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Painter
02-04-2000, 07:10 AM
Bruin70, Milt has recommended that all use medium. I have used stand oil and dammar and turps. Now I am exploring the alkyd mediums. I got some Gamblin alkyd "lite", and it turned into a gel before I used more than a table spoon from the can.

Now I use Archival lean medium and mineral spirits.

What about others?

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God Blesses!
Ched

bruin70
02-04-2000, 09:56 AM
no turp, painter. use thinner

bierstadt
02-04-2000, 11:02 AM
Painter

Milt's advice to use use a medium of dammar,stand oil, and thinner(turps) is good sound advice. I would stick with it. These ingredients are very stable and time proven. Another thing to try is using venice turpentine in place of the dammar resin. It will give your painting an enamel finish like you would not believe. Shiva has good and cheap venice turpentine which includes colophny resin(turpentine based resin)to help it dry faster. Pure venice turp takes to long to dry with no colophony resin. If you really want to experience painting nirvana though, substitute the dammar with Canada Balsam!



hey milt,
Just a quick comment thingee or something.
I have found dammar resin(tears) to be insoluble in anything but real turpentine, acetone, or concentrated alchohol. Of coarse the last two are not suitable for mediums. I have gotten the dammar resin sold as final picture varnish to somewhat dissolve in a medium using thinner but the bottled dammar already includes turpentine. Also, as far as I have found, the dammar called for in mediums is a "5-pound cut"(100g of dammar tears disolved in 300mL turpentine) which is many times stronger than regular picture varnish. When I make it, it looks like hot honey. My concern in using the pre- made bottled picture varnish in medium is that it is so diluted that it will create a medium with a very high oil content(it would be like painting with yellow!) Anyway, I just thought I would lay this out here. I may be missing something. If I am, then I give you permission to slap me on the back of the head! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

All the best to you

Nathan

bruin70
02-04-2000, 11:28 AM
b, you're asking the wrong guy about that stuff. drew knows a lot about it, though. i love venice turp. great stuff.

Painter
02-04-2000, 11:59 PM
Dammar is a problem. Alykd mediums seem to avoid the dammar and I can use mineral spirit with them.

I'm beginning to move toward the newer materials, Archival oils, and Frederic's poly flax synthetic canvas. Perhaps with an alykd underpainting.

If one believes Chroma's blurbs, the archival oils will remain flexible, so the flexibility of the underlying Alykd paint shouldn't cause cracking. The polyester canvas won't expand and contract as do the natural fibres. The original problem with synthetics was adhesion. I trust Frederic's technical staff to have solved that problem.

The acrylic "gesso" may be a serious problem for oil painters since it is supposed to remain flexible under the more ridgid drying oils.

Does anyone know how the "universal" grounds are prepared?

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God Blesses!
Ched

Drew Davis
02-05-2000, 10:07 AM
Sounds to me like Nathan is spot on. The purpose of the resin in a medium is to add hardness and gloss; the oil lends flexibility and insolubility. Turps is just there to make it flow. So, if you have really weak varnish as a component, the resin/oil ratio will be low, and the medium properties may not be what you want. Since the varnish already has turps in it, you can add less to the medium (assuming a typical 1 part varnish, 1 part oil, 1 part turps mix). Or, you might try one of the partly-polymerized oils, like stand oil or sun-thicked oil, to help give it more body with less oil. Historically, people sometimes used waxes, but that seems to be frowned upon these days. Waxes are one of those fillers in the cheap student-grade paint your mother warned you about.

Basalms (including venice turps) are essentially natural mediums, with resin already dissolved in turpentine. Pre-mixed by the tree for your convenience.

If avoiding turps is the goal, then the alkyd mediums are useful, since they do dissolve in mineral spirits. The biggest problem with the water-soluble oils, to me, is that you don't have any mediums (other than oil) that are truly water-soluble. Alkyds, yes, but those have OMS, so you're not really solvent-free.

Amber, copal, mastic, damar, sandarac, balsam, concrete turpentine -- if it ever oozed out of a tree or bush, somebody used it in a painting somewhere. These days, we make our own - alkyds, methacrylate, polycyclohexane. A little more romance in the old names, I think.

robinsn
02-05-2000, 02:09 PM
Venice Turpentine is my favorite medium ingredient. I like the consistency and the look of the paint when it dries. But I've read that if you use varnish or venice turpentine or such things in your medium, that if you ever need to clean your painting IE: remove the varnish, that whatever dissolves the varnish will also dissolve some of your paint because of the medium of varnish or resin based medium. That seemed to make a lot of sense to me.

Since then I've been avoiding Venice Turpentine, but if someone knows different than this, I'd love to know because I'd love to go back to Venice Turp in my medium.

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-Randy
http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/randy/

colinlaflin
03-01-2008, 10:59 AM
Historically, people sometimes used waxes, but that seems to be frowned upon these days. Waxes are one of those fillers in the cheap student-grade paint your mother warned you about.


Not necessarily. High quality beeswax is still employed in paintings for a variety of effects, mostly to give body to the paint without actually using more paint. The wax never permanently "dries" though, so there are special considerations for varnishing.

As for Robinsn's concerns, provided Venice turpentine is only PART of your medium (as it should be, most mix it with stand oil) and doesn't contain extra turpentine (as the leveling properties of Venice turp are for us in GLAZING, or top layers), the dried stand oil and oil paint should be sufficiently strong to hold together given the proper drying time.

Paintings also don't need to frequently be cleaned, either, and is a lengthy process done by people who specialize in it; the chances of our paintings being around long enough, or being important enough, to be cleaned and restore by specialists is a flattering idea...but not necessarily something to concern yourself while painting. Even upon managing to create such great and worthy works, Stand Oil and Venice turp is a glazing medium that's been around for quite some time...and there are plenty of old paintings that used it that have survived cleaning.

Termini.
03-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Not necessarily. High quality beeswax is still employed in paintings for a variety of effects, mostly to give body to the paint without actually using more paint. The wax never permanently "dries" though, so there are special considerations for varnishing.

As for Robinsn's concerns, provided Venice turpentine is only PART of your medium (as it should be, most mix it with stand oil) and doesn't contain extra turpentine (as the leveling properties of Venice turp are for us in GLAZING, or top layers), the dried stand oil and oil paint should be sufficiently strong to hold together given the proper drying time.

Paintings also don't need to frequently be cleaned, either, and is a lengthy process done by people who specialize in it; the chances of our paintings being around long enough, or being important enough, to be cleaned and restore by specialists is a flattering idea...but not necessarily something to concern yourself while painting. Even upon managing to create such great and worthy works, Stand Oil and Venice turp is a glazing medium that's been around for quite some time...and there are plenty of old paintings that used it that have survived cleaning.


You do know that you have ressurected a thread that is over 8 years old?

Smokin
03-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Some people use the search feature of the forum to lookup info. 8day old thread or 8 year old thread, if the info is incorrect, then I apreciate anyone who attempts to correct it.

kazucks
03-01-2008, 07:37 PM
Although this is an old thread, you really should not use a medium or components of a medium unless you know what it is intended to do. I hear alot of people say, I used copal, or damar and venice turp or mastic. The question is why? All medium substances have different effects in relation to the substrate and ground. Naive artists pour all kind of mediums becuse it seems exciting. Experienced artists use specific medium components for specific tasks. Get the goods and understand what their characteristics are before you employ them in a painting./