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Goldeelocks
07-23-2011, 03:53 PM
I wonder if Acrylics really dry darker, my Golden Heavy Body dry lighter, not darker.

I see this with Yellow too, it's drying lighter, not darker.

Can anyone show me acrylics drying darker?



Left is dry, right is wet, the left is much lighter. It isn't because the substrate is coming through, it's completely covered.

Mars black:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jul-2011/204698-black.JPG



I did this test with black industrial paint as a substrate, it is pitch black.. I then went over it with my Mars Black, the black when it went on was equal to the industrial black, I could not find where I painted, but after about 10 minutes it was much lighter and I could pinpoint the spot where I laid the paint down.

Goldeelocks
07-23-2011, 04:04 PM
More proof ^^

If I limit the colors to 20 in Painter, you can see that the edges are starting to dry and the center is still wet.... the edges on both patches are drying to a grey while the wet center is still wet and much darker. That's the exact opposite of what people are saying happens to Acrylics.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jul-2011/204698-blackxx.JPG

Goldeelocks
07-23-2011, 04:11 PM
Hm, the reason acrylics dry darker according to some literature is because of the binder, which is somewhat opaque and white, and it dries clearer.

I read some brands now use a clear binder though, so the reverse might be happening to those brands, you think?

Aires
07-24-2011, 05:23 PM
I've quite an inventory of a well known brand of acrylics and my experience is that it does dry a bit darker. Often you will read in books on painting with acrylic that is to be expected, thus making it difficult to match new mixes to what is already dried. This result has always been one of my pet peeves with acrylics even though the advice books say not to try for exact matches, that the difference adds variety. If the newer acrylics have overcome this problem, that is indeed good news. I'll be interested in the experience of others in color change from wet to dry. There have been so many recent changes that you may well be onto something that would be a welcome development. Thanks for posting, your findings are new to me.

idaandersenlang
07-25-2011, 11:25 AM
Hi there goldeelocks :)
I will try to tell what I have experienced. My background on saying these things is that I have worked in an artsuppliers shop for quite some years, and I have had my hands on many many different paints

Concerning paint drying up darker. The reason for this, as you mention is that the binder can be more or less white when it is wet. the cheaper the binder, the bigger the problem is. So this is quite an issue (among other issues) with cheap student grade paint. It is true that some manufactorers claim that they have found a binder now wich is completely clear when wet, and that it should eliminate this problem. However, there are many other things to concern.

Firstly, many, many paints contains binders in higher or lesser degree. Typically this "blind" material contains of a colorless kind of plastic flour, or sometimes caolin powder. This will always make the paint more matte, when it dries up, and i suspect, also appear lighter.

Concerning paint drying up lighter. Of course this is not the case with Golden HB, wich is a fine art quality paint. In general, if a paint dries up matte, and this is a natural condition for many pigments, it will appear lighter, since the light is bounced off in a different manner than glossy wet paint. Have you tried to give your test a layer of gloss varnish, to see if it eliminates the difference? I think I would try and do that, just to find out if thatīs the problem here. Varnishing in gloss, will always deepen the colors.

My general experience is that there will always be some changes of appearence in some colors, no matter the quality. I guess one just has to accept that paint has its own "life" and just try to follow the flow.
However my general advice is always to stick with artist quality paint, which is always as pure as possible both concerning pigments, binders and fillers.

If one needs a greater quantity of a mixed paint, I suggest to buy empty tubes and premix a larger quantity.

Hope this reply is a little helpful :)

Einion
07-25-2011, 02:46 PM
Moved from Colour Theory.

...

Standard acrylics do dry darker because of the change in the binder from milky to clear as you mention. The other factor with paint that is significant is surface finish as idaandersenlang mentions in the post above, where a glossy surface will often look darker than a matt surface of the same colour (the lower the value the more you'll see this - extremely different with black, barely any difference with white).

Einion

DominicM
07-25-2011, 03:11 PM
there is a slight colour shift in the W&N Galleria range but its almost negligable, and the Galleria varnish restores the brightness again

Goldeelocks
07-25-2011, 04:25 PM
Thanks all for the replies.

@Aires thank you, I wish there was more info about this, which brand does what or somet tests how much hue difference there really is

@Idaan I would gloss if I had some, up till now I preferred the matte look. Sometimes my acrylics do look more dead than oil which seems to glow a tiny bit more, but maybe that's just because it's not dried yet.

I'll see if I can find some gloss from Golden somewhere. I just don't want my stuff to get that 10mm varnish mirror look either you know.

Goldeelocks
07-25-2011, 04:26 PM
there is a slight colour shift in the W&N Galleria range but its almost negligable, and the Galleria varnish restores the brightness again

Haven't used Galleria yet, only W&N artist's acrylics, but good to know about the varnish.

Goldeelocks
07-25-2011, 04:27 PM
Moved from Colour Theory.

...

Standard acrylics do dry darker because of the change in the binder from milky to clear as you mention. The other factor with paint that is significant is surface finish as idaandersenlang mentions in the post above, where a glossy surface will often look darker than a matt surface of the same colour (the lower the value the more you'll see this - extremely different with black, barely any difference with white).

Einion

Ok, maybe the varnish can compensate for this, just scared to use it because when I get pictures developed I always take the matte look, I don't like much reflectance, will see.

chammi kaiser
07-25-2011, 04:29 PM
Never have a problem with Liquitex. I find the colour variation from wet to dry minimal. Always mix my glazes with their varnish and no problems whatsoever.

Goldeelocks
07-25-2011, 04:31 PM
Thanks Chammi, maybe I'm making too big a deal out of this.

Stacey3352
07-25-2011, 04:43 PM
You could try bone black but it dries gloss.

Goldeelocks
07-25-2011, 04:46 PM
@stacey I should have some bone black soon, since OPEN doesn't sell Mars Black (even though I'm on my 2nd whine email of when they will add it!). They have it in Heavy Body but not in OPEN, they did tell me they can add any color from HB to OPEN though, the only thing that differs is the binder they told me. So I might update with bone black when able. thank you!

idaandersenlang
07-25-2011, 05:22 PM
Hi again :)
Goldeelocks@ I totally understand that you donīt want the glossy look, in fact I rarely varnish my paintings (oilpaintings) unless necessary. I think in fact that carbon black, wich exists in G Open too, is an exellent black...just to mention... :)
to even out your pictures, you could choose Goldens Satin Varnish, and just give it one thin layer. It changes the image only a little, but still evens out the differences of matte and gloss.