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beartist
11-05-2010, 12:53 PM
This thread is an amazing place to learn. What kind of ink is used, to outline the drawing, when one wants to paint in the classical method of layers?
I assume that your not talking about a regular pen!

VicDiPilato
11-05-2010, 01:43 PM
http://forum.artpapa.com/index.php?/topic/20090-brown-ink/

I think this thread can be helpful. I do recommend using a brown color ink if you are planning to use burnt umber or raw umber as your initial layer (or another similar brown colored pigment). Given time black ink tends to bleed through lighter layers.

If you do use ink, I would not recommend heavily shading or a thick cross hatching, because oils have a tendency not to bond to areas with a large amount of ink.

Recently, I've been using a Pigma Micron 05 (brown).

dcorc
11-05-2010, 03:03 PM
We had a discussion of Indian Ink just a few days ago in the oils forum, see this thread:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750351&highlight=indian

Looking at the artpapa thread, I'd guess most of the inks being discussed there are dye inks - but what you want under a painting is not a dye ink, but a pigment ink - that is, the colours are as solid particles suspended in the ink, not liquid solution - which is why Indian Ink is a better choice.

If the issue is that the ink is too dark, then it can be diluted (see the discussion I've linked).

VicDiPilato
11-05-2010, 10:04 PM
dcorc,

Is the pen I've been using ok? the website say it is pigment based ink.

http://www.sakuraofamerica.com/Pen-Archival

Thanks

Hamburgefions
11-07-2010, 02:27 PM
dcorc,

Is the pen I've been using ok? the website say it is pigment based ink.

http://www.sakuraofamerica.com/Pen-Archival

Thanks

Whether you use pigment based ink is not that important, since you 'll be covering the drawing anyway with layers of paint.

A more serious problem could be the 'bleed-through' of some inks.

To be sure I always put an acrylic isolation coat on top of my drawing (or later on when first using waterbased paints). On top the oil layers.

dcorc
11-07-2010, 02:34 PM
Whether you use pigment based ink is not that important, since you 'll be covering the drawing anyway with layers of paint.


Actually, it IS important - which is why I spent the time to write a post pointing this out.

A more serious problem could be the 'bleed-through' of some inks.

namely dye-based inks.

Hamburgefions
11-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Actually, it IS important - which is why I spent the time to write a post pointing this out.



namely dye-based inks.

What I mean is that pigmented ink is far more light resistant than dye based ink, and light resistance is of none importance in an underlaying line drawing for a painting.
I would even say, the faster it fades, the better.

It s clear that if dye-based inks bleed-through, you shouldn't use them.

I just assume that no one uses an ordinary marker to make his drawing. I don't anyway.

And to be sure, I put an isolation coat. Never seen my drawing floating on top of my painting layers.

Anyway, it s better preventing problems from the start.

beartist
11-08-2010, 04:34 PM
I appreciate all the feedback. Ok the ink part I get the picture.. What do I use for an isolation coat?

Hamburgefions
11-09-2010, 06:56 PM
This is what I use: Soft Gel (Golden), diluted: 1/1 water.

Make sure, you have no oil-bearing or oil/resin related varnish layers underneath.

It dries very fast, so don't hesitate when you put it on. When it s dry, I sandpaper it slightly and continue with oil or alkyd paint.

VicDiPilato
11-09-2010, 11:28 PM
This is what I use: Soft Gel (Golden), diluted: 1/1 water.

Make sure, you have no oil-bearing or oil/resin related varnish layers underneath.

It dries very fast, so don't hesitate when you put it on. When it s dry, I sandpaper it slightly and continue with oil or alkyd paint.


Thank you. I'll definitely give the insulation layer a try on my next painting.

michelle021
11-28-2010, 03:56 AM
Did I miss part of this thread? I have no idea what anyone is talking about when referring to InK Underpainting. Could someone post a picture of a painting where ink underpainting is used? What is the purpose and effect of it? Thank you.

dcorc
11-28-2010, 05:57 PM
Did I miss part of this thread? I have no idea what anyone is talking about when referring to InK Underpainting. Could someone post a picture of a painting where ink underpainting is used? What is the purpose and effect of it? Thank you.

No, you haven't missed part of the thread :) - one method of doing a placement image is as a line-drawing in ink, and this can be used as an indelible way of doing so after transferring a drawing. It was a method known to have been used by some painters in the 19thC for example (see http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Technical_Articles/WALKER-BOUGUEREAU/WALKER-BOUGUEREAUpage1.php - and the next 3 pages - particularly page 2 where inking is discussed). Also, read the other links provided in the posts above.


Dave

michelle021
11-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Hi Dave! I am having a difficult time finding the other pages in this thread ("and the next 3 pages - particularly page 2 where inking is discussed") or are you referring to pages in the link you've sent. I am wondering if my computer is somehow changing my screen in a way that is hiding them. It seems to be fine on all the other threads.

I was able to open the link. Thank you. I am sure it will help. I will take a long look at it later this evening.

dcorc
11-28-2010, 08:26 PM
Page 1 (http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Technical_Articles/WALKER-BOUGUEREAU/WALKER-BOUGUEREAUpage1.php)
Page 2 (http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Technical_Articles/WALKER-BOUGUEREAU/WALKER-BOUGUEREAUpage2.php)
Page 3 (http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Technical_Articles/WALKER-BOUGUEREAU/WALKER-BOUGUEREAUpage3.php)
Page 4 (http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Technical_Articles/WALKER-BOUGUEREAU/WALKER-BOUGUEREAUpage4.php)

:)