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CLS Portrait Artist
10-06-2011, 11:35 AM
As my supply of Wallis Pastel Paper, that I purchased in 2007, is running low I was getting ready to put in an order for more when I discovered that there has been problems with the newer batches of Wallis paper.

Does anyone know if these problems have been resolved or should I purchase UArt pastel paper instead?

Davkin
10-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Have you used Uart before? It's a good paper, comparable to Wallis except for two things. First, you can get Wallis in white, whereas Uart comes in a slight beige color. Second, Uart has a pretty distinct machine made texture, almost kinda like a canvas weave and that's really the only thing I don't like about it but since I bought a roll of it I'll be using it for quite a while. :) I'm unaware of the Wallis problems.

David

IMaybe
10-06-2011, 02:35 PM
:) You should go ahead and give Uart a try. I use both kinds, and really favor the Uart because if you want to do a watercolor or any wet under painting of any kind, the Uart will lie flat - - -no buckleing-----Wallis will unless dry mounted to foamcor or gator board - - -Uart will lie flat even when not held flat by any mounting. I use it for outdoor paintings sometimes as well as some larger ones in the studio. I do like Wallis, and use the Beligum mist color, mounted, because I really like this color for a support. The lighter shade of the Uart is so neat, because if you use a watercoor underwash, the color of the paper makes a great color for the sunshine areas of the painting. (I hope thats not hard to understand)----I paint with a purple watercolor for the shadow, or dark area's of the painting, purple hides right under any color and if seen, makes a great shadow. Anyhow, You can get Uart in sheets (for a try) from Daniel Smiths catalog----or PM UTom , he can set you up with free samples like he did for me a few years ago!!! Yay UTom!!

Davkin
10-06-2011, 02:44 PM
I didn't know Wallis had to be mounted to avoid buckling. I have to mount my Uart as well because it came on a roll so the only way to get it to lie flat is mount it.

David

allydoodle
10-06-2011, 04:40 PM
I didn't know Wallis had to be mounted to avoid buckling. I have to mount my Uart as well because it came on a roll so the only way to get it to lie flat is mount it.

David

Hi David,

Though the Wallis Pro needs to be mounted to avoid buckling, I've heard the Wallis Museum Grade does not buckle at all. I think it is because the Pro is made with acid free card stock, and the Museum is made with watercolor paper. Not positive, but I think I'm right. I've had a devil of a time trying to straighten out buckles on Wallis Pro, so much so that I won't wet it anymore. I'll buy some Museum Grade and do it on that I think. I've never done more than an alcohol spray on Uart, so I don't know what would happen if I wet it.

robertsloan2
10-06-2011, 05:41 PM
Momentary glitch - it seems I don't have permission to access NewReply on this server.???

I've tried Wallis Museum with wet underpaintings and no problems. At the very least it dries completely flat. I usually leave a margin around the painting area though.

Lisa Fiore
10-06-2011, 07:37 PM
I much prefer UART to Wallis, although I don't mind the Wallis Belgian Mist...

Lynndidj
10-06-2011, 10:18 PM
Some time ago I know of some artists who had some issues with the quality control of the Wallis paper - they said it wasn't consistent. I have not used that much of it to know one way or the other. I also have used UArt, and like it very much. When doing a watercolor underpainting I always have my paper mounted - I can't stand getting a great underpainting and having it buckle. For me, the best thing in the world would be if UArt 400 came in white. I also do watercolor, so the underpainting is very important for me - almost as important as the pastel. I use transparent watercolors and I like it when the white of the paper shines back through the color. I just can't get that same result with UArt because of the color.

Another option is to use 300 lb hot press Arches watercolor paper with several layers of pastel ground painted onto it. When I get to paint again, that is going to be my next experimental process.

Lynn

Barbara WC
10-06-2011, 11:50 PM
I'm not using heavily sanded papers anymore, prefering PastelMat or Canson Mi-teintes for my work, but wanted to mention that UArt also comes in boards, which is nice.

Back when I was using UArt, I never had a problem with buckling when using watercolor or gouache underpaintings with the paper.

I too wrote to UArt a couple of years ago like IMaybe, and they sent me some really nice samples of their papers and boards (not very big, small square pieces, but good enough to test the differnt grits).

UArt also now comes in a gritter surface- I think probably even toothier than Wallis, although I haven't tried the new grits myself.

Edited to add: I'm not a huge Wallis fan, sorry I can't help more with your original question...

blowell
12-04-2011, 04:25 PM
I love Wallis paper and have used it exclusively for the last year. I have not noticed buckling or inconsistency and I am at my wits end since the paper is now not available. I've heard from some suppliers that there is a production or facilities issue and that it will be available again - meanwhile my order has been on back order since September. I'm frustrated that I can't get a straight answer from anyone about when (and if) it will actually be available again. I use chalk pastels - I tried painting white Wallis with an acrulic wash (no problems with buckling) but if the wash is too thick, I lose the tooth.

I got some UArt paper and ordered the styrongest grit, but it's got nowhere near the tooth of Wallis - I've done a few tests with the UArt but I still prefer Wallis. :crying:

Good Luck!

Dougwas
12-04-2011, 05:10 PM
It looks like Dakota Pastels has Wallis in stock. I switched to UArt because of the buckling in Wallis Pro. No problem with UArt 400 gritt. We all have our favorites, don't we?:) Check out Dakota and I think you will find your favorite.

Doug

Dcam
12-04-2011, 06:45 PM
Just my 2 cents: I make my own sanded paper and will never go back to that expensive stuff. The great Daniel Greene makes his own.
:)

pointy
12-04-2011, 07:14 PM
if its available I thoroughly recommend giving AS colourfix a go, it has lots of tooth and comes in every colour you could ask for including white. I have had some buckling with watercolour before but I think that was more because I was messy and got water everywhere, on the border etc I have never had a problem with alcohol wash or oil understain. Also the AS primer in a jar applied to board or foam core works just as well and is really economical:)

Dcam
12-04-2011, 09:35 PM
A product I must mention is liquitex clear gesso. It is not just a clear medium. When it drys it has a wonderful tooth for pastel. You can tint it with almost any water based paint. One thing I have done with this is a complete charcoal drawing, sprayed it with fix then coated it with the liquitex, and when dry, painted my complete pastel painting over the drawing.
Good Stuff.
Happy painting.
Derek:wave:

Lynndidj
12-05-2011, 12:44 AM
Derek - just to clarify - just the gesso itself has tooth? No additives? I've never had gesso that wasn't really smooth before.

Lynn

japonaise
12-05-2011, 01:20 AM
UArt has two new grits 3 new grades with more tooth: 240, 280, and 320. Has anyone tried these new surfaces? Does anyone know which retailers have them in stock?

Dcam
12-05-2011, 11:11 AM
The term gesso is misleading: this stuff is crystal clear Lynn.:)

Mike_Beeman
12-05-2011, 11:29 AM
Great thread! Have enjoyed both papers and really like the beige tone of the Uart...I've only used #600 grit and find it very close to the Belgium Mist wallis...I believe both are very similar in price but have heard that the Wallis may be hard to get at times.

blowell
12-05-2011, 03:48 PM
THANK YOU Dougwas! I called Dakota - didn't want to get my hopes up because every other place I contacted had Wallis on their inventory list but when I ordered they were out. I ordered a LOT in case there's a delay in production again - they said they are usually first on the list to get the paper from Wallis. I had not heard of Dakota before but am excited to get their new catalog. Thanks again!:clap:

blowell
12-05-2011, 04:04 PM
I ordered my uArt from Dick Blick but they had only 400 and 800 grit. I did just check Dakota after reading about the new grits of UArt so I checked with them - they have grits ranging from 280 - 800.

KarenB
12-05-2011, 05:12 PM
Hi guys,

Thank you for this very timely (for me) thread! Jerry's is having a 3 day 20% off sale, but you have to order over $169 for it to kick in. They have the Girault pastels (singles only) that will qualify for a discount (VERY rare to get a 20% discount on Girault!!!) and they are my new heart's desire, but I don't really need $169 worth of them.....(or do I!!!!) :evil:

Long story short, Jerry's also has rolls of UArt that can be back ordered to fill out the rest of my order, to qualify for the discount. When I was trying to figure out how heavy the UArt paper is, I was redirected by Jerry's staff to the UArt web site:

http://www.uartpastelpaper.com/default.asp

This is a wonderful home page! Calm, relaxing piano music, with an ongoing slide show of lovely, lovely work that many artists have created using UArt as their base. The slide show also usually describes the grit that is used on each picture, so is informative, as well.

(Commercial disclaimer: no association with the above companies. Just a happy customer.)

My 2 cents. I like both Wallis and UArt. But have only tried UArt on the mounted boards from Dakota. It was moderately difficult to frame the board with a mat, as I had pastel within 1/4" of the edge, but it needed a mat aesthetically. The board was so thick, I had to use an additional mat with a cut out exactly the same size as the picture to support it. (Is that very clear?)

Of course, I'm a beginner, so adequate planning (leaving an empty area for the mat, or using spacers and a wide frame and no mat) would have helped.

Using a liquid ground...I tried it at a class a couple of weeks ago...I could see how using the strokes of the brush to apply it could be an additional technique to get texture in the picture, especially if the picture was planned and sketched on the ground before the application of the gesso/grit mixture or Fine Tooth Primer. But I didn't care for the little lines and ridges that grabbed more pastel. I was the grumbling student, moaning about how difficult it was to make my sky smooth. (Mostly beneath my breath. :-) But not always. :cat:

Derek--do you use a roller to apply it? My teacher assured me many artists use this method and are very successful with it. :confused:

Dougwas
12-05-2011, 05:28 PM
I am glad you got what you wanted. Dakota is the first place I check when I want pastels or pastel paper. They probably have the best selection around. Their prices are decent and I have always had good service with them.

Happy painting.

Doug

Dcam
12-05-2011, 06:58 PM
Hi Karen: I apply with a soft brush in one direction......let dry, Then apply in the other direction. This will give an even texture (tooth). I have also just applied it in various directions, but two coats. I like the even tooth, best.
Good Luck.
Derek

Winny Kerr
12-05-2011, 08:45 PM
Like Derek...I coat mattboard or Gessoed Artist panels with a few coats of Clear Liquitex gesso...I roll it on with a cheap small sponge roller (from Lowes or Home Depot in their paint brush section) and it works beautifully. Saves a lot $$$.

chuas2
12-05-2011, 09:23 PM
..But I didn't care for the little lines and ridges that grabbed more pastel. I was the grumbling student, moaning about how difficult it was to make my sky smooth. (Mostly beneath my breath. :-) But not always. :cat:

Derek--do you use a roller to apply it? My teacher assured me many artists use this method and are very successful with it. :confused:
Karen,
I use clear gesso often and don't like the ridges either. I use a brush, and dot it on various points on the paper (and just a tiny bit!), then brush the heck out of it. Takes a lot of elbow grease and patience, but if you go all one way and then the other way, over and over and you get a super thin completely smooth layer. Then, when that's completely dry, you can apply another layer if you like.

KarenB
12-06-2011, 01:56 AM
I'll give it another try. :-) It's way cheaper, for certain.

chewie
12-13-2011, 07:01 PM
hmm. not sure if its cheaper. my time is worth alot too.

Xenoblastic
03-04-2012, 03:08 AM
I've been using Wallis pro for a year and never had any trouble with washing/reusing it. For I workshop I had to buy Wallis museum and when I washed it off, the tooth came off of it. Is that normal for the museum grade?

jackiesimmonds
03-04-2012, 03:26 AM
Wallis Museum does not buckle in the same way as Wallis Pro.

However, if you have not tried it, you could have a go with Canson Mi Teinte Touch, which has a wonderful surface, and it will accept watercolour washes too. Comes in great colours, and in various weights. I did a review for The Artist UK, and had to test it, so I know it is good. I really liked it, despite being a firm fan of Wallis.

robertsloan2
03-04-2012, 06:10 AM
I've used AS Colourfix primer and it's got a gentler tooth than Wallis - it's exactly like AS Colourfix papers and comes in all 20 colors. Clear is naturally the most versatile, with hot or cold press watercolor the pints go a long way. I was turning a couple of watercolor spiral journals into pastel journals with it.

When I moved I packed my Colourfix primers too late, but I did pack the AS Colourfix Supertooth. It's clear like the AS Colourfix Clear Primer, but it's got much deeper tooth - a feel like Wallis but not quite as extreme.

It makes sense to me that Wallis Pro buckles but Wallis Museum doesn't. Museum is printed onto 100% rag watercolor paper and Pro onto heavy card that isn't sized for water - so that could be the problem with the buckling right there. I haven't had any buckling with Wallis Museum.

Though it makes sense that if Pro is mounted to a board it can be kept from buckling with wet washes.