simply switched over to Polychromos, which have considerably better quality control in addition to a much broader range of pencils of acceptable lightfastness. However, they do handle differently - if you are addicted to the smooth creamy texture of Prismas, you might prefer another wax-based pencil rather than an oil based one, or simply supplement with specific colors.

[CMark]

Hello everyone.
I have my pencils in front of me to verify some facts.
One Sanford Prismacolor White, no mentioning of where it is made. The core is off-center but still quite good pencil with no breakage. It is not as white (i.e. I think it is less pigmented) as a Karismacolor White.
Four Karismacolor Graphite pencils Made in Mexico by Berol. Very well made but still one notch below a Karismacolor Made in USA by Berol.
144 Karismacolor Color Pencils. All Made in USA by Berol. Outstanding and quite expensive. Bought many years back. These are European equivalent of Prismacolor pencils. Approximately one third to half of the totality are not lightfast enough for display and it also says “Designer’s Pencil” on the brochure.

Faber Castell Polychromos belong to another league of pencils and cannot replace Prismacolors (PChromos are outstanding on their own). They are excellent for drawing and the final work looks like a drawing.
The layering characteristic of Prismacolor is unique and this is what gives the finished work a realistic painterly effect. Other pencils will give other kinds of finish.
The closest pencil, in terms of layering characteristic, to Prismacolor is Caran d’Ache wax based Luminance. They are very expensive and have a very limited palette. They are soft but not as buttery as Prisma. But definitely more lightfast.
Derwent Coloursoft is not an exact contender to replace Prismacolor. It is way too dusty and gives you this amateurish feel.
The bad news is each type of color pencils will allow some specific technique. So, if someone is used to only one specific technique (for example a painterly technique), he will have to stick to that particular pencil.

[douglass]

I find this very sad because I love Prismas, and am about to get some more when my nephew travels to the US.
I hope that they do manage to do something about the quality of their pencils now they are manufactured in Mexico.
Hopefully, they can sort it out!
thanks for the effort and feedback you have put into this issue!
Lynette

[George924]

If you dig around on their website, you can find a chart. On the ASTM 6901 scale, where 1 is the best, 2 is termed as archival under museum conditions (basically, a fine artist should not be using anything less than this), and descending on down from 3 to 5. 52 are rated 1 (the bulk being earth tones and grays), 22 are rated 2, 24 are rated 3, 11 are rated 4, and 23 are rated 5. Finding half my pencils (and virtually all my blues) of an unacceptable (to me) rating, I simply switched over to Polychromos, which have considerably better quality control in addition to a much broader range of pencils of acceptable lightfastness. However, they do handle differently - if you are addicted to the smooth creamy texture of Prismas, you might prefer another wax-based pencil rather than an oil based one, or simply supplement with specific colors.

Thanks for the info, but you clearly mistaken what I was getting at...I know what the rankings are suppose to be, what I asked is, if the company let the quality drop in all the other areas, did the quality in the colorfast area drop as well. In my 30 + years of using artist grade materials I take quality very serious...

Thanks Cmark, We like what we like, and to change product because of somebody trying to save money while taking ours, is downright wrong.
The bad news is each type of color pencils will allow some specific technique. So, if someone is used to only one specific technique (for example a painterly technique), he will have to stick to that particular pencil.
that's why we of love what we love, because it does what we are looking to produce. I have tried a lot of different products and really like most of them, but why should I have to change products because of somebody trying to make more money by downgrading a quality product?

about karismacolor...292495

[Hoplite]

Thanks for the info, but you clearly mistaken what I was getting at...I know what the rankings are suppose to be, what I asked is, if the company let the quality drop in all the other areas, did the quality in the colorfast area drop as well. In my 30 + years of using artist grade materials I take quality very serious...

I wasn't mistaken, I was just giving the state of where Prismacolor claims to be because that could be documented and is useful in itself to anyone considering Prismacolors. My understanding is that it is slightly improved because they incorporated a few colors from their defunct lightfast line, but it's not something I can document in any way.

[Hoofnpaw]

I purchase my Prismas from Dick Blick and my last batch (most from Mexico) was absolute junk. As previously mentioned, the wood splintered and broke, the cores fell out completely, and AT BEST, after breakage, I ended up with one half of a pencil to use.
I not only wrote to the manufacturer but I called Dick Blick who totally stood behind the product and replaced all my bad pencils. There were about 15 bad ones in a 25 pencil order. We will see if the next batch is any better.

Sean

[Mettaphorica]

Hi all
I'm an Australian and so have never heard of Karismacolors, until I got on this website a few months ago. My question is, with all the high praise, why the hell did they change?!!!

cheers
Donna

[CMark]

Hello Donna
Karismacolors were the European versions of Prismacolors. I wouldsay they were the luxury version because they had much better and prettierfinish and also were much more expensive (approx. twice the price of Prisma). Theyeven carried some delightful wood fragrance that never faded with time… I wastold that both pencils shared the same core. But on verification, I noticedKarisma cores were more pigmented and seldom broke. They were easily available in UK and Franceand sold at the same price as Caran D’ache pencils. They were created anddesigned with the artist in mind, maybe that’s why they met their demise (notenough margins). So, in contrast and according to recent multiple complaints,Prismacolors are now mass produced in Mexico (without the artist in mind). Basicallyyou are only buying the franchise name.
For serious newcomers, I would suggest to buy a few openstock from Faber Castell and Caran D’ache artist grade pencils. They areexpensive and with increasing confidence, one can invest gradually in these marvelouspencils. To save time and money it’s better to initially buy only the best.

[deapea]

I use to love Prismas. Things are tight, financially, & I get them open stock & inspect each one. That's why I have not tried the new colors. Michael's does not have them in open stock & i'm too terrified to order any because I cant inspect them.

I can't affort Caran dAches.

I use an Icarus Board & need wax based pencils for it. -But I never know what brands are oil & wax. Companies don't label the packaging properly.

I believe FC's are oil based. They are also vegan. I'm not vegan, but find that an interesting tidbit about those pencils.

[ToadSongs]

I wrote to Sanford about this very issue back in November and am keeping my unacceptable Prismacolors to maybe send back to them. I got the same e-mail as you George.

It seems like a pain to keep with Prismas. I used to defend them rabidly. It was a problem with how people were sharpening them. Not any more! My pencil sharpener works fine on any other pencils, or even my older Prismas.

I'm switching to Luminance. They are expensive, but Groupons, Dick Blick's free shipping day, etc will keep me in them. I think one tip broke off less than 1/8" one time on me. Prussian Blue and Sepia are my replacements for Indigo and Dark Umber; my two can't live without em Prismas.

People love that Tuscan Red but it isn't lightfast. Thankfully, all of the Luminance are. It stinks that not everyone can afford them, though. With all the Prismacolors that I have had break off on me, they can't be that much more expensive.

[George924]

I wrote to Sanford about this very issue back in November and am keeping my unacceptable Prismacolors to maybe send back to them. I got the same e-mail as you George.
This just tells me they know about the issue and have a form letter to send out to everybody who complains...I will be changing but I'll continue with what I have in stock and just start replacing as I go...

People love that Tuscan Red but it isn't lightfast.
No red pigment is truly colorfast, all red pigments are very bad for color loss...I was told one reason all the great masters works has kept the color was they was kept in the dark for the first few hundred years of their lives...Now they are kept in gallery lighting. But you have to love the Tuscan!!!

[dougmccallum]

Luminance are really nice and I've been told by a couple of local artists that, while expensive, have enough more pigment that you use less of them making the extra cost not that bad. I haven't personally verified it but have no reason to doubt the claim.

Doug

[deapea]

I received a sample red Luminance & although it was a different feel than my Prismas, I liked it. Even the tangible feel seemed nicer. But $$$$. Prisma is cheaper & moreconvenient since I don't shop online.

[George924]

I will purchase some of the Luminance with my next order to blick...come on March

[afkar]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I have managed to get some Brynzeel as open stock & have a few of the other recommended brands on the way to try. I think, as suggested, I will add better quality pencils as I can afford it - although my proposed Dick Blick order is getting larger & larger... just hope the postage to Australia isn't a real killer.

[dougmccallum]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I have managed to get some Brynzeel as open stock & have a few of the other recommended brands on the way to try. I think, as suggested, I will add better quality pencils as I can afford it - although my proposed Dick Blick order is getting larger & larger... just hope the postage to Australia isn't a real killer.
I wish the Bruynzeel were available in the USA. I love the set that I have but use them sparingly since shipping from Europe pushes the price way up. They don't have the range of colors of Prisma but they layer nicely and have a very nice feel. I always thought the could be a good replacement for Prisma if the company actually wanted to sell them.

Doug

[Mettaphorica]

Hi Afkar
My DB orders are pretty large, too. Given the Aussie $ and all that (plus we are creating employment in the US by spending) :), so look at that way, you're doing an altruisitic thing.

I worked out that for my FC PC's, alone, even if I bought nothing else and paid the $40 something postage, I was still saving $100 or maybe more compared to retail, here.
cheers

Donna

[deapea]

I feel blessed to be able to afford Prismas. Luminance pencils are approximately $4/pencil in open stock. I like the ones I have used, but not THAT much.

[LarryMarshall]

Is it ok to feel good that so many of you are unhappy with your Prismas? This xmas I bought a set for myself and one for my daughter. They're horrible, which surprised me after hearing so many good things about them. Ours not only break but the darn things are warped, possibly suffering from a previous life as pretzels.

Following WWII, US industry adopted the military ideal of 'zero defects'. They invested heavily in quality control, believing that bad products in the marketplace was bad for them. Many of those same companies have lost their way in that regard. It's not that these pencils are made in Mexico; it's that Sanford don't care enough about quality control to keep rejects from the market. I'll never buy another Sanford product again and THAT's the msg we consumers should send to them.

[ToadSongs]

Is it ok to feel good that so many of you are unhappy with your Prismas? This xmas I bought a set for myself and one for my daughter. They're horrible, which surprised me after hearing so many good things about them. Ours not only break but the darn things are warped, possibly suffering from a previous life as pretzels.

Following WWII, US industry adopted the military ideal of 'zero defects'. They invested heavily in quality control, believing that bad products in the marketplace was bad for them. Many of those same companies have lost their way in that regard. It's not that these pencils are made in Mexico; it's that Sanford don't care enough about quality control to keep rejects from the market. I'll never buy another Sanford product again and THAT's the msg we consumers should send to them.

I guess it's good in that it validates your experience, but it's bad in that things didn't used to be this way. I've been seriously using Prismas since 2002 and only in the last two years have things gone down the drain. I do love my Luminance but you bet I'd rather pay the lower prices for Prismas - if they were any good.

[salemskye]

I have been using my prismas today and 4 times the leads have snapped and I have had to re-sharpen. My pencils are not stamped Made in Indonesia, or Mexico for that matter. It's frustrating but they do work so very well at laying down colour and blending.

[Mettaphorica]

Hi Larry,

Yes it is ok to feel good about it. I think those who have not had issues sometimes wonder what the rest of us are on about, and I know for myself, sometimes I've wondered, "Is this just me? Am I doing something with them?"

Like you, as a newbie, I bought a large set. You know what? This was after purchasing samples of all 3 biggies: Coloursoft, Polychromos and Prismas. I played around with my samples, and liked the Prismas ,so bought a large set last October. Come real-world usage, though, and it was another story. Breakages constantly, despite careful sharpening, smooshing and crumbling too much into the paper (some colours worse than others) and, well, although they produced a nice finish, it was not as pleasant as I wanted it to be getting there. I decided I would just use them up, maybe keep a couple of the 'must have' colours, and forget the rest, and buy myself some PCs or Pablos (which I have done, but haven't used yet). I too also have about 4 or 5 Luminances, and yes, they're nice, but pricey.

So, you're not alone. I'm in Australia, btw, so the virus is here, too.

cheers
Donna

PS your pretzel analogy had me burst out laughing

Is it ok to feel good that so many of you are unhappy with your Prismas? This xmas I bought a set for myself and one for my daughter. They're horrible, which surprised me after hearing so many good things about them. Ours not only break but the darn things are warped, possibly suffering from a previous life as pretzels.

I'll never buy another Sanford product again and THAT's the msg we consumers should send to them.

[JPQ]

This just tells me they know about the issue and have a form letter to send out to everybody who complains...I will be changing but I'll continue with what I have in stock and just start replacing as I go...


No red pigment is truly colorfast, all red pigments are very bad for color loss...I was told one reason all the great masters works has kept the color was they was kept in the dark for the first few hundred years of their lives...Now they are kept in gallery lighting. But you have to love the Tuscan!!!

Even Cadmiums :) i know they not yet used coloured pencils...

[JPQ]

I received a sample red Luminance & although it was a different feel than my Prismas, I liked it. Even the tangible feel seemed nicer. But $$$$. Prisma is cheaper & moreconvenient since I don't shop online.

Its free sample ? and my free sample is blue. btw i dreaming fully set on luminance.(for example them). But depends how pricey they are now becouse at least supracolor ii and pablo which are now very privey. sometimes looks like it must limit itself for one single set. which one i dont know becouse all brands have good and bad points.

[deapea]

Its free sample ? and my free sample is blue. btw i dreaming fully set on luminance.(for example them). But depends how pricey they are now becouse at least supracolor ii and pablo which are now very privey. sometimes looks like it must limit itself for one single set. which one i dont know becouse all brands have good and bad points.

I got a few free samples of different products when I received my Icarus Board.

[rebeccarobbin]

Thanks for the info. I feel the same way, and I was wondering why the quality went bad. Hmm. Hope they can fix the problem

[George924]

Unless we as a whole stop buying than they will continue, I do plan on replacing with something better...

[campeche]

My overall stock of color pencils is right at 3240 pencils not counting the sharpened ones ...I just bought 720 this past order...

really? if you have that many in stock, why would you need more? wow! how many do you use on a piece?

[Lucio]

My Prismacolors with golden letters have a small stamp in the wood with the word USA almost an inch before the word Prismacolor.
My prismas with silver letters have the world Mexico stamped in the wood at half inch from the name Prismacolor.

I can't see any difference between them in terms of quality but I bought
them more than an year ago and living in Brazil and reading the bad reviews here in the Wetcanvas I doubt I will have the courage to buy them again :(

[George924]

really? if you have that many in stock, why would you need more? wow! how many do you use on a piece?

Depends on how much of the piece is dark, but the last piece that I did I used two full indigo's, two tuscans almost a always use about 3/4 of the peaches...on average I use right at 600 pencils a year give or take...my stock was a gradual build up...you can never be to ready...When I kept my stock at a minimum I was always worried about running out of a color and spared a lot of creativity that way...now with the build up I have now I do not worry I paint. You should see my collection of paper! don't stifle your creativity, stock up.

I truly hope that this is just a bad batch I have gotten, because I really love my prisma's.

[evartpat]

I am sure glad this thread happened when it did. I am holding off ordering and am going to try some others such as the Dick Blick brand.

I checked all my pencils...and sure enough they all say USA. I bought out all the stock from a small art aupply store going out of business some years ago...about 400 pencils..in all the colors I primarily use...a dozen to a box. Since I paint in watercolor as well, it has taken me until recently to finally start to run out of some pencils.

Funny thing, I did buy a couple of colorless blenders a few months back, and they are from Mexico. I remember noticing that they looked somewhat different than I remembered, but I have used them since and so far those seem to be OK.

What a hassle. I will send them an email as well. I am sure I will get the form letter response, but perhaps if enough people complain they will take notice...maybe...:rolleyes:

[flyred77]

I work with Darrel Tank at 5 Pencil Method and we all recently realized that the Prisma Graphites are no longer usable. For instant, a 4H can often produce the same results as a 4B pr a 2b acts as an HB. He did exhaustive testing on a lot of brands and believe it or not his new replacement recommendation was Dick Blick's private brand. He tested all the big brands!

[connorpastel]

Man, I am bumped at reading all of these; I was so keen on getting a big set of Prismas and now I am afraid that it would all be a waste.

Hopefully, a DB rep will come up soon and clear things up

[deapea]

I'm going to make a point to try & incorporate other wax based brands into my prismas...as I can afford them. I'm just still unsure what other brands (except Luminance) are wax based.

I have found that I have better success with my Prismas if I hand sharpen them.

[George924]

From what I am reading and others saying, Blicks CP are a great pencil...I'll probably check out their stock....

[Mettaphorica]

Hi all

I was at a photography class last night, but tomorrow is Saturday, so I will do the tests you'd like to see and post the results. I will cover the following:

-How they sharpen
-Layering
-Burnishing
- Mineral Spirits wash
-comparison of the white pencil (since the DB pencil was singled out as not as good)

If there is anything else you would like to see about the DB pencils, please let me know and I will include this.

I intend to make a comparison with Prismas. Once again, I have no emotional attachment to any pencil at this stage, as I've not worked with any brand long enough to fall in love, as it were. Therefore I think I am able to make a fairly objective and fair assessment of the pencils.

cheers
Donna

[afkar]

I will look forward to that as I am hovering on the edge of yet more CP buying!:lol:

[Blick Art Materials]

Hi all,
I was going to stay out of this until Connor mentioned us stepping in. The Blick Studio Artists Pencils, which I am sorry but I can't confirm or deny who makes them, were designed to be a direct competitor with the Prismacolors. Prior to Sanford/Prismacolor moving their manufacturing to Mexico, they were the benchmark to beat, as you all know. So they were the ones we were trying to emulate. They are a wax based pencil with a thin clay/ceramic casing around the lead which helps prevent internal breaking. As those who have tested or tried them have found out, they cover and blend very smoothly and work well with the Prismacolors and many of the other brands. The lightfastness chart, which I believe was posted earlier, can also be found on our website (I can't post a link, but if you can't find it PM us). I forget who mentioned the white colored pencil not being as heavily pigmented (I am sorry I forgot to write down your name) but I noticed the same thing when I first started using them. Personally, I still only use the Prismacolor White, I haven't found any other brand that will produce a bright white highlight like the Prismacolor can, and I have tried every pencil brand we carry.

I can tell you that Prismacolor/Sanford is well aware of all of the complaints, because not only do you, the customers call them, but we also have contact with them and as soon as this issue started arising we were on the phones with them. Our hope, like yours' is that they hear us and work on better quality control. Because, like all of you, I too am a die-hard Prisma fan who has had to start looking other places for suitable options.

If you do buy Prismacolor Pencils from us and they are not up to par, please contact our Customer Service Department and we will make things right. Otherwise, please know that your comments are not falling on deaf ears.

I look forward to continue reading your discussions and comparisons of the other brands, not just Blick's.

Audra

[ocmd123]

Thanks for jumping in, Audra! It's good to know they are at least hearing and aware of the complaints and quality issues. We can only hope that they care about more than just their bottom line.

[PlaysWithPencils]

I would love to see The Blick Studio Artists Pencils come out with more colors.
:clap:

[bluefish]

Donna........while you are doing your wonderful test for all of us( we are very grateful to you for doing this), I'm wondering if you have any 'Luminance" pencils to compare with the DB's?.......yes, they are expensive but are wax based and made with pigments that are lightfast......they are utilizing many of the newer pigments that have been developed in the past few years....'bismuths for example'......if I'm going to put all the effort into a CP drawing, I want it to last and not fade in a few years.....

looking forward to your test results......'blue...:wave:

[AdriaLT]

Have been reading this thread with interest also! I haven't bought any Prismas lastely and don't think I will till they fix this, if they can!!! Was at the Utrecht store here in KCMO to day and mentioned if they were having any troubles with Prismas coming back and told the clerk about the problems. She said that their house brand were made by Koh-i-Nor)sp?) and a local artist really preferred them now. Has any one tried them yet or at all? I might go back and get a few as they have open stock and see how they work. Just my 2 cents worth.
Adria

[Mettaphorica]

Hey all
sorry I got mixed up with my threads, although they are related. I meant to post my testing intentions for Dick Blick pencils on the thread I started, "Review, DB pencils, are they as good as Prismas?"
However, it might as well be put here too, I guess, since everyone is looking for alternatives. If you haven't already, check out that thread...looks like it's really on fire, and i am very glad I started it, now. (Don't you just love a cause?):lol:

PWP, I have about 4 Luminances, but you are right, they should be included. I am not sure I can do a fair comparision, because the colors are quite different to anything else to compare to. Still, I'll give it a go.

The only ones I don't have any of are the Lyra Polys, (but I've been warned off them, as too similar to Polychromos) and the Koh I Noor Polys which it is rumoured are the makers of the DB pencils.

I also got a handful of Caran D'ache Supracolors. They are watercolour pencil, but you know, I was quite taken with how soft and smooshy they are; though I don't know if they could be burnished. Could be worth including them in a test since I'm at it.
They are the most like the main 4 brand we use (Prismas, Polychromos, Colorsofts and Pablos, I'd say are the big 4).

Well, I've got a colouring day tomorrow. Will let you all know.
cheers
Donna

[Candle]

Just went through my Prismas and turns out that many I've been using were made in Mexico, I just hadn't noticed. I haven't had any problems with them, so hopefully that is a good sign...

[salemskye]

I spent a good 5 hours drawing yesterday with Prismas and I was continually fighting cores snapping. One pencils just wouldn't stay together. I love what Prismas can do but really, for my sanity, I think I am going to have to stop using them. That one pencil halved in size without me even using it.

[Robert Gaunce]

Can anyone tell me what they think about me buying some prismacolor color pencils...one of my close friend and art teacher is doing this picture of rooster on black paper, and it was so beautiful, i asked her what she was usinng...to me it looked like pastels, or oil paints....and she told me it was prismacolor color pencils...she told me she can show me how to do that..because if you see on my page..i mainly work in graphite..and im a 16 year old btw....i suppose i could be reffered to as an artist...but i really want to start doing color with my pictures and wildlife and what not...but all this hooplah about the pencils being made in Mex is scaring me, because they sound from reviews like crap since production moved to mexico...should i get some and play around with it or ....idk...anyone have any suggestions..im really new to this kinda stuff :)

[George924]

I would say buy them, they are not all bad quality, I just got a really bad batch. Prisma's do amazing things...been using them for over thirty years and will use them for years to come but I will start diversifying my stock...

[rain24]

Yes, I dug up this thread because I realized some Prismas made in Mexico finally made its way into my stock. No wonder I had such a hard time picking out good pencils out of open stock at my local art store the last time I went! Let's say a display has 15 or so pencils per color - I was lucky if I even found one that was good enough to bring home. There were so many warped ones with leads that were so off-center that it was laughable. That was extremely disappointing.

White is a staple though, so I had to get some of those. Only two pencils made the cut. And just for those that are curious, I took a comparison photo of the ones made in Mexico next to the ones made in the U.S. I did a little test swatch. There is a little more grit to the "new" ones but I guess it'll do for now since I'm in the middle of a project. I'd hate to run out of white again and have to search for good enough pencils again at the store.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2012/16245-Prismacolor_USvsMexico.jpg
On colored Canson Mi-Teintes

Note that the ones made in Mexico have a dark "box" around the pencil numbers. That's the easiest way to tell since their "Mexico" stamp is very, very faint on some of the other pencils. Sadly, I sharpened away most of the "USA" stamp before I took this comparison photo.

After this project I'm going to start heavily testing my FC Polychromos set that I've put to the side because I was using Prismas. To be fair, there has been no breakage thus far after sharpening this pencil a few times, but I did go through a lot of pencils just to find one decent one.

I don't know that I'll ever order Prismas online when I can't inspect them myself. This makes me so sad. My first set still says "Berol" on them and I still have a few pencils from that original set.

[RebeccaJFleming]

I have all the Prismacolor pencils but until now haven't really used any of them, so I'm really disappointed to hear about the problems everyone's having :( While doing colour swatches for another experiment today, I ended up just about ready to punt the whole tin through a window. Some of my pencils were okay, but a few are now half their original length, and a couple of them even broke so many times that there's only about an inch or two left of them :( I checked the barrels, and sure enough, all the ones that kept breaking were stamped with Mexico. None of my pencils are warped (however, I should note that the two blue stick thingies I got in the set are warped very badly) and the ones I examined all seemed to have straight cores within the barrels, but that didn't seem to help the leads stay in one piece. The only other possibility is that they were mishandled before or during postage, because I've done nothing but treat them with kid gloves since I got my hands on them.

I got my set of 132 off eBay a year or two ago, and for the last few months I've also been ordering the new/re-released 18 colours, so I now have all 150. I was curious to see how many of my set were made in Mexico, so I laid them all out and counted them:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2012/979335-PrismacolorSet.JPG
Of the 132 in the tin, 39 are made in Mexico. All of the extra ones I ordered are made in Mexico as well (my three colourless blenders are marked USA though).

I loved the creamy feel of the Prismacolors and how well they blended, but in light of their obviously non-existent quality control, I think I might just stick to my Polychromos and my little set of Luminance (I was lucky enough to get a set of 16 Luminance off eBay for about $25, otherwise I could never have been able to afford to try those wonderful pencils). I hope that one day they pick up their standards (and maybe do something about their lightfastness as well); if they do, I will consider buying them again, since I love soft pencils and large colour ranges. I know other pencils are more expensive, but it probably works out cheaper since you don't have to replace them all the time due to breakage.

[George924]

I have talked with them several times now and they say they are addressing the problem...My thoughts are they just have to get through the old crappy stock before releasing the higher quality we know. The cores themselves are still very well done and holds its integrity of color and light fastness. I use up way more pencil these days than I did before the move south...

[lizzydo]

I have used Prisma's for a very long time now and have a hard time giving them up - because of that buttery feel :) I read at one time how to bake them so the leads remelt and reform into more solid cores and have tried it a couple of times without having anymore trouble with the pencils - it was a while ago that I did this and so I did a search of that technique to share here and found this:
"I stopped having the problem of breakage after I placed them on a cookie sheet and placed them in the oven. You must put the pencils in a cool oven, then start heating it up to 200. Once it hits 200 degrees wait 30 minutes, then turn off the oven, but leave the pencils in there until the oven has cooled off to room temp. You will see a little wax sometimes on the outside of the pencil, but I never have problems of breakage." supplied by Rich Berry. As I remember this is about what I did earlier..... one note I would put parchment paper under the pencils so as not to ruin the cookie sheets :D

[faula]

as handy as that tip is, i don't think anyone should have to do that after spending so much on the pencils

[RebeccaJFleming]

I have talked with them several times now and they say they are addressing the problem...My thoughts are they just have to get through the old crappy stock before releasing the higher quality we know. The cores themselves are still very well done and holds its integrity of color and light fastness. I use up way more pencil these days than I did before the move south...
I wonder how much crappy stock there is :confused: From what I gather, these problems have been happening for quite a few years now, and surely they would have heard about it from angry customers pretty early on. Hopefully the day 'improved quality' stock starts cycling back in isn't too far away.

Most companies who are truly concerned about their reputation and about customer satisfaction choose to recall products that do not meet standards... I know this would be costly to the company but surely not as costly as losing their customers because unhappy artists start shopping elsewhere.

[George924]

See that is one of the problems...their quality stock was used up and the newer dis-improved stock moved in and we are now suffering the consequences of it...but they say they have heard us and working on fixing the problem. Lets hope so...I'm with faula, why should we have to do anything to fix the product we spent our hard earned money on...I certainly have NO problems using my FC polychromos...now that is a product. But I have used Prisma's for a long time...I believe they have heard us and will fix the problem and will stick with them but I do have other brands I use.

[clydeine]

I love the prismacolors and have some from Mexico. I have had a few breaks but not like some. I have been blaming that I occasionally drop a pencil since my art table is slanted. I have been breaking in the Faber-Castells though, but it is hard to beat the creaminess of those prismacolors.

[lizzydo]

...I'm with faula, why should we have to do anything to fix the product we spent our hard earned money on...

If you spent your hard earned money on pencils wouldn't you really like a method to continue using your expensive pencils instead of gnashing your teeth and grumbling to a company that may or may not respond?

[George924]

I continue using Prisma's...and I have tried the heating of the pencil...I live with the broken cores...actually that has been one of the biggest problems with Prisma's for a very long time...even before they moved south...I just buy more product. I really don't have a problem with the cores anyway, it's the warped pencils, the shattering casing, the cores that can be pulled out of the case, the off center core...the colors and the colorfastness is perfectly alright. Still yet I have no problems whatsoever with any other brand and its quality. So why in the world should we have to fix something that we have already paid money for.

[faula]

If you spent your hard earned money on pencils wouldn't you really like a method to continue using your expensive pencils instead of gnashing your teeth and grumbling to a company that may or may not respond?
like i said, its a handy tip but one that you shouldn't have to use. it has been years of people pointing out the problems, its not something that just happened so its not like they don't know about the problems, and to me it seems like bad costumer service. the company is more of an office supply company rather than an art one.

and they listen when people stop buying them, i never buy prismas anymore and tell other people not to as well. but really they don't care, its one person.

yes pencils break, but it was getting ridiculous how often and the un centered cores were starting to become a big issue.

and what about the people that can't use an oven? I know I can't, and i am not the only one. (safety issues with my MS)

the product was going downhill long before the switch to mexico and i don't see it changing but because they are the pencils that are mentioned the most, and the ones that all the "famous" coloured pencil artist suggest, so people will still buy them.

[lizzydo]

George and Faula, this is an argument that no one will win. Everyone has their own preference of colored pencils and will defend them vehemently. As I see it you have several options- 1. choose to work with another brand of pencils, 2. continue to use prisma's and complain about poor quality to all those who will listen, 3. try to correct an issue (breaking leads) with a friendly tip offered. I am not stating you have to do this with all your pencils - only the ones that give you issues. Your life - your choices! Faula, sorry to hear of your condition, as my husband also suffers from it, but with him you try to keep the stress out of your life - if prismas are just too stressful - move onto the other brands, Polychromes, Blick, Derwent, Caron D'Ache etc.

I should also point out that the tip should only be used with the wax based pencils

[faula]

yeah it is an argument that is pointless :p

i'm not stressed, they are only pencils ;) switched brands a long time ago, just using up old prisma stock at the same time

[George924]

lizzydo, most of the seasoned artists knew about that tip many years ago and it is good for new artists to know...I love the Prismacolor pencil...if we don't complain the quality will never return and people who are new to the medium will not learn of the quality until it is to late...who's arguing about the tip working or not we're just saying if we buy a product why should we have to fix it ourselves...and again, the cores are not the main problem it is the warped pencils, the shattering casing, the cores that can be pulled out of the case, the off center core

[Neverstsfyd]

lizzydo, most of the seasoned artists knew about that tip many years ago and it is good for new artists to know...I love the Prismacolor pencil...if we don't complain the quality will never return and people who are new to the medium will not learn of the quality until it is to late...who's arguing about the tip working or not we're just saying if we buy a product why should we have to fix it ourselves...and again, the cores are not the main problem it is the warped pencils, the shattering casing, the cores that can be pulled out of the case, the off center core

I am new to colored pencils and I invested in the Premiere 132 box. Every one of them is stamped MEXICO. I have been reading this thread and have had every problem you mentioned in this batch. I thought is was just me and my inexperience. When I sharpen them, the wood shatters as it gets caught at the glued up seams. It does not matter which sharpener I use.
My God Sanford, get a clue. As soon as these are used up, No more Mexican Prismas for me.

[kittymeow]

Hmmm... I have seen this thread pop up in the new posts from time to time but never felt the need to comment - however, I just wanted to share my personal experiences with these pencils...

I inadvertently bought some prismas stamped with MEX a while ago and they got mixed up with the rest of my collection. To be honest I am not able to tell the difference, and have not had any of the issues that people have been dealing with. I must confess that I have problems with breakages every now and then, but I have those with the ones stamped USA sometimes too...

I do carefully choose my pencils from open stock at my local Art Supply shop - making sure the lead is centered, etc., so perhaps that makes the difference?

I think it's bad that there seems to be a lack of quality control at the Prismacolor factory, but it's also a good thing to let them know that there's a problem so that they can address it and work at improving the quality of their product.

That's just my two cents anyway. Thanks for reading ;)

[moolane]

I purchase my colored pencils open stock from Jerry's Artarama and Dick Blick. Every Prismacolor that I have purchased within the past four months have been made in Mexico. The quality is drastically lower than it was in the past. Not only are the leads off-center and the wood brittle, but the leads have chalky spots in them!

Just this past weekend I went to a colored pencil workshop taught by Allan Servoss. He mainly uses Polychromos, so I decided to get some and give them a try. BIG difference....definitely better quality than Prisma!!

Due to lack of time I didn't read every post in this thread (sorry!). Has anyone suggested creating a petition to send to the makers of Prismacolors?

[basketmaker]

Well i actually have read this whole thread and agree with many of the opinions posted. I cannot afford the luminance but have completed my sets of the caran d'ache pablos and the faber castell polychromos. I had used several of these along with my prismas. I have seen lots of issues with my latest prismas and have not been happy. So i am switching for now and will be watching and waiting like everyone else.

[George924]

Due to lack of time I didn't read every post in this thread (sorry!). Has anyone suggested creating a petition to send to the makers of Prismacolors?

I have been in contact with them on many occasions and they assure me that they are working to fix these problems...My end of the year restocking is near and I am very concerned on placing a large order, it wouldn't hurt for a petition to be drafted and sent to the Sanford company.

[TessDB]

What would also be good is if folks let their retailers know why they aren't purchasing prismas. If big and small art supply stores hear enough complaints about a chunk of their inventory, the buyers/managers/owners will take note and (hopefully! :crossfingers) pass it along to Sanford. If enough retailers and artists are all howling at Sanford, maybe they'll do something about the quality of prismas. maybe. :cool:

Rosemary