"Floating" a painting in frame

[elle2]

Has anyone ever started a thread on framing art under glass? I like to do my own framing, but every once in a while I run into a snag. Currently, I want to "float" a painting within a mat with 1/2" around between the painting and mat. My problem is I don't know how to mount the painting to the backing board. I use quality material, archival linen tape & need to know if I should attach it in four corners and along the top or just along top of painting?

I hope someone can answer this question for me!

[mame]

At least with prints......... the "correct method" - works are "hinged" at the top only. Two hinges a bit in from each outside corner.

Linen tape or some folks make their own with Japanese hand made paper "glued" with papier mache paste (can't remember the name for the archival stuff).

There are lots of books on archival museum/gallery framing techniques/practices with illustrations in most university libraries or book stores with a good art books section.

[mr.bungle]

i worked at a frame shop/gallery for 10 years, we did quality work and was known for it. the above reply is right on. in addition though, just to make sure you know (this could be obvious) make sure your mat(if single) is mounted slightly higher so the glass does not rest on the paper, double matted it shouldn't matter depending if the paper curls slightly or just thick paper.

hope this helps some.

[elle2]

Thank you & Mame, too. for the framing help. The paper I painted on is 300 lb. Arches, so I may have to double mat to keep the paper away from the glass. This is my first time floating something I think is worth a special framing & I want to do it right.
Can I make my own spacers to help hold the mat away from the glass also?

I really appreciate the advice from both of you.

[mr.bungle]

You could space the glass away from the mat as well, but it could be a pain in the you know what. First, think about the depth of the frame. Are you going to have enough space to float the glass and the mats? If it is, fine. Secondly, how to space the glass. Some company out there makes clear acrylic spacers in either 1/4 or 1/8th inch widths. The spacers have an adhesive on one side. Measure to length, score it, break it, peel back adhesive and stick inside rabbit of frame. Make sure glass is in there first! The adhesive holds the glass forward. The spacer is now your rabbit of the frame and the mat(s) will rest there. This can be a pain, or real easy, depending on your technical prowlness and confidence. Im not sure of the co. name to get the spacers. Probably any frame shop should have some around they might sell you or provide with a number to one of their suppliers.

hope this helps, if I left anything out or it sounds confusing let me know and good luck. I love building and making my own frames.

[Domenick]

I was sent this link yesterday. You may be able find some advice here.

http://www.metroframe.com/framing_advice.php

[Minibrush]

Mr. Bungle,

Thanks for the idea of the acrylic spacers. I too, love making my own frames. I work in miniature, and hate the thought of using "one size, one finish fits all". So I frame from scratch, from the ground up, so to speak. I like finishing the frame itself, so it looks made for the painting. Over the years I've collected a lot of defective plexiglass (tiny flaws in it). I believe I will try putting this to use as spacers. I've tried cork, and pieces of mat, but they always "show" upon close inspection. Do you suppose archival double stick tape attatched to the tiny piece of plexi would act similar to the self adhesive acrylic?

Thanks again for the great info!

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

It probably would not do for the archival, but silicone caucking? will add the hight, seal it and dries transparent. You can find acrylic roads at http://www.tapplastics.com/ under plastic.
They have adhesive for acrylic too, go under plastic.

I work in miniature too and life size, do you have a website?

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

Yes, I do have a web site. Hit the www button in my profile.

Well, I tried a "version" of acrylic spacers using the plexiglass as spacers. Using no adhesive at all. I cut the sheet of glass for the frame allowing just enough space between the sheet of glass and the rabet of the frame to tightly wedge in some tiny strips of the plexiglass. The plexiglass pieces were just slightly taller than the sheet of glass. The strips stayed in place, were invisible, and lifted the painting off the glass just enough. Finally a use for all that old, flawed plexi.

I would not reccomend silicone caulking, however. It is very caustic, and has a tendency to mold. I know, the packages say it's wonderfully mold resistant, but I've seen otherwise.

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

Minibrush:
Sorry to place the question here. I saw your website, beuatiful landscapes :)

Where do you get the frames for miniature paitings? I don't like being boxed in by the size of the available frames either. Where do you get the mouldings? I wanted to ask you something else, do you use brushes smaller than 10 zeros? If so where do you get them? I did a "price" and the face is about 1 cm, I am having problems to find small brushes to place more detail in the face and hands. Any guidance?

Do we have any forum for miniature paitings here in wetcanvas?

Thank you.

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[yoyita_yoyita]

Here is the prince, it measures 2" by 3"

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

Hi yoyita_yoyita,

I make my own frames from recycled frames I find at thrift stores. I look for the small delicate mouldings, bring home the old frames, take them apart, and remove the old finishes. (sometimes all this takes is a light sanding) Then I cut to size whatever I need, and assemble it using a frame clamp. It took a long time to get nice cuts, and even with a mitre saw, the cut may still not come out perfect, but with time to learn my saw, I rarely have a bad cut now.

I search and search for 20/0 brushes, too. I have an OLD 18/0 liner that I nurse along for the tight spots. But I have found some 10/0 brushes by different manufacturers that have very nice points, and can be used in place. If you give a larger brush a "haircut" take your time, and cut the outer bristles down to the ferrule. Try using an OLD brush to make your own "custom" brush.

Your prince is very stately. You've done a lovely job even without a tiny brush. Looked at your web site too. You have a broad range of talent.

The only thing for miniatures on WC is in the "other mediums" forum, search for the miniature thread. It's pretty long and was started ages ago, but there's some interesting items in it.

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

Hi minibrush, I found my 18 zeros in Michaels, in the art section. I was wondering what I hear around about cat's whiskers. I don't own a cat. I do have chihuahua dogs, but theirs are soft.

I still have to develop the fingers in the "prince" and more detail in the face.

Thanks for the tip I will go around the "other mediums" forum. :)

My website is "sick" and doesn't have all the pages right now. I tried to improve and update it, but I don't know html code, neither "frontpage" so I messed it up and now my webdesigner is working on it :(

Check it later, when it has all the pages.
Hmm wouldn't it be easier to order the little mouldings? I did invested in the framing machine, the one that cuts the perfect 45 degree angles for the frames. I don't sell frames, but I do frame my life size ones. I haven't practiced with mats an all of that yet, mostly did the oils that I am going to keep. I ordered the frames for the life size to a company in Florida and I liked them. I know there are little ones, but I don't know much about the scales. I though there were special places for miniature molding.

Regards.

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

I've seen some places with smaller mouldings, but have not liked how it's sold, (lengths, etc.), but by doing my own, I can make the look I want for that painting. I've seen several artist's work in the juried shows that use the same frame for all of their work. Some of them always work in the same size, too. But, I'm a rebel, and I must delight in making things difficult. Sometimes my frames take longer than the painting. Yet it's my frames that attracted attention with the gallery owners, and the few collectors I have so far. So I guess it's already become a "trademark" of mine.

I saw an Antiques Roadshow not long ago that mentioned an artist (forgive me, cannot remember the name) who bought second hand frames for his work, then colored the frames in random places, over the original finish, to match the paintings. I thought that was interesting.

I would be lost with a web site, if I did not use the templates earthlink provides. Although I would like to make a few changes, with the templates I'm pretty restricted, but it works easily. Not allowed to do commerce on the site, but it's great for an informative site.

I will check back with your site periodically. It's worth the trip.

:D

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

Minibrush:
Where do you buy secondhand frames? Site is complete again:)

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

I get my frames at thrift, or second hand stores. Like Goodwill stores, and such. We have one here for Disabled American Veterans that has great deals all of the time. I buy more than frames there.:rolleyes:

I just realized I know someone who looks like your prince. A friend's young adult son. His hair is not as long, but could look like that if it were.

Minibrush

[Minibrush]

yoyita_yoyita,

I took a leisurely browse through your site today. I am humbled. You are amazing!!!! I have many favorites, but some of the paintings I will never forget: the newborn, incredibly tender; Mallorie (hope I got the name right), she's so adorable and happy; the surgery (even though I've been there more times than I care to remember), I do remember the amazing shades of blue in the scrubs while waiting to be put under; your sculpture; and the watercolors are so vibrant. So are the still life paintings. I can see why your paintings contain so much life. You've lived SO much life. Oh, yoyita_yoyita, I am so glad you participated in this thread, so I was made aware of your work. You have a blessed talent, and I feel blessed seeing your work. Visiting your site was a wonderful journey, one I intend to repeat.

Wow,

Minibrush

[Minibrush]

I seem to have trouble today putting all of my thoughts into one thread.
I just remembered the place where I order Ivorine (the support I use for miniatures) carries "traditional" miniature frames. Made of brass, some oval, some rectangular, and they can come with flat glass or convex glass. They are pricey (near $40/per), but are wonderful for portraits.

Here is the web site address of the place. They only have an informative site, but you can order a catalog.

http://members.iquest.net/~whiteb/

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

I am glad you liked my website. I do love art. It gives me an immense satisfaction.
I have requested the catalog where you indicated me, but I like frames that I can make myself. I don't like to be boxed in in size.

Thank you.


Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

yoyita,

I found this link today that has a 20/0 brush.

http://www.barbarastanton.com/productCat15507.ctlg

I also found a link where you can see one of my frames. The gallery in California sponsoring a miniature show has one of my paintings, in frame, on their site. Scroll down quite a bit, it's "Quakies" by J Robb Hall of Denver, CO.

http://www.sierraartistsgallery.com/miniatures.html

This is one method I use in framing. Between the outer, larger frame, and the inner, smaller frame is natural cotton muslin stretched over mat board. I then fit the small frame over the "liner". Hope that gives you a better idea of how I frame.

Minibrush

[yoyita_yoyita]

Minibrush what do you use to glue the mini frame to the mat and the linen to the mat?

Yoyita (http://www.yoyita.com)

[Minibrush]

I use an acid free glue stick (the kind you rub on) for gluing the fabric to the mat board, it's very clean and neat, and does not show through the fabric. Uusally just a coat on the mat board is enough. For the tiny frame to the mat board, I use a craft glue, Sobo, Tacky Glue or one like that. The thicker the glue, the less time you need to hold it in place as it dries. Some of the glue might squeeze out around the edges, which I clean up with a toothpick before it dries.

Minibrush

[h20color]

Just browsing through the sites today and noticed mini artists looking for 20/0 or so brushes. I just purchased two sets of German made brushes 20/0 from Jerry's Artarama last week via their web site. The brushes were on sale in case your interested. They have a variety for you and at one time they also carried the miniature picture frames also. They still carry the miniature canvases if you are interested. Hope this is helpful.

I also try and paint miniatures so I appreciated your information on other sources for frames. One of the miniature art societies offers miniature frames but again the cost is high.
Check out the Miniature Art Society of Florida for links at
www.miniature-art.com their web page.
Their president has information at cabacur@aol.com.

Good luck and let me know if you need any other information

[h20color]

I found the least expensive storage units-Going to B.J's or Sam's or other household wholesale suppliers for a make shift artist's taboret.
I found the plastic utility cabinets on wheels (wheels are supplied with the unit, but you put them on by just turning over the unit and pushing the wheels into the slot) with multi-sized drawers usually in a unit stack of 8 drawers. My newest units have 4 large drawers that are approximately 7 inches deep with an additional 4 drawers on top that are approximately 3+ inches deep.

These units can be rolled around and I have about 8 of them that I use to separate my various supplies for art work. IE: paints, framing supplies, brushes, and then my computer business supplies and papers, etc. They store nicely in a closet and can be rolled out for use. Not expensive compared to the "artist's taboret". These units usually are found in the plastic storage areas for baskets and utility needs along with clothes hangers.

Cost is now about $25.00\to $35.00 each. I have used them for years. Height is about 48 inches and widest is about 17 inches.
A few years ago they cost around $18.00. Price is going up but still a great bargain and the drawers are interchangable also so you can just carry your drawer with you or your project. I also use a couple units for my needlework supplies-great for separating threads, buttons, patterns, etc.

You don't need to stand on your head to find your supplies either.

[Cathy Morgan]

The link posted earlier to Metroframe.com (http://www.metroframe.com/framing_advice.php) is terrific! Finally I found the information I needed on how to float a collage in a frame. The site has step by step directions with great pictures. Thanks so much for posting this link earlier. I just want to confirm how good it is.

[lawaited]

This is for Mr.Bungle. How long ago has it been since you worked at the frame shop? I worked in one for 7 years and we did only quality work as well. Why did you quit? What do you do now?

[Alan Cross]

Lots of good info here worth bumping it up...
Alan :)