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colinbarclay
07-07-2000, 08:32 PM
Anyone used this paint yet ? I have a couple colours ( some cobalts, Avignon Orange -nice ! ) , but am interested in other opinions , good colours . Is the price justified ? Better than Old Holland ? Whats up with the weird binder ?
Colin

------------------
' True courage lies in the ability to sustain deep emotion '
iforgetwho

matteopaints
10-29-2006, 09:27 AM
If you want vibrant "Pure" colors, then look no further. Puro in Italian means pure, this is because they use more pigment and less additives, only poppy oil and pigment, that is why it costs more, because there is more color in the tube. Check out my website to see paintings made with this color which I have been using and loving for 7 years.:thumbsup:

Einion
10-29-2006, 01:15 PM
Matt, this thread is six years old!

Einion

matteopaints
10-29-2006, 07:00 PM
I did not look at the date when responding to this posting, I would have made a different wording to the comment that I made, however, the information is still valid, and I strongly support Maimeri Puro oil paints, today, as much as ever. If anyone has any further inquiries as to why I like this paint so much, fell free to contact me. :cool:

asciifish
10-30-2006, 07:58 AM
I was curious about them. I found a new tube of cad yellow on the ground a couple weeks back :eek:

I've been trying to summon up the nerve to use it, but I'm a little reluctant as I'm still quite green to painting and art in general, and I know they cost alot. So far I've just been working with Winton paints, which I am slowly starting to replace with other, artist quality bands, mostly Sennelier. I'm a bit worried that I'll get hooked on the premium stuff before my skills are at a level where I would need them, not to mention an upcoming severe drop in my income (going back to school).

matteopaints
10-30-2006, 11:34 AM
Certainly, for someone who is just starting to paint, Maimeri Puro is probably not the best paint to buy. Maimeri has a brand of oil paints for students called "Classico (http://www.maimeri.it/FineArts/colorprod.asp?mnu=0103)" which is affordable and will get you ready for when, in a couple of years you are ready for Maimeri Puro (http://www.maimeri.it/FineArts/colorprod.asp?mnu=0101), the best that they have to offer.:clap: However, don't think of Classico paints as inferior. They are made with the same exacting standards that you will find in "Puro", they just don't have the same concentration of pigments that "Puro" paints have per tube.:wave:

turlogh
10-30-2006, 12:38 PM
I've been trying to summon up the nerve to use it, but I'm a little reluctant as I'm still quite green to painting and art in general, and I know they cost alot. So far I've just been working with Winton paints, which I am slowly starting to replace with other, artist quality bands, mostly Sennelier. I'm a bit worried that I'll get hooked on the premium stuff before my skills are at a level where I would need them, not to mention an upcoming severe drop in my income (going back to school).
It's hard enough to learn how to paint with oils without handicapping yourself with low-quality paint. An experienced oil painter can compensate for "student" quality oil paint; a beginner will just struggle and wonder why he/she can't make the paint behave properly. If you have a limited budget, my recommendation is to buy fewer tubes of good paint rather than many tubes of marginal paint.

gunzorro
10-30-2006, 02:56 PM
I have become a big fan of the Puro line.
To clarify: the binding oil is a combination of poppy and safflower throughout the line.
I certainly agree with matteopaints -- they have the most pure and vibrant colors and can be found for almost 1/2 their OH counterparts in the upper series. It is a looser paint, and some tubes a little oily, but the powerful tinting strength makes up for that, in my opinion.
The Puro line is at its best in the cadmiums and cobalts, but even the earth colors are impressive. It's Kings Blue is unusual in that it is made with genuine Cobalt Blue + white, unlike almost every other premium maker that uses Ultramarine Blue -- the color of Puro KB Light and Deep are incredibly rich and . . . pure! :)
Avignon Orange is the first one I tried, on recommendation from Trisha Hardwick. It is a unique color (not "orange" at all!), unmatched in any other brand I am familiar with.
A couple low series to try: Kings Blue (Light or Deep), Mars Brown, Yellow Ochre Light and Raw Sienna Deep, and tell me those aren't uniquely beautiful! :)
For the more adventurous big spenders, try Avignon Orange, Cad Red Light (or any cadmium red or yellow), Cerulean Blue, Golden Lake and Cobalt Green Deep.
Please let us know what you think about the Puro line.

Brian Firth
10-30-2006, 05:50 PM
Warning! The Maimeri Golden Lake is no longer Quinacridone Gold PO49, but Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide PY42. A friend of mine recently purchased this Puro color online as was very disappointed to find it was no longer PO49 and had paid quite a lot for a normally pretty cheap transparent yellow iron oxide. The tube even still said PO49 on the label but, sure enough it was PY42. Maimeri also says they have discontinued using PO49 and have replaced it with PY42. So, it really isn't worth $15-$20 for a transparent Iron Oxide. The Maimeri Puro colors are great but I would avoid the Golden Lake unless you can find an older tube that is the real PO49. I am ordering the Avignon Orange (PR206) in my next Dickblick.com order.

gunzorro
10-30-2006, 06:46 PM
That is terrible news! I had heard the rumblings throughout the paint world that Quin Gold pigment would no longer be available. That is a shame. Doak still sells it, but the Puro shade was unique. I'd better hoard mine.
Thanks Brian.

Brian Firth
10-30-2006, 07:37 PM
Jim,
What was unique about the Puro shade? Was it the reddish shade or the more golden yellow?

Daniel Smith also sells it in oils and it is the golden yellow shade, which they call the "green shade". I prefer the brighter yellow shade to the more reddish shade of some PO49's. The Daniel Smith supposedly doesn't have real strong tinting strength, but we don't really have many choices.

colin
10-31-2006, 10:05 AM
wow . Ive gotten my hair cut since then !
Still havent used up any of those Puros either :)

gunzorro
10-31-2006, 11:39 AM
colin -- :)

Brian -- this should give some relation between some various tranaparent golds and oranges.
I can't state that this Puro color is not PY42. But it is a terrific color, brighter and better in washes than Transparent Yellow Oxides in my collection. Even if it is an earth, the price is not necessarily out of line -- many top brands have considerably higher prices on transparent earths than they do for regular opaque earths.
Hope this helps show the various colors. Pigments on poly/cotton canvas with acrylic primer, thinned with MS.

Top to bottom: Maimeri Puro Golden Lake, Doak Quina Gold, Williamsburg Alizarin Orange, Gamblin Transparent Orange, Art Spectrum Australian Red Gold.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/gunzorro/IMG_9606web.jpg

Brian Firth
10-31-2006, 12:55 PM
Jim,
Thanks for posting this. I am aware that there are more reddish versions of PO49 and that is what the Maimeri Puro looks like. It is almost certainly PO49. The easiest way to tell for sure is in a tint with white. The PO49 will have a considerably brighter tint than a transparent iron oxide.

The Doak doesn't look anything like any version of PO49. It appears to be a bright reddish orange? Of course Doak doesn't reveal color index names, so who knows what it is. I sincerely doubt it is pure PO49.

I have attached an image of Winsor and Newton Finity Acrylic Quinacridone Gold PO49 compared with W&N Finity Raw Sienna which is a transparent yellow iron oxide (PY42) with a very small amount of transparent red iron oxide (PR101). The W&N PO49 is the very yellow golden shade, that same that was used in their watercolors. This is the same shade of PO49 that Daniel Smith uses. In real life the difference is much more apparent.

Of course I'd love to have the Puro and Daniel Smith version!

TinaD
10-31-2006, 05:30 PM
I had a teacher (early on) who said that you should only use the good stuff from the get go. It made a huge difference, colors richer, less muddiness a certain brilliance. Even though it was precious I am grateful for the suggestion...for me it wasn't too terrible since I paint thin:-)

Might have to try the Maimeri Puro some time...I just love my Old Hollands so much though:-)

Howard Metzenberg
10-31-2006, 11:08 PM
Don't blame the manufacturer (Maimeri) for changing the ingredients (Quinacridone Gold PO49).

This is a good example of how changing tastes and fashions, as well as the technical demands of other industries, can end up affecting art materials. Quinacridone Gold was a popular color in paint formulas used in the auto industry for many years, and the art materials industry was only a minor purchaser. For whatever reason, the auto industry stopped using the paint, so chemical manufacturers discontinued the pigment. Of course, it could be made in smaller batches, but without the economies of scale that were a given when it was popular in color formulas for cars. You wouldn't want to pay for it. Almost all art material suppliers have discontinued its use.

Although no oil paint with PO49 is available today, to my knowledge, I've heard reports that Daniel Smith put away a large supply before it was discontinued, for use in his proprietary watercolor line. He was certainly farsighted. I've always wanted to meet Daniel Smith, but I've never had the chance. I've always felt that it is gracious to speak well of other people in the industry. I think we're a better company because our competitors are so good.

Other manufacturers have been developing substitute colors. Here's a note from Golden on the discontinuation of Quinacridone Gold in the acrylics field:

http://www.goldenpaints.com/company/whatsnew/2004/qngoldchng.php

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

matteopaints
11-05-2006, 11:24 AM
Hey everybody,

it is so great to see the enthusiam that this thread has generated. Recently I visited the Maimeri factory in Milano, and I was told that their paints are made from original materials, that their pigments are pure, only the best quality pigments are used and only oil is mixed in to make Maimeri Puro oil paints. I actually think that their prices are low compared to the quality of the paint that you are buying. If you learn to paint lean, then a tube of paint goes a long way. I always compare a tube of Maimeri Puro to a fine bottle of wine, it seems to cost alot when you are at the store, but then at home you really appreciate what you have brought into your life.:thumbsup:

asciifish
11-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Well, I finally summoned up the will to use the tube of cad yellow I found. Nothing but profane shouts of joy since! I had been using artist quality senneliers mostly, and this makes them look like Winton paints. Suddenly, the meaning of fairly mysterious phrases like 'pigment load' and 'covering power' (and 'hard to work with out of the tube') all have meaning.

Howard Metzenberg
11-06-2006, 12:22 AM
Changes in tastes lead to discontinuation of an important artist pigment. Did anyone see the New York Times Book Review today? There is a review of a new book about the fraternity at Dartmouth College that inspired Animal House, the movie (1978). And there is a picture from the movie showing Belushi and the gang (Bluto Blutarsky) in front of their bright Quinacridone Gold convertible sportscar.

By the way, there are a number of Quinacridone Golds on the market that are not PO49, but PO48. An example is the Williamsburg Oils Quinacridone Gold. So the market does not even agree on what Quinacridone Gold is.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

Howard Metzenberg
11-06-2006, 12:47 AM
Matthew,

Let me give you an industry insider perspective on Maimeri and its American importer. I can see that you live in Italy, and you are a great enthusiast for this company and its products. This is my impression from having met the American importers, who work out of a warehouse in the Chicago area.

Maimeri and its importers have depended too much on the channels to finance the importation of Maimeri paint into the United States. What I mean by this is, instead of investing in a big enough inventory of the paint, and some to the special sets, to be able to effectively distribute them themselves, they relied on cutting deals at cutrate prices to pay for their product. Now I don't know if this was the fault of the American importers, who may have been underfinanced, or of the Italian manufacturers, who may have been trying to stuff too much through the channel and may have offered such deals to the American importers.

In any case, the result was that "Maimeri Paint is on sale" became a big joke to all of us art materials industry folks. Promotions of Maimeri products lost some of their punch, and the retailers who put in a rack of Maimeri one year watched the "street" price go from 30% off to 40% off to 50% off and even beyond.

The end result has been that many of the smaller retailers that embraced Maimeri in the 1990s have been dropping them. Remember, a smaller art store can support only so many racks of paint. Increasingly, Maimeri is not one of them, and the brand is losing favor right now in America.

Maimeri's biggest sin was to keep pushing more into the channel. Also, they thought they could sell at different prices to different people. But with the Internet, you cannot do that anymore. By lowering prices, they screwed the folks who bought the rack earlier. They made their brand name into a joke, and small retailers yanked their rack out to replace it with M. Graham, Gamblin, and sometimes premium lines like Old Holland or Williamsburg.

Now, somebody at Maimeri may be listening to this. Frankly, I doubt it. I am always amazed by how un-Internet savvy the entire art materials industry is. It took me years to convince people of the importance of the Internet as a marketing channel. I've told reps from several companies they should become active in supporting Wet Canvas as advertisers, but few of them seem to be listening.

Now from the consumer perspective, the result of this all was some cheap paint. I have nothing against cheap paint, but I know that cheap paint can't last forever. Blick will always be there with a price that is fair to you. We'll have Maimeri in its own rack, next to a dozen or so other artist grade oils, in our larger stores, where there is room for that many brands. But Maimeri is going to have to figure out how to restore its luster with a lot of people to get back into those small stores that once took them in, and then dropped them.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

Einion
11-07-2006, 03:27 AM
Thanks for the pic of the various paints there Jim http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2003/3842-thumbsup.gif


Recently I visited the Maimeri factory in Milano, and I was told that their paints are made from original materials, that their pigments are pure, only the best quality pigments are used...
Most paints made today are made with 'pure' pigments and they tend to be "best quality" too.

...and only oil is mixed in to make Maimeri Puro oil paints.
This has been claimed by a number of paint makers over the years. If their paint lasts well in the tube for extended periods, across the range of colours, I can tell you that it's very unlikely to true.

Einion

matteopaints
11-11-2006, 07:33 AM
Dear Howard,

Thank you for your detailed insider's point of view from the industry. I, of course, am a consumer of art supplies, not a distributor, so I guess that none of this information has ever reached me before. I really appreciate your honesty about a sticky subject such as industry favor of one product or another. I was told that Maimeri does not sell their product directly to the artist, only through stores. I guess it is possible that they ran into some trouble with their distribution system in the USA, this is too bad. It is too bad, because their product is top notch and deserves the credit that I give it, especially Maimeri Puro. I will bring up your concerns with the company reps in Milano and see if they are aware of the problem. You are right about the internet changing everything, even this conversation would not be possible without it!

Matthew Bates

jdadson
11-11-2006, 09:20 AM
Is poppy seed oil and safflower "the good stuff"?

gunzorro
11-11-2006, 10:07 AM
Some artists dispute anything other than the most popular linseed-based drying oils. So it is somewhat an opinion as to what oils constitute the "good stuff".
Safflower is probably the latest to arrive on the scene, but poppy and walnut have long history of mixing with pigments to make oil paints.
I have tried enough of these "alternate" oils and read enough about artists that have used them in the past to be satisfied that they offer benefits in color brilliance not available in the linseed varieties. Linseed is yellow from the start and increased its yellowing as it ages.
Stand oil, a refined cooked version of linseed, is largely exempt from the yellowing, but its viscosity and leveling makes it a poor choice as a mixing oil to produce paint. It is a better choice as a component of painting mediums.
Linseed is said to provide a stronger paint film than any other oil, but how strong is enough? My opinion is that any of the four main drying oils have proven they are up to the task.
All these oils are inter-blendable, so you can used paints or mediums made with any of the oils to achieve a sort of commonality of strength and brilliance. In other words, have no fear mixing poppy-based with linseed-based, for example.
One other small distinction is the three "alternative" oils compared to linseed -- they exhibit a slickness in application, making them very painter-friendly to use and blend. Poppy and walnut are particularly noted for providing this in velvety paints.
Finally, with regard to Puro -- is it the oil, the grinding, or the pigments that provide such brilliant and strong paint colors? All the above, most likely.

term8or
11-11-2006, 10:18 AM
All these oils are inter-blendable, so you can used paints or mediums made with any of the oils to achieve a sort of commonality of strength and brilliance. In other words, have no fear mixing poppy-based with linseed-based, for example.


This is completely true for direct paint application. The only thing I would add to that is that different types of oils dry at different speeds, which can effect their usefulness in different applications. With glazing, some people say that using a faster drying oil over a slower drying oil can cause the paint to crack. I have never experienced this myself.

Howard Metzenberg
11-13-2006, 02:33 AM
Matthew,

Just in the last six months, two of what I consider the "Big Eight" of online art supplies retailing (in the United States) have discontinued Maimeri Puro. When Mister Art discontinues a product, they usually don't put up any flags to tell you so. They quietly stop reordering it, and let their inventory dwindle away. At this time, they appear to be out of most of the more popular colors.

There is nothing wrong with the paint. It surely deserves a good reputation. Maimeri also offers some unique oil mediums.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

matteopaints
11-13-2006, 06:50 AM
Dear Howard,


What would you suggest that Maimeri do to regain its American base?

Johnnie
11-13-2006, 08:25 AM
Anyone used this paint yet ? I have a couple colours ( some cobalts, Avignon Orange -nice ! ) , but am interested in other opinions , good colours . Is the price justified ? Better than Old Holland ? Whats up with the weird binder ?
Colin

------------------
' True courage lies in the ability to sustain deep emotion '
iforgetwho

Hi

Its one of THE best companies around to get paints from and their product is even better than the company.

Myself personally after using just their primaries will buy nothing else from now on.. Just luscious paints.

Johnnie

Johnnie
11-13-2006, 08:28 AM
colin -- :)

Brian -- this should give some relation between some various tranaparent golds and oranges.
I can't state that this Puro color is not PY42. But it is a terrific color, brighter and better in washes than Transparent Yellow Oxides in my collection. Even if it is an earth, the price is not necessarily out of line -- many top brands have considerably higher prices on transparent earths than they do for regular opaque earths.
Hope this helps show the various colors. Pigments on poly/cotton canvas with acrylic primer, thinned with MS.

Top to bottom: Maimeri Puro Golden Lake, Doak Quina Gold, Williamsburg Alizarin Orange, Gamblin Transparent Orange, Art Spectrum Australian Red Gold.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/gunzorro/IMG_9606web.jpg


Lol.. And some folks still keep saying all the paints are all the same..

Really good example there that they are NOT.!!!

Thanks for posting that

Johnnie

Brian Firth
11-13-2006, 11:35 AM
Is poppy seed oil and safflower "the good stuff"?


This comes back to the subjective nature of the "best" oil paints. I for one, would never consider a cobalt violet light in linseed oil to be the best quality paint. I have seen a cobalt violet light lose its radiance and dull as it dries in linseed oil and another cobalt violet light in poppy oil stay just as brilliant as it was out of the tube when dried. This also goes for cerulean blue, manganese blue, cobalt teal, and any other color for which the yellow hue of linseed oil would act as a complementary color that neutralizes the pure pigment hue. Cobalt Violet Light is certainly one of the most affected by the yellowing of linseed oil and is also a color most likely to be used pure where the yellowing would be most important. To counteract this, I actually take the time to put my cobalt violet light on a paper towel to drain as much of the linseed oil as possible until the paint is very dry. I then reconstitute the paint with poppy or walnut oil and it makes a huge difference in the purity of the pure color when dry. Of course, many colors are not affected by the yellowing and linseed oil is perfectly fine and generally superior. Also when mixed with white in tints the yellowing is much less impacting for most of these colors and not near as important. However, for those particular colors where it really counts when used pure for maximum impact, like cobalt violet light, I prefer paint companies that use the most appropriate oils to maintain the purity of the pigments color to those who do not. This is my subjective standard. I could care less how much stronger the paint film is if the linseed oil yellows and this is the complement of the color I am using. I have done the comparisons and no matter what, certain colors mulled in linseed oil just canít compare to the beauty of the same colors mulled in the less yellowing oils. Are they completely ruined by the yellowing? No, but by my standards this is at the top of my priorities and I feel the safflower/poppy/walnut/sunflower oil colors are superior in color retention. This is why I consider Winsor and Newton to be one of the absolute best paint companies. Their years of experience and research really show in their formulas and, in my experience, are the absolute top of the line in maintaining pure color in their paints. This is my criteria and may not be very important to a painter who seldom uses pure colors for maximum impact, but it is to me!

gunzorro
11-13-2006, 11:51 AM
term8or -- they do dry at different rates, but this is no more worrisome (probably less) than pigments that dry at different rates in any oil. There are fast drying pigments (generally, earths and cobalts) and very slow drying pigments such as most blacks, cadmiums and reds. No one ever frets to mix these pigments together with regard to drying rates.

Brian -- Very good points about the color purity! Thanks.
I would say that overall linseed is the "best" oil for mixing or for mediums, and with certain warm colors it actually enhances the pigment, but . . . Perhaps the paint manufacturers are not so far off in assessing safflower as the best all around compromise oil for color rendition, drying speed and smooth handling. It is not my favorite choice, but I have to admit to its positive characteristics with a wide range of pigments.
Blockx uses linseed in its earths and warmer colors, poppy in the others. Puro's use of a poppy/safflower blend for all its colors makes sense as well -- everything is consistent in handling, drying and chemistry. Is it the "best" choice for all pigments? I don't think so, but on an average it may be so. The colors certainly glow with beauty.

Alfieri
09-27-2012, 10:17 PM
I think that Daniel Smith is the only that still have the PO49

Alfieri
09-27-2012, 10:18 PM
Anyone knows what pigments is used in the AS Australian Red Gold ?

sandman_us
09-28-2012, 12:13 AM
Per Amazon.com:

Pigments used in this color: PR101, PY83, PR122, PV19