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Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 02:33 PM
Use this thread for the week from February 21 to 27.

Jon
02-21-2011, 03:30 PM
I just watched your news story at youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFQGSoGUNmA) which you posted earlier; a very nice piece.

Colorix
02-21-2011, 03:51 PM
Johannes, PMed you with the link for info.

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 04:07 PM
Johannes, PMed you with the link for info.

yes I read it now we know what happened. That explains everything. Once we hit 1000 viewers is starts shutting people down out of the country so they pay. I believe the price was $1.99 for the whole one day. That is very low and still worth it isn't it?

just having fun
02-21-2011, 05:31 PM
Thank so much for your the watercolor demo, I learned a lot from you. I started painting in watercolor last year at 67 years old. Maybe you will do a watercolor class in the future?. Everett:wave:

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 05:35 PM
Thank so much for your the watercolor demo, I learned a lot from you. I started painting in watercolor last year at 67 years old. Maybe you will do a watercolor class in the future?. Everett:wave:

What I am teaching with the online classes works for all mediums.

tuscanni
02-21-2011, 05:43 PM
What I am teaching with the online classes works for all mediums.
Johannes....I thought I read that you were going to be working with pastels this next class, is this true? Will you be doing another live demo?
ann

Artist1948
02-21-2011, 05:53 PM
I have been painting for 30 + years. Watercolor/oil/pastel Oil is my favorite and watercolor a close second. These classes and demo have been wonderful. We never stop learning. Can't wait until next week and warm weather here in Ohio so I can get out of my studio and paint. Love the class hope they will continue.
Judy Mason, Ohio

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 06:20 PM
Johannes....I thought I read that you were going to be working with pastels this next class, is this true? Will you be doing another live demo?
ann
Not next class. The next demo I will use pastels

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 06:51 PM
Wanna see something neat? Even still life fruits when done by a master are abstract and with different sides so they don't fall into symmetry. So if a still life artist does it much more a landscape artist should do it.
http://westwindfineart.com/richard/richardpaintingpage.htm
The painting is called "Richard's Flight"
Also check this still life
http://westwindfineart.com/nancy/nancypaintingpage.htm

essie89
02-21-2011, 07:50 PM
Johannes--I found the Q&A's to the questions you weren't able to answer during class for Jan.29-30 and for Feb. 5-6. Are there Q&A's similar to these for Feb. 12-13 and Feb. 19-20? If so where are they and how do I access them?

robertsloan2
02-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Johannes, thank you for the links and posting the finale of your gorgeous watercolor painting on the old thread. It was a wonderful demo! Your painting is spectacular and at every stage I could see how you were using the water so well. Watercolor demands really understanding how wet any given passage is and what will happen if you put color into it. I'm only now starting to get somewhere with it after a lifetime of trying it, so that demo filled some huge gaps for me. Thank you!

Thanks to everyone who enjoyed my notes. I'm going to say it again - try doing little thumbnail sketches of what he's doing during a demo or class. It's helped me so much, no matter how much everyone else gets out of my notes, I think I get the most out of them by doing the little sketches.

The principles do apply to every medium. I've tried them in oil sticks when Johannes never even picked one up and the painting came out well - the difference from my actual first oil stick painting is literally night and day. It's not perfect, I'm sure everyone will find flaws to critique in it. But compared to my first one it's a great painting.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2011/70184-2-21-2011-Old-Oil-Stick-Poppy-Painting.jpg
The orange poppy painting that I disliked more the longer I watched the poor thing dry. Fortunately I only wasted an 80 cent canvas board doing it with oil sticks, primed it with Colourfix sanded pastel primer to give it more tooth. Done in 2010 before the first class with Johannes. Sorry it's not a landscape, but it's the only painting I did with that medium at all. A first effort. The composition - ouch. That's all I can say for it.

Then I did this a few days ago in the same medium. No practice with the oil sticks between the ghastly orange poppy and this landscape. None. Just the classes and what I've learned.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2011/70184-2-17-2011-Oyster-Creek-RFps-painting.jpg
Photo reference from the February Oil Pastel Challenge by halthepainter. Oil sticks on canvas board, 5" x 7" (even less space!) no extra sanded primer.

One of the big differences is watching Johannes paint, because I handled the oil sticks more like tube oils when I wanted more detail. I pushed color around with a rubber tool and mixed colors on the palette but not as thoroughly as I used to mix colors. I tried marbling them and then lifted gobs of it with the little rubber tool to swipe it where I wanted it, picking up more with every stroke or two.

It is spooky how much my compositions have improved. I know I can do better than this too - I'm spotting problems in the new one now but I know next time I'll do even better. If I keep doing these little studies on canvas boards I can move up to better canvases - and if one comes out well I can always paint it again, that's another thing I'm taking from his classes. Nothing wrong with redoing a good subject if I was doing it on practice materials.

tuscanni
02-21-2011, 09:25 PM
Wanna see something neat? Even still life fruits when done by a master are abstract and with different sides so they don't fall into symmetry. So if a still life artist does it much more a landscape artist should do it.
http://westwindfineart.com/richard/richardpaintingpage.htm
The painting is called "Richard's Flight"
Also check this still life
http://westwindfineart.com/nancy/nancypaintingpage.htm
what a gorgeous still life, I love the bold colors and use of abstract shapes. Wouldnt some people say, " that bowls crooked, its supposed to be round". I suppose other artists wouldnt say that, but Joe Q Public may say so. I guess part of me would insist on making the bowl edge round, so I wouldnt look like an idiot painting a crooked dish. I guess a true artist makes his/her own world and to heck with what others say.
ann

tuscanni
02-21-2011, 09:30 PM
Not next class. The next demo I will use pastels
WHEW!! thank goodness, I was worried there. I am new to pastels (not new to painting, been painting in oils and acrylics for 30 years) and could use some guidence, other then from books. I am going to be out of town this weekend and I didnt want to miss a pastel demo.
I cant say it enough....thanks for all you are doing to help other artists, me included.
ann

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 10:17 PM
Johannes, thank you for the links and posting the finale of your gorgeous watercolor painting on the old thread. It was a wonderful demo! Your painting is spectacular and at every stage I could see how you were using the water so well. Watercolor demands really understanding how wet any given passage is and what will happen if you put color into it. I'm only now starting to get somewhere with it after a lifetime of trying it, so that demo filled some huge gaps for me. Thank you!

Thanks to everyone who enjoyed my notes. I'm going to say it again - try doing little thumbnail sketches of what he's doing during a demo or class. It's helped me so much, no matter how much everyone else gets out of my notes, I think I get the most out of them by doing the little sketches.

The principles do apply to every medium. I've tried them in oil sticks when Johannes never even picked one up and the painting came out well - the difference from my actual first oil stick painting is literally night and day. It's not perfect, I'm sure everyone will find flaws to critique in it. But compared to my first one it's a great painting.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2011/70184-2-21-2011-Old-Oil-Stick-Poppy-Painting.jpg
The orange poppy painting that I disliked more the longer I watched the poor thing dry. Fortunately I only wasted an 80 cent canvas board doing it with oil sticks, primed it with Colourfix sanded pastel primer to give it more tooth. Done in 2010 before the first class with Johannes. Sorry it's not a landscape, but it's the only painting I did with that medium at all. A first effort. The composition - ouch. That's all I can say for it.

Then I did this a few days ago in the same medium. No practice with the oil sticks between the ghastly orange poppy and this landscape. None. Just the classes and what I've learned.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2011/70184-2-17-2011-Oyster-Creek-RFps-painting.jpg
Photo reference from the February Oil Pastel Challenge by halthepainter. Oil sticks on canvas board, 5" x 7" (even less space!) no extra sanded primer.

One of the big differences is watching Johannes paint, because I handled the oil sticks more like tube oils when I wanted more detail. I pushed color around with a rubber tool and mixed colors on the palette but not as thoroughly as I used to mix colors. I tried marbling them and then lifted gobs of it with the little rubber tool to swipe it where I wanted it, picking up more with every stroke or two.

It is spooky how much my compositions have improved. I know I can do better than this too - I'm spotting problems in the new one now but I know next time I'll do even better. If I keep doing these little studies on canvas boards I can move up to better canvases - and if one comes out well I can always paint it again, that's another thing I'm taking from his classes. Nothing wrong with redoing a good subject if I was doing it on practice materials.
Looking at your bottom painting, it's is designed in an abstract way. Notice how all shapes are varied. However your flower has two cloned concave indentations.

Johannes Instructor
02-21-2011, 10:20 PM
what a gorgeous still life, I love the bold colors and use of abstract shapes. Wouldnt some people say, " that bowls crooked, its supposed to be round". I suppose other artists wouldnt say that, but Joe Q Public may say so. I guess part of me would insist on making the bowl edge round, so I wouldnt look like an idiot painting a crooked dish. I guess a true artist makes his/her own world and to heck with what others say.
ann

It s all about making forms entertaining, not real.

Colorix
02-22-2011, 04:19 AM
yes I read it now we know what happened. That explains everything. Once we hit 1000 viewers is starts shutting people down out of the country so they pay. I believe the price was $1.99 for the whole one day. That is very low and still worth it isn't it?

Numbers:
They kick people out when there are 250+ viewers, and 500+ -- not 1000. (Happened in December or early January.)

Terms:
The terms of service say basically "you pay, and we're under no obligation to deliver what you paid for". Truly amazing, obviously one can say anything in 'terms' as nobody reads them.

Where:
The 'rules' were found in their support-forum, not on their site. 'Rule' was listed by one of their customers.

Price vs Cost:
The price is low, but that is not the issue -- the issue is what it may cost me. Of course it is up to each person what they choose to do, but I will not give my credit card info to them. Ever.

allydoodle
02-22-2011, 09:45 AM
Price vs Cost:
The price is low, but that is not the issue -- the issue is what it may cost me. Of course it is up to each person what they choose to do, but I will not give my credit card info to them. Ever.
__________________
Charlie



I'm from the US and I agree with Charlie, something's not right with this. I wouldn't give out my credit card info either. I am very careful about when and how I use my CC online, and it wouldn't be there (in fact, it's very rare that I do use my CC online). It seems a shame that people are getting booted off at such low numbers, 250 - 500 doesn't seem like many, considering the possibilities. I'm no computer whiz, but I'm wondering if there are other options, competition is a good thing.......

domeland
02-22-2011, 11:03 AM
"Next time I am providing a separate window apart from that screen so they chat away."

Thank you. I found the chat distracting . I guess I could have gone to full screen but I was looking for the questions. I found myself getting lost in all that was occurring.
Thank you for all the wonderful instruction. I have learned a lot. I was discouraged from painting more than thirty years ago by an art instructor who told me I didn't have what it took to be an artist. Your instruction has opened the doors for me again. I was using the wrong side of the brain. :thumbsup:

LynnM
02-22-2011, 01:16 PM
I agree about the distraction of the chat, trying to sort out the questions, I am glad you have fixed that, Johannes.

From my comment in the last thread:
"On the technical side, I had the same problems when I first watched your demos. I couldn't create an account from your JustinTV site. So I went to their main site of justintv.com, and created an account there...no cost or anything. Then I am automatically logged in when I follow your link, and I don't have any problems now. I don't know how that would work for other countries"

Rosemarie
02-22-2011, 01:48 PM
The same goes for me. I had earlier created an account so when the irritating messages popped up I logged in on my account and didn't get the message anymore.

Johannes Instructor
02-22-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm from the US and I agree with Charlie, something's not right with this. I wouldn't give out my credit card info either. I am very careful about when and how I use my CC online, and it wouldn't be there (in fact, it's very rare that I do use my CC online). It seems a shame that people are getting booted off at such low numbers, 250 - 500 doesn't seem like many, considering the possibilities. I'm no computer whiz, but I'm wondering if there are other options, competition is a good thing.......

Next time I will use ustream. That way you don't pay but there is a little ad that pops up from time to time that you can click to close. Check it yourself. See what you think. Watch any video on ustream.com

mtnrunner
02-22-2011, 05:15 PM
This might be a random question now, but I' ve been wondering all along.
How do you pronounce your last name? Can you sort of spell it out phonetically for me?

And secondly, perhaps more art related, what kind of watercolor brushes do you recommend as basic supplies?

sherrysherman
02-22-2011, 05:18 PM
This might be a random question now, but I' ve been wondering all along.
How do you pronounce your last name? Can you sort of spell it out phonetically for me?


Someone asked this on the chat at one of the demos, and I wrote "Float-house," and the person laughed, commenting how funny I was. :) But that's it, really!

Amandine
02-22-2011, 07:31 PM
If I may ask Johannes, is there a reason why you don't follow the syllabus you submitted in January ? We had cropping as planned for lesson 2 but after that ... ...
Amandine

mtnrunner
02-22-2011, 07:51 PM
Someone asked this on the chat at one of the demos, and I wrote "Float-house," and the person laughed, commenting how funny I was. :) But that's it, really!



Thanks, Sherry!

Nansketch
02-22-2011, 08:19 PM
First, I would like to thank Robert for wonderful notes -- I was traveling over the weekend and missed both sessions -- but your notes really helped. I even think I will be able to try the homework.

Also, I watched a couple of videos on ustream.com -- this looks like a good option. The ads are not much of a problem - when I first opened a video, I saw a 30 second ad, then during the video a window opened at the bottom of the screen but that can be closed. The quality was good but will probably be determined by the origin set up -- shouldn't be a problem for JV transmission.
Looking forward to Saturday!!!
Nancy

Grainne
02-22-2011, 08:36 PM
I would just like to say that I consider that the syllabus has been beautifully presented to date, and we have been given much more than I had expected.

As one of those who have been in the webinars and demonstrations from the very beginning back last December, I had wondered at first how much more could be said about everything we had already been ably taught. But as the composition class began, I have been so pleasantly surprised at how much more in depth Johannes has been able to take us, layer upon layer.

As an educator myself, I understand, perhaps to an extent that the layperson does not completely understand, the value of repetition in the mastery of anything being learned. That’s the beauty of the experience Johannes is patiently taking us through. He is willing to teach each nugget again and again, each time with new examples and illustrations, so that not one of us is left behind if we are willing to hang with him and apply ourselves. Sometimes the wise instructor cannot move on if he or she feels that the class has not yet mastered a concept. To keep to a syllabus too rigidly in that case would be to the detriment of the students.

As I said, to my way of thinking the syllabus has been followed, each promised point been taught, albeit in a very organic way which is lively and interesting.

Plus we’ve had the wonderful painting demos thrown in for good measure! :clap: :thumbsup:


Grainne ("Kaye")

winecountry
02-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Here is some interesting scientific support for the No Fly Zone concept

Below you will see a painting by a Russian artist, A. L Yarbus. and below that is the track of the eyes of a view who looked at it for 10 min....there were sensors on contacts in the eyes of the viewer.

I'm totally engrossed in book I found at a book sale that is IMO a must have read. Vision and Art: The Biology of Seeing (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=art+and+vision&x=0&y=0) I promise you will be completely amazed if you can get through it, written by a neurobiologist and a post doc who's an artist, it has, in plain language, some fascinating science of vision that pertains to art and artists painting. You can get one for under $10 used ....

Besides explaining the reason the Mona Lisa's smile is so mysterious(REALLY interesting) page 78 has this

Yarbus found that the subjects tended to look most at those parts of the picture that contained high-contrast and fine detail as well as items of biological significance (like humans), It must be that our peripheral vision picks out those areas of the visual scene with high detail and contrast or potential interest and sends a messae to the eye-movement system to plan the next eye movement so that the fovea lands on a part of the visual scene that is rich in information


now you know the why of some of what J says, but I found it so interesting that the eye never went into the nfz which the artist had kept quiet but still it has some things to see, notice that the left to right scan went a bit to the right side...What do you suppose was a cue to keep going back to the dark places behind the trees, looking for tiger maybe.....no it is the contrast there.

what would the tracks look like on your painting?

vapsman88
02-22-2011, 10:25 PM
I just watched your news story at youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFQGSoGUNmA) which you posted earlier; a very nice piece.

Jon,

Thanks for posting the link to that interview segment on the News. It was a very moving piece.

~John

vapsman88
02-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Johannes,

I wanted to thank you for these classes, they are so fantastic. Between your excellent teaching and Carl Purcell's book, I have learned more about composition and really seeing what I am drawing/painting than in any classes I have taken over the last 20 years.


~John

vapsman88
02-22-2011, 10:37 PM
Here is a link to a forum on JustinTV talking about the "We've reached the maximum number of feeds for your country."
http://community.justin.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=580&highlight=paying+streams

Also I believe they accept Paypal if that helps people that don't want to give their CC info.


~John

Johannes Instructor
02-22-2011, 11:50 PM
Here is some interesting scientific support for the No Fly Zone concept

Below you will see a painting by a Russian artist, A. L Yarbus. and below that is the track of the eyes of a view who looked at it for 10 min....there were sensors on contacts in the eyes of the viewer.

I'm totally engrossed in book I found at a book sale that is IMO a must have read. Vision and Art: The Biology of Seeing (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=art+and+vision&x=0&y=0) I promise you will be completely amazed if you can get through it, written by a neurobiologist and a post doc who's an artist, it has, in plain language, some fascinating science of vision that pertains to art and artists painting. You can get one for under $10 used ....

Besides explaining the reason the Mona Lisa's smile is so mysterious(REALLY interesting) page 78 has this



now you know the why of some of what J says, but I found it so interesting that the eye never went into the nfz which the artist had kept quiet but still it has some things to see, notice that the left to right scan went a bit to the right side...What do you suppose was a cue to keep going back to the dark places behind the trees, looking for tiger maybe.....no it is the contrast there.

what would the tracks look like on your painting?

Now I find this article extremely interesting and yes it does validate even the exact margins I mentioned. This is the best article I have read in a long time.

Johannes Instructor
02-22-2011, 11:52 PM
This might be a random question now, but I' ve been wondering all along.
How do you pronounce your last name? Can you sort of spell it out phonetically for me?

And secondly, perhaps more art related, what kind of watercolor brushes do you recommend as basic supplies?
I like synthetic brushes and I use square head ones because that way I get better abstract shapes. Round brushes give me too many concaves.
Float house is close enough

Johannes Instructor
02-22-2011, 11:54 PM
I would just like to say that I consider that the syllabus has been beautifully presented to date, and we have been given much more than I had expected.

As one of those who have been in the webinars and demonstrations from the very beginning back last December, I had wondered at first how much more could be said about everything we had already been ably taught. But as the composition class began, I have been so pleasantly surprised at how much more in depth Johannes has been able to take us, layer upon layer.

As an educator myself, I understand, perhaps to an extent that the layperson does not completely understand, the value of repetition in the mastery of anything being learned. That’s the beauty of the experience Johannes is patiently taking us through. He is willing to teach each nugget again and again, each time with new examples and illustrations, so that not one of us is left behind if we are willing to hang with him and apply ourselves. Sometimes the wise instructor cannot move on if he or she feels that the class has not yet mastered a concept. To keep to a syllabus too rigidly in that case would be to the detriment of the students.

As I said, to my way of thinking the syllabus has been followed, each promised point been taught, albeit in a very organic way which is lively and interesting.

Plus we’ve had the wonderful painting demos thrown in for good measure! :clap: :thumbsup:


Grainne ("Kaye")

You are right. I was not planning to give another class on abstract shapes last Saturday but when I saw the photos posted, I realized there was still a weakness so I added one more class on this concept.

Johannes Instructor
02-22-2011, 11:57 PM
If I may ask Johannes, is there a reason why you don't follow the syllabus you submitted in January ? We had cropping as planned for lesson 2 but after that ... ...
Amandine
Yes there were too many weaknesses with the photo postings so I steered away a bit. Don'tt worry all those concepts will be taught.

Amandine
02-23-2011, 09:08 AM
Yes there were too many weaknesses with the photo postings so I steered away a bit. Don'tt worry all those concepts will be taught.

Thanks Johannes for clarifying this matter. I just wanted to be reassured that you would have enough time to cover everything you announced. I don't want to miss one little piece of it. :)
Amandine

pjreads
02-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Here is some interesting scientific support for the No Fly Zone concept

Below you will see a painting by a Russian artist, A. L Yarbus. and below that is the track of the eyes of a view who looked at it for 10 min....there were sensors on contacts in the eyes of the viewer.

I'm totally engrossed in book I found at a book sale that is IMO a must have read. Vision and Art: The Biology of Seeing (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=art+and+vision&x=0&y=0) I promise you will be completely amazed if you can get through it, written by a neurobiologist and a post doc who's an artist, it has, in plain language, some fascinating science of vision that pertains to art and artists painting. You can get one for under $10 used ....

Besides explaining the reason the Mona Lisa's smile is so mysterious(REALLY interesting) page 78 has this



now you know the why of some of what J says, but I found it so interesting that the eye never went into the nfz which the artist had kept quiet but still it has some things to see, notice that the left to right scan went a bit to the right side...What do you suppose was a cue to keep going back to the dark places behind the trees, looking for tiger maybe.....no it is the contrast there.

what would the tracks look like on your painting?

Fascinating how the eye movements follow the lines and contrasts. Thank you for sharing this.

winecountry
02-23-2011, 01:22 PM
Ok here is the best view of melodic lines (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/23/speedflying-in-wengen-2010.aspx)you could ever have. Enjoy

Grainne
02-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Ok here is the best view of melodic lines (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/23/speedflying-in-wengen-2010.aspx)you could ever have. Enjoy

Oh my :eek:

I've done the cable car from Murren to the top of the Schilthorn at 2970m and from Wengen up the Männlichen (2343m) a couple of times each, but only in the summer time and with no danger of "springing a leak" and plunging into a snow field no one could reach or guiding myself right smack dab into the side of a rock face. But once in July it was 80 and sunny on the valley floor but by the time I got to the top it was snowing so thickly I could barely see my hand in front of my face.

Thanks for a great ride! :D

Grainne

Ruthie57
02-23-2011, 04:45 PM
Wow! That was, gulp, amazing. Must go and lie down for a while now until the vertigo fades lol!

robertsloan2
02-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Wow! Loved that video. Those mountains were full of melodic lines - and the path of the flying skiers was also a melodic line in its own way, always changing, never predictable, graceful.

Loved that article too. I read something like it once and yes, I saw all of Johannes's principles of composition in how the eye paths of the viewer wandered through that painting. I even looked at the painting first and realized I was following some of the same paths. I was more interested in the trees than the figure because I am usually, but my own visual paths followed closely what the diagram showed - all the interesting bits were the ones I found interesting.

Johannes, thanks for mentioning the two cloned indentations. I can see other big problems in it too, when I took it out and looked at them together I laughed and laughed. If I were to do a flower that large again I would design it as a series of abstract shapes and it'd be beautiful. Some people wouldn't be able to tell the difference - but I would lay odds that even if they don't know why, they'd find a new one a lot more beautiful. I even had some wiggly worms in my splish splash background where I could've done something much cooler with loose abstract shapes of light and dark that were close in value. About the only thing I got right on the orange poppy was massing the values.

I think I'm ready to try with real oils now and will get a credible painting, maybe even on a par with my pastels.

Today I got Essential Brushstrokes in the mail. I'm halfway through it and it's a great eye opener. A lot of what he talks about with loading the brush and doing specific strokes are things I've seen Johannes do in oils demos. It's also systematic and easy to understand. Great for someone who is used to other mediums and how other types of paint behave but gets lost when working with paint that's the consistency of peanut butter.

I also dug around in my stuff today and found a 12" x 16" pad of cheap canvas paper. That's perfect for color mixing practice, strokes practice and any kind of practice stuff, I'm not wasting good canvases on those things. But they'll store easily once they're dry since it's flat and stiff, just like my watercolor swatch tests and mixing tests. It worked for watercolor to explore mixtures and do swatch tests of every new paint, so it'll probably help just as much or more in oils.

I'm also glad the author's using water mixable oils for the demonstrations. I'm using Winsor & Newton rather than the Holbein ones but if it gets to having a bad texture I'll replace them with Holbein when they're used up.

susanc
02-24-2011, 11:09 AM
Robert, you're lucky you still have that painting, and I don't think it's all that bad compared to most I've done! My worst painting ever committed is actually hanging in a law office.

I gave my two best paintings from my first oil painting class to my parents (who thankfully live out of state so I don't have to face those paintings more than twice a year!) and I trashed the rest of the paintings. Little did I realize, my sister would come along and liberate the paintings before the garbage truck came along. (She's the type who would buy the Charlie Brown Christmas tree, even if it was surrounded by hundreds of perfect trees.) She's an attorney, and her husband is an attorney. I'm going to offer them a straight trade if I ever paint something I'm happy with, but right now, it doesn't look like a stand a chance of getting it back legally! Ugh! I hate that it's out there, ruining my reputation before it even starts! :) Moral of the story--be very careful how you get rid of paintings you don't like!

BTW, I think you've definitely sold me on Brushwork Essentials!

sherrysherman
02-24-2011, 12:33 PM
I'm totally engrossed in book I found at a book sale that is IMO a must have read. Vision and Art: The Biology of Seeing (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=art+and+vision&x=0&y=0) I promise you will be completely amazed if you can get through it, written by a neurobiologist and a post doc who's an artist, it has, in plain language, some fascinating science of vision that pertains to art and artists painting. You can get one for under $10 used ....



I love this book! It is completely fascinating to me. Visual perception was my area of specialty in my senior year at college and first year of grad school - I'm sure I bored plenty of people by talking about how it works! (In fact, if you look at pages 201-203, describing the McCollough effect -- I was her research assistant for a year while we did experimental research on this effect and related aspects of it, surmising that a lot more visual processing and encoding goes on earlier - at the cellular level - in the process than had been previously thought.)

What I did NOT do was relate all of this material to art (just a little bit on one paper, reflecting on whether "perfect pitch" might exist for colors, as for music). So I am especially excited to be reading it now. Wow.

Thanks so much for this reference, Colleen.

susanc
02-24-2011, 02:22 PM
Maybe the light/dark contrast thing is part of our survival wiring because of the importance of shadows?

My husband loves to run the trails or bike into the mountains around here in the mornings. We have an assortment of wildlife, including mountain lions, from time to time. One morning as he was riding his bike back down the trail, he noticed a huge shadow coming after him. His heart leaped into his throat. It turned out to be a rabbit, with the sun lengthening the shadow to a monstrous proportion.

This morning, a man's shadow immediately caught my attention as it passed near me. He was across the street and I hadn't noticed him until his shadow alerted me to his presence. Of course, the first thing I thought of was Colleen's post and how our eyes are drawn that light/dark contrast, maybe in small part because shadows alert us to the presence of something we might not otherwise realize is near? Just one of my random theories--free of charge! ;)

(Yeah, my theory isn't important, but taking advantage of the proven eye behavior is--no light-dark value contrasts in the no-fly zone! :) )

Johannes Instructor
02-25-2011, 10:11 AM
Thought I would share another painting I did years ago in Mexico.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Feb-2011/135220-galanteo.jpg

Eddypus1
02-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Hi Johannes, lots of abstract shapes in this painting! When looking at a picture or a scene, do you squint your eyes as a visual aid. I really liked the tour of Clyde Aspivig's paintings you took us on during the lesson a couple of weeks ago. I found it very helpful looking at a painting through your eyes. As artists, we are very visual. Can you take us through a visual tour of paintings of the Masters. Did they also use abstract shapes and melodic lines?

susanc
02-25-2011, 11:30 AM
Hmmm. I definitely could learn a thing or two from you about painting man-made structures! Yes, a future class in that sounds great. Hope it works out! :)

I just wanted to mention for anyone in the LA area that the Masters of the American West Show is running at the Autry National Center thru March 20. http://theautry.org/masters-of-the-american-west-2011/artists

Even if you're not into traditional Western-themed art, Clyde Aspevig has a landscape there, and Jim Wilcox, Scott Christensen, Matt Smith, etc...(almost everyone reading this should be drooling by now!) :) I heard the Z. S. Liang painting is also a must-see.

(BTW, I enjoyed learning more about the Clyde Aspevig paintings, too, Eddypus1! Learning to see a painting though different eyes is fascinating.)

winecountry
02-25-2011, 12:43 PM
I was her research assistant for a year while we did experimental research on this effect and related aspects of it, surmising that a lot more visual processing and encoding goes on earlier - at the cellular level - in the process than had been previously thought.)

Thanks so much for this reference, Colleen.
Fascinating connection, not to that page yet, but will pay attention when I get there

Johannes Instructor
02-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Hi Johannes, lots of abstract shapes in this painting! When looking at a picture or a scene, do you squint your eyes as a visual aid. I really liked the tour of Clyde Aspivig's paintings you took us on during the lesson a couple of weeks ago. I found it very helpful looking at a painting through your eyes. As artists, we are very visual. Can you take us through a visual tour of paintings of the Masters. Did they also use abstract shapes and melodic lines?

LOL! Actually it is in my agenda to show some of John Singer Sargent tomorrow.

Johannes Instructor
02-25-2011, 04:10 PM
Hi Johannes, lots of abstract shapes in this painting! When looking at a picture or a scene, do you squint your eyes as a visual aid. I really liked the tour of Clyde Aspivig's paintings you took us on during the lesson a couple of weeks ago. I found it very helpful looking at a painting through your eyes. As artists, we are very visual. Can you take us through a visual tour of paintings of the Masters. Did they also use abstract shapes and melodic lines?

yes, squinting eyes is a good practice to simplify all the overwhelming information.

susanc
02-26-2011, 09:59 AM
I just wanted to mention for anyone in the LA area that the Masters of the American West Show is running at the Autry National Center thru March 20. http://theautry.org/masters-of-the-american-west-2011/artists

Even if you're not into traditional Western-themed art, Clyde Aspevig has a landscape there, and Jim Wilcox, Scott Christensen, Matt Smith, etc...
I forgot to mention that adult general admission at the Autry is normally about $10, but if you tell them on the 2nd Tuesday of the month that I sent you, general admission is FREE!!! (OK, I guess general admission is always free on the 2nd Tuesday of the month! ;) )

http://theautry.org/plan-your-visit/hours-and-admission

Holly B.
02-26-2011, 12:19 PM
Found the link, :) .

robertsloan2
02-26-2011, 02:57 PM
If you can do it, get into class early! Johannes often goes over his principles again while he's preparing his presentation and there's lots of gold nuggets. Also the class gets so overbooked that if you're serious, it's a good thing to get in early. He opens up an hour early to let regulars grab the best spots.

bajabev
02-26-2011, 05:51 PM
Johannnes,
This was one of the most informative classes yet and so clearly stated. They keep getting better. The demonstrations with Photoshop to show the differences in photo to what would make a good painting are so helpful.

Thank you for taking us all on!
Bev

express yourself
02-26-2011, 06:02 PM
Yeah found info of this on Twitter... love it! Was able to register as one of the first 1,000. Wow that is a bunch of us...:grouphug:

express yourself
02-26-2011, 06:06 PM
"He opens up an hour early to let regulars grab the best spots." Thanks for the heads up on this! :thumbsup:

hungry4art
02-26-2011, 06:12 PM
I am learning more every week! (and I've been trying to learn this stuff for years, but its so in depth and condensed in a two hour form and so well presented that my learning abilities are much better here! THANK YOU!!). First of all, thanks for sharing what you have learned from Aspevig and Wilcox. My goals have always been to take workshops from them, (or other modern masters) but its nearly impossible financially for the foreseeable future. It's been a source of much angst for many years. Most of us are trying to learn while tending to the other obligations of family/life/job.
Your demos in photoshop are revelations. Would it be possible to tweak the photos before hand and post them during the webinar side by side?That way it can be something we can gaze at and analyse for a few moments longer (while you speak).

KenBratto
02-26-2011, 06:12 PM
Thanks for the opportunity to gain from your knowledge.

Greatblu
02-26-2011, 06:21 PM
I was absolutely glued to the class today! I'm trying to incorporate some of the things you have been teaching into my painting...sometimes working...sometimes not. :)
I had trouble getting the PhotoSketcher information though. I will try again.
Thank you!!!!

Eddypus1
02-26-2011, 06:33 PM
the site is Fotosketcher.com

susanc
02-26-2011, 06:36 PM
According to the site, there is no Mac version of fotosketcher. Sorry!

Kandrea
02-26-2011, 07:53 PM
Hey, thanks for your superb instruction and artistic facts that illuminated the spiritual side of my learning process. You make each class fun by entertaining this humble student with comparisons that make me chuckle. Today was a fascinating journey involving great past artists. My mind is learning to view as my eyes see. I'm so grateful for finding you Johannes and all that you share. I look forward to next week - Can't wait to think and paint in 3D as you say. Oh, for the joy of Today!:wave:

Johannes Instructor
02-26-2011, 08:01 PM
Hey, thanks for your superb instruction and artistic facts that illuminated the spiritual side of my learning process. You make each class fun by entertaining this humble student with comparisons that make me chuckle. Today was a fascinating journey involving great past artists. My mind is learning to view as my eyes see. I'm so grateful for finding you Johannes and all that you share. I look forward to next week - Can't wait to think and paint in 3D as you say. Oh, for the joy of Today!:wave:

Next weeK??? Hold on we have class tomorrow and it is an important one.

Yabut
02-26-2011, 08:55 PM
My brother sent me this today. There may be hope for me yet, if even this artist understands melodic lines. http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/video/General/2344/2344.html

Johannes Instructor
02-26-2011, 09:20 PM
My brother sent me this today. There may be hope for me yet, if even this artist understands melodic lines. http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/video/General/2344/2344.html
That elephant should be in my course. With its memory it will never forget a concept again.

mozapony
02-26-2011, 10:06 PM
A very interesting class thanks muchly for the insights.

A question:
With the brain naturally in rebellion to the idea of pos/neg, would shifting to the other hand when creating the other side of the shapes make any difference to the brain's co-operation?

Fascinating stuff.
.
rgds
Sandee

Johannes Instructor
02-26-2011, 10:24 PM
A very interesting class thanks muchly for the insights.

A question:
With the brain naturally in rebellion to the idea of pos/neg, would shifting to the other hand when creating the other side of the shapes make any difference to the brain's co-operation?

Fascinating stuff.
.
rgds
Sandee

I don't believe that will do much because the idea is to train the artist to work normally but that he learns to pay attention to what was neglected in his novice years. We need to flex the muscles of the right brain. What I always tell my students is to pay attention to the blind spot. This means that as we paint a tree shape against the sky. The tree is the positive shape. The sky is the negative shape. As the figure takes form look back and forth between the sky and the tree shape. It works somewhat like when we are driving. We look ahead thru the windshield but we turn to check if there is car in our blind spot as we shift lanes doing all this while still paying attention to the front of the car. It's a matter of watching both areas while painting. In the beginning it takes conscious effort but pretty soon the left brain cedes and allows the right brain to cooperate and participate. I am really working hard with all of you to help you make that leap forward.

IrmaH322
02-26-2011, 10:25 PM
A very good presentation from Kenneth, thank you.

LTStu_Dent
02-26-2011, 11:06 PM
Thank you both, Johannes and Kenneth, a very informative and enjoyable presentation today. (Saturday, 26th.)

oCDs01-711
02-26-2011, 11:17 PM
I am paying for private painting classes and have not received the information you are giving. I was astounded and look eagerly to participate in all the other classes.

I loved the format of one person explaining the techniques and another person (voice) guiding us through a discussion. I liked the PowerPoint presentation as a different learning experience. Also using the computer programs where we can see the pointer as you work. Variety will keep us interested. SEEing is the key, I believe.

Thanks to you, Kenneth, Judy, and all at Wet Canvas who are responsible for bringing this to us. Of course, I know they need to make money, and I hope enough viewers will respond so that they can keep this program going for a while! The books they offered are wonderful! Hope someone recommends a watercolor book soon!

Grainne
02-27-2011, 12:05 AM
Kenneth's lecture today was excellent. Very much on point with everything we've been learning, and I'm sure what he gave us today will better aid us in viewing the work of past masters through the new lens we are being given by Johannes. All my graduate courses in Art History and the great master painters and no one taught me to read paintings in quite this way, a way that is beneficial to the painting student.

You two guys make a great team! :)

Thanks for volunteering your time, Kenneth! :clap:


Grainne "Kaye"

Susan Peltonen
02-27-2011, 12:52 AM
Just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying the Johannes Webinar on using photos in landscape painting. He is an excellent teacher and a skillful painter. I am learning so much from his presentations and demos. I also purchased the two books he recommended: Your Artist's Brain, and Mastering Composition. Both are excellent and packed full of helpful information that is sure to make me a better painter! Thank you Johannes!!

carol_lee
02-27-2011, 03:17 AM
Here is the link (http://www.fotosketcher.com/) to fotosketcher!!!

poolekv
02-27-2011, 03:37 AM
I just wanted to say thank you for the lesson last night it was a great lesson and came just at the right time for me

Kev

wingwald
02-27-2011, 04:00 AM
I have been learning such a lot from your lessons. You really make sense to me. Ive missed a few Mondays (your Sundays) as I am at work but your recaps and visual demos are fantastic and I feel like I havent missed too much. Thanks to you and your team.

Ruthie57
02-27-2011, 04:46 AM
Fantastic class last night Johannes. You were right about it. You got the messages across extremely well, at least for me. And I found Kenneth's talk very interesting and revealing. Thanks to him too for putting it together.

JayLynn
02-27-2011, 07:47 AM
I agree with Susan. Johannes is a great instructor. I have learned several things in just 3 classes that I never heard in art classes before. Thank you!

waterlily13
02-27-2011, 08:24 AM
I agree with both of you. The lecture was fabulous. I am excited about today's feature lesson. I am bringing my 92 year old Mom to watch with me.
She still paints landscapes of Florida and has been exhibiting locally. Go Mom!!! The tip about going from front to back is now creased into my brain.
I always did the back to front first. Isn't it great to learn?

Thanks guys
Vicki

Yarrow
02-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Can't wait for today's lesson, and I wanted to especially thank Kenneth for his contribution to yesterday's class. This series of classes is just amazing, and I'm so happy I discovered it! Every time I pick up a paintbrush I think back to what I've already learned.

tedzart
02-27-2011, 11:47 AM
Johannes:
Awesome classes. I count the days until the next class. You are giving so many wonderful treasures to us. I am seeing more beauty in the world than ever before.
Kenneth, you did a terrific lecture yesterday.
Thank you both for your commitment and willingness to share your passion and knowledge.
Sincere thanks,
Teddy

wetbob
02-27-2011, 02:32 PM
I like it too. I m busy organizing a statue for Johannes in our village (;

vapsman88
02-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Thanks to Kenneth for the excellent presentation yesterday, it was very interesting and very informative.

~John

Colorix
02-27-2011, 03:31 PM
Spinning Woman -- look at her with one eye only, makes it easier to spin her the other way. Right eye makes it easier to see her turn counterclockwise, left eye clockwise. The neves from the eyes do cross in the brain, so right eye goes to left brain.

lildip
02-27-2011, 05:09 PM
first time I've ever understood the reasons for poor pictures being painted from. He's excellent I can hardly wait for all the rest of the webinars

eslart
02-27-2011, 05:27 PM
I want to thank Johannes for this wonderful class. I have learned so much and am anxious to apply what I have learned today to my paintings. From all the workshops I have taken these tidbits of how to apply the values and see the masses were never discussed. Johannes is an excellent teacher and I thank him for explaining things that other teachers have kept to themselves.:clap:

sooziii
02-27-2011, 05:28 PM
Loved the lesson on values.
Thanks for teaching us about masses; can see now why some of my paintings don't work. Thanks
If you look through a piece of red cellophane it will convert colours to greyscale tones. Quilters only used tones to design quilts then we start to decide colours based on their tone value.

sooziii
02-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Loved the lesson on values.
Thanks for teaching us about masses; can see now why some of my paintings don't work. Thanks
If you look through a piece of red cellophane it will convert colours to greyscale tones. Quilters only used tones to design quilts then we start to decide colours based on their tone value.

BGorski
02-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Thanks for all the info, Maestro!! It's a little like coming to the feast with a small appetite. So much to eat, and so little room in the stomach!! ;0)

BeeMcD
02-27-2011, 05:45 PM
I can't do the abstract shape homework because I don't have a program that lets me load a oval and triangle and then erase parts as you did. Would you recommend a program to me that will do this.

sherrysherman
02-27-2011, 05:51 PM
Spinning Woman -- look at her with one eye only, makes it easier to spin her the other way. Right eye makes it easier to see her turn counterclockwise, left eye clockwise. The neves from the eyes do cross in the brain, so right eye goes to left brain.

I did see it shift - weird! It was so sudden when it happened. Then shifted back. I'll try it with just one eye, see what happens.

Actually, how the eyes link to the brain is more complicated than that. It's not a simple cross-over. The left visual field from BOTH eyes goes to the right hemisphere; the right visual field from BOTH eyes goes to the left hemisphere. (THis coordinates well with the left side of your body connecting to the right hemisphere and vice versa.)

Colorix
02-27-2011, 05:57 PM
Actually, how the eyes link to the brain is more complicated than that. It's not a simple cross-over. The left visual field from BOTH eyes goes to the right hemisphere; the right visual field from BOTH eyes goes to the left hemisphere. (THis coordinates well with the left side of your body connecting to the right hemisphere and vice versa.)

Right, absolutely! I oversimplified. Looking at her through periferal vision (two eyes) works as well as one eye.

TerryKrysak
02-27-2011, 05:59 PM
You should be able to draw an oval and a triangle in Microsoft Paint, included on all PC's, fill them in with "black" paint bucket, then use the eraser "white" color to make the changes.

TerryKrysak
02-27-2011, 06:02 PM
Here is a link to the Johannes interview done by CTV in Edmonton posted on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCy58DvILY

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 06:16 PM
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha

SalzburgBJ
02-27-2011, 06:32 PM
Excellent post-class discussion and explanations!
THANK YOU JOHANNES -- WE LOVE YOU TOO!

tedzart
02-27-2011, 06:32 PM
A dumb question. Where are the people asking their question during the webinar?

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 06:44 PM
I can't do the abstract shape homework because I don't have a program that lets me load a oval and triangle and then erase parts as you did. Would you recommend a program to me that will do this.

Hold on I never said to use a computer. I said if you want you can use a computer. This is better to be done with a paint brush or draw an oval and fill it in with a graphite pencil and ERASE the pencil until you get the abstract form.

mcbru
02-27-2011, 06:52 PM
Bonnie, A program you might want to try is Paint.net. You can download. It's free and very useful for just the things we are currently doing in class. Hope this helps.

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 07:20 PM
I wish to clarify something that came up during the web class this Sunday. When I made the reference to instructors withholding information or teaching irrelevant notions I was not addressing any particular in the group. The real truth is I don't know who or if any of you are instructors. I was speaking about instructors I know out of the webinar group in the physical world personally and from I have experienced in my personal career. I was held back by lack of interest from some instructors so I was letting you know what slowed me down. Please if any of you are art instructors do not think I was referencing you. I am quite new to wetcanvas and don't know anyone in this forum who gives classes. When I mentioned that if there were instructors in the forum that they would really help students understand that the macro world is different that the painting. Those are not the ones I was referring to in previous comments.

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 07:27 PM
Johannes, today's class was really wonderful and most informative, but I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by the human eye being able to only see 6 or 7 values. I just completed these color chart exercises last week using the Munsell system and there are 9 values (excluding black and white) and 3 color intensities represented, along with the corresponding grayscale alongside. I just squint enough to make the hue disappear and the value is all that is left, which helps me see what value a particular color is.

I know these are FAR from perfect but I must have been able to see the values, so what am I not understanding about what you said? I must be missing something--help--I don't want to get farther behind, since it seems your concepts build on each other. Thank you!

Marsha[/SIZE]http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-ColorChart1.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-ColorChart2.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-ColorChart3.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-ColorChart4.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-ColorChart5.JPG [/SIZE]

robertsloan2
02-27-2011, 07:36 PM
I can't do the abstract shape homework because I don't have a program that lets me load a oval and triangle and then erase parts as you did. Would you recommend a program to me that will do this.

http://www.gimp.org - Gimp is free and can do anything Photoshop can. It's why I never bought Photoshop. It's pretty easy to do the oval exercise. Just click on the icon for an oval and draw one on the blank page, then use the Bucket Fill icon and click in it to turn it black. Then pick up the Eraser icon and start carving out your shapes. You can select the size and shape of brush if you click on the brush icon, which is normally a fairly large black dot.

Notes posted for today's class! Wow! It was a fantastic one. I haven't done my carving-out homework yet because last night I was too tired to start and tonight I'm still fighting fatigue and pain, but I've got some cool ideas for it. Did something like it back in December so I don't think I'll do the oval as a tree. I'm very, very tempted to do at least one oval that's a sleeping cat shape - might do both a tree and a sleeping cat one, but got to do that "cat as abstract" thing again.

I'm working on cat commissions and planning each of them to have a good composition by Johannes's principles, so that's why cat shapes keep coming up in my notes. Cats do form very abstract shapes many times, even if their ears are sometimes symmetrical. Only sometimes. They move those ears independently and swivel them around changing the shape. Of course the features are symmetrical but that's often a small detail within the shape rather than the main shape of the cat as a whole.

Marsha, it helps in understanding what he means by losing color in values 8, 9 and 10 by looking at them outdoors at a great distance. It's not that the Terry Ludwig super eggplant purple isn't a violet rather than black. It's that if you took a swipe with that stick and put it across the room, it'd look black.

He's primarily talking about colors as seen outdoors in daylight with the values 2-7 with 8 accents range. That is, they're yards and sometimes hundreds of yards away where the atmosphere diminishes their impact. One good thing about that deep deep purple is that if it's used instead of black its effect is much richer. It reads as "black plus" or a more intense black.

It's possible to distinguish more values in between within the 4-5 range than in a 1-10 value map because the eye (and Photoshop) can distinguish hundreds of values. It's more that massing values means keeping a particular big abstract mass within that value range and using color to distinguish separate elements within it along with less drastic value changes. Like that's really 3.0 through 4.0 including 3.2 and 4.7 and so on when you want a relatively strong value shift that stays within the integrity of the value mass.

Davkin
02-27-2011, 07:37 PM
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha

I scored 8 which I guess is pretty good, top 10%? A-? Good thing I didn't inherit my Dad's color blindness gene, though my astigmatism doesn't help.


David

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 07:44 PM
Johannes, today's class was really wonderful and most informative, but I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by the human eye being able to only see 6 or 7 values. I just completed these color chart exercises last week using the Munsell system and there are 9 values (excluding black and white) and 3 color intensities represented, along with the corresponding grayscale alongside. I just squint enough to make the hue disappear and the value is all that is left, which helps me see what value a particular color is.

I know these are FAR from perfect but I must have been able to see the values, so what am I not understanding about what you said? I must be missing something--help--I don't want to get farther behind, since it seems your concepts build on each other. Thank you!

Marsha[/size] [/size] Ok I will clarify.The human eye can see hundreds of values because our pupils dilate where in the print or photograph industry as well as some some art schools they refer to 10 values. Of course we can easily see 10 values but nearly impossible to produce in color pigment without repeating a value. In nature in broad daylight there is so much light that results from the sun, sky and reflected light that a value 8, 9 or 10 in a solid shape such as a tree or rock these last three values are practically non existent unless the scene is in very late maybe even sun gone goes down. Therefore painting an object as dark as a value 8 or darker create a disturbing effect if it appears in a painting because that would indicate that it doesn't even get reflect light from its surrounding. Another good argument is that the colors after a value 8 do not show up anymore for the value is too dark for the color is to detectable from a distance. Now if we look at your charts and you did a great job to say the least not to mention the dedication. You are still repeating values in squares. I could not do better than you did. The challenge still stands. I want someone to prove me wrong and produce with pencils 10 distinct value squares 1 - 10 where not one value repeats. If it cannot be done in gray scale much less in color.

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 07:47 PM
A dumb question. Where are the people asking their question during the webinar?
There is a little arrow next to the question window. Click on that to expand the window.

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 07:50 PM
Hold on I never said to use a computer. I said if you want you can use a computer. This is better to be done with a paint brush or draw an oval and fill it in with a graphite pencil and ERASE the pencil or paint with white until you get the abstract form.

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Loved the lesson on values.
Thanks for teaching us about masses; can see now why some of my paintings don't work. Thanks
If you look through a piece of red cellophane it will convert colours to greyscale tones. Quilters only used tones to design quilts then we start to decide colours based on their tone value.
Actually yes as much as I once wanted to put that way of seeing down. I gave in. The red cellophane actually does reduce all the values.

robertsloan2
02-27-2011, 07:53 PM
I scored 8 which I guess is pretty good, top 10%? A-? Good thing I didn't inherit my Dad's color blindness gene, though my astigmatism doesn't help.


David

You scored better than I did, I got 12. Which I guess still isn't that bad. It was pretty startling to see that all the errors were grouped in only two narrow areas too, that's slightly scary to think the world might be more colorful than I experience it. Still, it's a very slight effect.

Rosemaryanne
02-27-2011, 08:02 PM
These classes are the so full of great info. Certainly have made me look at my art and photos in a different way and am happy that -accidentally- most of my work is in the ok basket. I watch from 7am -9am and beyond on Sunday and Monday morning / so miss half of Mondays class / committments call me away before the class finishes unfortunately.
Thank you to Johannes and all who have made this possible / a side extra is that I am understanding my computer a bit better also!
Rosemaryanne / from northern NSW Australia

:wave:

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 08:26 PM
David, 8 sounds like an excellent score! If you try again after getting used to what they're asking, I bet your score will be even lower (Low is good). :clap:

Marsha

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 08:35 PM
Robert, thank you so much, once again for sharing your notes. They are invaluable to me and although I keep taking my own notes just to help me internalize all that Johannes is teaching us, your notes really help me fill in all the parts I end up missing.
Marsha

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 08:40 PM
I got a 4. is that good or bad? Never mind I read the lower the better but I don't know how low is good. LOL.

Pinklady219
02-27-2011, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Kumquat
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha
Kumquat, I took the test. Thank you so much for putting up the link. I scored a 0. CANNOT believe it!!

rugman
02-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by Kumquat
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha
Kumquat, I took the test. Thank you so much for putting up the link. I scored a 0. CANNOT believe it!!

Wow, thats amazing! I got a 7.

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 09:36 PM
Ok I will clarify.The human eye can see hundreds of values because our pupils dilate where in the print or photograph industry as well as some some art schools they refer to 10 values. Of course we can easily see 10 values but nearly impossible to produce in color pigment without repeating a value. In nature in broad daylight there is so much light that results from the sun, sky and reflected light that a value 8, 9 or 10 in a solid shape such as a tree or rock these last three values are practically non existent unless the scene is in very late maybe even sun gone goes down. Therefore painting an object as dark as a value 8 or darker create a disturbing effect if it appears in a painting because that would indicate that it doesn't even get reflect light from its surrounding. Another good argument is that the colors after a value 8 do not show up anymore for the value is too dark for the color is to detectable from a distance. Now if we look at your charts and you did a great job to say the least not to mention the dedication. You are still repeating values in squares. I could not do better than you did. The challenge still stands. I want someone to prove me wrong and produce with pencils 10 distinct value squares 1 - 10 where not one value repeats. If it cannot be done in gray scale much less in color.

Okay, I can't resist that challenge--here is my version done with graphite--


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-Grayscale.jpg

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by Kumquat
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha
Kumquat, I took the test. Thank you so much for putting up the link. I scored a 0. CANNOT believe it!!
What an amazing score! I only got a 3--Bravo to you!:clap:
Marsha

Kumquat
02-27-2011, 09:47 PM
I got a 4. is that good or bad? Never mind I read the lower the better but I don't know how low is good. LOL.
It was fun, wasn't it, and informative too! Robert made the astute observation that certain areas of the test are very telling. My problem was in the 5 and 6 value range. I would think that anything below 10 or 15 would be very good--artist-eye acuity.

Glad you all enjoyed it!

Artsydeb
02-27-2011, 09:56 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for great class really enjoyed it. I have only done a couple of pics in oils so far. This class is great as started another with ton of trees and wasn't sure how to proceed so now have good idea on it. Everyone's pics look super.

Artsydeb

Dagmartist
02-27-2011, 10:03 PM
Johannes:! hope this is the correct place to thank you, Johannes! I have been into portrait painting most of my life and began plein air two years ago. Little did I know how important all this would be. I am so excited about your classes and teaching style! :thumbsup: I missed the first 4 classes but definitely plan to miss no more! My husband has excepted the fact that every weekend from noon to 2+ is for my studies online :angel: Thank you so much with all my heart. I feel so fortunate and am excited about becoming a better painter thanks to your kind sharing.

Robert: I am so grateful for your notes, thank you for your kind generosity!

Johannes Instructor
02-27-2011, 10:15 PM
Okay, I can't resist that challenge--here is my version done with graphite--


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/71540-Grayscale.jpgSorry but I see 2 squares that repeat the exact same value. Each square needs to be different.

winecountry
02-27-2011, 11:13 PM
key class today, thanks!

Here is an interesting artist, I saw this actual work at a gallery here and the photo is only slightly dark....it's very interesting, if I were to copy it I think Id make it too dark..so look how your eyes are fooled , it's really very much mid range even tho it's low light conditions, I'm looking at the sky and water, not the hill ( which is not that dark in rl) l....notice what value the light, sky and water is...sort of like Johannes showed us today on his

hes been painting nearly 30 years...I like the moods and the simplicity of his work this one is small 8x10
F Michael Wood (http://fmichaelwood.com/)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/103030-m_wood_color.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/103030-m_wood_grey.jpg

mtnrunner
02-28-2011, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by Kumquat
Hello Art Friends,:wave:

Here is a test to assess your color acuity:
http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77

Have fun!
Marsha
Kumquat, I took the test. Thank you so much for putting up the link. I scored a 0. CANNOT believe it!!


Good job! I got a 3, all errors were in the blue/green mid value. Very interesting

Rosemarie
02-28-2011, 02:43 AM
Hi!
Thanks Johannes for the gold nugget filled lectures! I sit up each night 9-11 pm even if I am dead tired.

Scored 12% the first time on the colour test, without using my glasses. Scored 0% with my glasses and taking my time! Fun doing the test.

Ruthie57
02-28-2011, 03:35 AM
Thanks for the hue test. I took this before about 2 years ago and my score was 8. It's now 4 so in 2 years time it should be 0!!

Kumquat
02-28-2011, 03:36 AM
Sorry but I see 2 squares that repeat the exact same value. Each square needs to be different.

Could you tell me which two, as I can't see it, and I'll give it another go--gotta try for a 10! :cat:

Thank you for all your help, Johannes. The amount of time you devote to helping us all improve is a wonderful thing.

Marsha

Ruthie57
02-28-2011, 03:50 AM
Marsha, looks like you have 11 values there. White is one of course. So if you add a white you may find you've cracked it!

elsie50
02-28-2011, 06:26 AM
Thank you so much Jo, for your wonderful classes, I have been riveted, and have learnt so much, even though I have been painting for years. My husband, who doesn't paint, has even taken to bringing up a chair and sitting in with me, he finds it so interesting as well.

versailles 78
02-28-2011, 07:08 AM
Sorry I took the wrong thread to thank Robert for all his good and extremely clear notes from Johannes' classes. It's so much more than anything I can do ! Thanks a lot !:)

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 07:33 AM
Could you tell me which two, as I can't see it, and I'll give it another go--gotta try for a 10! :cat:

Thank you for all your help, Johannes. The amount of time you devote to helping us all improve is a wonderful thing.

Marsha
Counting white as 1. 6 and 7 are exactly the same

ungulate
02-28-2011, 07:46 AM
Johannes,
I have been painting for 10 years, have paid the 800. to "instructors" on more than one occasion for much less information than you gave in the very first lesson. Nothing gets in the way of my Saturday and Sunday afternoons spent with you.
I cannot express in words how grateful I am to you and can only say, "thank you, thank you!"
Susan

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 07:55 AM
Johannes,
I have been painting for 10 years, have paid the 800. to "instructors" on more than one occasion for much less information than you gave in the very first lesson. Nothing gets in the way of my Saturday and Sunday afternoons spent with you.
I cannot express in words how grateful I am to you and can only say, "thank you, thank you!"
Susan
This is what I was referring to after the class was over yesterday. All these concepts I have been teaching should be common knowledge by anyone who has taken courses, especially the shape class I gave last week.

robertsloan2
02-28-2011, 08:11 AM
Kumquat, I did that with ink once and one of the problems with doing a ten-step value bar is that even if you can vary every square from the ones beside it - doing so in perfectly even steps is what's almost impossible.

Johannes pointed out that when you simplify by dropping the extreme values from a printed value scale, you have a comfortable value range. The thing is, 10 is not the limit of values the human eye can distinguish. That's in the hundreds.

Some of what you have is 2.8 next to 3.2 next to 3.5 next to 3.9... you're distinguishing more values within the light end of the range than in the middle and darks. That's what makes it crazy to do in pencil. I managed it mechanically with a pen on the same challenge but had to stop hatching and cross hatching and switch to broken lines to get the upper values - which would take pretty large squares to get even textures.

It's easier to get ten values with paint though. In gouache, mix black and white, then take a dab of that mix into a bigger blob of white, then take a dab of that mix into white and with a few experiments you can divide any dark pigment into ten evenly spaced values.

But if you do that with Prussian Blue instead of Black, what you get is a value 8 color divided into ten divisions, not a scale of 1 to 10 that's the same if you did it with Black.

Sorry I didn't do my homework last night, got too sick to do it. Wiped out right after class and spent the evening watching Netflix, dazed and confused. It didn't feel urgent because I'd done it once before and come up with a good abstract tree out of a vertical oval. Though I hadn't tried the triangle one, I knew it was the same thing.

Johannes, I can understand why doing this exercise with paint would be more valuable. I used my computer because setting up to paint is difficult enough I might as well do a real painting, but this exercise is an important one for "how to fix that bad tree in my real painting." I'll be doing it again and again every time I paint a tree.

I'm also planning my third cat composition, which isn't a formal portrait pose at all. The animal's flopped on a blanket in one of those silly curly cat poses with his head upside down. I've been staring at that for days getting ready to paint him so I did my first oval cutout as a pre-thumbnail for my cat commission. What surprised me was that it did come out abstract but without the details of his head distinct from belly it didn't look like a cat!

I think I can work with that though. Color and variegation create recognition, elements like the cat's head and the cat's tummy can combine in planning masses. In my photo I've got a mid-light mass of most of the white cat with a much smaller abstract white accent that's the sun on his back and front leg. Plus a distinctive black marking on his face that emphasizes his head as the focal area.

The whites do connect well and once again, my client provided me with a stunning photo to work from. I'm very lucky she is a good photographer with a Nikon Koolpix and an eye for composition or these portraits would be much harder!

Colleen, I love that seascape you found. It's interesting that he managed to balance a centered composition - sun's dead center side to side. Yet it works, it looks beautiful as if I just walked out onto that beach. You're right, very simple and powerful.

In something like this or Johannes's sunset, it seems like it's the reverse of that old art saying "Value does the work and color takes the credit." When we're limiting our values, color has to pick up the work and it's up to the job! Literally, the light went out in the grayscale version, like the sun was outside the crop.

versailles 78
02-28-2011, 08:21 AM
:clap: Thank you Johannes for wonderful classes so new and interesting. I learn a lot. In the US you seem to begin learning drawing with only the value grey scale and that at least for one year (That's what I have been told) But where I learned, we started very quickly with colours without this learning of values. So it's very hard for me to understand how you go from the grey scale (easy to understand) to the colors still keeping this notion of values so strictly. I found that very difficult to transpose (is this a good word ? ) and sometimes can't see it. Would you have a book that would clarify that for me ? Thank you again for sharing all your knowledge.:clap:

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Kumquat, I did that with ink once and one of the problems with doing a ten-step value bar is that even if you can vary every square from the ones beside it - doing so in perfectly even steps is what's almost impossible.

Johannes pointed out that when you simplify by dropping the extreme values from a printed value scale, you have a comfortable value range. The thing is, 10 is not the limit of values the human eye can distinguish. That's in the hundreds.

Some of what you have is 2.8 next to 3.2 next to 3.5 next to 3.9... you're distinguishing more values within the light end of the range than in the middle and darks. That's what makes it crazy to do in pencil. I managed it mechanically with a pen on the same challenge but had to stop hatching and cross hatching and switch to broken lines to get the upper values - which would take pretty large squares to get even textures.

It's easier to get ten values with paint though. In gouache, mix black and white, then take a dab of that mix into a bigger blob of white, then take a dab of that mix into white and with a few experiments you can divide any dark pigment into ten evenly spaced values.

But if you do that with Prussian Blue instead of Black, what you get is a value 8 color divided into ten divisions, not a scale of 1 to 10 that's the same if you did it with Black.

Sorry I didn't do my homework last night, got too sick to do it. Wiped out right after class and spent the evening watching Netflix, dazed and confused. It didn't feel urgent because I'd done it once before and come up with a good abstract tree out of a vertical oval. Though I hadn't tried the triangle one, I knew it was the same thing.

Johannes, I can understand why doing this exercise with paint would be more valuable. I used my computer because setting up to paint is difficult enough I might as well do a real painting, but this exercise is an important one for "how to fix that bad tree in my real painting." I'll be doing it again and again every time I paint a tree.

I'm also planning my third cat composition, which isn't a formal portrait pose at all. The animal's flopped on a blanket in one of those silly curly cat poses with his head upside down. I've been staring at that for days getting ready to paint him so I did my first oval cutout as a pre-thumbnail for my cat commission. What surprised me was that it did come out abstract but without the details of his head distinct from belly it didn't look like a cat!

I think I can work with that though. Color and variegation create recognition, elements like the cat's head and the cat's tummy can combine in planning masses. In my photo I've got a mid-light mass of most of the white cat with a much smaller abstract white accent that's the sun on his back and front leg. Plus a distinctive black marking on his face that emphasizes his head as the focal area.

The whites do connect well and once again, my client provided me with a stunning photo to work from. I'm very lucky she is a good photographer with a Nikon Koolpix and an eye for composition or these portraits would be much harder!

Colleen, I love that seascape you found. It's interesting that he managed to balance a centered composition - sun's dead center side to side. Yet it works, it looks beautiful as if I just walked out onto that beach. You're right, very simple and powerful.

In something like this or Johannes's sunset, it seems like it's the reverse of that old art saying "Value does the work and color takes the credit." When we're limiting our values, color has to pick up the work and it's up to the job! Literally, the light went out in the grayscale version, like the sun was outside the crop.
it was not intended to be done by computer. I said you can use the comouter if you want but I was thinking more in the terms as them doing it with a brush.

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 08:25 AM
:clap: So it's very hard for me to understand how you go from the grey scale (easy to understand) to the colors still keeping this notion of values so strictly. I found that very difficult to transpose (is this a good word ? ) and sometimes can't see it. Would you have a book that would clarify that for me ? Thank you again for sharing all your knowledge.:clap:
Join the rest of us. Translating color into value is tough. That's why me must think in 3 values and let the in between values happen by chance.

pezk
02-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Hi Jon,
I want to thank you for your lecture yesterday. That had to be the best, clearest, value lecture I have ever heard. I've paid lots of money over the yrs trying to understand the process of painting, but none of them compare to yours. Thanks for continuing to lecture after 5pm. I wasn't able to sign in until 4:30. The webinar was full for a long time. So your continuing lecture was so so helpful.
I had never thought of the process of painting in the way you described it. esp the part about periperal vision and having to move your head to take in the macro world.
If I'm standing next to the car looking at the landscape before me, I now understand that nature is very, very beautiful in a real, macro sense, but in order to translate it to a small piece of canvas, then the viewer must simply, objects and masses, and values, and lines, and make them more interesting as the elements of a painting because it's on such a limited scale.
Right? Does this apply to stilllife, portraits etc?
thx again
pezk

buddingartist
02-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Just wanted to join in with the others and echo my thanks to both Johannes and Kenneth for another great weekend of learning.

I think I got my HA HA moment this weekend as to why I have been admiring some of the paintings that Kenneth reviewed with us.

Of course, Johannes, the famous grey scale was where it hit the most. I love bright and radiant colors and I look around at my paintings and a lot (and I mean a lot) of them have 8-9-10 values, with very sharp contrasts of 1 and 2's.

Now I understand why they are not good and I am thankful that I am a hobbyist and that these paintings are not hanging in anybody else's homes (other than some of my family and friends:lol: )but mine.

I would also be remiss in not thanking Robert once again for his fabulous notes. They are nicely compiled in my binder.

Can't wait for next weekend.
Louise

Painterdee
02-28-2011, 10:56 AM
J, I have only been on for a couple of weeks and have been totally amazed! Thanks!!! I wonder if there can be a separate string started for getting the
weekend bundles for $9.99 that you have mentioned. I can see that it has been mentioned many times but I am unable to find anything. (is it buried into some other strings?)I would like to get a couple of them so I can "catch up". Thanks again for being such a great teacher...everything is clear and so well explained!

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 02:48 PM
J, I have only been on for a couple of weeks and have been totally amazed! Thanks!!! I wonder if there can be a separate string started for getting the
weekend bundles for $9.99 that you have mentioned. I can see that it has been mentioned many times but I am unable to find anything. (is it buried into some other strings?)I would like to get a couple of them so I can "catch up". Thanks again for being such a great teacher...everything is clear and so well explained!
We are still waiting for ArtistsNetowrk to release the material. Believe me I am more anxious than you are to get those recoreded classes up for sale.

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Hi Jon,
I want to thank you for your lecture yesterday. That had to be the best, clearest, value lecture I have ever heard. I've paid lots of money over the yrs trying to understand the process of painting, but none of them compare to yours. Thanks for continuing to lecture after 5pm. I wasn't able to sign in until 4:30. The webinar was full for a long time. So your continuing lecture was so so helpful.
I had never thought of the process of painting in the way you described it. esp the part about periperal vision and having to move your head to take in the macro world.
If I'm standing next to the car looking at the landscape before me, I now understand that nature is very, very beautiful in a real, macro sense, but in order to translate it to a small piece of canvas, then the viewer must simply, objects and masses, and values, and lines, and make them more interesting as the elements of a painting because it's on such a limited scale.
Right? Does this apply to stilllife, portraits etc?
thx again
pezk

Ah your message was music to my eyes!! It is so good that you are understanding that you cannot bring in the material from the macro world into a painting but the painting has to be a poetic message created by you based on an INSPIRED IDEA from nature. Landscape paintings are not supposed to be copies from nature much less from photos. When it comes to still lifes we can duplicate the size of the fruit just like in the real scene but we have one problem, A real still life is 3D, the painted version is 2D so even if you have the exact same dimensions you just can't copy the objects. We still need to blur edges and apply artificial solutions to substitutethe real portrait.
http://www.westwindfineart.com/richard/richardpaintingpage.htm
Look at that still life above from Richard Schmid one of the top masters in the USA. How many round symmetrical fruits do you see? Look at David Leffel's work. Top artists don't attempt to make things look real. They are more interested in making shapes abstract and pleasing. They already gave up trying to punch out mother nature. Look at Sanden's or Zorn's portraits. Not even portraits are supposed to be real. Again the human head is three dimensional and photos are two dimensions and photos do NOT agree with the human eye. They disagree. A photo will show the back of a human head to be hard edged killing any sense of depth. If we want to simulate depth then we need to lose edges. Or what about a photo with someone wearing a suit and he is placed at 3/4 position. The back shoulder and arm clothing will be further from you but the camera will make it have the same hard edge as the clothes that are closer to you. So if we soften the edges at the folds of the arm further from you we send a message to the viewer (this being an artificial solution) that that arm is further away. the bottom line is you can never create a 3D illusion by copying a photo or even using much of its information. Besides photos lie with color and value. Edges are all wrong. Alls these things is what has kept so many artists from being set free. They become photo dependant. PHOTOS DO NOT REPRESENT REAL SCENES. But your painting can give you the FEELING or the EMOTION of the real scene. That is why photo murals died in the market.

ColourSplasher
02-28-2011, 05:42 PM
While there is definitely truth in the concept of brain lateralization & specialization, it's really not that simple. (See links below). So fear not, you can be a great artist (or sucky one) regardless of which way you saw her spinning.

Does the “Right Brain vs. Left Brain” Spinning Dancer Test Work?

http://scienceline.org/2007/10/ask-hsu-spinning-girl-right-left-brain-hemispheres/

'Right Brain' or 'Left Brain' - Myth Or Reality?

http://www.rense.com/general2/rb.htm


Why the "Right Brain" Idea is Wrong-Headed (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-ledoux/why-the-right-brain-idea_b_206156.html)


Left brain, right brain

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/06/24/2856996.htm

susanc
02-28-2011, 06:23 PM
I saw this actual work at a gallery here and the photo is only slightly dark....it's very interesting, if I were to copy it I think Id make it too dark..so look how your eyes are fooled , it's really very much mid range even tho it's low light conditions, I'm looking at the sky and water, not the hill (which is not that dark in rl) ....notice what value the light, sky and water is...sort of like Johannes showed us today...

I enjoy seeing different painters. Thanks, Colleen.

One painter already mentioned whose painting values match quite a bit with suggestions in the latest handout (#10) is Scott L. Christensen. I was watching his "Three Landscape Studies" video and he said that his limited palette helps him because he doesn't get "too dark in his darks" with it and it helps keep the shadows up. I believe he feels there's more light (which= color) in the shadows if he keeps shadow values from getting too dark.

Here's Scott Christensen's gallery to see how he handles values:
http://www.christensenstudio.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=15825&Akey=TVKNT9F5 Look for the word "Galleries" at the upper right side and click on it.
To me, the posted photos seem slightly darker than they do in his book.

Some awards he has received:
Arts for the Parks competition in 1991; Northwest Rendezvous Juror's Award of Merit in 1993 & 1994; Most Distinguished Alumni of Chadron State College 1997 and the Prix de West Award for his painting "Wind River Ice" in 2000.

susanc
02-28-2011, 07:24 PM
Most people realize you can't sit down and play a concerto at the piano the first time. You have to practice if you want to become better, train your brain and muscle memory to behave in new ways. Last Saturday's exercise was all about retraining the brain to think in a different way. For me, it was difficult to create a shape working in from the outer edges. But I never felt discouraged because I wasn't used to thinking that way.

I really don't think the message here ever would be that there is no hope for you. We just have to learn to think and see in new ways and practice them. What's the saying? If something isn't working, you've got to try something new?

If someone's paintings aren't working, maybe it's time to try a new way of thinking. One way to do that is to work on these exercises until you get results that look more like the modern masters. In a way, it's similar to people who practice scales daily on the piano.

I appreciate the encouragement you intended. Thanks! :) (And of course, Leonardo da Vinci shows being logical doesn't mean that you can't be artistic, too! :) )

winecountry
02-28-2011, 07:30 PM
Posted in wrong thread...moved it to week 6

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Most people realize you can't sit down and play a concerto at the piano the first time. You have to practice if you want to become better, train your brain and muscle memory to behave in new ways. Last Saturday's exercise was all about retraining the brain to think in a different way. For me, it was difficult to create a shape working in from the outer edges. But I never felt discouraged because I wasn't used to thinking that way.

I really don't think the message here ever would be that there is no hope for you. We just have to learn to think and see in new ways and practice them. What's the saying? If something isn't working, you've got to try something new?

If someone's paintings aren't working, maybe it's time to try a new way of thinking. One way to do that is to work on these exercises until you get results that look more like the modern masters. In a way, it's similar to people who practice scales daily on the piano.

I appreciate the encouragement you intended. Thanks! :) (And of course, Leonardo da Vinci shows being logical doesn't mean that you can't be artistic, too! :) )
Very well said

Johannes Instructor
02-28-2011, 07:48 PM
While there is definitely truth in the concept of brain lateralization & specialization, it's really not that simple. (See links below). So fear not, you can be a great artist (or sucky one) regardless of which way you saw her spinning.

Does the “Right Brain vs. Left Brain” Spinning Dancer Test Work?

http://scienceline.org/2007/10/ask-hsu-spinning-girl-right-left-brain-hemispheres/

'Right Brain' or 'Left Brain' - Myth Or Reality?

http://www.rense.com/general2/rb.htm


Why the "Right Brain" Idea is Wrong-Headed (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-ledoux/why-the-right-brain-idea_b_206156.html)


Left brain, right brain

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/06/24/2856996.htm

There is no such thing as a left brain person or a right brain person. That is a myth. What is true is that we use both sides. The left side tends to work with speech as intellectual aspects and the right tends to work for the artistic expression and both sides work in unison. We all work from both hemispheres but from I have studied about this is that we use the right hemisiphere more for art and the left side deals more with intellect. I don't believe some people are more right brained than others. What I believe is that some people use more of it when they paint. This is not a faculty that favors that person from genetics. It is like developing a better memory. You work on it so both side of the brain cooperate. The idea is not to lean so much on the intellectual side because one will produce symmetrical shapes. Now this has nothing to do with the spinning woman. I just assumed that because the website mentioned it that how it worked. Betty Edwards wrote a book called, Drawing from the Right side of the Brain in which she proves that if we chnage our way of seeing things from the lintellectual brain our artwork will improve. She makes ample references to the artist focusing on the surrounding space when drawing along with the solid (positive) space so we just don't focus on the positive shape. As far as I know no one has disputed the fact that the artistic brain is the right brain. What I do know is that when an artists shifts his concentration on the negative space and by the same token the positive space, he will be able to avoid symmetry and repitions. Please take into account that I am not taking the spinning woman to make my whole point but all the otehr sceince behind it. But then again just calling it "right brain" is meaningless. The point I am teaching is to help the students visualize their negative spaces and become aware of cloned subjects etc. Whether this is right brain or not is irrelvant for that would just be words. the fact remains that if we must be trained to avoid symmentrical boring shapes and competing repetitions. What works very well when painting tree for example is that if you focus on the blue sky while you are painting and checking these surrounding spaces your shapes will improve. i bet that it fo do memory exercises fro two weeks you will gain a better memory. Or if you pay more attention to your dreams you will remember more dream fragments. Same works with art. The more you focus on avoiding shapes that are boring you develop a sense of recognizaing a pleaant shape from an unpleasant one. The idea is to flex the muscles of spatial expression (right side) not just verbal expression that comes from the left side.

"While there is definitely truth in the concept of brain lateralization & specialization, it's really not that simple. (See links below). So fear not, you can be a great artist (or sucky one) regardless of which way you saw her spinning." Boy i am glad you clarifies that. I never wanted to give the idea that because you saw the woman spinning ione way you can be an artist and if you saw her spinning another way you cannot be a good artist. What happens is that for ALL OF US she spins counter clockwise and then she shift and spin clocwise for ALL of us. It's just a matter of catching when the brain reverses the motion. I just didnt give you enough time to prove that so some of you thought she only would spin one way for you.

Catherine the Great
02-28-2011, 08:29 PM
There is no such thing as a left brain person or a right brain person. That is a myth. What is true is that we use both sides. The left side tends to work with speech as intellectual aspects and the right tends to work for the artistic expression and both sides work in unison. We all work from both hemispheres but from I have studied about this is that we use the right hemisiphere more for art and the left side deals more with intellect. I don't believe some people are more right brained than others. What I believe is that some people use more of it when they paint. This is not a faculty that favors that person from genetics. It is like developing a better memory. You work on it so both side of the brain cooperate. The idea is not to lean so much on the intellectual side because one will produce symmetrical shapes. Now this has nothing to do with the spinning woman. I just assumed that because the website mentioned it that how it worked. Betty Edwards wrote a book called, Drawing from the Right side of the Brain in which she proves that if we chnage our way of seeing things from the lintellectual brain our artwork will improve. She makes ample references to the artist focusing on the surrounding space when drawing along with the solid (positive) space so we just don't focus on the positive shape. As far as I know no one has disputed the fact that the artistic brain is the right brain. What I do know is that when an artists shifts his concentration on the negative space and by the same token the positive space, he will be able to avoid symmetry and repitions. Please take into account that I am not taking the spinning woman to make my whole point but all the otehr sceince behind it. But then again just calling it "right brain" is meaningless. The point I am teaching is to help the students visualize their negative spaces and become aware of cloned subjects etc. Whether this is right brain or not is irrelvant for that would just be words. the fact remains that if we must be trained to avoid symmentrical boring shapes and competing repetitions. What works very well when painting tree for example is that if you focus on the blue sky while you are painting and checking these surrounding spaces your shapes will improve. i bet that it fo do memory exercises fro two weeks you will gain a better memory. Or if you pay more attention to your dreams you will remember more dream fragments. Same works with art. The more you focus on avoiding shapes that are boring you develop a sense of recognizaing a pleaant shape from an unpleasant one. The idea is to flex the muscles of spatial expression (right side) not just verbal expression that comes from the left side.

"While there is definitely truth in the concept of brain lateralization & specialization, it's really not that simple. (See links below). So fear not, you can be a great artist (or sucky one) regardless of which way you saw her spinning." Boy i am glad you clarifies that. I never wanted to give the idea that because you saw the woman spinning ione way you can be an artist and if you saw her spinning another way you cannot be a good artist. What happens is that for ALL OF US she spins counter clockwise and then she shift and spin clocwise for ALL of us. It's just a matter of catching when the brain reverses the motion. I just didnt give you enough time to prove that so some of you thought she only would spin one way for you.

As one who has studied psychology I could not agree more. Thank-you for putting so much of your energy into these free classes. If you are ever in Wpg. let me know so I can meet up with you.
Thanks again.:wave:

Painterdee
02-28-2011, 09:16 PM
I have only started watching your webinar last weekend and for only an hour this Saturday. I am blown away at how much I have learned already! although I occasionally do landscapes I primarily do still lifes. I was able to apply some of your principles of asymmetric and avoiding bowls, lines, triangles and applied it to one of my still life paintings today and was able to figure out why it wasn't working (originally)...now it is so amazing! I love the improvements that were made based on these principles of design. I can't thank you enough for offering these classes for free! Can't wait for the next one!

susanc
02-28-2011, 09:59 PM
I think ColourSplasher brought up a very good point; some people allow themselves to become discouraged by things that shouldn't discourage them. In my first year at school, the common wisdom (or urban legend) was that the reason the art teachers were so hard on us was to drive out the people who didn't have the strength (or craziness?? :) ) to stay in and keep fighting to improve, despite harsh critiques or other disappointments.

My first art teacher at college, on the first day of class said that it's possible for someone to pass you in a hurry if you don't apply yourself. I've seen it happen at least twice. Two people who were worse than me suddenly caught fire and left me waaaaay behind in the dust. (There might be even more I've repressed somewhere in my memory!) The guy who passed me by worked on art constantly without breaks, and I don't think she needed her beauty sleep as desperately as I did/still do even more now!

One wonderful artist here said that she was told that she had no artistic talent. But she worked hard and she is, as I said, now a wonderful artist. Kevin Macpherson said his friends ridiculed his early work. My point is that if you enjoy it, don't let anyone or anything keep you from creating art. Who knows what will happen?!! I'm likely too old to ever become a master painter, but I'm definitely not too old to still enjoy the journey. :thumbsup:

sue burke
03-01-2011, 01:04 AM
Anyone looking for a free, but, excellent paint program should try TwistedBrush. I have the pro version that I love; but, the free version really good. It's easy to use too.

versailles 78
03-03-2011, 05:22 AM
Fortunately, Jo, we will have the downloadable versions of your classes for I would not like to miss one -and I will miss 5 live classes ....!!That's too bad ! Anyway, thank you so much for these classes which teach me enormously and so cleverly ! Thank you for your generosity in sharing so many important knowledge

Kumquat
03-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Sorry but I see 2 squares that repeat the exact same value. Each square needs to be different.

Hi, Johannes, I had to go out of town for a couple of days but am back now and I think I've fixed my value scale. Here it is:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2011/71540-value_scale.jpg
I hope it's right this time--otherwise, I'll have to switch from graphite to charcoal pencil so that my darkest value can be blacker. You can't go really dark with the graphite. I enjoy doing this because I believe practicing value scales is essential to learning to see values, just as musicians practice musical scales to learn to hear and become more proficient. As in music, there are major and minor modes in art--one can be bright, the other, somber and reflective, and values are essential in setting the tone for the piece in order to convey the message you intend. You have said all this in many different ways throughout this webinar, and I am looking so forward to the class tomorrow!

Marsha

Johannes Instructor
03-04-2011, 09:02 PM
Hi, Johannes, I had to go out of town for a couple of days but am back now and I think I've fixed my value scale. Here it is:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2011/71540-value_scale.jpg
I hope it's right this time--otherwise, I'll have to switch from graphite to charcoal pencil so that my darkest value can be blacker. You can't go really dark with the graphite. I enjoy doing this because I believe practicing value scales is essential to learning to see values, just as musicians practice musical scales to learn to hear and become more proficient. As in music, there are major and minor modes in art--one can be bright, the other, somber and reflective, and values are essential in setting the tone for the piece in order to convey the message you intend. You have said all this in many different ways throughout this webinar, and I am looking so forward to the class tomorrow!

Marsha
The second last and third last are too close to call them distinct values.