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View Full Version : Sept/Oct. Portrait Challenge: Russian Artists!


NancyMP
09-01-2011, 09:23 AM
These three Russian artists were outstanding for almost a century from the 1860s to the 1950s. First let's present

Il'ya Repin, 1844-1930 "A Gallen-Kallelan Muotokova"

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-a._gallen-kallelan_muotokuva-large.jpg

"Study of an Old Man"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-study_of_an_old_man-large.jpg

"Ivan the Terrible and his son Ivan on November 16, 1581"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-ivan_the_terrible_and_his_son_ivan_on_november_16,_1581_detail-large.jpg

and "Natalia Nordmannin Muotokova"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-natalia_nordmannin_muotokuva-large.jpg

He had a wide variety of style and subject matter, and used it in brilliant fashion!

The next one, many of you know. He was a student of Repin's and he emigrated to America and painted Hispanics, Native American Indians, Caucasians and a variety of expressively swift, energetic portraits.

He is one of my favorites, and is honored at the Western Heritage Museum in Oklahoma City with a special alcove of his works. There is a padded bench in the exhibit to sit on while studying his work at leisure.

Repin's student was the famous
Nicolai Fechin, 1881-1955 "Indian girl"

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-fechin1.jpg

"The Baby Doll"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-the_baby_doll-large.jpg

"Virgina Caldwell"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-nicolai-fechin-virginia-caldwell-1952-.jpg

Another great Russian artist of the nineteenth century was
Valentin Serov, 1865-1911 "Self Portrait"

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-Serov_Self.jpg

"Portrait of Maria Lvova"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-Portrait_of_Maria_Lvova.jpg

"Isabella"
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/31-Aug-2011/203830-Drawing_1.jpg

This challenge will be hosted by more than one of us...

I can see right now that you're really going to enjoy this one! And I'm eager to see your work!

Lauren F-M
09-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Great! Something challenging and educational -- some passionate Russians! :clap:

Looking forward to this challenge! :thumbsup:

doppler
09-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Looks a great challenge. :clap: :clap: Count me in!

bjornjo
09-01-2011, 07:03 PM
great paintings. ok i imagine some of these are bigger. Guess i need to go color then will be great fun(/disaster ) and test my mixing skills (i have a full spectrum palette so got plenty of choises). but maybe easier with oils altough i only used it for doing block studys with painting knife. so maybe time to try brushes and i guess use some medium ok this will be a great challenge on every plane but i will try. time to sleep just hope ivan the terrible wont show up.
ok now im commited todo something atleast will be a pleassure to see everyones paintings

nancy where are these photos from?

NancyMP
09-01-2011, 08:11 PM
Bjornjo, most of the ones by Fechin and all of the Repins are from ARC, and here is the link (http://www.artrenewal.org/) to that. The Serov ones I couldn't find there and found some copies by searching Google.

I was considering searching by the names of the paintings in a museum site, but unfortunately, not all art museums are listed in my resources. I invite anyone who has access to better refs to post them, but one does need to consider two things. There was a period of time in the 20th century in which Russian paintings were not very accessible, and the more impressionistic style of some of these would not be more easily read even if a larger copy were available.

lovin art
09-02-2011, 12:48 AM
Nance, Beautiful .:clap: .. Ill watch from the side lines I wont have time at school I guess ...:( :o :cat:

dominika
09-02-2011, 02:53 AM
Oh dear it will be bit difficult challenge for me. But I think i will join and I hope it won't be disaster! I'm sure your works will be great.:)
Nancy, are beginners invited too?

roy-p
09-02-2011, 05:37 AM
Nancy, this is wonderful! I don't know if I'll be joining in (hopefully I will) but to just read through your thread is such an awe-inspiring experience. Thank you so much!

NancyMP
09-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Oh dear it will be bit difficult challenge for me. But I think i will join and I hope it won't be disaster! I'm sure your works will be great.:)
Nancy, are beginners invited too?

Dominika, Everyone is invited! I'm tempted to start out with a Fechin; he's one of my favorites. I like the Indian girl very much.

I think the trick to Fechin especially, is to load your brush and make one stroke where you would make many, otherwise. That retains the freshness.

NancyMP
09-02-2011, 12:36 PM
Thank you, Prosenjit! They're awe-inspiring, and will take some valiant effort to approach their mastery!

Sandra, you can do the last one, surely, with your love of drawing? Her eyes are to die for!

GaryNorthants
09-02-2011, 02:38 PM
A fine challenge :) Count me in too
Best wishes
Gary

Dana Design
09-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Here is my study of "Portrait of Olga Serova" with the original beneath it. O/C 14x11 in. Original by Valentin Serov.

I would have loved to watch him work!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Sep-2011/29065-Serov-study-799.jpg

The original:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Sep-2011/29065-New_pic.jpg

NancyMP
09-02-2011, 04:51 PM
:clap:That is so beautiful, Dana!

LGHumphrey
09-02-2011, 04:55 PM
There are 540 Repins and 219 Serovs at wikipaintings.

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/alphabet

Click on the name of the artist, then click on "All Works Chronologically," to see how the artist progressed.

Edit: When searching Google Images for Fechin, remember that in Russia he was known as Feshin, so try both of them.

bjornjo
09-02-2011, 05:59 PM
Dana wow that was quick and nice looking. i saw you had done fisher girl by repin on your site you should show that one aswell that is a very good portrait and nice expression

bettythecat
09-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Great subject this month Nancy , I'm gonna join in looks like fun

Dana Design
09-02-2011, 06:29 PM
bjornjo, will do!

Nancy, thanks!

lovin art
09-02-2011, 07:51 PM
Wow Dana , where did you wip that up from , girl !!:D I thought you said you were slow chica ... beautiful !!!!:clap: :heart:



Sandra, you can do the last one, surely, with your love of drawing? Her eyes are to die for!

you know how to get to me dont you:o , and I think you threw it in knowing , clever Lovely lady you are ...I will try just for you Nance :heart: :D

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 01:16 AM
There are 540 Repins and 219 Serovs at wikipaintings.

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/alphabet

Click on the name of the artist, then click on "All Works Chronologically," to see how the artist progressed.

Edit: When searching Google Images for Fechin, remember that in Russia he was known as Feshin, so try both of them.

Thank you, Lawrence,:) I'll keep this link bookmarked! I would love to see more, and I'll bet some others here would like to, as well!

dominika
09-03-2011, 01:44 AM
Beautiful study, Dana! And so quickly!
But there is something I don't understand - is that mean we are copying any painting by these Russian artists or we are copying the paintings from 1st page? From 1st page I like "indian girl" the most but I saw also many beautiful ones in Wiki.

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 01:55 AM
Sandra,:heart: come on in, the water's fine, and you could do this in your sleep, chica!:D

lovin art
09-03-2011, 05:15 AM
Sandra,:heart: come on in, the water's fine, and you could do this in your sleep, chica!:D

You know Im a Mermaid~ from the Ocean deep :D ~ Cheers Nance:heart: !! looking forward to whats to come ....from all you fine Humans...Mostly Graphite 4b , Wolffs for the darks 2b


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/186639-wc.JPG

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 09:45 AM
Beautiful study, Dana! And so quickly!
But there is something I don't understand - is that mean we are copying any painting by these Russian artists or we are copying the paintings from 1st page? From 1st page I like "indian girl" the most but I saw also many beautiful ones in Wiki.

Dominika, I don't see any reason why you can't use any painting by these three artists as long as it's a portrait. Just be sure to post your reference as well along with your study.:)

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 09:47 AM
Sandra,:heart: you have such a grand style in this study - I love it!:thumbsup::D

dominika
09-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Thank you Nancy, I have one from Wiki on my eye. But now first one in charcoal.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/974143-100_8453.jpg

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Dominika, you have the gesture perfectly - her gracefulness and mystery are echoed in this piece!:thumbsup:

Dana Design
09-03-2011, 01:48 PM
Agree with Nancy. Use any portrait of the Russians.

And....I did that portrait a year or two ago! Honey babes...I don't paint that fast! To me, it's brain surgery, and I go s l o w l y.

!becca
09-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Sandra, she is beautiful!:heart:

!becca
09-03-2011, 06:38 PM
Here is a small 10"x8" Repin study I painted a few years ago.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/100116-my_portfolio_212copy4.jpg

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 07:34 PM
That's so lovely, Becca! Do you happen to have the reference somewhere? I looked but couldn't find it on that site Lawrence gave us..:o

lovin art
09-03-2011, 07:42 PM
Laughin @Dana's brain surgery !! good stuff !


Thankyou , my oilys dolls:heart: , I rushed it but thats me all over :o but I loved her haunting eyes if nothing else ...:D

As I said Becc:heart: , a wonderful copy ,glad you posted it , full of beauty !!!:clap:

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 07:43 PM
Nevah mind! I just found it on Google:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/203830-repin25.JPG

!becca
09-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Nancy, while you were uploading I was too.:D so you get a double dose.:lol:

Here is mine...it looks like I may have uploaded the wrong image above.:confused:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/100116-my_portfolio_212copy4.jpg

Here it is, Nancy, it was a portrait he did of his daughter.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2011/100116-repin25-Nadta_Repina,_daughter.jpg

NancyMP
09-03-2011, 09:52 PM
I love that golden-pink color of the dress! It reminds me of suns setting! Let's add this one to the challenge definitely!

!becca
09-04-2011, 02:39 AM
Nancy, what strikes me about Russian art is the hauntingness of the portraits..that look in many of despair and some emptiness. It is very moving.

lovin art
09-04-2011, 03:53 AM
well girls , I got agree there , Becc as we spoke you know what I thought but , truly they could paint with such expression in their work ... I look at some of it and really Its easy for me to get lose in it all ... so easy to daydream with such beauty to behold really !

bjornjo
09-04-2011, 04:33 AM
Sandra lovley one stroke and then leave it even if it was the broadside great capture of the mouth and eyes especially.
good skill and luck comes in for school

dominika good flow looks good

becca ahh well now it is same picture at both places a very fine painting nice variety of brush strokees and i like the abit more saturated colors

it seems to be a diffrence on the photo of this paintings you find on internet some looks very desaturated and pale on places while other looks much more saturated in places while still holding their desaturatin elsewhere

tomasis
09-04-2011, 07:10 AM
great theme! I love russians artists. I think I will do some pieces :)

nice, becca! very close already :eek:

lovin art
09-04-2011, 08:53 AM
Bjorn , -Thankyou for more then Lovely words to me and good wishes for School !! I look forward to seeing your work on here.:D ..

LGHumphrey
09-04-2011, 01:36 PM
This is a detail from Serov's portrait of Yevdokia S. Morózova, 1908, a quickstudy painted this morning.

I saw the original a couple of weeks ago--it's here in Barcelona on loan from the Tretiakov Gallery as part of the fabulous "Portraits of the Belle Epoque" exhibit at CaixaForum. I'll be going back one of these days....entrance is free.....:smug: and I'll see if my colours have anything whatsoever to do with the colours Serov used.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Sep-2011/60616-DSC_000521.JPG

Here's a link to the full painting in all its glory.

http://www.abcgallery.com/S/serov/serov89.html

Dana Design
09-04-2011, 01:47 PM
VERY nice! Mr. Humphrey!

LGHumphrey
09-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Hi Dana, thanks very much.

Nancy, when you click on "Repin" in Wikipaintings you'll see, about halfway down the page, "Artworks by genre." Click on "Portraits." It's number 105 of the 334 portraits. (!)

I mention this because you'll see that the colours of her dress are quite different from the one that you posted, but who knows which is correct. (Maybe neither of them.)

bjornjo
09-04-2011, 06:10 PM
Lawrence how fortunate you are to be able to see them in person are you going to work on this more or are you done? very good for being a quickstudy

sandra im tempted to try fisher girl but never done a portrait in watercolor/oil and not that size 74x54 cm but maybe now is the time to dare but proably good todo some smaller studies first in color. so we will see will have to start with a good drawing. i have actually done one in watercolor forum but it came out so formless

how he treated her dress and fur around her neck, it´s just lovley
but the ligthning at museums are sometimes so strong they wipe out the fine toneality they used

NancyMP
09-04-2011, 07:59 PM
Hi, Lawrence, and all of you who post paintings that weren't in the first group, please don't make it my responsibility to post your references. It would be appreciated, even if you need to post your study again with the reference painting.

I won't be here to do this for you on a regular basis; I have other duties, and yet another trip this month. So thank you all for being responsible in advance!

She is lovely,:D Lawrence, and now I'll go see the reference!

NancyMP
09-04-2011, 08:12 PM
Even when the original is in the original batch, it's helpful as the challenge gets lengthier during the two months, to post it again.

It was beautiful to see Dana's work along with her reference, and it shows how marvelous she is at portraiture. It also helps anyone to grow as they can see discrepancies they might want to alter.

Here is my study of "Portrait of Olga Serova" with the original beneath it. O/C 14x11 in. Original by Valentin Serov.

I would have loved to watch him work!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Sep-2011/29065-Serov-study-799.jpg

The original:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Sep-2011/29065-New_pic.jpg

lovin art
09-04-2011, 09:08 PM
sandra im tempted to try fisher girl but never done a portrait in watercolor/oil and not that size 74x54 cm but maybe now is the time to dare but proably good todo some smaller studies first in color. so we will see will have to start with a good drawing. i have actually done one in watercolor forum but it came out so formless

how he treated her dress and fur around her neck, it´s just lovley
but the ligthning at museums are sometimes so strong they wipe out the fine toneality they used


I agree Bjorn, she would be grand indeed , but yes study her in some drawing first , then your medium , you seem to know whats the right path , I say jump in and go for it:D , we are all learning here , what better way then like this , your right , REALLY theres nothing like observing them in museums for sure , I think seeing the real thing up close and personal like, is what strikes me as an artist , I mean it just takes ones breath away! .....


lovely brush work Mr LG....:)

NancyMP
09-05-2011, 12:41 AM
Nancy, what strikes me about Russian art is the hauntingness of the portraits..that look in many of despair and some emptiness. It is very moving.

It first struck me how emotional Russians are in their art (and living, I suspect!), after I read some Dostoyevsky. Then Anna Karenina. And th eGulag Archipelago. They're incredible!:D

This is actually, except for Fechin, my first expedition into Russian art! :o
Do you think, Becca, that their histrionic, dramatic qualities make them have far more drama in art than most nationalities? If it is a sort of national trait, that is?

!becca
09-05-2011, 03:18 AM
Nancy, I do think that. I think the social atmosphere is reflected in the art, giving it a quality that is unique.

LGHumphrey
09-05-2011, 06:41 AM
Nancy, you mean it isn't enough just to put a link to the original like I did at the bottom?

123harry
09-05-2011, 06:42 PM
A Small Mystery

I made this copy in watercolour a long time ago from a book of Russian art I found in a second hand bookshop. The problem is that the book is in Russian, a language I'm afraid I know nothing of.

The painter of this is called СЕРЕБРЯНЬІЙ. Looking at information from the web on the cyrillic alphabet it looks like this name should be rendered as Serebriakov or something similar. The only artist I can find with a name like this is Zinaida Serebriakova. I've never heard of her but she is superb and I can recommend a google image search to anyone.

This picture, however, is not among her works as far as I can see and is not really her style. Her subjects tend to be much more domestic. Perhaps some of our Russian speaking colleagues can clear this up…?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Sep-2011/186003-Russian_Painting_corrected_small.jpg

Original

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Sep-2011/186003-Original.jpg

NancyMP
09-05-2011, 07:31 PM
Nancy, you mean it isn't enough just to put a link to the original like I did at the bottom?

Lawrence, It is helpful to all who are viewing it, and to the artist who posts it, to see the original image and the study together. It helps all of us become better at what we do. We don't need to worry about using too much space here; that is what WC generously provides for our use!:)

NancyMP
09-05-2011, 07:41 PM
Wow, Harry! You've done some nice work here! I just went exploring and found a YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hZ9fn8xON8) of her work, and she really did beautiful work. I'm surprised she's not more famous. It may have been the long hiatus in the last century between Russia's political system and the rest of the world. We have missed out on a lot of fine work!:eek:

Sandra, you would love this; she has done some wonderful nudes!:)

123harry
09-06-2011, 05:14 AM
That is an excellent vid you've found, Nancy. I see from it that Serebriakova was also a student of Repin.

bjornjo
09-06-2011, 05:29 AM
harry a very nice painting your rendering of face is very nice was it done alla prima and then just minor refinements with glazeing? how big is it?.
Nancy wonderful video and in the text of the youtube video it says she studied with repin 1901 among many others. but hers work it is more joy but maybe therefor she made the iris abit bigger aswell

harry we x-posted

LGHumphrey
09-06-2011, 06:48 AM
123harry, in our alphabet that's Serebriany. There have been a couple of Russian artists with that name but I don't think any of them are famous. Definitely not Serebriakova. (Wasn't she a tremendous painter! And what a sad story about her husband and how she was separated from her family.)

LGHumphrey
09-06-2011, 06:51 AM
Nancy, I don't like to be bashful but......seeing my painting right next to the original, on the net, would probably persuade me that it's time to give up painting. That's why I prefer a link.

lovin art
09-06-2011, 07:02 AM
Wow,
[B]Sandra, you would love this; she has done some wonderful nudes!:)


Oh WOW Nance :heart::thumbsup: , you were right I do love it , she was quite diverse wasnt she ...who knows , I mite just get to go down in history yet , as the OZ girl who painted a shed load of Nudes !!!!:wink2: :D

vERY nICE WORK hARRY !!!

LG , never need be Bashful , if you are then , Im dopey~ Seven dwarfs I think :D

dominika
09-06-2011, 07:38 AM
Lawrence, I fully understand what you mean and it can be very discouraging. I think this is very difficult to paint a good copy - but what a good copy means? Is this copying every line and every brushstroke? I think it's not the point. What is the most interesting for me is that we can add our approach, some part of us and definitely learn something new.
As to what Nancy said - we all would like to see how original painting looks - it is very interesting to compare both works (but not every detail!).
Well, because of my english I'm not able to express everything what I think but I'm sure you know what I mean. Every copy I saw here is special :)
Nancy, if I'm wrong please correct me...

PS - Lawrence. Uff... this was my longest post here. Should I stop using english because it's not perfect enuogh? :)

123harry
09-06-2011, 08:24 AM
Lawrence: Thanks for that. I think our man is Iosef Serebriany. I haven't been able to trace the above image on the web but two others 'Leningrad Concert' and 'Dmitri Shostakovich' by him are very much in that style.

Lauren F-M
09-06-2011, 10:39 AM
Great work on here! :clap:
Dana, Becca, Lawrence and Harry -- thanks for starting this challenge off with such great studies!:thumbsup:
Also, I'm enjoying the discussion and exploration of Russian artists that is happening. I know I'm going to learn a lot with this challenge. :D

I thought I'd share this portrait of Tolstoy, done by Ilya Repin in 1901. I scanned it from the catalogue of a show, "Master Paintings of the Hermitage and The State Russian Museum" that I saw in Montreal back in 1971. This painting really wowed me and has stayed with me for 40 years. It's huge (80-3/4" x 28-1/2"), but shows the writer in peasant garb, bare-foot, in the forest. It's wonderful! I just scanned it from the catalogue; perhaps we can find a better version of it online. :confused:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2011/20772-Repin_Tolstoy.jpg

dominika
09-06-2011, 02:25 PM
I thought I'll show you what I found at the link that Laurence posted. It's Serov "Portrait of Sophia Dragomirova-Lukomskaya". It's original in watercolour but I hope I can make it in oils. At the moment I have only this quick sketch in pastel pencils (about an hour). I know proportions aren't well. I'll use a grid when I will paint it to keep proportions well.

Lauren F-M
09-06-2011, 02:28 PM
Dominika -- I think you've done a good job here! :thumbsup: Lovely pastel sketch. :D
If you do this in oils, you could keep it loose and 'thin', somewhat like watercolours; add more paint only if you think you need it. I'm sure other oil painters on here can advise. It's a lovely portrait reference and thanks for adding it. :clap:

LGHumphrey
09-06-2011, 02:53 PM
Dominica, don't worry about your English, it's perfectly comprehensible.

LGHumphrey
09-06-2011, 03:01 PM
For those who liked Zinaida Serebriakova's paintings, don't forget Wikipaintings.org, they have 411 of her works including 179 portraits.

LGHumphrey
09-06-2011, 04:38 PM
This is after the other painting by Valentin Serov that is on loan to the "Portraits of the Belle Epoque" exhibit here in Barcelona, his portrait of Vladimir Girshman, 1911.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2011/60616-DSC_0002170.JPG

And here's the link:

http://thecabinet.tumblr.com/post/8968845603/valentin-aleksandrovich-serov-1865-1911

NancyMP
09-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Lawrence, you're Bashful, Sandra's Dopey, and I'm Sneezy! :lol: So you can go ahead and post a link instead of putting your work next to the masterpieces.

Now that I say that, I may be getting too bashful, too. The lese majeste of showing our paintings next to the master! :eek: But I'll continue doing it anyway, because I always seek C&C for my work, as it helps me to grow.

Dominika, that is a lovely painting you've selected. Your sketch gives you a good start for your watercolor, too!:thumbsup:

NancyMP
09-06-2011, 06:37 PM
Lauren, I was so taken with it that I just had to go find that Leo Tolstoy portrait larger, so here it is. This is as large as WC will load it, so if anyone would like a larger copy, PM me; I have it downloaded in my files. I love :heart: those feet!

"Leo Tolstoy Barefoot," by Il'ya Repin, 1901.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2011/203830-Leo_Tolstoi_Barefoot.jpg

bjornjo
09-06-2011, 08:00 PM
lawrence well done who dosent feel humble to their effort when you compare to the masters a very difficult portrait you have choosen where you can hardly make up where mouth ends and where mustach merges and quite loose aswell which makes it even harder. and dont you dare stop painting you make very good
dominika good pastel but as i just read from andrew loomis book on facial expression make those "smile bumps" nasial labial folds abit ligther but you got the turn on the mouth very well so it still reads very well. i have no advice regarding oils since i have very little experience.
wow those small chromatic shifts in the forhead especially from the left side to the middle and then the abit bigger to right of her you did that very well too dominika

nancy a lovley one i guess they really wanted to "show" the book in the pocket notice how it is not forming a square but rather an arrow ...., another travel how nice

will see if i might post my wc head study of fisher girl tomorrow when it not so dark so i can get a photo but i should had used some masking and totally misjudged her nose should not have seen so much of her nostril and underside..oh well better try on next one. you will see :)

Lauren F-M
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Thanks, Nancy! :D
That one is fabulous. Can you let me know where the larger version is? :confused:

NancyMP
09-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Here's the link (http://0.tqn.com/d/arthistory/1/0/6/f/fr07_repin_01.jpg), Lauren, and others who may want to try it!

lovin art
09-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Nance:D , - you are sneezy !!! ~ I just watched the movie based on him (Tolstoy) hes one of my favs to read , I loved him and Hemingway , would love to do Hemingway's face one day Gosh he was handsome that man! , I cant wait to see what you do Lauren !!:thumbsup:

Dominika, Nice looking pastel ~well done!,:thumbsup: maybe you could soften those eyebrows down a tad ... they look abit sketchy to me ...just a suggestion !

dominika
09-07-2011, 01:21 AM
I see a lot was happening here since yesterday...:)
Everybody thanks for your kind words and advices - I'll use them.
Lawrence I think you've captured the mood and his pose very well, this guy looks a bit conceited.
Laurie and Harry - I always admire watercolor works (Harry I think your work is very good - I like the loose style). I decided to paint that portrait on oils because I find watercolors too difficult in use. I have a set of watercolors (russian St.Petersburg's also called "White Nights") and I heard they're very fine quality but I have no idea how to use them (they are not in tubes). :confused: Maybe some day...

dominika
09-07-2011, 02:35 AM
Bjorn, please show us your work :)

bjornjo
09-07-2011, 05:15 AM
dominika i would if only the camera would work with me but no he should mess up the colors. i can send it in a ordinary mail damn cameras and "levels" in gimp GRRRR. i also have a set of white knights but reds are not so reliable except the cadmium and not the yellow green from what i have heard but never done any lightfastness test myself.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/186410-fisher_girl_first_take_on_face.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/186410-fishergirl.jpg
decent colors but drawing yuck! and to get eyelid back i had to take some watercolor titan white and mix some opague yellow in but next time i will save them with masking or be more carefull. if the perspective would had been better the size of "underside of nose" nostril would been better and would get the sense of a slight tilt of the head and not like now your are looking up on her.... c&c
/Björn

LGHumphrey
09-07-2011, 07:02 AM
Björn, you were asking if I take these quickstudies any further. I don't, though if I were a consumate artist like Mary Segev or Leigh Bettythecat this would just be the start.

This is after Repin's portrait of the writer Leonid Andreev, 1904. It's the third and last of the paintings that are here in Bcn. on loan from the Tretyakov Gallery.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/60616-DSC_000811.JPG


Here's the link, it's down at the bottom of the page:

http://www.tanais.info/art/en/repin2.html

lovin art
09-07-2011, 07:22 AM
Bjorn,:D I think your watercolor has a wonderful soft feel to her the drawing /likeness like you say is not 100% but really its your interpretation of this masters work ...and So a learning takes place on lots of levels ...Love the mouth and the colors are nicely blended :thumbsup:

there are slight things I see here that will lend to more likeness , like the curve of the chin towards our left side of the face , the top of the cheek is to wide and could come in more towards the viewers left eye , the nose is more rounded towards the base/tip etc, adjustments that this person sees ..., Thankyou for sharing Bjorn...




dominika i would if only the camera would work with me but no he should mess up the colors. i can send it in a ordinary mail damn cameras and "levels" in gimp GRRRR. i also have a set of white knights but reds are not so reliable except the cadmium and not the yellow green from what i have heard but never done any lightfastness test myself.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/186410-fisher_girl_first_take_on_face.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/186410-fishergirl.jpg
decent colors but drawing yuck! and to get eyelid back i had to take some watercolor titan white and mix some opague yellow in but next time i will save them with masking or be more carefull. if the perspective would had been better the size of "underside of nose" nostril would been better and would get the sense of a slight tilt of the head and not like now your are looking up on her.... c&c
/Björn

dominika
09-07-2011, 08:36 AM
Lawrence, nice work, you have captured his likeness very well! My only suggestion: in original the values on his face are more varied from light to dark.
Bjorn, thanks for sharing your work, I love the colours you used! I confirm what Sandra says about likeness. :)

LGHumphrey
09-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Hi Dominika, yes, you're right about those values.

In case any of the people following this thread are not native English speakers and don't understand the references to Bashful, Sneezy, and Dopey, those are 3 of the 7 dwarves in Walt Disney's production of "Snow White," based on the Grimm brothers' fairytale. The other 4 are Doc, Grumpy, Happy, and Sleepy. Any takers? :)

Nancy, what a magnificent version of Repin's Tolstoy, much better than the other ones available on the net.

So this morning decided to have a go at it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/60616-DSC_000462.JPG

bjornjo
09-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Humphrey leonid andrew is nice epsecially the eyes but the best one so far must be your tolstoy and that servov can be grumpy of the seven dwarfs dont you think? you are very productive i think i will be Happy then

thanks for your comments sandra and dominika
here comes the rant :)
yeah i totally agree with your observation clearly a structural problem. chin mouth nose eye brows are on the same plane and cheek are to big on both sides, on our right side i need a hue change as it becomes "neck/throat". and so the chin tip also seem to be push pushed forward. proably would have been solved i had done a better cross which was more true to the tilt altough i also like the mouth seems a tad to big and need some changes in values to turn more and slant for perspective
it is so hard to fit in the mouth..

Björn

LGHumphrey
09-07-2011, 02:17 PM
Björn, very pleased that you're Happy. :)

lovin art
09-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Bjorn , your right the tilt is a hard thing to comprehend when starting out , you will get there ... great learning comes from heaps of practice eh!!!:)



Sorry to have thrown a spanner in your works with my talk of the dwarfs in general --Lg

Dana Design
09-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Here's my rendition of The Fisher Girl after Repin. Loved painting this! As with all of my Masters copies, I'm still not finished with this.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/29065-The_Fisher_GirlP1010017-800-dark.jpg

And here is the original (wish I could paint like that!)...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/29065-ilya-repin-a-fisher-girl-1874.jpg

Dana Design
09-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Lauren, I was so taken with it that I just had to go find that Leo Tolstoy portrait larger, so here it is. This is as large as WC will load it, so if anyone would like a larger copy, PM me; I have it downloaded in my files. I love :heart: those feet!

"Leo Tolstoy Barefoot," by Il'ya Repin, 1901.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Sep-2011/203830-Leo_Tolstoi_Barefoot.jpg

Nancy, I just love this portrait. The first time I saw it, it took me a while to figure out the hands tucked into the belt. I may have a go at this sometime in the future.

lovin art
09-07-2011, 03:45 PM
And here is the original (wish I could paint like that!)...

I think Dana , you came quite close my girl!! the viewers left eye looks alittle big , thats all I see here ...great feeling to the original I think ...

Dana Design
09-07-2011, 03:50 PM
I think Dana , you came quite close my girl!! the viewers left eye looks alittle big , thats all I see here ...great feeling to the original I think ...

Yes, I see that and she does look a bit older than the original. THAT'S why I wish I could paint like that! LOL!

bjornjo
09-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Dana wow that photo of the painting looks quite diffrent from the one i worked from that looks quite "cool" and the jeans have the feeling of being repaired with sackcloth http://uploads1.wikipaintings.org/images/ilya-repin/a-fisher-girl-1874.jpg!HalfHD.jpg and when was that master class in the oil forum? at the painting she have most proportions of being grown up but still have that feeling of being younger im puzzled but you also got that well and especially the expression

lovin art
09-07-2011, 04:03 PM
Tsk , tsk , Dana I think you can be proud of your efforts in all ...you have a great likeness ...:thumbsup:

Dana Design
09-07-2011, 07:30 PM
jbornojo, Yes, I saw that light version but preferred to paint from the darker version. I think the jeans you referred to is actually a skirt. No jeans at that point in time, I'm sure. Still working on it from time to time.

Thanks, Sandra! It's never the best but it's the best I can do.

NancyMP
09-07-2011, 10:21 PM
Bjorn, I think you should switch mediums. I did when I retired, after a long art career doing watercolors. The problem with watercolor is that although it's easy to see what you should have done after painting it, it's not easy to fix. Other mediums are more flexible, and can be reworked more easily. I think your nose is nicely done, so don't get too hung up on Naso-Labial folds!

Lawrence, you could be a Mary Segev or a Leigh, also, if you were able to sacrifice speed for more in-depth observation. We all have it within us to become what we admire, even if we don't believe it at the moment.

Dana, the same message to you: If Repin had been able to see some of your brilliant portraiture work, he would have been saying, "Wow, I wish I could paint like that!"

NancyMP
09-07-2011, 10:21 PM
Isn't it funny how much the Russians love our blue jeans nowadays!!!

bjornjo
09-08-2011, 06:02 AM
dana yeah silly me they dident have jeans 1874 in russia .
nancy ahh thanks yeah maybe i should use my oils more. but then i need to stay away from medium since my bedroom is painting room. and if you drip some color you can spread it everywhere but zorn and other masters painted in suits so shouldent be that hard to stay clean should it? :)

lovin art
09-08-2011, 06:54 AM
but zorn and other masters painted in suits so shouldent be that hard to stay clean should it?:)

Bjorn , thats funny :D , get yourself a apron if your that messy;) ...but I dont blame you for not wanting to paint in your bedroom ,... break those oils out in another room !!!:thumbsup:

bjornjo
09-08-2011, 08:23 AM
dont have so much choise but bedroom, need more space well who dosent need more space??? and throw away more crap more organised. but the smell of gesso is actually worser especially when you put it on a 4' x4' panel it is most hands that get so messy

Dana Design
09-08-2011, 12:16 PM
Nancy! You are WAAAY to kind and you've made my ordinary day special! Thank you.

Must be my Russian genes (no pun intended)!

bjornjo
09-08-2011, 08:21 PM
a quicky like 25 min addiction before sleep will work abit more tomorrow maybe good nite about a4 in total a lovley fechin painting clearly this man had no problem to paint age old or young no problem this boy maybe about 10-12 big eyes and slightly upnose
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Sep-2011/186410-P4336.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Sep-2011/186410-fechin.jpg

Björn

lovin art
09-08-2011, 09:07 PM
Love it , kinda edgy a cool 25 min spent ~well done !

I wanted to do more drawing from these, but Im too committed to painting other things at the Mo ..maybe down the track ...:)

bjornjo
09-09-2011, 05:55 AM
Sandra thanks! you and nancy are to kind and helpfull with my struggle. well i hope you have a really good time at aterlier school and get some fun projects and nice kick in the butt a well choose path i think good to show on painting resume and it will show off in your work.

i wonder about these "air cleaners" you can buy do they only remove the smell or the hazardous "particles". unless the dangerous one are to small they should be caught in the coal filter

LGHumphrey
09-09-2011, 07:04 AM
björn, where did you find that Fechin? I did some copies after Fechin last Summer but I'm sure I never came across that one. Really lovely.

pagnes
09-09-2011, 02:20 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2011/17616-hunchback_finished.jpg

I do not like doing master copies (I feel always technically inadeguate and I miss the sense of having the originality of the work) but I wish to partecipate

Repin is one of favourites, he is a true master.
I have choosen the hunchback as I feel much empathy for him and I think Repin also did as he have painted this figure more times.

This painting is a real "alla prima", I have done it today in some hours. Actually the finished work looks a bit pale, the shirt too white, (my camera cheats a bit), anyway tomorrow add more color.

see the step by step on my blog (http://realpainter.blogspot.com/)

bjornjo
09-09-2011, 04:52 PM
and here is the orginal hope you dont mind.
looks good you got the features good http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2011/186410-Ilya_Repin_-_Hunchback.jpg

http://www.global-insiders.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/P4336.jpg here is a link to a really high resolution of the one i did drawing off

lawrence did all the copy last september and now we have russian this september.

lawrence what a tressaure to have that drawing your father did. i have not done any workshop so far. so much to learn but hopefully i will take one next year about how to catch the color of light in landscape and still life outdoors
/Björn

NancyMP
09-09-2011, 04:53 PM
Agnes, you may have taken the shot when it was still wet, which would account for the too white, and too pale, look of it here. It looks like very nice work! Why don't you post it again after it's dry?

LGHumphrey
09-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Repin and that lad were friends. Same as you, I feel a lot of empathy for him--I wonder what his life was like in Russia, how many years he lived, things like that. I presume Repin's sketches of him were all in preparation for the incredible "Easter Procession at Kursk."

This is coming along VERY well, pagnes.

sidbledsoe
09-10-2011, 10:44 AM
I did another tolstoy portrait by repin a few years ago, oil 12x14:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2011/112587-IMGP2694.JPG

it was mostly from this reference (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Ilya_Efimovich_Repin_(1844-1930)_-_Portrait_of_Leo_Tolstoy_(1887).jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ilya_Efimovich_Repin_(1844-1930)_-_Portrait_of_Leo_Tolstoy_(1887).jpg&h=1711&w=1200&sz=496&tbnid=f5StgCFqsCFCXM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=105&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drepin%2Btolstoy%2Bportrait%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=repin+tolstoy+portrait&hl=en&usg=__WMXqQzrtNKh0NemQI0WSOcXbExo=&sa=X&ei=TWtrTuuzC8TEgQeW4-3lBQ&ved=0CBMQ9QEwAQ), if you go to most other sources (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.oilpaintings-sales.com/images-small/il-ya-repin/il-ya-repin-portrait-of-leo-tolstoy-81740.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.oilpaintings-sales.com/oil-paintings/il-ya-repin-portrait-of-leo-tolstoy-81740.html&h=150&w=105&sz=4&tbnid=FAPH67sxpV3MhM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=67&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drepin%2Btolstoy%2Bportrait%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=repin+tolstoy+portrait&hl=en&usg=__xD6gHzpyhSOk3pMSKanTRhNQ0qA=&sa=X&ei=TWtrTuuzC8TEgQeW4-3lBQ&ved=0CBUQ9QEwAg)the colors are very different, pretty much just burnt umber, i liked this one. Something to keep in mind when you are copying from these reference pics.
anyway, repin could really swing a brush nicely!:D

Dana Design
09-10-2011, 12:42 PM
Oh, Sid! that's very good! The eyes are wonderful. And the beard? Well done!

LGHumphrey
09-10-2011, 04:37 PM
Well done Sid, sure looks like him.

This is after another painting that is here in Bcn. for the "Portraits of the Belle Epoque" show, the writer Anton Chekhov as painted by Osip (Joseph) Braz, a student of Repin.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2011/60616-DSC_000623.JPG

Here's a link to the original.

http://an.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imachen:Chekhov_1898_by_Osip_Braz.jpg

bettythecat
09-10-2011, 04:49 PM
I am liking that a lot lawrence :thumbsup:

lovin art
09-10-2011, 04:59 PM
me thinks you can swing a brush pretty darn good yourself there Sid, :clap: I remember that painting!!!!:D

Looking nice there LG:clap: , but I think you need to address the tip part of the nose that darker value doesnt read right ...

lovely Alla prima work there Pagnes:clap:




I did another tolstoy portrait by repin a few years ago, oil 12x14:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2011/112587-IMGP2694.JPG

it was mostly from this reference (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Ilya_Efimovich_Repin_(1844-1930)_-_Portrait_of_Leo_Tolstoy_(1887).jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ilya_Efimovich_Repin_(1844-1930)_-_Portrait_of_Leo_Tolstoy_(1887).jpg&h=1711&w=1200&sz=496&tbnid=f5StgCFqsCFCXM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=105&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drepin%2Btolstoy%2Bportrait%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=repin+tolstoy+portrait&hl=en&usg=__WMXqQzrtNKh0NemQI0WSOcXbExo=&sa=X&ei=TWtrTuuzC8TEgQeW4-3lBQ&ved=0CBMQ9QEwAQ), if you go to most other sources (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.oilpaintings-sales.com/images-small/il-ya-repin/il-ya-repin-portrait-of-leo-tolstoy-81740.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.oilpaintings-sales.com/oil-paintings/il-ya-repin-portrait-of-leo-tolstoy-81740.html&h=150&w=105&sz=4&tbnid=FAPH67sxpV3MhM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=67&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drepin%2Btolstoy%2Bportrait%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=repin+tolstoy+portrait&hl=en&usg=__xD6gHzpyhSOk3pMSKanTRhNQ0qA=&sa=X&ei=TWtrTuuzC8TEgQeW4-3lBQ&ved=0CBUQ9QEwAg)the colors are very different, pretty much just burnt umber, i liked this one. Something to keep in mind when you are copying from these reference pics.
anyway, repin could really swing a brush nicely!:D

NancyMP
09-10-2011, 05:41 PM
Sid, lovely work on Tolstoy!

Lawrence, you have certainly caught the studious look of this subject!

sidbledsoe
09-10-2011, 09:22 PM
well thanks all for comments, i would like to acknowledge the fine works all have posted by Dana, Sandra, Dominika, becca, LGH, harry, bjorn, and pagnes, keep it up 'cause the russians are coming and i'm likin em!:D

LGHumphrey
09-11-2011, 06:55 AM
Thanks Leigh.

Hi Sandra. After taking the photo I softened the edges of the shadow on his forehead but don't know what to do about the nose.

Cheers Nancy. Chekhov didn't like this portrait--said that Braz had made him look as if he'd just sniffed a horseradish. :lol:

Hi Sid, hope you do another one too.

bjornjo
09-11-2011, 09:12 AM
Lawrence i think you captured him nicley but maybe could made the brushstrokes to more form the nose tip yeah he seem frown. the portrait by servov is more pleasing and the one by his brother also

Sid yeah also good at swinging those brushes yeah that photo was alot better. but that beard you gave him looks better. and thanks for the compliment. but when one does good color it always gets more pleasing

gakinme
09-11-2011, 01:06 PM
Thank you, Nancy, for the photo references. I did a few for fun.



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_a.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_b.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_c.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_d.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_e.jpg


Walnut ink and the Higgins Ink that I don't like. Mix them together. Second one added the Golden Acrylic gray.

I did this with a thicker brush and quite happy with the thick strokes and simplicity of it.

Classic Cachet 5x7 inch beige 110 lb sketchbook

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011f.jpg


Raffine 100 lb 6x6 sketchbook

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011g.jpg

Lulu
09-11-2011, 05:00 PM
Hi everyone, great challenge pics!

Did this quickly last night, haven't done any straight sketching for ages so might come back and do some more.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Sep-2011/1118-Bwwetc.jpg

NancyMP
09-12-2011, 01:33 AM
Lovely drawing, Lulu!

dominika
09-12-2011, 09:02 AM
Hello again!
Lawrence, very nice works, especially Tolstoy! I guess you're using the same colours in most of your works?
Dana - I love your fisher girl, it's very moody!
Bjorn - I think it's your best sketch in this challenge, well done! Keep posting!
Pagnes - it's very well done!
Sid - beautiful work here!
Sandra - funny sketches! I like Ivan the most!
Lulu - your sketch is so subtle and nice! Do more!
I haven't had time to start my oil work yet so only Indian Girl sketch this time. Pencil, about 30-40 min.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Sep-2011/974143-rys_copy.jpg

Dana Design
09-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Thank you, dominika.

Here's another Master painter that I love...Alexei Harlamov, 1840-1925. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Harlamov

Did a copy of his "Portrait of a Peasant Girl" with a lot of artistic license or just plain ~oh, hell, go for it~. God knows, I try!!! :o

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Sep-2011/29065-Peasant-Girl-800.jpg

bjornjo
09-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Sandra/gakindme why do you do so small sketches the last one i think you got best but that of terrible ivan is nice(? the subject)
Dominika yeah but always get more life when you just not do the head, it really captures her keep working hard :) hope you start with the oil soon
Lulu it really nice like your play of changeing the hair
Dana this is really super those eyes are better than i see at the photo and lips as well :clap:

lovin art
09-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Sandra/ this Sandra Likes alot ..:D :clap: . cool sketchin..and wc also

LuLu , Shes fab.:clap: .. like Dana commented I like the use of negative space for the hair here ...

Dana , Really beautiful work on this one Miss!!:heart: :clap: ....the eyes are very gorgeous , is this oils Dana??

Dana Design
09-12-2011, 06:59 PM
Always oils! Thank you!

lovin art
09-12-2011, 08:11 PM
Groovy Dana ~ I missed yours too Dominika ~Sorry my apologies , my eyes are playing up on me ...

dominika
09-13-2011, 01:10 AM
Beautiful portrait Dana. But I can't see original at that link.
Another "Indian girl" in pastel.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Sep-2011/974143-100_8514.jpg.

gakinme
09-13-2011, 02:02 AM
Thank you, Dominika, Sandra and bjornjo, for your comments.

Hmm...I never asked why I draw so small. The sketchbooks I have are all 5x7 or so. I was thinking the bigger the piece of paper, the more you have to fill up the page anyway so it wouldn't make a difference. What is the normal minimum size for drawing such portraits ?

NancyMP
09-14-2011, 03:54 PM
Sandra, I like to do portraits at just about 3/4 or half size from life, and usually the same size as the original painting or drawing is from photos of masterworks. The reason for that is that you can see more, draw or paint more, and learn from it. Try moving up to a 9" x 12" to do sketches, and use faint construction lines to keep your hand in the right position for accuracy.

Great artists do this, too, and their pentimento -- extra lines, earlier mistakes -- make their work that much more fresh-looking and collectible.

After you get used to 9" x 12", you can move up to larger areas.

dominika
09-15-2011, 04:31 AM
Does this silence mean that my pastel "Indian girl" is so bad? :eek:

Lauren F-M
09-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Dominika -- sorry for the silence... :rolleyes:
She's very sweet. Nancy was wondering where the reference photo is for this one. If it hasn't been posted up on this thread, can you please provide a link to it? Thanks! :D

dominika
09-15-2011, 11:30 AM
Thanks, I haven't posted ref photo because it was posted by Nancy on the 1st page :).

123harry
09-15-2011, 12:18 PM
The original of Dana's copy can be seen at:

http://artmight.com/Artists/Alexei-alexeivich-Harlamoff-Russian-Academic-Painter-1842-1922/Harlamoff-Alexei-Alexeiewitsch-Portrait-Of-A-Peasant-Girl-187439p.html/(mode)/search/(keyword)/girl+portrait

bjornjo
09-15-2011, 12:37 PM
Dominika but side by side one see that you should be proud! very well done but a bit tweaking of the background would make youre figure and clothing warmer . left nose hole (side?) tilt it a little and it will be perfect!

LGHumphrey
09-15-2011, 12:44 PM
Good job dominica, I especially like the blending on the cheeks.

gakinme
09-18-2011, 06:58 PM
Nancy, thank you for your advice on the size to do these. Half the size of the human head? So that's around 4 inch x 3 inch minimum face size more or less. Ack, I still did these too small then.

I have this piece 9x12 inch gray paper and because I provisioned for the body, the head was still small. I used willow charcoal and by the time I finished sketching this, my middle finger was sore because the stick is so thin and small. I had to call it a night already last night. That's probably the last time I use charcoal willow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_h.jpg

This afternoon when my finger stopped hurting, I tried it with the following.

65 lbs black cardstock 8.5 x 11 inch with Colorfix black pastel ground
Faber Castell Polychromos hard pastel
Girault soft pastel
Terry Ludwig darks soft pastel
Faber Castell Pitt Pastel pencils for eyes

I shouldn't have smudged it. It has a pasty look now.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_i.jpg

One more try.

65 lbs tan cardstock with Colorfix clear pastel ground
Terry Ludwig soft pastel darks
Daler Rowney soft pastels for cape and purple
Caran D'Ache soft pastel for peacock green
Girault soft pastels for face
Faber Castell Pitt Pastel pencils for eyes

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2011/86669-portrait_challenge_sep_2011_j_orig.jpg


My question is, if this girl needs to be half the size of the human head, then I would need at least 11x14 inch paper? It's hard to find colored paper that size without spending a bundle for soft pastels. I suppose I should buy some 14x14 inch scrapbook cardstock and put pastel ground on them.

Dana Design
09-18-2011, 07:15 PM
[QUOTE=dominika]Beautiful portrait Dana. But I can't see original at that link.
Another "Indian girl" in pastel

Just google Harlamov, artist

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 01:01 AM
Dominika, so sorry! I was away for a bit getting ready for a show and painting, getting frames and things set up! I didn't mean to leave anyone hanging!:eek:

Maybe you could get more brilliance for your color by using white paper, or eggshell paper rather than gray. Gray is excellent for doing original portraits however, since a lot of the halftone work is just letting a bit of the gray show through.

Fechin used very thick oil paint. I've seen quite a few of his works in person, and either his canvas was rough, or he put the layers on so thick they became rough. There was a lot of zest and energy in his work.

This is a nicely done pastel, and I most likely would not post the original Fechin next to it, with all its contrast and brilliance. I think what I would do if I had a choice (and of course all of us do!) is to either do a copy of the original as a human face, or to copy his style to see if I could do it, and it felt natural to me. We are all here to learn, and when each of us thinks about whatever it is we want to learn as an individual, we can start building our own pathway.

Gakinme, I use my materials without thinking about the cost, because if I did, I would probably never touch an expensive canvas, use my expensive oils, have my work framed, or do any studies at all, just works I thought I could sell. But studies are important to me, in order to keep growing and learning. (It sure would be nice to be van Gogh, and have a brother ready to buy all my materials for me!):lol:

You will need to make your own decision here. There are all kinds of drawing material to work from for studies: #2 pencils and newsprint is what I started out with. Newsprint comes in big pads and is relatively cheap. I know one artist who likes to make small drawings all over her large newsprint pad when she comes to our life drawing sessions. She is well known for both her pastel and oil portraits, many life-sized, but she has won awards for these small newsprint drawings!:o

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 01:07 AM
Oh, Gakinme,:) I forgot to say, don't draw with your finger - just start thinking of your fingers as an extension of your arm, and stay about the length of your arm, away from your drawing. It will help you to see, and self-critique, the whole face, a lot better.

(And don't come back and say your shoulder hurts - that's Kevin W's line!):lol:

My whole back hurts!:wink2:

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 01:16 AM
Now I'm getting depressed:(...today I was shocked to read that the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum (aka Cowboy Hall of Fame to us locals) is auctioning off three paintings from its collection by Nicolai Fechin! They are all ones I've never seen, and I tried three things to try to see it. First I tried to access my online newspaper to at least download the two paintings shown with the article --- and was denied! I'll call them tomorrow and find out what's wrong with my password!

Then I noticed that the caption under the photos said PHOTO PROVIDED, which meant nobody has access to them! Lastly I looked at all my Fechin websites, and then tried the back way into the Cowboy Hall by asking to see each painting on their website.

No deal. I think they're keeping them under wraps until someone with a few million extra bucks asks to see them. And they don't care whether it's another museum or an individual! Ideally, they would like to see the Russians buy them, because they were painted while he still lived in Russia. That's why they're selling them, because all the ones in the museum at the Fechin niche, where I've sat and studied his amazing work often, are western subjects.

If anyone happens to have access to these images, the three are "Bearing Away the Bride," "Peasant Girl," and "Temple Dancer."

dominika
09-19-2011, 02:36 AM
Lauren, Bjorn, Lawrence, Nancy - thank you for comments. Indeed - I was more satisfied until I compared my pale pastel with original bright colours! :lol:

dominika
09-19-2011, 09:36 AM
Nancy, you're lucky to see Fechin's works in original! I've seen his works in google and they are awesome - both paintings and drawings! But I think I haven't seen the three you mentioned. It's a pity they want to sell them.:(

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 02:59 PM
Dominika, I haven't seen the three works they're selling. As far as I know, they never were exhibited but kept in storage, since the Cowboy Hall only shows paintings and other art associated with the American West. We have the biggest Remington and Russell collections you can imagine, and they are exquisite.

Fechin's Bearing Away the Bride" was donated to the museum by helen Krebs in 1975. "Peasant Girl" and "Temple Dancer" were acquired through the estate of Vera S. Miller. Since these were in private homes, I doubt if anyone here has seen them, which makes me want so much for another museum to buy them.

I hope they go to Sotheby's in London for the auction, since the place is famous worldwide and would likely attract European or Russian museums.

That way we could see them!!!

They intend to use the proceeds to buy more Western art.

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 03:08 PM
This Fechin is the one I love to study the most when I go to the Cowboy Hall. Wish I could find a bigger pic of it. I'll take a camera with me the next time I go; the only place they forbid cameras is in the places they have the latest work on exhibit.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Sep-2011/203830-Fechin_Gaucho.jpg

NancyMP
09-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Here is a link (http://digital.newsok.com/OLIVE/ODE/OKLAHOMAN/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=RE9LLzIwMTEvMDkvMTg.&pageno=NjA.&entity=QXIwNjAwMw..&view=ZW50aXR5) to the article about the Fechin sale; it also has two of the Fechin photos.

purplepansey
09-20-2011, 12:51 PM
Here's my attempt at Isabella with pencil and charcoal on hair and a spec of white paint in the eye. I'm not good at capturing a likeness but it's fun trying. :clap: Among other things, I coudn't quite capture the pout of her mouth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2011/52562-My_Sketch_for_Sept._Portrait.jpg

lovin art
09-21-2011, 05:48 PM
Nance :heart: dont get caught snappin off shots .... you good angel ...but if you were in the Louvre , that would be a different story , one could quite easily get locked up in the louvre for bad misbehavior....:D

I like her Purple , shes got something !!!:D

bjornjo
09-21-2011, 07:34 PM
i been to louvren like 3 times if you dont se alot of pepole takeing photos it would be strange they are not so hard about it just dont use flash
purple always hard to capture likeness but you got likeness of the painting for sure

lovin art
09-21-2011, 10:56 PM
i been to louvren like 3 times if you dont se alot of pepole takeing photos it would be strange they are not so hard about it just dont use flash


I was kinda joking Bjorn :wink2: I was actully thinking of a movie , just my Oz wacked sense of humor :D , you'll get use to me , if you have shots please post them for us Girls in the Oily Rag please , seeing as how we have been chatting on there .... :crossfingers: Belive it or not Been to italy when I was younger ... but yet to see the L but I do plan to ....:D

bjornjo
09-22-2011, 08:00 AM
I have no photos from louvren or sistina chapel. but next time i goto louvren i will take photos if i have a decent camera i kinda like france altough i dont speak french altough there are alot of nice places in europe. travlled through altough you cant see everything even by going by train as i have done twice and chit chat with the locals. need to work hard while young so you can travel when old aswell.
excuse me from falling away from portraiture..

sandra and what movie was that?

Willsart
09-23-2011, 04:53 PM
This is an attempt at Leonid Tkachenko's Old Man. I liked his very loose style.

bjornjo
09-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Hey will!
Nice portrait went to your flickr site intressting work both your still lifes and portrait especially the colored evan and sleep.
it looks like oil but is it real oil or digital? you seem to good with both of them :)
How big is it?

Björn

Willsart
09-24-2011, 06:26 PM
Thanks Björn for taking a look at the flicker page. The sleeper painting is oil on hard board about 9" x 12. Thanks for your comments.

Will

lovin art
09-25-2011, 12:43 AM
Really Nice work there Will :clap: :thumbsup: ... like how you handled his beard and hair , well done !

Zinaida Serebriakova (1884-1967) Y. Heidenreich in Red, 1923... theres a couple of hers I really dig , this and another , with I hope to start in oils , maybe time allowing me:crossfingers: :D


this was Charcoal....


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Sep-2011/186639-wc.JPG

bjornjo
09-25-2011, 03:50 PM
Sandra nice one you have such a good handling with your charcoal(or whatever in your hand you can paint/draw with) and like those highlights you did with eraser very good eyes. is this compressed charcoal?

i saw today that they are looking for repin paintings and other russians to auction here in sweden they should get Zinaida Serebriakova well out of my leauge money wise :)

and where is Annie/doppler ?

and here comes another drawing maybe did i save it from the bin that it was so closed to walk to still forhead looks kinda yuck and beard does not quite look like beard but oh well and nose need a rework someone know a good plastic one?
picture removed will post when i worked more on it

bjornjo
09-25-2011, 05:34 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2011/186410-DSCF1085.JPG
still can get the mouth right some advice pls among many other things shape wrong need value to turn it http://uploads7.wikipaintings.org/images/ilya-repin/portrait-of-kryuchkov-1908.jpg

lovin art
09-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Hi Bjorn:angel: , I like you sense of drawing , meaning your seeing certain things but not the over all structure of him , Im sorry if I sound weird,:o I want to explain this to you in my easiest terms , seeing our difference in english ...

I see several things not gelling here for you , look at his basic structure and tilt of his head in the ref, yours is tilted more towards his shoulder , his eyes in the painted ref are more solid and upright staring at the the viewer, yours are lower and his gaze is averted... the Nose needs work his seems much more pronounced and rounded on the end , the lips seem to come to more of a rounded point , I dont know if this makes sense , but these are things Im seeing , once you learn to get the basic structure of the key lines to his shapes placement of eyes , nose , mouth, etc , you will start to see more likeness even at such an early stage in drawing , then its the finer details that will reinforce this likeness as you go along ....also convert the ref to black and whte to work from will help with values also Bj ....:D

if it was me I would restart him ;) .... if I had more time I would send you some more infomation if you like ...

and thankyou for the lovely comment on my work , you are more then lovely , and yes compressed charcoal ... its hard to get use to but Im getting a stronger feel for it in my drawing , it takes alot of practice as you know ...

bjornjo
09-25-2011, 07:14 PM
DONT SPEND TO MUCH TIME ON THIS RANT unless you are bored or have unlimited time

i see i missed the viewers right eye almost 4 mm and left eye dosent turn like it did in the painting and the pupil need to stay in middle or it will look strange.
but most pepole are averted looking unless they are trained doing sign languages

nose really looks bad i should have cut his damned mustasch first so i could really see

and you see to much of top of his head which i guess makes him looks tilted

but i will keep freedrawing and not traceing that will not help me in real life wait can i stick this paper to your head and draw? haha
ahh what dosent takes alot of practise

ok will restart him and see what happens damn those without hair (like me)so you cant make proper meassurements :) he seem to tilt a little forward

lovin art
09-25-2011, 07:38 PM
Bjorn , you miss the hole thing here , I dont use girds etc to draw , never have, , I hate them in fact , I measure with sight, my knitting needle or my pencil thats it ...

for along time it took me ages to even get use to using them as I was against it all thinking it wasnt me being true to myself as an artist drawing what I thought I saw , not really what I should be seeing ...

ps I have faith in you ... Im just trying to help , but maybe why I want to post less and less about this kinda thing ...

Willsart
09-26-2011, 12:59 AM
Hi Bjorn
Nothing wrong with tracing to start. And going back to the basics if it helps. Hope you don't mind, but I sketched him out on my flicker page if you want to take a look. Just did the basic proportions. Also if you havent already checked out Kevin's work you should, he's one the best here.

Sandra, thanks for the comments on Leonid Tkachenko's Old Man copy, looking forward to seeing your piece finished.

Will

lovin art
09-26-2011, 02:48 AM
Will~ with all respect to both you and Bjorn I dont think thats what Bjorn is meaning , but I respect his thoughts ,if it is :D ... I think its what we find helps to get the drawing down to begin with is what counts when starting out as any student of art ....

and yes Mr W ISone of the best ~hes the Ants Pants! and has taught me lots thats for sure on here ....:wink2:

bjornjo
09-26-2011, 06:13 AM
Yeah K.W and roy-p is two that i hold very high for their help to pepole and their excelence in art
Will: not nice todo "headshot" (the name of your drawing on flickr)
very good drawing but i dont want to resort to traceing, but the basic foundation to build on is good like building him from the ball like you did he seems more upright and stable. i will continue my work

Willsart
09-26-2011, 09:37 AM
my apologies all round...

NancyMP
09-26-2011, 10:28 PM
Sandra, I just got back home today and I'm trying to catch up. I was on the road eight hours and I'm a bit done in! :(

Your drawing is lovely :D as it is, and I've decided, for my part, to not ask to see original references - it ends up in my making critiques about accuracy in copying, which doesn't do much.

And, this is general thinking for all of you showing your work on this thread,, I'm beginning to think that making a perfect copy, especially of what is already painted or photographed from life, may not be the major thing to learn from the Masters. Each of us has areas we are trying to do more development in, and I think that whatever way it is seen it is more meaningful for each of us to critique our own work with the individual's knowledge and gradually growing competence. There is no substitute for looking at your own work with a "cold" eye. I mean by that, to imagine how the great artist him- or herself would look at your work and then trying to see it that way can help you gain a lot of insight.

In turn, working with grids and with tracing is perfectly acceptable as a method of reproducing a work; I've ended up doing it myself when I was totally frustrated with getting an image right in freehand. I refuse to feel any shame about that, because I have a lifelong history of life drawing, portraiture from life commissions, and head studies I have made all my life from life or even magazine illustrations.

There is no wrong way to learn how to draw, but it's important to know when in your development that you need to walk without crutches...and to practice, practice, never quit practicing, doing drawing from life freehand!:D

Lecture over!:rolleyes:

Bjorn, your work is definitely showing some improvement!:thumbsup:

Will, that is a very nice piece of work on the old man!:thumbsup:

lovin art
09-27-2011, 01:27 AM
and I'm a bit done in!:(

Yeah , so am I Nance with this hole thing :( .... good to know your home safe girl be well ~ Lady !!!

oh and I thank you and Wc for being the most to me while Ive been here too from my heart !:grouphug:

Hockey Dad
09-27-2011, 09:26 AM
Hi ..i am probably in way over my head in trying this challenge..but thought what the heck..I really liked this fellow..although I thought he looked kind of sinister ( and somewhat cross eyed:lol: )

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2011/589052-chal_1.jpg
Then I wondered if any of these artists, being Russian, had painted the composer Tchaikovsky (one of my musical favs)...,alas no....but Repin had painted Modest Mussorgsky
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2011/589052-ch_6.jpg

, who is quite a famous composer,,best known for his piece.." Pictures at an exhibition"..somewhat appropriate I thought.....I tried a few sketches to see if I could get a likeness..not too great,,but I think I 'll have a go this month and paint him...as I said , in way over my head..but hey...nothing ventured...;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2011/589052-ch2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2011/589052-ch3.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2011/589052-ch4.jpg "
Irwin

dustonpaper
09-27-2011, 02:50 PM
Nancy, thank you so much for bringing these wonderful painters to our attention. This is just the style of painting I really like.

I did a bit of research on Nicolai Fechin wanted to share what I found. I have not seen it posted yet, if it has been I apologize in advance ...

Some stuff about his life and technique, including the palette he used, very interesting to read there:
http://underpaintings.blogspot.com/2009/08/color-palettes-nicolai-ivanovich-fechin.html

Some more stuff, apparently quotes by him:
http://artandinfluence.blogspot.com/2011/03/nicholia-fechin-quotes-on-art.html
http://artandinfluence.blogspot.com/2011/03/nicolai-fechin-art-quotes-part-2.html

The only really high resolution image I was able to find after a not so long search:
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5127542
One can only zoom into it, not see it full size I think. But quite interesting to see the paint structure from close up.

If I find more I post. Apparently he wrote a book called "Notes on art". I was not able to find it yet, but will keep on searching. Maybe it is only available in russian. There must be an autobiography,too ... not sure if that are 2 separate books or only one. I will search later for them, usually I am able to find such stuff at one used book website when I just search long enough.

A translated site about him:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fny-kazan.nyrainbow.com%2Ffechin%2Fnotes_k.htm

This site has listed a lot of russian artists:
http://www.leningradschool.com/

A bit weird to find the way around. Click under "ARTISTS" and then choose one and look for a link to the large scale images, which are quite good.

If I find the time I will try to take part in this challenge. A lot of great paintings in this thread already :clap:

lovin art
09-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Irwin , you got there in the end ~a good likness I see well done ...

Ive started a block in of a figure will post soon I hope ...

bjornjo
09-28-2011, 03:55 AM
dustonpaper intressting reading
irwin .i am probably in way over my head in trying this challenge so am i but still dont hurts to try and alot of fun that beard seems like hard to render unless one uses oil but that third one feels very good
sandra will be good to see

nancy thanks only 990 drawings left since i can begin to decent stuff then if one should steal K.W line

LGHumphrey
09-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Irwin, Kuznetsov painted a portrait of Tchaikovsky in 1893. Here's the link:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Peter_Tschaikowski.jpg

LGHumphrey
09-28-2011, 04:14 PM
Here's a link to a much better quality version of the painting Nancy mentioned, Fechin's magnificent "Bearing Away the Bride."

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=50564

As to the bs about the museum selling it at auction so that more people can have a chance of seeing it.......I bet it'll be snapped up for way above the starting price by some Russian billionaire art collector and stuck into his private gallery, never to be seen again.

Edit: I wonder what the heirs of Helen Krebs think about the museum selling a painting that was donated in good faith only 36 years ago.

Hockey Dad
09-28-2011, 04:56 PM
Hey thanks for the link Lawrence!..I just looked at the 3 artists Nancy had mentioned at the beginning of the thread..buy hey I love the Kuznetsov ..I may try a copy of that one too!!

irwin

NancyMP
09-28-2011, 10:04 PM
Lawrence, I've decided to go to our museum before "Bearing Away the Bride" is removed from its large spot (I have seen it, but couldn't tell from the newspaper photo what it was!) that I've viewed it before, and plead with them, if necessary, to let me take a high-resolution shot of it.

I'm hoping Sotheby's doesn't already have it; I'll call and ask before I go.

dustonpaper, your links were marvelous, and I've bookmarked the first one, what a fantastic job of research!

sidbledsoe
09-29-2011, 09:38 AM
Bjorn , you miss the hole thing here , I dont use girds etc to draw , never have, , I hate them in fact , I measure with sight, my knitting needle or my pencil thats it ... ...
but i will keep freedrawing and not traceing Bjorn, i am late reading your post. just thought i would mention my feelings about this, i really agree with ms alexander (sandra), i would much rather make mistakes and see them with my own two eyes. it is like a couch potatoe vs a weightlifter. if i used grids, projection, tracing, measuring, then i wouldn't even bother painting. i would feel as if i were depriving myself of not only growing but of the heart and soul of the very thing that i love to do. you will improve doing what you just did with your painting, no pain no gain sort of thing, i am correcting a dancer figure in a painting right now :D

NancyMP
09-29-2011, 05:52 PM
Sid, there are a couple of points of view on this sort of thinking. As an example, would you plan construction of a bridge, order your materials, and then throw away the plans after you had started? The thought that just feeling your way rather than organizing your way over the river will work out because you can go back and correct your mistakes in midstream is a bit tenuous.

A study is a study, and you are right in saying that it helps you learn if you make mistakes. In a study. But portraiture is supposed to look like its subject to a large degree. I have repainted eyes that weren't aligned properly in studies enough to have great consideration for the convenience and accuracy of starting out with a good drawing, even if it's a drawing in paint!

I think the couch potato is the person who is so eager to reach the end of the bridge that he doesn't care if it caves in after the next person walks on it. The weightlifter knows the value of constant care and exercise. A heart and a soul also require a brain.

The real problem here is we are addressing beginners, competent artists, and old pros. I wouldn't advise a newbie weightlifter to pick up the 50 lb. barbells to start. The heart and soul will emerge even if one takes care of the basics!

lovin art
09-29-2011, 06:45 PM
The real problem here is we are addressing beginners, competent artists, and old pros. I wouldn't advise a newbie weightlifter to pick up the 50 lb. barbells to start. The heart and soul will emerge even if one takes care of the basics!

good Point Nance , but I see both sides in own thoughts , I will admite to as I said being a total twat when I first started out thinking , what the hell ' huh- I dont need to understand anything but my own hand drawing what is coming from me but how I was seeing what I was drawing, and well it just wasnt what was in front of me ...... I do also think that as soon as I gave into what was just basic Measurement was what made a huge difference in my work it started to take on more strength , but I also think My SEEING has started to kick in too and that is what I have seen made the biggest connection to my being able to make who what Im drawing look simlar, I do tend to use this method to much and therefore it will have mistakes in certain areas , that I will notice in Painting I will enviably have to correct in paint as I go along... and not even the most brilliant artist Im sure have not had their fair share of learning from making these kinda do, dos , I say that because I do think it helps in a way , cause its what we learn from one way of the other ... sorry for my post , and I wish you all good art n Love n Peace :music: ~~~~

sidbledsoe
09-29-2011, 09:30 PM
nice drawings irwin! (yes, that first dude does look very crosseyed)

sidbledsoe
09-30-2011, 10:40 AM
Nancy, I think you have taken my post to another level that I did not imply, my responses in red.
Sid, there are a couple of points of view on this sort of thinking. As an example, would you plan construction of a bridge, order your materials, and then throw away the plans after you had started? The thought that just feeling your way rather than organizing your way over the river will work out because you can go back and correct your mistakes in midstream is a bit tenuous.
I didn't imply that scenario, I just felt like reaffirming bjorn in his quote "but i will keep freedrawing and not traceing" He seemed frustrated and on the verge of traceing instead.
A study is a study, and you are right in saying that it helps you learn if you make mistakes. In a study. But portraiture is supposed to look like its subject to a large degree. I have repainted eyes that weren't aligned properly in studies enough to have great consideration for the convenience and accuracy of starting out with a good drawing, even if it's a drawing in paint!
And that is why the experts agree that freedrawing is instrumental in developing one's hand eye coordination and mental perception and acuity. I have yet to read/hear them recommend traceing as a method to improve those abilities. Yes, I agree that it can give a more accurate result as will photography, grids, projection, etc.
I think the couch potato is the person who is so eager to reach the end of the bridge that he doesn't care if it caves in after the next person walks on it. The weightlifter knows the value of constant care and exercise. A heart and a soul also require a brain.
My analogy was about the option of always traceing(the couch potato option) and how that will tend to not develop one's ability to freedraw vs the option of freedrawing and how that will be beneficial.
The real problem here is we are addressing beginners, competent artists, and old pros. I wouldn't advise a newbie weightlifter to pick up the 50 lb. barbells to start. The heart and soul will emerge even if one takes care of the basics!
I would advise any artist of any level including beginners of the benefits of freedrawing, again I think the experts do agree that this advice would not be a problem to give to beginners. Freedrawing is the most basic thing there is, for painting itself is freedrawing with a brush. Rembrandt is quoted as saying something like "show me an artists' drawings and I will know if he can paint or not"

kevinwueste
09-30-2011, 12:32 PM
Can I agree with Sid and Nancy (" Sid and Nancy" has a certain Sex Pistols ring to it!) and not be seen as mildly schizophrenic? I am in the camp of developing one's free drawing skills and sight measuring, I teach this every day to my students. However, I also, in my beginning days of learning to draw, was given assignments to trace master figure works to get the feel for correctly drawn shapes and force and weight. Although I felt tinged with guilt even doing that, I found the value of building muscle memory in the doing.

If one mostly works from life, there is not really a tracing opportunity anyway! So that is my lot in life! Good discussion!

Kevin

Willsart
09-30-2011, 01:08 PM
Can I agree with Sid and Nancy (" Sid and Nancy" has a certain Sex Pistols ring to it!) and not be seen as mildly schizophrenic? I am in the camp of developing one's free drawing skills and sight measuring, I teach this every day to my students. However, I also, in my beginning days of learning to draw, was given assignments to trace master figure works to get the feel for correctly drawn shapes and force and weight. Although I felt tinged with guilt even doing that, I found the value of building muscle memory in the doing.

If one mostly works from life, there is not really a tracing opportunity anyway! So that is my lot in life! Good discussion!

Kevin


"in my beginning days --to get the feel for correctly drawn shapes and force and weight." Exactly!
Tracing not to copy every line or gesture. Trace to get the sense or feel of shape and proportion.

bjornjo
09-30-2011, 05:19 PM
Sid good points i will keep freedrawing but sometimes i cant make sense of when pepole comment on my drawings and then i can use my drawing and place it onto the painting on the computer and compare.
when one does not need to be financial dependent on painting/drawing and epsecially portaiture where accuracy it very important

Kevin dident see it hurted you much your figure drawing/portrait are amazing like your mention of sex pistol :) yeah hard todo traceing on life class

nancy i always value your thoughts as still being a beginner i proably have to work on both you and sid comments really complement

Willsart hope you got my privmsg and yeah it seem so have a point not only for accuracy

luicre
09-30-2011, 09:34 PM
Sid good points i will keep freedrawing but sometimes i cant make sense of when pepole comment on my drawings and then i can use my drawing and place it onto the painting on the computer and compare.
when one does not need to be financial dependent on painting/drawing and epsecially portaiture where accuracy it very important

Kevin dident see it hurted you much your figure drawing/portrait are amazing like your mention of sex pistol :) yeah hard todo traceing on life class

nancy i always value your thoughts as still being a beginner i proably have to work on both you and sid comments really complement

Willsart hope you got my privmsg and yeah it seem so have a point not only for accuracy


Quite an interesting discussion here.

Bjorn, I have putt your thought about portraiture in black because you are right.

When I attempted free drawing I felt bad but in my case I was looking for some likeness.

I think it`s up to you an your goals. And I also think and it is my very very humble opinion that some basics knowledgements in drawing can`t hurt...

It is also the subject about if you admire some specific work, some particular artist....

And I have to agree that sometimes when I try free drawing it feels quite liberating.

I remember now something I have read about Picasso: before he went into cubism he was a great draftsman.

Well, happy drawing, bjorn..

Saludos

Luicre

sidbledsoe
09-30-2011, 09:45 PM
sometimes I think it is better if I just pm a member with encouraging comments.

lovin art
10-01-2011, 08:52 AM
sometimes I think it is better if I just pm a member with encouraging comments.


:lol: :lol: yeah me too ... ;) funny how I kind started all this with my thoughts to bjorn , which we worked out via pm anyhow !!!...:D Bjorn do whats best for you , in the end thats all that really matters ...:rolleyes:

Lauren F-M
10-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Great discussion! :clap:
I guess I'll throw in my two cents.... :rolleyes:
I often trace my own drawings (free-hand ones) -- when I want to check or correct something, tracing over the drawing is the easiest way to see what I need to see. Or, if I'm developing an illustration (as I do illustration work), I'll start with roughs, and work up the drawing by tracing. I'll often cut and move something, and eventually work out the composition that way. This also works for a drawing I want to paint, to later transfer on to a canvas or board. I've also (for illustration or murals) taken my drawings to a photocopier to change the size, then cut it out and worked out compostion; then traced the final composition before transferring it to the final surface. Whatever works.

I think we each fine-tune what works best, for the circumstances we are in. :D

GaryNorthants
10-08-2011, 08:13 PM
Graphite on cartridge paper :wave:
Best wishes
Gary

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Oct-2011/106728-drawing-finish.jpg

dustonpaper
10-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Great work by you all. This style of painting is really really hard to copy well.

I started mine today ... not happy with most of it though, too much blending and all. I really like the broken brushstrokes, but it would be nice if I would be able to put them where they belong :o

Started out with a rough placement:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Oct-2011/325641-wc_1_IMG_1055.JPG

After about 1 hour:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Oct-2011/325641-wc_2_IMG_1059.JPG


After about 2 hours, I only worked for 10 minutes longer than that photo:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Oct-2011/325641-wc_3_IMG_1063.JPG

I made a high resolution picture here:
http://dustonpaper.smugmug.com/Art/Portrait/19438152_g4N8pb#1520549387_LZJr6WC-O-LB

Not sure if I will keep it. N. Fechin left a lot of parts of the canvas unpainted and achieved some nice effects that way. Don't know if I can get there with this one since I already smeared paint on some of the parts that he left blank.

Edit:
Now that I look at it at the screen I see that it is all wrong. Tilt of the head and all doesn't fit. I think I'll have to start that one again.

lovin art
10-09-2011, 07:48 PM
this is looking like great practice study , Dustin :thumbsup: , I anm seeing the tilt is off like you say , shes slightly tilted and the jaw comes forward slightly ...also Im seeing her mouth as slightly raised and turned upwards to the outer curve ~do you see what Im meaning ? great you posted this , we are all learning here like you say ...Thankyou Dustin!!:D

dustonpaper
10-10-2011, 04:04 PM
Thank you Sandra.

Yes, good tip with the mouth. I see it now that you say it. Too late here to start working on it or begin a new. Hopefully I get to it later his week. I really like that painting, as well as Fechin's other works. Really a great painter he was.

Sizun
10-12-2011, 06:45 AM
Dustonpaper, Fechin was a great artist but very difficult to copy. This portrait you selected is not easy and her face has unusual proportions too because of her solid jaw and features that are a bit high on her face (?)

I chose to draw Isabella by Serov. I used graphite instead of charcoal. I'm not a great fan of blending but did it as I wanted to stay as near as possible of the original drawing.

Very interesting experience as I would never have rendered such dark eyes. Moreover, I loved the design and style qualities of the Serov drawing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2011/176244-Isabella_-_Serov-web.jpg

bjornjo
10-12-2011, 05:18 PM
gary a very nice drawing very nice eyes
dustonpaper a very tough to archive the effect i think but im not experienced oil painter hope to see your next try, difficult color mixes i think
sizun yeah and you did a fine justice for him he got a really nice design

mringey
10-14-2011, 09:08 PM
Wow-- I wish I checked this out earlier -- what great translations. If I have time I'd love to attempt one of these. In the meantime (because Dana showed her beautiful Harlamoff), I will show my very "loose" translation in pastel of Peasant Girl by Harlamoff done a while back. KUDOS to all! :clap:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Oct-2011/78516-78516-Peasant_Girl_MR_sized.jpg
Original:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Oct-2011/78516-Harlamoff_Alexei_Alexeiewitsch_Portrait_Of_A_Peasant_Girl_copy.jpg

123harry
10-15-2011, 06:55 AM
Very nicely done, Melissa, it's a lovely picture.

Dana Design
10-15-2011, 10:48 AM
Melissa, it's beautiful. You've caught the essence of this child. Well done!

Sizun
10-15-2011, 12:32 PM
Your pastel rendition of this little girl is very delicate, with subbtle colors. A delight for the eyes.

mringey
10-15-2011, 06:21 PM
Thanks -- Sizun, Dana, & Harry -- doing this really helped me be much more loose (which makes it hard to make an exact copy), and I realize how helpful copying masters can be. All of the above works are amazing. I'm hoping to do the Indian girl, because it's so loose and abstract.

Sizun -- your rendition is really exact spot on to the original -- love the moody eyes!! Very well rendered even if graphite and not charcoal!

NancyMP
10-15-2011, 10:39 PM
Sizun, your Serov drawing is lovely! I may risk dong that one myself, as so far, I haven't done any of them for fear of failure. I have to give myself a good talk about failing simply because I don't try!

Melissa, excellent work of the harlamoff! Her sweetness shines through beautifully!

Dustonpaper, I'm going to do a skull study on the Fechin Indian Girl. I don't think I would try Fechin's style, as some of his paintings have cracked and were ruined very early on by that rugged technique. Maybe adapt it a bit so that it looks somewhat Fechin-like, but with more attention paid to longevity.

NancyMP
10-15-2011, 11:52 PM
I don't know if this will help any, but I hope so. With the extra fat under the skin that is present in children, it helps me to imagine the skull beneath the skin. Here are four images: first a copy of the Fechin Indian Girl who is likely 12 years old or younger; then a copy of her lightened to see where color is deepest. Next copy is a de-saturation that shows the gray values, and the fourth is a sketch of how I think her skull may look, with the bone in white pencil and the fat in orange pencil.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Oct-2011/203830-fechin1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Oct-2011/203830-fechin1_copy.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Oct-2011/203830-fechin1_copy_2.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Oct-2011/203830-Fechins_Indian_Girl_skull.jpg

Libellule
10-16-2011, 05:50 AM
What an interresting challenge, and a discovery for me all these great russian artists.
Many wonderful interpretation, congratulations to all.
I attempted the portrait of Isabella from Serov, with black ink, charcoal and white pastel on kraft paper.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Oct-2011/568971-Dapres_Serov_mini.jpg

Sizun
10-16-2011, 08:57 AM
mringey : I'm in the process of training my eye seriously at the moment so I spent a lot of time on measuring and placement.

Nancy, you did a very interesting job with these study pictures. Especially the one with the skull. Now I feel I have no excuse not to try this one...

Libellule, I like your rendition of Isabella. Choosing Kraft paper and mixed media was a challenge and yet, you succeeded in keeping the original feeling of the drawing.

beetee
10-18-2011, 09:20 PM
All excellent portraits,

my late night 1/2 hour sketchhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2011/197555-ivan-002.jpg

all the best

Brian

Hockey Dad
10-19-2011, 01:05 PM
Nice work folks..

Here's where I'm at with Repin's Modest Moussorgsky...http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Oct-2011/589052-mouss.jpg

I am going to keep working on it..I really don't know what I'm doing..every time I paint in colour (I mostly have been sticking to B&W),,my palette turns into one big mess..don't know where any colours are ..I just fart around and play in the puddles..I need to figure out a better method:o

I read that when Repin painted him he was in hospital in fairly bad health, do to his abuse of alcohol..and died 2 days after the painting was completed..anyway sorry for rambling ..here is the original..
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Oct-2011/589052-repin31.jpg

( funny I found a bunch pictures on the internet and many colour variations on them ,,I actually worked from a couple..definately not a good idea,,sorry for rambling....cheers!

ooh just had a look at the prepost..me thinks I need to tone mine down a bit.:lol: .

Irwin

LGHumphrey
10-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Irwin, some of the reproductions on internet make him look like "Rudolf the Red knows rain, dear." The one you've posted is accurate.

123harry
10-19-2011, 06:57 PM
This is faithful to the original but still a free interpretation, I like that. Rather a tragic portrait really.

Hockey Dad
10-20-2011, 06:57 AM
Right you are Lawrence..I think mine tends to learn towards the Rain dear:lol: :lol: ..although if he did have a weakness for the bottle so may be explained..

hey thanks for your comment Harry..I think I will still try and tone down the colours a bit..and work on a few likeness issues

Irwin

Sizun
10-21-2011, 12:19 PM
Irwin, you're getting a nice result with this one, although maybe the eyes are a little different from the original. They are more open and seem to look higher up...

I'd like to try the indian girl, so I began a rough block-in, and now I'm kind of stuck :( although I can see some possibilities... to be followed.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Oct-2011/176244-wip1-web.JPG

mringey
10-22-2011, 08:48 PM
Irwin, I like your colorful version. It's very well done and I like the looseness of it. Sizun, the start of Indian Girl looks good, can't wait to see more. I'm hoping to tackle this same one this coming week, though it's almost the end of October (end of the challenge?).

Sizun
10-25-2011, 03:21 PM
Melissa, you're going to see more, although at some point I though there would be nothing more to see... ;)

This is stage 2, at this point I hesitated between refining the grisaille or adding color.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2011/176244-wip2-web.JPG

I decided to take risks and add color. But I used slightly different colors : burnt Sienna, golden ochre and ultramarine blue.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2011/176244-wip3-web.JPG

Acrylic in a watercolor sketchbook

mringey
10-28-2011, 09:51 PM
Sizun, Your Indian Girl is coming along great -- love the complementary colors you're using!
I finally had some "free" time to paint. This is after 2 1/2 hours, and I was really having fun, but had to stop when the family came home. :(

Love my family, but they make it hard to get any artwork done!

So here it is (painting on left/top), and I managed to squeeze it into this thread by the end of October. I'd like to do more tweaks, we'll see. For me, this is only a loose interpretation, as it would be hard for me to "copy" exactly while trying to paint loosely as this was painted, so, it is not perfect by far. Pastels on 9x12 Wallis. C&C welcome.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/78516-Fechin_Indian_Girl_MR_interpretation01_600_px_copy.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/78516-203830-fechin1_mr.jpg

Sizun
10-29-2011, 04:52 AM
Melissa, yours is beautifull. You rendered very subtle tones and colors with pastel. This is a thing I find hard with acrylic. I struggle to mix subtle colors and values. It seems easier with oils for example, but then it is so slippery...
Studying a painting is easier than studying from a photograph, but copying it exactly in a loose style is very difficult. You managed to keep the initial feeling of looseness in spite of a different medium. Well done.

mringey
10-29-2011, 06:13 PM
Thanks Sizun, I do agree that it is easier to copy from a painting because the artist has already given us the "formula." Acrylic would be hard, but I think the looseness can still be achieved with quickness of strokes (maybe?), but I agree the color blending would be challenging. I used to always paint fast in oils, then somehow I tightened up and switched to pastels, learned "technique." Now, I'm trying to keep the technique but still paint fast and loose in pastels. I'm hoping to get back to oils. I started out with acrylics, but was told (years ago) by professors, that I was trying to paint as if I had oils. It's all fun, and I hope to see more of your Indian Girl! Thanks!