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nana b
03-13-2011, 11:55 AM
I truely appreciate what your doing and I think you are sharing some great stuff that we're not getting from anyone else...I wonder if you have considered waiting till class on Saturday and Sunday to review and critigue the images that artists are uploading for their homework? It seems to me that it's a little redundant to do it two places.....I'm having a problem with following as closely as I should in class because I have already taken a quick look at your answers on the forums and then probably am missing some things I shouldn't with me dividing my attention between the forum answers and class answers. I may have more time than some of the other participating artist but still it is a time constraint for me. I find myself losing my train of thought in class because I have seen it before in the forum and may be missing other vital points I need to in class........and I don't want' to miss anything:wave:
I hope you take this as a positive suggestion because I appreciate the time and expertise you're spending on this for us!

One of your dedicated students, Phyllis, aka nana b

caemin
03-13-2011, 12:43 PM
I agree with you, Phyllis, and have the same experience as you. I understand that repetition and practice is the key to learning these concepts, but I also find my mind wandering when we're going over these things so many times. I also find wading through all of the many posts here time consuming and tedious, but since I don't know what will actually be talked about in the class and what will be left out, I try to make the time to slog through all the repetitious postings for the few nuggets of useful information that might be hidden in there and not mentioned in class. I have to say that I don't think WC is the best venue for a class like this - by the look of the repetitious questions on how to find handouts, ask questions, where to put homework, etc, it's obviously too cumbersome and difficult to navigate for many of the people new to this site.

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 01:54 PM
I have a different point of view. I like it that Johannes critiques and comments here on WC, and it's okay if he comments on the same paintings in class. I have several reasons.

First, there are WAY more things posted here than he comments on in class. He only goes over a page or two in class - and people may have posted a half dozen or more pages here. If he only commented in class, there would be a lot more students who received no comments on their posts. It is generally helpful to have comments on one's post.

Second, his comments in class tend to be more complete (yes, frequently repetitious, but I guess that's when you fold laundry). Also, by showing what he means with Photoshop, it can be more meaningful and easier to apply to one's own work. One thing that startles me though, is that he will explain something to the point where I could write a three-page essay, and STILL someone will ask him a question that indicates they don't get it. I don't know if they are tuning out or what, but (even tho it makes me crazy) I can see that he needs to repeat for quite a few students.

Third, and this is especially true for painting critiques, the student may be waiting anxiously for his comment on WC so that they can continue with their painting. It would not be fair to make them wait up to a week for comments.

Actually, yesterday's class was the most deadly for me because it was ALL review - and having been to all previous classes, I was definitely playing computer games half the time, just listening and glancing at the screen. (The "nuts & bolts" had very little of interest because it was mostly about oil tips, and I'm a pastelist.) But I have a couple of friends who are brand new to the classes, and I'm sure it was great for them.

Finally, are you aware that if you click on "Partner: WetCanvas Live," you will get the LIST of threads and any thread that has a new post (since the last time you looked) will be in bold? Then you just need to click on "Last Page" and it will take you to the most recent page in the thread. That will usually be whatever you haven't seen yet.

Well, just my opinion. :)

caemin
03-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Sherry, I'm sure there are as many points of view as there are people in the class and they are all valid! Thanks for sharing yours - you've made some good points.

Having been a WC member for several years, I know how to navigate the site and find the new posts. I can only imagine how cumbersome it feels to some of the newbies here. It would be helpful if, like Robert has done, Jo would be more insistent that certain threads be used for certain postings and if moderators moved/removed posts that are in the wrong place since the way it is now, posts are all over the place, which adds to the confusion. I know that they are removing certain posts because I posted a message about one of the recommended books being available on amazon for much less money and that was removed fairly quickly.

I agree with you about the class being all review yesterday. It might help if he announced when a class was going to be all review so we could have a choice about whether or not to attend - for me, there's already too much review at the beginning of each class. We had a nice day here and I would have much preferred to be doing something other than spending 3 hrs listening to reviews of what's already been reviewed numerous times. Maybe I just get things more quickly than others, but I find the constant reviewing tiresome. I do understand that there are differences in how people learn and others clearly need more repetition than I do. I'm a watercolorist and I have no idea what they're talking about in the oil painting conversations, so I tend to drift away there, too. Once my attention moves on to checking my email or playing games, I find myself missing things because I've tuned out.

kittierue
03-13-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm going to weigh in here. I treat these sessions as if I'm paying the $650 or $950 that I'd be paying in the real world (FOR A 4 DAYS ONLY WORKSHOP). I close my door, and listen. When my mind wanders, it's MY JOB to stay on track. I experience this even in a face-to-face class. Heck, my mind can wander when I'm in my private lesson! How lame is that? :)

Johannes is a very good teacher, and he understands that basic concepts need to be repeated over and over. He uses different sample photos, and even though some parts are repetitious, I have rarely been totally bored. If it sounds like something I already know, I pull out my sketchbook and draw the concept.

It's my job to pay attention and to know when it's safe to "zone out", or not.

I'm also very glad he's not doing class review during the weekend class, we would not get any knowledge transfer. I much prefer the structure as it is. I especially like the knowledge that I'm gaining at no cost to me except my attention. Okay, Just My Humble Opinion, and Your Mileage May Vary.

Happy class!!!!

Grainne
03-13-2011, 03:11 PM
I'm going to weigh in here. I treat these sessions as if I'm paying the $650 or $950 that I'd be paying in the real world (FOR A 4 DAYS ONLY WORKSHOP). I close my door, and listen. When my mind wanders, it's MY JOB to stay on track. I experience this even in a face-to-face class. Heck, my mind can wander when I'm in my private lesson! How lame is that? :)

Johannes is a very good teacher, and he understands that basic concepts need to be repeated over and over. He uses different sample photos, and even though some parts are repetitious, I have rarely been totally bored. If it sounds like something I already know, I pull out my sketchbook and draw the concept.

It's my job to pay attention and to know when it's safe to "zone out", or not.

I'm also very glad he's not doing class review during the weekend class, we would not get any knowledge transfer. I much prefer the structure as it is. I especially like the knowledge that I'm gaining at no cost to me except my attention. Okay, Just My Humble Opinion, and Your Mileage May Vary.

Happy class!!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: To all the points above!

All of us are getting something that is priceless, and it's free! Jo's the expert on how best to mediate this information, and it's my job to lap it all up any way I can. It would take several classes or workshops at $600-1200 a pop, including expenses, to get what we are getting gratis. And even then, we probably would not get all the good nuggets we are getting here. If you've taken university art classes or expensive workshops, you know how little real help you actually get.

As an educator myself I know the value that repetition plays in really learning any material, learning it to the point where you can assimilate it and it becomes second nature.

Plus there is definitely the consideration to be made for all those participants who were not fortunate to be in on these classes from the beginning back in December as some of us were.


Grainne

caemin
03-13-2011, 04:29 PM
I agree with you both, Kittie and Grainne about the value of the classes and I thoroughly appreciate all that Jo is sharing with us. I've been here every week since the start, logging in an hour early to make sure I get in.

I have to say, though, I haven't had the same experiences as you with classes and other teachers. I've been painting for just 3 yrs and have been fortunate to attend workshops and classes with excellent teachers who shared their knowledge and spent enough time with you to make sure you got the concepts they were teaching. They've been worth every single penny they cost! I also have been lucky enough to have teachers who taught values, value masses, using value and color studies to plan prior to actually painting, design concepts, etc. Jo talks as though no one out there knows or teaches these concepts, but I know for a fact that is not true.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:51 PM
I truely appreciate what your doing and I think you are sharing some great stuff that we're not getting from anyone else...I wonder if you have considered waiting till class on Saturday and Sunday to review and critigue the images that artists are uploading for their homework? It seems to me that it's a little redundant to do it two places.....I'm having a problem with following as closely as I should in class because I have already taken a quick look at your answers on the forums and then probably am missing some things I shouldn't with me dividing my attention between the forum answers and class answers. I may have more time than some of the other participating artist but still it is a time constraint for me. I find myself losing my train of thought in class because I have seen it before in the forum and may be missing other vital points I need to in class........and I don't want' to miss anything:wave:
I hope you take this as a positive suggestion because I appreciate the time and expertise you're spending on this for us!

One of your dedicated students, Phyllis, aka nana b
As far as I know while the concepts are repetitive, I don't think I repeat the exact same references in the threads. Not to worry we will cover all the syllabus by April 17.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:58 PM
Good I hope I drilled these concepts of masses deep into your minds. Redundant means you got it! It is very easy to deviate from this mass mapping. Any way next class is something different. Now take into account that those who took web classes with me last year will hear some repetition more than those from just those who are taking this course.

nana b
03-13-2011, 07:55 PM
I don't mind repetition...I know that's an important tool and I want it. And I think by what I said that everone should realize how much I appreciate Johannes and his teachings. I think I made that very clear. The only repitition I was referring too was the artist image uploads the were getting hit twice. No, I know not all of them were. And it was just an idea that I thought might be useful to all of us.
I haven't missed any classes either and sign in one hour early to insure I get in too just like most everyone else.
And I still can't believe that this is coming free to us....wow!

nana b

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 08:03 PM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: To all the points above!

All of us are getting something that is priceless, and it's free! Jo's the expert on how best to mediate this information, and it's my job to lap it all up any way I can. It would take several classes or workshops at $600-1200 a pop, including expenses, to get what we are getting gratis. And even then, we probably would not get all the good nuggets we are getting here. If you've taken university art classes or expensive workshops, you know how little real help you actually get.
I agree on the value - just amazing. I have not missed a class and don't plan to. I stay until he turns it off. The "nuggets" - so many. (Even when I click onto my computer game - it's simple, mindless, and occupies a box about 2x4 inches, so I can still see J's screen and hear him speaking. It actually HELPS me stay tuned in. :) )

As an educator myself I know the value that repetition plays in really learning any material, learning it to the point where you can assimilate it and it becomes second nature.
Another value of repeating concepts is that by the time he's doing the same thing on example #3,4, 5, etc. you can PRACTICE and TEST YOURSELF to see if you're getting it by trying to predict what he might say.


Plus there is definitely the consideration to be made for all those participants who were not fortunate to be in on these classes from the beginning back in December as some of us were.
THIS IS SO TRUE. I just turned another friend on to the classes on Friday, and today after class she emailed me, "WOW! I loved the classes. I can see why you have enjoyed them so much. Mahalo nui loa for introducing me to them! Thank you also for showing me how to explore youtube and wet canvas! I am still a novice but will use these sources and, with practice, become more familiar with them thanks to you!"

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 09:00 PM
Sherry, I'm sure there are as many points of view as there are people in the class and they are all valid!
Well, shoot, I generally try to have several points of view all by myself. :rolleyes: Makes for some good internal discussions.

Having been a WC member for several years, I know how to navigate the site and find the new posts. I can only imagine how cumbersome it feels to some of the newbies here. It would be helpful if, like Robert has done, Jo would be more insistent that certain threads be used for certain postings and if moderators moved/removed posts that are in the wrong place since the way it is now, posts are all over the place, which adds to the confusion. I know that they are removing certain posts because I posted a message about one of the recommended books being available on amazon for much less money and that was removed fairly quickly.
Yes, now that I look, I can see that you've posted a few hundred times. By now, I can imagine you've rather got the hang of it. :)

Well, I am in complete agreement with your sentiments about how jumbled it all is. Very tough to figure out where something "should" be, and many people are pretty much ignoring the thread "topics." I suppose it's all those right brains over-ruling the logical left brain. Or, more likely, it's suddenly having LOTS of newbies trying to figure out a site all at once, wanting to post right away instead of lurking for weeks first to see how things are done...

I just wish we'd see more clear and frequent reminders like Robert's. For example on the Handouts thread, it's getting out of control again. I posted reminders a couple of times already; your turn. :)

caemin
03-13-2011, 09:48 PM
Well, shoot, I generally try to have several points of view all by myself. :rolleyes: Makes for some good internal discussions. :lol::lol:


Yes, now that I look, I can see that you've posted a few hundred times. By now, I can imagine you've rather got the hang of it. :) Yes, but it's still hard to find things sometimes. WC is a HUGE site and has a HUGE amount of information, it's just not set up to navigate very easily.

Well, I am in complete agreement with your sentiments about how jumbled it all is. Very tough to figure out where something "should" be, and many people are pretty much ignoring the thread "topics." I suppose it's all those right brains over-ruling the logical left brain. Or, more likely, it's suddenly having LOTS of newbies trying to figure out a site all at once, wanting to post right away instead of lurking for weeks first to see how things are done...
I just wish we'd see more clear and frequent reminders like Robert's. For example on the Handouts thread, it's getting out of control again. I posted reminders a couple of times already; your turn. :) I'm happy to help you :) but it doesn't seem like people are even reading what's in the threads. How often do you see someone looking for the handouts, for instance, and see that the handout is in the post just below theirs. Didn't they even LOOK?

I think the best way to keep the handout thread clean is for Johannes to put PLEASE DO NOT POST ANYTHING TO THIS THREAD! in every one of his posts like Robert does.As soon as Robert did that, all the extra postings stopped in his thread.

Nahant
03-13-2011, 09:54 PM
I will weigh in on the demos which I love and find the most valuable of Johaness's many effective instructional strategies. However, for technology newbies like myself, the challenges of keeping pace are many. I value colleagial sharing but today I was frustrated by the quickly flowing chat stream which was filled with so much non- related filler relating to geography, wine, etc., etc. I found it very hard to follow the art related questions and answers which are usually common concerns shared by many viewers. Several times I would be following something, only to have it interrupted by something entirely unrelated, and the discussion I had been following got eaten up by cyberspace. I could not return to it for follow through. I feel like I'm in a studio, trying to learn from a master, while being continuously distracted by the loudchatter of over 1000 students all talking at once. I know I can deal with it by turning off the chat, focussing on Johannes, and listening to his responses to questions that Kenneth pulls from the chat. While that would deprive me of the sharing experience and the ability to ask questions, it is the action I will take if the chat continues to go off on so many tangents. I have attended every session to date, and today was the first time I became so frustrated. The Webinar is a wonderful learning experience, Johannes is an extroadinary instructor and I plan to remain a faithful follower! Thanks for listening!

Betty

Betty

kittierue
03-13-2011, 09:57 PM
Caemin, You are SO FORTUNATE to have the experiences you have. I have just last year left the world of professional photography and began painting in January 2010. I'm a self-starter, never believed in taking "workshops", and indeed, the majority of education in the professional photographic world is less than complete. Think about it. Most of the time a workshop is by someone who is teaching you to compete with them.

My experience with photography is that I would get everything but maybe one little, critical item. Bummer!

Now, fast forward to 2010 up to today. The 2 best things that have helped me so far have been a weekly landscape painting class with a young Spaniard for 3 hours a week dovetailed with this lovely online workshop by Johannes. I get my technical learning and then I get to practice it!

Yes, there are so many levels of ability, but the artists, both painters and photographers who I really respect, continue to have a beginner's mind for the craft and art. That allows them to approach each session with freshness.

Perhaps your head is full! I get that way sometimes. :D I'm trying to cram 20 years of knowledge into my poor brain and hands in the space of a few years! It hurts. When that happens, I eat popcorn and watch mindless comedy. Then I reread something I already know.

Caemin, this looks like it's being said to you, but I just realized, I'M TALKING TO MYSELF, TOO! Thank you for making me think about this. I hope you find the inspiration and the nuggets of gold that are there.

all my best,
Kittie

I've been painting for just 3 yrs and have been fortunate to attend workshops and classes with excellent teachers who shared their knowledge and spent enough time with you to make sure you got the concepts they were teaching. They've been worth every single penny they cost! I also have been lucky enough to have teachers who taught values, value masses, using value and color studies to plan prior to actually painting, design concepts, etc. Jo talks as though no one out there knows or teaches these concepts, but I know for a fact that is not true.

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 10:17 PM
... it doesn't seem like people are even reading what's in the threads. How often do you see someone looking for the handouts, for instance, and see that the handout is in the post just below theirs. Didn't they even LOOK?
My sister in spirit!! The thread is called "Posted HANDOUTS for class discussion" and people say, "where are the handouts posted?" Sheesh.

BUT otoh, he posts a reference photo.... where? Or the final from the demo.... where?

I think the best way to keep the handout thread clean is for Johannes to put PLEASE ... [rest of that line deleted to avoid even more confusion] in every one of his posts like Robert does.As soon as Robert did that, all the extra postings stopped in his thread.
BUT... someone wants to post the website where we can read/download the "Eye of the Painter" book - doesn't it make sense to put it in Handouts? Yet we DON'T need the actual Handouts posts scattered among dozens of "thank you" and "what a great handout" comments.

Sigh. What to do. It's pretty confusing. But I can't think of any system that would work any better than WC. Nature of the beast, with 1000-plus actively taking the class - and this (people posting on WC) is only a "small" portion!

And since F&W is sponsoring the class, well, that is pretty much the deciding factor, eh?

Tresgatos
03-13-2011, 11:57 PM
I love the fact that Johannes does lots of repeating - I tend to be somewhat slower than the average bear when learning so this type of teaching is very important for me. I am very grateful that Johannes decided to teach this class and I got to participate in this training class even though I did miss some of the beginning classes. I actually think I now understand what Johannes is talking about after seeing today's demonstration. I'm eager to see the 10 photos so I can chose one to start.

Thanks again Johannes.

Barbara

northbank
03-14-2011, 01:01 AM
Happy, happy happy....don't change a thing. Yes, it takes some effort to learn how to get around here, but it's Darn well worth it. Johannes is looking at the work, asking the questions and weighing when it's time to move on to the next concept......equal opportunity......no student left behind. I think he's doing a brilliant job herding cats from kindergarten to college and feeding something to each of them.

oils4me
03-14-2011, 10:17 AM
I agree that there is a lot of information to sort through, but it's not Johannes's fault that people don't follow instructions and post everywhere, yes it makes it hard for us to find the good stuff but come on...how is that Johannes's fault?

How can we ask him to give more than he is already giving. He is a very humble and generous teacher, and an awesome artist. We are learning from one of the best and getting the information free and freely and we are complaining because we have to spend some of our time looking through posts and/or hearing some things more than once....REALLY??? really?

Colorix
03-14-2011, 11:02 AM
Hey, yesterday's chat was much more on topic than normally -- I was mostly quiet and behaved! ;-)

Why would people search for stuff, when it is so much easier to ask? :-) Then others sift through the mass of posts for it, and post links to it for the easily clickable convenience of the one who asked. Seriously, there is a feature called "search this forum" in the blue bar, which makes it easier. "Forum Tools" is great. It'd be considerate to search first, and ask if a search doesn't bring up the desired post.

Yeah, why isn't a free online course tailormade to fit my needs? What, are you having different needs? Well, I guess there needs to be 2 tailormade free courses given by J, then. What, are there more than 3000 registered ppl? The self evident solution would be to have J give 3000+ tailormade... :-D

Or, I accept that it is what it is. I'm *very* grateful for what it is! Repetition is the mother etc. I often discover that I do understand a concept well enough intellectually, but when I paint, the brain goes on automatic and I do what I've always done. Or, I may be able to actually finish J's sentences for him -- and when I hear it the 173rd time, something connects, and I go 'wow, there was a deeper level to it'. That's wonderful to discover. Anything I can learn from anybody is precious. I've learned from my students, too.

Ruthie57
03-14-2011, 11:57 AM
I love Johannes' classes and am very grateful to be getting them free. If some repetition becomes boring to me I can go make a cup of tea! The nuts and bolts session wasn't that relevant to me because it was mainly about oils...but I'm not complaining! I'm just one of a large number of students.

As far as the site goes it can be a drag opening up a thread to find irrelevant posts there but, again, that doesn't take up too much of my painting time!

And I really like the critique thread AND the critiques on line. Of course we're all most interested in critique of our own paintings but we can learn so much from all the critiques. The ones in the webinar (mainly the December ones) were very comprehensive and visual as well as verbal, thanks to Johannes' use of photoshop to illustrate his points. The thread critiques tend to be much more concise but stiill useful.

I'm really looking forward to the photos Jo will be posting so I can tackle some of these.....NONE of my own photos being any good at all, lol. If lots of people take this up there is no way Jo will be able to address each one in the webinar but, hopefully, he'll find time to address them in the thread.

Aren't we LUCKY!!!

sherrysherman
03-14-2011, 12:05 PM
Hey, yesterday's chat was much more on topic than normally -- I was mostly quiet and behaved! ;-)
LOL! Define "mostly." (I was VERY good. Mainly because I was at a friend's house watching and she wanted full screen, so no chat except before class and at break.)

Why would people search for stuff, when it is so much easier to ask? :-) Then others sift through the mass of posts for it, and post links to it for the easily clickable convenience of the one who asked. Seriously, there is a feature called "search this forum" in the blue bar, which makes it easier. "Forum Tools" is great. It'd be considerate to search first, and ask if a search doesn't bring up the desired post.
That would be nice. I have spent countless hours on this forum (and the one for the December classes - I missed ALL the classes but got so much from reading all the WC threads, and Robert's notes of course. It was worth it to me.) otoh, if you're new to the forum, have a FT job, a family, are trying to paint... you'd probably be tempted to save time by asking. And how many are simply reading, then not asking, so we don't even know they're around.

Yeah, why isn't a free online course tailormade to fit my needs? What, are you having different needs? Well, I guess there needs to be 2 tailormade free courses given by J, then. What, are there more than 3000 registered ppl? The self evident solution would be to have J give 3000+ tailormade... :-D
LOL. Yeah. Why not? :rolleyes:

You know, no one tailormade a course for me when there were only 9 in the class. (Dang.) I would not expect it now, and don't think anyone here is. I am guessing that people are just either making suggestions or wondering if others share viewpoints. And altho J knows the material and how to teach it, the technical aspects of working with 1000s of students online is new. He is designing as he goes. Maybe some ideas will prove useful.

Or, I accept that it is what it is. I'm *very* grateful for what it is! Repetition is the mother etc. I often discover that I do understand a concept well enough intellectually, but when I paint, the brain goes on automatic and I do what I've always done. Or, I may be able to actually finish J's sentences for him -- and when I hear it the 173rd time, something connects, and I go 'wow, there was a deeper level to it'. That's wonderful to discover. Anything I can learn from anybody is precious. I've learned from my students, too.
My guess is that of the 3000+ that have registered, many have chosen not to continue. The style, time requirements, dependence on WC, etc is NOT their cup of tea. They have handled it in the way that works for them - walking away. For me, what I'm getting is worth every minute. That doesn't mean every moment is perfect for me. But you know what? I'm fine with J's choices. This is the most extraordinary opportunity I have experienced in my art life. Even if I weren't improving my paintings from the start, just being able to SEE what's working or WHY something's not working-- oh gosh, it's astounding.

Colorix
03-14-2011, 02:05 PM
Sherry, "mostly" equals about 5% of normal chatter quota... :-)

Sorry if I was too ironic (am in a goofy mood today).

sherrysherman
03-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Sherry, "mostly" equals about 5% of normal chatter quota... :-)
You cut your chatter down by 95%? That's a major Wow. (Or do you mean you cut it by 5%?) :)

Sorry if I was too ironic (am in a goofy mood today).
No, you weren't too ironic.

It's about acceptance and appreciation -- and at the same time, honoring one's own viewpoint, perceptions and feelings. They conflict sometimes. So it gets down to balance. Recognition of differences among us all, even within each one of us. No ONE view is right, yet every one is "right." :)

Hehe. That may be way too zen. :wink2:

kittierue
03-14-2011, 02:45 PM
Sherry, Charlie, Ruthie, Linda and Northbank: Yes, yes, and more yes! You guys read my mind, and then wrote my thoughts exactly as I would if I were coherent.

Herding cats!!!! That's funny and so apropos. I have seen a HUGE improvement in my painting. What is so serendipitous for me is that I'm in a weekly landscape class where I get to practice the weekend's knowledge. The teacher is a young Spaniard, and he's tracking right along with the concepts J is passing on. Talk about making a leap of improvement. Sometime I'll post a painting from November against the one I just completed. Wow. From moron to average in 3 months!!!!

TerryKrysak
03-14-2011, 07:58 PM
I spent 3 years (1971-1974) at the Alberta College of Art & Design that cost a small fortune then, and have learned more about painting in these classes than I learned in art school, and this is costing nothing but time spent watching the classes.

I majored in Pottery, and we only took painting in first year. But we had two full day painting classes each week, and trust me they never talked about many of the things Johannes is teaching us. My entire focus has shifted in a very positive way because of these classes, and I know I will become a much better painter because of his teaching.

I don't mind the repetition at all, it is a sure fire way to really embed the information in the brain I think.

caemin
03-14-2011, 09:29 PM
I agree that there is a lot of information to sort through, but it's not Johannes's fault that people don't follow instructions and post everywhere, yes it makes it hard for us to find the good stuff but come on...how is that Johannes's fault? Where did anyone say any of the issues with WC were Jo's fault?

How can we ask him to give more than he is already giving. He is a very humble and generous teacher, and an awesome artist. We are learning from one of the best and getting the information free and freely and we are complaining because we have to spend some of our time looking through posts and/or hearing some things more than once....REALLY??? really?
I don't see where anyone was asking for Jo to do more or that we aren't grateful for what he's doing. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in how WC works or in how to navigate and find things more easily here. If you don't agree, that's fine. As I said previously, there are as many points of view as there are people in the class and they are all valid. I agree with Sherry...

It's about acceptance and appreciation -- and at the same time, honoring one's own viewpoint, perceptions and feelings. They conflict sometimes. So it gets down to balance. Recognition of differences among us all, even within each one of us. No ONE view is right, yet every one is "right." :)

Johannes Instructor
03-14-2011, 11:11 PM
I will weigh in on the demos which I love and find the most valuable of Johaness's many effective instructional strategies. However, for technology newbies like myself, the challenges of keeping pace are many. I value colleagial sharing but today I was frustrated by the quickly flowing chat stream which was filled with so much non- related filler relating to geography, wine, etc., etc. I found it very hard to follow the art related questions and answers which are usually common concerns shared by many viewers. Several times I would be following something, only to have it interrupted by something entirely unrelated, and the discussion I had been following got eaten up by cyberspace. I could not return to it for follow through. I feel like I'm in a studio, trying to learn from a master, while being continuously distracted by the loudchatter of over 1000 students all talking at once. I know I can deal with it by turning off the chat, focussing on Johannes, and listening to his responses to questions that Kenneth pulls from the chat. While that would deprive me of the sharing experience and the ability to ask questions, it is the action I will take if the chat continues to go off on so many tangents. I have attended every session to date, and today was the first time I became so frustrated. The Webinar is a wonderful learning experience, Johannes is an extroadinary instructor and I plan to remain a faithful follower! Thanks for listening!

Betty

Betty
If you click on the bottom right you can make the video full screen and the chat window will disappear.

nana b
03-15-2011, 12:54 AM
I agree that there is a lot of information to sort through, but it's not Johannes's fault that people don't follow instructions and post everywhere, yes it makes it hard for us to find the good stuff but come on...how is that Johannes's fault?

How can we ask him to give more than he is already giving. He is a very humble and generous teacher, and an awesome artist. We are learning from one of the best and getting the information free and freely and we are complaining because we have to spend some of our time looking through posts and/or hearing some things more than once....REALLY??? really?

Johannes's fault? Good grief. And I think I made it clear that we do need things repeated over and over (me especially) to get it thru our thick heads.... but go back and read what I said exactly and think in terms that things can always be improved on and ideas are called "feedback" in the business world.

Suggestions are usually welcome, especially with something as new as this new venture between WC and Johannes and 3000 students. To suggest that anyone is finding fault with the generous people at WC or Johannes is totally speaking another language than I am.

This is all a win-win situation. and it's all good for Wet Canvas, F&W, Johannes and most of all.....the artist that are participating in this great opportunity:thumbsup: So...please don't make well meant suggestions into something that makes any of us look unappreciating. The fine tuning of this venture probably will be an ongoing journey that will just keep improving for all of us. I plan on staying with it no matter what the complications are.

Look how the hardworking moderators and other WC staff have already streamlined and coordinated with swift efficiency the great information section that was devised when they were bombarded with when Johannes came on the scene and created all the excitment in us hungry artist! What an excitement he has created!
And Johannes has a good heart to share all this with us. I truely believe he is passionate about teaching or he wouldn't be coming on early and staying late on Sat and Sun classes. He's got to be a busy man.

So thanks Johannes, thank you WC and thank you F&W...Now let's have a group hug:grouphug:

Johannes Instructor
03-15-2011, 08:33 AM
Johannes's fault? Good grief. And I think I made it clear that we do need things repeated over and over (me especially) to get it thru our thick heads.... but go back and read what I said exactly and think in terms that things can always be improved on and ideas are called "feedback" in the business world.

Suggestions are usually welcome, especially with something as new as this new venture between WC and Johannes and 3000 students. To suggest that anyone is finding fault with the generous people at WC or Johannes is totally speaking another language than I am.

This is all a win-win situation. and it's all good for Wet Canvas, F&W, Johannes and most of all.....the artist that are participating in this great opportunity:thumbsup: So...please don't make well meant suggestions into something that makes any of us look unappreciating. The fine tuning of this venture probably will be an ongoing journey that will just keep improving for all of us. I plan on staying with it no matter what the complications are.

Look how the hardworking moderators and other WC staff have already streamlined and coordinated with swift efficiency the great information section that was devised when they were bombarded with when Johannes came on the scene and created all the excitment in us hungry artist! What an excitement he has created!
And Johannes has a good heart to share all this with us. I truely believe he is passionate about teaching or he wouldn't be coming on early and staying late on Sat and Sun classes. He's got to be a busy man.

So thanks Johannes, thank you WC and thank you F&W...Now let's have a group hug:grouphug:
I will be the first one in line to hug you all. So far 3223 people are registered for the classes. How long will it take me to hug you all?

Colorix
03-15-2011, 09:26 AM
Suggestions on how to organize the site is best directed at admin. PM them, as it is not likely they'll see it here, or respond here.

caemin
03-15-2011, 10:20 AM
I will be the first one in line to hug you all. So far 3223 people are registered for the classes. How long will it take me to hug you all?
:clap::clap::clap:

Now the question is whether the technology can support that many people!

nana b
03-15-2011, 12:01 PM
I will be the first one in line to hug you all. So far 3223 people are registered for the classes. How long will it take me to hug you all?

Let's see.....5 into 3223=644.6 of these :grouphug:!!

:D

Amandine
03-15-2011, 12:58 PM
My guess is that of the 3000+ that have registered, many have chosen not to continue. The style, time requirements, dependence on WC, etc is NOT their cup of tea. They have handled it in the way that works for them - walking away. For me, what I'm getting is worth every minute. That doesn't mean every moment is perfect for me. But you know what? I'm fine with J's choices. This is the most extraordinary opportunity I have experienced in my art life. Even if I weren't improving my paintings from the start, just being able to SEE what's working or WHY something's not working-- oh gosh, it's astounding.

Exactly what I think. Taking this course with Johannes is priceless. :thumbsup: I've learned so much so far. I knew it was wrong to just copy photos but didn't know exactly what to check and how to correct it. All the information we get is amazing. I will never paint again like I used to. It's a wonderful challenge for the learning painter I am.
Amandine

oils4me
03-15-2011, 01:14 PM
Johannes's fault? Good grief. And I think I made it clear that we do need things repeated over and over (me especially) to get it thru our thick heads.... but go back and read what I said exactly and think in terms that things can always be improved on and ideas are called "feedback" in the business world.

Suggestions are usually welcome, especially with something as new as this new venture between WC and Johannes and 3000 students. To suggest that anyone is finding fault with the generous people at WC or Johannes is totally speaking another language than I am.

This is all a win-win situation. and it's all good for Wet Canvas, F&W, Johannes and most of all.....the artist that are participating in this great opportunity:thumbsup: So...please don't make well meant suggestions into something that makes any of us look unappreciating. The fine tuning of this venture probably will be an ongoing journey that will just keep improving for all of us. I plan on staying with it no matter what the complications are.

Look how the hardworking moderators and other WC staff have already streamlined and coordinated with swift efficiency the great information section that was devised when they were bombarded with when Johannes came on the scene and created all the excitment in us hungry artist! What an excitement he has created!
And Johannes has a good heart to share all this with us. I truely believe he is passionate about teaching or he wouldn't be coming on early and staying late on Sat and Sun classes. He's got to be a busy man.

So thanks Johannes, thank you WC and thank you F&W...Now let's have a group hug:grouphug:


Can I get in on that group hug? Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm a lover not a fighter.

I've read some of the rude comments on the chat, which I was not able to use either to ask questions, and not only that chat but the one that Kenneth responds to on the gotomeeting, and now that I spend my weekends with Johannes ;) he is beginning to feel like a member of my family, so maybe I got a little sensitive and over reacted or directed it at the wrong people...and for that I'm sorry.

I agree that we have to be tolerant of others, and there are many ways of doing things, and I have a lot of respect for what he does and how he does it...and yes, there are always ways to improve things...and we all can learn from one another...:)

:grouphug: all around!!

Johannes Instructor
03-15-2011, 01:47 PM
Can I get in on that group hug? Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm a lover not a fighter.

I've read some of the rude comments on the chat, which I was not able to use either to ask questions, and not only that chat but the one that Kenneth responds to on the gotomeeting, and now that I spend my weekends with Johannes ;) he is beginning to feel like a member of my family, so maybe I got a little sensitive and over reacted or directed it at the wrong people...and for that I'm sorry.

I agree that we have to be tolerant of others, and there are many ways of doing things, and I have a lot of respect for what he does and how he does it...and yes, there are always ways to improve things...and we all can learn from one another...:)

:grouphug: all around!!

You are members of my family.

Nahant
03-15-2011, 04:39 PM
Hugs are good...thank you Phyllis! Any my sincere apologies to any I may have offended with my testy remarks. After all, we all want the same thing...as much Knowlege as possible from our wonderfully gifted artist/instructor/friend...Johannes :clap: .

Peace, love and hugs to All! :grouphug:

Betty

carol_lee
03-16-2011, 12:36 AM
We all appreciate the effort and work that goes into a huge project like this...and we all want to post and find quickly the correct thread. I have one suggestion:
If someone mistakenly posts in the threads that are specific to Johannes & Robert... instead of adding another post and adding to the mess, you can direct them through PM... that will help keep those two threads clean and easy to navigate. You can find the PM on the top right under you Welcome name.....

Marianne Shields
03-17-2011, 09:29 AM
Question; Is the new series a repeat on the last ones?...(which were very good) I would really like to know!:wave:

Johannes Instructor
03-17-2011, 09:30 AM
I don't understand your question. The course I am giving until April 17 is not a repeat from last year's webinars.

Marianne Shields
03-17-2011, 01:44 PM
I was under the impression that lasat SUNDAY'S PRESENTATION was the final one....which incindentally did not get.

Johannes Instructor
03-17-2011, 07:10 PM
I was under the impression that lasat SUNDAY'S PRESENTATION was the final one....which incindentally did not get.
When you registered for the classes you got an email that mentioned the last day of class.