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View Full Version : Can somebody pls explain why DVDs cost more than books?


the drover's dog
09-22-2011, 04:10 AM
I've been wondering for ages why the instructional DVDs such as those featuring Richard McKinley and Maggie Price, cost almost double what their books sell for. This just doesn't make sense when one considers the higher production costs and materials associated with print media.

Enlightenment please?

Dale

bluefish
09-22-2011, 07:54 AM
it's called 'Marketing'.......get what the bearer will pay........

DVD's are the new, modern technology, therefore bring a premium price, Books are old technology and therefore are discounted to get them off the shelf......

hope this clears it up for you......:wave:

the drover's dog
09-22-2011, 08:03 AM
Cynic :D

Dale

bluefish
09-22-2011, 08:11 AM
no, not 'Cynic'......I'm a 'Realist' and that's how it is in the big, real world......:thumbsup::)

allydoodle
09-22-2011, 08:38 AM
My first thought was....................."because they can",

..........which is pretty much what 'blue said :lol: . I would think it takes less time to film a DVD than it does to write a book, so time is not the issue. I also wouldn't think it costs all that much to actually make the recording (digital age and all that, no film). The actual cost of the DVD has to be less than the cost of a book, so no extra dollars there. Marketing costs should be about the same. Shelf space is less for a DVD, so that costs less, not more. Shipping cost to the stores should be less, the DVD's are much lighter than books.......... this is starting to make me mad actually :( :lol: .......,

Ergo, my first thought "because they can" still stands...... which is why I own very few DVDs, just two in fact. Albert Handel's and Richard McKinley's are the two I own. After watching them both (excellent DVD's I might add), I find that I still generally go to books before watching DVD's over and over. Sort of like watching a movie over and over, I get bored. Books, on the other hand, I never get bored of for some reason. I guess because I'm an avid reader. And, I cannot justify the cost of the DVD's. In my mind if I can get as much out of a book, then why spend the money? I know not all teaching artists have both books and DVD's (McKinley just recently published a book, his first, yet he had one DVD (maybe two?) out prior, which was why I have the DVD, there was no book available). Albert Handell is the "holy grail painter" of capturing light in pastel landscapes IMHO, so I have his book, and one of his DVD's. I guess I need to buy McKinley's book so my collection is 'fair and balanced' :lol: , I just might.

A long explaination to a simple answer "because they can........"

DAK723
09-22-2011, 09:17 AM
Yes, people are willing to pay more. If no one buys them at the prices that they try to sell them for, you can be sure the price will come down.

Since art how-to DVDs are somewhat of a specialty item, the prices have stayed high, compared to "popular culture" DVDs (like old TV shows) which have come down drastically in price since they first came on the market.

Personally, I wouldn't buy any at the prices they try to sell them at and have rented quite a few. Not sure if you have any rental places in Australia, but for US folks, Smartflix is a pretty good deal.

Don

Devonlass
09-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Don I've never heard of Smartfix, but I took a look and it seems like a great deal. We are in the process of trying to sell our house at the moment and move, but when we are settled again I'm going to revisit this idea. Thanks for the info.

the drover's dog
09-22-2011, 10:07 AM
What prompted this query was:

A. The exhorbitant cost of these art DVDs and I have to add $10 International postage for each and every one of them as they do not do combined shipping at you-know-where.

B. Looking at them I was wishing I could get the same content in a book. Like Chris, I reach for my books to read over and over again, but once through a DVD is more than I can stand.

C. I keep wanting to fast forward these DVDs no matter how good the content. I call this the "Waiting for paint to dry syndrome" - except I'm waiting for each scratch of the darn pastel stick or stroke of the brush.

D. I am congenitally unable to learn anything by watching a DVD tutorial on any subject you can name. Hopeless! Give me the printed word or a live workshop and I soak it up like a sponge. I even get the fidgets watching the trailer promos for the DVDs.

Dale

NC-artist
09-22-2011, 10:07 AM
I've noticed this too and if it weren't for the price, I'd be a frequent buyer as I learn best by watching visuals so much better than by reading.

The Smartflix idea is a really good one (thanks!).

Perhaps one day the price will come down so more people can afford them.

bluefish
09-22-2011, 10:24 AM
Dale......when your paintings start to sell, you will get a good feeling for the 'Marketing Concept'......you get as much as the public is willing to pay.....not how many hours you put into a painting or how many pastel sticks you used up........if they want 'Sunflowers', than you whip out a series of Van Gogh beauties and charge nice prices for them.....

and 'Marketing' is Universal.....here, down under, across the pond and in the far east......"it's all what they are willing to pay"!........:wink2:

Davkin
09-22-2011, 10:40 AM
I've always wondered the same thing, so I buy most of my DVD's off ebay when they are selling for a reasonable price. There's just no way I'll ever pay $75-$95 for a DVD even if it is four hours long. I can't say I learn more or less from them, it depends on the instructor but usually I learn something from them I can't learn from reading a book. However, some instructors really should not do DVD's, my most recent purchase comes to mind.....

David

Kathryn Wilson
09-22-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm the Librarian for the Pastel Society of NC and I buy DVD's for the membership to rent out - I have bought all of the DVDs on Ebay.

I'm just the opposite on reading or watching - I'd rather watch than read (although I am an avid reader of other books). I have a tremendous library of pastel books that I hardly ever crack open any more.

I've watched Albert Handell's DVD many times and always garner something I haven't seen before. Bob Rohm's water DVDs are excellent - those are the four DVD's I own for myself. I bought Handell's oil DVD also and there is always something to learn even if it is an oil painting.

I agree with Dave, though, the last DVD I bought was a big snooze.

Colorix
09-22-2011, 12:41 PM
I'd like to hear from The Expert (we have one here, and I hope he'll chime in -- are you there, Phil?) I bet there are costs we don't think about, like camera crew (probably at least 2 ppl, and ppl are expensive), the cost of the fine hi-res superduper camera and editing equipment and the likes. I can't imagine a session is a one take, there's bound to be a lot of cutting needed.

I mean, it is not just point the laptop vid-cam towards the easel. We've all seen those on youtube, and they usually su... -- are lacking.

Writing a book is quite often unpaid labour, over many months, but it can be done on the laptop, and as the author doesn't get paid for time, but for the product....

There does seem to be an unbalance, though, as it seems to me a book is more labour intensive.

I tend to fall asleep watching paint dry. I really don't need to see every stroke blocking in one mass, not to speak of every stroke for blocking in seven masses -- start and finish of block-in would do quite well, thank you. I also tend to fall asleep when there is no voice, just that scritchy-scratchy noice of pastel applied to board. There's a thing like voice over (I think it is called), where the artist can explain what they do after the main shot.

Gimme a book, anytime! On paper. I underline, make notes in the margin.

And, as books are marketed as books (containing info), the dvd's are often marketed as "bring a workshop to your home", and compared to workshop prices, the dvds are cheap, right? So we're meant to compare those prices, not compare with books. We are to believe a dvd contains more and better stuff.

There are a few really good demonstrations and lecturing dvds out there.

And some demonstrations that probably should have remained ideas.

sketchZ1ol
09-22-2011, 12:46 PM
hello
too many cynics
too little thought .

because

as i'm composing this text
to make it quick scan ,
a visual moving in real time
can have much more info
and sync with thought
( and why there's a Rewind/Slow button on the player)
= more info .

someone who can script ,
film ,
edit ,
and produce the video
will make good money
but each of those
is a separate skill
and deserves compensation
= higher cost .

it's a movie .

Ed :}

ps . just caught Charlie's post .
an artist who has
recognition
respect
demand
gets his/her price
And teaches
can only be in so many places at once
and honor their commitments/commissions .

otherwise , your word is poo .

the drover's dog
09-22-2011, 01:51 PM
Oh come on Ed. You really don't expect me, to swallow the fact that making a video is more costly than printing a book. For heavens sake, when making a DVD tutorial they pay some struggling artist peanuts to do the thing and they sweat blood over what they will say and do. No scripting involved on the part of the producer. Some of these artists are conned into doing it to promote their "name" and don't get paid a bean. You can hire a suitable camera by the day if you don't happen to own one and their cost is peanuts compared to a printing press or a commercial movie film camera. Then you have a day's pay for a camera man and in the rare event that they are feeling very flash, a soundman too. The director/producer thinks about the project off and on for a couple of days - say 8 hours labour tops. Somebody spends a few hours editing the thing and then it's just a matter of buying a bulk lot of DVDs and burning to them with a few hundred dollars worth of commercial burning software and equipment. Run off a few labels on a laser printer and then try and flog them off at vastly over inflated prices. Distribution costs are minimal too.

Now look at the print trade: Think of the massive capital investment in the presses. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in this alone and depending on the size of the operation, it can run into millions of dollars. Then there's the cost of good coated stock paper, the cost of the colour separations and producing the film for the presses. Then there's the labour of the typesetter, (yep! They are still called that even though they never see any lead type these days), art deptment personel for the layout and design, proof readers, editor, photographer/s, binding costs including labour, cost of the cover stock, distribution, promotion etc.etc. Not to mention royalties to the writer (even though they be pathetic and never are commensurate with the effort involved, unless it be a runaway successful novel), and the fact that the bookseller buys the book at a lot less cost than we pay for it.

No way is a DVD tutorial on the same scale and quality as a movie. Ridiculous to suggest that they are comparable. I know this Ed because I've been involved in the print media for decades and also had a brief dabble in television media.

No, the cynics are right, we are just gullible fools for buying DVDs at over inflated prices. Phil is not going to like this post either!

Dale

Davkin
09-22-2011, 02:34 PM
I agree Dale. It's not that a quality DVD production does not require talented and skilled people to pull it off, it's that it really doesn't require any more than a book, (probably far fewer man hours really), so the question is why do they charge more for it and I think the only real reason is they can. The market simply allows it. There's a perceived higher value because it's a "movie" rather than just printed words and photos. While I agree either can be valuable instruction I personally don't see where the instruction on DVD is any more valuable, it's just different. I think the name often sells these DVD's as well. I won't name the name but one artist in particular has a series of DVD's for $75 each off his website, two of them have awful sound and are really quite torturous to watch, personally I think that artist should recall those DVD's, he really should be ashamed. Luckily I got them quite inexpensive off ebay and they were almost worth what I paid for them. In contrast, there's Greg Biolchini's video. I paid full price for that one, but the price is reasonable, about the same as a book and it was well worth it, so kudos to him for producing and selling a quality product at a reasonable price and not taking advantage of the market just because he can.

David

Colorix
09-22-2011, 03:49 PM
hey, Dale, you do know the processes, thoroughly, that was really informative, thanks.

They don't pay the artists? =:-O The camera crew sure gets paid, and per hour...

Another topic, but I do have to say that artists undermine their own market, and that of other artists, if they do things that commercial firms earn money by, and provide it to them for free. (Not talking about free sharing to fellow artists, like here on WC.)

bluefish
09-22-2011, 04:23 PM
Wow Dale......you really stirred up a hornet's nest......now relax, it's a free world economy, those that will pay inflated prices for DVD's will continue to do so until a XZZ does the same thing in their Ipad 6........and those of us with silver tinged hair will still buy and enjoy our books...:thumbsup:

ain't 'marketing' wonderful......:D

westcoast_Mike
09-22-2011, 05:22 PM
Well, I suspect it comes down to how each are being made, what the contractual arraignment with the Artist is and how many are being made. For the printed material, the Publish almost never has any Capital Investment in iron. They will either bid it out to a Commercial printer or have a contractual arraignment with one. Files are usually delivered to the printer in electronic format with along with a hardcopy proof. Color separation is rarely done by the Customer as each press has its own profile that that the Printer will use. Film is rarely used anymore. Most printers have gone direct to plate. From there, itís a matter of economics. What size is the run, what stock is specified and how many colors etc. The Printer will work with the Client to meet his budget and needs as well as trying to ensure a profit. Emphasis on trying. Iíd hate to have to go back to trying to make a living at it.
As to a DVD, well itís not quite as simple as burning one on your PC at home. First a Master is made. This is a hard archival disc with a glass coating and the information on it. A lot of this has to be done in a Clean Room. The Master, often called a Farther, is then used to make Mothers which will be used to replicate the DVDís. From there, itís presentation and packaging. Will the DVD be printed on. Will it go in a simple sleeve or a jewel case. A lot of this ďkit assemblyĒ as its called is every bit as labor intensive as Bindery work in the Printing Industry. Will a printed cover need to be made for the case to slip into.
Both process have quite a bit of investment in hardware to do it right. Iíve also seen both priced accordingly. Artist whose books cost more than their DVDís and reverse. What will happen more often in the future and drive DVD costs down is the same thing that is driving book prices down. That is downloadable DVDís. A lot of software manufacturers are already doing it.

robertsloan2
09-22-2011, 06:15 PM
I don't know about the production costs. There are a lot of people involved in producing a video who aren't there in producing a print book. Two camera operators, at least one editor, a lighting expert, a set designer, various people who run around and set things up. Whoever orders the supplies for the video.

Someone needs to script and direct it too. I've tried just speaking spontaneously while making my own amateur videos and without at least a plan of a script, I'll forget to say anything and just draw for long periods of dead air.

I don't think the artists are bringing their own supplies. Most of the time it looks like they have brand new tools and materials, the palettes are sparkling white and unstained on paint videos. It's only on pastels videos that the artist's kit looks like they just brought in their usual pastel box and set it up.

I don't know what the profit margin is on videos. They may be the cash cow of everything the company produces, supporting products that pay out slower. Or they may be something expensive that also help promote the books. Or they're priced to be about comparable.

The one thing I realized is that the cheapest way for me to get them was to subscribe to artistsnetworktv. That gets most of the ones I'm interested in. There are still a few DVDs that come out from other companies that I want, but I tend to put them off with a regular stream of good new videos all the time.

I tried it during a four day free trial and watched about 30 of them during those four days. They run that promotion several times a year, someone who has no spending money but online access can get a lot of good instruction just using the free trial. At the end of it, I totaled up the ones I wanted to see again and would probably buy. It was a whole lot cheaper to just subscribe, so I kept up my subscription.

I still get tempted when I see them on sale. I also get tempted by the compilation CDs of my three favorite art magazines, that's a little higher on my priority list right now. My back issues are all in Arkansas because I focused mostly on supplies when I packed.

I hope the artists get the same royalty package they do with their books. Most of them are authors of companion books. The last thing I wonder about with costs is whether the company pays their travel expenses to get to the studio, eat and stay at a hotel during the filming. That could run pretty high too and would be a necessary expense.

I'm sure that for both media there's a point at which all the overhead costs including the author's advance pay out and the products generate pure profit. One thing I like about North Light is that they'll keep good titles available for years instead of their vanishing a year after they appear. If I don't have the money for something I want, I'll wait till I do and with other types of books they go out of print too fast.

DAK723
09-22-2011, 06:16 PM
No, the cynics are right, we are just gullible fools for buying DVDs at over inflated prices.
Dale

Well, I was one of the original cynics, but upon further thought, I think it is not quite so simple.

I have no idea how many artist DVDs are sold, but I can't believe the number is very high. This is a specialty market. Probably a best selling DVD by a well known artist might sell a couple thousand copies at most? Probably not even that many. Again, I have no idea, but if they only charged $10 to $20 a copy, the whole enterprise would probably lose money or make a very limited profit. A specialty item for a very limited audience costs more or it is not worth selling. We can't expect the same type of price that a hit TV show or movie sells for when they can sell millions of copies.

Don

Davkin
09-22-2011, 06:42 PM
Well, I was one of the original cynics, but upon further thought, I think it is not quite so simple.

I have no idea how many artist DVDs are sold, but I can't believe the number is very high. This is a specialty market. Probably a best selling DVD by a well known artist might sell a couple thousand copies at most? Probably not even that many. Again, I have no idea, but if they only charged $10 to $20 a copy, the whole enterprise would probably lose money or make a very limited profit. A specialty item for a very limited audience costs more or it is not worth selling. We can't expect the same type of price that a hit TV show or movie sells for when they can sell millions of copies.

Don

I agree we are a niche market, but I see DVD's selling for other markets that are even smaller than us, some much smaller in the $20-$30 range. Why do some art DVD's cost $25 or $30 and some $75 or even $95? From what I can tell it has nothing to do with quality or length, I do beleive it's as simple as marketing. As long as there are enough people willing to pay the prices there are people that will gladly take their money. I don't begrudge them for it really, (I do beleive in capitalism as long as the market isn't being manipulated) but they won't be getting any of my money, I just flat refuse to pay that much for a DVD, but I'm kinda cheap. :D

David

Colorix
09-23-2011, 10:14 AM
Scuse me, Ed, whose word is the p-word?

hello
too many cynics
too little thought .

....

ps . just caught Charlie's post .
an artist who has
recognition
respect
demand
gets his/her price
And teaches
can only be in so many places at once
and honor their commitments/commissions .

otherwise , your word is poo .

Kathryn Wilson
09-23-2011, 10:47 AM
There's so many ways to look at this question. When they first came out, it must have been quite a revelation. Just think, I could watch Albert Handell any time I wanted to. When Bob Rohm came out with his first one, he showed the underpainting technique that was just starting to catch on. Invaluable at the time, but since more and more DVD's are coming out those prices will drop.

Someone mentioned compared to a full-blown workshop, this is cheap and it certainly is with the cost of any workshop going over $1,000 (workshop, travel costs, meals, accommodations).

And last, publication of books is on the decline - printing is too expensive and you will see more and more books going on the likes of Kindle.

I think it's a supply and demand thing - fewer DVD's - popularity of the artist, can't afford a workshop buy a DVD.

I think Richard McKinley was smart with this last book - it included a DVD - covering both bases. A good alternative to attending a workshop (you wish) where they are now holding lotteries to get a spot in his workshops.

*Deirdre*
09-23-2011, 10:56 AM
Scuse me, Ed, whose word is the p-word?
I thought Ed was referring to the fact that unless you are well known, as an artist, your word will not be marketable...so if I was to write a book or make a DVD it would not exactly fly off the shelf like a Maggie Price book or DVD!:D

japonaise
09-23-2011, 01:12 PM
My 2 cents - Everybody contributing to this thread is correct.

To distill it: Consider a book written by ... let's say ... Stephen Ambrose, about WWII. He is an award winning writer with excellent credentials, and a WWII history effects all of us around the globe. So, great numbers of readers in Austrailia, England, Canada, Sweden, Brazil, Austria, the US, etc., will find the book of interest. Therefore, the publisher will print 100s of 1000s of copies of an Ambrose book, which drives down the per book price.

Juxtapose Stephen Ambrose with...lets say... Albert Handell, who is a fantastic artist with excellent credentials, but working in the medium of pastel, which effects only a very small group on a world wide basis. Therefore, the publisher of a Handell DVD will print only 100s of copies, therefore elevating the DVD price.

And, no WC commemts are "poo". However, we might feel as though they are poo if we upfronted the money to produce a book or DVD and only a very few people bought either because we did not have the name recognition/credentials to sell 10 copies, let alone 100s, 1000s or 100s of 1000s of copies.

Maybe we should ask WC to include a video section - like a YouTube feature - proprietary to WC, and we (rather, some of us) can create our own videos to share on the site. J

Phil Bates
09-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread.

*sigh* Not sure where to start. The question should really be: How can they sell books so cheap compared to DVDs?

The only reason is because of the huge volume of sales. Publishing is big business, with big distribution, solid sales channels.

DVD manufacturing and distribution is small time compared to this, mostly done with mom and pop shops struggling to keep profitable. When you produce in small quantities, the cost of goods goes way up. They cannot be compared as if all things were equal, they are not.

With book sales, the artist royalties are around 10% or less. With DVDs it hovers around 40-50% (the ones I know of). BIG DIFFERENCE: apples and oranges. When you send the DVDs to a distributer, cut the total in half again. Considering the cost of goods the pie slices get thin pretty quickly.

I agree that the quality of most DVDs is appallingly bad and I am embarrassed when I watch most of them. That said, I was determined to raise the bar. When I produced the Dawn Emerson DVDs it was no a small undertaking and I think there is a bit of misunderstanding about this. Before shooting there were preproduction meetings involving time, travel and hotels. I spent thousands on studio rental space. More travel and hotels. I used $80,000 worth of camera equipment. I paid licensing fees for music, I paid for crew, I used thousands of dollars worth of stock footage (fortunately, I own the stock footage company so that was a freebie). But the big investment was time. I spent over 6 months editing the videos. Just EDITING. It is an incredibly time-consuming process. It felt like it was never going to end. I caught a lot of flack from the people around me for neglecting my other work. The cost still goes on I pay my assistant to manage sales. I admit it was all more than I expected.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not grippy, whining or complaining. I have a smile on my face, see? :) I love you all and I love the work I do, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I just don't see DVD producers getting rich compared to book authors. No one is scamming you and making exorbitant profits. Actually, I'd like to see some big profits! :) So in that respect, I don't see anything unfair about the pricing structure. I helped set the prices for the Dawn Emerson DVDs and believe me, if I thought I was being unfair, I wouldn't sleep well.

So, I don't see any of you being a fool or gullible for paying what you do for DVDs. Instead, I see everyone very fortunate that books cost as little as they do.

Phil

Davkin
09-23-2011, 01:58 PM
Phil, I've only seen the preview of your Dawn Emerson video and I'll grant you that in your case the quality is quite high and I don't doubt that it costs what you say it costs to produce a video of that quality. However, I don't often see anything approaching such high standards represented in most of the DVD's currently out there regardless of price. Like I said in another post, the quality of the video seems to have little to nothing to do with the pricing as I've seen duds at high prices and good quality at low prices. Frankly, since this is a niche market shouldn't the product be made to be priced to that market? I watched an art instruction video last night, (streaming, but available in DVD for a few dollars more) that only cost me $10 yet was much better quality, (albeit shorter) than another DVD that the artist charges $75 for off his website. This artist does most of his video and editing work himself with some help from his wife and you know what, it's good enough for art instruction. I can appreciate you wanting to raise the bar Phil, but maybe it's overkill for this market?

David

Phil Bates
09-23-2011, 02:19 PM
Phil, I've only seen the preview of your Dawn Emerson video and I'll grant you that in your case the quality is quite high and I don't doubt that it costs what you say it costs to produce a video of that quality. However, I don't often see anything approaching such high standards represented in most of the DVD's currently out there regardless of price. Like I said in another post, the quality of the video seems to have little to nothing to do with the pricing as I've seen duds at high prices and good quality at low prices. Frankly, since this is a niche market shouldn't the product be made to be priced to that market? I watched an art instruction video last night, (streaming, but available in DVD for a few dollars more) that only cost me $10 yet was much better quality, (albeit shorter) than another DVD that the artist charges $75 for off his website. This artist does most of his video and editing work himself with some help from his wife and you know what, it's good enough for art instruction. I can appreciate you wanting to raise the bar Phil, but maybe it's overkill for this market?

David

I hear what you are saying about the imbalance between duds and quality, low and high prices. There are other factors that may compensate, like power of the brand (artist name) or distribution deal, royalty deal, etc. Lots of things behind the curtain that we don't know. Still, the customer is not powerless, and market pressures will come to bear and help adjust the inconsistencies.

In my case, I didn't expect the DVD quality to cause my sales to spike significantly over other DVD sales. The market doesn't react that quickly. That would have taken a lot more DVDs, more years, more brand building, more turning of the business "flywheel". So, overkill in the short term, yes. In the long term, maybe not.

Also, the industry is in transition with the online videos. That business model uses a lower percentage (from what I've heard) to the artist compared to the DVD model. So we have yet to see how well the artist benefits. If they don't benefit enough, the bigger names will stay away and the online industry will suffer. Nothing is set in stone as yet. Still, I expect there to be pressure to lower DVD prices because of it.

Fun topic. :)

Phil

Davkin
09-23-2011, 02:47 PM
I hear what you are saying about the imbalance between duds and quality, low and high prices. There are other factors that may compensate, like power of the brand (artist name) or distribution deal, royalty deal, etc. Lots of things behind the curtain that we don't know. Still, the customer is not powerless, and market pressures will come to bear and help adjust the inconsistencies.

In my case, I didn't expect the DVD quality to cause my sales to spike significantly over other DVD sales. The market doesn't react that quickly. That would have taken a lot more DVDs, more years, more brand building, more turning of the business "flywheel". So, overkill in the short term, yes. In the long term, maybe not.

Also, the industry is in transition with the online videos. That business model uses a lower percentage (from what I've heard) to the artist compared to the DVD model. So we have yet to see how well the artist benefits. If they don't benefit enough, the bigger names will stay away and the online industry will suffer. Nothing is set in stone as yet. Still, I expect there to be pressure to lower DVD prices because of it.

Fun topic. :)

Phil

Thanks Phil, it's good to get some info from someone that's actually in the business even if, (or maybe especially because of) it's from behind the scenes. I guess you could say that art instruction DVD is still a fledgling industry that hasn't found it's balance yet.

David

Colorix
09-23-2011, 03:00 PM
Thank you, Phil. Like always, if one isn't in the business, one doesn't know how it works and what costs.

I've seen the Emerson DVDs, and Phil has made a work of art in the shooting/sound/editing.
I'm quite lyrical, it is so rare to see this kind of quality production. Is it an overkill? Probably. Most of us are focused on the how and why of what the artist does, and are happy with that, provided the image is nice and clear. I really appreciated the overkill, though.

sketchZ1ol
09-23-2011, 03:36 PM
hello

Charlie - you are teasing me , no ?

with the possibility of So much info thru the net
the commercial seems to stack up from page one .

am i wrong in concluding that long-standing members of
WC are unsettled by recent changes of structure ?

- one of my best/long friends is a press machanic ...
> build everything except the electronics .

Ed :}

Phil Bates
09-23-2011, 04:18 PM
Thank you, Phil. Like always, if one isn't in the business, one doesn't know how it works and what costs.

I've seen the Emerson DVDs, and Phil has made a work of art in the shooting/sound/editing.
I'm quite lyrical, it is so rare to see this kind of quality production. Is it an overkill? Probably. Most of us are focused on the how and why of what the artist does, and are happy with that, provided the image is nice and clear. I really appreciated the overkill, though.

Thanks Charlie!

You want to talk about overkill, the DE videos were shot and edited in HD. So, they are potentially ready to go in Blu-Ray with 4 times the resolution of standard TV. You can see the tiny shadows and variations of pastel coming off the stick. It's pretty immersive. Standard definition is a poor substitute. *sigh*

Without knowing demand, I thought it too risky to invest in Blu-Ray equipment. The jury's still out.

Phil

allydoodle
09-23-2011, 11:02 PM
Thanks for an indepth explaination Phil. Most DVD's are not as well structured and beautifully edited as Dawn Emerson's (I've seen it, and your work Phil is above and beyond most anything else I've seen). It is obvious to me why a DVD of this quality would be the price it is, it's certainly fair, and you get what you pay for (IMHO).

Not being in the industry myself, it is hard to know all the hidden costs. It sounds like there is more than meets the eye. I guess the average person doesn't really know everything that goes into producing a DVD, which affects the cost. And of course, if less are manufactured, the cost does have to go up. I just always thought it would be less expensive to make a DVD (music CD's aren't all that expensive, and you can get DVD's on sale at reasonable prices), so why are the instructional art DVD's so expensive? Publishing a book seems much more labor intensive, and the materials involved seem much more expensive to me. It didn't make sense.

Now I know. :D

robertsloan2
09-24-2011, 02:21 AM
Phil, thanks for confirming what I suspected about the video creation costs, especially for good videos. I haven't been disappointed in the artistsnetworktv ones but then I'm not trying to stream them in HD either. I guesstimated based on the amount of work that went into my doing my YouTube ones when they're pretty obviously amateur.

I just try to make them decent amateur productions and I've been working on improving them - but those are free and I do them mostly to draw attention to my site and articles, build name recognition.

Colorix
09-24-2011, 03:49 AM
Ed, not teasing, I truly didn't understand, so I asked. (I've found that to be a good method, ask and ye shalt be given a response of some kind.)

I'd say it is not structure as such (though we are creatures of habit and resist change), but attitude.

Robert, I think it is great that you discovered what you needed to do better with a demo. I'm sorry if I sounded like putting down that kind of effort, that was not my meaning at all -- I meant productions that are sold should not be of laptop webcam quality.

sketchZ1ol
09-24-2011, 08:47 AM
hello
Charlie - after reading my last post ,
it needed a proofreader and a content editor .
since neither are here, there's just one dumb person in the room typing this . :rolleyes: :)

Ed :}