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JCorbet
11-06-2011, 12:16 AM
Hello everyone! Amazing place you've got here. In fact, it's a bit overwhelming and hard to find the precise answers I'm looking for. So please excuse me if this topic has been done to death.

By way of intro, I have so far only worked in black & white charcoal; and I'm now interested in trying out color pastels.

I tried copying a Degas sketch in pastel. I was using a mix of charcoal, Unison soft, and semi-hard Nouvel Carré pastels, on Hahnemuhle paper. To my understanding, Degas used very bright, and therefore very soft, pastels.

The immediate problem I encountered was that, upon drawing over one color with another color, the colors would immediately mix. The reason this is a problem is that in Degas' sketches, it appears that he was able to draw over colors without mixing, when he wanted to (ie, sometimes mixing occurs, sometimes it doesn't). I also tried using oil pastels, and found that they mixed, too, though somewhat less.

I've read that Degas was able to keep colors separate by using fixative heavily. I therefore used fixative in my copy, but it did not work! They still mixed. I also find it somewhat unlikely that Degas used fixative, for his style appears to be very quick and impatient; he doesn't seem like the kind of artist who would have been willing to wait 10 minutes between each layer. Lastly, I've read a lot of pastel tutorials in which fixative was not used at all.

I don't mean to make this topic exclusively about Degas; this is really just a general question which I hope any pastel painter will be able to answer. Again, sorry for such a general question; but until I figure out this basic problem regarding pastels, I can't progress.

Lynndidj
11-06-2011, 12:40 AM
Well, you have an issue that we all face - layering. I do believe that Degas used a natural casein fixative on his paper - there is one like that created by SpectraFix. If you look for threads on SpectraFix you will find numerous ones and various folks opinions on it. I have never worked on Hahnemuhle paper before, but generally, one works from hard pastel to soft pastel. Sometimes one wants to blend the pastels together and so going over a soft pastel with a hard pastel blends and creates a new color visually. One way to achieve your goal is to first lay down your charcoal, fix heavily with SpectraFix, then go in with your harder pastels, fix again, and then top it off with your Unisons. If you used a fixative that was meant for the end of a painting instead of a "workable fixative" that is probably why it didn't work for you. I prefer the natural fixative in SpectraFix because of less toxic fumes, and I believe the color doesn't change. You can fix with two lighter layers of fixative instead of one heavy one. The natural fixative does take longer to dry than the workable fixative, like Krylon.

Hope this helps!

Lynn

Davkin
11-06-2011, 12:53 AM
Lynn says one way do deal with this issue is to work from hard to soft pastels, however the paper may be an issue as well. If you are working with paper that won't take many layers then I beleive it is harder to avoid mixing. I don't seem to have too much trouble with that on Uart, I have pretty good control over mixing or not mixing just by how I apply the pastel and I don't use any fixative at all.

David

Lynndidj
11-06-2011, 01:20 AM
David - you are correct about Uart or other sanded papers. I don't really fix on those papers either. JCorbet was talking about Degas and working on that paper which is not sanded, and Degas worked on paper that wasn't sanded, so if you have to fix to layer, what is the best way to do it? I would still choose SpectraFix - just my personal preference.

Lynn

Sonni
11-06-2011, 01:49 AM
Degas...my guess is that he used Sennelier pastels as they were readily available. From what I have read, I believe he steamed the backside of the paper, and the steam set the pastel. I work on Canson a lot and have used SpectraFix. It works pretty well. I have also steamed pastels, which worked on some papers and not on others.

Deborah Secor
11-06-2011, 01:55 AM
JCorbet, which of Degas' paintings were you copying? The reason I ask is that I find copying to be very hard--nearly impossible to do well--unless you're quite careful to make sure you're painting at about the same scale. Otherwise your strokes will be significantly different from those you see. I'd suggest analyzing the color of the paper, then what colors were first applied, and so on, to discover the layering process. But unless you're working on a similarly sized painting, you'll get really frustrated trying to copy it. Maybe you know that and took it into account already.

As to avoiding mixing colors, on Hahnemühle's Bugra paper (their pastel paper) it's hard to avoid blending colors. If that's what you're using, the texture is different on back and front. Did you use the laid, textured side or the smoother side? I'd stick with the texture to keep from having the pastel become mixed, as on the smooth side, if you don't use a light touch, the colors become easily mixed, although in truth there's not a huge difference.

Another bit of information, again perhaps something you know, is that you should keep your fingers OUT of the pastel. In other words, don't blend with your fingers. Only lay down fresh strokes, varying the way you apply the pastel. Use the flat sides, the long angled edges, and only occasionally the tips. Working with pastel is far different from 'drawing'--it's really more painting, in some cases. Certainly Degas' work isn't drawn, at any rate.

Maybe some of that will add to your thinking...

the drover's dog
11-06-2011, 03:42 AM
Just tried to upload a pic of Degas' actual box of pastels. But the %$*&$# uploading is playing up again. Tried both methods.

Degas worked with a very limited palette. Pastels were probably Sennelier or Roche. Probably Roche as he had so few pastels. Couldn't afford more. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll truy and upload the pic later.

Dale

jackiesimmonds
11-06-2011, 06:37 AM
Roche pastels are quite different to most other pastels; I was sent a small amount of them to test run some time ago. They are not as soft as Schminke pastels, or Ludwig, both of which are gorgeously soft and creamy.

It is absolutely true that if you begin with a harder pastel, and put softer ones over the top, you will get less mixing.

It is also true that Degas used a form of Casein-based fixative, and often he would spray quite heavily so that the pastel would become drenched, almost runny, like paint, and if that is absolutely true, then it is most likely he would have had to wait for that sticky layer to dry before adding more pastel. I do not think it is safe to assume he worked quickly all the time.

I work extremely fast in the early stages of a painting. I work softer pastels over harder ones. I do not have problems with intermixing of colour, but if I do, I dont worry about it; a quick burst of fixative will quickly give me back a "tooth" to work on, but more likely, if I am unhappy with a passage in my painting, I WILL BRUSH OFF the offending pastel and then work on, rather than build up loads more layers and end up clogging the tooth of the paper.

I am conscious of using harder pressure at some moments, and reducing the pressure at other times - sweeping one colour over another, I am unlikely to press too hard, because then I think I would be in danger of mixing the two colours together. If I am painting a highlight in a light colour, I am very likely to use my softest pastel, and press harder at that point.

It is a matter of trial and error. If the way you are painting - combination of pressure, type of pastel, type of paper - still annoys you, you have to make changes, changes to all of these things I have mentioned.

To begin with, get a selection of different surfaces to work on. Using the pastels you have, practice the same kinds of strokes on each surface, to see how the paper changes the way the strokes look.

As you work, be conscious of the pressure you are using. Change it, and see what happens.

Dont paint anything recognisable. Just practice with lines, side strokes, overlaying - all sorts, to find out what works how and on what.

Jackie

the drover's dog
11-06-2011, 07:59 AM
Okay, here's the pic of Degas' pastel box.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/64337-Edgar_Degas_Pastel_Box_closeup.jpg

Not much of a choice of pastels is there?

Dale

allydoodle
11-06-2011, 09:43 AM
Okay, here's the pic of Degas' pastel box.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/64337-Edgar_Degas_Pastel_Box_closeup.jpg

Not much of a choice of pastels is there?

Dale

I now feel inadequate, and totally indulgent :lol: ! Wow, what he could do with so little, amazing really! I have one qustion: What is that thing all by itself in the front of the box? Can't figure that out.....

You've gotten tons of great advice and ideas here. I would agree that light pressure, working from hard to soft, and varying the pressure as you work are all things that will help. I also paint my highlights with softer pastels and tend to use more pressure there. Really varying your pressure during the painting process does make a big difference, and predominantly using light pressure throughout is important.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is working from dark to light. When painting with pastels it is much easier to lighten a passage than to darken one. If you try to place a dark over a light it seems to make mud (the colors mix, and not in a good way), and the dark isn't ever as dark as you want it to be. The way around that is to block in all your areas with colors a bit darker than what you want the end result to be. Save those lights for the end of the process, or at least the end of the process in the area you want the light to be. Layering some midtones first in the light areas will help your lights to sing more. Think of it this way, if you have white paper and you put white pastel on it in an area that is going to be white, the white pastel won't glow, it will just disappear on the white paper. Even if the pastel is a tinted light color, not white (I rarely use white), it will still disappear into the white paper. This is one reason why I never paint pastels directly on white paper.

I think by working from dark to light your colors won't 'mix' so much, they will layer and the colors will start to glow, a really nice effect you can only get from pastels.

the drover's dog
11-06-2011, 10:04 AM
Chris, I think the thing in the front is a rusty penknife. Yep, we are self indulgent. Just goes to show that despite limited tools, a master artist remains a master artist. Don't forget though that Degas worked like a dog his whole, long life to become a better artist.

Dale

Colorix
11-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Hi JCorbet, tough question, and his pastelling evolved over time. Degas was an extremely deliberate man, capable of being totally absorbed in what he did. He often used monoprints with the darks establised for painting over with pastel. His pastels were definitely Rochés (and he may have used other brands, it is probably certain he did). They were fairly 'hard' and thin back then.

From what I have been able to see, he tended to lay in the major masses with 'broadside' strokes or scribbles, in flat colour. He seems to have used fixative a lot, working on several paintings simultaneously, so he'd simply go to the next painting while the first was drying.

Then he layered narrower strokes, fixing inbetween layers, and hatching seems to have been his favourite stroke for finishing layers. He seems to not have fixated the top layers. I think part of the trick is that he had long thin pastels and didn't apply much pressure on them. He may have held them at the far end and just guided the stroke with his hand. These thin finishing strokes can be woven or placed adjacent without much blending.

I'd love to try the Rochés, to see if they behave sufficiently differently to explain his technique.

The Unsions would be great for the lower layers (it is my guess), with plenty of fixative on top, but I think they are a bit too soft and 'floury' for a Degas technique. I'd try Giraults, as they are skinny sticks that are both hard and soft at the same time (has to be experienced, so hard to explain). Girault colours are also more intense.

In fact, I think a watercolour underpainting with light strokes would work well.

I have a series of articles on Degas methods on my website (http://charlotteherczfeld.com/articles). The third (http://www.pastelguild.eu/Scribbler/Pastel_Scribbler_Sep09.pdf)article is where I studied his strokes and use of colour.

The mystery object in his box that looks like a dead rat, could it be a rolled and tied piece of chamoix? It was used as a stomp, but also for painting, by applying pigment to it first.

Right, we don't need zillions of sticks, we only need to know how to use them well, as Degas the Master knew!

JCorbet
11-06-2011, 01:21 PM
WOW!!! .... Talk about "coming to the right place"! You people are amazing :grouphug:. So many immediate, intelligent responses, and all in the same place! I can't tell you how lonely I feel, sometimes, not knowing other people who share my passion for studying the Masters. Thank you everyone who has responded so far. I've read you answers carefully. Colorix: thank you for your article; I can't wait to read it!

I've decided, due to the overwhelmingly welcoming response from everyone, to post my attempt, along with the original Degas beneath it (any advice on how I what I could have done differently is appreciated!). I chose this study because the use of pastel was minimum; it's basically a charcoal study with some pastel thrown hastily in - so I figured it would be a good place to start for a b&w artist like myself.

Quite a few of you mentioned paper choices and tooth. I used Hahnemuhle (laid side, I think - I have trouble distinguishing on this brand) because, in the original, it doesn't seem like Degas used a paper with much tooth (no texture is evident in the photograph).

Can someone explain in more detail this thing about "steaming" the paper? I've never heard of that before.

As for fixative; some of you recommended I try SpectraFix. Okay, here is a problem maybe some of you can help me with. I live in the island of Puerto Rico, where it is hard to get good art supplies, and I usually need to order my stuff from online sites like BlickArt. However, no one will ship fixative to me because it is an explosive and is considered dangerous. I used Krylon (which is sold locally) to fix the charcoal layer, which obviously did not work (when I drew white over it, it smudged). Does anyone have any advice on alternative ways to fix?

Dover's Dog: yes, I'd seen that photo of Degas' 1870 pastel box before! What struck me was how carelessly and uncleanly it was organized. As for the limited pallet, I think it is worth noting that, perhaps, this is just 1 of Degas's boxes. Notice that all the colors are in the blue-pink-violet range. Surely he had another box full of reds, browns, etc.?

Now that I look at my copy and the original side by side on my computer screen, it seems that Degas did not use fixative, and that in fact there is more evidence of mixing colors in the original than in my copy. The only major issues I can see is the hair. My brown highlight areas look more like a red hat! The problem I encountered was that, once I discovered that fixative doesn't work, I knew it was going to be impossible to first paint an underlayer of black, and then paint over it with brown (or red, since I don't have brown). Moreover, Degas added some blue-white lines into the hair for a hair tie, and I knew that if I tried that it would mix with the underlying colors, too. It was at this point that I realized Degas must have had some more effective way to layer colors.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980723-degas_copy_web.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980723-dancer_when_lacing.jpg

allydoodle
11-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Moreover, Degas added some blue-white lines into the hair for a hair tie, and I knew that if I tried that it would mix with the underlying colors, too. It was at this point that I realized Degas must have had some more effective way to layer colors.



You actually can put a lighter color like blue-white over the hair. Remember what I said, light over dark right? If you don't smudge or blend it with your hand (or anything else for that matter), and just leave the marks, they will stay on top of the dark hair just fine. They won't mix with the underlying colors at all. Try it on a scrap piece of paper to see what I mean. Put some the same dark colors down, then use a soft blue-white color over it to indicate a hair tie, and it should just say put :D . Use the edge of the lighter pastel to make a fine line, it should just stick to the darker color, and it should work very easily if you use a softer white-blue pastel as opposed to a harder blue-white pastel.

I think this is looking wonderful. Maybe look to soften some edges like Degas did, if you are trying to copy it exactly. His use of lost and found edges was wonderful. Also use the side of the pastel stick, that will definitely give the soft edges much easier than using the tip of the pastel. It also looks like he might have varied the pressure he used when applying the pastel. His work is so wonderful, he is my favorite pastel master of years gone by. His work truly was just so beautiful.

Sonni
11-06-2011, 03:02 PM
It is also true that Degas used a form of Casein-based fixative, and often he would spray quite heavily so that the pastel would become drenched, almost runny, like paint, and if that is absolutely true, then it is most likely he would have had to wait for that sticky layer to dry before adding more pastel. I do not think it is safe to assume he worked quickly all the time.

Jackie, I've seen pastellists work wet into wet. The colors seem to be very intense at that stage, then they dry to the hue and value of the sticks. Do you know if Degas did this as well?

Colorix
11-06-2011, 03:35 PM
Sonni, as he tried about everything and anything...

JCorbet, he often used printing paper, or even tracing paper (both have virtually no tooth). This is now a problem, as the paper deteriorates, while the pastel is fine. Quite a nightmare for restorers.

robertsloan2
11-06-2011, 04:50 PM
This is looking good!

One thing about overseas companies shipping fixative. SpectraFix casein fixative comes in a concentrate. You may not be able to get the large pre-mixed bottle, but you can get the bottle of concentrate and the small mister for travel. Just buy some Everclear or cheap vodka locally, then mix the concentrate and clear white liquor in the bottle.

It's not only non-toxic and environmentally safe, it is non-explosive and can go on airplanes. I had to ship all of my spray cans with other varnishes and fixatives but my SpectraFix traveled in my luggage when I flew to move to San Francisco.

Your Degas copy looks very good! Deborah's right, you can put light over dark easily to accent the dancer's hair.

Dale, thanks for posting the picture of Degas' pastel box. That's amazing. I don't see any yellows in it - some good values but almost everything is pinks and blues. One stick in the back might be a light yellow. Maybe it's the photo, but it blows me away. Of course it also looks like he didn't clean his sticks so maybe some of them are other colors than they look.

Charlie's right, we're spoiled for choice these days and have so many beautiful colors and textures to use, both in surfaces and pastels. That's something I love about the medium - but this master work reminds me that I don't need to use everything I have. It's more important to use what's needed.

Harder pastels have just as many strong bright colors as softer ones, I've noticed. If anything, sometimes the hard and semi-hard pastels have a lot of brights. They're also less expensive and good for sketching. I've tried a variety of different brands and sort them into four or five texture categories.

Hard/semi-hard pastels like Nupastel, Gallery Semi-Hard, Richeson hard, etc.
Medium soft like Art Spectrum, Rembrandt, Winsor & Newton
Hand-rolled like Unisons, Mount Vision, Gallery Hand Rolled etc.
Soft like Sennelier, Terry Ludwig, Schminke etc.
Pumice - Diane Townsend and I heard, Roche also have pumice.

The pumice formulas are designed to tear up unsanded paper and give it more tooth. That's pretty cool about them so I put the Townsends into another category by themselves for that effect. I have one Townsend big oval green and liked its texture a lot, been thinking about getting a few more to use on unsanded paper someday.

I use the SpectraFix on anything I do with unsanded paper. Most sanded paper paintings don't need fixing, the paper grips the pastel hard and takes more layers.

JCorbet
11-07-2011, 10:36 AM
This is looking good!

One thing about overseas companies shipping fixative. SpectraFix casein fixative comes in a concentrate. You may not be able to get the large pre-mixed bottle, but you can get the bottle of concentrate and the small mister for travel. Just buy some Everclear or cheap vodka locally, then mix the concentrate and clear white liquor in the bottle.



Oh, I wonder if I can get someone to ship it to me then! That sounds great.

Thanks everyone for the feedback & advice. I'll definitely need to buy me some hard pastels.

sketchZ1ol
11-07-2011, 11:42 AM
hello
let me say at the top that your drawing skills are very good !
- control of the sticks should be fairly easy for you .

Lots of good info coming in !

i have a few Nouvel Carre sticks and they don't release the
pigment easily on paper , at least the one's i bought .
> hard pastels tend to push around the softer ones
and mess things up .

some inexpensive cologne/perfumes come in a spray applicator ,
usually with a finer spray nozzle than a plant sprayer .
- dump the liquid and wash it a few times with detergent
to get rid of the oils/esters , and the fragrance .
- use water or rubbing alcohol to mist the paper/pastel for the first layer or two .
> it may dull the colour some , but not much ,
the mist is easier to control than fixative which is pressurized ,
and is less likely to buckle the paper .

Degas may have used a mouth atomizer
which is available from some art supply stores .
one of the current art magazines lists it as a must-have tool
> that is to say , one quoted artist uses it frequently
in making his paintings .
- you can Wiki it to find out how it works .

welcome aboard , and hope to see more of your work :)

Ed :}

JCorbet
11-07-2011, 12:24 PM
hello


some inexpensive cologne/perfumes come in a spray applicator ,
usually with a finer spray nozzle than a plant sprayer .
- dump the liquid and wash it a few times with detergent
to get rid of the oils/esters , and the fragrance .
- use water or rubbing alcohol to mist the paper/pastel for the first layer or two .


Hmm, interesting. Thank you!

Colorix
11-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Hard pastels plow through soft pastels, and have a good use on top of softer ones when used for 'shaving' off excess dust, and for gentle 'blending' called 'feathering', and for 'glazing' thinly.

Ed, great tips about the cologne, a plant sprayer gives way too many droplets!

Re the 'straw atomizer': Do not inhale through it! Gives lots of droplets too. Unless artists nicked their girlfriends's perfume bottles, this was all they had to atomize liquids back then.

Deborah Secor
11-07-2011, 02:12 PM
Definitely order the SpectraFix! Get the little spray bottle they offer to send, as I have one and use it all the time for the nice spray it offers. (I use mine for water at the moment.) http://spectrafix.com/order.html

SpectraFix 2oz Concentrate for Travelers and Plein Aire artists
MAILABLE WORLDWIDE TO CANADA, EUROPE, JAPAN, MEXICO, AK, HI and PR.

As you see, Puerto Rico is included.

jackiesimmonds
11-07-2011, 06:34 PM
Charlie, great minds think alike....I thought "dead rat" immediately, when I saw his box, and my mind ran riot, with visions of him using the rat like some kind of torchon..............got the giggles actually.

I think it's a pretty good copy actually.........and with all the advice you have here, you should now be able to work out what your problem has been.

Sonni I am not sure exactly how he worked, but it would sound as tho he was kinda working wet into wet, I am about to check out Charlie's articles on her website, and then will get out my books too to check. I did read about him using steam too, to make his pastels runny.

As for sending Spectrafix abroad, I bet if you wrote to Della at Spectrafix, she would send some...she sent some over to me in the UK, by airmail, and I know she has recently sent over several crates of the stuff to be sold here, so whatever it contains, it must be safe to send.

Jackie

jackiesimmonds
11-07-2011, 06:37 PM
Incidentally, I always think of this box whenever we get to doing "show and tell" on this website and everyone proudly displays their amazing setups.

Having said that, I actually visited the Roche shop in Paris, (extraordinary experience) and had a long chat with the owner of the shop, who is directly related to the original owners. She said that actually, Degas used to buy almost every colour in the range, he had LOADS.

Nevertheless, one of the best artists here in the UK, on a trip to Israel which I was lucky enough to go on, would go out painting with a few paints and a small board, in a CARRIER BAG.

It is not what you got, it is what you DO with what you got.

allydoodle
11-07-2011, 07:37 PM
It is not what you got, it is what you DO with what you got.

No truer words.........

It's good to know Degas had loads of pastels, makes me feel better......:D

I've recently started giving lessons, and I'm finding that it is quite the challenge to paint with someone else's pastels, they don't always have what I'm familiar with, or what I would paint with, or use the same paper, so it is a challenge for me to produce something acceptable using materials I'm not as comfortable with. I'm experiencing the "what you do with what you got" syndrome, and I'm finding it very educational, to say the least. I think as a "teacher" I'm learning just like the student is, though different things, which is great. One never stops learning, a very good thing.

Colorix
11-08-2011, 06:29 AM
Jackie, it is said the English and the Swedes have the same sense of humour :-) Oh, and my articles, they are just that, my somewhat educated guesses at what seems reasonable -- not scientific papers.

Good to know from Roché that he used lots of colours. It seems pretty obvious looking at his paintings that his box shows nowhere near what he had. (Maybe that's what's left after he willed the gems to other artists?) I was thinking it is a museum display, set up by someone who has no inkling of what the artist used and needed. Could be a travel-box, too.

Chris, in Sweden, we have a saying "you learn as long as you have students" (a pun on "you learn as long as you live"). Congrats to having students!

Pastel painters can also 'mix' (read: layer) to get the colour we want. We are not restricted to what's in a set. I can't for the life of me see that there would be a need for collections of thousands of sticks, when about one hundred is plenty and above.

sketchZ1ol
11-08-2011, 02:39 PM
hello
if you are thinking about steaming paper to imbed the pastel crystals ,
from a tea kettle spout or a simmering pot of water
or your own idea ,
papers are made from a slurry of fiber , water , and starch/glutens either part of or added to the mix ,
then compressed to force out the water .
when steamed it will swell ( like boiled pasta )
and the paper will likely buckle as it redries , so
the paper is first soaked in water , then taped down to a board like preparing some watercolour papers .

just to save you a bad surprise if you haven't used steam yet .

Ed :}

ps. maybe why Degas tried casein with a mouth atomizer ...

the drover's dog
11-08-2011, 11:13 PM
Using steam is no problem when using the acrylic coated sanded surfaces like Colourfix. I often use steam with no ill effects. Not sure it actually has any benefit though.

Dale

robertsloan2
11-08-2011, 11:49 PM
Jackie, thank you for the Roche quote. I feel better now. Degas wasn't some master of inhuman self control passing up hundreds of delicious colors to sternly stay with his one limited palette. More like us.

One of the things I noticed when I started getting more pastels is that past a certain point, having lots of colors makes it easier to enjoy playing with different limited palettes. They're just not the same ones every time.

I remember as a kid seeing these blazing ultramarine strokes and pinks in so many different masters' pastels, loving that wild color, then being thrilled when my first 30 color Grumbacher assortment included that brilliant blue-violet.

Blick carries the mouth atomizers, they work with any liquid fixative. I bought it because my Maimeri gouache came with a bottle of liquid fixative. But the mister bottle for SpectraFix produces a beautiful fine spray, that's easier to use and not that expensive. Also not as annoying as aerosol sprays. Those will sputter and spit sometimes too.

jackiesimmonds
11-11-2011, 04:39 AM
Someone asked if Degas painted into wet.

I am doing a report for The Artist mag (UK) on Spectrafix and Della is sending me lots of info re Degas, which I will use. She says that he often actually DIPPED his pastels into wet stuff before working with them, as well as steaming and spraying. Sounds like he was quite an experimenter. If I find anything new in her info, will let you know.

J

Colorix
11-11-2011, 04:48 AM
He dipped (in anything from water to resins), he sprayed, he steamed, he mixed media -- but it was reported by a conservator that the top layer(s) were left dry and powdery. (Or, dried from dipped in water, conceivably.)