PDA

View Full Version : Oil pastel info


Dima
03-30-2003, 11:51 AM
Hello oilpastelists on wetcanvas,

Recently I wanted to try out oilpastels and found that there is not much information on this medium or that it is at least hard to find.
On the other hand there seem to be a number of people in this forum doing oilpastels (the OPgang, Sundiver, Mikki, Mo and E-J spring to mind) and the last two weeks a number of newcomers like myself with a lot of questions.

I would like to start this thread to see where we will get if we put together, combine and systemize what we may know and can find on this medium.
And see if we can build some sort of knowledgebase or referencesystem for beginners and the more experienced alike.

Hope you think this to be a good idea and that many may contribute to it.

Dick.



For starters there are two sites on the web that are closely related.
The american and the international oilpastel organisations and the founder of both is John Elliot.
He seems to be the godfather, the expert and a long time advocate of oil pastels as a sreious medium in the fine arts.

http://johnelliot.com/index.htm


It looks as if this site is not allways very much up-to-date, but they do contain a lot information and links.
The FAQ is very informative and you can put your own questions.


Books:

The only one readily available is by (yes, again) John Elliot:
Oil Pastel for the Serious Beginner; Basic Lessons in Becoming a Good Painter.
See Amazon or Barnes and Noble.

Another appearently very good one is by Kenneth D. Leslie but that one is out of print and now a collectors item doing something like $200.

In the (classical) Walter Foster series you may find:
152 - Painting with oilpastel by H.P. McLaughlin or
159 - Stella Mackie paints heads in oilpastels.

The Pastel Journal features two oilpastelists in every edition.

As Sundiver and Jackie Simmonds pointed out somewhere in this forum Bill Creevy has a section on oilpastels in his Pastelbook.

Almost every artist handbook has a page or two on oilpastels all mentioning the possibility of scraffito techniques, blending with turps and using the waterressistant properties with watermedia.
Read one and you've read them all.

There are some demonstrations of the use of waxy crayons, oilpastels and the combination of both to found in a series: curso completo de dibujo y pintura by Parramon Ediciones. (tekenen en schilderen van Larousse in dutch)

Think this will do for the moment.
Dick

Dima
03-30-2003, 12:45 PM
Oilpastels are pigments mixed with a substance of wax and oil, hence the name.
Wax crayons contain more wax and no oil.

Some wax crayons are made to be watersoluable, others like oilpastels can be worked and blended with turps.
For those who like to work this way but dislike or can stand turps, I found some good news on the Faber-Castell site: they claim babyoil can be used to the same effect with all oilpastels.
(if anybody has done this or will try, please let us know about it)

The oils in oilpastels are mineral oils.
This touches on the issue can you use oilpastel on paper or will it eat the paper the way oilpaint does?
John Elliot says no because oilpastels contain inert oil whereas regular oils contain chemically active oil.
Or as Don Nederhand (technical advisor to Royal Talens) put it: as the pastels contain a non-drying oil there is no oxydation and no damaging of the paper.
On the other hand in the Pastel Journal no. 24 Anne Heywood says that she carefully chooses paper that have a protective coating to act as a buffer because oilpastels contain oil and acid in oil breaks down paper fibers.
Larry Seiler somewhere in these forums says the same about acid in oils breaking down the paper and has a lesson here on WC to make your own archival canvasboards.

So my little inquiry leaves the matter undecided for the time being.
If you want to be absoluty certain of durability use a coating
W&N clear gesso base or Golden acrylic ground for pastels have a pleasant texture that will take some layers.
For a smoother ground an acrylic medium should do.

Dick

NewCreation
03-30-2003, 05:10 PM
I have nothing to add except thank you, and I will be watching this thread closely.

E-J
03-30-2003, 05:22 PM
Dick, this thread is an excellent idea ~ good on you for getting it off to a great start :)

We could also give recommendations for brands of oil pastel to use, to avoid repeating this information in response to the posts from op newbies who are finding out that the cheaper brands are gritty, greasy, scratchy and difficult to work with.

I use Caran d'Ache Neopastel ~ not to be confused with their range of artist's crayons Neocolor & Neocolor II. Others here recommend Sennelier.

Oil pastels from Dick Blick dot com:

http://www.dickblick.com/categories/oilpastels/

Dima
03-30-2003, 06:04 PM
Thanks Amy and E-J.
And thanks for the Dick Blick link E-J, I like their categorization of artist- , student- and scholastic grade pastels and vote for maintaining this terminology/subdivision here.

I think there is some general agreement that Holbein, Sennelier and Caran dÁche Neopastels are artist grade.

Another brand I suspect of making artist quality is the Maimeri classico oil pastels.
Anyone familiar with these?
Maimeri gave me a emailaddress of a dealer in Belgium but they haven't reacted to my mail.


Dick

sundiver
03-30-2003, 06:10 PM
I use Holbein Artist-grade oil pastels (Holbein also has a student-grade version), and recently, Caran D'ache. I love the Holbeins, like the Caran D'aches.
Haven't tried Sennelliers yet.
I have blended oil pastels with baby oil. Any oil will work, but it's pretty greasy and you need thick paper to absorb it.

Mo.
03-30-2003, 06:33 PM
Hi Dick...good for you for starting this thread...like you I have searched for info on oil pastels without much success, I used them years and years ago before furthering to oil paints, and now I'm trying to remember what I did all those years ago....my memory is not that good these days, :).

I must have done some good paintings as I sold a few at art fairs. I still have my original Caran D'ache oil pastels, when I came to use them initially I thought they had dried out...but this was not so, can you believe after 25 years the colours are still fresh and workable, they had a white milky film over them, but once warmed up they woked like new again.

I have since bought some Senneliers, but I have to say I still think the Caran D'ache are superior, also I found in my box of oil pastels some thinner sticks called Pentel, don't know if these are still around, they are a little harder to use than Caran D'ache and Sennelier, but still quite good quality... I also bought recently a box of Daler-Rowney oil pastels...now you would think that they would be good being a well known brand name...all I can say is they are not, too waxy by far..may be okay for initial laying in of colour to save on the more expensive ones.

I've been experimenting and learning by my own mistakes of late, so if anyone wants to know of my learning experiences I'm willing to share them...it's all trial and error at the moment, I'ma long way off being an expert on them ... but hope to be. :)

Cheers,
Mo.

Sueb
03-30-2003, 06:42 PM
Dick, Thanks for starting this much needed thread. Here are my favorite materials and tips from a recent class. I noticed the other day that the review section did not have any products reviewed so I will head over there and post my reviews with more detail on those that I have tried.

My favorites.... in order of best first. Holbein, Caran d'ache NeoPastels, Sennelier, Sakura Craypas.

I was taught that the paper should be a treated, sealed surface and if it has a sanded texture it's already been treated. This is so the oils do not seep through and damage the paper. Because I did not know any better, I ordered a sampler of paper that included some that met that criteria and some that did not. I have tried most types in the package and have pretty much decided that I like the sanded surface better anyway. Wallis is my favorite and I buy the Plein Air pads in 9x12 size. I prefer to work on a colored surface so mix up an acrylic wash in peach (my instructors favorite), orange , reddish or yellow oche. This take the pressure off of trying to cover all of those white holes because oil pastels are not really that blendable and I like the warm atmosphere is give to the landscapes I personally favor.

We used soft pastel pencils(no graphite). I can't remember why, but will try to remember to ask next time I have a session. That is a another week away though.

I have used Turpenoid but did not really like the results. If I think of anything else, I'll add it later. The most important thing in my opinion is good pastels and good paper. There is a difference! Hope this helps some.

Sue

Mo.
03-30-2003, 06:53 PM
Sue: Thanks for the tips, I've been using Liquin and white spirit for blending the oil pastels...did this years ago, one of my friends still has the dog portrait I did for her 25 years on her wall, done on cansons pastel paper....and still looks as good as the day I painted it.

Cheers,
Mo.

Sueb
03-31-2003, 09:20 AM
Mo, Thanks. I will have do give it another try. Did you use a brush to blend or another method?

Other thoughts on methods I use......
I always lay in my lightest colors first because it's hard to go light once the paper is stained dark.

Also, an old plastic card (like a credit card) is useful for scraping off paint when you want to make a correction.

I sometimes reach a point where the paper will not accept any more paint so I set it aside for a few days or a week, then more paint easily goes on.

Hey guys, What papers do ya'll like to use best?

Sueb

ginatec
03-31-2003, 09:59 AM
Thanks for starting this thread...I have had so much help and advice on this Forum. It is good that we will have all the information in one place and save time for the generous people who reply to us individually.

E-J
03-31-2003, 11:01 AM
I have only tried two types of support with oil pastels on their own: regular Ingres and Daler-Rowney's special Oil Pastel paper.

http://www.daler-rowney.com/cat/drawsurf/10_11.html

The special op paper comes in spiral-bound pads and has a rather 'hard' feel to it which I don't much like. Besides this, it only comes in white, so you have to think about preparing it first if you prefer to work on a coloured ground.

What I've found really effective is using acrylic paper and doing a strong underpainting in acrylics before applying the oil pastel. It probably counts as mixed media the way I do it, with all the major shapes blocked in with paint first, but of course you don't have to take the underpainting that far. The op adheres quite happily to the acrylic.

Dima
03-31-2003, 03:48 PM
Well I had some Talens panda from a long time ago and some years ago bought a box of Sakura cray-pas that I never used.
Lately I bought a Talens van Gogh box.
And that is tha lot I started out with some three weeks ago.
Today I received a box 24 Daler-Rowneys (Mo, just like you thinking that is a good brand), a box of 36 Goldfabers and a wooden box with 50 Senneliers.
I intend to also buy some Neopastels.
And I am curious about the Maimeris.
Holbeins will be hard to get in my country or in Europe for that matter as they tell me they no longer have a distributor in Europe.

I do not yet have a good idea/judgement of their properties and how they compare.
But I will of course let you know when I am.

Haven't done underpaintings with oil pastels yet but will in time as that seems a sensible thing to do.

Mo, the idea of using liquin for blending is new to me.
Does that work well and doesn't that ask for a few hours of drying time before you can proceed to work over it?

Thanks for all your input, everybody.

Dick

Mo.
03-31-2003, 07:21 PM
I was taught that the paper should be a treated, sealed surface and if it has a sanded texture it's already been treated. This is so the oils do not seep through and damage the paper. Because I did not know any better, I ordered a sampler of paper that included some that met that criteria and some that did not. I have tried most types in the package and have pretty much decided that I like the sanded surface better anyway. Wallis is my favorite and I buy the Plein Air pads in 9x12 size. I prefer to work on a colored surface so mix up an acrylic wash in peach (my instructors favorite), orange , reddish or yellow oche. This take the pressure off of trying to cover all of those white holes because oil pastels are not really that blendable and I like the warm atmosphere is give to the landscapes I personally favor.

We used soft pastel pencils(no graphite). I can't remember why, but will try to remember to ask next time I have a session. That is a another week away though.

I have used Turpenoid but did not really like the results. If I think of anything else, I'll add it later. The most important thing in my opinion is good pastels and good paper. There is a difference! Hope this helps some.

Sue...you say above you used soft pastel? Bit confused here as you laid an initial wash with acrylics... where does the soft pastels come into play? When I painted with oils, I would generally cover the white canvas with a yellow ochre or burnt umber wash just to cover that inhibiting white...why are canvasses always white:D

I found an old pad of Daler-Rowney oil pastel paper today..interleaved with glassine paper, messed about with it tonight for a while...but not that happy with it, tomorrow I intend to play around with some oil boards..do you know the type? Card covered with some sort of cotton canvas... I think this could be a good support for the oil pastels...I'll let you know.

As for other supports, I've used in general most pastel papers, but the smooth side is best I find, not the textured side, also using black pastel paper makes the colours very vibrant. Again I've only been messing around.

To answer some other questions raised ... I use a pallette knife to scrape off excess and get back to the base... as to blending I also blend with a brush, shapers, cotton buds, fingers, and anything else that comes to hand. :) ..if using white spirit, I dip the brush into the spirit, then take off most of the excess by dabbing the brush a a peice of kitchen roll..then with the brush just damp blend the oils this way... the same with the liquin, don't overload the brush with the stuff.... it does take time to dry out..but I'm finding that I'm getting some good and interesting results and effects this way. Also as was said earlier, if you leave your work to ... I won't say dry out, 'cos they don't really do that, but they do harden, and I find that even after a few hours, I can lay mor oil pastel and work into what is underneath.. the pastels tend to become more and more sticky as they warm up, so it helps to let them cool off a little. :D

Hope this helps some,

cheers
Mo.

ptantono
04-01-2003, 02:22 AM
I know John Elliot is a famous potrait artist but I didnt know that he works with Oil Pastel. Geeee.......he could produce such beautiful potraits with this medium. A difficult blended medium.
I dont like oil pastel very much, some colors doesnt even want to lay on the paper but I use only student's grade. :D I work with oil pastel lately for some sample paintings for children to work with later on. Children from Grade 1 to 12 are using oil pastel in the school now.

Thanks Dick for the thread. I would love to know more. Blending with baby oil, interesting, I am going to try. :rolleyes: I never blend it with anything, pastel to pastel only. The only tool I use to scrap the mistakes is my nail. :D

Sueb
04-01-2003, 09:18 AM
Mo, I use pastel pencils to do a light sketch with. This would be only after I have already tinted the canvas and only if I needed to capture structure or detail. We called them soft pastel pencils in class...I think they are softer than a regular colored pencil. Sorry if this caused confusion.

I'm going to give the blending techniques another try. My instructors style was not to blend except with the oil pastels and being new to oil pastels, I have adapted the same to my style. BTW...I usually paint in oil and also tint my canvas.

Keep the good advice coming.

Sue

angeline
04-01-2003, 02:48 PM
I notice that noone has put a uk link for getting oil pastels heres one to be going on with
http://www.cass-arts.com/essentialsfr.jsp

Dima
04-04-2003, 08:40 AM
To me the word oilpastel sort of has gotten the ring of being free of any health hazards.
Dustfree and non-toxic etc. and I suspect most people will regard them as such.
On closer examination of my new Senneliers however I was somewhat surprised to find that they use cadmium pigments for the yellow-orange-red range and for some greens.
Oddly enough these sticks do not carry a warning as I would have expected in such case.
Not that this will pose a problem for me but some people want to stay clear of these pigments.
And the stuff keeps gettings everywhere and especially under my nails and then it might be good to know.

Dick


Angeline got me nowhere and drew blanks on searches for ops.

angeline
04-04-2003, 09:06 AM
That link I put are the one site I have found that do caran dache neopastels.........all the single colours.......just put neopastel in the search box.
this site also do sennellier oil pastels
http://www.lawrence.co.uk/index.html

Dima
04-04-2003, 09:20 AM
Hi Angeline,

I didn't like the first link as I felt it is not very intuitive to navigate and not very informative.
The second link looks very good in these respects.

Sorry for my blunt way of formulating; I see I wrote that you got me nowhere, while I wanted to write: Angeline, your link got...etc.
Hope you're not offendend.

Dick

angeline
04-04-2003, 09:32 AM
No offence taken!
I know cass arts are not the most user friendly site ......but the ONLY one in the uk I have found to do the neopastels that you and Mo have raved about.........which I still need to get.......gee these daler rowney oils are so much hard work!

Mo.
04-04-2003, 09:37 AM
I got my Senneliers oil pastels from :
www.jacksonsart.com (http://www.jacksonsart.com)

You can buy them boxed or singley there, I just picked out the colours I wanted and bought singley. singles are priced at £1 each wooden boxed sets start from £34.95 that's a set of 25 assorted, have yet to find a good site for Caran D'ache though.

cheers,
Mo.

E-J
04-05-2003, 04:43 PM
Dogs and cats immortalised in oil pastel by an artist called Sarah Theophilus... I'm posting the link because she's one of the most highly skilled oil pastellists I've found on the web:

http://www.petsinpastel.com/

angeline
04-05-2003, 04:49 PM
Ej ...........thanks for that link ....they are wonderful pics!
As for Caran D'ache the only site I found was the Cass arts site....they do all the colours singly you have to put neopastels in the search box.
http://www.cass-arts.com/essentialsfr.jsp

Mo.
04-05-2003, 06:49 PM
E-J: Thanks for the link, that artist is a sure master of the medium, there's hope for us yet I think :)

Ang : Thanks for the link, I've searched and searched for them.. glad you've found them, I think they are the best, although haven't tried Holbien yet.

cheers,
Mo.

Mo.
04-05-2003, 07:02 PM
Ang: I tried your link, typed in neopastels in the search box, but came up with nothing. :(

cheers,
Mo.

Healer
04-05-2003, 07:07 PM
hi,

i don't normally hang about in here but thought I'd add my comments. I have both the Caran Dache and Sennelier oil pastels and I much prefer the Senneliers. They are softer and more buttery to me and I like that because I like to spread them quite thickly. Heard a lot about the Holbein and they have a large range of colours, but like has been said, you'd have to order from the US. Only others I have ever tried were Guitar and Sakura (or somename like that).

regards,
Andy

Mo.
04-05-2003, 07:21 PM
Hi Andy and welcome fellow oil pastelist. :)

Isn't it strange how people differ, I have both sennelier and Caran D'ache, but prefer how the Caran D'ache handle, but I'm still in the process of re-learning these after a 25 year break. It's hard going, so if you have any helpful tips, please post them in this thread...we are all eager for any info that will improve our techniques and use of this medium.

Cheers,
Mo.

E-J
04-09-2003, 05:45 PM
Is there nobody here who can turn this thread into a 'sticky' for us?

Mo.
04-09-2003, 06:48 PM
It would have to be the moderator I believe E-J.

Mo.

E-J
04-11-2003, 06:19 PM
Yesterday I dug out a box of 12 unused Senneliers that I've had sitting around for a couple of years. I used to find the colours too garish, but now I wonder what I was thinking... some of them are rich and very beautiful. I've been playing around with them and they certainly handle very differently from the ones I'm used to. Whereas the Caran d'Ache get creamier and stickier from the warmth of your fingers, which I rather like because it feels as if they are 'responding' to me as I work, the Senneliers are already very smooth and oily to begin with. I like the way they glide across the texture of the Ingres paper I tried them on, but it may take me a while to get used to blending them into each other ~ they're so slippery!

sundiver
04-11-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by E-J
Is there nobody here who can turn this thread into a 'sticky' for us?
If we rate it with 5 stars it might get into the Pastel Hall of Fame..

E-J
04-14-2003, 10:18 AM
I have just discovered that the Senneliers are too oily for Ingres paper. I know it's a rather thin paper but I hadn't had any problem using the Caran d'Ache op's on it ~ but the Senneliers seep through it, leaving greasy marks on the back of the sheet. Going to try some different supports...

JamieWG
04-17-2003, 10:01 AM
I have some oil pastels on the way and just want to thank you all for sharing this valuable information. I too hope it gets placed somewhere that will be easy to access.

Jamie

JamieWG
04-17-2003, 10:39 AM
Here is another site for open stock of Caran d'Ache Neopastels:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz200/43/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1228

Dick Blick, on the site I just listed, give some information about oil pastels, courtesy of Sennelier:

Oil pastels can be used alone to create a painting. Apply them thickly or thinly, blurred or clearly defined. They can be combined with oil painting mediums such as turpentine, paint thinner, or any of the painting oils to produce glazing, scumbling, or wash effects.

Oil paints should never be used over oil pastels, because oil pastels never dry out, and oil paints will not adhere to the underlying surface. Oil paints can be used over an oil pastel wash, provided that the underlying surface is primed. Interesting effects can be achieved by scraping, scratching, smearing, or scrubbing the pastel surface.

Oil pastels can be used over oil paints, if the paint surface is thoroughly dry, but the dry paint must first be treated with retouch varnish so that the pastels will adhere to the surface.

Oil pastels can be used as a resist with water-based mediums such as watercolor or acrylic. Waterbased paint will not mix with the pastel. Oil pastels can also be used with colored pencils and oil sticks. They can be used in conjunction with printmaking inks to create monotypes.

Oil pastels can be applied with a palette knife to achieve impasto effects. For ease in application, the pastel can be heated or melted to obtain a smoother, more creamy or fluid medium.

Note — To protect an oil pastel surface from dirt and dust, apply a fixative 8 to 10 days after the work is completed. The fixative will not dry the work. If desired, a final varnish spray can be applied to seal the surface permanently, but this may adversely affect future restoration possibilities.

Recommendations for Supports — Sennelier Oil Pastels were created to free artists from technical restraints and the limitations of traditional supports such as canvas. They are extremely versatile and can be used on a wide variety of surfaces.

Use them on acid-free drawing paper, at least 100–110 lb. weight, or on watercolor paper, at least 140 lb. A surface that is lightly textured, but not rough, is customary for oil pastels.

Use them on museum board, illustration board, or any acid-free paperboard stock, or apply them to rigid supports such as wood, Masonite, glass, ceramics, or metal.

Soft supports such as canvas, made of cotton, linen, or polyester, can also be used, as well as other natural and synthetic fabrics.

Note — Although it is not absolutely required, Sennelier recommends applying a coat of gesso prior to painting on non-paper surfaces, to preserve the intensity and vibrancy of colors.

Mo.
04-20-2003, 10:23 AM
Has anyone tried Holbien Oil pastels? I see there are two grades of these, the most expensive being around $3 a stick, but the lower grade which I would imagine to be similar to Senneliers are about $1.50 a stick, those expensive ones intrigue me, there are about 225 different colours. According to the description of them, they are likened to high quality soft pastels in feel and application so any feed back on these would be appreciated.

cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
04-20-2003, 10:41 AM
Hi Mo...just did a little research here. My oil pastels have yet to arrive, but I'd be surprised if the Academic Holbein ops are as good as the Senneliers. The expensive Holbeins and the Senneliers, according to the info I can find, are nearly exactly the same in terms of price. Notice that the sets of the Holbein artist oil pastels are in wood boxes, and that always raises the prices. The Senneliers in the wood boxes are the same prices, and only the ones in cardboard boxes are less! I guess only trying them would determine quality though....Is there some other reason you think the Holbein Academic and Sennelier would be the same quality? Are the regular Holbein pastels superior to the regular (not oil) Senneliers?

Jamie

Mo.
04-21-2003, 03:13 PM
You are probably right Jamie, but from what I've seen of the Holbein the colour range is fantastic, I'm very tempted to send off for some.

I do wish this thread could stay at the top of the page as a sticky.

Cheers,
Mo.

ginatec
04-21-2003, 04:04 PM
This is a fantastic thread...I look forward to hearing how you enjoy using the oil pastels Jamie. Did you notice what it said on the web site about priming fabric such as canvas...do we just use gesso as normal?

I think when you reply to a thread you have the option to rate it...It gives it stars...but I am not sure if that helps make it a sticky!!

sundiver
04-21-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Mo.
Has anyone tried Holbien Oil pastels? I see there are two grades of these, the most expensive being around $3 a stick, but the lower grade which I would imagine to be similar to Senneliers are about $1.50 a stick, those expensive ones intrigue me, there are about 225 different colours. According to the description of them, they are likened to high quality soft pastels in feel and application so any feed back on these would be appreciated.
cheers,
Mo.

I love my Holbein Artist-quality o.p.s! The student-quality ones are similar to Cray-Pas Expressionist, IMO.
My Holbeins are lovely and creamy, and do feel almost like a soft pastel when applied. Senneliers are described as "lipsticky" so I'm guessing they are softer than Holbeins, although I've never tried the Senneliers. I have some Caran-D'Aches and they are somewhere in between.
The only Senneliers I have are 3 iridescent ones. They are smaller than the Holbeins, so if the price is the same, that would make the Senneliers more expensive.
I want to get some Senneliers for when I want to use something really soft- much like having various degrees of softness in regular soft pastels. But I'm very pleased with my Holbeins. I got them in open stock, didn't get the wooden box.

Mo.
04-21-2003, 07:18 PM
The Senneliers are lipsticky sundiver, and they do stick to your hands more so than the Caran D'ache. Senneliers are around £1 per stick from art express, so a little cheaper I think than Holbeins, they have a good colour range but not as extensive as Holbeins ....cannot find a U.K. supplier for Holbeins though. :(

Gina: This thread already has five stars, but was hoping it would be made into a sticky so that it would stay on top of the page.
It would save us hunting for it all the time.

Another question, has anyone yet tried oil pastels on velour or suede board? If so how did it go?

Cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
04-22-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Mo.
This thread already has five stars, but was hoping it would be made into a sticky so that it would stay on top of the page.
It would save us hunting for it all the time.

Hey, Mo, 'looks like you got your wish! :D (My wish too.)

My Sennelier OPs came yesterday. 'Haven't had a chance to try them yet...but soon! I'm surprised by how light they are compared with soft pastels.

Jamie

Mo.
04-22-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by JamieWG


Hey, Mo, 'looks like you got your wish! :D (My wish too.)

My Sennelier OPs came yesterday. 'Haven't had a chance to try them yet...but soon! I'm surprised by how light they are compared with soft pastels.

Jamie

Yes thanks to llis, I pm'd her about it and 'Hey presto' Great hey? :)
Did you buy a boxed set or just some singles? Let us know how you get on with them.... I've been experimenting more and more, and the more I experiment with them the more I'm loving them and learning.....tonight I've been working on a raptor on black suede board, just to see how the O.P's fare with the ground...so far so good, also want to see what sort of fine detail I can get with them...and again so far so good, I'm really excited about how it's turning out...also today found a good U.K. supplier for Caran D'ache which I prefer to the Senneliers, if anyone is interested in the site it's :http://www.ckart.co.uk/litchfield/index.htm

cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
04-22-2003, 08:06 PM
Mo, I got a wood-boxed, 50-color set on Ebay for a great price, so figured it was a good way to start out with OPs. I have to do some paper research, then I'll give them a try. I'm sure I have the "right" kind of paper, just not sure what that is yet! I will check back through this thread and others. From what the Dick Blick site said, the Stonehenge may be ideal. 'Looking forward to trying Caran d'Ache Neopastels too. I love their Supracolors and Neocolor II.

Speaking of which....Can I post Neocolor II paintings here in the pastels thread? They're probably closer to pastels and oil pastels than they are to anything else.

Mo, will you post your WIP of the raptor here so I can see it? Pretty please?

Thanks, Llis, for putting this thread on a sticky for us!
Jamie

Mo.
04-22-2003, 08:20 PM
Jamie, what are neocolour 11 and supra colours? You seem to know far more than I about these, I just call them Caran D'ache oil pastels, or as the U.K supplier called them when I phoned them 'dust free pastels' which I thought was a better description for them.

Are they the water soluble ones? If they are classed as pastels then post them Jamie...and yes I'll post the raptor when finished..hope it turns out okay. :)

I've been working on canson mi Tientes paper in the main, and have had good results, last one I did of some apple blossoms is posted in the pastel riot thread...


Cheers,
Mo.

Mo.
04-22-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by E-J
Yesterday I dug out a box of 12 unused Senneliers that I've had sitting around for a couple of years. I used to find the colours too garish, but now I wonder what I was thinking... some of them are rich and very beautiful. I've been playing around with them and they certainly handle very differently from the ones I'm used to. Whereas the Caran d'Ache get creamier and stickier from the warmth of your fingers, which I rather like because it feels as if they are 'responding' to me as I work, the Senneliers are already very smooth and oily to begin with. I like the way they glide across the texture of the Ingres paper I tried them on, but it may take me a while to get used to blending them into each other ~ they're so slippery!

I love the Caran D'ache...prefer them to the Senneliers..isn't it strange I find the Senneliers a little too sticky...we've had a quite a few days of hot weather recently and they became ultra sticky, so I stuck them in the fridge :D ... Then Hubby said why don't you put them in the picnic coolbag to save you going back and forth to the fridge.......brilliant idea yes? :) I have these gel coolers, so used those, it was magic!

For the blending I've been using the shapers and erasers, they are really good.

cheers,
Mo.

cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
04-22-2003, 08:35 PM
Mo, I love your idea of keeping them in a cooler in the hot weather! I would imagine they are NOT a good choice for hot weather plein air! Neither are colored pencils or Neocolor IIs or any other wax/oil stick mediums.

Mo, as far as I know, the Neocolor IIs are not classed as pastels, which is why I wonder about posting them here. 'Don't really want to take it to the Mixed Media forum. They are not mixed, and as I said, they are closest to OPs. They are waxed based, with the Neocolor II being watersoluble and the Neocolor not. Supracolors are the Caran d'Ache watercolor pencils and they are the greatest! I've tried lots and lots....the Supracolors go on rich and creamy with high pigmentation....really wonderful stuff.

Jamie

Mo.
04-22-2003, 08:44 PM
Jamie...just call them water soluble pastels, they are probably shaped like pastels yes? So give it a try...Dick uses them I think as a wash before applying the O.P's...other than that what about the watercolour forum....mmmmmm maybe not :D there may be too many purists there...dunno. :)

Yep plein aire..cooler bag stacked with oil pastels, chilled wine and yummy things to eat! :)


Oh heck give it go and postbe a devil.:evil: :D

Cheers
Mo.

Dima
04-24-2003, 06:51 PM
Hi Mo and Jaimie,

Mo, I have done some OP's on velourspaper.
Actually my first op was a goat on velours; it was a trial (try-out) that made me rediscover oilpastels.
I just did two that I posted some minutes ago.
I do like it as a ground though you can hardly make corrections, wich I find a bit troubling with my rough-and-tumble way of working.

And I did indeed use washes of neocolor II and neoart as underpainting for oilpastels.
For instance in 'some nudes OP 1 and 3'.
They go together very well with oilpastels, Jaimie.
Not only as washes for underpainting, but as crayons they can be used interchangeably with op's.
Neocolor I is the school- or studentquality op where neopastel is artistquality.
Neocolor II and neoart compare the same way.
Proberbly meaning neocolor I will be more waxy and neopastel and neoart will contain more quality pigments, though I understand that the neocolors are extremely good and lightfast for schoolmaterials.
As for categorisation since the neocolors and neoart are wax-crayons I would think they are most closely related to oilpastels.
Though if you make a wash with water you might also call it a watercolour as the difference might be hard to tell.
John Elliot in his oilpastel book speaks of watersoluable oilpastels mentioning another brand (Portfolio by Binney-Smith).

The cooler-bag or freezer-pack is a good idea, BTW also advised by John Elliot as a must for the plein-air oilpastelist.
The wine is good idea too, Mo!
Cheers,

Dick

flower
05-04-2003, 07:15 PM
Hi everyone,

I would just like to say after having read the whole of this thread through that i found it to be extremely helpful and interesting.

When i started off painting about a year ago i wanted to try all mediums, and of course bought something from everything, in between i found my interest lay in watercolour until recently when i got my pastels out and started to discover the joy of colours and blending.

I`d bought oil pastels from van gogh and caran dárche cos they were the only ones available here (I´m in Germany) and of course as soon as i read the thread about caran dárche ,was overjoyed to find that i had the right ones. Has anyone used van gogh?

I have read all the comments about which paper to use but at the moment there´s so much choice that i´m confused, (that`s not unusual LOL), what would you suggest weight wise etc. for a beginner, bearing in mind that we don´t have the variety of paper that you have in england and america, i was in ireland 2 weeks ago and bought daler rowney 150 gm pastel paper and found it much better that the paper i´m using here in germany.

Any tips in this area would be much appreciated and thanks again for everyone who contributed to this very informative thread

Dyin
05-04-2003, 11:36 PM
This is a great thread. I had been working in soft pastels and tho I liked it better than painting it was very tiring dealing with the dust and I hated the handling aspects of the finished painting. So I went and bought a cheap $6.00 set of OP's at the local discount craft store just a couple weeks ago. Well, I'm ording a complete set of Caran D'ache and Senneliers...I'm so IN LOVE with this medium!!:clap: I've got a painting almost completed on a pastel paper using an acrylic gloss coating to protect the paper...as long as you don't mix water with it, it works as a fixative...it's fine but I like the buttery look of the pastels, which you lose with a fixative and it's harder to get it to stick to a plastic surface, and I've been playing on a sample of La Carte Pastel board and I love how it works..it grips so nicely. But is it fair to sell artwork on a surface that might degrade? I'm getting some pastel board but am afraid it also will be plastic feeling since it has acrylic gesso on it. I'll be trying the Sennelier fixative when my order comes in too. I haven't gotten the book yet but when I was cruising around saw that Walmart is selling it online for almost $7.00 cheaper than listed price. I have heard that the Senneliers are best used over the Caran D'ache as a final buttery coat. Stencils work great to keep an area white if you like to do the back ground first. Another technique to try was in the Pastel Journal involving heating a foil pan and then applying the OP while it is hot and then pressing the image onto paper by burnishing with a spoon...all while the pan is still hot. The results are interesting and you can refine it with the OPs afterwards. I use Prismacolor pencils for edges and I can lightly rub over the OP with the side of the lead to impart a little light shading. So far this is as far as I've gotten with the OPs but I really am psyched about experimenting as much as I can with them. How long do these threads keep going? lol!

Pilan
05-06-2003, 12:39 PM
If I treated frabriano watercolor paper with a coat of white acrylic gesso or gamblin white ground would that help.

Geez first i need to see if the gamblin white ground is oil base :rolleyes: . I have never read the ingredients on the can.

I purchased some neo oil pastels and wanted to try them out on paper but need to wait until I know what to treat the paper with first.

Thanks for this thread.

Also, can anyone tell me the difference between the oil sticks Shiva or sennelier compared to oil pastels. I think this is very confusing to me. :confused:

Pilan

Mo.
05-07-2003, 08:26 PM
Hi folks, apologies for not replying to your post Dick, you really are a mine of information :)
Do you realise what you have started here with this thread? I'm so glad you did, and it's about time you posted some more of your work too, I loved the 'Conductor' wonderful work :clap:

As too the waterbased pastels, I'm not sure that I would like them, years ago I tried water soluble oil paint, and just couldn't gel with them at all... have a feeling that the water soluble oil pastel would be the same... what I like about the OP's is ability to manipulate them, push them , move them, spread them, shape them, brush them, blend them, stroke them, scratch them, turps them, harden them off, and put a new layer on them... it just doesn't end does it?... All the differing effects that can be achieved with them is phenomenal.

Can you do all these thing with watersoluble OP's?

Pilan..I've not used OP's on a watercolour paper, so don't know...but I have never primed a surface before.. when I first used oil pastels about 28 years ago,... for a short while before moving to oil paints, I used to use pastel papers, never applied a prima to the paper then... A friend of mine still has the portrait of her dog that I did all those years ago, and this was on a piece of pastel paper from a pastel pad..ingres I think and only about 80gm's weight.. so not even a good quality paper..

My recent WIP was painted on Somerset Velvet pastel paper... this paper is brilliant to use for soft pastels, but found it hard to use with the oils... Canson Mi Tientes, I have found to be an excellent paper to use, and just recently I have discovered suede board, this is supreme, but very expensive, not a ground to practice on, but for serious work.

Hope this helps some.

Cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
05-07-2003, 09:54 PM
Mo...I'm not stalking you, honest lol! Not too many OP threads is all...who makes the suede board? I've got a sample piece of La Carte Pastel pastel card from Sennelier...it's got a sanded surface and it grabs the OPs great, might be worth a try. I'm glad to hear that the prime isn't needed...Might as well try to paint on an oil slick this last painting I'm doing...I'm making it work, but not as easy as it would be on a toothy surface. I've got a small flower piece in OPs on watercolorpaper...works nice.

Mo.
05-09-2003, 07:30 PM
Dyin... the suede board over here is made by Arcadia I think..not 100% certain, but it's a mountboard/matt board...I had an off cut from a picture framer...it's rather expensive to buy though.

I've been practising on water-colour paper tonight, find it pretty good, got some nice effects.
I like you tinyhead, is that a painting of yours in OP'S?


Almost forgot too, you asked what the was the difference between oil sticks and OP'S?... Well oil sticks are jsut that...sticks of solid oil paint, I've thought about using them, but they are quite pricey...anyway I still have all my oil paints, so don't see the need really.

Looking forward to seeing your painting.

Cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
05-09-2003, 07:37 PM
Thanks Mo...I haven't seen any in any of the supply books like Dakota Art Pastels or Dick Blick....
My tiny head is a soft pastel on velour...whew is that a touchy support! I just posted my OP...it's on the pastel page for today...I'm really pretty isolated as an artist so this feedback and sharing is great!! Thanks for taking the time to share!

Mo.
05-09-2003, 07:46 PM
The same here Dyin, I live in the sticks, so don't get to mix with fellow artists very much.... You can pm me any time okay. :)

Cheers,
Mo.

Dima
05-09-2003, 08:42 PM
Hello flower, I used the van Goghs in all the OP's (no more than 10 that is) I have done and posted in this forum.
Hahnemuhle blocks pastell and velours should be easy to get in Germany and are good grounds for OP's. So are wc- and acrylicpapers which also lend themselves well for underpainting.
Canson mi-teintes and Fabriano tiziano are the classic coloured pastel papers also used for OP.
One of the characteristics of OP is that it will adhere to almost anything, so that leaves us with a lot of possible grounds and room for experiments.

Dyin, acrylic gloss medium is very smooth and slippery for a ground. Matt medium would be better or better still if you add pumice- or marble dust to it, makes an ideal ground for pastels and op's. W&N have a ready made product called clear gesso base which has somewhat the same effect.
I also thought of La Carte and felt it took some OP's nicely; I emailed them asking if La Carte could be used for OP and they replied that this paper was "reservé" for dry pastels and that have a Carte d'Art D340 that is their specialty paper for OP and wet techniques.
Hope to learn about your experiments soon.

Pilan, don't know about the gamblin but an acrylic gesso would certainly protect your paper.
BTW you can allways savely try out your neopastels on any good wc- or pastel paper as it is highly unlikely that it will desintegrate within say the next 50 or 100 yrs.

Hi Mo, yes I think we stirred something up here and I take it that you yourself, sundiver, Mikki, E-J and Sue to name a few will take some of the credit for the recent interest in OP.
Your demothread rightfully did attract some attention!

I posted a portrait yesterday and hope I will be able to post in the near future as my digital camera started behaving funny and is playing tricks on me which I do not find funny at all.

As for the watersoluables or neoarts I think they cannot be compared to the waterthinnable oils.
When used dry they look like crayon or OP and with water they behave and look like watercolours.
I haven't thought of using turps with them yet, maybe someone else knows if and how that works?

You make me very curious about the suede board.

Dick

Dyin
05-09-2003, 10:30 PM
Dima, this is the GREATEST thread! Thanks for all your insights along with Mo's. I was just looking at that W&N gesso base and you made up my mind to try it. Did Carte d'Art say where you could buy the D340? I got some Wallis sanded and will be trying that soon...it seems to be close to the tooth in the C d'A sanded pastel...I have to find your portrait thread and take a look see! Dima, you can PM me anytime...it's fun to be excited about the same medium with other people! Well, off to find your portrait!

jackiesimmonds
05-10-2003, 02:22 PM
I posted this as a new thread, bu someone suggested I post it here, so here is a copy. It is a "beware" kind of comment:

"surfaces suitable for oil pastels
This may be preaching to the converted, but something I recently learned and might interest you op-ers out there.
I know that some of you work on Canson, so this is why I post this info which is culled from an article I have read:

""on a non surface-sized support, the acid-rich content of oil pastels tends to cause them to leach into the support as the pigment dries out and oxidises; this will penetrate absorbent surfaces and eventually cause the paintings to deteriorate (J: !!!!!!). Therefore a good quality surface-sized support is recommended. Some manufacturers have started to produce both loose sheets and bound pads of surface-sized papers in a variety of weights for oil pastellists. I find the lightweight 240gsm Clairefontaine Oil Blocks, with 15 glued sheets of 9x12 linen texture paper, particularly suitable for oil pastel work out of doors due to their collective lightness, or as an alternative surface, the similarly textures 290gsm CANSON FIGUERAS 9x13" in blocks of ten sheets. Besides paper, stretched canvas and canvas boards can be used, but they do have a mechanical texture.

Most sheets and blocks of watercolour paper have a surface size applied to them (usually gelatin) and so need no preparation for work in oil pastels WITHOUT ADDED SOLVENTS. However, when using oil pastel diluted with solvents, the thin surface size on waercolour paper is dispelled, so the surface should first be primed.

My own surface sizing for watercolour papers is gesso, applied to make the surface unique for each apinting............with gesso added, watercolour papers become a really strong and durable surface on which to work.

For textured surfaces, Gesso is generously applied to the surface using large decorators brushes and linear effects can be scratched into it. Textured cloths, netting, coars canvas pieces, etc anything that will make an interesting but applicable mark, can be worked into this gessoed ground, Texture gells can be added to the wet gesso to give an extra tooth to workable areas. These prepared surfaces are exciting to work on and add another dimension to the painting process."


It was the bit about the solvents causing the picture to deteriorate if used on an unprimed surface, that I felt you should know about. I put in the rest out of interest.

Jackie
www.jackiesimmonds.co.uk

Dyin
05-10-2003, 02:41 PM
I saw and think I responded to this earlier...it seems to me that there are conflicting reports of whether the supports degrade or not...I'm reading Elliot's Oil Pastels for the serious beginner and tho I'm still skimming info and may be wrong here...he doesn't seem to prepare a lot of his papers. Also have seen some remarks here about some work that has lasted 30 years with no degradation and others how it did. Since I'm still learning I want to explore different surfaces...I loved how the Sennelier sanded pastel paper worked on a sample piece and tried it plain and with a base coat...the base coat caused it to lose the great tooth somewhat. And I can't imagine how you'd prepare velour and keep its qualities. My question to everyone is twofold...what is your opion/experience and secondly if you do happen to sell a piece on a surface that is not treated...is this unethical and should it be stated that the work may degrade possibly someday?

J...where can one find the Clairefontaine Oil Blocks and can you describe their properties a bit? Thanks

Mo.
05-10-2003, 03:24 PM
Dyin, acrylic gloss medium is very smooth and slippery for a ground. Matt medium would be better or better still if you add pumice- or marble dust to it, makes an ideal ground for pastels and op's. W&N have a ready made product called clear gesso base which has somewhat the same effect.
I also thought of La Carte and felt it took some OP's nicely; I emailed them asking if La Carte could be used for OP and they replied that this paper was "reservé" for dry pastels and that have a Carte d'Art D340 that is their specialty paper for OP and wet techniques.
Hope to learn about your experiments soon.

Pilan, don't know about the gamblin but an acrylic gesso would certainly protect your paper.
BTW you can allways savely try out your neopastels on any good wc- or pastel paper as it is highly unlikely that it will desintegrate within say the next 50 or 100 yrs.

Dick, thanks for all the excellent info... I've heard about W&N clear gesso, but my art store hasn't. :)...in fact they don't keep a good stock of gesso at all.


Jackie..thanks for posting this information here, although it is as Dyin says a bit of a controversial subject, as John Elliot uses WC papers extensively.... he claims that....

student grade oil pastels made with fugitive dyes or other non-permanent materials will degrade much faster than the professional brands, and finished paintings combining these non-professional oil pastels will not hold up well over time.


He also says...

As long as the oil pastels you use contain INERT oil (such as mineral oil) in the binder, rather than chemically active oil (such as linseed oil), you can paint directly on paper. I have oil pastel paintings I did more than 40 years ago directly on pastel paper, museum board, and 300 and 400 lb watercolor papers. These paintings are just as I painted them, and I expect them to last far into the future.

I do not know the exact formulas used by the major oil pastel manufacturers. However, I have been assured by the Presidents of both HK Holbein and Sennelier, that their professional artist quality oil pastels use INERT oil. Hence, you can safely use these professional quality brands. There may be other brands using inert oil: I will update this site as I learn of them.

Of course, you will need to select archivally safe papers as well – some terms to look for are acid-free, archivally safe, etc.

When in doubt, check directly with the manufacturer.

So it could be that it's only the student grade pastels that effect the paper?

Here's the site, which I only found yesterday, after my John Elliot book arrived

http://www.johnelliot.com/ques.htm

It's a very good site with lots of Q&A's there, one to definitely bookmark....Also when in doubt I guess prime the paper first, although there are oil pastel paintings of mine still as good as new with no sign of deteriation, these were done about 28 years ago on pastel paper from a pad of Ingres... I have tried the canvas boards, but quite honestly didn't like them at all, I also have a pad of oil pastel paper, but not too over joyed with the surface of that either....guess I'm hard to please.:)

cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
05-10-2003, 03:26 PM
Jackie, thanks so much for posting that information to this thread. I probably wouldn't have seen it posted in the forum, but I'm subscribed to this thread.

That is very interesting information, and actually, it contradicts what Sennelier claims about OP surfaces. I posted that on page 3 of this thread. I wonder if Sennelier will change their statement now that they've come out with a special paper for oil pastels! (White only)

Jamie

Mo.
05-10-2003, 03:29 PM
Jamie...we posted at the same time, so you may have missed my post above...interesting reading.

Cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
05-10-2003, 04:51 PM
Mo...been to the John Elliot site, but somehow missed that link and can't WAIT to go see the other artist links! I think that different supports work differently according to the artist's styles too...Right now I think I'll just keep playing...it's the only way to find what I like best...and I guess I'll just have to live to be a hundred to see if the work that is unprimed lasts at least 50 years....unless you want to give me an update on yours in another 20 years lol!

jackiesimmonds
05-11-2003, 02:56 AM
Since I am not an op painter and haven't experimented myself to any great extend, I bow to everyone else's exerience and research. I agree tho - when in doubt about the content of the pastels, it may be best to prime. The info I wrote here was from an article by a UK op artist, and may of course only be his opinion - and not necessarily accurate. It just seemed logical to me, but I had not done the in-depth research that you have done, Mo, which is fascinating.

Jackie

Mo.
05-11-2003, 08:14 AM
Jackie.. I for one am grateful to you for drawing this important fact to our attention, your OP friend probably has far more experience with them than I....I've only really touched the surface, so I gobble up any info I can find on them.

I think I may well be using a gesso on certain papers in future though, afterall it cannot do any harm, and as you say logical too, especially when using the turps/white spirit technique......better to be safe than sorry. :)

cheers,
Mo.

Howard Metzenberg
05-16-2003, 07:28 PM
Thanks for all your mentions of us.

We just recently added open stock for the Sennelier Oil Pastels. You can get an idea of the color range here.

Sennelier Oil Pastels (open stock)
http://www.dickblick.com/zz200/38/

Look for more oil pastels to be added in open stock in the year to come.

One person mentions that some of the Sennelier Oil Pastels use cadmium pigments. You should decide for yourself, of course, but cadmium pigments are considered an acceptable hazard in many other art materials.

In some materials, cadmium is not biologically active at high enough a level to be considered a threat, while in other mediums, it is considered at least mildly toxic. Luckily, it's expensive enough that manufacturers use cadmium only in real artist-grade materials. And since the choices of lightfast reds, oranges, and yellows are so much narrower than for other artist colors, it's good that we have it.

Cadmium is absorbed most easily by inhalation but, poorly by ingestion, and it is not absorbed through the skin. It is not nearly as toxic as some other heavy metals, and there are low levels of it already present in the natural environment. Cadmium oxide is intensely irritating in the lungs. It's one of the hazards of smoking, and contributes to emphysema in long term smokers.

Sennelier Oil Pastels are labeled AP-Nontoxic under guidlines set up by the Art and Creative Materials Institute. Oil paints that use cadmium pigments tend to be rated CL Caution Label by ACMI, but many other mediums such as acrylics and oil pastels are allowed to use some of the cadmiums and still carry the AP-Nontoxic label, apparently because the pigment is in a binder that is not ingested easily, and because dust and inhalation is not a serious threat in those mediums.

For those of you who are teachers, the Van Gogh Oil Pastels are a new brand. Van Gogh is the "student" line from Talens, makers of Rembrandt. They've recently introduced a lot of Van Gogh drawing products, and all of them are getting good reviews for a student grade. I think they're the ones I would choose if I were teaching more advanced secondary school students.

Van Gogh Oil Pastels (sets)
http://www.dickblick.com/zz200/63a/

Van Gogh Oil Pastels (open stock)
http://www.dickblick.com/zz200/63/

Oil pastels have always been popular with teachers in the middle grades because they are dust free, and more versatile than crayons. The best known brand seems to be Sakura Cray-Pas.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials

Dyin
05-16-2003, 07:49 PM
Thanks, Howard, for the information! It's really nice to be able to find all this information on a chosen medium. And it's good to know you'll carry more of the Senneliers.
Hey all!!! I'm working on the May pastel project and using solvent with the OPs...actually it's Windson & Newton Blending and Glazing Medium for oil paint.....you just GOTTA try it!! It was like finger painting...well, actually, some parts WERE finger painting lol! I'm going to be posting a step by step as WIP's later...been taking pics. Also, I'm working on an acrylic primed canvas, it's slick but it suits my style pretty well here...both for the solvent and for the blending. Actually, blending is a lot easier on this than the primed pastel paper I tried. I am SO PSYCHED about this project!!! And it's pretty quick....I've got about 1/3rd completed and I started with a sketch this morning and have been dealing off and on with a computer company by phone and had hubby home for lunch too....I can't WAIT to get my complete set of Senneliers...I think I'm going to LOVE painting with 'wet soap' LOL! Oh...have noticed that some colors are much firmer than others but I'm still working with my cheapo set...I found that if you use the firmer color with a light touch it'll stick to the softer color underneath. I'm loving the luminous richness of these OPs...I think they blend great and act like a glaze which really throws the light around. I think that OPs and crayons are about as far apart as cream and1% milk. That's such a common misconception (that they're like crayons) that when an artist friend suggested I try them about 7 years ago I scoffed...well, everything I learned since then is going into this, so I guess I won't cry over the lost time. Happy painting all!

Mo.
05-16-2003, 08:59 PM
Thank you Howard for the important info..good to know that you are going to supply open stock too.

Kyle... I can see you are so enthusiastic with this medium...like me..:)

I have to do a Demo on Tuesday using OP's wish me luck, I'm so nervous...it was originally to be soft pastels when they booked me, but now of course it has to be OP's.... I've been working on the composition of what I will do today (using Painter..which is a digital piece of paint software)...two scarlet macaws... just hope I don't get tongue tied:), so far so good... I've also been trying a very thin wash of acrylics on WC paper before applying the OP's, and pleasantly surprised with the results, although it takes a little longer to harden this way.

The glazing material you are using, is it Liquin? I've tried this, but didn't like it very mcuh...funnily enough when I painted with oils, I used to use it for glazing, but found it sticky, and didn't dry out very quickly, so reverted to glazing with a mix of oil & turps, which I found much better.

Look forward to your WIP.

Cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
05-16-2003, 09:40 PM
Good luck, Mo! Wish we could see your Demo as a WIP! No, it's not Liquin...it's actually just called Windson & Newton Blending and Glazing Medium for oil paint, I got it at the local Michael's. It takes a little while to dry, but not that long...I liked being able to manipulate it. Well...off to do my WIP pics on the project! Let us know how the Demo goes!

Mo.
05-17-2003, 08:35 PM
Thanks Sue... I'm working on (something colourful) which is what they asked for...and it's wildlife again (2 scarlet macaws..guess that will be colourful enough:D),... what they asked for, this will be my biggest painting in OPS so far, I intend to put in all the basics with a hint of detail..and then carry on from there at the demo... So far I have primed a sheet of Langton's watercolour paper with a thin wash of white acrylic...size 18x14 inches... I used 2 ref pics for the composition, that was hard, as I had to make sure they were scaled to the right size...these two pics I have composed into one painting, then used another rainforest pic which I buzzed and added colours to for the background... using turps and a pieces of paper towel to pread the ops over the background and I've produced some really nice effects... I'm looking for a rainforest background, with all the colours that would be in the leaves...so colourful painting it will be :D:D

Cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
05-17-2003, 09:01 PM
Oh...please, please, please....would love to see it before you take it and after it's done! It sounds really nice and I'd like to see how the turp/paper towel thing worked too....colorful is what these OPs do best I think...so share if you can find the time!

Sue/Dyin

Kathryn Wilson
05-17-2003, 09:57 PM
Mo : You go girl - I know you will wow them. Now that I have read through some of this thread again, and what the Dick Blick rep talked about, I am going to try and do at least a small OP this week. Getting ready to go away for 2 weeks and have tons to do.

The Windsor Newton blending material sounds interesting - it may be just what I need to get started.

Good luck Mo!

BTW - I have Painter also, but have no used it in conjunction with this aspect of painting. When you get done with your presentation and get gathered together, can you give us a quick description of how you used it for this project?

sundiver
05-24-2003, 08:45 PM
I was asked to put this here, from the Pastel Riot thread. Don't knoe if I can get this to work.
quote:
Originally posted by Mo.
Wendy you are so knowledgeable and experimental with the OP's, give girl, tell us more, better still post in the OP thread about your techniques..pretty please,....this technique is intriguing me, why oh why don't you give a WIP/demo? I know I asked you before... and I know what your answer was then, I don't accept that answer, come on Wendy, you are so good with them..can't I twist your arm a little
Love this painting, cheapos or not it's excellent. I want to know/learn more.Cheers,
Mo.

Ouch! My arm!
A quickie
ref pic (by mustcreate)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-ref_pic.jpg

stage 1 marker on manilla tag
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-6393-pepperswip1.jpg

stage 2 oil pastel
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-6393-pepperswip2.jpg

Then it gets completely covered in India ink. Didn't bother scanning that stage!
Lastly, the ink gets scratched off!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-6393-pepperswip3.jpg


There are lots of ways to vary this; scratch more specifically, wash the ink off, etc.


__________________
I pity people who know everything.

Last edited by sundiver on 05-23-2003 at 02:14 PM

sundiver
05-24-2003, 10:32 PM
Variations of the aforementioned o.p.-and-ink method.(these are mostly FNDs from last year) (Whatever happened to the FNDs?)
The pastel underpainting was the girl and bird, the sgraffito is trees and a castle.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-medieval_sgraffito.jpg
I did the scratching in the form of branches and leaves.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-froginkpastel.jpg
The scratching was fairly specific here to match the underpainting.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-May-2003/6393-fndskullsgraffito.jpg

Dyin
05-24-2003, 11:11 PM
Hey, that's really a great demo...can't wait to try something like that...hmmmm...did you pour the ink on or brush it on? Did you let the OP get a skin first??? Anyways, it's a pretty cool effect...what are FND'S???

sundiver
05-24-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Dyin
Hey, that's really a great demo...can't wait to try something like that...hmmmm...did you pour the ink on or brush it on? Did you let the OP get a skin first??? Anyways, it's a pretty cool effect...what are FND'S???
Thanks! Brushed it; not too thick, usually some color still shows. And usually I'm in a rush to get the ink on so I can start scratching away at it, that I doubt it gets a "skin". FNDs are, or were, Friday Night Drawing events. The host would post the images, we'd have 2 hours to come up with something, then we'd all post our results pretty much at once, from all over the world. They were cool. And the chatroom was open for realtime discussion as well. Lots of fun.

Dyin
05-25-2003, 12:02 AM
Ha I'm always in a rush for things too... I forgot to ask...what's the support you use??? It really is a cool effect...do you just use black india ink? I wonder if the colored inks would work too...what do you scratch it off with and do you leave the ink on long...or are you in a rush then too lol? Thanks for answering, I see something I could use it for... just a part of the painting, but it really would be a neat effect

Mo.
05-25-2003, 01:24 PM
Wendy...thanks for posting these, they fascinate me, Love that skull..... I can see this technique can be turned to really good use for different effects, wish I knew about it when I did Redsy's project, I think it would have been useful on the one I did there.

Those FND's sounded fun, wonder why they stopped doing them?

cheers,
Mo.

JamieWG
05-25-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Mo.
Those FND's sounded fun, wonder why they stopped doing them?

cheers,
Mo.

Mo, the FNDs and SNDs are a blast. It just takes somebody to host it. I hosted a bunch of them, but I've been working Friday nights and Saturdays during the school year.......haven't been able to host one for quite some time. I was hoping to do a couple over the summer.

You just need to let Bobby (Baquitania) know if and when you want to host one. Be sure you have a moderator lined up in advance to approve the project at the given time. Choose your theme/reference images/links. Announce that there will be a FND/SND in the forums beforehand....but it's nice to keep the theme a surprise until the time of the event. Most of us have been leaving the time frame open so that those who cannot do it at the exact time of the event can do it sometime during the weekend instead. They are loads of fun! I will host one or two over the summer, but probably not until July. Can anybody do June?

Jamie

Vegas Art Guy
06-11-2003, 08:55 PM
I've had some success with oil pastels. I've a set of Van Gogh, and I really like them. I've used them on a 9"x12" canvas, 80# charcoal paper (the brand escapes me), and gessoed masonite. I liked the results from the canvas the best, there is ZERO give on the masonite and you really have to put layer after layer and then blend in order to get solid colors, but it will certainly give a different feel to your work. I also have some student grade oil pastels that I'll give to my daughter when she's older. Anyway that's just my 2 cents...

Kathryn Wilson
06-11-2003, 10:40 PM
Sundiver: I think Dyin was asking if you let the Oil Pastels get a "skin" first - I have one that is a little tacky still after a couple of weeks. And, when you brush the ink on, how long do you let that sit? This is a lot like scratchboard I would think, but softer.


Mo: The Drawing Forum had a FND last week - it seemed to be a convoluted process to get one started. The person who posted it had a story, with reference photos, that you could do your drawing around. I think they have it every two weeks.


:cat:

Dyin
06-13-2003, 12:39 AM
This is sort of a 'public service' post...
Sennelier just discontinued 23 OIL PASTEL colors (the ad says 26 but they just dropped the extra white, black and pearl white)

they added 44 new colors to the line...and they are LUSCIOUS!!!

Anyways I kind of freaked out as I'd only had my new full set for 2 weeks but Dakota Art Pastel did good by me....and I now have the complete set of 120 colors.

so I just rearranged all the colors and I thought I'd let you know which color numbers can no longer be replaced....

70, 71, 24, 10, 78, 81, 83, 89, 73, 79, 9, 97, 120, 121, 122, 124, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133

there are no colors to replace the pearl, iridescent ones (they left 10 of them including the metallic)...
but Dakota Art Pastel does have the new line color charts so you should be able to figure out what would be close for a replacement.

Hope this saves someone a headache!!!

sundiver
06-16-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by kyle
Sundiver: I think Dyin was asking if you let the Oil Pastels get a "skin" first - I have one that is a little tacky still after a couple of weeks. And, when you brush the ink on, how long do you let that sit? This is a lot like scratchboard I would think, but softer.
Mo: The Drawing Forum had a FND last week - it seemed to be a convoluted process to get one started. The person who posted it had a story, with reference photos, that you could do your drawing around. I think they have it every two weeks.
:cat:

I don't wait for a skin, not that I've ever even noticed a skin- I thought that what distinguished o.p.s from oil sticks was that o.p.s didn't GET a skin. Anyway, I cover it with ink immediately. It dries quickly, but sometimes I help it out with a hairdryer, and go at it right away. Yes, it's just like scratchboard, but less controlled.

BTW the FNDs aren't usually very complicated. The theme is usually quite simple. If you brouse back through the projects you'll see lots of FNDs, SNDs and SDEs, all the same thing.

BlueJackal
06-17-2003, 07:39 PM
Hi everyone. This is my first post with any real content. I'm rather new here. I'm also new to art in general. I never did art as a kid unless I was forced to, and now I'm trying to make up for it (Though I really suck at it, lol).

So, I decided to try Sundiver's cool technique. I started by using oil pastels to 'paint' four simple fruits, one in each corner, on Vellum Bristol paper (Nice tooth I thought, but the paper warped when I added the ink later). I used turps on some of them to blend in a bit more, though blending doesn't seem to have quite as much purpose in a project such as this (depending on how much ink you remove) because you don't really see the blending. The black ink makes the colors stand out more, and my hard work blending is barely noticable, lol.

Anyway, after I got finished OP'ing, I brushed on india ink (very) slightly diluted with water. I let it dry till there were only a few slightly tacky spots, and then began. I used two different art blades, one with a very fine point and one with a slightly more blunt angled pojnt. The fine pointed one tended to slice right through and grabbed the paper :( The other one worked well, though.

I just worked from the middle out. I think I put the ink on a bit thick in places, because it tended to flake at some points. I also learned (as you'll see) that the apple in the upper right didn't turn out at all. I now realize that if you don't layer the OP nice and thick, the ink won't scrape off ;(

So, erm, I hope that helps with any questions. I'm definately going to try this technique again, using this new knowledge. Hopefully it'll help the rest of you too.


(BTW, I did this all today in about 3 hours. If it looks strupid or if I've got typos, please blame it on the finger and wrist I broke yesterday on my bike, lol. Sorry for the poor quality picture, too)

Mo.
06-17-2003, 08:40 PM
Hi Blue Jackal.. good to see you here. :)

Oil pastels are really taking on now with lots of artists, which is so good, as I feel it's a medium that many shy away from... but it's beautiful to use, it is so versatile, the technique you have used here I personally haven't tried yet, but you seem to be doing really well, hopefully Sundiver who is brilliant at this and other techniques with the OP's, will see your post and give you some of her excellent knowledge on this.

To me it looks great.

cheers,
Mo.

BlueJackal
06-17-2003, 10:17 PM
Thanks Mo. I think my attempt was rather poor, but at least I'm trying lol. It would be awesome if Sundiver posted more info. I think she does an awesome job!

I forgot to mention:

On the upper left strawberry, during the actual pastel work, I made seeds by kinda grounding/twisting/mushing white oil pastel in different spots (Resulting in slightly raised white seeds). When I scratched at the ink, those spots tended to retain their ink (as you can kinda see from the pic). I thought that was kinda interesting.

sundiver
06-19-2003, 03:10 PM
Lookin' cool, BJ!
It's fun to experiment. Anything I've learned has pretty much been from trial and error- with lots of errors I might add! I like the texture on the strawberry.
One thing sure is, a nice thick greasy cover insures that the ink will come off when you want it to. Even then, there's a certain amount of unpredictibility.
About blending: I have found that if you layer colors over each other, like you normally would, only the bottom layer shows when you scratch. So blending has to be side-by-side, if that makes any sense. If I want little white spots or highlights, I put them on first.
I have also found that certain pastels work better than others in this method, but I don't know why and I can never remember which ones! It's not brand-specific.
If I want a dark color I go over the area lightly with black first, then smear the color into it so the blended color is what stains the paper. That accounts for the shadows in the boot picture in the Pastel Riot a couple of weeks ago.
Can't think of anything else I could add- I'm still very much in the learning/experimenting stages myself.
Looking forward to seeing more of these from you- fun, aren't they?

Kathryn Wilson
06-19-2003, 04:13 PM
Hi Sundiver and BlueJackal: I also tried this technique on an oil pastel and had fairly poor results. I used a painting I was not happy with and glad I did. But, until I satisfy my curiosity about this technique, I will persevere. I love the effect.

Here was my experiment and maybe you can tell me where I went wrong. The OP was on a gessoed board, the ink I put on may have been too thick, and I let it dry overnight. Next day I had a hard time getting it off without gouging into the OP's and exposing the white gesso. I just could not find the right tool. The only object I found that worked fairly well was a small bendable piece of plastic, but I found the more I worked at it the more the plastic was burnishing the ink.

Will continue to report my experiments on this most interesting technique. Thanks, Sundiver and BlueJackal, for sharing your results.

sundiver
06-19-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by kyle
Hi Sundiver and BlueJackal: I also tried this technique on an oil pastel and had fairly poor results. I used a painting I was not happy with and glad I did. But, until I satisfy my curiosity about this technique, I will persevere. I love the effect.

Here was my experiment and maybe you can tell me where I went wrong. The OP was on a gessoed board, the ink I put on may have been too thick, and I let it dry overnight. Next day I had a hard time getting it off without gouging into the OP's and exposing the white gesso. I just could not find the right tool. The only object I found that worked fairly well was a small bendable piece of plastic, but I found the more I worked at it the more the plastic was burnishing the ink.

Will continue to report my experiments on this most interesting technique. Thanks, Sundiver and BlueJackal, for sharing your results.

I think the gesso might be the problem. It doesn't stain well- something I like when I'm doing ordinary sgraffito with oil pastels.
I never have the patience to leave the ink on very long; maybe that's a good thing and I didn't realise it.

BlueJackal
06-20-2003, 02:42 PM
The painting I did was on 11x14 vellum bristol. After inking, I let it sit for a bit to dry until it was only slightly tacky in a few spots. It took me a good hour to do the scratching, starting with one fruit and going to another. When I started it was very easy, but it became slowly more difficult over time to cratch without simple flaking the ink or having to dig too deep. I would try using a bit less ink, perhaps diluting it a little (Not sure if this really help, but it certainly may, lol), and not letting it dry so long.

Hope that helps. I'm going to try and do another of these (though a bit smaller this time) today if I get time.

Kathryn Wilson
06-20-2003, 03:52 PM
Ya just gotta keep experimenting - will try thinning the ink and not letting it dry the next time. I really think this new technique of yours, Sundiver, is well worth working at.

Mo.
06-20-2003, 08:29 PM
Kat... what happened to your pic?:D

Kathryn Wilson
06-20-2003, 08:45 PM
I didn't upload a picture of this disaster - I couldn't even get all the ink off. I think we all decided I let it dry too long.

Mo, you have been a busy bee this afternoon - don't wear yourself out!

Just uploaded a floral - my first - that one you can have a gander at.

sundiver
06-22-2003, 03:41 PM
You know, I usually do this on manilla tag, although I believe I've done it on vellum also. The manilla tag is almost shiny, has no tooth at all. I tought my grade 8's to do this with funky self-portraits, and they come out well as long as they don't make the ink too thick (it's ok if you can still see the image underneath). They dry it with a hair dryer then go at it immediately, but sometimes class is over and they have to wait till next day: no problem.
So maybe your surface has too much tooth? The manilla tag is not labelled acid-free, so may only last 20 years instead of fifty lol.
Also, when I started them doing it in class I had old ink, and it didn't work very well until I got some new stuff.

Kathryn Wilson
06-22-2003, 05:34 PM
Ahhh - I used old ink too and it was way too thick. That was probaby the problem. Thanks for the info!

Dyin
06-24-2003, 10:36 AM
Hey, just wanted to share some news from The Pastel Journal...I wrote asking if they were considering allowing Oil Pastels in their annual pastel competition and got a reply that they will be holding a seperate competition just for OPs! Said it was still in the planning stage and they would print the details in an upcoming edition...

Mo.
06-24-2003, 07:54 PM
That's good news, is this an international magazine?

Dyin
06-24-2003, 07:58 PM
they have subscription prices for outside the US, so I am guessing so...they have a really top quality competition for soft pastels every year...and no shipping...it's all slides...here's their website...
http://www.pasteljournal.com/

Cinderella
06-25-2003, 02:01 AM
Dear E-J,
Thank you so much for the link. I was able to see that out of three divisions of oil pastels, mine are rated the lowest. My serious question concerning a decision with a tight budget in mind is: How different is it to work with the name brands you use and which are professional grade vs Cray-Pas Expressionist Oil Pastel? What I am experiencing (I am new to oil pastels) is an inability to blend well, waxy "build up", and lack of realism I am desiring to create. Is the fact I have 25 colors to choose from an issue? (portrait needing ample flesh tones) or, is it that I am expecting the medium to do something it wasn't intended to do? I blew hot air on my paper tonight with a blow dryer. It helped some. I cannot create shadow the way I want. I just plain don't understand how I can do better. Is it my materials? Are the top of the line oil pastels like "painting" with "cream" instead of "wax?" If so, I think that I am interested in making the purchase. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my questions...............I am new to this site and art. Cinderella

sundiver
06-25-2003, 09:30 PM
The quality makes a HUGH difference. The Cray-Pas professional grade are called "Specialist". I haven't tried them, just Holbein Artist-grade and Caran D'Ache.
I've never thought of heating the paper up; more likely to put it in the freezer for a few minutes!

Dyin
06-25-2003, 09:42 PM
Sundiver...how different are the Holbeins from the Caran d'Ache? I have those and Senneliers...just spent the afternoon figuring out how to get the Senneliers to do what I wanted...I found the Caran Neopastels much easier to blend with a finger or cotton swab but couldn't use a tool with them (on velour) but the Senneliers will take a rubber tool nicely...their pigments are so rich, a little goes a looooong way. I'm using pastel board and it is so different working on it. A lot of playing here with different supports...
Cinderella...I'd definately recommend the Neopastels...there's still a learning curve but they are way better than the cheaper ones...try different supports too...we're all learning here...

Cinderella
06-25-2003, 10:02 PM
Dear Dyin and Sundiver,
Thanks for your replies. I will look into Neopastels. Last night after I posted my questions, I took to the illustration board I had lightly primed for acrylic painting. I used my cheap brand of OP and went to war. I ended my sketch late and got to bed by 4 am. I couldn't let go. I am beginning to see the richness and vibrancy to using oils. Perhaps I am also accepting the "style" of work I am and am not able to express. The primed illustration board measures 10" x 15". The sketch includes three figures. A mother, father, and baby. Am I expecting too much to want the amount of detail one would need for this kind of layout? Would larger objects, subtle landscapes, abstract peices be more in line with what this medium is designed for? I can see a single portrait on this size board lending itself to more versatility and ease - re: detailing!!! I did, however, find the medium very forgiving when first struggling to find the right angles, etc. Due to the main and first layer to include flesh tones.......there was a lot of smearing going on. When my confidence is high enough, I will post the work for feedback. Thanks again, Cinderella

Dyin
06-25-2003, 10:16 PM
3 figures in 10x15 would be a real challenge if you want every single detail...I did a portrait...just the head mostly on 91/2 x 13 velour paper and got really good detail...you can also use prismacolor pencils for little details, although with the Neopastels I didn't have to as long as I had a sharp edge...just takes a little nick to get one. The Senneliers may be a bit more of a challenge for lines and such. Try different tools too...especially when you get the better OPs. Some wipe it right off, others blend well and I used my finger to blend most of it. I think once you get the hang of it that it is very forgiving...you can scrape places, light will cover dark if you want and then there's always using solvents with it too...have fun...we'd love to see what you do!

Cinderella
06-25-2003, 10:22 PM
Dear Dyin,
We are on-line real time it appears!!! How nice. I called both art stores in my area and they do not carry the brands mentioned. I will order on-line and wait...............(don't want to)
Thanks for the encouragement and feedback re: details. Good read. Take Care...........Hope to share soon. Cinderella

sundiver
06-25-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Dyin
Sundiver...how different are the Holbeins from the Caran d'Ache?

They are similar but a bit softer, I think. The company claims that when being applied they "feel like a soft pastel", and there's some truth to that. I like the opacity. Haven't tried Sennelliers yet.


cinderella, I think you just have to mess around with them for a while to see what they can do for you. I've seen o.p. work online that is photorealistic, impressionistic, you name it.
We're all learning this stuff together - it would be nice if an "expert" came along to advise us, but we've still come a long way in a few months by experimenting and sharing. Please post your efforts if you can- the Weekly Sketches thread is a great place to do that. I look forward to hearing your observations!:)

Dyin
06-25-2003, 11:27 PM
Thanks, Sundiver...will have to wait a bit before the Holbeins as I got complete sets in the other two...gotta justify it by using up some of these.
Cinderella...had to wait for mine too...was worth it. Finding that you just have to play a lot, but that's what makes it so much fun! Really, don't be shy about posting...everyone is at different stages and is willing to help or just ooh and ahh.

artbabe21
06-25-2003, 11:38 PM
thanks for all this great information...it looks like I can't tolerate the pastel pencils very well w/o looking like the long ranger with the mask thing going on(not breathing too well & being hot), gloves, and that dang easel, what I liked about them was that it was on the table like drawing....which brings me to ....you must all do that as well since there IS no dust.......well, I am gonna try them & the consensus for me seems to be the Cran D'Ache which are MORE expensive than the whole tin of 60 pastel pencils I will have to sell!! :eek:

tonight I played with some student grade oil pastels and was amazed I could actually do something with them...that perked my interest! BUT......I had this problem with those FAT ENDS....do you slice them down like the soft pastel people do with their sticks? I wanted to have a point for the face features I was drawing/painting....:D

thanks for ALL this great info...it was worth the read.....you're all the BEST!

Dyin
06-25-2003, 11:54 PM
Hey, Cathleen, you can shave them...I roll them around the bottom side til they get dull and it just takes a little nick to get a pointed spot, so you don't have to waste much. I work on the table or a little table top easel that you use to display artwork usually. Also remember that you can use pencil for fine details too..I played around and Prismacolor works well, but found I don't have to use it, just takes some practice with getting the right touch for a fine line. You'll be amazed at the difference from the cheaper OPs...

artbabe21
06-26-2003, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Dyin
Hey, Cathleen, you can shave them...

Also remember that you can use pencil for fine details too..I played around and Prismacolor works

Oh....:clap: I wouldn't have thought to use my prismacolors!! THANKS!

COOL!!!!!!!!! think I'll roll them around like you suggested rather than shave them.....that way I won't have to roll the shavings into a new color to save $$...LOL...btw, I sure like your enthusiasm!!

Dyin
06-26-2003, 12:09 AM
I think you have a little enthusiasm going too lol! There's probably all sorts of things that will work that we haven't tried yet...be sure to share when you find one!

Cinderella
06-27-2003, 03:24 AM
Dear Dyin and Sundiver,
This is my first sketch using oil pastels. I used a lightly textured sketch paper and Cray-Pas pastels. I am torn between taking baby oil to my "up until 4 am" at war sketch and leaving it alone. If I opt not to, please know it has a lot to be desired should I post it too. Thanks for your posts! Cinderella

Dyin
06-27-2003, 11:03 AM
oh, you DEFINATELY are going to love a better grade OP and support....this is really great for a first OP...if you can do this with the el cheapos then we are going to get to see some really nice stuff after you get the good stuff! Did the sketch paper load up with the pastels real quick? Having a tooth helps layer more. How long before you get those new OP's??? Am looking forward to seeing some really nice work from you...:clap:

sundiver
06-27-2003, 11:19 AM
Ditto to what Dyin said! If you do this well with student-grade o.p.s you will love the artist-grades! Well done!

Cinderella
06-27-2003, 05:45 PM
Dear Dyin and Sundiver,
Thanks for the reply. I ordered the OP you recommended: Caran D'Ache Neopastels Tues or Wed and the shipping schedule denotes a 5-7 day wait!!!!!!!!!!! Ouch, WAIT. Thanks for the direction on ordering. I will be re-reading a lot of posts on this site about surfaces, priming, "tools", eraser? mentioned somewhere, and oil mediums (turps) - I've never worked with before. I liked the recommendation I read about purchasing the blending and glazing medium for oil painting. Prismacolor pencils have been also mentioned. Do I look into the PENCIL, or the ART STIX, or the Sanford Nupastel Color Sticks???????? Re: Prismacolor As far as a reply I posted: I was using the blowdryer to heat both the paper and op to blend. I guess it does make more sense to ice the board and heat the op. Ooopps
So far, I have used the paper........yes, the "tooth" did help. Both sketches were spontaneuos not founded with any kind of sketch underneath. I was playing as I went. As a result, the dimensions on the second 4 am attempt are off. Also, the male figure looks like a GQ model sporting a soap opera guest appearance. Oh well, at least I conveyed an idea for another future picture. The second sketch also is done on illustration board with Gesso primed lightly once. It shows the "grain" through the op work like one would expect on wood. Veritcal lines as it were (how I applied the Gesso) Next time, I'll use paper and will be sad to not have the option to use baby oil. I did experiment with oil and yes, I will reserve it for board work, not paper. In conclusion, I want the versatility of trying out the oil medium or baby oil, but like the results of the paper sketch better as far as blending. Perhaps when I have more funds, I will be able to "have it all" on canvas. Bye for now!!!!! Cinderella PS I loved the idea of a thin wash of acrylic being used first. Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dyin
06-27-2003, 06:52 PM
Hey...you've been busy! I use the Prismacolor Pencils, but I imagine any you mentioned would work somehow. Baby oil??? Think I missed something....sounds intruiging tho...now you've found that you can manipulate surface for effects too...way to go!
This is a lovely idea for a future painting...it's very easy to get out of scale without a sketch. Try using the length of one part to gauge another...that helps too. When you get those OPs and get serious then just open a new thread in Pastel forum with your paintings...that way everyone will take a peek at them...not everyone comes to this thread unless they're searching for hints on OPs. You'll get some excellent feedback overall. It's really nice of the soft pastelists to share their board with us OP wannabes. And we learn a lot from their work...a lot of crossover techniques.
You can PM me too if you want...can tell you have the OP bug!

Mo.
06-27-2003, 07:18 PM
Hi Cinderella, good to see another artist using OP's, your enthusiasm is boiling over.:D... Keep playing with those pastels and experimenting you are doing good.


It's really nice of the soft pastelists to share their board with us OP wannabes. And we learn a lot from their work...a lot of crossover techniques.
You can PM me too if you want...can tell you have the OP bug!

Sue... This forum is a pastel forum, so it is open to all pastelist whether soft or oil, we are not using up the soft pastellists space in anyway at all, we have the right to be here as we are all pastellists, we just use the dust free version :D, thought I'd just clear up that little point.:)

Cinderella, do please post your paintings in a seperate thread as Dyin has suggested, you will get much better feedback, your work should not be hidden away in here, and you will have the opportunity to meet the rest of the folks, they are great bunch of artists........ I'd say the Pastel forum is the best of all for friendliness and encouragement and help.... no to mention fun.:D

cheers,
Mo.

Dyin
06-27-2003, 07:38 PM
point taken!:D

artbabe21
06-27-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Mo.
they are great bunch of artists........ I'd say the Pastel forum is the best of all for friendliness and encouragement and help.... no to mention fun.:D


DITTO THAT!!!!!!!!

Taminka
07-01-2003, 10:40 PM
A few months ago, when Mo did that fabulous rhododendron, I was so inspired by it I impulsively ordered a full set of Caran D'Ache OPs. (I never do anything by halves!)
At the time they were out of stock and I forgot all about it, but they turned up on my doorstep yesterday!

Oh God!! now that I've spent all that money I have to use them!!!
Scary - and they look so pretty all neat and clean in their tin :D

Unfortunately, my experiments will have to wait coz I have some other (watercolour wildlife) committments, but when I get to them I will need all your help!! I'll be back.

Minky

Dyin
07-01-2003, 10:53 PM
How exciting! But they look prettier on paper...so we'll be looking forward to seeing what you do!!! A thought....Don't forget to write down the numbers before you use them or you won't know which ones to order when you need to replace them...the numbers get lost quick. I do a color chart with it...one on dark support and one on white. Have fun!

orchid black
07-07-2003, 04:42 AM
The first medium I bought that had any colour to it was Pentel Oil Pastels. I didn't play with them at first, though, as they frightened me a bit... I'm more used to graphite and pen and ink. I have used them since, however, and I really like how they work. I have worked in Sennelier soft pastels and don't really know how to ship a finished painting without screwing it up... advice? Anyway, the point is I figure if I like the cheap ops, I'll love the more expensive ones. Just have to get some cash now...

I'll stop rambling now and go to bed......:cool:

Dyin
07-07-2003, 11:38 AM
Haven't shipped soft pastel work, just OP...matted and under glass...think it would be the same. I crisscrossed the glass with masking tape several times in case it broke (it didn't), wrapped in newspaper flat and then bubblewrap, put it in a box and then that in another box with paper and bubble wrap. UPS wouldn't ship large work under glass, so did post office...with insurance was about $25.

orchid black
07-07-2003, 03:08 PM
Thanks Dyin! That helps immensely!

Kathryn Wilson
07-16-2003, 07:21 PM
The following are exerpts from a thread in Pastel forum:



OP's - Foxy Loxy
Wanted to do something for the weekly thread, but again ran over time - still finding my way with OP's. This is from a ref. photo, on a 13 x 18 black mat board. Neopastels and gallery OP's. Approx. 3 hours. He was fun to do. Lots and lots of layers in the coat, but the camera just doesn't pick that up. Really liked working on this board - it had some bounce to it and I could really work on the coat quite quickly with long and, quick strokes of color. Got into trouble early on when I discovered (again!!!, when will I ever learn) that it's difficult to lay on lighter colors on top of darker colors.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2003/14941-fox4.JPG

Dyin
Senior Member

great fur texture, you'd never know you had trouble with the lights...nice alert look in the eye too! Doing really good with the OPs!!!!


Dyin : This is the first OP that I felt more comfortable in working with. I still need some advice on this piece even tho' I am done with it.

This was done on black - was that a mistake to start with? The layers were as follows: black, dark russet brown mixed with burnt umber, then a more reddish brown, medium red brown, then the last is a gold yellow. I could not get anything lighter to go over the top of those layers. I did not do any blending or melting down of the first layers - would this have helped later on?

How would you have done the lights in this case? Anybody?

I am attached the ref. photo for a comparison of the lights:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2003/14941-fox.jpg


Dyin
Senior Member

Black is definately harder to work on when you want really light highlights but it works nicely with this subject....what might help is doing a quick underpainting with white and burnt umber...then when you lay your reds they will glow more...where you want it really highlighted with the yellow, like the top of the nose and skull, then do the yellow after the white and tone it down with strategic spots of red. On the darkest darks if you add a little ultramarine they will darken even more...find this especially true on the OPs. The blue seems to make it more alive too...this is just how I would probably approach it...I am finding that I am using white just about as much as black anymore, as a pure color anyways....tinted greys and pinks, yellows and blues still give the illusion of white if a little white shows through....if you look at the white in the ref you'll see it's really only pure a touch by the nose, the lower part of the throat and below his eye...then just a few little strokes on his neck....don't get me wrong...I think you did a great job with this...just hoping to give you hints for your next one..if you think it's good advice...on animals it helps to remember the type of fur they have too...a fox has soft fur with a stiff guard hair over it on the main coat...you did that just right...on the face it's softer fur, so do it like soft hair...more in mass than individual hair...you also did really good on the direction of the hair...that makes a big difference in how realistic it is...I think it's great seeing these OPs...the more familiar you get with them the more confident you'll be....so more, more, more LOL!! I really was itching to get to your thread this morning...I just get a little extra thrill when I see OP on the subject!
Oh...one other question you had...I do do blending on the first layers if it's a mass area that will just be a base for top strokes...and I let that part sit a little bit while I work on other areas...hope I didn't go on too much....


kyle
Senior Member


Dyin : Yes, yes, yes - this is a big help! I wondered about working on black - it seemed to deaden the colors at first, but after layering that went away. I am looking at the painting as I am writing and it is so much more vibrant than the photo I posted. DH just could not get the light just right and it may be because of the black background.

I really do like working with OP's more and more and it sure does save the lungs. When I can't work in my studio with soft pastels because of the heat, I will be working with OP's in the house.

Another question on support - do you ever use OP's on sanded paper? I can't imagine that it would work well. Do you work on watercolor paper and a background of acrylic?? Like I said earlier, I enjoyed working on this board - it had just the right resiliance.

I hope some others will join into this thread and we can get a dialog going on how everyone works. I should review the OP thread once again so that I don't keep on asking the same questions - I apologize if I have.


Dark_Shades
Immortalized

dont know anything about Oils Kat........ only know what I like..... and this you have done a really great job with...... the fur looks so real...... more real than in the photo...... you got great texture there, and love the glint in the eye

.... well done
kyle
Senior Member



Thanks D_S -

jump into the pool and try your hand at OP's. Learn something new! Take on a challenge!



Dyin
Senior Member

First, I want to thank you for the kick in the pants you gave me this morning, Kyle...not been feeling so hot, didn't work on my WIP at all yesterday and only some background the day before...after discussing this I got the bug...the OP bug lol...been busy ever since..just redefining the arm colors but I'm happy! So big hug for that...
sanded paper...I did a few practice strokes on some Wallis and really was thrilled with the results...I just need to do the right subject for it as you don't want to blend so much there maybe, so I'm reserving it for something very strong...I'm trying as many supports as I can..I really hated the pastel board with the Senneliers and gave it up, but think it will work with the Neopastels esp. if I get some of that pumice to add to it...I'm using Fabriano Tizziano right now and really like it...might be close to the texture of your matboard maybe...and I have some left over clayboard from airbrushing...might be fun to do some scratching in it, but it's a very fine surface...keep experimenting is becoming my motto...
the thing I absolutely LOVE about the OPs is that vibrancy you were talking about....color just seems to sing and it doesn't dull out like so many other mediums I've tried. I think it's the oil effect. It's too bad it has to go under glass but to me I'm very happy it doesn' need varnishing, I would think texture would be lost then....
I sure wish I'd tried these OPs years ago...someone suggested it but they described them as crayon like and that turned me off...I don't have NEAR the energy as the ambition anymore but this site and all you pastelists have really got the snow off the chimney on this old house..... It just tickles me to see you getting excited too!


oh...forgot....the acrylic seems to me to make it not 'dry' so well, it's harder to work on a slick surface....but maybe something with added grit would work better...watercolor paper works well with solvents tho....


kyle
Senior Member



Dyin: Wow - I can feel that hug all the way from SF!

I just got done re-reading the Sticky on Oil Pastels - so much information there, but it seems there is no concensus on the support issue yet.

Has anyone tried something different in the last few weeks that really wow'ed them and with what OP's did you use?

I have 2 huge sheets of Wallis, but so afraid to go that large so early in this OP career - LOL. Going to go to Jerry's Artarama and see what they have lurking in the bins and will try the acrylic gesso. I would think you can color the gesso before you put it on to give your background some color???

There was also a big question mark on the blending medium to use. I bought turpenoid, but not sure how this will affect the acrylic surface. Dyin suggests Windsor Newton Blending Medium - anyone else try that yet?

Of the OP's being used it sounds like Sennelier's are a nose ahead of Caran d'ache - I bought a small set of the Neopastels and liked them so much more than my Gallery that I bought so along ago. But I had the darndest time getting the right colors and still not happy with the fox's coat color.

Mo: I know this probably should have gone at the end of the Sticky, but that thread seems to have died out. If you want to move this over, it's fine with me. I think OP's need to be nudged once in awhile - LOL.

I am excited about the OP's because I fear that I am becoming more and more sensitive to the soft pastels. I even bought masks and found I need to get used to them for they sure are uncomforable. My coughing afterwards was alarming me.


Dyin
Senior Member


LOL...then Barb must have joined in...I'm in Idaho lol! Just as long as you got it
Remember that the Senneliers are touchy (they're awesome but require a lighter touch) and try the terra cotta colors for your reds in the neopastels...I was surprised how good they were...
Oh....the new big Sennelier set has a clear OP...yep, clear...it renders things a little transparent and is an awesome blender as it doesn't muddy anything!!! #221 is the 'color' replacement number.
Be sure and ventilate using any medium...even 'odorless'...also I've found that washing your hands with Softsoap Antibacterial with moisturizers gets the oil off very well...and my hands look better than they ever had...Dawn cuts oil but is pretty harsh...I also use acrylic brushes for fine shading...they wash out great with the Dawn...teehee...see how I go on when I get all fired up?
Dima and Mo will have a lot to add to this...pretty soon you'll be adding stuff you're learning with this medium and we'll learn from you!!! btw...never touched an oil pastel til this spring...you'll learn quick!



kyle
Senior Member

Dyin: OMG - sorry about that - I had the west coast in my head. Is Idaho cool today?

Anyway, just got back from Jerry's toting Sennelier's pastel board/paper, W&N Oil Medium, a small canvas on board. Tried out the Sennelier's while I was there - I think I would only use them for the very last layer they are so soft (maybe it is the heat). I think it would depend on the painting I was doing - landscape vs. fox for instance. I think you could be very painterly with the Sennelier's, whereas with the fox I wanted very defined strokes.

Thanks for the tip on washing up - so far I haven't had a problem with stuff on my hands - I'm sure that will change.

How's the portrait coming. I haven't been commenting basically because I don't do portraits and would not have the foggiest idea of how to help or what to say. One day I will tackle a portrait, but I need to learn so much more control that I currently have, although I could go real contemporary - LOL.

Thanks Dyin!




Dyin
Senior Member

hah...just posted on the WIP...all the refinements in the arms and more background...all inspired by YOU today!!! Well, I guess 104.4 could be considered cool to someone maybe in a jungle somewhere lol...
ooooh, art supplies!!!! goosebumps again! The Senneliers take a bit of work...I thought I was insane to have got them when I first tried...but every stroke on my WIP is Sennelier...you'll get the feel for them. They stick is the word that comes to mind, so you just ease up on the pressure a bit. But I agree the neopastels are easier for thin lines...
portraits are just light and shadow...those things define everything...they sculpt the shape. It's more about carefully placing each exactly where it belongs...the nice thing about OPs is you have room to play...not much is permanent til you say it is. You need to forget it's a face or figure...it's all shapes formed with light....a good basic sketch is important for placement of the features but besides the eye, the nostril and the inside of the lip, there are no hard lines and those are soft too. Shoot...when you're ready just pick part of the face instead of the whole thing...a cheek, a chin, a nose...makes it easier.
Now go have fun with those new supplies!!!



Mo.
WC! Guide

Kat your foxy Loxy is great... are you hooked on the OP's
Like the fur texture, looks like you've done lots of little strokes there...I've worked on black with op's and love it, found no problem at all with the highlights, the hawk I did, and the Rhodies were both on black, but my method is to lay in a wash of colour first of all using turps or liquin, I don't like op's over acrylics, tried that on my last painting and it's still not dry... you had problems there too Sue if I remember. If I'm working on Watercolour paper I will lay in a wash with watercolours haven't tried gouache yet, but intend to, then apply the pastels over.... where I know there will be a very light area I avoid putting any darks there... With the swan I hardly used white at all, I made the shadows deeper to make the highlights lighter... we are all still learning here, me especially and a lot is by trail and error, it's great to share our experiences and learn from each other too.

I think it would be good to put this thread there or a copy of some parts of it, I will have to ask Carly to do that, I can't move threads sorry,... but what you could do, is copy your posts, and re-post in the OP sticky, the beauty of that thread is that it will always be there, this one could eventually become lost in the multitudes of threads out there... Sue you have given so much good info here it would be shame to lose it.

Mo.

Dyin
07-16-2003, 07:28 PM
Hey, Kyle...great job of copy and paste lol!!! I bumped up Mo's swan on the board...wowza!!! You should go check out some of her OPs....just go to her profile and check out threads started by Mo....I'm going to do this with everyone here...being a relative newbie I've missed a lot!!!
Mo...I bet your gallery is going to be very successful! Have you thought that maybe Pastel Journal might be interested in a story on how you are setting it up? I know we'd all love to see the process....

Mo.
07-16-2003, 07:34 PM
Excellent job Kat... welll done, now we have the info in two places, when your original thread dies back, this one will be here for all time

Hey Sue, you are making me blush now.... Could you PM me about the Pastel Journal... would like to know more, it's a mag we don't get here.. Thanks.

This is Brill!

Kathryn Wilson
07-16-2003, 07:41 PM
Mo & Dyin: Was just sitting here thinking about why the oils don't do well on acrylic gesso - but if you think about it, you are laying oil on top of something that is plastic (if you want to call acrylic that), therefore, the oil would not have a base to be absorbed into to dry out.

Mo: How about an OP Project in the fall? It could be interesting and we might attract more people to using OP's - or at least trying them.

Dyin
07-16-2003, 07:49 PM
Yeah...YEAH!! After you get settled down with your gallery, Mo! Good idea, Kyle;) I want to enter lots of projects but being so slow have ages before I can...but I'd drop whatever for a good OP project....:D

Mo.
07-18-2003, 04:21 PM
Kat you are probably so right, although it was only a very thin wash of acrylics, but this is how we learn I guess... wouldn't use it again that's for sure.

An Op's project hey? You pre- empted me I've already been thinking along those lines , but it will have to be after my hols in September.... around mid September okay?

Should be fun! :D

Kathryn Wilson
07-18-2003, 04:24 PM
We are taking our "hols" in September too. Mid to late I think, but nothing is set in stone yet.

Dyin
07-18-2003, 04:28 PM
I'm IN!!!! Love how you call it hols...we have one coming but nothing planned yet...a project for OPs is great...can't wait to see what you come up with! btw...on this Fabriano...it soaks the oil up and it gets pretty stiff pretty fast...and doing the wall, I've noticed that as it 'dries' the undercolor affects it more...this is SO fun experimenting, even if it IS slow!

Dyin
07-18-2003, 04:29 PM
oh...forgot to say that this is one tough paper...it doesn't seem to ever overload and takes scraping...you name it! I LIKE this one!

Mo.
07-18-2003, 09:58 PM
Sue ...Fabriano... tell me more, not used this one before. where can I get it?

Dyin
07-19-2003, 12:14 AM
Fabriano Tiziano...got it at Dakota Art Pastels...
www.dakotapastels.com
How I got turned on to it was a piece of it inserted in Pastel Journal for advertisement...
here's how Dakota describes it...available in 30 sheet pads of soft colors and Grey tones (I got the grey). It's 40 % rag paper weighing 160 gm with similar working characteristics to Canson Mi-Teintes...I don't know about that...but it sure is taking a beating with me! Only comes in 2 sizes...8x11 inches at $14 US or 11 x16 inches...$22 US. Hope this helps your slip and slide problems!

Mo.
07-19-2003, 07:39 PM
Thanks Sue... pretty expensive stuff... is that per sheet or per pad? If per pad... then not so bad.... have had a ball today.. been practising some new techniques..... working on one now, quite thrilled at the moment on how it's developing.. nowt serious, just messing around... will post when finished.

editing here to say.....

I must get a new keyboard... this one is skipping letters. :D... full of crumbs no doubt... have to keep coming back to edit. :D

Dyin
07-19-2003, 07:50 PM
oh...per PAD...tho I have bought things at $10 for a sheet before...this is more reasonable...can't wait to see what you did today...you sound enthusiastic again!!!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

Mo.
07-19-2003, 08:35 PM
Yes I am well sort of... hope I don't mess it up now. :D.. per pad sounds much better.. LOL!

Kathryn Wilson
07-23-2003, 06:33 PM
Posting of a close-up OP done for the Pastel Riot - discovered a new technique for me and a new support to work on. I was looking for something to do this project on and grabbed a piece of hot press illustration board that is very smooth to the touch. Was not sure how the OP's would react.

They go on very well, blend with each other very well, does not take huge amounts of layers. Therefore I tried this technique called sgraffito with a dull kitchen knife. Gives it good texture and shows the layers underneath. This was totally by accident but it is fun to do.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jul-2003/14941-green-cherries-2.jpg

Dyin
07-23-2003, 06:47 PM
Kat...it's too cool!!!:cool: Isn't it great all the different ways to approach things with this medium???? I'm excited...doing the Pastel Riot on a pastel board...put a plain acrylic background and am letting the OPs just slip and slide like they want to...and I'm wiping back areas...so far a lot of fun!!!! Thanks for sharing:D

Dyin
07-31-2003, 11:12 AM
Do NOT use Sennelier's oil pastel fixative....luckily I did it on a throwaway piece....it wouldn't pump easily and disolved a spot where it got thick and it did this horrid shiny surface on ONLY the OPs...the untouched paper stayed matt....UGLY!!!!!!!!!! I'd gotten it to give it a chance so maybe wouldn't have to put behind glass...too dusty around here not to. And even tho I did it outside and waited for it to evaporate, the smell inside, even tho it was only in for a minute to inspect, is STILL strong...So fair warning!!!!!!!

Kathryn Wilson
07-31-2003, 11:24 AM
If you use Sennelier's pastel sanded paper, do not go anywhere near it with water or watercolors. It is water soluble.

Mo.
07-31-2003, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the heads up Sue and Kat, I've never used fixative on OP's before, don't think I will in the future either...

Kat I discovered that about sanded paper some time ago when using soft pastels, had a painting that wasn't turning out right, tried to brush it off as much as I could, then promptly spilt a cup of coffee over it, it just dissolved in front of my eyes... I couldn't believe it.... I was left with this messy piece of white shiny board. :D:D

Dyin
07-31-2003, 01:51 PM
geez, Mo...you ARE a klutz LOL LOL LOL!!! Of course, I'D never do anything that clumsy...snork! That's one way to get rid of something that doesn't work...has anyone tried Wallis sanded for Op's yet?? Mine is pure bright white and haven't done anything I want a white surface for yet...and I knew you couldn't turp or anything on sanded...but I tested a sampler piece to find out...:evil: :p

sundiver
08-09-2003, 11:36 AM
Well, I finally got myself some Sennelliers, plus a set of 48 Caran D'Aches, so now I can compare them.
I got about 15 Sennelliers, individually. I tested them on a scrap of paper before buying, and rejected quite a few that weren,t very opaque. They just seemed like much oilier versions of the cheapies! Others were more opaque.
At first scribble, the Sennelliers are the softest and slipperiest, the Caran D'Aches waxiest ( I think they go on quite well), and the Holbeins driest and behave closest to a soft pastel (without the dust!).
I now have lots of colors and can't use that as an excuse any more. I haven't had time to properly use them yet but will keep you posted.

Dyin
08-09-2003, 11:41 AM
alright! I actually like the transparent Senneliers...they're lovely for a glazed effect....oh, I'm jealous lol! Wish I could afford some Holbeins...put all my $ in the other two!!! the Senneliers are soft and slick...but to my mind the richest pigmented...good wow factor..good colors in the Holbeins???? do tell....:D

lucidancer
08-19-2003, 05:41 AM
hi everyone,

This thread has been very helpful for me. Lately I've been experimenting with mediums. I do colored pencil work, mostly for portraits. I've started doing surrealism and fantasy work, and wanted a more lively medium. I'm currently painting with oils and acrylics, but love the control of the pencils.
....... I'm rambling, but what I'm getting to is that I believe soft oil pastels could be the in between medium that I'm looking for. I do like the rich unbroken color look. Most of the pastel pictures I've seen are granular, and not smooth, not blended well.

Some people here have mentioned blending with turpentine or oils, etc. I'm not sure exactly how to go about this. Does anyone have more info, or perhaps provide a picture of a blended pastel? Thanks

Dyin
08-19-2003, 11:38 AM
Hi lucidancer and welcome to the Pastel forum....using turp is fairly easy..you can put a little OP into a dish with turp and apply with a brush for a watercolor look, or you can apply the OPs in the area you want and then add turpentine with a brush or you can just apply the turp to your support and then add the ops...takes some experimenting to see which approach you like...maybe someone has a good mixed one to give you a link to...hope you'll show us your experiments!

lucidancer
08-19-2003, 08:11 PM
Dyin,
thanks for replying so fast, although I kind of expected that from you since you're so dedicated in this thread. I haven't even bought the pastels yet, but I'm thinking about Senneliers. My idea was that I could lay down the color on the board that I'm using, then apply the turpentine and smudge it with a napkin. I don't like brush strokes (usually). I think I might read the links about the health issues, not sure if I can get them on my skin, etc. I'll definantly give these a try. I'm use to getting a photo realistic look from my Prismacolors (they proved to be time consuming and hard to blend at times). Hopefully I can get similar results with op.

Dyin
08-19-2003, 08:30 PM
The Senneliers are a bit tricky to work with, but lovely pigmentation...Mo does the turp effect a bit more than I, with lovely results....Kat's had some luck there too...I do better with a rubber cuticle pusher...and a small brush, I put the OP on the tip and apply it just where I want it...then I can lightly brush a soft sort of glaze over it with the brush...doesn't leave brush marks...but has to be a VERY light touch...I'll be getting some Holbeins in about a month, after vacation, I hear they are pretty good and have 5 shades of each color...

you made me laugh about the dedication part :p could be I just spend too much time at the puter lol!

I'd get a small starter set and make sure you like the effects...and I'll be for sure spouting what I think of the Holbeins when I get them:D

Dyin
08-19-2003, 08:35 PM
hey...check out the thread...help with ops....by BeyondTheNineSquares...Mo just gave a lot of her info on this exact thing!

Kathryn Wilson
08-19-2003, 08:36 PM
Hi: I just did two oil pastel studies - they are posted in the Weekly Thread.

The first one is on canvas board which I will not use again. But I did use turpenoid. I dipped the oil pastel into turpenoid if I wanted it real soft and juicy. If I wanted a thin line (who me??), I used a brush dipped into turpenoid and then brushed across the pastel.

The second one is on illustration board. I used watercolor to "draw" in the shapes, then filled the shapes with oil pastels, and then used turpenoid to make a wash. I let that dry and layered pastels on top of each other, with a last brushing of the white oil pastel stick over everything. It sure gave it a different look and the camera did not pick it up too well.

Just play with the OP's and see how many ways you can work with them.

BlueJackal
08-22-2003, 02:57 PM
Well, I haven't posted for some time, but I haven't died yet. I'm still in love with OP's, and while I'm hardly an 'artist' yet, I'm trying out everything I can think of with my OP's and trying them on every surface they'll stick to :)

Unfortunately, I don't have much money, so I've only got student quality OP's, but I have three different brands, and it's fun finding the subtle differences in brands and then using the advantages of each.

I'll have to post some stuff here later. Maybe this evening. I'm glad this thread is still alive!

jramoyo
08-23-2003, 02:56 PM
wow, thanks to the info guys. i never taught that there are alot of available brands out there; there aren't much brand options here so i've no choice but to use sakura craypas.

Dyin
08-23-2003, 04:05 PM
I would think you could do an order from Dick Blick or Dakota Art pastel...and btw...welcome to the pastel forum!!!

flower
08-25-2003, 03:45 PM
Hi everyone,

Was at my painting class on Saturday, actually i´m alone so i can´t really call it a class, i started off with pastels in the first class but due to the fixative had to change to oil pastels, my teacher gave me some tips on preparing paper so i thought i´d give them on to you in case anyone would like to try......................

when he´s preparing paper, cardboard etc. he always uses the same amount of Gesso with the same amount of distilled water, mix it and then put in Gouache, colour of your choice, at the moment i´m using ochre, paynes grau, ultramine blue, i do some light ones and then darker. When you paint the paper or boards use a cheap synthetic roller used for decorating, 11 cm, and paint away, first one coat keep going in the same direction, then a second coat going in the other direction. When they are dry pile them up with something weighty on top and this will press the paper and stop it from rolling.


Another tip for blending, he used 100 per cent alcohol bought from the chemist.

He also used cotton cloths, old hankerchiefs etc for blending, leather strips and styropor.

Really love this thread, copied it all out so i can read it over again, since i had my 3 hours on saturday i´ve understood so much more about whats going on.........Great, Great, Great
(can´t do the hand clappiung LOL)

Dyin
08-25-2003, 03:57 PM
flower..thanks for putting that on this thread too...hate to have tips get lost in thread no man's land...that's interesting about the 100% alchohol for blending too...but what is styropor???
Please keep sharing...along with photos of your progress!

cjkelly
08-31-2003, 11:56 PM
This is a great thread (only just found it) and like so many others have said - I'm off to play with some OP's - the enthusiasm is quite infectious.

Just one question, and I'm sorry if I may have missed any info on this (my eyes were starting to glaze over after about an hour of reading this thread, so I may have missed it - mind you I was reading it late at night, so no reflection on the quality of info and comments!)

I'm wondering how the finished OP paintings are best stored before framing, and do they require the same framing procedures as for soft pastels? ie. double matt under glass?
I read with interest the comments about Sennelier fixitive and wonder if anyone has discovered an alternative to protecting the finished surface?

Thanks for a great thread, and I look forward to experimenting and reading more comments...

cj

Dyin
09-01-2003, 12:03 AM
Hey, CJ...always glad to inspire! Single mat under clear glass or acrylic is best...it does get a skin...I leave it sit a few days before framing...and then it's ok to touch as long as you don't push and smear it hard...if it's on acrylic gesso will take much longer...I know Dima varnished one piece but haven't tried it...I like the softness and glow as is...also for ones I'm not framing I take regular wax paper and create a sleeve for them...keeps them from getting dusty and I can stack them nice and neat and safe.
Please show us your results on a new thread!!

lucidancer
09-11-2003, 08:52 PM
I just want to say that I tried out some oil pastels last night for the first time. I went to the art store and bought two brands that were popular on this thread, Senneliers and Neopastels. I'm sure they'll take some time to get used to.

The Neopastels worked best with a light application, blended with turpentine.
The Senneliers worked best with a thick application and might be successfully blended in different ways (wet and dry)
I like the feel of both of them. I think I'll go shop for more of the senneliers and Neopastel pencils for fine details.

Thanks to everyone for reporting your opinions and knowledge here. :D

Dyin
09-13-2003, 12:33 AM
Hey, that's great!!! Haven't been to the board yet...just got back from vacation...hope you posted something you tried and eager to hear how you learn to use them...I have a set of Holbeins coming in hopefully on Wednesday...so will share what I think of them soon!

Luvy
09-23-2003, 02:28 PM
Glad this is here. I just ordered senniler oil pastels. I may need to reread this thread once I get them and understand what everyone is talking about LOL I have the book oil pastels for the serious beginner. So hoping that will help me get started.
Thanks to WC and all you guys I might learn how to use these too *S*

Dyin
09-23-2003, 02:34 PM
Luvy...that's great!!! Now...don't expect them to work like the softies!!! go really lightly at first and build up...the Senneliers are super strong pigmented and as you'll find....very slippery!!! Anytime you need help holler...and there is tons of info here too...woohoo...more fun OPs in the works!!

Dyin
09-23-2003, 04:26 PM
Just got some info on Holbein OPs...the website is
www.holbeinhk.com
US toll free is 1-888-HOLBEIN
Canadian toll free is 1-800-456-4622

they are the sole distributors here in the US, they do not sell direct but can give info on who sells, etc...they have color charts by request...
the lady said that Holbeins have DIFFERENT brand names in Europe...by emailing to them on their website you can ask and they can find the brand name and direct you to the nearest place to buy them...and they also know a place here in the US that will mail smaller sets and individuals at a very reasonable price to Europe etc and can give you that info also...hope this helps....

Luvy
09-23-2003, 05:33 PM
Oh geesh are senniler water based? I never knew to look to find out. Now I know and it's too late to change the order. Oh well. *S*

Dyin
09-23-2003, 05:57 PM
no...not water based, oil based....

CarlyHardy
09-30-2003, 02:53 PM
Llis, moving this thread to the new library. Do you have it linked in the index? Let's keep it sticky until its linked! Don't want to lose it...then help me to remember to delete this post also!
Thanks
carly

nativeway
10-29-2003, 03:59 PM
I ask for info and boy I got it thank you all. I've been using soft pastels for sometime now and I felt like I needed to expand my use of media and understand oil pastels. I have sold a few paintings and I've had these oils way too long.

Thanks again,
God Bless,

Native way

majestaero
11-09-2003, 09:10 PM
I'm really new to this site (only browsed so far!), so I'm quite excited to find a thread on oil pastels! I've always felt pretty lonely as it seems oil pastelists are pretty few and far between, so it's nice to see so many!

I've been using them for years now --grew up on Grumbachers, actually, and still have my original set (well, what's left of them!). I still have a number of Talens Panda pastels -- they're my favourite, but I haven't been able to find them recently!:( This has forced me to try the Cray-Pas Specialist (supposed to be artist's quality), which I find don't have the same intensity, and more recently the artist's quality Holbein. I love the texture of the Holbein, but I'm disappointed with the intensity (or lack thereof!) of the colour. I didn't know Sennelier made oil pastels -- will have to have a look for them!

For grounds, I've been using the Canson Mi-Tientes for years now, so I'm not happy to hear that they may degrade over time! My first pastels -- about twenty years old now -- still look great though, so I'm hoping they at least last my lifetime.

Surprised to hear mention of fixatives -- only tried that once, and it left a nasty film. Again, they seem to last quite well without. I don't think they require a fixative as they don't move (not once I'm finished with them, anyway!) so I'd be more interested if they do contribute to the conservation aspect!

Anyway, sorry to babble on! I just think it's so cool to find so many other people who use OPs! This site is so huge, I may never get away from this thread!

L.

nativeway
12-07-2003, 11:01 AM
Thanks Dick.

This has been so helpful I just have to keep coming back to learn more. Everyone has been generous with info.
Nativeway

Dyin
12-10-2003, 05:53 PM
majestaero - just saw your post...oh, but you HAVE to get away from this thread!!! And post some of your OPs for us to see in the regular pastel forum...we would LOVE some more OP artists to show! Yeah, I guess I could agree on the intensity of the Holbeins but the deeper tones seem to be fairly saturated. The Senneliers lay really nice on top of the Holbeins though, for a nice added punch. Both Dick Blick and Dakota Art pastels sell Senneliers. And ship to Canada. Please...don't be a lonely OPer anymore...

:p

come join us!

liz vache
01-12-2004, 10:37 PM
I am new to this type of site.
I have been trying to find info on oil pastels for a while and happened upon this site and discussion. It's great! Think I will make my own sandpaper-like gesso (toned) and brush onto heavy paper, Mayfair. The try the oil pastels.

Dyin
01-13-2004, 01:56 AM
Liz, oh...please do!!! And please come post on the main pastel forum too...we'd love to see how it goes for you. And welcome to WC and the pastel forum!!!!

siberart
03-15-2004, 08:40 PM
I am new to this site, and new to oil pastels. I too find little info about the medium, which I truly enjoy using. I find this forum very informative. However, not having read all the posts, I wish to add the following, and apologize if it duplicates any information.

One interesting thing I found about oil pastels, is the fact that Picasso asked Sennelier to make them for him. They also say the oil pastel will not change color over the years as they contain no oxide.

I use Sennelier, Holbein, and the student grade Cray-Pas or Pentel. Sennelier has a wonderful buttery consistency and blends very well. Holbein is harder. Cray-Pas or Pentel are very hard. They all have their place in the mix.

I use Weber Turpenoid Natural to make an initial wash, depending on the painting of course. This does take a few days to settle down and then I start my painting.

Sennelier recommends painting on gessoed surfaces. My first painting was on gessoed mat board, and I continue to use this surface.

Of course they never dry completely and have to be covered with glass (not touching). I find them very durable and if the painting gets scratched or nicked before I frame them, it is easy to repair.

Also - a personal choice to get a fine line or point on the painting. I use makeup pencils (eyebrow/lipliner) also. I use so little that I don't believe it will do any harm but it sure does give me more control when I need a fine line.

siberart
03-15-2004, 08:54 PM
Hey, just wanted to share some news from The Pastel Journal...I wrote asking if they were considering allowing Oil Pastels in their annual pastel competition and got a reply that they will be holding a seperate competition just for OPs! Said it was still in the planning stage and they would print the details in an upcoming edition...

I am finding so much out from this forum!! Oil Pastelists are kinda like a wierd family member kept outta sight! You know he/she is there but really don't want to acknowledge their presence...:(

I wrote a pastel organization in Washington state to see if I could join. They never wrote back.

Kathryn Wilson
03-16-2004, 01:10 PM
Hi Pat! Another WC member alerted me that you had posted in the Library Archive - sorry we didn't back to you sooner!

There are a fair amount of oil pastelists on WC and in particular the Pastel Forum. I myself have used OP's, with limited success, but continue to enjoy using them from time-to-time. I have a couple of hints for you - Sennelier has put out a line of paper pads just for oil pastels - they come in two sizes - and they are available on the on-line catalogs if you order that way. Not sure what sources you have in Alaska for oil pastel supplies.

Another hint is that I found a set of oil color pencils on Ebay and tried them out - they are a wonderful addition to any OP'ers materials. I queried the company about the forumula and they said it was oil with a binder of wax (sound familiar?). They are made by Walnut Hollow out of Wisconsin - I also found them in our local craft supply stores, but they tend to be more expensive. They were developed to decorate unfinished wood craft pieces - but they work with my OP's really well.

Come post some of your OP paintings in the regular forum and say hello to everyone!

siberart
03-17-2004, 09:52 AM
Hi Pat! Another WC member alerted me that you had posted in the Library Archive - sorry we didn't back to you sooner!

Another hint is that I found a set of oil color pencils on Ebay and tried them out - they are a wonderful addition to any OP'ers materials. I queried the company about the forumula and they said it was oil with a binder of wax (sound familiar?). They are made by Walnut Hollow out of Wisconsin - I also found them in our local craft supply stores, but they tend to be more expensive. They were developed to decorate unfinished wood craft pieces - but they work with my OP's really well.

Come post some of your OP paintings in the regular forum and say hello to everyone!


Hi Kat, I am still trying to navigate the site! Just found your post. Thanks for the welcome and the hints. We have one art supply store, besides Michaels, and they really try hard, but are limited to stock. Internet shopping is very popular in Alaska to say the least.

I would love to post 2 of my op's - on this thread or the pastel one?

Kathryn Wilson
03-17-2004, 10:08 AM
Hi! Please post your OP's in the regular Pastel Forum - go to the Forum and on the upper left hand corner you will see a "button" that says "New Thread" - this will give you a pop-up window to put a title on the Thread and a description of your OP's. You then use the Manage Attachment menu on the bottom of the page under the description box. If you have problems with uploading your photos, let me know through a PM (Private message). Remember to keep your picture under 600 pixels which you can adjust in a photo manipulation program. WC will then create a "thumbnail" that appears on the Thread you created and people can click on to see the larger picture.

Michael might be a source for the pencils, but they may be expensive.

Looking forward to seeing your OP's!

hamsterdance
03-24-2004, 02:44 PM
oops. Already a sticky I see. Oh well. I'm going to add to it. :p

hamsterdance
03-24-2004, 04:12 PM
And now for my experience with the OP brands I use


Artist Grade Oil Pastel Brands

Holbein
Origin: Japan
Known Availability: Japan, North America
Color Range: 225 colors using the Munsell color system


Square sticks -smooth, glides easily on most any surface. Blends easily with fingers as well as with tortillion or stomp. Layers easily. Highest or 2nd highest pigment load of all the OP brands tried in my solvent tests. The wide range of values allows the most subtle blends of any brand. Tested with great results on the following surfaces - Fabriano watercolor paper, Ampersand Gessoboard, Ampersand Pastelboard, unprimed hardboard and acrylic-primed canvas. Did not work well on Ampersand Clayboard though - the clay surface sucks up most of liquid binder so unless the first mark is meant to be the last you will be fighting the surface to blend. Of all the OP's I've used this brand most closely mimics soft pastel.

When used with solvent I had to load up to thin enough to get a wash. These sticks are loaded with pigment.

The artist's quality Holbeins are unavailable (according to some WC members) in Europe and South America. Europe only has access to Holbein's student grade OPs. Unknown if S.A. has access to Holbeins of either quality. Note: if this situation has changed please post it.

Caran Darche
Origin: Switzerland
Known Availability: Europe, North America
Color Range: 96 colors

Round sticks. Creamier than Holbeins. Layers easily. Blends easily with fingers as well as with tortillion or stomp. Very dense pigmentation - sometimes topping even Holbein in solvent tests. Creamy texture allows very easy blending - moreso even than Holbein. Softens due to finger warmth with constant use or on hot days outdoors. Used with good results on all the above surfaces tested with Holbein. Works a little bit better with Clayboard though due to the extra liquid in the binder.

My solvent tests show these sticks are loaded with pigment. A lot of solvent had to be used to get a wash.

Sennelier
Origin: France
Known Availability: Europe, North America
Color Range: 120 colors + 12 Iridescents

Round lipstick shaped sticks. A jumbo size is also available for 36 colors. Does not layer easily. Very greasy/creamy texture allows very suble blends sometimes mimicing oil paints. Due to Sennelier's greasy nature some oil pastelists find them too slippery. Dense pigmentation - 3rd highest of all the brands I've tested in solvents. Used successfully on all surfaces tested. This is the only OP that works beautifully with Clayboard. Once the clay surface has sucked up the binder the surface becomes quite dry (unlike most Sennelier OP paintings which remain creamy/greasy). Scratchboard techiques are great with Senneliers - especially for wildlife art or drawing hair.

Solvent tests show it is only slightly behind Holbein and Caran Darche. However, Senneliers are unsurpassed in my experience for their ability to mimic oil paint when used either dry or with a solvent. Their greasy/oily nature takes getting used to but once done so there are some effects that can be achieved easier and better with them than any other brand.

Student Grade Oil Pastel Brands

Faber-Castell
Origin: Germany
Known Availability: Europe, North America
Color Range: 36 colors [matched to other products in FC's Goldfaber line]

Harder than Holbeins and not nearly so easy to blend as with artists grade OPs. Does not layer as easily either. Blending with a stomp can leave streaks showing pigment was pushed or pulled rather than a smooth blend. Blending with a finger or cloth gives better results but it will never look as good as with artist's grade OPs. A good student-grade considering the price (very affordable - under $15 for 36 colors at most places).

Solvent tests also confirm this is a student-grade OP. Pigmentation is thin. Washed out to very pale tint very fast.

Maimeri
Origin: Italy
Known Availability: Europe, North America
Color Range: 60 colors

Slightly harder than Faber-Castells. All the above limitations for FC's apply to Maimeri. My tests show these are NOT artist's quality oil pastels despite Maimeri's own claims and despite WC placing them in the Artists Quality category for their review section. The fact that they're priced cheap should also be a tip-off that these are not artist's grade oil pastels. Solvent tests show pigmentation is thin and washes out to a pale tint quickly. These are good student-grade oil pastels but don't buy the hype from Maimeri that they're artist grade.

Binny-Smith Portfolio
Origin: United States
Known Availability: North America
Color Range: 24 colors

These are by far my favorite student-grade oil pastels. Unlike any other oil pastel I've tried these are actually water-soluble. Pigmentation is also quite a bit higher than either of the preceding student-grade brands. They glide very smoothly. Blending is excellent - as good as with the artist quality OP's. It's a shame these are student-grade! If only a wider color range with a bit more pigment were loaded into each stick these OP's would run neck and neck with Holbeins as my favorite brand.

Washes are beautiful with the highest pigment load of all the student brands I've tested. Considering the price plus the fact that you use water as a solvent these oil pastels are a great buy.

Kathryn Wilson
03-24-2004, 04:34 PM
Excellent, excellent analysis of these brands! Thanks for taking the time to do that for us. I am really interested in those Portfolio's - where did you purchase them??

:clap:

hamsterdance
03-24-2004, 04:46 PM
Believe it or not Kyle you can get them at Dick Blick - and the 24 set is only $6.86! The 12 color set is $3.48.

Everything I wrote about the Portfolio's is true. For a student brand they have a high pigment load. I was pleasantly surprised. I had to really load up with the water to tell that they had less pigment than any of the 3 artists-grade OPs. Anyone who wants to try to experience artist-quality-esque OP's but can't afford the real thing? Well, Portfolios are probably the closest you'll ever get to the real deal. Holbein, Caran Darche and Sennelier could learn a thing or two from Binny-Smith's OP's.

John Elliot uses Binny-Smith's Portfolio OP's in the section of his book that demonstrates using OP's with a solvent. He too likes them and like me bemoans the fact that an artist's grade version is not available. Actually, if you check out Ch. 5 of his book you can see for yourself just how much pigment they have. Very nice.

hamsterdance
03-29-2004, 12:03 PM
As a test I'm currently creating a picture of a hummingbird using nothing but the student OP's Faber-Castell and Maimeri. I'd forgotten how difficult it is to work with student grade. Artist-grade does what I want from the moment the stick touches the surface but with these two student brands I'm having to fight, fight, fight to get it to work right. Blending in particular is quite difficult.

I finally gave up last night trying to get the kind of blend I want. There just isn't enough pigment and the binder for F-C and Maimeri is very stiff. I now think these student OP's have sub-par binder compared to the artist-grade too. I know no other way to account for the difference in my experience using them compared to Holbein, Sennelier and Caran Darche. The F-C and Maimeri actively resist my attempts to blend.

I'm going back to the artists grade after this. I get too frustrated using student quality. The more I work with these student grade OP's the more I am convinced no one should waste their time or money on them. Buy a small, high quality set of one of the artist grade OPs and then slowly add to it as needed. No one, especially beginners should have to fight their materials like this. If you really can not find or afford a small set of artist OPs then get the Portfolios. At least those blend as good as the artist quality OPs (just don't expect them to be loaded with pigment like the artist-grade).

Kathryn Wilson
03-29-2004, 12:16 PM
I am sooo glad that you posted re your efforts with student grade OP's. I have been saying right from the git-go that inexpensive OP's are not worth the effort or the money. OP's are difficult enough to learn how to use, without fighting with sub-standard materials. For newbies, it's a turn-off for going further with oil pastels. Buy the best that you can afford, even if it's only a few basic colors - you will be rewarded with accomplishment!

How do you compare these with the Portfolio - I would expect the Portfolio out performed these by quite a bit.

hamsterdance
03-29-2004, 12:29 PM
Well, I still would prefer beginners start with one of the 12 color sets of the artist grade OPs. But if you get a student brand then get Portfolio. They out-perform the F-C's and Maimeri's by a mile. At least I don't have to fight them to blend. They don't have a lot of pigment though (although it's more than the F-C's and Maimeri's).

FYI to beginners

Dick Blick sells the following artist grade OP's very affordably (well, except for the Holbeins...)

Caran Darche 12-color set in a tin for $17.69. (which equals $1.47 per stick)

Sennelier 12 color starter set in cardboard box for $12.98 ($1.08 per stick)

Holbein set of 25 in cardboard box for $47.99 ($1.92 per stick)

or get the trial set of Holbeins from Black Horse Art Supply - 3 primaries + b&w for $9 = $1.80 per stick



As you can see, not too much more (er, except for the Holbeins...*sigh*) than the price of student-grade F-C's and Maimeri but the quality is so much better it's a not even funny.

Khadres
03-29-2004, 10:49 PM
And now for my experience with the OP brands I use


Nice analysis. As it happens, I've recently seen the Portfolios in the auction lists on eBay....very inexpensive. Might be worth a shot for someone just trying them out.

All I have as yet (mail order being what it is) is a set of Expressionist and Mungyo Gallery. Thought I'd play around with them today a little, keeping in mind that they're not the real deal, of course. I did find the Mungyo ones to be a lot more pigmented than the Expressionist and they blend really well with a Prismacolor pencil as the blender. Otherwise....not so hot.

Can't wait to get my Neopastels, Senneliers, and Holbeins. I figure I can use the cheapos for quick undersketching, if nothing else.

gr8pets
03-30-2004, 04:34 PM
I got curious this weekend and bought some Portfolios to try (got them at Office Depot for about $9, set of 24). I almost wish I hadn't tried them.

They are positively YUMMY! They glide on like silk, and even have a nice smell. I don't know whether to paint with them or spread them on toast. And I love the pointed end!

Alas, I find it frustrating that they are not artist quality. That much is apparent in the lack of pigment and also (IMO) the slightly muddy colors. They don't seem to layer well either, but they are very smooth.

I did a test swatch and have it taped in a window at home. I'll pull it down this weekend and see how the colors have done in the sun all week.

They are wonderfully versatile though, and I recommend that anyone give them a whirl. Even if you have full sets of the artist grade OP's, these are really fun to try. I'm tempted to let my toddler play with them, but I'm a bit to selfish to share...Maybe I'll get him his own set. ;)

Christi

Dyin
03-31-2004, 01:52 AM
oh no....another pastel eater! :p hmmm...have an office depot but i AM trying to cut down on calories :evil: :p

majestaero
03-31-2004, 12:20 PM
Hey! I heard that! :eek: :D :D

Linda

Dyin
03-31-2004, 05:19 PM
Hey! I heard that! :eek: :D :D

Linda


lol lol lol.....don't you guys start sharing recipes now!!! :evil: :D Hey, can't remember...do you use Van Gogh's at all??? Someone was asking about them in the forum.

eileenclaire
04-02-2004, 08:56 PM
I am sooo glad that you posted re your efforts with student grade OP's. I have been saying right from the git-go that inexpensive OP's are not worth the effort or the money. OP's are difficult enough to learn how to use, without fighting with sub-standard materials. For newbies, it's a turn-off for going further with oil pastels. Buy the best that you can afford, even if it's only a few basic colors - you will be rewarded with accomplishment!



I'm not sure if I feel the same way about this. I started out with the Cray Pas Expressionist and was perfectly happy with them. I think they're an excellent brand to start out with. My technique is probably different than others, so maybe that explains why I feel that way. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have tried ops if I had to invest a lot of money in them. Trying out a few artist colors wouldn't have cut it for me, I liked having all those colors at my fingertips.

What got me interested in the medium was seeing Sarah Theophilus's work. She does beautiful pet portraits, here's a link to her site:

http://www.petsinpastel.com/dog.htm

I emailed her asking what brand she used, and how she could get such detail (my kids used oil pastel and I didn't see how it was possible to get any kind of detail with them).

She graciously emailed me back:

Dear Eileen,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed the portraits, and very pleased to hear that your children use oil pastels. It is certainly a unique medium and wonderful to use. I enjoy using Cray Pas Expressionist oil pastels. They are by no means the 'best' or most expensive (typically, a box is about $15-25, whereas top quality pastels can be $2 each stick!), but they work well for my effects and are have good quality pigment. I also use a smudging stick (paper wrapped tightly to form a pencil shape) for working in the fine details. This is a wonderful tool and I highly recommend it. Otherwise one is apt to grow a few grey hairs trying to paint small spaces with a large, blunt pastel stick!!

Hope this helps. Many thanks again and happy pastelling to your children!

Kind Regards,
Sarah Theophilus


I was so surprised that she took the time to reply, and I bought the Expressionists and a tortillon, and here I am! As a matter of fact, I am going to email her now to thank her for inspiring me!

gr8pets
04-02-2004, 10:01 PM
Eileen,

She does great work! I can ~almost~ forgive the fact that she does not have a Dachshund on her site. :p

I'm tempted to go out now and buy some Expressionists after looking at her work. Wow!

Christi

Dyin
04-02-2004, 11:14 PM
wow...she nailed the chow! Boot's fur is almost exactly that color...and the swirls and texture are awesome! I'm glad you wrote her Eileen...to think you might never have been here sharing all those great portraits is sad.

Kathryn Wilson
04-03-2004, 06:48 AM
I'm not sure if I feel the same way about this. I started out with the Cray Pas Expressionist and was perfectly happy with them.

From what I've read, these are not the student grade of their line of OP's. I have tried them and like them every bit as much as the other artist grade pastels I have - and you are right, they are less expensive.

gr8pets
04-03-2004, 08:45 AM
The Expressionists are not student grade? Now I'm confused :confused: because I thought the Specialist line was the artist grade from Cray Pas.

I still may go get some today. I have three Specialists from open stock and don't like them. Maybe the Expressionists are different.

(Did I mention, my hubby says I have a sickness for buying too many art supplies) :D I got a shipment of stuff yesterday, and was trying to find a place to hide my big box that contained one sheet of Somerset Black Velvet. I put it in my shower and pulled the curtain, but then realized it would be just my luck if hubby thought to try out my new shower massage. :eek:

Christi

Kathryn Wilson
04-03-2004, 09:26 AM
Whups! I get these two confused - just looked it up - it is the Specialists that are the artist/professional grade - the ones that are square.

I tried the Expressionists and they are too waxy for me - not enough pigment to cover well. But it all depends on how you use them - and you seem to do very well with them.

Khadres
04-05-2004, 03:11 AM
(Did I mention, my hubby says I have a sickness for buying too many art supplies) :D I got a shipment of stuff yesterday, and was trying to find a place to hide my big box that contained one sheet of Somerset Black Velvet. I put it in my shower and pulled the curtain, but then realized it would be just my luck if hubby thought to try out my new shower massage. :eek:
Christi

I know my hub's thinking the same thing about me! Too bad! After all, we COULD be spending money on expensive clothes and hairdos and how would THAT be better? I don't need expensive clothes and hairdos since I don't party much these days and normal (read Walmart) is just find for me.

I got in the Senneliers and the 100 ct. Holbeins...can see I'll need to be adding to those Holbeins fairly soon since some of my fave colors weren't in the set! Also, I think I'd have rather had a smaller box for the Senneliers...I keep having trouble finding space to open it up! But they look lovely and enticing and I will be playing with them when I'm not working on May's project with softies.

Any tips on how to achieve DARK and LIGHT greatly appreciated!

Dyin
04-05-2004, 01:31 PM
Geez, Sooz..try the Holbeins...I really smoosh my strokes...and leave a bit on the support. For a dark try laying down some Indigo blue and then lay some burnt sienna over the top...don't be timid...I know you want to make those expensive babes last lol...but they really do last awhile. For light...use the lightest value...then you can take white and lighten it even more...and if you are using white over a very dark, definately press hard...or let it sit a tiny bit to firm up and then put more on. Hope that helps!

Khadres
04-05-2004, 01:46 PM
Well....actually, I think that's part of my problem...piling too MUCH on to where I'm winding up with this mess, like too much cake frosting! But I have found a use for the cheapos already....they make great blenders. Can't say I'm too crazy about finger blending, but then I don't do a lot of that in soft pastel either, tending to prefer blending with another color stick instead...works with these as well.

Just having a bit of a problem figuring out how to get solid contrasts yet. It'll come.

Kathryn Wilson
04-05-2004, 02:28 PM
Hi you oilies! Just reading through all the info passed out in the Oil Pastel workshop that I attended and thought I would add it here. Will link to this post in my regular thread on the workshop.

This is from information sheets provided by Sennelier:

Not made of mineral wax, or paraffin, but of a microcystalline wax that is entirely of carbon and hydrogen, derived from a petroleum base.
The Binder is made of non-drying chemically inert oils, which makes them non-yellowing and better adhesion characteristis.
All colors are made with 100% lightfast pigments.
Completely acid free; they never dry and will never crack.
Surface may be protected from particulates and dust by using Sennelier Oil Pastel Fixative.
120 lightfast colors available in both the La Grande and Petite pastels.


Supports:
Paper; canvas; cardboard, chipboard and cork; wood, plywood, masonite, ceramic, plaster, metal and plastic; glass; photograph prints.


Techniques I hadn't heard of before: may be sculpted with pre-heated palette knife; after heating oil pastel, adhere and inlay pigments, sand, sawdust, wood, paper, glass or metal into moist color.

Dyin
04-05-2004, 03:02 PM
do want to note the trouble I had with the fixative..it spits, as it's a pump bottle, and too much MELTS the work like turp...

Kathryn Wilson
04-05-2004, 03:10 PM
Dyin, it would be interesting to see what the manufacturer says about this problem since they recommend using it. Did you get in touch with them about it? Request a refund - :D

Khadres
04-05-2004, 06:37 PM
Geez, Sooz..try the Holbeins...I really smoosh my strokes...and leave a bit on the support. For a dark try laying down some Indigo blue and then lay some burnt sienna over the top...don't be timid...I know you want to make those expensive babes last lol...but they really do last awhile. For light...use the lightest value...then you can take white and lighten it even more...and if you are using white over a very dark, definately press hard...or let it sit a tiny bit to firm up and then put more on. Hope that helps!

(running in waving fistfuls of OPs with hair on end and eyes goggling, smears of color on shirt and nose) I think I'm gettin' it! It was that crappy PAPER again!

Jury's still out, but I grabbed some of Sassybird's paper (Stonehenge, I THINK) and I can actually see something happening without it looking like candle wax melted together! All is not lost! And it does very well on the Colourfix, so far. Feel like a kid in a candy factory with a no limit coupon now!
:D

gr8pets
04-05-2004, 08:30 PM
Sooz, I also like OP's on Stonehenge. Just curious as to which paper you were using that you didn't like?

Christi

Khadres
04-05-2004, 09:07 PM
Sooz, I also like OP's on Stonehenge. Just curious as to which paper you were using that you didn't like?

Christi

Oh, I just have a hate/hate relationship with Canson Mi-Tientes...lol Everyone else loves the stuff, so don't go by me. I just don't care for it for much except simple drawings.

If this is Stonehenge (and I think it is) that I'm using now, it's much more to my liking. This evening I'm gonna try some underpainting too which might help a lot with the dark darks and the light lights I'm wanting. Wish me luck!

Dyin
04-06-2004, 10:51 AM
Kat...one of those things where you get it and don't use it for awhile and by the time you do it's probably long past when you could get a refund..and not worth the hassle for the $5-6. I'll use it for something somewhere.
Sooz...that's GREAT!!! Can't wait to see how it goes!

hamsterdance
04-09-2004, 04:13 PM
The Expressionists are not student grade? Now I'm confused because I thought the Specialist line was the artist grade from Cray Pas.

Actually I believe Sakura markets the CrayPas Junior line as their student-grade oil pastel. Expressionist is a mid-priced OP. Specialist is their top-of-the-line quality.

But if you're having great results with them then by all means lets add them to the list of recommended OPs for beginners. :)

sundiver
04-09-2004, 07:44 PM
I impulsively ordered the full set of Cray-Pas Specialist because they were on sale at Jarry's Artarama and it was a fifth the price of a full set of Holbeins (and I must have almost a hundred individual Holbeins now).
After having done a total of one painting with the Specialists (pastel riot thread), my verdict is this: They're not bad.

Waaay better than any student-grade, not as good as Holbeins or Caran D'Ache, and similar to a lot of my Senneliers, is how I would describe them.
They really blend easily. If you like to blend and blend, you'd probably like these. (I'm a scumbler myself.) They blend with each other and with a color shaper.
They layer a bit, as well or better than a lot of my Senneliers.
They leave annoying little bits behind, like the student-grade and Senneliers do. Those bits can be easily blended in with a color-shaper.
As with all o.p.s, you can't get an intense opaque light yellow.
I like the square shape (as with the Holbeins).

I probably would have been quite happy with these if I hadn't ever tried Holbeins. I'm not UNhappy with them. They're like a waxier and harder Sennelier.

They come in a lovely wooden box- wonder how much I paid for that box!
There are 88 pastels in the box, including florescents, a couple of metallics, extra b&w and two colorless blenders.
I might use the box for plein airs- in fact might use the whole set for plein airs and keep the best ones for studio work.

Wendy

sundiver
04-09-2004, 07:46 PM
Actually I believe Sakura markets the CrayPas Junior line as their student-grade oil pastel. Expressionist is a mid-priced OP. Specialist is their top-of-the-line quality.:)

The "guy in the art store" told me the only difference between Juniors and Expressionist is the size.

Dyin
04-09-2004, 07:51 PM
Thanks Wendy, that's all really good to know. It sounds as if they are around the same price as the Caran d'Ache...100 of them and no wooden box, just tin...and hey, wondered myself on how much the wooden box cost me on the Holbeins...didn't help that husband says...'but look how warped they are' about the wooden trays!!!

majestaero
04-09-2004, 10:18 PM
Wow, this thread's really taken off!! :clap: I remember it fondly, it was here Sue found me!! :D

My .02 on a few things...I still use the Talens Panda OPs which are a student grade, and I think they're great. Not sure I can't get them anywhere, though! Talens also makes the Van Goghs, but I never did find them either. Have used the Sakura Cray-Pas (now Junior??) and I might just like them better than the Expressionist -- unless they've changed them, I beg to differ that they're the same! Broke down and bought the Expressionist Sepia because my Panda of that colour (which I depend on!!) was getting just too tiny to manipulate, but the Expressionst doesn't come close.

I used some turps for the first time on the background of the last OP I finished, and I really liked the results I got. Just used a Q-tip to cautiously dab it on, then went back when it was dry and blended a bit more. The bg was a combo of Pandas, Holbein and Senneliers. And I second the use of the Holbein indigo for darks -- just got it and I'm using it on my new piece -- wow, it's powerful!! I learned that I should have got my lights in place before putting any of it down. I've always used a combo of indigo and sepia or a deep purple and sepia for darks...every now and then throwing in some black, depending on the piece. Wish I could afford to get some more Holbeins, but well, doesn't matter too much at the moment, because I don't seem to be getting much time to work! :mad:

Linda

Dyin
04-10-2004, 11:05 AM
Yep, where I found ya! i'm glad you like that indigo...I use mine lots! Did you see that someone was using Liquin instead of turps? Am going to try that. You'll get back in the saddle again on the painting...oh, wait...being in the saddle is what's keeping you away... :p

majestaero
04-10-2004, 10:08 PM
Hmmm, Liquin, really? Interesting. I'm told it's pretty toxic, though, you might want to look into that, first! I have some that I used to use for oils, but stopped when I heard that (kinda funny from someone who eats OPs, I know :rolleyes: ). Sure smells nasty! For oils, someone I know and highly respect uses a medium called Res-N-Gel that serves the same purpose and is supposed to be non-toxic. I haven't been able to get it around here, and tried another medium that is supposed to be similar (still talking working in oil here) and don't like it too much. If I use it at all I mix it with turps and some linseed oil. Haven't tried anything like that with OPs though!

Well, how's that for a semi-off-topic tangent? :D I think galloping with a cold wind blowing through my ears is doing strange things to my brain ;) . Somebody better lock up my OPs!!

Linda

PS Sue -- love that OPAI link! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Dyin
04-11-2004, 12:13 AM
Linda...should I put out a pastel eating alert??? Geez, would love to find a non-smelly turp type medium to play with. Don't know if you've been following Kitty Wallis' thread but she uses Createx Pure Pigments for underpaintings with softies...I have the whole set from my airbrushing days and never thought of using it! A bottle could last forever the pigment is so strong. It's watersoluable but going to try it with the ops and see what happens...will report in when done!
where's your link, Linda??? :D

sundiver
04-11-2004, 11:29 AM
Have used the Sakura Cray-Pas (now Junior??) and I might just like them better than the Expressionist -- unless they've changed them, I beg to differ that they're the same! Broke down and bought the Expressionist Sepia because my Panda of that colour (which I depend on!!) was getting just too tiny to manipulate, but the Expressionst doesn't come close.
Linda

I have all three grades of Cray-Pas. The Juniors only come in sets, very cheap, small skinny round sticks. The Expressionists are larger and round and can be bought individually. The "guy in the store" was probably no expert, but I haven't seen much difference between the two. It's the Specialists square shape) that are noticeably different in quality- they contain a lot more pigment. If they weren't in categories when you bought them, they may have been a different recipe than now; I've only had them (Junior and Exp) for a year or so.

Khadres
04-12-2004, 03:03 PM
Glad to hear your friend's take on Res-N-Gel! Was going through some of my old oils stuff and found I still have two tubes of the stuff (these are BIG tubes, too). Maybe I'll find a use for it after all these years...seems in good shape, having been tightly closed in the meantime. Was wondering if it would work with OPs...you answered my question! Thanks!

Hmmm, Liquin, really? Interesting. I'm told it's pretty toxic, though, you might want to look into that, first! I have some that I used to use for oils, but stopped when I heard that (kinda funny from someone who eats OPs, I know :rolleyes: ). Sure smells nasty! For oils, someone I know and highly respect uses a medium called Res-N-Gel that serves the same purpose and is supposed to be non-toxic. I haven't been able to get it around here, and tried another medium that is supposed to be similar (still talking working in oil here) and don't like it too much. If I use it at all I mix it with turps and some linseed oil. Haven't tried anything like that with OPs though!

Well, how's that for a semi-off-topic tangent? :D I think galloping with a cold wind blowing through my ears is doing strange things to my brain ;) . Somebody better lock up my OPs!!

Linda

PS Sue -- love that OPAI link! :clap: :clap: :clap:

majestaero
04-12-2004, 11:05 PM
I have all three grades of Cray-Pas. The Juniors only come in sets, very cheap, small skinny round sticks. The Expressionists are larger and round and can be bought individually. The "guy in the store" was probably no expert, but I haven't seen much difference between the two. It's the Specialists square shape) that are noticeably different in quality- they contain a lot more pigment. If they weren't in categories when you bought them, they may have been a different recipe than now; I've only had them (Junior and Exp) for a year or so.

I've tried the Specialists as well, but actually prefer the Expressionist. The Specialists were just too waxy for me, just slid over the paper without actually leaving anything behind. The label on the old Cray-Pas I have is much like the one on the skinny Junior ones now, but they were the same thickness as what the Expressionists are now. Don't think I'll be spending any more money on any more Cray-Pas...every time I go to the art store now I buy two or three of the Holbeins...I'll build up my collection eventually!!

Linda

Dyin
04-13-2004, 11:15 AM
Well, fooey, I tried to find out how to make it easier for all you OPers across the big lake to find Holbeins...even tried to make a pitch for WC sponsorship...ha, think I'll stick to my day job :(
...here's the reply I got, it does give a way to find out American suppliers selling over there...see the email link in the letter....

April 13, 2004

Dear Sue,

Thank you for your interest and support of the Holbein Oil Pastel Line.

Holbein Oil Pastels are not available under any other name in Europe. They are hard to get there as Holbein has no comprenhensive program in Europe. My suggestion is that all artists looking for our Oil Pastels should be sent to our e-mail address. We will then forward them onto US Mail order companies who are already selling Holbein to consumers in Europe.

With respect to your request for Sponsorship our Budgets are set for an 18 month period. So unfortunately, we can not do anything at this time.

Have a great day and thank you for your support. Our general e-mail address is [email protected]

Sincerely,

Timothy S. Hopper
Executive Vice President

HK Holbein, Inc.
175 Commerce Street
Williston, VT 05495
888-HOLBEIN

hamsterdance
04-14-2004, 01:13 PM
^

Hmm....

Looks like Sennelier and Caran Darche can rest easy just a bit longer with no Holbein around for competition. ;)

Dyin
04-14-2004, 01:33 PM
^

Hmm....

Looks like Sennelier and Caran Darche can rest easy just a bit longer with no Holbein around for competition. ;)

ahh, but I have plans to move to a villa in the south of France and open up a Holbein distribution center... :p

hans.kok
04-22-2004, 11:40 AM
Some time ago I used turpentine to blend colors while working with oil pastels. It worked well, but I didn't like the smell. Since I don't have a regular studio to work in, I prefer to use materials that don't cause too much mess or smell. As an alternative I tried linseed oil and found it working well. But paper needs to be protected from linseed oil, if the work is intended to last, so I started to coat paper with acrylic gesso. I like this very much as a support. Sometimes I work with gouache as underpanting, and it works fine on the gesso layer as well. The gesso layer has a bit more tooth than regular sketching paper, just what I want. I even think it is cheaper to use normal ( though good quality) sketching paper than heavy aquarel or pastel papers. You can also easily add a color to the gesso, if you want a colored background.

By the way, I hope to see some pratical results of the tips and techniques we are discussing here. Let's see what we are talking about? (hope to post something myself soon ;) )

Dyin
04-24-2004, 01:14 PM
Some time ago I used turpentine to blend colors while working with oil pastels. It worked well, but I didn't like the smell. Since I don't have a regular studio to work in, I prefer to use materials that don't cause too much mess or smell. As an alternative I tried linseed oil and found it working well. But paper needs to be protected from linseed oil, if the work is intended to last, so I started to coat paper with acrylic gesso. I like this very much as a support. Sometimes I work with gouache as underpanting, and it works fine on the gesso layer as well. The gesso layer has a bit more tooth than regular sketching paper, just what I want. I even think it is cheaper to use normal ( though good quality) sketching paper than heavy aquarel or pastel papers. You can also easily add a color to the gesso, if you want a colored background.

By the way, I hope to see some pratical results of the tips and techniques we are discussing here. Let's see what we are talking about? (hope to post something myself soon ;) )

Welcome to WC hanscok! Good to hear how you do things and can't wait to see your work...try this link to see some of the ops in WIPS (works in progress)...scroll down below the soft pastel links to get to the oils...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134750
when you get ready to post do it in the regular forum thread, we love to see more OPs!

stonewhiteclown
04-27-2004, 07:40 PM
Just checked a link provided by Ottersong in AMAE. There's much info of pigments used by art supply manufacturers. That regards watercolours, but as far as I understand pigments are the same all around.
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html
At the top of the page links with colours.

Primary subject of the site, however, is colour theory. Author resumes his knowlege with "artist's colour wheel" and "artist's value wheel", claimed to be more accurate than conventional.

Hope that helps someone.

Dyin
04-27-2004, 08:51 PM
Alex, that's an excellent site for color theory, thanks for adding that to this post!

Dyin
04-30-2004, 12:37 PM
NOTES ON SENNELIER FIXATIVE:

Ok...started the experiments as I want to varnish a piece. I'd had trouble with this fixitive when I first bought it...a big blob landed on the piece and melted the OP. So I tried it again on an old practice piece. This time no melting (perhaps the first had some turps and there was a reaction to that). But I'm still unhappy with it. Here's what it did and didn't do. I'd covered 1/2 so I could see if it would darken like fixatives do with the softies. It didn't change the color one bit. It did richen it, sort of like a varnish does to an oil painting. But I had done this on watercolor paper and had used my fingers to blend some areas. And I got huge differences in the area I sprayed. Where the OPs are thick and solidly covered the paper it acted like a gloss finish. Where the fingers had smoothed or I had scraped it came through dull and waxy. Where the paper was allowed to show through a little on it's own it came out matte. And where the paper was untouched...nada, nothing...like it had never been touched. If you run your fingers over it lightly you don't pick up any color. But if you press as you swipe you do pick up some color, but it doesn't seem to be enough to smear it. Anyways, I give this stuff a big no.

gr8pets
05-01-2004, 01:24 PM
Here are the results from my Portfolio lightfast test swatch...

This has been in the window for a month now. Only a couple of the colors really had any fading. Otherwise, I feel pretty safe using these in my artwork. I'm so glad, because they are really cool!

Oops, pics are too big and I don't have time to edit right now. Here are links:

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest1.jpg

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest2.jpg

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest3.jpg

Christi

gr8pets
05-01-2004, 01:34 PM
Sue, thanks for sharing the info on the fixative. I'm anxious to see if you find a solution.

I got my Mother's Day present yesterday, a set of 48 Sennelier OP's. The presentation is beautiful. I don't know why, but it's like opening a special treasure for me to open up that box. I got their iridescents a few weeks ago, and had the same experience.

So now my collection consists of sets of 50 Holbeins, 48 Caran D'Ache, and 48 Sennelier + irridescents, along with miscellaneous cheaper brands and some open stock colors. Of the three artist quality brands, I'm going to decide which I like best and get the complete set.

I had trouble last week layering the Caran D'Ache OP's on the piggy I did for the WDE. I had to use Holbeins to layer. Weird, because that's opposite of my prior experience. Also, it was nice to take a third of a Holbein stick, lay on its side, and use the sharp edge to scrape up unwanted layers.

And just have to throw this in: I think Sennelier's Violet Ochre is my favorite color in the whole world. I can't wait to use it!

Christi

Dyin
05-01-2004, 03:52 PM
oh...I found my solution. Winsor & Newton All purpose Varnish. It's acrylic...but non removable. Since the OPs won't allow it to be removable, anyways, it's ok for me. Someone said to look at all the new ways of conservation we've come up with in the last century and who knows what they'll have in the future, they'll probably be able to conserve anything. It's a spray form and I'm doing LOTS of coats to build it up slowly, in matte which is working out great. I just start and end the passes off the work so there's not too much buildup at the edges. And I spray it upside down at the end of each layer and it hasn't clogged at all. I did a couple practice pieces first, on light colors it barely changes it, it does bring out the darker colors more. I'm really pleased with the result, just keep telling myself to not get impatient.
I know what you mean about opening those boxes...oh la la! I'm having a bit more trouble with coverage now that temps are rising around here. I try to do most of my work in the cooler mornings. If I had a bigger fridge I could stick the piece in there...suppose I could stick the sticks in there though! Have fun...hope you're coming to today's WDE...I'm hosting!

Dyin
05-04-2004, 01:41 AM
Christi...I missed your post on your lightfast tests...which OPs were these and how long were they in the sun? Looks pretty lightfast overall.

gr8pets
05-04-2004, 07:37 AM
Sue, these are the cheapo water soluble Portfolios. Less than $10 for their largest set of 24. Get some, you'll have fun!

I left them in the sun for a month. They did pretty good, didn't they?

Christi

Christi...I missed your post on your lightfast tests...which OPs were these and how long were they in the sun? Looks pretty lightfast overall.

Dyin
05-04-2004, 12:49 PM
yep, they did really good. Ha, no room for any more oilies...as it is I have the Holbeins out and have to move stuff to get to the other guys. I just got a 24x30 canvas and will have to put the Holbeins up just to work on it...so I better pick my colors well. :eek:

Meldy
05-05-2004, 07:00 PM
Hello Everyone!

This has been a very informative thread. I am currently in the process of doing an illustration for my job. The last three weeks have been full of thumbnail concept sketches, color studies, and approvals. The final design is out on approval (color thumbnail) and as soon as I hear back (hopefully tomorrow) I will be able to go out and purchase my supplies. I want to do this particular illustration in oil pastels. It has been several years since I have touched them, and I am brushing up with some research. I am hoping to take the weekend to practice before coming back to the office to do the final peice. So I will have MANY questions for you I am sure!!!

One question that I do have: Is it possible to do a high-quality drum scan of an Oil Pastel? Would it be dry enough? I mean it must be possible. I am curious if anyone here has done this.

Thanks! And I am so glad that I have found this thread!!

Mo.
05-05-2004, 08:09 PM
Hi Meldy and a warm welcome to you, to answer your question, I would think providing the oil pastel is rock hard before scanning it will work fine, I've not had an OP scanned around a drum, but I have had a soft pastel piece of mine scanned this way..... I was very nervous about it as it was only slightly fixed and painted on heavy weight water colour paper, but have to say it came out unscathed and the resulting prints were excellent.
So Op's being sturdier should be fine as long as they are thoroughly hardened, if I can help more let me know.

Mo.

Dyin
05-05-2004, 09:41 PM
Hi Meldy...welcome to the pastel forum! Your project sounds way cool. You could start a thread on the main pastel page when the time comes too, a lot of people forget to check the library threads. Put OP in the title and we'll all come running lol!

Meldy
05-06-2004, 12:10 PM
Thanks guys! I will start a new thread in the main pastels forum. You have been very helpful!

siberart
05-06-2004, 12:57 PM
oh...I found my solution. Winsor & Newton All purpose Varnish. It's acrylic...but non removable. Since the OPs won't allow it to be removable, anyways, it's ok for me.

Dyin, will you need to frame this OP now that the varnish is on it? Thanks for all the info - again!!

Khadres
05-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Here are the results from my Portfolio lightfast test swatch...

This has been in the window for a month now. Only a couple of the colors really had any fading. Otherwise, I feel pretty safe using these in my artwork. I'm so glad, because they are really cool!

Oops, pics are too big and I don't have time to edit right now. Here are links:

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest1.jpg

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest2.jpg

http://www.justnate.net/portfoliotest3.jpg

Christi

I just got a set of these a couple weeks ago and got to play with them just a bit the other day. What fun! Just wish they had more colors on offer! Very nice OPs, indeed, and THANKS for putting us on to them!

BTW, not sure exactly how much, but I believe my set via Curry's in Canada was only just shy of $7!