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americreations
09-18-2011, 04:07 PM
Hello, I am new to acrylic painting and found a good deal for a set of Liquitex Heavy Body Professional grade acrylics and noticed that there are quite a few colors that have "Hue" in the title which are the following:

Alizarin Crimson Hue
Cadmium Red Light Hue
Cadmium Orange Hue
Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue
Hooker's Green Hue

I did do some reading on this forum about the "Hue" colors and that they use less expensive pigments to imitate the particular color. My question is I was wondering because Liquitex heavy body acrylics are professional grade, will those hue colors above do the job, or is there certain aspects that I need to be aware of regarding those particular paint colors?

I will definitely be getting the set due to the good deal, but I guess I need to know if I need to buy the non-hue colors of those listed above. Thanks for your help.

Oh, and why we're talking about colors, I was wondering what the difference is between Ivory Black and Mars Black. I have learned that Ivory Black does take awhile to dry, but not so sure about Mars black and what the pros and cons of each are? Thanks.

timelady
09-18-2011, 05:58 PM
Hues aren't necessarily less expensive pigments (though that is the general thought) but rather differnt pigments than the original - either for cost, improved performance, or due to the original no longer being accessible.

Alizarin Crimson Hue - I believe the original is fugitive. Most brands use a hue.
Hooker's Green Hue - a historic colour, not sure if it's inaccessible now as a pigment or fugitive, but most brands use a hue that is a combination of several modern pigments. (by the way, Liquitex's Hookers is my favourite, it's one of the only colours I buy from them :) )

Cadmium Red Light Hue
Cadmium Orange Hue
Cadmium Yellow Medium Hue

I can't see any reason the cadmiums are hues in a professional grade, however. My cadmiums are all real but I think Liquitex and Winsor are brands that offer both a hue and an original so you need to be careful when selecting. I know I've picked up a wrong cobalt hue by mistake in the past. Some people don't like to use cadmiums due toxicity so I think that's why an alternative is offered.

Tina.

OkeeKat
09-18-2011, 06:33 PM
I use ONLY Liquitex Heavy Body Prof Grade Paints and LOVE ALL the colors, I too use many Hue's,
Cad red Light Hue, Cad Yellow Med Hue,Naples Yellow Hue, Cad Orange Hue, Hookers Green Hue, Alizarin crimson Hue, Cobalt Blue Hue and all the other Heavy body paints. I have ALOT of different tubes of paint.
And LOVE Painting with them all!!

Yellow Ogre
09-18-2011, 07:02 PM
I will 2nd Timeladies remark about hues. Go to artiscreation.com to get more pigment info.

Re Ivory Black vs Mars Black. Ivory black (PBk9 bone black) is warmer, more transparent and weaker than Mars Black (PBk11, synthetic iron oxide). My preference is to use Ivory for darkening where necessary.

To my eye, ivory black is more blue black and Mars is more red black. If you pull the two out with titanium white, you will get to different end results. Ivory white goes to a bluish tint. To get a "darker" black, i sometimes add alizarin crimson plus ultramarine blue. Payne grey can be darker than either straight out of the tube.

Cheers

Stacey3352
09-19-2011, 03:36 AM
I personally don't use the cadmiums because of their toxicity. The hue gives me the colour without being toxic. Several pigments are no longer available so producing them as a hue gives us the colour instead of not having it at all. There are pigments such as the alizarin crimson that could be produced synthetically and were more light fast that the natural pigment.
Some companies produce hues because the natural pigment is expensive and they want to keep the costs down. Unfortunately this has been related to hues more than the other reasons.

http://www.paintmaking.com/black.htm

chammi kaiser
09-19-2011, 04:29 AM
I also use Liquitex Heavy Bodied Acrylics and absolutely love them. Have no trouble at all with hues. All their colours are fantastic.

timelady
09-19-2011, 06:17 AM
I'll second the paynes grey recommendation. :) I have Mars Black (redder) but use Paynes Grey almost all the time as a darkener now, even as black in underpainting.

As for cadmium toxicity, really unless you're eating your paint ;) you're not going to have a problem. The pigment is bound in acrylic polymer so temporary skin contact doesn't mean the pigment is in contact with skin, and there's no loose pigment to breathe in (in pastel, this would be an issue).

Tina.

Einion
09-19-2011, 09:08 AM
My question is I was wondering because Liquitex heavy body acrylics are professional grade, will those hue colors above do the job, or is there certain aspects that I need to be aware of regarding those particular paint colors?
There are a lot of prior threads that mention the issue of hues, as well as specifically going into detail about cadmium hues, but they're hard to search for because the internal search won't let you look for three-letter words.

So to touch on the main points about cadmiums and their hue substitutes, there are two main issues. The first is that replacements or substitutes don't match the way cads mix (with white as well as with other colours). This isn't to say they're inferior, actually far from it in many cases, but they're not the same; usually you'll actually get higher chroma, which can be desirable or not depending on your taste and/or on the mix you're doing at the time.

Since higher chroma is easily adjusted for the main practical issue when painting is with the lower opacity of cadmium hues, which for some tasks would be a real obstacle - as far as covering power goes, with the cads your really do pay for what you're getting.

Oh, and why we're talking about colors, I was wondering what the difference is between Ivory Black and Mars Black. I have learned that Ivory Black does take awhile to dry, but not so sure about Mars black and what the pros and cons of each are?
There's no difference to speak of in drying time from one acrylic colour to another as there can be in oil paint. So with acrylics the choice between one pigment and another that's the same colour or very similar comes down to their relative opacity and how they mix.

BTW, with real Ivory Black actually being made from charred ivory scraps it's just a marketing name these days, they're actually all made from Bone Black, so technically this too is a hue :)

Prior threads on the different black pigments:
Blacks - Is There A Difference? (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511573)
Mars Black vs. Ivory Black (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591544)

Ivory white goes to a bluish tint.
As a general rule, all blacks produce blueish tints with white.

It's mainly a difference in value and how blue they are that distinguishes one black from another when comparing their tints, plus also the opacity of the mixture in certain cases.

Einion

americreations
09-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Thank you everyone for such great information. Very helpful and I appreciate it!

OkeeKat
09-19-2011, 06:51 PM
I find that mars black when mixed with titanium white is more brownish gray, Paynes gray is more of a blueish gray when mixed with Titanium white, where as my all time favorite Ivory Black when mixed with Titanium white is more of a true gray.

Einion
09-20-2011, 09:13 AM
Payne's Grey is usually a mixture of French Ultramarine and black, so it should give decidedly blueish greys :)

One of the interesting things about comparing similar pigments is that the generic nature of them is one thing but individual versions of them can and do vary, and the blacks are no exception.

Yellow Ogre mentions above about Mars Black looking red-black, and it can definitely have this appearance (although at the same time not giving reddish-grey mixtures unfortunately, this is a shame as it could be very useful!) While Bone Black is the black pigment that's most commonly said to give brownish-grey tints, I've never found it myself and I think it's actually in relation to watercolour, where a tint is using the paint thinly not mixing it with white.

Einion