View Full Version : On the Dock

Phyllis Franklin
12-01-1999, 09:02 PM
Help please. I like the sky and the building but it seems lifeless to me. I know that it needs help, but I don't know
what direction to take it. Any ideas?
www.angelfire.com/ga2/palette/ (http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/palette/)

[This message has been edited by Phyllis Franklin (edited 12-01-99).]

12-01-1999, 11:04 PM
Just at a glance, the problem seems to be the perspective of the building. The roof pitch starts out right on the left of the painting, but, the side facing the dock seems to travel toward the viewer rather than recede, as it should. It seems fine 'til it makes contact with the mast, then goes askew. (Possibly, an over compensation for what had been a 'kiss'?) Also, there needs to be a value change on the boat, lighter, bringing it out from the dock. It seems to be flattened into the shadow of the dock. Hope this helps. It is a very interesting painting, I like the sky, too. One thing about perspective, it is always easier to she where someone else has gone awry. If anyone has any tips to help the artist see, I hope they will share.

Hope this helps, I'd like to see the finished painting!

Phyllis Franklin
12-01-1999, 11:19 PM
thanks BillieD. I wish that you could take my picture and do some line drawing to show me what you would do to correct the perspective. I really have trouble with stuff like this. I mostly do flowers in pots and this is my first attempt at a building and also a boat. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif I did have several reference pictures that I used. I think maybe this was 75% of my problem to begin with. I just cut up several snapshots and a few magazine pictures and pasted them together. lol Because of this, as you can tell, I have no definite light source and no good way to judge distance. See what you can come up with to help me. Do you have a scanner?

12-02-1999, 12:03 AM
Sails are in the same colour as the walls.
Sea is with same value as he goes forward. It lacks the sense of distance.
You did the chimney darker on his right side. Do the same with the right wall.
The second row of sails need to bee in a different value too.
Here go my rough changes. I'm sorry if I made it worst… because you a have a nice paint.

Keep going…
I hope you understand me cause I express my self so badly….

[This message has been edited by william (edited 12-02-99).]

12-02-1999, 01:43 AM
Sorry, I do not have a scanner, but, William seems to have improved the problem with a value change. And, like I said earlier, it is easy to pick out what some else needs to work on... I, too, work on still lifes, I haven't the courage to try buildings. I have a very nice rendering of a bird house, I was sooo proud of, two weeks later, once I'd quit looking at it every free moment, and had already sprayed it with fixative, I noticed the bottom looked 'odd'. My drawing instructor asked me if I really had a prejudice against rulers...

I so hope you resolve the problem, though, I is a very interesting painting.

Your friend in art,
Billie Dawn

Phyllis Franklin
12-02-1999, 11:47 AM
Thanks William. I think I have the courage to try some changes. I see what you mean about the value changes. Will work on this and put a new picture up and see what you think. It might take me awhile to do it because I have to get the film put on a disk. I don't have a digital camera or a scanner. This is on my Chirstmas wish list. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

01-10-2000, 03:57 PM
I liked William's changes too. To mee, the "odd" perspective is part of the charm of this painting. However, I think a big problems is with the big sail - it looks like an extention of the roof, I would try tilting it to the left thus making the edge of the roof and the sail meet at an angle. Alternatively try extending the roof to make the left end-point of the sail stand out.

Phyllis Franklin
01-10-2000, 05:19 PM
Thanks Henrik. I really appreciate your input. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

01-10-2000, 08:21 PM
Hi Phyllis..I also noticed the large sail as appearing to be an extention of the roof..in art (one definition) this is called a tangent point..I also noticed the darkness of the hull..that causes the main body of the ship to be lost or hidden in the shadow..I had noticed some line perspective drawing lessons in the site here (please draw my picture for me mommy http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif..you may try doing a grayscale copy of your composition and work/check the perspective using tracing paper, tape it over the image and draw the lines..

I really like the rich colors and the composition works well..after you have taken care of those two little glitches I would like to see it again..your ocean looks nice and the people on the dock add a nice touch of interest, which also helps to keep the eye moving..you have done a really nice job with this http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

01-16-2000, 01:48 PM
How's that, llis? Is that you, Phyllis? http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

By the way, all of the perspective changes were based on the perspective of the front of the roof, and I make no claims as to what the best artistic perspective would have been. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by robinsn (edited January 16, 2000).]

01-16-2000, 02:38 PM
Yes, this is Phyllis. I just now found my orginal nickname tucked away for save keeping. llis is the last half of my name. My friend and I share the same name. She takes the Phyl and I take the llis. (Liz) I sign most of my paintings llis as well.

Thanks for putting my pic and your correction side by side.. I see what you mean now. The roof does look a whole lot better. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

01-16-2000, 05:50 PM
llis..get a large piece of paper, a ruler or straight edge..print your painting from the computer..draw out the "vanishing point(s)" for your building http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif..the roof lines are still off..the two lines showing the front and back end of the gable should be parallel to each other..the one further back will have a shorter line because of the vanishing point..your round window should be straight below the peak of the roof..on second look I see that it is, the shadow had thrown me..(do you know how to find the vanishing point? http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/confused.gif

hope this helps

[This message has been edited by kemshmi (edited January 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by kemshmi (edited January 16, 2000).]

01-16-2000, 07:35 PM

You're right. The inaccuracy of the gable lines are my fault - just inaccuracy of a quick computer mod. But it's good that you pointed that out. I got the lines 'about right' but if she needs to know specifics on perspective, I should have been more specific.

Llis, you'll find that the vanishing point I used in the above message will be located in the middle and far edge of the ladder in the original pic on the right. If you get a ruler or straight edge, and use that point as a pivot, you'll find that all the lines going into the distance in the left pic should line up with the straight edge. (tho in the demo it's not all quite right) http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Technically, the round window should be slightly to the left of the peak, since we aren't looking straight on. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif


01-16-2000, 09:27 PM
Thanks, I really appreciate your help.

01-17-2000, 12:18 AM
Just from a pure perspective viewpoint, here's what a (fairly) technically accurate perspective should look like on the building and dock.

Here's the changes I made.
levelled out the front brick wall
slanted edges on steeple/tower
slanted edges on windowed turret and moved point of gable over
brought sky down over sails to lower roof
moved row of lower windows and pillars down and slanted top/bottoms.
moved end of dock down.
showed red roof where it belongs at end of pier.

I hope that helps some.


[This message has been edited by robinsn (edited January 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by robinsn (edited January 16, 2000).]

01-17-2000, 12:27 AM
You know what I wish, Randy? I wish that there was a way (and there may be) that the orginal could be posted right beside the correction. Thanks for your help. Your correction looks good. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif