A village in Alsace (project France)

[Raindrop]

Hello everybody!

I have a bit of a problem with the scene I'm trying to depict. It's for the project "Vive la France", so I've decided to draw what I know: a village in Alsace, the place I come from.

I am a total beginner in drawing, and in composition in particular. It's the first time I'm trying to do something else than a "vignette", so I really need your advice.

In particular, I'm afraid that the viewer's eye escapes the painting at the right. I've drawn a fountain, but is it enough? I will also shade the ground with the shadow of a tree.

I'm sorry about the quality of the picture, the light is pretty poor here and I just couldn't wait till tomorrow :rolleyes:

So, if you want to play with my sketch, and move objects around and so on... here it is:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jan-2003/17300-ProjectFrance_compo01.jpg

Thank you :)

[Mary Riggs]

Hi !

I love your sketch, but the first thing I noticed was that the buildings are too far to the right in the drawing. If they were positioned toward the left side I think the drawing would be in more of a balance.

I look forward to seeing the finished painting. The drawing reminds me of some town plazas I saw in Germany.

JUST WONDERFUL !!!

I LIKE THE MOVEMENT AND "PLAYFUL" AIR IT HAS.


MARY

[henrik]

The buildings look a bit off in perspective and I agree that it looks like they have slided a bit too far to the right.
I also don't think you absolutely need foreground objects and compositional stops - decide on where you want the main focus first and develop that first - work on the elements that guide the eye back to that area.

Think about how you "invite the eye" (typically from the left as westerners are acustomed to read from left to right). Make sure the invite leads to the focal point.

The way you have the fountain now you risk creating to much interest in that corner - instead of stopping the eye from going of canvas you risk strong atttraction and then nothing that stops the eye from going off the right edge (the very thing you tried to prevent).

I think you may have added the fountain as you did not have anything that held the focus strongly inside the picture. Try that and then see if you want to keep the fountain.

BTW, right now I think the focal point is the bicycle; it has a hard contrast, it has many line shapes (they attract the eye), and it is in the sweet spot.

I think your invite is fine (dog, girl, boy, goose) - but then my eye goes to the bicycle and stops there. If you keep the bicylce you need something that pulls the eye back down to the circular motion created (dog-girl-boy-goose) but the fountain has a strong upward motion and thus we are stuck at the bicylce.

I don't know if my ramblings are understandable ;) I hope they are of help.

[henrik]

Here is a suggestion - as you can see I moved things around and tried to place focus on the figures and goose.

[henrik]

This was how I read the original...

[Raindrop]

The drawing reminds me of some town plazas I saw in Germany.

He he, well spotted, Alsace looks a bit like Germany anyway (houses, food, even the local dialect...). To the point that, sometimes, tourists are not sure whether they are in France or Germany :rolleyes:

Henrik, I think I understand what you mean. I agree completely! There was something I didn't like in this fountain... As for the focus on the bike, it's funny, because the bike itself has a strong emotional meaning for me. I didn't want to put the focus on it, but obviously my emotions were stronger. Funny that... Anyway, I will tame down the bike a little. It's rusty and far away.

I like the idea of adding a third house. I adds lots of depth to the whole picture! I have to ask you, though, what's the volume you put on the right? I could probably put some straw here, as the scene takes place in the countryside.

Oh, and you're right about the problem with perspective... just starting here as well, I just completed John Hagan's tutorials. I simply need more practice, I think :D The fact that the paper is bent doesn't help at all :(

Sorry again for the poor quality of the sketch and the photo I took of it. I am a newbie, and it takes me a ridiculous amount of time to draw something pretty rough :) And for the photo... well, I'll buy some BlueTac today. Should help a bit ;)

[henrik]

The volume on the right was supposed to look like a cart with sacks of grain in front of it. Maybe some spilled grain on the ground - sort of explains what is going on a bit more "children chasing goose on food hunt". Attached is a detail with lines more pronounced... - just an idea to get a curved shape (the leftmost sack).

[henrik]

Or, where you thinking about the gray thing to the right of the cart? That could be the edge of the fountain, or whatever.

[Raindrop]

No, I was talking about the cart. Great idea!

For the perspective, I think I've been overdoing it a bit, haven't I? :p I was so excited about the new notions I had, I wanted everything to vanish at the edge of the page :D

I'm thinking of extending the second house and add a barn to it (in place of the third house), so I can break the line of the roofs... I'm working on it, I'll post it asap!

[Raindrop]

OK, I've drawn the barn I was talking about. The quality of the photographs is awful: I'm a fidget, and it seems I just can't take a picture without moving. :mad:

I've fiddled a bit with the computer. The dark patch on the right is supposed to be some grass. My oh, drawing with a mouse is difficult! ;) That's my first try, I'm going to do another attempt and include the cart (I really like this idea).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2003/17300-EssaiAlsace01.jpg

Is the perspective better? I'm afraid the dog-children-goose are too central now.

OK, back to the drawing-board!

[Raindrop]

Here's the one with the cart. I have changed the orientation of the houses (and squashed the left building while playing with the "skew" function, oops).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2003/17300-EssaiAlsace02.jpg

Now I'm worried because I don't manage to link the background and the foreground together... if you see what I mean :confused:

What I have been trying to do, for the viewer's eye, is:
- the eye first sees the dog, and follow the path dog-girl-boy-goose
- it goes on till the cart
- then, hopefully, it bounces back by following the barn-house-bike-second house
- and goes back to the dog, with the helpful assistance of Mrs-Leaning-At-The-Window (the dark patch on the left house)

Hrmmppf, wishful thinking. I'm sure it's not what's happening for a non-biased viewer (i.e., not me). All of this is really stimulating, anyway!

[eezacque]

With all these constructive comments I think your nice idea is starting to land somewhere. Let me add my idea on perspective.

What disturbs me is that the figures in the street seem to be way too large. If I extrapolate some of the horizontal lines, I come to the conclusion that the horizon is high, which implies that the spectator is also high; I think at the same level
as the person hanging out of the window on the first floor.

If I draw imaginary view lines from the spectator's eye through the top of the girl's head and her feet, I estimate her to be so big that her head touches the ceiling of the house, which is probably not what you want.

[Raindrop]

Ooops, the girl wasn't meant to be that big! I haven't been careful enough with the size of the characters. Thank you for pointing that to me! Now that I'm aware of the problem, I should be able to find what should be the right size for them. Hopefully.

I have troubles finding exactly where the horizon line is, when the vanishing points are out of the paper. So, if I understand well, if I want my spectator's eye to be at, say, the door level, I need to put the horizon line lower than it is at the moment... It will change the size of the buildings, of course. And it will change the relationship between the background and the foreground (size and position of the characters), won't it?

OK, I need to try out a few things. Back to my beloved pencils! :)

[eezacque]

Originally posted by Raindrop
So, if I understand well, if I want my spectator's eye to be at, say, the door level, I need to put the horizon line lower than it is at the moment... It will change the size of the buildings, of course. And it will change the relationship between the background and the foreground (size and position of the characters), won't it?

The good news is that there isn't that much perspective in your drawing. The only noticable perspective is in the sides and roofs of the houses, which point away from the spectator: these are tilted upwards towards a high horizon. All you need to do to put the horizon lower, say at door level, is to decrease this tilt of the sides of the buildings, which leaves the rest of your drawing pretty much intact.

Take some time to think about the eye level of your spectator, who will be kind enough to stand exactly where you want him ;) If you want to make the leftmost girl the focus of your drawing, then it might be a good idea to choose your eye level at her eye level.

Having chosen your eye level, draw the horizon at this level to help you in your perspective construction.

Then comes the easy part. All of your houses are built in the same orientation, so all lines of walls and roofs will meet in one vanishing point on your horizon. Give it a try!

[Raindrop]

Yes! I think I've understood, this time :)

I have started from scratch again: I was not too happy with the left house anyway, notwithstanding the perspective problem.
I don't have any pictures to show you (yet), but I think it's getting there! The girl and boy are almost the same size as before, but they don't look like giants anymore ;) The buildings are just a wee bit taller, not much... but the roofs are tilted downwards. So, as you said, there was not much to modify after all...

When you think about it, it's incredible how you can modify the perception of the size and distance of objects just by changing one angle or two!
And the other incredible thing is that you can guide the spectator and make him look at what you want to :) It's just so... interesting!

[Raindrop]

OK, I've worked on it quite a bit, even if it's far from completion (I'm so slow, you wouldn't believe it!)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2003/17300-Version20jan2003_crop2.jpg

I think it's taking shape, this time, and the giants are back to a more usual size. I've removed the bike - as this particular bike needs a drawing of its own, really. And I finally don't know if I put the cart or not... We'll see! :)

Anyway, I'm sure this time that my drawing will not end in the rubbish bin... thanks to all of you! :clap: :clap: It's important to me, as it's intended to be a gift for my father. I've got limited abilities, but I want to do my best!

[eezacque]

Originally posted by Raindrop
I think it's taking shape, this time, and the giants are back to a more usual size.

The scene now has a more intimate atmosphere, with me, as spectator, being part of it...

It's important to me, as it's intended to be a gift for my father. I've got limited abilities, but I want to do my best!

It's not these so-called 'abilities' or 'talents' that count, neither do technicalities like materials and techniques. Art is about intention...

[Raindrop]

Thank you, eezacque!
I think I understand a bit better how we can involve the spectator - I had read articles on it already, but there's nothing like putting it into practice.

I need to find a scanner, because the camera makes everything blurry and ugly (I don't have a tripod, the light is... grrrr.... and the drawing is tiny!). :mad:

And, yes, I'm a beginner, so I won't produce a masterpiece anytime soon, LOL! But I'm doing my best, that's the important thing, as you say. And I'm quite happy with how it's turning out :D

[Raindrop]

... Or... Are you talking about "intention" as: the message, or the feeling you are trying to put into the picture? I remember having seen paintings/drawings that were technically simple, or even flawed, but conveyed lots of emotion or meaning. Very dense pictures.

[eezacque]

Originally posted by Raindrop
... Or... Are you talking about "intention" as: the message, or the feeling you are trying to put into the picture? I remember having seen paintings/drawings that were technically simple, or even flawed, but conveyed lots of emotion or meaning. Very dense pictures.

Exactly. Good examples are children's drawings, which are usually not perfect in any technical sense, but radiate this wonderful intention like 'I made this one for the greatest daddy in the world'.

Something else. It is instructive to learn about things like perspective, composition, colour theory, to name some technicalities, and it won't hurt you to strive for a 'masterpiece', as you mention in your previous posting. But, above all, allow yourself to enjoy whatever you do.

Relax!
Feel free!
Enjoy!

[Raindrop]

Oh I enjoy it, believe me! It is SO fun! And now I'm playing with acrylics as well, so it's fun *and* it makes a mess. Which adds to the fun, of course :D