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View Full Version : Where's the airbrush, damnit!


captan
01-13-2003, 09:03 AM
I just bought myself a copy of Photoshop Elements 2 and the first thing I notice is that there is no airbrush in the Toolbar! Instead it's located under the PaintBrush tool and it says "Set to enable airbrush capabilities" whatever that means. The thing is - it doesn't appear to make any difference to the strokes if it is on or off.

Could someone please explain to me what the difference between the airbrush and a regular brush in PSE2 is? The airbrush was my favourite tool in PS5LE - I used it for everything!

The next thing that I'm a bit confused about is PSE2's tablet support. In PS5LE I could specify the brush sencitivity to apply for opacity, color and size - but most importantly I could set the airbrush sencitivity to apply for pressure and color.

In PSE2 there is only a button you click for "tablet support" - and all it effects is the size of the brush!

This is absolutely terrible - I can't work with digital images like this - why did they do this to me?

(I'm using a Wacom Intous tablet with the latest driver for MacOSX)

madster
01-13-2003, 10:09 AM
Captan, Elements is like Photoshop "Lite", but the old LE did have more "oomph."

I'm amazed that you were able to set LE for PRESSURE, as Adobe was supposedly not able to code that into the program until 7.0 (which was one reason I upgraded from 6.01!) That is why "tablet support" is listed...

As for adjustments, I can't help much as I'm running full-blown PS7 on a Wacom for Windows...here, the adjustments for the airbrush are on the top menubar, and once you adjust opacity and flow, it remains even when you go back to regular brush, which is now brush or pencil.

Have you tried the Photoshop Mac forum over at Adobe.com? They have some really roficient individuals over there from all over the world who know the program in all it's variations inside out, and the moderators include some of the development team who've coded the program.

Hope you can find the answers you seek!

RogerPf
01-13-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by captan
This is absolutely terrible - I can't work with digital images like this - why did they do this to me?


Why? - because they want you to buy PS7.

I think that you mean -

"those ********* they have betrayed the trust
I placed in them by sticking with their products. :( "

I agree. I suspect that this is one on the reasons
why their programs get "copied" so much.

captan
01-13-2003, 01:05 PM
Yeah I know it's "LITE" I can't afford PS7 for $600 - but for $80 I would want some decent support for my tablet. I would trade every single one of PSE2's filters and effects and "WOW"-this and that (transparent buttons my ass) for the airbrush and decent tablet support.

The only thing I like about PSE is how it handles layers and the undo history. This sucks. :(

madster
01-13-2003, 01:41 PM
But Captan,
It's kind of a "you get what you pay for" situation...

You have to remember that Photoshop Elements is not and was not designed for what you want to use it for...it was made for the Home User, who wants to make the pictures of Fluffy and Grandma look better and enclose them with e-mails...

For "professional" usage, Adobe makes its professional product, at a professional price. I for one would hate to see the $100 version do everything my Full Blown does...that's part of what I paid for is that power...if you want all the bells and whistles of the latest technology, ya gotta pay to play. That's just the way the game goes. Those programmers deserve to get paid for the work they've done.

You might want to check out Paint Shop Pro, which also only runs about $100, and you still should check out Adobe.com. By registering with them, and letting them know you have 5LE, you might qualify for special upgrade prices, which they ocassionally offer. I was able to qualify for Illustrator 10 for only $149 as a Photoshop owner, and picked up GoLive 6 for half price for the same reason.

captan
01-13-2003, 04:49 PM
Exactly - and one would expect that a version that cost $80 would be better than one that I got for free - five years ago! Especially since it renders my precious tablet almost useless! Of course the pro version should be better - but the lite version should not be a rip off either - especially if it is a commersial lite version that cost money.

I paid to get a version of lite-photoshop that is better than the previous lite versions - isn't this common sence?

But instead of improving that what was good in the previous lite versions - they take it all away and stuff it up with stupid filters and effects and "Hints" and all that which is just surface polish.

There is a minimum requirement what a photoshop app should contain and one of these things is tablet support. I mean - Every other person has a tablet these days - are they saying that we, "the not so rich amateurs" don't have the right to use our tablets, which we have paid lot's of money to get, at full capacity?

I wonder what Wacom thinks of this....?

madster
01-13-2003, 07:50 PM
Wacom isn't too concerned, as Adobe has yet to code for the 1024 levels of pressure the Wacom is capable of...that's why Painter, also at an ungodly price is the app of choice for wacom users...

BTW, you can get Painter 7 for about $200 as a Wacom owner. It's not as precise in many ways as PS, but gives you full size opacity and other options for pressure, tilt, velocity, etc...

sherville
01-14-2003, 01:06 AM
Umm... I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, I may have missed it, if so, I apologise, but Photoshop 7 has that same airbrush set up... "Set to enable airbrush capabilities" under the normal paintbrush thing.

I reckon you can probably use it just like always, it's probably just more fiddling to get it... They needed to make room for the new tools somehow... Anyway, I bet on the internet somewhere it explains all about it.

dk_art
01-14-2003, 07:29 AM
There was a downloadable demo of elements wasn't there? Did you download the demo before buying (usually 30 day ) ... that would be my suggestion for the future.

Can you return the software? Isn't there a cheaper upgrade path to PS full from your older PS LE or even this ner Elements (I don't know as I don''t use adobe)?

blkros
01-14-2003, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by dk_art
Can you return the software? Isn't there a cheaper upgrade path to PS full from your older PS LE or even this ner Elements (I don't know as I don''t use adobe)?

No there isn't. I can't even upgrade from 5.5 to 7. Because of the changes in the code, I need at least PS 6 to upgrade to 7. :(

RogerPf
01-14-2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by blkros
I can't even upgrade from 5.5 to 7. Because of the changes in the code, I need at least PS 6 to upgrade to 7. :(

The PS7 upgrade DOES upgrade from WINDOWS 5 and 5.5 !!

a) it did it for me last month and
b) it said so on the box

It also covers upgrade from PS4 (but you have to send them some sort of proof of ownership.)

Caveat this certainly true for the windows/International English version but I suppose it is possible that they have some other policy for MAC and or US English.

HOWEVER - when PS7 came out all the distributors and their web site were ADVERTISING it as being a version 6 to 7 upgrade. Last month I ordered a wacom and noticed that the advert for the WIN PS7 upgrade now said "Photoshop v5/v6 to v7 Version upgrade".

captan
01-14-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by dk_art
There was a downloadable demo of elements wasn't there? Did you download the demo before buying (usually 30 day ) ... that would be my suggestion for the future.


Well,.. *duh!* :rolleyes: :p

I downloaded the demo 5-6 months ago and tried it for a couple of days. It was PSE1 I think. As you could not save anything with it - it was thrown into the trash pretty soon... I never thought of checking on these things as it didn't appear to me as realistic that PSE would be worse than PS5LE.... Besides - if there was no airbrush for instance one would only assume it was disabled in the demo version. Trust me - I've been on adobe's site more than once trying to get some decent specs on PSE and PS7 as well allthough it's out of my price range - but they are pretty good at covering up the negative stats (isn't that the golden rule of selling/advertisement - only to bring fourth the positive stuff about the product?).

I was stupid to trust adobe - I know.

madster
01-14-2003, 12:36 PM
The advertising pages of course are going to put the products in a postive light...duh!

But I went into the Photoshop Elements Forum, trying to see if there was a workaround for your problem, and there it was in a post how the only thing you can adjust with a table in Elements 2 is the size, and how to turn that off if you wish...

The forums are where people tell the problems they have, and the answers are where you see if it's the product or the user.

I didn't look that hard, but there is probably a thread regarding the shortcomings of Elements compared to Full Blown PS...

There are probably also comparison articles elsewhere on the web if you did a search engine for comparisons...

RogerPf
01-14-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by madster
I didn't look that hard, but there is probably a thread regarding the shortcomings of Elements compared to Full Blown PS...


But that's not the betrayal being complained of.

Adobe had a loyal customer of their PS Lite product. A customer who had invested a lot of time, energy (and some money) in that product. Suddenly that product is discontinued and Adobe waves a gracious hand and says please Mr Customer come over here to "PS Elements" land.

But when the customer gets there ...

madster
01-14-2003, 03:01 PM
Adobe didn't do any hand waving!

Captan had PS LE, which although he says was "free" probably came along with something else he had purchased as a bonus add on.

The no longer make that product. Being as technology advances, Captan, with his new Mac OSX might not have been able to use LE on his new operating system. That is NOT Adobe's fault, that's APPLE's doing.

Also in the name of technological advancements, Adobe's products too have advanced, to where they now have a "hobbyest" version and a "professional" version, whereas in the older applications, they just took some options off PS5 (which is QUITE a bit less powerful than PS7!) and provided it as LE...

Your "betrayal" scenario is only in your head. Captan could have kept using LE, but his NEW Operating System from Apple won't run it. Why is that Adobe's fault? Just because Window's XP won't run an ancient greeting card software app that I got for free when I bought my printer 3 years ago, is it the software companies fault?
PuhLeeze!

RogerPf
01-14-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by madster
Adobe didn't do any hand waving!
...
PuhLeeze!

We certainly disagree on a number of points here. I wonder if this is a cultural Europe v US divide? Interesting

(IMO has nothing to do with OS versions or win mac divide). The "betrayal of loyalty" still applies if you have been running 98 since you first got a computer.

If I buy a $200 scanner and it comes with software then I have paid good money for that software. (If is comes "free" on the cover of some magazine then that's different).

The hand waving is in the price. If you used to buy something at $40 aprox value and are then asked to choose between a $100 or a $600 product the pointing is in the price.

If you come back to me and say the PS LE range was of higher value that $40 and the Adobe "subsidised" it. I agree.

That "subsidy" was a calculated way of buying brand loyalty. It worked. The betrayal then comes in the removal of key features from the entry level product range (whatever it is currently called).

--

I am curious if these community/trust assumptions are one of the few cultural things that the Brits share with the other Europeans and so don't share with the more market oriented culture of North America.