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pampe
03-22-2003, 06:36 PM
I remember, in a couple threads, your discussing selecting color by value....

Can you elaborate....if I am making any sense at all....


I imagine that I am not the only one that would find this helpful...so I posted rather than PM'd

Thanks

Pam

CarlyHardy
03-24-2003, 12:03 AM
Hi Pam!
I just got back in town from a week away from the computer, so please forgive me if I've overlooked other comments or questions which I should have answered.

I read once that if you use the proper values in your painting, it wouldn't matter what colors you chose....that the painting would still look right. You can test this by creating a sketch with charcoal with values of 1 to 5. One is the lightest - five is the darkest- three would be the middle value.

Now if you took a color and held it over one of those values and squinted, you would find that the color would be lighter or darker or a close match to the value. If it matches perfectly, it will appear to be the same. Some colors are easier to choose than others...like yellow would be a lighter value, blue would be darker than yellow...but not as dark as purple, etc.

Marsha gave us an excellent exercise at her workshop last fall. We had to choose three different colors and use them to do an entire painting. The colors had to be three different values and we could use the color of the paper as the lightest value if it was white. By choosing the colors and putting a test mark on the paper, you could squint and tell if the color was the same value of the other color you had chosen.

Try it! You'll find that some colors may be darker in value than you think!....and that some may be lighter in value! Since working with pastels, I think we have an advantage over other mediums. Our sticks are created by value from a light to dark of each color. With oils, I had to mix to create different values!
carly

sweetiness
03-24-2003, 09:45 AM
This is the BEST explanation I have ever found on choosing colors by value! Someone finally made it crystal clear. I understood the concept before but now I know how to do it. YAYYYYY!! I really glad Pampe decided to ask this in a post. This is really going to help tremendously. Thank you Carly.

butterfly
03-24-2003, 10:00 AM
Pam, thank you for asking about values.

Carly, thank you for your answer to Pam. I have struggled with the concept of values for many, many years. This week in my pastel class we are suppose to create the gray value scale. I have tried to do this numerous times, been successful with the gray scale but when asked to do the three primaries in pastels in a value scale it took me two hours ... phew lot of work! BUT, your explanation:

Now if you took a color and held it over one of those values and squinted, you would find that the color would be lighter or darker or a close match to the value. If it matches perfectly, it will appear to be the same. Some colors are easier to choose than others...like yellow would be a lighter value, blue would be darker than yellow...but not as dark as purple, etc.

put it all together for me. All of a sudden it makes sense as to what I would do with the gray scale once I made it. I could always see the graduation of the scales, but never the relationship to the other colors.

Thank you,

Roni

sweetiness
03-24-2003, 10:07 AM
Carly, would it be possible for you to do an article/lesson so we could have this around permanently? So many people can really benefit from this and it would be especially great for newcomers to pastel. They could look at the article and be off to a better start than I was.:rolleyes:
At the very least this post should be put into the hall of fame, does anyone agree?

pampe
03-24-2003, 11:55 AM
*there she is*

:D

thanks...I remeber once, you explained in a plein aire...that you lay your pastel out by value and then it almost doesn't matter which you choose...can you say more about that?


And thanks for changing the title;)

jackiesimmonds
03-24-2003, 01:34 PM
Here is an exercise I often gave my students, and it "matches" Carly's advice, but with a slight difference.

Take an old magazine. Find a page with a good colour photo, or advertisement, in it. Tear out a strip from that page, about 1" wide. This will give you a coloured "ribbon".

Stick this down onto a sheet of white paper, and alongside it, copy the strip, but only in shades of light grey, through to black, trying to be as close to the tone as you can be. Do what Carly says - squint, it will make it easier.

Then, when you have finished, take your piece of white paper with the two strips on it, and scan them in greyscale.

If you have two identical strips..........you have cracked translating colour into tone!!

Here are my quick efforts, to show what I mean. first one is coloured (though I have to admit there wasn't much change of colour in my chosen strip, better to find something more colourful) and the second one is scanned greyscale.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/1805-colrd_strips.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/1805-greyscale_colrd_strip.JPG

Now a further challenge. You could copy the strip again, from the greyscale version only this time........into other colours. Any colours you like. Do two versions - one multicoloured, and one in, say, shades of blue. Now check again by scanning greyscale. If you got it right - you go to the top of the class! Lots of gold stars!!!:clap:

Try it. It's fun.

Jackie
www.jackiesimmonds.co.uk

sweetiness
03-24-2003, 04:29 PM
Another very valuable lesson! Thanks Jackie. I'm going to go try this right now.

CarlyHardy
03-24-2003, 05:25 PM
Jackie, thanks for the great illustration and exercise!

Pam, I thought instead of trying to do a lot of explaining, I'd just show you how I lay out my colors. In the first image, you see the pastels in color, then in the second, you see the pastels in b/w which gives you an idea of value. Compare the first with the second and you'll notice that the lightest values are in the upper left corner...mid values range across the center diagonally...and my darkest colors/values are in the lower area.

Notice the blues in the lower right...check out their values! in the second image. Those are some of Terry Ludwig pastels that I haven't incorporated into the value range yet. That's why they stand out in the b/w image and some of my duplicates still have wrappers which appear lighter, too. When I need them, I'll remove the wrappers - for now, they take up space to keep the pastels from moving about.

Notice too, that many of the colors in the mid range appear the same in the second image and so do many of the darks. Looking at the value image, you can't tell which are light blue, light yellow, or light pink....etc.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/250-pastelcolors.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/250-pastelcolorsbw.jpg

jackiesimmonds
03-24-2003, 05:48 PM
Carly, that is wonderful!

And Butterfly - take heart. I took this out of a book I have here. One likes to think that authors know what they are doing. However, take a look at the greyscale version! Oh boy, could she/he have got it more wrong?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/1805-col_chart.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2003/1805-col_chart_greyscale.JPG

I feel sure you could do better than this. We all could! Interesting idea - number all the squares, coloured, and grey. Then, if you were to cut out the"wrong" grey squares, and move them about until they matched the appropriate tone of the grey line far left, it would be quite revealing about the tone of the colour, wouldn't it. The yellows, for instance, would stop WAY up the scale, and the reds might surprise you too.

Jackie

Just one thing about tones in painting, hope you don't mind, Carly. Tho it is generally true that if you get your values right, you can often get away with using any colour you like, it is as well to learn a little about warms and cools too, since sometimes, a warm colour can come "further forward" in your picture than a cool one of the same tone, (depending on what is next to it.) It is worth reading up a bit about this, and then looking at some master paitings to see if you can see the principle at work.

bnoonan
03-24-2003, 06:14 PM
Brilliant lessons here!!! Absolutely helpful and wonderful. Jackie I know your exercise for the students is a challenge, but boy it's a great idea. I also like the idea of working it backwards into color.

Carly - how do you get any pastels out of that box when they are so closely packed together. I'd be totally frustrated.

Now you guys have me heading for my pastel box to photograph and then go B&W to see how I've done in sorting them.

Cheers!!!

Pam - excellent question!!!!

Barb

Mo.
03-24-2003, 06:43 PM
I echo everything that Barb has said here, this deserves a 5 star, which I will give, excellent tutorial, I thought I knew most things about tonal values...but I've learnt some more tonight..

Thanks Carly and thanks Jackie.... And Thanks Pampe for staring the thread it's invaluable.

Cheers,
Mo.

jmfletch
03-24-2003, 07:34 PM
This is excellent!!!

Thanks to all who contributed and especially pampe for asking the question.

Somebody tell me ...Is there a way to save an entire thread to your computer???


Joe

pampe
03-24-2003, 09:06 PM
INCREDIBLE

You are too much, both of you

THANK YOU THANK YOU!


You know if I had fantasaized a place to live my art and learn and grown...I couldn't have dreamt it up this well.

PRINTING THIS OUT FOR many reviews.......

butterfly
03-24-2003, 09:58 PM
Carly & Jackie:

As Pam said, "Thank you, Thank you". This couldn't have come at a more appropriate time. Like I mentioned I have a pastel class tomorrow and we were told to bring our black and whites to do a gray tonal scale. I've printed this and am going to study tonight so I can at least see the relationship to color.

Carly, your palette box of pastels is just unbelievable. I am going to try and duplicate this into mine and take a picture and put it into gray scale and see if I am finally getting it.

All of you thank you, this is priceless!

Roni

CarlyHardy
03-25-2003, 01:22 PM
Butterfly,

I can't say that I intentionally meant to coordinate my colors by value but the more I arranged them, the more apparent it became. When I paint with oils or acrylics, I lay out my palette from left to right across the top of the palette, then down the right side (because I am right handed and I hold the palette in my left hand).

From the left I lay out my lightest value of warm colors to the darkest value of warms across the top....lt. lemon yellow is on the left top and dioxizine violet (deep purple) is in the right corner. I go from lt. yellow to orange to reds to purples...

From the top right which is the deep purple, I go down with cool colors getting lighter in value! The reason I lay my palette out like this is the ease and speed it gives me when painting plein air. Time is of the essence and I don't like to stop and 'look' for which color to choose or whether its a warm or cool! My focus can remain on the subject and quick daubs of 'perceived' color more than on an analytical approach to mixing and blending.

Now...all of that just naturally transferred to pastels when I began laying out my colors...I wanted warmer colors to my left and cooler colors to my right for the same reason - speed when choosing colors because 80% of my work is done on location! Look at the color pic and you'll see that almost midway you could draw a line between cool and warm colors.

This also helps me when I'm working in shadows as Jackie mentioned earlier. Looking at my palette, I know immediately which colors are warmer or cooler and also the proximity of their value as compared to my lightest lights and darkest darks. This is simply an aid to me as I work...not a dependence! I grab colors from all over the palette and mix them to create new colors in the painting all the time.

Keeping my palette "limited" keeps me focused on the subject and painting...if I had more than this on location, I wouldn't know what to do with them!!
carly

butterfly
03-25-2003, 11:27 PM
Carly:

Thank you for the explanation. I went to my palette box of pastels and noticed that I did have the pastels arranged in a similar manner. But I have them stacked in trays instead of in one tray. I haven't painted on location with pastels yet, so I don't know if the trays will work. (I've only done it with charcoal, and also white chalk on black paper). I see what you mean about how your design would keep you focused on the subject and not hunting colors.

Thanks again.

Roni

TinaLee
03-27-2003, 09:48 AM
I have spent several hours over the past two days looking for a way to organize my pastels by value. I remembered discussions of getting the value right, and wanted to arrange my pastel palette in order of light/dark and warm/cool. Somehow I missed this excellent thread til now! Thank you, Carly and Jackie for showing and explaining several great ways to translate color into value.

I knew that if I could just see an example of pastels organized by value and temperature, then I would "get it." Well, I got that, plus some really good explanations of how and why, and even a lesson on how to learn to translate color into value with the magazine example.

Thanks, pampe for starting this thread and to everyone else who contributed! I think this should at least be a Sticky, and would be a worthy addition to the Hall of Fame as well.

Off to print this out and put it to practice in my studio...

Tina

Smudger
03-27-2003, 10:27 AM
Great Thread:clap: It must go in the hall of fame... thanks:clap:

pampe
03-27-2003, 10:11 PM
will someone take care of the sticky????

E-J
03-29-2003, 12:23 PM
Just bumping this thread back up to the top so that it doesn't get overlooked by the moderators and they can 'sticky' it for us. There is so much excellent information here ~ now I'm itching for my wooden tote to arrive so that I can experience the nerdish joy of organising my pastels by colour and tone :D :D Great thread ~ thank you, Carly and Jackie.

crazyartist2000
10-19-2003, 08:32 PM
okay...signing off...have to reread again tomorrow...brain not taking in this value stuff...know grey to black stuff but will hav to study all this great info in the morning

pampe
10-19-2003, 08:56 PM
I believe this so much but just can't seem to get there....need to RE-READ this

CarlyHardy
10-19-2003, 09:50 PM
Pam,
one way to see it work is to take three values..just use one color...but a light, middle and darker value of that color.

Do a simple painting (small size)...eggs work well! Because they don't have an intense color and are effected by strong light!

Now paint the same painting again but choose three different colors that are the same values as the first sticks of the one color. Squint and see what color is the same value. Use these three different colors in the same way you used the sticks of one color.

This is easily done with an image...changing it to values and eliminating the color...but when you paint it yourself, you gain a lot better sense of how it works.

carly

jackiesimmonds
10-20-2003, 03:27 AM
Truly, people, if you do not "get" this stuff, you really should try, because it is SO important. Carly's idea is excellent, try that, and have another look at the little exercise I set in one of the earlier threads too. Perhaps you "visual" people, who don't get it, might see it better this way:

Ok here are some eggs, in their "real", natural colour:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2003/1805-naturaleggs.jpg

Now, here they are, monochrome (shades of grey)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2003/1805-eggsgreyscale.jpg

Now, here they are, still monochrome, but all green tones:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2003/1805-eggsgreen.jpg

and finally, here they are, STILL THE SAME TONES BUT DIFFERENT COLOURS:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2003/1805-eggsmulti.jpg

I might not have done a good job, painting with my computer, to get the tones exactly right in the last one, particularly in the background, but hopefully, you can see that the tones(you may call it values) are still more or less the same, even tho different colours have been used.

That is the whole thing about colour by value. If you still are confused, here is an even simpler exercise.

1. Draw or paint three blobs of pastel - black, medium grey, and very pale grey.

2. Now underneath them, draw three blobs in blue, your darkest blue, the nearest you can get to black - put it right underneath the black blob; a medium blue, underneath the medium grey blob, and a very pale blue underneath the very pale grey. Squint at the two rows - do they look fairly similar? They should. If they don't, you are allowed to modify the colours by mixing other pastels over the top.

3. Underneath those, draw three blobs in different colourscompletely. Under the darkest ones...put an appropriate shade of green. The shade of green you choose is up to you.
Under the middle one, put an appropriate shade of red.
Under the very pale one, put an appropriate shade of purple.

4. Do yet another row, choosing three completely different colours, but MATCH THE TONES. I leave the choice of colours to you because you should be getting it by now!

Try squinting at all three rows - they should look quite similar, but ifyou want to check you got it right you can put the whole page in your scanner, and scan it in greyscale (ifyou can) or take it to a photocopy shop, and ask them to do it. If you got the exercise right, all three rows will look exactly the same.

I am sure you will have gotten it by then!!!!!! Please do it, I am determined you should get it.
You should really do it alone, but here is my attempt, in case you need a visual (often, people do ...words just don't cut it sometimes). If you look hard, you will see that Ihad to modify by mixing - I didn't always pick up the right stick first time!


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Oct-2003/1805-colorbyvalue.JPG

hope this helps
Jackie:)

Eugene Veszely
10-20-2003, 11:28 AM
This is a very helpful thread :)

Colour is such an amazing "thing" ...for want of a better word :)

Bubba's Mama
10-20-2003, 05:24 PM
Thank you to whomever bumped this back up to the beginning! I might never have seen it otherwise. And, Pam, thanks for starting this thread. Will be invaluable, once I figure it all out. Too much to ab sorb all at once.

And thanks to Carly and Jackie for sharing so much of their talent. As a newbie to pastels, I am overwhelmed by all of the excellent advice on these threads.

Susan

jackiesimmonds
10-21-2003, 02:44 AM
It's not an easy subject to get to grips with, but until you do, you won't make the progress you want to make.

It's worth all the reading, and practice, honest!

J

Ead
10-21-2003, 10:46 AM
Thanks for sharing this valuable info.

I also have learn a lot from this thread.
Ead

bcraver
10-21-2003, 08:57 PM
A quilter in my group of plein aire painters turned me on to this cool little tool. Its called a "Ruby Beholder Tool" (TM), it is a clear red plastic rectangle, about 2" by 5". There is a square cut out of one end (for viewing quilting fabrics with I guess) but most of it is the clear red plastic.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Oct-2003/3044-Ruby%20Beholder_small.jpg

You can hold the red plastic up to your eye and see your painting in dark and light values! You can also use it on the scene or subject you are painting. It is amazing what the actual value of a color is!

Cost is around $7, you can find it on the Internet by that name, or if you are near a quilting shop, they should have it or know of it. I managed to buy some on the Internet for $4 each, so got several for my fellow painters here in Juneau.

bcraver
10-21-2003, 10:07 PM
Here we go, hopefully, previous image must have been too big! A photo of one - with a Unison pastel for size comparison. ( As soon as I arranged this my cat was up on the flat file trying to "help" . . .)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Oct-2003/3044-ruby_small.jpg

MonicaB
10-22-2003, 08:15 AM
You can also use red clear wrapping paper -- you know, the kind used to wrap gift baskets? I bought a roll at Hobby lobby for $3. I cut out a large piece, taped it inside an old mat, and voila -- my own nifty value viewer. :D

jackiesimmonds
10-22-2003, 12:14 PM
Clear red wrapping paper ........what a great idea! I guess it would work with any of those clear crystal wrapping papers - if you used green, for example, maybe you would get those green eggs I posted earlier?

I cannot remember the name of it, but the old masters used to use something similar, by smoking a piece of glass.....and didn't we all used to create something of the kind in order to view an eclipse of the sun?

Very dark sunglasses sometimes work too ...

Jackie

sundiver
10-23-2003, 02:56 PM
OK, I tried a little experiment with values and greyscale. I painted some paper and arranged the bits in order of velue, I thought, then scanned them in greyscale to check.
I had difficulty believing the results of the orange v.s. blue.
So I scanned them together.
Here is the color scan:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Oct-2003/6393-blueorange_value_comp.jpg
Now here it is in greyscale
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Oct-2003/6393-blueorange_value_comp_greyscale.jpg
Can that be true? If you squint, the blue is darker.

max nelson
10-23-2003, 10:44 PM
Very happy that I ran across this thread. I understand the theory but have always had difficulty determining the values. This answers many of my questions. Thanks to all for the valuable contribitions.
Max

jackiesimmonds
10-24-2003, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by sundiver
OK, I tried a little experiment with values and greyscale. I painted some paper and arranged the bits in order of velue, I thought, then scanned them in greyscale to check.
I had difficulty believing the results of the orange v.s. blue.


Reds/oranges always fool the eye. They are always darker than you think they are. It's fascinating to try these exercises, isn't it.

J

sundiver
10-24-2003, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by jackiesimmonds
Reds/oranges always fool the eye. They are always darker than you think they are. It's fascinating to try these exercises, isn't it.J

Are you saying that orange is really darker than the blue? When I squint the blue definitely shows darker against the white paper.
I think it was fooling the scanner! I tried it on the photocopier and got a different result again with my 10 or so colors. There are some blues that don't show up on a photocopy at all and they aren't all that light, and reds always look darker, almost black, on a photocopier.
Next I'm going to try a digital photo in greyscale.

jackiesimmonds
10-24-2003, 08:02 AM
hmmmm ... much to my surprise, this is what my computer produced when asked to convert it to greyscale.

Perhaps this proves that you should trust what your eyes tell you, even squinty ones!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Oct-2003/1805-6393-blueorange_value_comp.jpg

sundiver
10-24-2003, 03:01 PM
I'm still 'sperimentin' ! :D
Because I'm trying to teach value/color to my students, I made a chart, more or less in order of value by squinting at it.
Then I a) scanned it in greyscale
b) photocopied it and
c) took a digital photo
And guess what? The results were all different!
The digital photo was closest to my squinting.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Oct-2003/6393-values_comparison.jpg
So I would not trust a scanner to prove values of colors.

lisilk
11-02-2003, 09:19 PM
Fantastic thread. Great info for the absolute ( pastel ) beginner.:clap: :clap:

Thanks !

Li

Osteomark
01-02-2004, 04:08 PM
Outstanding thread!

Value is such an intregle part of painting. I had know clue until recently how much so. I bought a book on Light by Judy Morris and she explains it well also. I'm going to buy some red ceran wrap when doing my "honey do list". lol

Mark

DGrau
01-06-2004, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=sundiver]I'm still 'sperimentin' ! :D
Because I'm trying to teach value/color to my students,

If they have trouble determining values by squinting, then a good way to see them clearly is to work in a dark room. Lay a color down by a grey scale value chart and close door to the next room taking away the available light in the room which you are doing your value study. Eventually by closing the door enough, the color will turn grey {lose its color} enough, and will be easy to match up with the correct value on the grey scale.

Deborah Secor
01-10-2004, 04:43 PM
I've read this thread with interest since I teach color and value classes a lot. Here's one way that's helped me understand and find value, something that Handell taught us but which has been expanded on over the years, of course.

When you lay down a color and put another side-by-side with it, so that they touch slightly, if the colors seem to blend into one shape they are the same or similar in value. In this way you can search for two or three colors of the same family of values to layer or put down in broken strokes, which strengthens the color in your painting without destroying the underlying value structure.

Here are three quickly done examples. Doing this will help you see the values together, because if one is different it sticks out badly. Squinting until your eyes are almost closed helps a lot. (These aren't perfect--but let's just say that's instructional, rather than an accident, okay? :rolleyes:)

One more thing, Handell theorizes that you can't do this with the colors above and below one another because there's an expectation of cool above and warm below caused by the knowledge we have of the landscape. Therefore he suggests you put them side-to-side. Interesting idea...I'm still not sure he's right but it makes for some lively classroom discussions!

Deborah

lensman
10-11-2004, 10:19 AM
Are you saying that orange is really darker than the blue? When I squint the blue definitely shows darker against the white paper.
I think it was fooling the scanner! I tried it on the photocopier and got a different result again with my 10 or so colors. There are some blues that don't show up on a photocopy at all and they aren't all that light, and reds always look darker, almost black, on a photocopier.
Next I'm going to try a digital photo in greyscale.

You definately will find this with scanning and photocopying. In the 'old days' before computers and digital files when designers/illustrators produced layouts to be copied they needed crop marks on the board to indicate where the corners were to be cut (sorry I don't have the technical names for this) but what they used for the crop marks were LIGHT BLUE lines since the blue didn't show up on the black and white copy...

To get a good greyscale conversion you really need to do it in a computer programme, as people above seem to have discovered.

Incidentally, since a lot of people seem to have digital cameras nowadays take a look at your camera's technical capabilities. With mine it is not necessary to take the picture, upload to computer and fiddle with there; I simply select a feature on the camera itself and I can see the image in greyscale as soon as I have taken the picture!

Glenn

lindadavis
10-11-2004, 01:03 PM
Carly, I'm going to have to copy your method of organizing pastels. It's the coolest! Thanks!

Linda D

CarlyHardy
10-12-2004, 06:51 PM
So glad that this thread has been helpful to so many :clap:

I use a Soltek easel now when on location and have boxes made to fit into the slots at the front of the easel to hold my pastel sticks. I still have them in the same order across in front of me. Recently I was interviewed for an article in a local paper because they were interested in my recent show of plein air work and the photographer took a close up of my palette of color :)

It was so cool when the paper came out to see a cropped image of my palette on the front of the section...I had no doubts that my article was inside :D

carly

Meldy
11-22-2004, 11:47 AM
WONDERFUL THREAD!!! I commend all of you for creating it. This is a must assignment for everyone!!!!

ponting
11-25-2004, 07:16 PM
Very interesting!! Great explanations from everyone!!

I will send my students here for homework :)

Dianna :clap:

pampe
12-17-2004, 01:13 PM
I've read this thread with interest since I teach color and value classes a lot. Here's one way that's helped me understand and find value, something that Handell taught us but which has been expanded on over the years, of course.

When you lay down a color and put another side-by-side with it, so that they touch slightly, if the colors seem to blend into one shape they are the same or similar in value. In this way you can search for two or three colors of the same family of values to layer or put down in broken strokes, which strengthens the color in your painting without destroying the underlying value structure.

Here are three quickly done examples. Doing this will help you see the values together, because if one is different it sticks out badly. Squinting until your eyes are almost closed helps a lot. (These aren't perfect--but let's just say that's instructional, rather than an accident, okay? :rolleyes:)

One more thing, Handell theorizes that you can't do this with the colors above and below one another because there's an expectation of cool above and warm below caused by the knowledge we have of the landscape. Therefore he suggests you put them side-to-side. Interesting idea...I'm still not sure he's right but it makes for some lively classroom discussions!

Deborah

Thanks for this!

About cameras...when I organized mine...I used my camera on GRAYSCALE to arrange them......easier than sqinting for 500 sticks :wink2:

IndigoRed
02-07-2005, 08:12 PM
Found this site a couple weeks ago, i bought the ones for girault. but thought i would share it with WC! Pastel forum...........I Havent put mine to use, but will soon........I didnt really think about makin this a seperate thread because it has to do with Value in pastels....

http://www.valuepalette.com/index.html

Stephanie

CarlyHardy
02-08-2005, 01:06 AM
Stephanie,
welcome to the Pastel forums!! and thanks so much for posting that link for all of us. Very helpful information!!
carly

IndigoRed
02-08-2005, 01:47 AM
Hi carly! and your welcome, and thank you for welcoming me even though ive been here for some time :D but im glad im welcomed! :clap:

stephanie

Nata
02-16-2005, 10:36 AM
This thread is sooo interesting :clap: :clap: :clap: I could be tied up forever :)

Through frequent moving I had to pack and unpack my (many) pastels very often, always finding a new way to arrange them. The last arrangement is by colour temperature (cool reds, warm reds etc.) When I have decided on the colour range of my painting, I select some into smaller trays, still divided by colour temperature. I found your thread so interesting and want to incorporate it into my own way. Maybe I start by making a grey-scale photo of the existing boxes and then arrange the pastels into values within the existing divisions? Does this sound like a good idea (apart from alot of work) or defeat the object, as I would still select colour by temperature first instead of value?

pastelboy
04-14-2005, 01:45 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

This thread is simply awesome. It changed the way I treat colors in my pastel nudes: as long as their values are correct in my paintings, I can choose/use different colors with similar values. I have to study this thread over and over again until it becomes second nature to me.

Thanks.

Pastelboy :clap: :clap: :clap:

susanhaig
09-03-2007, 01:00 PM
I have trying to 'get it' when it comes to values... and thanks to this thread by George I think I 'got it'. Sue

Geoff
09-05-2007, 06:39 AM
One idea I read about in a colour pencil book was to take 5 or 7 squares of card. Choose a black and white, together with the intermediate greys - paint or use charcoal/graphite (fix them !). Punch 2 holes in each card. Voila instant 'grey' scales. To use, hold the card(s) over the colour and match.