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Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 04:29 PM
Let's start typing in here now for the week until March 6

Amandine
02-28-2011, 06:56 PM
I'm planning a landscape that would include, going front to back (ha ha, I remember), hay bales and dry ochre grass, then trees, then parts of mountains and finally, the sky with clouds. Referring to your last handout, I notice sky, clouds and dry ochre grass are all mid-light value which means I would get the same value in the front and in the back of the landscape.
My question is : should I darken the hay bales and grass or lighten it ; or darken the sky ? but the cloud would still be light. Well, I'm thinking to darken the front so I would get mid-value then, mid-dark and finally mid-light. Am I thinking the right way ?
Thanks for your help.
Amandine

winecountry
02-28-2011, 07:35 PM
I thought some might find this quote from a book I mentioned earlier Art and Vision: the Biology of Seeing of interest. It explains some of what Johannes was trying to get across in the eye-opening class yesterday.....a real gem that is changing everything in my landscape work.....This gives an expansion on some of what he said and explains why it might be so hard to do. She uses the word luminance for what we call value....I like her word, it's more descriptive and visual.

Luminance notes from Art and Vision: the Biology of Seeing
on values and mass planning, which IMO is the most valuable help to painting an artist could have.

QUOTE
Page 109
Because depth is processed by the colorblind Where system [the rods]
Luminance contrast alone is enough to give a vivid sensation of three-dimensionality…..
(Note…Remember the other system, the cones, sees color, which she calls the What system, in case you missed my earlier post)

Page 110
To use shading effectively artists have to surmount two further challenges. First they must learn to evaluate luminance independent of color. As discussed earlier, the part of the visual system that determines 3-D shape, depth, and overall spatial organization—the Where system – is sensitive to luminance but not to color . But it is impossible to consciously see only the luminance version of a scene or painting; we cannot simply opt to see with only that part of the visual system( just try to see the world in black and white) so it is indeed a talent to be able to judge luminance accurately across colors.
It is particularly difficult to distinguish salience, or conspicuousness from value. Colors that are rare in a scene, say a red flower on a brown forest floor, can seem much brighter than they actually are.
/QUOTE (Underlining is my emphasis….)

So how many of us have made that red barn, or shirt or flower too bright in a painting? ☺

Bottom line anything you can do to aid you to see value only, ie squint, a red filter, greyscale in PS…will help train us to get the value/luminance barrier overcome, just remember you are overcoming a physical part of how we see, not just the idea, but he actual processing in our brains.

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 08:30 PM
I'm planning a landscape that would include, going front to back (ha ha, I remember), hay bales and dry ochre grass, then trees, then parts of mountains and finally, the sky with clouds. Referring to your last handout, I notice sky, clouds and dry ochre grass are all mid-light value which means I would get the same value in the front and in the back of the landscape.
My question is : should I darken the hay bales and grass or lighten it ; or darken the sky ? but the cloud would still be light. Well, I'm thinking to darken the front so I would get mid-value then, mid-dark and finally mid-light. Am I thinking the right way ?
Thanks for your help.
Amandine

You are asking the right questions. i was not able to complete the whole mass planning last Sunday. it will take more hours to get this across. if you want to send me your photo i will do a thumnail sketch of it so you can see these principles apply.

mtnrunner
03-01-2011, 02:56 AM
a little random, but here's a short youtube clip from the movie Art School Confidential. I love the know it all who spouts all the typical art language...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFa4ySkv9Dg&NR=1

Aren't we glad that Johannes is more down to earth than that?
My college degree was in education, and biology was my primary field, but I had to choose a second, so I chose "art". That was a joke at my college, but anyway, I remember a clay class I took. I wanted to do representational sculpture.. and did some, if I do say so, pretty good horse pieces. (hey, it was Texas, what can I say?) The instructor only liked modern, abstract work.
She refused to fire my pieces. But she ranted and raved over the work of another student, who took slabs of clay and rolled them up into a tube and made funny faces on them like little gnomes.

Reading up on the left brain/right brain discussion, I find it interesting that
when I am really absorbed in the painting process that a couple of things happen.
1. I totally lose track of time.. hours can go by and I might think it has been only a short time.
2. I tend to stop thinking in "words".. I don't talk to myself.. seems like the verbal, left brained part of me takes a total back seat.
3. and this one is hard to describe.. maybe you've experienced this too.. I begin "feeling" things with my eyes.. I sense the shape, the roundness or dimension of it.. it is as if I am sculpting with the paintbrush a real object.
i know I'm not explaining this well, but it is an amazing experience when it happens... it is sort of like Alice in Wonderland.. I enter the world of that painting and walk around in there. Mentally, I am in another place, and I am sensing the objects I am painting as clearly as if I were holding or touching them. Does this happen to you guys too?

Pinklady219
03-01-2011, 09:02 AM
Reading up on the left brain/right brain discussion, I find it interesting that
when I am really absorbed in the painting process that a couple of things happen.
1. I totally lose track of time.. hours can go by and I might think it has been only a short time.
2. I tend to stop thinking in "words".. I don't talk to myself.. seems like the verbal, left brained part of me takes a total back seat.
3. and this one is hard to describe.. maybe you've experienced this too.. I begin "feeling" things with my eyes.. I sense the shape, the roundness or dimension of it.. it is as if I am sculpting with the paintbrush a real object.
i know I'm not explaining this well, but it is an amazing experience when it happens... it is sort of like Alice in Wonderland.. I enter the world of that painting and walk around in there. Mentally, I am in another place, and I am sensing the objects I am painting as clearly as if I were holding or touching them. Does this happen to you guys too?

Definitely :clap: !!! I know exactly what you mean mtrunner. Thanks for expressing that artsy place I love to visit. Another thing happens to me also--my right arm feels like it has the painting stuck in it and can't wait to get out. It is an urgency that only goes away once I've visited the place you explained and the painting is nearly done. Maybe it is GETTING HIGH ON ART :D . I need to be there more often. I'm stuck in a void right now and hoping these classes will kick me back out. Hey, I think it is beginning to work. Thanks again, Carol

KarenB
03-01-2011, 09:19 AM
Endorphins, people! The neurotransmitter pleasure principle. :wink2: For me, not so far with pastels, but in the past, often during the process of melting glass and playing with fire.

rugman
03-01-2011, 09:26 AM
a little random, but here's a short youtube clip from the movie Art School Confidential. I love the know it all who spouts all the typical art language...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFa4ySkv9Dg&NR=1

Aren't we glad that Johannes is more down to earth than that?
My college degree was in education, and biology was my primary field, but I had to choose a second, so I chose "art". That was a joke at my college, but anyway, I remember a clay class I took. I wanted to do representational sculpture.. and did some, if I do say so, pretty good horse pieces. (hey, it was Texas, what can I say?) The instructor only liked modern, abstract work.
She refused to fire my pieces. But she ranted and raved over the work of another student, who took slabs of clay and rolled them up into a tube and made funny faces on them like little gnomes.

Reading up on the left brain/right brain discussion, I find it interesting that
when I am really absorbed in the painting process that a couple of things happen.
1. I totally lose track of time.. hours can go by and I might think it has been only a short time.
2. I tend to stop thinking in "words".. I don't talk to myself.. seems like the verbal, left brained part of me takes a total back seat.
3. and this one is hard to describe.. maybe you've experienced this too.. I begin "feeling" things with my eyes.. I sense the shape, the roundness or dimension of it.. it is as if I am sculpting with the paintbrush a real object.
i know I'm not explaining this well, but it is an amazing experience when it happens... it is sort of like Alice in Wonderland.. I enter the world of that painting and walk around in there. Mentally, I am in another place, and I am sensing the objects I am painting as clearly as if I were holding or touching them. Does this happen to you guys too?

I've never took any art classes in college. I was in the Ag college. Funny utube clip. I would not be able to stand the instructor in the video:), due to conflict of personalities! Previously in these classes we had some talk about representation vs. abstract. Representational will always win out in the long run because humans recognize beauty- whether it is a landscape painting or horse sculpture.

During the webinars I am in my right brain, therefore I have a difficult time writting my notes- they are very hard to read. I've also heard its best to listen to music that has no words when painting; maybe because it helps the right brain?

Johannes Instructor
03-01-2011, 09:35 AM
I've never took any art classes in college. I was in the Ag college. Funny utube clip. I would not be able to stand the instructor in the video:), due to conflict of personalities! Previously in these classes we had some talk about representation vs. abstract. Representational will always win out in the long run because humans recognize beauty- whether it is a landscape painting or horse sculpture.

During the webinars I am in my right brain, therefore I have a difficult time writting my notes- they are very hard to read. I've also heard its best to listen to music that has no words when painting; maybe because it helps the right brain?
Your comment about having a difficulty taking notes has redeemed me from the hestitation I go thru during the web classes. LOL . I have heard many times that artists listen to classical or instrumental music. I know for sure Jim Wilcox does.

IrmaH322
03-01-2011, 09:50 AM
Mtnrunner, it happens to me too. I always lose track of time when painting, but now something new is happening. I am a very realistic painter and was not very satisfied with the result of all that realism in landscapes. When I discovered Johannes on December it was a new revelation to me. I have been following the contour of shapes in Johannes, C. Aspevig and J. Wilcox paintings with the mouse trying to get used to those shapes. Now I am working in my own landscape and realized that when I was doing it I forgot I was dealing with trees, shrubs, mountains, etc It was a pure joy letting my hand slide around those shapes.
I remember about 15 years ago, I studied Betty Edwards " Drawing with the right side of the brain" and in some of the excersises you have to draw looking at it upside down. My drawings were perfect, but when I tried to do it looking at it normal, my drawing was not good at all. At this point in my life Johannes makes me feel like a different and better artist and I am grateful for that, it makes me feel good. Even Kenneth with his presentation made a change, now I feel more connected when I look at those masters painted that I admired so much. Now there is a lot of work ahead trying to let my artist brain take over. Sorry about the lenght of this post. Irma

mtnrunner
03-01-2011, 09:55 AM
This must be my week for sharing links.. but here is a really, really cool drawing
clip - a woman, from the inside out....
I think ya'll will like this!
http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i=003702

sherrysherman
03-01-2011, 12:12 PM
This must be my week for sharing links.. but here is a really, really cool drawing
clip - a woman, from the inside out....
I think ya'll will like this!
http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i=003702

Oh my gosh, that was amazing! Thanks for the link. :)

robertsloan2
03-01-2011, 05:20 PM
That's a fun drawing link! I liked the levels of transformation, it was very cool. Amused by the clip from Art School Confidential too, sounds like some art classes I had in college. Agree - Johannes is much more down to earth!

I went to the doctor this morning and wound up analyzing a painting in the waiting room. I'd seen it before, thought it was pretty but somehow a little off. I didn't know why. Today it was cool figuring out exactly why it bugged me - there was a long, long list of things. Same with the one in the waiting room though that one was better - the foreground was good, the problems were all in the deep distance.

I think all of this is finally sinking in!

pastelpainter62
03-01-2011, 06:25 PM
???? Tech question re: Adobe Elements
Can anyone help, please? Just bought Adobe Elements - am trying to find the geometrical shapes so I can turn in the homework. Steep learning curve for Elements at the moment!

Thanks so much,
BB

sherrysherman
03-01-2011, 07:02 PM
???? Tech question re: Adobe Elements
Can anyone help, please? Just bought Adobe Elements - am trying to find the geometrical shapes so I can turn in the homework. Steep learning curve for Elements at the moment!

Thanks so much,
BB

My Elements is a prior version, so yours may not match this exactly, but I'm hoping it's close enough.

There's a tool called "Custom Shape Tool" that I used. On mine, it's about 3 up from the bottom on the list of tools. By clicking and holding that one, it gave me several choices, including one for an Ellipse tool that I used to create the egg. I used the paint bucket to fill it in with black paint.

For the triangle, I needed to choose "Custom Shape Tool," then go to the Tool Options bar. A little ways in on that bar was the word "Shape" followed by a drop-down menu. By clicking on that, I saw the default array of shapes, which did NOT include a triangle. But near the top right of that default grid was a little arrow pointing to the right. By clicking on that I got a new menu of a lot of categories of shapes. I chose the category "Shapes." One of the options in the grid that opened was a triangle. I used that tool to create a long narrow triangle and used the paint bucket to fill it in.

Then I used the paint brush tool with white paint to carve in the tree. The size of paint brush depends on the size of your egg and triangle; I actually used a couple different sizes, depending on what size cut-in I wanted.

Hope that helps.

sue burke
03-01-2011, 07:14 PM
Anyone wanting an excellent free paint program should try TwistedBrush. I tried the free version and liked it so much I bought the pro version--but the free version has everything you need. It came in handy for the negative space exercises!!!

chewie
03-01-2011, 07:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Qwp2GdB1M

the spinning woman was a real fun one, here's another thing that is similar.

susanc
03-01-2011, 07:47 PM
A public domain book about trees is available online:
The Artistic Anatomy of Trees (http://www.archive.org/details/artisticanatomyo00cole) by Rex Vicat Cole

Do you think it's still a good source or too old? Thanks--

pastelpainter62
03-01-2011, 07:58 PM
Thank you so much, Sherrie. I'll give it a try and, perhaps will be able to post!

You're a peach. :clap:

BB Hahn
Who roosts in pinyon-juniper-grasslands south of Pueblo, CO

Amandine
03-01-2011, 08:36 PM
You are asking the right questions. i was not able to complete the whole mass planning last Sunday. it will take more hours to get this across. if you want to send me your photo i will do a thumnail sketch of it so you can see these principles apply.

Thank you so much for your offer. I feel a bit intimidated by it but, for sure, I won't refuse it. I'm not posting only one photo. After your first lessons, I realize my photos are not that good. The first photo is the basic one. I was attracted by all those curves on the ground. I've already lightened the dark trees.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2011/661062-ballots_sur_terrain.jpg

I'm also thinking of adding this trio of hay bales somewhere in the empty space on the right :
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2011/661062-3_ballots.jpg

And the last photo is the mountains reference. Of course, I wouldn't use all of it, only the summit and a summit corrected for a more melodic line.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2011/661062-montagnes.jpg

Again, Johannes, thank you so much for all the incredible instruction you're giving us.
Amandine
P.S. : you're allowed to use these photos without any restriction.

Johannes Instructor
03-02-2011, 10:15 AM
Thank you so much for your offer. I feel a bit intimidated by it but, for sure, I won't refuse it. I'm not posting only one photo. After your first lessons, I realize my photos are not that good. The first photo is the basic one. I was attracted by all those curves on the ground. I've already lightened the dark trees.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2011/661062-ballots_sur_terrain.jpg

I'm also thinking of adding this trio of hay bales somewhere in the empty space on the right :


And the last photo is the mountains reference. Of course, I wouldn't use all of it, only the summit and a summit corrected for a more melodic line.


Again, Johannes, thank you so much for all the incredible instruction you're giving us.
Amandine
P.S. : you're allowed to use these photos without any restriction.
I agree with you about the grass direction in your photo. You can capitalize on that. What needs to be changed is that straight line where the grass meets the trees. Remember I taught you to make some trees take a step forward so you end up with a melodic line.

Johannes Instructor
03-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Mtnrunner, it happens to me too. I always lose track of time when painting, but now something new is happening. I am a very realistic painter and was not very satisfied with the result of all that realism in landscapes. When I discovered Johannes on December it was a new revelation to me. I have been following the contour of shapes in Johannes, C. Aspevig and J. Wilcox paintings with the mouse trying to get used to those shapes. Now I am working in my own landscape and realized that when I was doing it I forgot I was dealing with trees, shrubs, mountains, etc It was a pure joy letting my hand slide around those shapes.
I remember about 15 years ago, I studied Betty Edwards " Drawing with the right side of the brain" and in some of the excersises you have to draw looking at it upside down. My drawings were perfect, but when I tried to do it looking at it normal, my drawing was not good at all. At this point in my life Johannes makes me feel like a different and better artist and I am grateful for that, it makes me feel good. Even Kenneth with his presentation made a change, now I feel more connected when I look at those masters painted that I admired so much. Now there is a lot of work ahead trying to let my artist brain take over. Sorry about the lenght of this post. Irma
What a lovely message while I zipped my coffee this morning. You made my day.

mcbru
03-02-2011, 10:45 AM
What a lovely message while I zipped my coffee this morning. You made my day.

Irma is right Johannes. I was walking with my eyes closed, you said take a peek, and what a discovery. You are changing lives, not just painting shapes. It's a whole new world, I really like what I see, it's amazing. How does one repay something like that?:clap:

Johannes Instructor
03-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Irma is right Johannes. I was walking with my eyes closed, you said take a peek, and what a discovery. You are changing lives, not just painting shapes. It's a whole new world, I really like what I see, it's amazing. How does one repay something like that?:clap:
What is true is that you will see nature from another point of view when you start to see from the artist's point of view. It's like you learn to pay attention to visual music which most people just take for granted. So wehn you see a wonderful melodic line or shape. it is like nature playing a harp for you.

robertsloan2
03-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Johannes, several times during class you've mentioned what happens in the brain when people hear music or see melodic lines and abstract shapes. Here's an article on the chemistry of music pleasure from Discovery News: http://news.discovery.com/human/music-dopamine-happiness-brain-110110.html It's pretty cool.

I think that you're spot on about it too. Two things happen with representational art. The subject evokes emotion because of what it is. I love cats, so even a badly composed image of a cat will get some positive reaction from me. At the same time, a beautiful painting of something I don't like will also move me. A grim industrial scene in a good painting will move me and set off associations about poverty and bad working conditions. I'll get passionate about it.

If I just drove past an industrial building I might look away from it because it's an ugly building. Flat, dull, featureless and uninteresting compared to the fields and trees across the street from it.

Many of these golden nuggets remind me of some writing tricks I learned. Varying sentence length to keep a reader interested. Pacing a story so that it's not all intense peak scenes but has some rests and intimate moments that are still interesting. Tagging dialogue just enough that the reader can keep track of who said what without turning that into a boring rhythm.

The story is the same whether it's in its rough unedited form or polished into something that grabs attention. It's all in how it's presented.

In plein air the entire scene changes if I sit down or move one step to left or right. I'm going to place my chair carefully on Mary Beth's porch next time I'm over there to take full advantage of her zigzag deck path to the archway.
Then I'll choose my focal area and try to paint while looking just at the focal area, paint from the blur when I'm doing the other elements of the scene and see what I get.

Painting the way the eye sees is closer to a human experience and that's what'll recreate a human experience.

NeldaJansen
03-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Johannes;
Thanks for "setting us free" from the confusion of trying to squint and identify so many different values. THREE? Yeah, yeah, I can identify and handle three! I understand about also connecting dark values (CP value path) that can run nicely through the painting.

I will ask this question, and also figure that you'll be talking much more next week about the value masses. ?? Should we more or less "push" our landscape subjects into the three-large-mass system, for clarity???
I can identify three values, I can conjure up a connect the darks path, and I can mass shapes together, but I'm not sure yet about the three main value masses. It feels a little forced to me, but that may be becasue I'm not "getting it" yet.

Thanks ever so much for this vey worthwhile class. If I didn't already have both the books, I'd run right out and get them. Do you have more books to recommend?

Best,
Nelda Jansen

sue burke
03-02-2011, 01:28 PM
Wow! Johannes, I was looking through some photos yesterday and I came upon one that I always liked, but never painted--after your class, I could see right away that this one was worth painting, it had a good lead in, a great focal point, three planes, etc--the point is that I was up until four this morning painting and I've never had a painting work out so well. It's not quite done; but, as I was working on it, I was amazed that it seemed easier than usual--like everything just fell in place. Not to say that there aren't still challenges I have to work out; but, thank you!!!!

vapsman88
03-02-2011, 01:34 PM
a little random, but here's a short youtube clip from the movie Art School Confidential. I love the know it all who spouts all the typical art language...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFa4ySkv9Dg&NR=1


I had forgotten about that movie. I remember teachers in many art classes I have taken talking like the pretentious art student. I love the comment by the main character at the end of the clip:
"Are you kidding me?"

Also at "The Weekend at the Masters" event in Southern California last year artist Scott Burdick (whose work I admire so much) gave an impassioned talk to the attendees entitled "Banishment of Beauty". The talk was basically an indictment of the Progressive Modern Art Movement and was very interesting. The talk is available as a four part YouTube series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGX0_0VL06U

~John

Johannes Instructor
03-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Wow! Johannes, I was looking through some photos yesterday and I came upon one that I always liked, but never painted--after your class, I could see right away that this one was worth painting, it had a good lead in, a great focal point, three planes, etc--the point is that I was up until four this morning painting and I've never had a painting work out so well. It's not quite done; but, as I was working on it, I was amazed that it seemed easier than usual--like everything just fell in place. Not to say that there aren't still challenges I have to work out; but, thank you!!!!

Now you just made my second cup of coffee sweeter

Johannes Instructor
03-02-2011, 01:40 PM
Johannes;
Thanks for "setting us free" from the confusion of trying to squint and identify so many different values. THREE? Yeah, yeah, I can identify and handle three! I understand about also connecting dark values (CP value path) that can run nicely through the painting.

I will ask this question, and also figure that you'll be talking much more next week about the value masses. ?? Should we more or less "push" our landscape subjects into the three-large-mass system, for clarity???
I can identify three values, I can conjure up a connect the darks path, and I can mass shapes together, but I'm not sure yet about the three main value masses. It feels a little forced to me, but that may be becasue I'm not "getting it" yet.

Thanks ever so much for this vey worthwhile class. If I didn't already have both the books, I'd run right out and get them. Do you have more books to recommend?

Best,
Nelda Jansen

Last class was only an introduction. I realize there is confusion still with the mass planning. I promise all this will be cyrstal clear by this coming weekend. I also will be recommending some more books this weekend.

mtnrunner
03-03-2011, 09:37 AM
I had forgotten about that movie. I remember teachers in many art classes I have taken talking like the pretentious art student. I love the comment by the main character at the end of the clip:
"Are you kidding me?"

Also at "The Weekend at the Masters" event in Southern California last year artist Scott Burdick (whose work I admire so much) gave an impassioned talk to the attendees entitled "Banishment of Beauty". The talk was basically an indictment of the Progressive Modern Art Movement and was very interesting. The talk is available as a four part YouTube series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGX0_0VL06U

~John

John, I listened to that series from Scott Burdick last year and thought it was a very accurate statement of the "state of the arts" these days. Thought it was one of the best things I've seen in awhile....
I remember somewhere reading about a group of high school students who were taken to a museum.... all the details escape me, except that the writer of this article happened to catch two high school girls standing in front of a Bouguereau, transfixed. One of them finally commented, "It's like, beautiful."
Maybe that was from Scott's series, I don't know.. but that said it all to me.
We recognize beauty, and I think something in us longs for it.

BeeMcD
03-03-2011, 11:49 AM
Johannes,
I'm having trouble opening the class handouts from class 10. Would you be able to resend the email where you had the attachment to those notes.

susanc
03-03-2011, 12:27 PM
Johannes,
I'm having trouble opening the class handouts from class 10. Would you be able to resend the email where you had the attachment to those notes.
Hi--Scroll up near the top of this page and look on the left hand side where it says WetCanvas > Explore Subjects > Landscapes > Partner: WetCanvas Live!

Click on the words: Partner: WetCanvas Live!

You'll be taken to the index of all the threads related to Johannes' classes. Look for the one called, "Posted HANDOUTS for class attendees", and click on it. Handout 10 will probably be on page 2 of that thread.

Actually, here's the handout link itself:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872822

But be sure to click on the Partner: WetCanvas Live! link at the top left of this page anyway to make sure you're not missing out on anything! :)

sherrysherman
03-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Actually, here's the link itself:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872822

But be sure to click on the Partner: WetCanvas Live! link at the top left of this page anyway to make sure you're not missing out on anything! :)

As Susan said, that's the link, and Handout 10 is on page 2.

When I download it, it came across titled "attachment.php" - I don't know what ".php" is, but I needed simply to change that to ".pdf" to open it. Then it opened nicely in Adobe Reader.

vapsman88
03-03-2011, 04:23 PM
John, I listened to that series from Scott Burdick last year and thought it was a very accurate statement of the "state of the arts" these days. Thought it was one of the best things I've seen in awhile....
I remember somewhere reading about a group of high school students who were taken to a museum.... all the details escape me, except that the writer of this article happened to catch two high school girls standing in front of a Bouguereau, transfixed. One of them finally commented, "It's like, beautiful."
Maybe that was from Scott's series, I don't know.. but that said it all to me.
We recognize beauty, and I think something in us longs for it.

Thanks for the reply, Deb.

I remember seeing a Bouguereau painting about ten years ago (Young Girl & Eros) at the J. Paul Getty museum and was transfixed by it. computer reproductions do not do it justice, it must be seen in person to appreciate it. Apparently he fell out of favor with the art world in his later life by his staunch opposition to Impressionism. Only recently has his work been appreciated again.

Yes I think that comment you were referring to was from Scott's presentation.

~John

susanc
03-03-2011, 06:22 PM
A link to a Clyde Aspevig article in Southwest Art magazine, Oct 15th, 2010.

"In an excerpt from his new book, artist Clyde Aspevig reflects on nature, musicality & painting."
http://www.southwestart.com/featured/clyde-aspevig-visual-music

winecountry
03-03-2011, 07:35 PM
great link ....for free you can have all the written portion of his new book, and several of the best pics...I'm still glad I have it, got the hard cover....I think its a good investment as his other out of print books are $150 or more...

Davkin
03-03-2011, 08:02 PM
The lastest "Plein Air Painting" mag has articles on both Scott Christensen and Clyde Aspevig. I've only skimmed them so far but looks like the Aspevig article is mostly similar in style to the article in the Southwest Art mag but the Christensen article as a step by step demo.

David

Johannes Instructor
03-03-2011, 08:12 PM
The lastest "Plein Air Painting" mag has articles on both Scott Christensen and Clyde Aspevig. I've only skimmed them so far but looks like the Aspevig article is mostly similar in style to the article in the Southwest Art mag but the Christensen article as a step by step demo.

David
Could you be more specific what issues and what month. There are several companies that print the plein air mag. Which one are you specifically referring to?

pat-trew
03-03-2011, 08:37 PM
Irma is right Johannes. I was walking with my eyes closed, you said take a peek, and what a discovery. You are changing lives, not just painting shapes. It's a whole new world, I really like what I see, it's amazing. How does one repay something like that?:clap:
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH IRMA. THIS WHOLE EXPERIANCE WITH THIS WEBINAR AND JOHANNES IS WITHOUT WORDS. PAT T,

Johannes Instructor
03-03-2011, 09:07 PM
Johannes,
I'm having trouble opening the class handouts from class 10. Would you be able to resend the email where you had the attachment to those notes.
Right click on the file and select, "save target as"

Davkin
03-03-2011, 09:46 PM
Could you be more specific what issues and what month. There are several companies that print the plein air mag. Which one are you specifically referring to?

Oh, I'm only aware of one, sorry. It's the one by American Artist, Spring 2011, on the Barnes and Noble shelves now.

David

Moyer
03-04-2011, 08:46 AM
Johannes,are you planning to do a short tutorial on brushwork to define oblects in sapce, grass oval;tre es, rocls etc.???????

susanc
03-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Anyone looking for a free, but, excellent paint program should try TwistedBrush. I have the pro version that I love; but, the free version really good. It's easy to use too.
Sue, Looks like a good suggestion. Maybe you could share this again in the Free image manipulation and GIF software! (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203090) thread, too?
Here's an article on the chemistry of music pleasure from Discovery News: http://news.discovery.com/human/music-dopamine-happiness-brain-110110.html It's pretty cool.
Robert, that was amazing. Last time I read (it's been a while!), they felt that the brain released endorphins with survival-related activities only. This study now goes beyond that, so I enjoyed it. (Undoubtedly, endorphine-induced! :) )
great link ....for free you can have all the written portion of his new book, and several of the best pics...I'm still glad I have it, got the hard cover....I think its a good investment as his other out of print books are $150 or more...
Colleen, It's the whole written portion? That's quite the excerpt! I've ordered the hard cover, too. Probably the only "Aspevig" I'll ever be able to own! :)
Oh, I'm only aware of one, sorry. It's the one by American Artist, Spring 2011, on the Barnes and Noble shelves now.
Dave, thanks, I wasn't aware that was available!

Johannes Instructor
03-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Johannes,are you planning to do a short tutorial on brushwork to define oblects in sapce, grass oval;tre es, rocls etc.???????
Maybe in the future. For the time being I need this course to stay focused on the using photos for paintings. However here is a book on brushstrokes that I recommend.
Many of you are asking me for a book that I would recommend for general oil paint application and brushwork.The one I feel covers it is this one,

Brushwork Essentials by Weber

Don't forget to type promo code "WCLIVE" to get 10% off and that the recommendation was generated by this course so we can continue in the future.
Here is the link to this book,
http://www.northlightshop.com/produc...ls/?r=WCLIVEJV (http://www.northlightshop.com/produc...ls/?r=WCLIVEJV)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2011/135220-Z7658.jpg

Johannes Instructor
03-04-2011, 03:40 PM
I am asking for a volunteer to become a moderator of our forum only. You will not need to moderate other forums. The condition is that you have to be a long term member or already a guide. Please email me if you can. Preferably if a student of mine already.
[email protected]

winecountry
03-04-2011, 04:37 PM
Susan yes, only a few pages of writing and all the rest is pics...enough writing to get the gist of what he means tho.

vapsman88
03-04-2011, 07:25 PM
Oh, I'm only aware of one, sorry. It's the one by American Artist, Spring 2011, on the Barnes and Noble shelves now.

David

Also it is available to order here if your local B&N doesn't have it:
http://www.interweavestore.com/Art/American-Artist-Magazine/Plein-Air-Painting-Spring-2011.html

Also available at the same site is last years issue with an article about Jim Wilcox:
http://www.interweavestore.com/Art/American-Artist-Magazine/Plein-Air-Magazine-2010.html

~John

Davkin
03-04-2011, 08:14 PM
Also it is available to order here if your local B&N doesn't have it:
http://www.interweavestore.com/Art/American-Artist-Magazine/Plein-Air-Painting-Spring-2011.html

Also available at the same site is last years issue with an article about Jim Wilcox:
http://www.interweavestore.com/Art/American-Artist-Magazine/Plein-Air-Magazine-2010.html

~John

I have last year's as well. The Wilcox article is a long one, even has two step by step demos.

David

Kumquat
03-04-2011, 10:39 PM
This must be my week for sharing links.. but here is a really, really cool drawing
clip - a woman, from the inside out....
I think ya'll will like this!
http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i=003702

Thank you so much for this--incredible, the sources that you can learn something from. Be fearless and just sketch without lifting the pen and see what happens!

horsthh
03-05-2011, 01:03 AM
For your information, there is a landsnorkeling Blog out in cyberland.
http://landsnorkel.com/
Horst

H2Opaint
03-05-2011, 02:37 PM
"Reading up on the left brain/right brain discussion, I find it interesting that
when I am really absorbed in the painting process that a couple of things happen.
1. I totally lose track of time.. hours can go by and I might think it has been only a short time.
2. I tend to stop thinking in "words".. I don't talk to myself.. seems like the verbal, left brained part of me takes a total back seat.
3. and this one is hard to describe.. maybe you've experienced this too.. I begin "feeling" things with my eyes.. I sense the shape, the roundness or dimension of it.. it is as if I am sculpting with the paintbrush a real object.
i know I'm not explaining this well, but it is an amazing experience when it happens... it is sort of like Alice in Wonderland.. I enter the world of that painting and walk around in there. Mentally, I am in another place, and I am sensing the objects I am painting as clearly as if I were holding or touching them. Does this happen to you guys too?"

I call that experience "When the Muse grabs me" It is a truely wonderful sensation.:grouphug:

Colorix
03-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Really looking forward to today's class. I've been 'off' art for two weeks, as my husband had a complicated surgery, and he's now back home and my artist's life slowly starts to get back.

robertsloan2
03-05-2011, 08:11 PM
Very glad he's home and you have your life back, Charlie. Let him sleep while you play, it's the best thing for him.

Did my homework with markers and posted it. What surprised me was that in two tries I really gave up on following the photo and started making drastic changes, not just moving the boulder but throwing in an extra mountain and reversing the slant of a hill. I'm beginning to see why Johannes does not worry about copyright on interesting magazine or Flickr photos.

susanc
03-05-2011, 09:02 PM
I've been looking forward to today's lesson ever since the classes started--thanks!

pat-trew
03-05-2011, 09:59 PM
About The Questions That Are Asked At The End Of The Webinar, Some Ask Questions And They Are Not Printed In The Question Box, How Do You Ask Questions Other Than The Question Box?? When Ken Reads Them To You Where Do They Come From?? Thank You . Pat T

Johannes Instructor
03-05-2011, 10:50 PM
About The Questions That Are Asked At The End Of The Webinar, Some Ask Questions And They Are Not Printed In The Question Box, How Do You Ask Questions Other Than The Question Box?? When Ken Reads Them To You Where Do They Come From?? Thank You . Pat T
They are all coming from the question box but only we see those questions not the attendees.

Johannes Instructor
03-05-2011, 10:52 PM
I've been looking forward to today's lesson ever since the classes started--thanks!
I hope I was able to convey it clearly.

Johannes Instructor
03-05-2011, 10:54 PM
For your information, there is a landsnorkeling Blog out in cyberland.
http://landsnorkel.com/
Horst
That website was put together by Carol Guzman, Clyde Aspevig's wife. She is a real nice person.

winecountry
03-05-2011, 11:12 PM
while we are all working so hard to become the artist we desire to be...and helping each other go beyond limitations... I thought that this link was amazing, his name is JR and he just won the TED prize for 2011, follow his story on this youtube and see how art changes the world, which is his wish...it's a real inspiration to be who you are

JR's wish for the world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAy1zBtTbw&feature)

BTW the TED site is an amazing and uplifting place and full of creative people from all over the world.

Dharma_bum
03-06-2011, 05:48 AM
The Edgar Payne book that Johannes mentioned "Composition of Outdoor Painting" is still in print, but it is self published by his surviving family, and is available from various sellers on Amazon's website... http://www.amazon.com/Composition-Outdoor-Painting-Edgar-Alwin/dp/0944699022

It's a small book that is quite expensive for it's size, but it's nearly always mentioned in the same breath by the folks that recommend Carlson's book.

Dan

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 09:35 AM
We are constantly getting 1000 people per class now. Therefore many questions are being typed. Even though, Ken does a great job answering these questions, we will not answer all of them because it will take the attendees' attention off the web class screen. I have indicated to Ken to only answer questions that are relevant to composition. Before 3 o'clock and after the class is declared to be over you can type whatever you want but once the class begins at 3 we need to keep the questions relative to the course. After 3 PM please exercise restraint from asking:
1) Questions related to art materials (These can be easily researched on line or answered in your art store). If you don't find an answer then use the student question forum for posting questions:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875302&page=17

2) Questions that are originated out of curiosity that do not contribute to your learning.
3) Some of you type personal things like where you live etc. Take into account that only Judy and Ken are reading your statements. The rest of the attendees cannot see your questions or comments unless it gets answered, then everyone can see it. So please do not use the question window for chat reasons.
3) If your question is important and it is not answered during the web class because it is not related to the courses then you can still type the question and we will flag it to be answered in the Johannes-Student question & answer section for later posting.

hayday77
03-06-2011, 09:53 AM
I think it may be fair to say that johannes may be responsible for creating a lot of bad drivers. :)

I find I am constantly looking at the landscape - looking for melodic lines, abstract shapes, value masses...

This has been an incredible learning experience. I have been rereading: Drawing on the Right Side of your Brain and Carlson's book and Mastering Composition and it is finally reaching a greater understanding. And the best part is THE FREEDOM! Being empowered to change a photo, not just because we can but that we know how and why.

Thanks so much! This is worth giving up so many of my weekend hours.

Arantxa
03-06-2011, 10:09 AM
Until now, I found a waste of time to do any sketches in values and could not access the brilliant mind of those artists that could translate a simple photograph into a fantastic painting. Thank you SOOOOO much!, because with your classes, now, I do understand understand values AT LAST !
Your info could have saved me to buy a few books in the past.
Know I am really excited to do sketches.

tedzart
03-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Just wanted to thank Johannes, Kenneth, Robert and the sponsors of these great classes. I spend my week waiting for the weekends to arrive. What an exciting opportunity is being provided to all of us...A Top Quality Workshop in the comfort of our own home & "Free" to boot.
Thank you,
Teddy

tedzart
03-06-2011, 11:04 AM
I will be taking a workshop from Matt Smith in October at the Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgedale, Missouri near Branson. I am an acrylic artist using Golden and Golden Open.
I have allergy issues with regular oil paints and solvents.
His supply list online includes 6 warms and 6 cools, burnt sienna and white. Should I purchase water soluble oils for his class? If so I wanted to get them for this season, so I am very comfortable with them for the class.
Your thoughts, please.
Teddy

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 11:12 AM
I think it may be fair to say that johannes may be responsible for creating a lot of bad drivers. :)

I find I am constantly looking at the landscape - looking for melodic lines, abstract shapes, value masses...

This has been an incredible learning experience. I have been rereading: Drawing on the Right Side of your Brain and Carlson's book and Mastering Composition and it is finally reaching a greater understanding. And the best part is THE FREEDOM! Being empowered to change a photo, not just because we can but that we know how and why.

Thanks so much! This is worth giving up so many of my weekend hours.

LOL this is so true. I always ask my wife to draw. I say I am a hazard for the road.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Just wanted to thank Johannes, Kenneth, Robert and the sponsors of these great classes. I spend my week waiting for the weekends to arrive. What an exciting opportunity is being provided to all of us...A Top Quality Workshop in the comfort of our own home & "Free" to boot.
Thank you,
Teddy
You know what?? Yes it is top quality.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 11:22 AM
I will be taking a workshop from Matt Smith in October at the Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgedale, Missouri near Branson. I am an acrylic artist using Golden and Golden Open.
I have allergy issues with regular oil paints and solvents.
His supply list online includes 6 warms and 6 cools, burnt sienna and white. Should I purchase water soluble oils for his class? If so I wanted to get them for this season, so I am very comfortable with them for the class.
Your thoughts, please.
Teddy
Tell Good 'ol Matt Smith what you have learned about mass planning and watch for his wink. He will definitely confirm what I have been teaching. He is in regular touch with Kenny. He's the one that said if you have lots of colors keep the values together to avoid a busy feeling. If you paint outdoors you won't need to worry. Water solubles are ok if you paint indoors.

tedzart
03-06-2011, 11:54 AM
A link to a Clyde Aspevig article in Southwest Art magazine, Oct 15th, 2010.

"In an excerpt from his new book, artist Clyde Aspevig reflects on nature, musicality & painting."
http://www.southwestart.com/featured/clyde-aspevig-visual-music

WOW, Susan. Thanks for sharing. This is such an inspiring article. I am sending it to all my students.
Thanks, Teddy

tedzart
03-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Tell Good 'ol Matt Smith what you have learned about mass planning and watch for his wink. He will definitely confirm what I have been teaching. He is in regular touch with Kenny. He's the one that said if you have lots of colors keep the values together to avoid a busy feeling. If you paint outdoors you won't need to worry. Water solubles are ok if you paint indoors.

I take it that you think I should follow his palette in order to learn the most. You may be correct about using the oils outdoors. I have become proficient in using the acrylics and have just stuck with them. But, I really want to make to most of this opportunity to learn from Matt. Thanks for all the wonderful and exciting knowledge that you are sharing with us. I can hardly sleep as my mind is processing so much information. You are an awesome teacher!
How many ways can I say thank you? Amazing!!!!

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 12:07 PM
I take it that you think I should follow his palette in order to learn the most. You may be correct about using the oils outdoors. I have become proficient in using the acrylics and have just stuck with them. But, I really want to make to most of this opportunity to learn from Matt. Thanks for all the wonderful and exciting knowledge that you are sharing with us. I can hardly sleep as my mind is processing so much information. You are an awesome teacher!
How many ways can I say thank you? Amazing!!!!
Show it to me in your art work! That's my thanks.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 12:29 PM
I take it that you think I should follow his palette in order to learn the most. You may be correct about using the oils outdoors. I have become proficient in using the acrylics and have just stuck with them. But, I really want to make to most of this opportunity to learn from Matt. Thanks for all the wonderful and exciting knowledge that you are sharing with us. I can hardly sleep as my mind is processing so much information. You are an awesome teacher!
How many ways can I say thank you? Amazing!!!!
If you are taking a workshop with him yes he would like that you mirror his palette.

crazywoman53
03-06-2011, 12:57 PM
I was one of your Dec. class participants and when you first introduced the mass planning some of it sunk it, but yesterday it was like the light bulb finally got brighter. I am not sure what one phrase you said that did it but now I am looking forward to working with masses instead of feeling like it is a challenge to figure out and work within. Like so many others here I find myself dreaming about the classes and art work. I woke thinking about lines this morning in relationship to the medical field, where my experience comes from. IN art a straight line is equal to a flat line on a heart monitor. It happens too fast, is down right scary and something to dread. A zigzag line on the monitor means the heart is agitated and not beating in the proper rythmn. It can become deadly too if it goes on too long or too much. The normal sinus rhythmn is beautiful. Nice curves, no two alike and in a beat that makes us know all is right not only within our own heart and soul but with the world. The human heart beat is music to loved ones ears both visually and audibly.. how so like the lines in our art. Thank Johannes and all those that support and enhance your efforts for making my heart beat happy.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 01:01 PM
I was one of your Dec. class participants and when you first introduced the mass planning some of it sunk it, but yesterday it was like the light bulb finally got brighter. I am not sure what one phrase you said that did it but now I am looking forward to working with masses instead of feeling like it is a challenge to figure out and work within. Like so many others here I find myself dreaming about the classes and art work. I woke thinking about lines this morning in relationship to the medical field, where my experience comes from. IN art a straight line is equal to a flat line on a heart monitor. It happens too fast, is down right scary and something to dread. A zigzag line on the monitor means the heart is agitated and not beating in the proper rythmn. It can become deadly too if it goes on too long or too much. The normal sinus rhythmn is beautiful. Nice curves, no two alike and in a beat that makes us know all is right not only within our own heart and soul but with the world. The human heart beat is music to loved ones ears both visually and audibly.. how so like the lines in our art. Thank Johannes and all those that support and enhance your efforts for making my heart beat happy.
well stated! Love the analogy.

winecountry
03-06-2011, 01:16 PM
I woke thinking about lines this morning in relationship to the medical field, where my experience comes from. IN art a straight line is equal to a flat line on a heart monitor. It happens too fast, is down right scary and something to dread. A zigzag line on the monitor means the heart is agitated and not beating in the proper rythmn. It can become deadly too if it goes on too long or too much. The normal sinus rhythmn is beautiful. Nice curves, no two alike and in a beat that makes us know all is right not only within our own heart and soul but with the world. The human heart beat is music to loved ones ears both visually and audibly.. how so like the lines in our art. Thank Johannes and all those that support and enhance your efforts for making my heart beat happy.

thank you for this stunning analogy, and it makes an indelible metaphor to remember....really zinged me!

Windrawings
03-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Thank you for taking the time to create these great links to the forums. It makes it much easier to participate. If you ever do have a local workshop in oils please let me know as I have never actually seen someone else paint. I have always sort of painted inside the house even before water solubles and then hid my stuff. Closet Painter I guess. How do you stop the bugs from sticking to your canvas outdoors? Always wondered about that, and of course wind... how do you deal with that if it comes up out of nowhere as sometimes wind does? Sorry I have many questions and I have never spoken to anyone before who could have any answers. None of the people I know personally do this at all.

pjbenson
03-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Just want to say thanks to Robert Sloan (robertsloan2) for uploading the class notes after every class. I think it must take a lot of work and it is fantastic reference material.

Colorix
03-06-2011, 03:05 PM
Somebody in class asked how to get rid of stage fright when painting outdoors. Been there, done that, joined the FB group... :-)

I started in my back yard, advanced to front yard and all neighbours. Next step was out in the woods with the ants as interested spectators. Then I dared a park, chose an offside path with a neat bench. Little did I know that this path became the main walk-through at rush-hour... hundreds passed by, and only two people actually looked at what I was doing. That kind of cured me.

Of course, people walk up when you've reached the 'ugly stage'...

Have a few short statements ready. Everybody will say the same thing, and ask the same question, and *everybody* has a son/niece/aunt/friend who is good at drawing, and they're dying to tell you all about them.

Truly, I discovered that one thing I really needed to bring with me was by business card. People love to have talked to a real live artist.

palongwell
03-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Thank you so much Johannes and Ken for all the information.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 06:19 PM
Somebody in class asked how to get rid of stage fright when painting outdoors. Been there, done that, joined the FB group... :-)

I started in my back yard, advanced to front yard and all neighbours. Next step was out in the woods with the ants as interested spectators. Then I dared a park, chose an offside path with a neat bench. Little did I know that this path became the main walk-through at rush-hour... hundreds passed by, and only two people actually looked at what I was doing. That kind of cured me.

Of course, people walk up when you've reached the 'ugly stage'...

Have a few short statements ready. Everybody will say the same thing, and ask the same question, and *everybody* has a son/niece/aunt/friend who is good at drawing, and they're dying to tell you all about them.

Truly, I discovered that one thing I really needed to bring with me was by business card. People love to have talked to a real live artist.

You overcome it by implemeting this concepts I am teaching. It makes no difference if this is about photos or pein air except that photos tend to go to dark in values around 7. Other than that the concepts of melodic lines, abstract shapes, grouping values etc still apply. I have given many demos where my painting gets to the ugly stage so I developed a trick. I leave a part blank so they don't think it is finished or near completion. LOL
This only applies in public demos.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 06:21 PM
Thank you for taking the time to create these great links to the forums. It makes it much easier to participate. If you ever do have a local workshop in oils please let me know as I have never actually seen someone else paint. I have always sort of painted inside the house even before water solubles and then hid my stuff. Closet Painter I guess. How do you stop the bugs from sticking to your canvas outdoors? Always wondered about that, and of course wind... how do you deal with that if it comes up out of nowhere as sometimes wind does? Sorry I have many questions and I have never spoken to anyone before who could have any answers. None of the people I know personally do this at all.
If a bug gets stuck in my sky, I paint wings on it and call it bird. Can't get more natural than that.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 07:05 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/135220-MVC-348X.JPG
Here is the photo in case any of you want to do a painting inspired on it. Also you can use the other photos I posted in the homework section.

PollyJo
03-06-2011, 07:18 PM
Where do I find the photos to practice the value mass thumbnails?

PollyJo

tuscanni
03-06-2011, 07:23 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/135220-MVC-348X.JPG
Here is the photo in case any of you want to do a painting inspired on it. Also you can use the other photos I posted in the homework section.
I, like probably alot of others, would like to do a painting of your photo/photos. In class, you said that you would love to see some of our work. Which of these forum threads should we post them in? If we post them, will you comment on them?
thanks for another great class...one thing that makes it so great is that you give us challenges, aka homework. That in itself makes me want to explore, makes my mind do cartwheels of creativitity.
ann

northbank
03-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Mtnrunner, it happens to me too. I always lose track of time when painting, but now something new is happening. I am a very realistic painter and was not very satisfied with the result of all that realism in landscapes. When I discovered Johannes on December it was a new revelation to me. I have been following the contour of shapes in Johannes, C. Aspevig and J. Wilcox paintings with the mouse trying to get used to those shapes. Now I am working in my own landscape and realized that when I was doing it I forgot I was dealing with trees, shrubs, mountains, etc It was a pure joy letting my hand slide around those shapes.
I remember about 15 years ago, I studied Betty Edwards " Drawing with the right side of the brain" and in some of the excersises you have to draw looking at it upside down. My drawings were perfect, but when I tried to do it looking at it normal, my drawing was not good at all. At this point in my life Johannes makes me feel like a different and better artist and I am grateful for that, it makes me feel good. Even Kenneth with his presentation made a change, now I feel more connected when I look at those masters painted that I admired so much. Now there is a lot of work ahead trying to let my artist brain take over. Sorry about the lenght of this post. Irma

Stated perfectly. This class is begining to affect me the same way.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 07:49 PM
I, like probably alot of others, would like to do a painting of your photo/photos. In class, you said that you would love to see some of our work. Which of these forum threads should we post them in? If we post them, will you comment on them?
thanks for another great class...one thing that makes it so great is that you give us challenges, aka homework. That in itself makes me want to explore, makes my mind do cartwheels of creativitity.
ann
You can post it in the critique section.

CatinVT
03-06-2011, 07:53 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/135220-MVC-348X.JPG
Here is the photo in case any of you want to do a painting inspired on it. Also you can use the other photos I posted in the homework section.

I am quite excited to attempt this tomorrow incorporating what we've learned and discussed this weekend. It's a snow day here in
Vermont which is also very exciting. But, I'm unclear where the homework section is. Can someone clarify, please.

Thanks.

Cathy

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 08:01 PM
I am quite excited to attempt this tomorrow incorporating what we've learned and discussed this weekend. It's a snow day here in
Vermont which is also very exciting. But, I'm unclear where the homework section is. Can someone clarify, please.

Thanks.

Cathy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923782&page=8

SalzburgBJ
03-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Thanks for everything Johannes — I haven’t had to miss a class yet and I’m so glad, for I’m learning TONS.

I was using your gray values scale to compare areas on downloaded photos (uh-oh, here we go again!) of e.g. Clyde Aspevig’s & Keven Macpherson’s works.

In looking for some definitions to better understand terminology you used (e.g. chroma), I ran across these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorfulness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Color_stubs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey

etc.

I’ve downloaded some of the info to better get a handle on the value system.

It’s all old hat to you, I’m sure, but perhaps some other newbies can find some “value” in it.
;-)

2 a.m. here, better get to bed.
I’m planning my next (knife?) painting (a seascape based on a composite of your “perfect lead-in” shot on the CA coast & another of mine from the same area).

With the aid of the “Vloothuis Values Method” and other professionals’ examples, I’m hoping to produce my best work yet.
(What was the quote someone posted here?
"What's your best painting?"
-- "My next one, I HOPE!") :wave:
Thanks again,
Beth in Salzburg

donnagail
03-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Thank you for this wonderful course! So far I have attended every session except for missing part of yesterday. This is so helpful to a beginner such as myself. Things are making sense to me as I watch your demo on screen and listen to the lecture and try to catch some of Kenneth's answers on the side. This is great!

OPunWide
03-06-2011, 10:10 PM
I found the book we were discussing, Arthur Wesley Dow's Composition, online at books.Google.com and archive.org. I haven't posted enough to be allowed to post links here, so you'll have to figure this out from the pieces.

The older 7th version (1913) is from from the University of Toronto's archives at archives.org. The path there is "/details/compositionserie00dowauoft". There are quite few formats available including Kindle and EPUB.

Google has the 9th (1920) version in pdf only and it looks like it is in slightly better condition, although it has the "Digitized by Google" mark on every page.

The path at books.Google.com is
/books?id=uL0aAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=arthur+wesley+dow+composition&cd=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

If some people can't figure this out, maybe someone else can post clickable links based on the information I provided.

I suggest trying these to see if you like them. I usually end up buying art books because only having them on the computer isn't always convenient or the most comfortable way to enjoy them.

Johannes Instructor
03-06-2011, 10:29 PM
I found the book we were discussing, Arthur Wesley Dow's Composition, online at books.Google.com and archive.org. I haven't posted enough to be allowed to post links here, so you'll have to figure this out from the pieces.

The older 7th version (1913) is from from the University of Toronto's archives at archives.org. The path there is "/details/compositionserie00dowauoft". There are quite few formats available including Kindle and EPUB.

Google has the 9th (1920) version in pdf only and it looks like it is in slightly better condition, although it has the "Digitized by Google" mark on every page.

The path at books.Google.com is
/books?id=uL0aAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=arthur+wesley+dow+composition&cd=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

If some people can't figure this out, maybe someone else can post clickable links based on the information I provided.

I suggest trying these to see if you like them. I usually end up buying art books because only having them on the computer isn't always convenient or the most comfortable way to enjoy them.
If you look at page 55 you will see thumbnail sketches. He uses white to indicate the lighter gray, gray for mid gray and black for the darker gray. He ends up with several alternative value plans from the same source alternating the value masses.

Dharma_bum
03-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Johannes--- Re: Composition Arthur Dow --- There are two versions of this book currently available. They have different subtitles, but the main text of both books appears to be the same. The more expensive version has what has been described as a long and painful introduction by another writer. The less expensive one is carried by NorthLight, and lacks said introduction. It is published by Dover. Here is the link to the NorthLight version. http://www.northlightshop.com/product/composition--understanding-line--notan-and-color-9780486460079

Dan

Catherine the Great
03-07-2011, 01:09 AM
I copied my for free from some archival place. At least I hope I was able to do this. The police haven't knocked on my door yet. It did say the copyright was not in effect I think. If anyone finds anything different let me know and I will pay what needs to be paid.

winecountry
03-07-2011, 01:53 AM
yes easy to find on Google a nice pdf can be had free...I did that tonight, and guess what!?!

what's old ( written in 1899) is new again...here is a quote from the intro


.......the inadequacy of modern art teaching. He vigorously advocated a radically different idea, based as in music, upon synthetic principles. He believed music to be in a sense, the key to the other fine arts, since its essence is pure beauty; that space art may be called "visual music", and may be studied and criticized from this point of view. Convinced that this new conception was a more reasonable approach to art, I gave much time to preparing with Professor Fenollosa a progressive series of synthetic exercises.
:lol: :lol:

carol_lee
03-07-2011, 02:53 AM
yes easy to find on Google a nice pdf can be had free...I did that tonight, and guess what!?!

what's old ( written in 1899) is new again...here is a quote from the intro



:lol: :lol:
link (http://www.archive.org/stream/compositionserie00dowauoft#page/n5/mode/2up)

raxu
03-07-2011, 03:13 AM
thank you so much, carol lee, this was an exiting link!

wetbob
03-07-2011, 03:23 AM
Where do I find the photos to practice the value mass thumbnails?


HERE:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923782&page=9

Arantxa
03-07-2011, 04:27 AM
Thank you so much for the course and explain so clearly the value masses. What is next step? Do you follow color harmony to choose the colors in each mass or you can go wild and put any color you want if they are in the right value?

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 07:31 AM
Thank you so much for the course and explain so clearly the value masses. What is next step? Do you follow color harmony to choose the colors in each mass or you can go wild and put any color you want if they are in the right value?
Color harmony is easier than what they make it out to be. As long as you repeat a main color everywhere else the painting should work. I will be addressing some of this iisues in the course.

bjornjo
03-07-2011, 09:47 AM
i think we should start on a new week but i read a tip about color harmony if you have a complement colors the painting would proably work better if u switch so you keep on same side of color wheel. Most of the time nature will make it quite harmonised since same light source hits evrything but ofc it is more . For ous beginners (atleast for me ) the reflective color will jump out like a black hole would do in light value mass kinda a color spot without harmony that it was supposed to make it (more harmonised that is )

sherrysherman
03-07-2011, 11:54 AM
HERE:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923782&page=9

This link takes you to the right thread for the value map homework, but the three new practice photos are actually on page 8 of the thread. The original three are on page 1. That's also the thread where you should post your own homework value maps.

Arantxa
03-07-2011, 12:21 PM
i think we should start on a new week but i read a tip about color harmony if you have a complement colors the painting would proably work better if u switch so you keep on same side of color wheel. Most of the time nature will make it quite harmonised since same light source hits evrything but ofc it is more . For ous beginners (atleast for me ) the reflective color will jump out like a black hole would do in light value mass kinda a color spot without harmony that it was supposed to make it (more harmonised that is )

Thank you for your advice; I supose you are right. At least at the beginning, it is better to keep with harmonious colors.

robertsloan2
03-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Big thanks to everyone who's been enjoying my notes. I have to mention this again, I get so much out of doing them.

Please try to sketch what Johannes is doing on the screen when he's sketching melodic lines or doing mass value thumbnails. It doesn't take long if you do them small and you don't have to get them perfect - doing them often makes them come out better every time. I can see a lot of progress looking back over my earlier notes.

Johannes, thank you for those beautiful photos to work from. I'm itching to paint all of these references and don't have time to do them all so I'll probably do the red rocks one I thumbnailed. I'll probably do lots more thumbnails though this week since that's making more sense every time I look at them.

Carol, thank you for the link! That's a great free source of still more information. Lots of good things in archives.

I have a link to add too. Johannes, your class has been changing how I look at any art. I always liked watching Arnold Lowrey's pastel demo videos. He does make it look easy and his techniques are fantastic if you're trying to use non sanded pastel paper. It's very different working on sanded paper or on various colored pastel papers that aren't coated, you don't get as many layers on the uncoated papers.

Today was the first time I watched one after taking your classes. It's not entirely obvious till the end that he unified his value masses but he did. He didn't explain that or his melodic lines, but he has melodic lines. I think he plans these before the video even starts, before the sketch stage. Or he does it in his mind because he's got so much practice.

Anyway, I thought this might be fun for comparison and to study his painting - he was constantly correcting it as he went and used several of Johannes's tricks. He even mentioned changing something to "a more interesting shape."

http://www.youtube.com/user/paintinganddrawing#p/c/FECC455278C4B5EF/2/obcuNwzcKjA

Arantxa
03-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Color harmony is easier than what they make it out to be. As long as you repeat a main color everywhere else the painting should work. I will be addressing some of this iisues in the course.

That would be great.
One of the photos from Sunday class (the one with farmhouse on the front and an enormous amount of fields extending to the mountain behind) really "scared me"(from a landscape beginner perspective). How on earth do you paint that space to make it interesting? Where do I start? Choose a green and a yellow and mix up and down with white and complementary colors?
Could you squeeze a little of your expertise and help with our homework for next week? Thank you

jfwalton
03-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Just a thought....I taped a gray scale under my glass palette in hopes it reminds me and helps me...might be a good idea for others?

tuscanni
03-07-2011, 01:20 PM
just in case anyone is interested.......
In our last class Johannes spoke of using squares with grey colors to judge the values in a painting.
I found a small paper grey scale & value finder on jerrys artarama. I thought that it might be useful and would implement some of Johannes ideas....
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/color-mixing-guides/gray-scale-and-value-finder.htm

sherrysherman
03-07-2011, 01:40 PM
I have a link to add too. Johannes, your class has been changing how I look at any art. I always liked watching Arnold Lowrey's pastel demo videos. He does make it look easy and his techniques are fantastic if you're trying to use non sanded pastel paper. It's very different working on sanded paper or on various colored pastel papers that aren't coated, you don't get as many layers on the uncoated papers.

Today was the first time I watched one after taking your classes. It's not entirely obvious till the end that he unified his value masses but he did. He didn't explain that or his melodic lines, but he has melodic lines. I think he plans these before the video even starts, before the sketch stage. Or he does it in his mind because he's got so much practice.

Anyway, I thought this might be fun for comparison and to study his painting - he was constantly correcting it as he went and used several of Johannes's tricks. He even mentioned changing something to "a more interesting shape."

http://www.youtube.com/user/paintinganddrawing#p/c/FECC455278C4B5EF/2/obcuNwzcKjA

Robert, do you have to subscribe to see more than Part 1 (11 minutes)?

winecountry
03-07-2011, 02:37 PM
just in case anyone is interested.......
In our last class Johannes spoke of using squares with grey colors to judge the values in a painting.
I found a small paper grey scale & value finder on jerrys artarama. I thought that it might be useful and would implement some of Johannes ideas....
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/color-mixing-guides/gray-scale-and-value-finder.htm

I have one and it works well and since it's glossy you can dab a bit of paint on it and squint to see where you are. IMO it would not replace the painted square Johannes talked of as you have that right in front of you, and on the same plane as your painting. With the hand held it's hard to get it in the same exact light unless you hold it up each time.....so his method would save time and be more accurate for a working painting I think.

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 04:04 PM
Robert, do you have to subscribe to see more than Part 1 (11 minutes)?
Yes, but still take into account that there are many professional who ignore or don't know about the mass mapping. Like I have said not many know it. So you will find contradictions in some cases with what I have been teaching.
Like I have been saying this is in the elite artists' hands or those who were fortunate enough to learn from them. Also some have such a feeling of esthetics that they don't have to be told about melodic lines and abstract shapes. they just do it by instinct but do not make good teachers because they can't convey what they do that just looks right. You can tell the level of an artist by looking at his shapes. I'm sure Sherry by now you can discern who has been trained.

oils4me
03-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Big thanks to everyone who's been enjoying my notes. I have to mention this again, I get so much out of doing them.

Please try to sketch what Johannes is doing on the screen when he's sketching melodic lines or doing mass value thumbnails. It doesn't take long if you do them small and you don't have to get them perfect - doing them often makes them come out better every time. I can see a lot of progress looking back over my earlier notes.

Johannes, thank you for those beautiful photos to work from. I'm itching to paint all of these references and don't have time to do them all so I'll probably do the red rocks one I thumbnailed. I'll probably do lots more thumbnails though this week since that's making more sense every time I look at them.

Carol, thank you for the link! That's a great free source of still more information. Lots of good things in archives.

I have a link to add too. Johannes, your class has been changing how I look at any art. I always liked watching Arnold Lowrey's pastel demo videos. He does make it look easy and his techniques are fantastic if you're trying to use non sanded pastel paper. It's very different working on sanded paper or on various colored pastel papers that aren't coated, you don't get as many layers on the uncoated papers.

Today was the first time I watched one after taking your classes. It's not entirely obvious till the end that he unified his value masses but he did. He didn't explain that or his melodic lines, but he has melodic lines. I think he plans these before the video even starts, before the sketch stage. Or he does it in his mind because he's got so much practice.

Anyway, I thought this might be fun for comparison and to study his painting - he was constantly correcting it as he went and used several of Johannes's tricks. He even mentioned changing something to "a more interesting shape."

http://www.youtube.com/user/paintinganddrawing#p/c/FECC455278C4B5EF/2/obcuNwzcKjA


Thanks Robert for your wonderful notes once again! :clap: And what an interesting video. I have his book Painting with Acrylics and he has some awesome pictures in there...but this is the first time I've seen him in action. Johannes has definitely taught us how to see better...which is really everything...:) Thanks for the link. I love that kind of stuff...:) Linda

tuscanni
03-07-2011, 07:41 PM
I have one and it works well and since it's glossy you can dab a bit of paint on it and squint to see where you are. IMO it would not replace the painted square Johannes talked of as you have that right in front of you, and on the same plane as your painting. With the hand held it's hard to get it in the same exact light unless you hold it up each time.....so his method would save time and be more accurate for a working painting I think.
Its not the EXACT same idea, I never said that it was. Its somewhat similar, but in different ways. I was just trying to be helpful, was not trying to override Johannes ideas.

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 07:46 PM
That would be great.
One of the photos from Sunday class (the one with farmhouse on the front and an enormous amount of fields extending to the mountain behind) really "scared me"(from a landscape beginner perspective). How on earth do you paint that space to make it interesting? Where do I start? Choose a green and a yellow and mix up and down with white and complementary colors?
Could you squeeze a little of your expertise and help with our homework for next week? Thank you

It will be impossible to answer that question in a few mere paragraphs. But what I can tell you is that if you create melodic lines and design everything into designed pleasing non symmetrical or boring shapes, your painting will work better. Try not make copy of photo rather interpret it into a designed fashion.

sherrysherman
03-07-2011, 07:53 PM
That would be great.
One of the photos from Sunday class (the one with farmhouse on the front and an enormous amount of fields extending to the mountain behind) really "scared me"(from a landscape beginner perspective). How on earth do you paint that space to make it interesting? Where do I start? Choose a green and a yellow and mix up and down with white and complementary colors?
Could you squeeze a little of your expertise and help with our homework for next week? Thank you

To calm your fears, I think the most important thing to know is that our homework is NOT to paint one of the photos he showed (although you are welcome to do that if you want). :)

Our homework is just to do more value maps from the three new photos he posted in the value map exercise thread (page 8) and post one in that thread. Is that a "whew" I hear?

Artglo
03-07-2011, 08:38 PM
Thank you very much for the class. I have Carlson's book and now I look at it with new eyes. Your instruction has really clarified many things for me.
Thanks again.

Artglo
03-07-2011, 08:54 PM
Could someone tell me why Johannes has a sponge under the glass palette. I use a glass palette as well, I put it in a container much like Johannes mentioned, mine is a watercolor box (I think). I have put water in it which keeps my oils from drying out if I'm not going to use them for a bit, but it can be messy and hard to deal with. I like the freezer idea, but why the sponge. Thanks

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 09:00 PM
I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone). These same techniques you can apply to your paintings. All the points I mentioned in how to create a 3D look in my web class are evident in this movie. If you want you can report back to me after you see the movie. By the way I had a contract once to teach in one of the best colleges which produces many graduates that are hired in Disney to do their artwork.

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 09:04 PM
Could someone tell me why Johannes has a sponge under the glass palette. I use a glass palette as well, I put it in a container much like Johannes mentioned, mine is a watercolor box (I think). I have put water in it which keeps my oils from drying out if I'm not going to use them for a bit, but it can be messy and hard to deal with. I like the freezer idea, but why the sponge. Thanks
The sponge is just to dampen shock so the glass won't break if I bang it. You don't put water with the oils. That won't make a difference. Just put the oils on the palette and store in freezer.

Johannes Instructor
03-07-2011, 10:46 PM
I'd like to rephrase my statement, "report back to me" in post 118. It sounds authoritorian. I mean to say share with me with your observations.

Arantxa
03-08-2011, 06:37 AM
To calm your fears, I think the most important thing to know is that our homework is NOT to paint one of the photos he showed (although you are welcome to do that if you want). :)

Our homework is just to do more value maps from the three new photos he posted in the value map exercise thread (page 8) and post one in that thread. Is that a "whew" I hear?

Yes, an enormous "Whew"! Thank you Sherry.:wave:

Laura2011
03-08-2011, 11:37 AM
[quote=Johannes Instructor]I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone).

I wached the movie again just now and I can notice :

"the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values"

What I am unable to notice is :

“3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds” ....

¿ how can you distinguish the 3 layers?

susanc
03-08-2011, 12:24 PM
I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone). These same techniques you can apply to your paintings. All the points I mentioned in how to create a 3D look in my web class are evident in this movie. If you want you can report back to me after you see the movie. By the way I had a contract once to teach in one of the best colleges which produces many graduates that are hired in Disney to do their artwork.
Disney artists also get great training on the job. I've noticed that Scott Christensen, in his "Recognitions and Awards" section says "He has taught workshops at Disney Animation Studios..." and Frank Serrano says in his bio "He has also served as plein air painting consultant for Walt Disney Studios and has taught at the Disney Academy in Burbank, California." I also heard(?) Scott Burdick say something about Pixar having such incredible artists that if Pixar ever failed, fine artists would suddenly have a lot of serious competition! :eek:

"The Princess and the Frog" is showing on Starz next Monday morning where I live.

Johannes Instructor
03-08-2011, 01:44 PM
[quote=Johannes Instructor]I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone).

I wached the movie again just now and I can notice :

"the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values"

What I am unable to notice is :

“3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds” ....

¿ how can you distinguish the 3 layers?




The animated cartoon figures makes the first layer which is very hard edged,then they add another plane with semi soft edges, then they add another further plane with very soft edges.

artist_lynne
03-09-2011, 01:27 PM
As you know Johannes, i have been all over this, asking where is this photo before it was even posted! I am soaking up the teaching like a dry sponge, and am so grateful for the chance to move forward in my work. To try new things and see what happens.

Colorix
03-09-2011, 02:49 PM
Saw clippings of Princess and Frog on the net (no children in the house), and it looks like they're back to the good old way of cartooning, avoiding the stiff 'clay' of 3D. The Ice Age shows beautiful use of gradation of colour, including having separate colours for light and shadow. (Sarback taught them.)

So many of the older Disney movies have these beautiful backgrounds, some look like there are many more layers (good artists painted them!). I'm thinking of "Lady and the Tramp", and that era. I've kind of always looked at how they did it... trying to figure it out... marvelling at how realistic bg works well with flat figures.

Johannes Instructor
03-09-2011, 02:57 PM
Saw clippings of Princess and Frog on the net (no children in the house), and it looks like they're back to the good old way of cartooning, avoiding the stiff 'clay' of 3D. The Ice Age shows beautiful use of gradation of colour, including having separate colours for light and shadow. (Sarback taught them.)

So many of the older Disney movies have these beautiful backgrounds, some look like there are many more layers (good artists painted them!). I'm thinking of "Lady and the Tramp", and that era. I've kind of always looked at how they did it... trying to figure it out... marvelling at how realistic bg works well with flat figures.
Where on the net did you see it?

karan55
03-09-2011, 04:05 PM
This is a picture I have wanted to paint for sentimental reasons, but I just have not figured out where to start. Now; after your classes I realize there are so many traps that have caused the conflicts.
The points of interest, the boy fishing , the two buildings in the upper corners and designs in the water, all seem to be located around the outside edges probably in your “No fly Zone”. I did crop down…but the stuff around the edges was very boring and distracting. Can I just add more pleasing things around the outside to move my pts of interest more towards the middle of the painting?
I also realize there are not many interesting shapes and melodic lines; but now realize or learned that is definitely fixable; easier for you ...than me.. but doable
Even the values are stacked, but I think that is not as big of a problem in light of your words of wisdom. I do like the darkness in the water, so I was wondering if making the back ground a mid value, the middle ground a mid-light value and the foreground the mid-dark value workable???
Is this a lost cause or are there ways around all the problems in this picture???. I find it so hard to figure out until after I am emotionally invested and then terribly frustrated that my results are not what I desired. I would greatly appreciate any advise you have to offer. I have an empty canvas that would also appreciate your help!!!! ( It does not like being bad art.) :confused:

Johannes Instructor
03-09-2011, 06:35 PM
This is a picture I have wanted to paint for sentimental reasons, but I just have not figured out where to start. Now; after your classes I realize there are so many traps that have caused the conflicts.
The points of interest, the boy fishing , the two buildings in the upper corners and designs in the water, all seem to be located around the outside edges probably in your “No fly Zone”. I did crop down…but the stuff around the edges was very boring and distracting. Can I just add more pleasing things around the outside to move my pts of interest more towards the middle of the painting?
I also realize there are not many interesting shapes and melodic lines; but now realize or learned that is definitely fixable; easier for you ...than me.. but doable
Even the values are stacked, but I think that is not as big of a problem in light of your words of wisdom. I do like the darkness in the water, so I was wondering if making the back ground a mid value, the middle ground a mid-light value and the foreground the mid-dark value workable???
Is this a lost cause or are there ways around all the problems in this picture???. I find it so hard to figure out until after I am emotionally invested and then terribly frustrated that my results are not what I desired. I would greatly appreciate any advise you have to offer. I have an empty canvas that would also appreciate your help!!!! ( It does not like being bad art.) :confused:
Yes this picture does have problem. Where the trees meet the grass you have a straight line which can be offset by bringing some tree forward. I elude the chess pieces all lined up. But as an analogy imagine the game is in play and several chess pieces have been moved forward. Do that with your tree to create depth. You can do the same thing with the bushes in the water. I would make the trees a mid dark and all the rest a mid value. I would also show more yellow ochres and browns in those greens.

Johannes Instructor
03-09-2011, 07:28 PM
There will be a slight change of plans about classes this weekend. Initially I had said I would do a demo on Saturday but that won't be a good idea because I have to go over your homework with you so I will do a pastel demo on Sunday.

nvcricket
03-09-2011, 10:00 PM
Here is the trailer for The Princess and the Frog....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xOPH02ozbE


Carol

Moart
03-09-2011, 10:23 PM
Hi Johannes....I posted a painting of mine in progress just now and you gave me a wonderful critique...Thank you! I was wondering about my colors, I've been painting for 43 years, 34 professionally, I have already seen an improvement in my work since watching your webinar. I primarily paint domestic animals, children and wildlife. With your tutilage I am more aware of my values than ever. I 've always known about my 3 values but didn't know to mass each area together. I'm so excited to finally know this elusive bit of information.
I'm very interested now in moving forward with my colors. If you would like, I could post some of my work for a critique, I'm very aware my values are all over the place on my previous work but my colors could use some work as well.

Thank you Johannes, not only for myself but many others as well are learning and very excited about embarking on a new found knowledge and inspiriation.

Maurade

Johannes Instructor
03-10-2011, 07:35 AM
Hi Johannes....I posted a painting of mine in progress just now and you gave me a wonderful critique...Thank you! I was wondering about my colors, I've been painting for 43 years, 34 professionally, I have already seen an improvement in my work since watching your webinar. I primarily paint domestic animals, children and wildlife. With your tutilage I am more aware of my values than ever. I 've always known about my 3 values but didn't know to mass each area together. I'm so excited to finally know this elusive bit of information.
I'm very interested now in moving forward with my colors. If you would like, I could post some of my work for a critique, I'm very aware my values are all over the place on my previous work but my colors could use some work as well.

Thank you Johannes, not only for myself but many others as well are learning and very excited about embarking on a new found knowledge and inspiriation.

Maurade
I typed up some suggestions in the critique section about your painting.
Sure post the paintings in the critique thread:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864472&page=25

susanc
03-10-2011, 11:49 AM
Hope you've caught your breath, because this came out last night! It looks like Johannes thinks we're ready to start moving further ahead. I also hope I have the links right. It's been a while since I've publicly humiliated myself so I thought it was time to take a stab at it again! :)
from http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13664223&postcount=193:
Hey everyone how about we start seeing some paintings based on the photos and your thumbnail sketches. Give me some feedback.
From http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13656217&postcount=83 (The farmhouse photo is also at this link.)
"Here is the photo in case any of you want to do a painting inspired on it. Also you can use the other photos I posted in the homework section."
The 3 newest photos are at:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13656338&postcount=113

The original 3 photos are at:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923782

I think these paintings should be posted in the following thread:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924417

And finally, here's a value scale Johannes gave us a while back:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2011/1697-value_scale_2-7horizontal.jpg

Sorry--can't resist.
Good morning, fellow artists.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it is to create a painting based on the photos and your thumbnail sketches. Should you or any member of your team fail in your mission, the Agency will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Good luck! :music: Da da duh da Da Da duh da...:music:

susanc
03-10-2011, 01:15 PM
Oops. It's already too late to remove the value scale I posted. I remember hearing Johannes say that he prefers us to use commercially-prepared value scales instead of ones printed off our home printers. They give more accurate results.

Earlier, I accidentally printed a value scale at low print quality on my own printer and it came out lighter than the value scale I printed afterward at a higher quality. Also, the type of paper you use makes a difference, the more porous the paper, possibly the lighter your results. There are so many variables!

It's probably best to train your eyes to become accustomed to the right values from the start. So please resist any temptation to print out the example I posted and get one from an art store instead. (:evil: Actually, I did that on purpose so I would hopefully be the only one with painting with the right values! :) )

Colorix
03-10-2011, 01:22 PM
Johannes, Carol gave a link (post 131), and I simply googled it.

Susan, :-) what was the homework now? I had to answer the phone, and then there were just smoke coming from the screen. ;-) Thank you for the laugh!

sherrysherman
03-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Johannes, Carol gave a link (post 131), and I simply googled it.

Susan, :-) what was the homework now? I had to answer the phone, and then there were just smoke coming from the screen. ;-) Thank you for the laugh!

LOL to you to, Charlie!

For me, somehow Susan's music (da da duh da) came out as the Twilight Zone theme (probably I never watched enough Mission Impossible to get to know the theme). Somehow the Twilight Zone theme seemed just as appropriate. :)

Johannes Instructor
03-10-2011, 03:13 PM
Oops. It's already too late to remove the value scale I posted. I remember hearing Johannes say that he prefers us to use commercially-prepared value scales instead of ones printed off our home printers. They give more accurate results.

Earlier, I accidentally printed a value scale at low print quality on my own printer and it came out lighter than the value scale I printed afterward at a higher quality. Also, the type of paper you use makes a difference, the more porous the paper, possibly the lighter your results. There are so many variables!

It's probably best to train your eyes to become accustomed to the right values from the start. So please resist any temptation to print out the example I posted and get one from an art store instead. (:evil: Actually, I did that on purpose so I would hopefully be the only one with painting with the right values! :) )
Printers are usually way off in color and values.

susanc
03-10-2011, 05:40 PM
LOL, Charlie. Homework assignment? What homework? ;)

LOL, Sherry. I'm afraid that's a bad sign I'm not going to do so well with my melodic lines...

As for printers being way off in colors and values, that was the weird thing. The same value scale image came out cool tones in the econo printed version, and warm tones in the high quality printed version. :music: Da da duh da Da da duh da... :music: Oh yeah, that does work pretty well for the theme from the Twilight Zone! I'll probably have to use that when I post this next homework assignment. Sorry, I mean, what homework?

susanc
03-10-2011, 08:21 PM
Oops, I meant my next homework assignment! It's my 2nd oil landscape ever...but if I don't post it, I can't get help! Just shield your eyes, everyone! I do garish well!

Sienna black
03-11-2011, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the hints. I will venture out for sure.

vapsman88
03-11-2011, 01:51 AM
Saw clippings of Princess and Frog on the net (no children in the house), and it looks like they're back to the good old way of cartooning, avoiding the stiff 'clay' of 3D. The Ice Age shows beautiful use of gradation of colour, including having separate colours for light and shadow. (Sarback taught them.)

So many of the older Disney movies have these beautiful backgrounds, some look like there are many more layers (good artists painted them!). I'm thinking of "Lady and the Tramp", and that era. I've kind of always looked at how they did it... trying to figure it out... marvelling at how realistic bg works well with flat figures.

If you would like to see just the backgrounds from various classic Disney and other studios features, check this out:
This is from Pinocchio, but there are many others in this blog.
http://animationbackgrounds.blogspot.com/search/label/PINOCCHIO
Lady and the Tramp:
http://animationbackgrounds.blogspot.com/search/label/LADY%20AND%20THE%20TRAMP

~John

beejane
03-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Costco (Super Discount Box Store) has Photoshop Elements for $79.99 (Can). It's a little frustrating figuring out new things, so I followed somebody's link to Scott Burdick's site where he has a tutorial for using Photoshop. It's a downloadable file for $20.
http://www.scottburdick.com/
I don't think it is just for Photoshop Elements, the abridged version of Photoshop so I might run into some differences once I watch the rest. Since he is an artist, Scott's instructions are for how to use Photoshop to turn photos into paintings. I've just watched the first half hour of the two hour program, and already learned how to use layers and histograms to change the dark values.
I had to turn off my anti-virus program to allow Scott's site to download the downloader program (getting a bit complicated), but after I figured that out, there wasn't any problem in downloading the two hour program on my satellite highspeed internet. The site has a secure Visa payment method.
Scott should have had the Go to Meeting webinar program instead of just photographing his monitor, but it's viewable and the instructions start at a beginner level.
Oh, also, sometimes Firefox will not allow me to download, view Go to Meeting, upload pictures to Wetcanvas. I have to switch to Internet Explorer for all of these activities.

robertsloan2
03-11-2011, 10:28 AM
Robert, do you have to subscribe to see more than Part 1 (11 minutes)?

No, I just clicked on paintinganddrawingchannel on Youtube and found the rest of it easily. Sometimes the next one is right up in "related videos" on the side too. I did subscribe though because they do new art videos every week and it's free. I was surprised I hadn't before when I saw some other videos by Arnold Lowrey.

robertsloan2
03-11-2011, 10:38 AM
Here is the trailer for The Princess and the Frog....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xOPH02ozbE


Carol

Carol, thank you! Our household stopped getting cable back in 2006 and we never had Starz or any paid channels other than Syfy. We realized that we'd paid the bill for three months but no one in the house had watched television in that time. My daughter and son in law thought I was watching, I thought they were watching, it was ludicrous to keep paying the bill.

It might be on Netflix. I'll check and see if it's on instant streaming on Netflix and edit that into this post.

Yes, it's on instant streaming at home if you're on Netflix. Good to know.

sherrysherman
03-11-2011, 10:43 AM
I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone).

Okay, I did my homework - such a struggle! But not very well, I don't think. :( I kept being distracted by the characters and the story line.

I'll have to try again so I can focus more on the BG and the artwork. I did that SOME this time, but I can do better. I stopped it a lot to really check it out - stopping it was the only way to really focus on the differences in the layers. (Also fun to see the abstract shapes the artists used.)


I

¿ how can you distinguish the 3 layers?



Linda, you can distinguish the layers most easily when the video is playing - the different layers move at different speeds to enhance the sense of depth.

robertsloan2
03-11-2011, 11:32 AM
Sherry, it helps to pause the video to look at the art. That's the only way I can keep concentrating on the backgrounds rather than the story. It's there in every scene though. Try pausing at random. There's a swamp scene that has seven different layers - seven! It's beautiful.

carol_lee
03-11-2011, 12:07 PM
For those that know how to use bit-torrents here is a link (http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5396347/The_Princess_and_the_Frog%5B2009%5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-FXG)!!!!

susanc
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
I live about 20 miles away from the nearest art supply store (yes, life is so unfair! :) ), so I don't have a mid-value paper yet to put under my glass "palette". Since my paints are fairly dark values to start with, it's pretty easy to mix mid-darks, which unfortunately, is the smallest of my value masses. Wouldn't you know the largest mass, the midtones, is so much harder! :) I really need that midtone value underneath my palette to judge against.

There's a Scrapbook store nearby that carries different shades of cardstock, so I'm probably going to grab my value scale and head over there.

I know one person suggested gray auto primer. I thought I'd try it out. I only have an old yellowed value scale to check it against, so the jury is still out on the results. I do know for sure that it reeks!

susanc
03-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Sorry--keep changing my mind about what to say about the primer. I'm still undecided whether it works out or not. It does give me a headache, for certain!
:)

sherrysherman
03-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Sherry, it helps to pause the video to look at the art. That's the only way I can keep concentrating on the backgrounds rather than the story. It's there in every scene though. Try pausing at random. There's a swamp scene that has seven different layers - seven! It's beautiful.

Yes, Robert, that's what I did. (I said I "stopped" it a lot; I guess I meant I paused it a lot.) Of course, it's easier to distinguish the planes when they are moving at different speeds. So I'd run it a couple of seconds, pause it, run it, pause it, etc. The swamp scenes were wonderful.

I'm thinking that turning off the sound will also help on just exploring the BG art.

sherrysherman
03-11-2011, 02:26 PM
I live about 20 miles away from the nearest art supply store (yes, life is so unfair! :) ), so I don't have a mid-value paper yet to put under my glass "palette". Since my paints are fairly dark values to start with, it's pretty easy to mix mid-darks, which unfortunately, is the smallest of my value masses. Wouldn't you know the largest mass, the midtones, is so much harder! :) I really need that midtone value underneath my palette to judge against.

There's a Scrapbook store nearby that carries different shades of cardstock, so I'm probably going to grab my value scale and head over there.

I know one person suggested gray auto primer. I thought I'd try it out. I only have an old yellowed value scale to check it against, so the jury is still out on the results. I do know for sure that it reeks!

Some time back I got a #5 gray card from a camera/photo supply store. It may not be big enough (it was 8 1/2 x 11), but you could also use it to check value of standard construction paper, or even to paint a piece of paper.

Laura2011
03-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Johannes,

I think I read (I cannot find the thread) that tomorrow the class is going to be a painting demo in pastels. If I am right ¿could you post the materials and the image that you are going to use so that we can paint along with you?. Thank you.

sherrysherman
03-11-2011, 03:35 PM
Johannes,

I think I read (I cannot find the thread) that tomorrow the class is going to be a painting demo in pastels. If I am right ¿could you post the materials and the image that you are going to use so that we can paint along with you?. Thank you.

Johannes recently wrote that the pastel demo will be Sunday, not Saturday. I'm sure he'll post or email the ref photo. I guess the big question would be-- should you do your underdrawing first (as he does) or wait to see what he does, what changes he makes from the photo. :)

sherrysherman
03-11-2011, 03:45 PM
No, I just clicked on paintinganddrawingchannel on Youtube and found the rest of it easily. Sometimes the next one is right up in "related videos" on the side too. I did subscribe though because they do new art videos every week and it's free. I was surprised I hadn't before when I saw some other videos by Arnold Lowrey.

Robert, did you notice that sometimes Lowrey uses his right hand, sometimes his left? Really strange to watch. (Maybe he's trained himself to sometimes use the left because of camera placement.) :)

susanc
03-11-2011, 08:51 PM
Some time back I got a #5 gray card from a camera/photo supply store. It may not be big enough (it was 8 1/2 x 11), but you could also use it to check value of standard construction paper, or even to paint a piece of paper.

I hadn't thought of that--thanks!

shbezaire
03-12-2011, 06:48 AM
I will be taking a workshop from Matt Smith in October at the Big Cedar Lodge in Ridgedale, Missouri near Branson. I am an acrylic artist using Golden and Golden Open.
I have allergy issues with regular oil paints and solvents.
His supply list online includes 6 warms and 6 cools, burnt sienna and white. Should I purchase water soluble oils for his class? If so I wanted to get them for this season, so I am very comfortable with them for the class.
Your thoughts, please.
Teddy

Hi Teddy,
I travel quite a bit with my oil paints and spent 2 months in Africa last summer. I was not able to find a source for turpenoid before I left so I decided to try the water soluble oils. I even bought the medium developed by the manufacture. I found the results to be satisfactory, but there were two things I learned:

The paints worked better for me without the medium - I'm not sure if it was due to hot, dry climate or what - I had tried them at home (OH) and they worked great with the medium, but not in Botswana & South Africa. The painting surface became tacky too quickly and my brush would lift off the underpainting when I applied more paint.
I was very surprised at how long it takes the paint to dry - longer than my regular oils. Normally when I travel, I have a box that holds 6 paintings and by the time I reach the 7th day, the 1st one is dry enough to stack - not with the water soluble oils! Make sure you bring enough carriers for your paintings. Hope this helps,
Susi
www.SusiHavensBezaire.com

Laura2011
03-12-2011, 07:28 AM
Hi Teddy,
I travel quite a bit with my oil paints and spent 2 months in Africa last summer. I was not able to find a source for turpenoid before I left so I decided to try the water soluble oils. I even bought the medium developed by the manufacture. I found the results to be satisfactory, but there were two things I learned:

The paints worked better for me without the medium - I'm not sure if it was due to hot, dry climate or what - I had tried them at home (OH) and they worked great with the medium, but not in Botswana & South Africa. The painting surface became tacky too quickly and my brush would lift off the underpainting when I applied more paint.
I was very surprised at how long it takes the paint to dry - longer than my regular oils. Normally when I travel, I have a box that holds 6 paintings and by the time I reach the 7th day, the 1st one is dry enough to stack - not with the water soluble oils! Make sure you bring enough carriers for your paintings.Hope this helps,
Susi
www.SusiHavensBezaire.com (http://www.SusiHavensBezaire.com)
I started to paint some months ago and use WS oils for health reasons. I have the same problems, they take quite a long time to dry (white sometimes 2 or 3 weeks) and they seem to work better with water or without medium than with the special medium. Also I attend classes with other people who use normal oils and they look brighter (my pictures seem to get darker with time), however to be able to wash or thin them with plain water is an important plus for me. That said I wish I could find a solvent to clean the brushes used with normal oils with no health risks.

That is my short experience, hope it helps.

Colorix
03-12-2011, 08:12 AM
Thank you for the links, John! Amazing what is out there on the net.

If you would like to see just the backgrounds from various classic Disney and other studios features, check this out:
This is from Pinocchio, but there are many others in this blog.
http://animationbackgrounds.blogspot.com/search/label/PINOCCHIO
Lady and the Tramp:
http://animationbackgrounds.blogspot.com/search/label/LADY%20AND%20THE%20TRAMP

~John

rib00
03-12-2011, 11:01 AM
That said I wish I could find a solvent to clean the brushes used with normal oils with no health risks..

There is a product called Eco House Citrus Thinner that works with oil paints without the toxic odors. I have not tried it but intend to. You can find it a various online art supply sites.

Has anyone tried it??

vapsman88
03-12-2011, 11:56 AM
Thank you for the links, John! Amazing what is out there on the net.

Also a trick I discovered when looking at images in the browser (IE, Firefox, etc), you can zoom into the image by pressing Ctrl and the + key simultaneously. Each successive press of both keys zooms in farther and Ctrl plus the 0 key (Zero) will reset to normal.

~John

winecountry
03-12-2011, 12:00 PM
I started to paint some months ago and use WS oils for health reasons. I have the same problems, they take quite a long time to dry (white sometimes 2 or 3 weeks) and they seem to work better with water or without medium than with the special medium. Also I attend classes with other people who use normal oils and they look brighter (my pictures seem to get darker with time), however to be able to wash or thin them with plain water is an important plus for me. That said I wish I could find a solvent to clean the brushes used with normal oils with no health risks.

That is my short experience, hope it helps.

You can clean brushes with safflower oil and wash with Ivory or castille soap after, I've done this for several years it works well, or you can use WN Brush Cleaner and Restorer, non toxic, biodegrable, more expensive but works fine even on dried up oil pant Citrus thinners still have some health issues for many

sherrysherman
03-12-2011, 12:26 PM
Also a trick I discovered when looking at images in the browser (IE, Firefox, etc), you can zoom into the image by pressing Ctrl and the + key simultaneously. Each successive press of both keys zooms in farther and Ctrl plus the 0 key (Zero) will reset to normal.

~John

And of course, for Macs, this is Command and Plus (+) key simultaneously. Command and Minus or hyphen (-) key together to shrink it one step at a time.

This works for any browser window, not just images. Also for emails. So if you just want the typeface larger, you can use it. (As our vision goes, this proves very helpful!)

Johannes Instructor
03-12-2011, 08:46 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2011/135220-IMG_6343.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2011/135220-thumbnail.jpg
Here is the photo on which I will base my painting tomorrow. I picked the one I felt would be the best for learning.

sue burke
03-12-2011, 10:06 PM
It's not just the Princess and the Frog. I pulled out my copy of the Jungle Book and while I never noticed the backgrounds before, I'm amazed at them--the depth they achieve is incredible, they make a whole jungle full of trees with just a few strokes and soft vs hard edges...I may never be able to 'watch' a disney cartoon again--and even at the ripe old age of 55, I still love them!

sue burke
03-12-2011, 10:13 PM
I see a lot of people posting about how they use grey scales on their palettes. I use a folding patio side table with a clear tempered glass top (I have a problem with my spine, so I have to sit to paint)--anyway, with acrylic paint, I painted the underneath with a large section of mid-value in the center, and on one side I painted a light mid and the other a dark mid --I used a grey scale card I bought at an art store to check to make sure I got them right....it works really well for me. Once again, I cannot believe how much I've learned in this class!

Stephanie_Draws
03-13-2011, 08:49 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2011/135220-IMG_6343.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2011/135220-thumbnail.jpg
Here is the photo on which I will base my painting tomorrow. I picked the one I felt would be the best for learning.

Johannes: Thanks for posting the reference and value sketch already!

Will you post your sketch/underpainting before class today too? I've noticed you've always prepared this beforehand, so I wondered if you might post it too for everyone to be at the same stage as you when starting.

Looking forward to tonights (for me ^_^) demo!

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 11:28 AM
Today Sunday at 3 PM EST (Eastern Standard Time) Johannes will give a live pastel painting demo of a scene from the Oregon Coast.
Today the time changed here in Ontario Canada due to daylight savings time compared to other countries and regions. In some countries the time did not change so check what
time the demo would be where you are. Use this time converter.

http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc (http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc)

We will not be using the web class “Gotowebinar” window for today after 3:00 PM (EST). However it will be open at from 2:00 PM to 3:00 PM(EST) in case you want to ask Johannes questions like we always do. After 3 PM (EST) go to this website below for the live painting webcam demo.

http://cyberartlearning.com/webcam/webcam1size.html (http://cyberartlearning.com/webcam/webcam1size.html)
The screen will ask you for a password. Type in “pigment”. Make sure you use small letters.

Because of the huge volume of people that will be watching the video today if for any remote reason ustream, the company that hosts the live video,
crashes or disconnects us we will regroup in the go to meeting webinar to continue the class there. This is the first time I use ustream to broadcast the video so I don’t know if they will limit the users.

If you have problems with the video screen not fitting properly you can remove tool bars to make more room by right clicking at the top of
your browser. Also check you zoom options in your browser and make sure it says 100% if your video screen does not fit well. You will find that in internet explorer under “page” and in firefox under “view”.
Also there is an option at the bottom right to make the video full screen. This you can also do if you find the chat window to be annoying.
By making it full screen the chat window disappears. You can toggle back and forth if you wish to see the chat while the video is playing.

You will see the reference photo that Johannes will use underneath the video screen.
All of you will be able to chat but there will probably be up to 2000 people watching today . We beg you to use the chat window for questions only. Kenneth will be reading
important questions out loud and will have a lot of problems if we use that window for general chat. The screen will move too fast. Please type your questions in CAPITAL LETTERS for easy detection.

If you want to chat you will have to create a user name. If you don’t want to chat and only read then it won’t be necessary.

If for any reason during the demo you lose audio or video refresh the screen. If that doesn’t work close your browser and rerun it. If that doesn’t work reboot your computer.
As long as many of you are getting audio and video that means we are broadcasting correctly the problem would not be at our end so we can’t help you.

Johannes will work on this painting until its conclusion. He may need more time to finish it so plan another hour or so today.

susanc
03-13-2011, 11:39 AM
Ustream says you should be OK--

http://helpcenter.ustream.tv/content/limits-viewers-and-recorded-video

Limits on Viewers and Recorded Video

Ustream allows you to broadcast to as many viewers as you’d like. You can also have ...a maximum record time of 3 hours.

http://www.ustream.tv/forum/showthread.php?875-Maximum-number-of-people-connected-to-view-my-video-at-UStream.tv

Question: Is there anyone out there knows what is the maximum number of people that can get connected at the same time to view my live streaming video from my webcam?

Answer: no limit. I have seem more that 9500 viewers on a show. the only limit is the internet and the bandwidth coming into ustream whom can support thousands of shows with thousands of viewers.

So, hopefully 3000 should be OK! :) (Well, in theory it should work! ;) )

Dougwas
03-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Hey, Johannes, shouldn't the start time be 3:00 PM EDT? I don't want to confuse things, but you are on daylight time now, not standard time.

Doug

Dragoon
03-13-2011, 12:14 PM
Hello
I'm sorry if its been answered already, but is the demo going to be oil pastel, or dry pastel?

When people just say 'pastel', is there a default answer? Does it mean dusties unless specified oil or something? (I'm new to the medium, I appreciate the clarification!)
Thanks!
D.

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 12:34 PM
Hello
I'm sorry if its been answered already, but is the demo going to be oil pastel, or dry pastel?

When people just say 'pastel', is there a default answer? Does it mean dusties unless specified oil or something? (I'm new to the medium, I appreciate the clarification!)
Thanks!
D.


Dry (sometimes referred to as "soft pastels," even tho it may include some of the harder soft pastels, medium softs, and softie softs). Yes, that's the default when people say "pastels."

Spudisle2
03-13-2011, 02:11 PM
Thank you so much for the handout summary _ you certainally put a lot of work into this class. It is much appreciated.

robertsloan2
03-13-2011, 02:29 PM
Johannes, thank you for posting everything about the class!

I was reading "Eye of the Painter" by Andrew Loomis today, intrigued because it's the source of yesterday's handout. Came across this quote to share, which stood out because last night I experienced it.

Twilight is a good critic
of your canvas. If the patterns and design hold up
in twilight you may be sure they will in good
light.

I have a painting in progress on my easel. When I woke early this morning before there was much light, I could barely see it - but I could recognize the subject. For a moment in that dim light, the cat of my painting looked as if he was really there a few feet away laying on his folded blanket. The light came up and as it did I could see my painting was unfinished. But in that first dim blue glance, he completely fooled me and looked alive.

I know I'm on the right track with the painting because it looked good in that dim light.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 02:42 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2011/135220-IMG_6343.jpg
Here is the Reference Photo for the pastel demo for Sunday March 13

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 02:46 PM
I just found out that the live video has a limitation for the first link. I gave you so use this one to watch the demo. Everyone will fit that way.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wetcanvaslive


password is "pigment" <<<< NO quotation marks

pixieartist
03-13-2011, 04:19 PM
Hi Johannes, Sorry to say that your video was a no go for me.:crying: All I got was a silent black screen.:confused: I finally signed off and restarted again, same thing:confused: . I also tried the webinar again, (twice), got in, but the 'screen' said "waiting for organizer", probably indicating that you were not there...yet. I did find a 'sidebar'? with different people writing comments:thumbsup: . One had no sound..a few did, so they were probably seeing the video.:crossfingers: Lucky them! I am soooo disappointed. I even went home around noon to get my pastels and some paper to follow along in case you wanted us to do so. So I guess I missed your class today..Sometimes technology sucks!!!:confused: :crying: :o :( :crying: :crying:
Will you be doing another watercolor demo during the classes on the weekends til April 17????:wave: There is no way that this demo was 'copied' (or whatever the term is), is there???? Hope to hear from you soon...after your class, anyway. Thanks, Pixieartist

Rosemarie
03-13-2011, 04:36 PM
pixelartist, have you checked your mail?

Kandrea
03-13-2011, 05:49 PM
The pastel demo was super to watch! I am overwhelmed with Johannes's knowledge and technique with pastel, oil and watercolor. You Rock!

ResaResa
03-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Thank you Johannes and Kenneth (and the crew) for all your hard work. I can't imagine how much time you have all put into this. Loved the demo, really helps focus the lessons. Got kicked off the demo before I could express my thanks.

sapphirelynn
03-13-2011, 05:57 PM
thank you both so much for the demo today. I learned a lot and am very grateful. As I paint in acrylic I am looking forward to the next demo. Thank you again.. Lynn

Obion
03-13-2011, 06:03 PM
Sorry Johannes, the lesson to-day Sunday 13 March - I had to log off also, just a Black screen only...

jmcedeno
03-13-2011, 06:09 PM
Johannes today's pastel demo was fantastic and the final painting was breath taking, you're really a master at the medium as well as in oil and watercolor, you make it look soooo! easy. Thank you very very much to you and Ken for all the time and effort you put in our behalf.

springcleaner
03-13-2011, 06:17 PM
Thank you Johannes. I will do a watercolor from one of the phots when they are posted.

Can someone give me technical help on how to get the final painting to Johannes.

I need explicit steps please, starting with what to do when the painting is dry.!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Liz:

ToucanSam
03-13-2011, 06:21 PM
Thanks for taking the time and having the patience to deal with all of us! I don't know how you and Kenneth and Judy do it, but you do.

Fantastic work today. I suspect a LOT of people who never worked with pastels before are shopping right now!

See you next weekend!

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:21 PM
Ustream says you should be OK--

http://helpcenter.ustream.tv/content/limits-viewers-and-recorded-video

Limits on Viewers and Recorded Video

Ustream allows you to broadcast to as many viewers as you’d like. You can also have ...a maximum record time of 3 hours.

http://www.ustream.tv/forum/showthread.php?875-Maximum-number-of-people-connected-to-view-my-video-at-UStream.tv

Question: Is there anyone out there knows what is the maximum number of people that can get connected at the same time to view my live streaming video from my webcam?

Answer: no limit. I have seem more that 9500 viewers on a show. the only limit is the internet and the bandwidth coming into ustream whom can support thousands of shows with thousands of viewers.

So, hopefully 3000 should be OK! :) (Well, in theory it should work! ;) )
Wow! Thanks so much for the homework. The system did prove to work. I concerned with over 1000 people watching.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:22 PM
Thank you Johannes. I will do a watercolor from one of the phots when they are posted.

Can someone give me technical help on how to get the final painting to Johannes.

I need explicit steps please, starting with what to do when the painting is dry.!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Liz:
You post it in the critique section.

springcleaner
03-13-2011, 06:23 PM
I am going to attempt a watercolor from one of the photos that Johannes posts after his pastel seminar, but I need someone to help me with the techinal part of getting the painting to him.

I have never uploaded?? anything to a site.

Can you give me explicit steps on what to do after I have finished the painting??

Thanks,
Liz:crossfingers:

springcleaner
03-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Okay, where do I find the critique section and then what.

I realize I have to take a picture of the painting with my camera, print out the picture but then what do I do??:confused:

springcleaner
03-13-2011, 06:26 PM
this may be very stupid to a lot of you, but I need baby steps to learn how to accomplish this

Kayt
03-13-2011, 06:28 PM
Great demo and so much helpful information today...Thank you!! I have come late to Johanne's workshops but have been catching up via the discussion group and Robert's notes. I am looking forward to the photos tomorrow!!

Nahant
03-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Excellent demo, Johannes. Watching your work in process answers so many questions for me. For example, today it was fascinating for me to see you work through the adjustment of values between the mid-dark and mid-mid areas so that they finally "read" and were consistent with your map. I also took a deep breath when you opened up the top of the painting and gave the trees space to sing. Many thanks!

Betty

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Okay, where do I find the critique section and then what.

I realize I have to take a picture of the painting with my camera, print out the picture but then what do I do??:confused:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864472
Take a picture with digital camera.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Hello
I'm sorry if its been answered already, but is the demo going to be oil pastel, or dry pastel?

When people just say 'pastel', is there a default answer? Does it mean dusties unless specified oil or something? (I'm new to the medium, I appreciate the clarification!)
Thanks!
D.
Soft pastels are dusty yes. That's what I used.

LLeone
03-13-2011, 07:03 PM
I attempted my first painting working alongside you Johannes and learned a lot!! Of course I made many, many mistakes and my painting looks nothing like I envisioned. I have 12 colours (no black or white), so that pushed me to incorporate light using the other colours. I may go back into it and try to correct things once I've let it sit for a while. Very interesting experience - thank-you once again for teaching us. Please express my appreciation to Ken, Judy and any others who are working behind the scenes to make this a wonderful experience. I am anxiously awaiting the books I've ordered.

Myasko
03-13-2011, 07:28 PM
Missed yesterday as I took grandchildren to Frog exibit at the Museum of the Rockies 100 miles away, but loved the demo today. I think I absorbed a lot (hope I can retain it) Went to school in the 60's in graphic design and three of the instructors at that time used the challenge of "we are here to weed out those who cannot create in a stress environment" However there were also some who wanted to share information, so while I also had some great instructors, none have been so great with information sharing as you and I have learned so much about mass and hue. Must not have taken the first time around as I concentrated on the rules of creating a product desire and need. Also,I keep buying pastels and oil pastels, never using them as mainly concentrate on watercolor. You have opened up a lot of possiblities as mostly overlapped watercolor with ink and colored pencils in the past. Great Demo!

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 08:32 PM
I am going to attempt a watercolor from one of the photos that Johannes posts after his pastel seminar, but I need someone to help me with the techinal part of getting the painting to him.

I have never uploaded?? anything to a site.

Can you give me explicit steps on what to do after I have finished the painting??

Thanks,
Liz:crossfingers:
Take a digital picture. Upload it to your computer. DON'T print it out. You need to note WHERE it is on your computer. You will upload the digital image from your computer to the WC website.

First, you need to resize your photo so that the LONGEST dimension is no more than 800 pixels. There are various software apps that you can use - some available on the web. Don't know what they are. (I use Photoshop Elements because I have it.)

Then watch this instructional video:
http://www.screencast.com/users/Yorky/folders/Jing/media/f0c3af8a-085d-44ba-b5d3-aab27d1d8457

Go to the WC thread Johannes gave out - the thread will probably be the one with a title something like "Post your paintings from thumbnails here." Click "Post Reply" to add your post - that button is to the left, BELOW all the previous posts and ABOVE the Quick Reply box. When the Reply to Thread screen comes up, follow the instructions on putting an image into your post.

Hope that helped.

Dagmartist
03-13-2011, 08:34 PM
Every lesson is treasure, Johannes.
Thank you so much for your generosity!! Love those extra tips yesterday and the demo today was awesome. I never would have chosen that difficult photo myself!
I spoke to my daughter on the phone soon after the class and she told me something you may find interesting. Because she has dyslexia, she first sees the negative areas of a painting. One more reason to make both negative and positive appealing.

debbieh
03-13-2011, 08:53 PM
Hi Johannes, I tried to upload a photo of the pastel that I painted, along with you, while you were doing the demo today, but ran into the "Newbie Blues." Since I had not posted yet, I could not add a photo. So, here I am posting, but would also like to let you know that I posted the photo on my blog. Taking your webinar is causing me to go back, and rethink many of the paintings I have done in the past. I really do see with new eyes. Thank you. Here's a link to my blog...or you can just wait until I'm not a Newbie anymore, and I will post it on WetCanvas.
http://debbiehardingart.blogspot.com/2011/03/painting-along-with-johannes.html

pjreads
03-13-2011, 09:05 PM
Could you explain further the reasons you said on Saturday that it would not work well to make the mountain a mid-light value like the sky in this mass-planning thumbnail sketch?

In other examples, you said that shapes could be distinguished by the range of values in each of the three value-groupings and by color (chroma).

Is it because colors don't show well in mid-light values (I think you said that somewhere)?

mass-planning thumbnail sketch (by LynnM)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2011/190233-lynnm8-115-Homework-March-6-mass-plan.jpg

reference landscape photo
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2011/190233-lynnm-100_0444.jpg

Yabut
03-13-2011, 09:34 PM
Johannes, you had just said, "I'm closing the video now," so I clicked to close mine too. Just as it was going off I hear, "For homework....." and never heard what you were about to tell us to do. I don't see anything posted here either. Could you fill me in on that please, or tell me where to look if you already posted it somewhere else. Thanks.

Yabut/Karen

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 09:34 PM
Every lesson is treasure, Johannes.
Thank you so much for your generosity!! Love those extra tips yesterday and the demo today was awesome. I never would have chosen that difficult photo myself!
I spoke to my daughter on the phone soon after the class and she told me something you may find interesting. Because she has dyslexia, she first sees the negative areas of a painting. One more reason to make both negative and positive appealing.
Now that is interesting. Even we are not conscious of it, the mind sees negative shapes with equal importance than positive because it needs to put the pieces together to make sense out of it.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 09:38 PM
Johannes, you had just said, "I'm closing the video now," so I clicked to close mine too. Just as it was going off I hear, "For homework....." and never heard what you were about to tell us to do. I don't see anything posted here either. Could you fill me in on that please, or tell me where to look if you already posted it somewhere else. Thanks.

Yabut/Karen
I will post about 10 reference photos and now I want you to do some paintings.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 09:41 PM
Could you explain further the reasons you said on Saturday that it would not work well to make the mountain a mid-light value like the sky in this mass-planning thumbnail sketch?

In other examples, you said that shapes could be distinguished by the range of values in each of the three value-groupings and by color (chroma).

Is it because colors don't show well in mid-light values (I think you said that somewhere)?

mass-planning thumbnail sketch (by LynnM)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2011/190233-lynnm8-115-Homework-March-6-mass-plan.jpg

reference landscape photo
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2011/190233-lynnm-100_0444.jpg
A light mid gray is too light to show the highlight on the mountain and if your sky is a light mid how will the viewer differentiate the mass? In one of the handouts there was a list of common values per landscape object and you will see that I indicated that a mountain highlight is normally a mid gray value. Light mid grays are usually reserved for rocks in highlight, skies, yellow ochre grass, snow in overcast days, etc.

sherrysherman
03-13-2011, 09:44 PM
Johannes, you had just said, "I'm closing the video now," so I clicked to close mine too. Just as it was going off I hear, "For homework....." and never heard what you were about to tell us to do. I don't see anything posted here either. Could you fill me in on that please, or tell me where to look if you already posted it somewhere else. Thanks.

Yabut/Karen
Karen, just in case Johannes doesn't get back to this thread soon.... he's going to post a bunch of photos and we are to "start painting" (presumably, AFTER doing a 3-value thumbnail).

Also presumably, redrawing shapes, repositioning and/or removing "things," and basically following all the rules, I mean guideline, we have been learning.

I don't know, but kind of figure he'll start a new thread, beginning with his uploaded photos, and then inviting us to post our forays.

EDITED ADDITION: I see he did answer you (while I was answering). And my answer matches his. That's always good.

Johannes Instructor
03-13-2011, 10:36 PM
It gives me pleasure to announce that "flowergram", who is a wetcanvas member is now part of my crew and she will assist me with answering your questions concerning wetcanvas operation procedures and other related quesions to help people find their way around these threads. Thanks a lot Georgina for taking some of the work load off my hands. I will be addressing the critiques and art related matters.

northbank
03-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Invited another artist who is known for her pastels over today to view the demo. She was very impressed and mentioned she'd love to take a class from Johannes. Unfortunately, a storm came in quickly and 60mph winds knocked out our internet before the session was over, though we got to see the 1st 2 hours of it. Looking forward to seeing the finished work posted so i can share it with her too. I am fairly new to watercolors and have never worked in pastels....it was like revealing a mystery plot to me. Beautifully executed. Thanks again for this wonderful experience.

Stephanie_Draws
03-14-2011, 11:07 AM
I looked everywhere, but so far have been unable to find the posted pictures for our homework-paintings. Have they not been posted yet? Or am I simply not able to find them? Has anyone seen the homework post yet?

Ruthie57
03-14-2011, 11:42 AM
Wow! This week's handouts are gems! really comprehensive and doubtless very useful. Thanks Johannes!

sherrysherman
03-14-2011, 11:54 AM
Wow! This week's handouts are gems! really comprehensive and doubtless very useful. Thanks Johanees!
I am in complete agreement. I was astounded at Sunday's. Recommended step-by-step procedure. Awesome. Who else would spend the time doing that for us?

LadyMadonna
03-14-2011, 12:01 PM
I extend my thanks as well to the time and expertise that Johannes so kindly offers to us each week.

Yabut
03-14-2011, 12:27 PM
I will post about 10 reference photos and now I want you to do some paintings.

I'm just itching to do this, though I doubt I'm as fast as some of the people in here as I do see that they have already posted new paintings following the 3 value method. Will you be posting the photos to a new thread, as Sherry suggested you might?

Yabut/Karen

Kumquat
03-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Does anyone know where to find the reference photo for the pastel demonstration that Johannes did yesterday? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to locate it although it must be here somewhere since he said he posted it. Thanks!

LadyMadonna
03-14-2011, 12:53 PM
I am looking for that too !!!

rizzok72
03-14-2011, 01:00 PM
Kumquat - I believe you are looking for this:

http://cyberartlearning.com/scene_from_oregon_coast.html

sherrysherman
03-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Does anyone know where to find the reference photo for the pastel demonstration that Johannes did yesterday? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to locate it although it must be here somewhere since he said he posted it. Thanks!
Page 12 of this thread, Post # 167.

(for reference, the post of yours that I am responding to is on page 15, post #213)

Laura2011
03-14-2011, 01:46 PM
Thank you Johannes and Kenneth (and the crew) for all your hard work. I can't imagine how much time you have all put into this. Loved the demo, really helps focus the lessons. Got kicked off the demo before I could express my thanks.

I wish I could say the same thing. I was kicked out of the demo, at the very beginning, restarted 3 times with no luck and was really sorry as I bought pastels (I do not paint in pastels) in order to paint along with Johannes. The curious thing was that I could still read the chat and was very surprised to see that nobody else complained of not being able to watch it??? Also the chat was completely useless to me as it was held mainly about nothingness and very little information from time to time from the experts witch they yes, were lucky enough to watch the video. I am really disappointed.

LynnM
03-14-2011, 01:53 PM
Laura, I found I had to put the password in twice, once to get to the screen, and then once again to get rid of the black screen. I couldn't type questions, though, until I registered with the site, and then I could get in.

Ruthie57
03-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Hard luck Laura. I feel for you. I had problems too. Was thrown out several times and one time it froze on me so I had to restart my computer. I found I could only view the chat in a separate window and then had to put in the password umpteen times to actually say something. I wondered if the chat effected the video stream in some way so, after re-booting, I came out of it all together. It was OK then until the end.

Laura2011
03-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Not the same for me. I kept trying. Shut the chat. Had to write the password several times, it kept kicking me out. I was angry as pastels were really expensive and don´t know how to use them. I assume this “technology thing” is selective. Hope to have better luck next time.

sherrysherman
03-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Not the same for me. I kept trying. Shut the chat. Had to write the password several times, it kept kicking me out. I was angry as pastels were really expensive and don´t know how to use them. I assume this “technology thing” is selective. Hope to have better luck next time.
That sounds really frustrating. And yes, pastels are expensive. I hope you decide to give them a go despite this setback. (Even if you watch J, it's like any medium - you just have to go for it and learn as you use them.)

pixieartist
03-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Hi Laura2011, :) Yes I had troubles too getting in, well, the screen said I was on, but was black at first before the actual 'class':( . Also the chat space was there. When I tried to chat with a question, the chat space disappeared!!!:confused: I had been on the webinar at the same time as first getting into the 'demo/video space', so when Johannes said to close the webinar/shut it down, I reluctantly did so, because I know if anything is to go wrong, IT WILL!!! and it apparently did:crying: . Yes I'm very disappointed too, for missing the whole thing:crying: . I am hoping I can benefit as much, if possible, as if I had seen it. Will need to do more homework, I guess to catch up:thumbsup: !! I had even gone home to get my 'cheapy' pastels (I still have the very first set I got when I was 12!!!! Reeves brand, probably very student grade!!!) I would like to get a good set in a wooden box like what I had seen on the thread...Art Supplies Anonymus..(well, something like that) robertsloan2 was one of the artists on that thread talking about how he was able to get good deals from specific places...Perhaps he and the other artists on that thread have special privileges for trying out art products???? Since I live too far away to get to any major centres, I go without and wish I had them!!! :lol: (cheaper that way, in the long run!)

It is easy to start with pastels...the dry ones are similar to chalk, like we used to use on the chalk boards. They do need a slighly rougher surface to have something to stick too. I have bought some pastel paper 'pads' as well as a charcoal paper booklet. I have also used watercolor paper!!! First in a class with a pastelist intructor who also does watercolors. She showed us how to take that watercolor paper, mix some acrylic paint and a bit of pumice stirred together well, but carefully so you do not breathe in any pumice, then paint the surface of the watercolor paper. Let it dry. Then get started with the pastels!!! The second time was a year ago to paint a bush bunny...background was w/c paint on 300 lb Rough Gemini paper, then the bush bunny in pastels. It was fun to do:thumbsup: , especially since the bunny's coat never changes to white in the winter, and this one seemed like he was waiting for spring to come and warm up his territory!:thumbsup:
I start usually when I paint with watercolor(w/c) at the top of the page and 'at the back' of the pic. I want to 'copy/portray. ie: the sky is the furthest away from me, so paint it first. Probably pretty much the same with pastels. Also, lightest to darkest with w/c, and I seem to do the same with other mediums. Pastel??? If I need to highlight the tops of the trees in a sunset pic, I added the bright orange or yellowy color after doing the tops of the trees in a dark color (they were in silhouette!) Seemed to work ok, but I still feel I am a new painter, not very good, probably based on my Art Club...They are very good artistically, some a bunch older, a few not too much older, but all painting for a lot longer than I. When I share photos of my work, people seem to really like them, but I haven't sold too many...only 2 so far!!!
Anyway, I hope we can keep in touch. Just have at it in regards to your pastels:thumbsup: . Oh you might want to use those thin plastic? gloves similar to what the nurses use, to help keep your fingers/hands clean:thumbsup: . Also, get a box of rice flour (I had an old box I didn't want to use for shortbread, it was that old!!!) Anyway, put it in a plastic container with a good tight fitting lid, or even a ziplock (that might get a hole in too easy, though) and use it to clean your pastels after they get dusty with other colors etc. Works great for me, I did one color at a time but try not to rub too hard. (I think we were told to just shake the bunch around in the container, but mine were very dirty yesterday!) The more expensive ones seem very soft compared to my 'beginner' ones and you don't want to waste too much!!! Good luck, Happy painting!:thumbsup: , take care, and hope to hear from you soon!!! Pixieartist:wave:

SalzburgBJ
03-14-2011, 03:15 PM
Hey everybody, am I alone in my impatience??? (Doubt it!) :wave:
This is the 5th time I've visited the site today, hunting in vain for a link or a new thread offering Johannes's promised "10 photos" for us to use as a basis for a painting.

Or am I overlooking something? WetCanvas can be so convoluted, I get lost sometimes.

If Jo doesn't post something (or somebody doesn't point me in the right direction) soon, I'll be "forced" to try another of Jo's suggestions: copying a painting by Scott Christensen as valuable practice. I spent part of the day today drawing thumbnails of my favorite Aspevig's too.

Johannes! Help! :clap: :clap:

winecountry
03-14-2011, 03:27 PM
Not the same for me. I kept trying. Shut the chat. Had to write the password several times, it kept kicking me out. I was angry as pastels were really expensive and don´t know how to use them. I assume this “technology thing” is selective. Hope to have better luck next time.

Just to add some perspective here, its unfortunate that you didn't see the demo, but not the end of the world of pastel for you. Johannes is a great teacher, the medium is not the message tho, his principals are and the medium is secondary. So there will be a tape eventually you can see, or you can use Roberts notes, which I have done when I missed a class and they work well, I have done an entire exercise from his notes.

I also want to point you to the soft pastel forums (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18), where there are lots of demos and help for beginners. There are 2 places over there, one for chat and discussion and one for actual work, called Soft Pastel Studio. Starting with something simpler than the one Jo chose would serve you, and over there are many great and generous teachers and artists. I learned everything I know about pastels from people there, I'd not used them as a media before I joined WC. They taught me well and were so encouraging. They must have done a good job as I've won several national and international placements for my pastels. So go over and start a thread asking for whatever help you need. IMO pastels are the easiest media for beginners, so if you can paint at all you will not have any trouble with them, if you are a beginner painter, no worry pastel gets you results faster than oil or watercolor.

As I said I'd not try the one he chose for a first piece, but if you must, maybe this will help, they are screen shots of the block in, the rest was just adding more details and refining the melodic lines, getting rid of clones etc
the very beginning you can see his drawing
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2011/103030-MASS_VALUES_BLOCK_IN_start.jpg

the next full coverage.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2011/103030-mass_block_in_1.jpg

Johannes blends colors by putting one over the other and rubbing them into each other with his fingers, I use pipe foam insulation for the same purpose cut in small sizes, either works.

That's my 2 cents....:)

Johannes Instructor
03-14-2011, 03:56 PM
I looked everywhere, but so far have been unable to find the posted pictures for our homework-paintings. Have they not been posted yet? Or am I simply not able to find them? Has anyone seen the homework post yet?
I haven't done it yet.

Colorix
03-14-2011, 04:34 PM
Oh, if you missed the pastel demo, the Pastel forum here at WC has everything and anything with, for, and about pastel painting. Lots of advice on the technical aspects of using the medium. How to fixate (or not), what kind of paper to use, coloured papers, white papers, smooth papers, sandpapers. Wet underpaintings (water, alcohol, oils, gouache), dry underpaintings, what to blend with, if to blend at all. Framing, matting, how many sticks you need of which brands (or how few) -- everything! And the pastel people love to help, a very nice crowd.

BarbB
03-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Just a quick note to everyone who has had problems with their computers. When was the last time you "tossed your cookies"? This term means when was the last time that you, depending on your operating system, while online, went into TOOLS; INTERNET OPTIONS OR OPTIONS; and deleted all of your temporary internet files and other items? After that, you should click on START located on the bottom left of your screen, ALL PROGRAMS; ACCESSORIES; SYSTEM TOOLS and run first the DISK CLEAN UP and then the DISK DEFRAGMENTOR. This will get rid of files that are in the back ground that the computer uses to ... do computer stuff. I can't guarentee that this will help everyone, but it may help someone. I also recommend doing this once a week. I have never been kicked out of any of the sessions to include the live demo. I am using a 10 year old computer with an OS of XP Pro. If you have any other questions, do what I did, find a teenager. Hahaha.
Barb

kittierue
03-14-2011, 05:01 PM
First: I don't recall paying for this course. I also don't recall being told I MUST purchase certain items for the course.

Second: The instructor has no control over Ustream. You need to remember that he's an instructor, not a computer programmer.

Third: We all are frustrated by different things. Keep it to yourself. Nobody is forcing you to attend.

Fourth: I, too, had problems at the beginning with Ustream. I had to read the instructions, put the password "pigment" in twice and then in order to "chat" I had to sign up for a free account. AGAIN, not J's problem!!!! He's the instructor and he's doing his best to feed all of us whiny babies the best way possible.

Fifth: If you aren't on a cable modem, you may not experience good performance, especially when the web server is attempting to serve high definition video to >1000 people over the internet. An analogy to what was being accomplished is this: Picture a fire on the other side of town. The fire department has a hose with a fixed size opening. In order to get to the fire, the water has to go to the town next to you, serve the residents there, cross back to another state, then up to Canada, over to Europe, then maybe through California before it ends up at the fire across town. That's pretty much how the internet works.

Sixth: If you got kicked off, then buy the dvd for $10. Even I can afford $10!!!

Seventh: IT'S FREE, QUIT WHINING!!!!

Eighth: GOOGLE is a wonderful tool. Type a question, "why is ustream kicking me off?" See what happens. Think. Even as artists, we need to use the logical mind. Use it, it's probably dying for some activity.

Ruthie57
03-14-2011, 05:10 PM
Barb, I do all that regularly but, yes, it could help some people.
Kittie, You talking to me? I wasn't "whining", just sympathising with a person who didn't get to see the live demo. I understand how frustrating that must have been. Of course we can buy it in several weeks time but thta's not the same as seeing it live. I find some of your comments inappropriate.

kittierue
03-14-2011, 05:29 PM
Ruthie: Oh gosh, no!! I whine with the best!!!! :-)

It just seems that sometimes we get all caught up in our worlds and forget how to assign responsibility for our stuff to ourselves.

Some of the worst experiences I've had was while doing something free for a client.

Nope, not talking to anyone in particular, except the gal who sounded like she should be reimbursed for buying pastels that aren't cheap.

And plus, all you all over across the pond have it even harder, due to the ocean and all. Don't know how to improve you alls performance. Maybe log in an hour early, that's what I do.

flowergram
03-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Let's all play nice, this is a very large sandbox with many different personalities. Don't take anything personal.

Laura2011
03-14-2011, 05:33 PM
[quote=kittierue]First: I don't recall paying for this course. I also don't recall being told I MUST purchase certain items for the course.

Second: The instructor has no control over Ustream. You need to remember that he's an instructor, not a computer programmer................................"


I thank you for your input, however the tone of your answer is incommensurate to my post.

I was merely expressing my disappointment at not being able to watch a class in which I was very interested.

Happy painting everyone!.

karan55
03-14-2011, 05:49 PM
Hey everybody, am I alone in my impatience??? (Doubt it!) :wave:
This is the 5th time I've visited the site today, hunting in vain for a link or a new thread offering Johannes's promised "10 photos" for us to use as a basis for a painting.

Or am I overlooking something? WetCanvas can be so convoluted, I get lost sometimes.

If Jo doesn't post something (or somebody doesn't point me in the right direction) soon, I'll be "forced" to try another of Jo's suggestions: copying a painting by Scott Christensen as valuable practice. I spent part of the day today drawing thumbnails of my favorite Aspevig's too.

Johannes! Help! :clap: :clap:



If you look in the WC Reference Library you will find some landscape pictures that are are really nice to apply our new found wisdom to. I found 2 that I am doing thumbnails for today. They are very similar to some of Johannes's pictures.

BarbB
03-14-2011, 06:02 PM
Wow, I was only trying to give some helpful hints on what could be a problem with computers and trying to keep it in a "up-beat" tone. Sometimes, when we type, it is hard to try to tell what emotions are coming through. We could be typing with a happy face and meaning well and the readers don't get your message. Kittierue, that was really an inappropiate responce. I realize that you were venting, we all vent, but I feel that you need to apologize to those that you attacked directly. Critisism is only good when it is constructive, and again, how it is delivered.
Barb

winecountry
03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Wow, I was only trying to give some helpful hints on what could be a problem with computers and trying to keep it in a "up-beat" tone. Sometimes, when we type, it is hard to try to tell what emotions are coming through. We could be typing with a happy face and meaning well and the readers don't get your message. Kittierue, that was really an inappropiate responce. I realize that you were venting, we all vent, but I feel that you need to apologize to those that you attacked directly. Critisism is only good when it is constructive, and again, how it is delivered.
Barb

Well said Barb, and Ruthie makes the point too. This is not the place for personal attacks and that is what is inappropriate Kittie and where your post steps over the line IMO, tho I had some of the same feelings, you'll notice I tried to put them in a way that was not judgmental and offered some help,

I'm sure you had the intent to be helpful and to point out the kind of amazing support we are all getting from Johannes, and to change what you may call whining and complaining, when gratitude is what we all feel, however if we don't want to create forum police like the rest of WC it's up to us to keep our comments clean of personal attacks, yours is the first of this kind I've ever seen here and I hope its the last.

When any of us get upset over comments, we can remember that we are all here for the same reason, no matter what our level of artistic or personal development. By keeping a civil and considerate tone we can have a forum that teaches by example how to live peacefully in such a diverse group. Maybe by finding that out here we can help the whole world, in some small way, to learn to live together

flowergirl
03-14-2011, 07:17 PM
Do we have the photos for homework for this week yet. Sorry, I never know where to look!
Sharon

susanc
03-14-2011, 08:56 PM
Do we have the photos for homework for this week yet. Sorry, I never know where to look!
Sharon
Yes! Check them out here--
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925053

A new thread for week 7 is now open here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=925023

The list of all Johannes' class-related threads is here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=522

Another easy way to find that list is to scroll up near the top of this page. On the left side look for these words:
WetCanvas > Explore Subjects > Landscapes > Partner: WetCanvas Live!
Click on the words: Partner: WetCanvas Live! and there's the list!

Obion
03-14-2011, 09:18 PM
Go to http://wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=522
6th down - Reference Photos for Homework
Johannes Instructor painting - home work started: 03-14-2011

kittierue
03-14-2011, 10:12 PM
I wasn't attacking, I was speaking in my business voice. Johannes is an instructor not a computer programmer. All the posts complaining about not getting in, and being very pointed about the inconvenience just hit me as complaining.

I am in no way exempting myself from my mini-lecture.

I apologize if anyone felt that I was attacking. sometimes we feel like we get to complain, not every complaint needs to be aired. That's my complaint.

Otherwise, everything's copasetic for me. Peace out:wave: .

Wow, I was only trying to give some helpful hints on what could be a problem with computers and trying to keep it in a "up-beat" tone. Sometimes, when we type, it is hard to try to tell what emotions are coming through. We could be typing with a happy face and meaning well and the readers don't get your message. Kittierue, that was really an inappropiate responce. I realize that you were venting, we all vent, but I feel that you need to apologize to those that you attacked directly. Critisism is only good when it is constructive, and again, how it is delivered.
Barb

kittierue
03-14-2011, 10:14 PM
It wasn't personal. wow. I guess I need to really not talk. So sorry.

My intent obviously wasn't understood. pax.:heart:

Well said Barb, and Ruthie makes the point too. This is not the place for personal attacks and that is what is inappropriate Kittie and where your post steps over the line IMO, tho I had some of the same feelings, you'll notice I tried to put them in a way that was not judgmental and offered some help,

I'm sure you had the intent to be helpful and to point out the kind of amazing support we are all getting from Johannes, and to change what you may call whining and complaining, when gratitude is what we all feel, however if we don't want to create forum police like the rest of WC it's up to us to keep our comments clean of personal attacks, yours is the first of this kind I've ever seen here and I hope its the last.

When any of us get upset over comments, we can remember that we are all here for the same reason, no matter what our level of artistic or personal development. By keeping a civil and considerate tone we can have a forum that teaches by example how to live peacefully in such a diverse group. Maybe by finding that out here we can help the whole world, in some small way, to learn to live together

kittierue
03-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Oh my gosh! I'm about the rudest person in the world! I am so sorry for everything I said that offended any body on the forum. I have no excuse and take full responsibility. Please forgive me, I'm sure I'll probably open my big fat yap again, so I can't say I won't do it again.

I wasn't venting, I was tired of complaints. But, there's no good reason or excuse or explanation for making a point of emphasizing a free lecture series. I ended up being one of the people who I abhore.

Probably shouldn't be on the computer with 3 hours of sleep... Again, not an excuse.

Kumquat
03-15-2011, 02:00 AM
Thank you so much, Steve. It's just what I was looking for.
Marsha

Ruthie57
03-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Kittie....:wave: :thumbsup:

winecountry
03-16-2011, 11:51 AM
Kittie....:wave: :thumbsup:
ditto:)

*Deirdre*
03-17-2011, 09:35 AM
I have new homework for you. This is probably one of the most fun homework you will ever do. I want you to watch a children's movie called, "The Princess and the Frog" released in 2009. I want you to pay attention to how the artists achieved a 3D look with harder edges against softer edges ( 3 layers of edges hard, soft and more diffused, three layers of backgrounds). Also notice the warm vs. cool colors and the negative shapes between the trees and positive shapes. You will also see depth achieved by gradating the values. You will notice that the artwork acheives a 3D illusion that normal 2D movie photography shooting can never achieve as far as the feeling of depth. You can tell how the artist keeps your eyes in the inside of the screen by subduing the corners and sides. (no fly zone). These same techniques you can apply to your paintings. All the points I mentioned in how to create a 3D look in my web class are evident in this movie. If you want you can report back to me after you see the movie. By the way I had a contract once to teach in one of the best colleges which produces many graduates that are hired in Disney to do their artwork.
I got my copy today...shall find it useful for my grandchildren....but saw your point re depth and how to achieve it.

vapsman88
03-17-2011, 03:57 PM
@kittierue,
I totally agree with your frustration, though I probably wouldn't have had the courage to state it.
I also think everything you said is true, and I think many people may agree with it as well.

I grew up in a household where the motto was "No Whiners", so there you go.

~John

vapsman88
03-17-2011, 04:04 PM
A new book was authored recently by Catherine Gill and published by NorthLight:
Powerful Watercolor Landscapes (http://www.fwbookstore.com/product/powerful-watercolor-landscapes/north-light)

The book is aimed at Watercolor artists and discusses shapes as well. She also published an article in Dec 2010 Watercolor Artist called "Shape up your shapes".
Here is a free PDF excerpt from the book:
http://www.artistsnetwork.com/article/value-sketch-solutions/?r=wcasshm100610

~John

sylvia
03-17-2011, 04:35 PM
WHAT IS THE BEST AND EASIEST WAY FOR ME TO ADVISE A PAINTER WHO WISHES TO JOIN YOUR GROWING GROUP OF ARTISTS ON HOW SHE WOULD SIGN UP FOR YOUR COURSE AFTER JOINING WET CANVAS???
pHYLLIS

Ruthie57
03-17-2011, 04:40 PM
Sylvia, tell her to go to this thread http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879282

Johannes Instructor
03-17-2011, 05:10 PM
The book is aimed at Watercolor artists and discusses shapes as well. She also published an article in Dec 2010 Watercolor Artist called "Shape up your shapes".
Here is a free PDF excerpt from the book:
http://www.artistsnetwork.com/article/value-sketch-solutions/?r=wcasshm100610

~John[/quote]

I have not read this book but by her artist magazine insert she knows what she is talking about that. In view of this I am placing a purchase link for you so you can get a 10% off and so F&W knows the purchase came from my part.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Mar-2011/135220-Z6132.jpg

Click on this link to purchase
http://www.northlightshop.com/product/powerful-watercolor-landscapes/?r=WCLIVEJV&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Improve%20my%20Paintings&cid=k352105

Remember if you type in WCLIVE in the apply code slot an inch below you get 10% off. If you spend more than $25 on books you get free shipping.