Sandpiper beach scenes (first critique!)

[pixelscapes]

Hi everybody. I've never posted before, but don't feel like you have to be gentle. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif Actually since these are digital pictures, it's really easy to change certain things... move them around, alter colors, etc etc! So try to keep that in mind as you make suggestions.

Basically I'm looking for any advice... I'm also trying to decide whether one of these images is much stronger than the other, or if they're different enough to be considered separately. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks in advance!

First version: Day scene
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers1.jpg
Here's a detail of the birds if you're interested... it's not a photo, I made them in Photoshop. I incorporated them into the scene after that so that their reflections would be rendered. You might notice they don't really have shadows... I'm not sure if they need them or not, standing in water?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers0.jpg

Second version: Sunset scene
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers2.jpg

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[pixelscapes]

By the way, if it makes any difference... I haven't printed these yet, but the final print will be 17 x 40 (12 x 36 image area).

I would make it even more than that, but, I know 40 is a bad number to exceed when considering matting and so on...

Mmm. Big prints. Nummy. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[henrik]

Beautiful Jen...
I just have one small thing... on the daylight scene where water meets sand - on a real beach the sand would be wet (darker, and with highlights) - the more waves the bigger the wet area.
Just a thought...

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http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/helipirat.gif Visit my gallery at Artistnation (http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/henrik)

[This message has been edited by henrik (edited April 13, 2000).]

[bruin70]

hey pixie,,,,,if i were to assume the eyelevel/horizon to be 5'6" or so,,,,then the birds stand around 2'9" or so out of the water. more in the sunset.

depending on how accurate you want to be...if you desire to be accurate and the birds stand too tall, check out the thread "med sunset", for perspective. i love the sunset. the first image loses a lot, especially on the right side,,,but it could be the laptop lcd screen i'm using. if both scenes are of the same place, the second looks like beach/flat,,,the first seems hilly,,,unflat.....milt

[J.Dillon]

Jen, Pixelscapes, Excellent beautiful work. I think the sand is OK. In the scene the clouds are stratus translating into low wind & stable weather conditions there for little wave action and a dry sand. Also the tide could be coming in not receeding. I do like the water very gentle looking. My question though is the rippled shadow of the birds in the water. If the light source is at the extreme right , shouldn't the shadow be a bit more to the left ? I do very much like the way you did the texture in the moutains. Also in the sunset scene maybe the shadow of the mountain might be longer into the fore ground ? If the sun is behind the mountain, below the rim I would think the shadow would be longer...unless the wind is kicking up a bit disturbing the water and catching the light. These are minor techinical points but I do like your work and admire the use of the computer as a tool. Is this digital art ? JD

[Patti]

Pixels, These are lovely. Reminds me so much of my summers at the lake. They are both very serene. To me the first one looks like early morning after a nightime
rain. The higher parts of the sand are just starting to dry from the first rays of sun. One thing though, Henrik is right, the sand just at waters edge would be more saturated with water and therefore darker.
One more little thing that I would do would be to make the outline where the sand touches the water flow a little more. It looks sort of cut out. Should be really easy to do though. Great work! Very nice feel to them.
Pat

[pixelscapes]

You know, Bruin, I was thinking about that exact thing as I did this scene (the perspective and the relative height of the birds). I was actually figuring the viewer is in a beach chair. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif But, maybe that's not a reason, it's just an excuse. I could always raise the camera some and make the birds smaller.

I think the sunset scene is more dramatic, but I like both in different ways.

As for the wet waterline... I think I can do something about that, Henrik. We'll see. It could be kind of tough... would the wet edge have a mostly hard line or should it be a smoothish gradation from wet to dry?

-=- Jen

[pixelscapes]

The three of us posted at once! Now that I've seen their posts, I'll reply to J.Dillon and Patti.

JD:

Yeah, this is digital art. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif It is meant to be serene weather and serene water. Partly because that's my taste, and partly because it's tough to do anything BUT serene water.

I think that the "rippled shadow" you refer to is actually their reflection... there's really no shadow visible at all for these birds, as mentioned in my first post. It's because they're flat objects and as you said, the sun is way off on the right. I could conceivably move the sun to in front of the birds, but that would make a flatter scene... Hmm. I could fake it with a blurred dark shape beneath and to the side of each bird. Or, I could bring a small spotlight into the scene to force the birds to cast a shadow in the direction I want them to.

As for the sunset, since this is 3D rendered graphics, the length of the shadow/reflection is actually calculated based on sun position! I could make the shadow longer by moving the sun down more. It might not show over the tops of the mountains then, though. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/frown.gif Every time I moved the sun lower when I was working, the brightness cranked way down.

Patti:

It looks cut out because the plane of the water is intersecting the shape I used for the terrain, and since it's computer graphics, it's a very clear-cut line. I had this same effect in another beach scene I've done ( http://www.pixelscapes.com/gallery/art_sandbeach01.html )... maybe the white foam helped in that pic. I don't think the same technique would help me here though.
I think I will experiment with how to get a wet edge on the water. Maybe a little foam (but just a little). I know I could conceivably do that with a smudge tool in Photoshop, but the more I can do within the rendering program, the better it is... otherwise I'll have to reproduce the effect somehow once I render it as a 20 meg file! <wince>

I'll have to do a top-down rendering of the scene, trace out the edge in Photoshop, and bring the tracing in as a separate object. Probably what I'll do is have a white line (on the water's side) and a dark line (on the sand's side), and blur/ripple/transparent it so that it's like the leading edge of the water has a little foam, and the dark edge would help it look wet. I can make it somewhat reflective too, but with this light angle... well. We'll see. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

You know, it just occurred to me that I'm thinking out loud in type, and it's unlikely that anybody will know what I mean. Oops. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I'll just do it and show you the result!

Thanks for the advice, everybody. I'll play with this more when I get home tonight based on discussions here and I'll post again to this thread.

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[LarrySeiler]

I'd agree that the sand where water juts in and out along the edge ought to appear darker.

As a picture...I look for a color harmony, rythym which pulls the picture together. A reason just copying photos sometimes doesn't make for a good painting. Color notes used in one place ought to find occasion to be repeated elsewhere. Thus...some of the blues of your water and distant hills might be snuck into some reflection along the sand, the back of the birds..the belly...and the warm colors of the sand snuck into clouds or some part of the distance.

If you are confused by what I'm saying here, my latest how to on Wetcanvas deals somewhat with this issue.

Like your work on the birds...
Larry

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"Art attacks can skill!"

[pixelscapes]

I think I know what you mean, yeah. I was a little concerned about that myself (for the day scene)... that I have a "blue area" and a "yellow area" and that's kind of it. I tried to draw the yellow-brown tones on the shoreline and crags of the distant mountains out more, but the mist seems to be killing them off.

I was at a real loss for how to get any blue into the foreground though... you're right that I could use it to shade my birds there, though!

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[pixelscapes]

Actually, maybe I'll abandon realism and make the birds blue instead of brown. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif What do you all think of that?

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[Gisela]

Jen,
I love the birds!!
Of course, you know me and birds...lol. I think the reflections on the birds are right on. Reflections are always directly below the object and you got that just right.
I like both scenes, but the bottom one has way more drama. Both make me want to pack up and head for warmer climes. Cleveland...32 degrees in the middle of April...harummph!!

Gisela



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http://www.artistnation.com/members/paris/gisela

[paintfool]

WOW Pixel They're Beautifl!!...Cheryl

[pixelscapes]

Okay, here's one...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers1b.jpg

I added some blue to the birds, slightly changed the aspect ratio, added sea foam, tried to brighten the warmer tones in the mountains.

I think the foam looks good, but the wetness I tried to add ended up just looking dirty, so I gave up on it. I think the foam looks good enough as it is! Do you think the white is too bright? I can't decide. I can make it more transparent and subtle. I really just want it to to soften that water edge...

Thanks again everyone for your comments, it means a lot to me!

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[paintfool]

Jen, i think the foam at the waters' edge looks great. Leave it just the way it is. I personaly liked the birds the way they were the first time....Cheryl

[pixelscapes]

And the other one...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers2b.jpg

I liked the birds before because they could be seen better (they were larger). But, it is still true it didn't jive with the perspective... they would have had to be 2 feet tall or more to look that way! On the upside when it's actually printed they won't be as miniscule and hard to see as they are here... they'll be about an inch or two tall. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[henrik]

I like the foam - it reduces the cut out effect you had before. Just as a suggestion - have you tried some more warmer colors on the mountains? IMO they are perhaps a bit too blue (perhaps just make them less saturated with color?)

[bruin70]

only sandpiperophiles would notice, in any case.....milt

[pixelscapes]

That's true Bruin, but, I kinda like tiny beach birds myself so I might as well actually make them look tiny! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Henrik -- Yes, I think the mountains could use some more warmer tones... I plan to tweak the texture more.

Meanwhile, I need advice again! I already have someone who wants to buy this! Yipes. I already told him it might be a little different before it's done; he doesn't seem to care. He might actually want the sunset pic instead, but it's the same perspective so my approach is the same...

I am not equipped to use that long paper yet (won't be for a long time... I was getting ahead of myself!), so, I'm trying to get this onto one of my regular 17x22 sheets. I think it's doable and looks fine, but, I might as well get second opinions on the sort-of-new composition:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/pixsandpipers1c.jpg

I'm trying to sort of echo the shape of the mountains above with the zig-zag of the shoreline (in case that's not entirely obvious)...

-=- Jen / Pixelscapes

[henrik]

Hm, that is a different feel. I think I would move the mountain furthest away to the left to get some of that open air feeling present in the larger version.