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bruin70
10-26-1999, 06:05 PM
sandee. you have a color and value problem with the trees on the right. i'm guessing that the brown trees on the left, behind the foliage were in shadow. when you gave them rich/ dark chroma, you had no where to go with the trees on the right. they had to be lighter,,,but since you gave all your color to the shadowed trees there was little leeway for the color in the rightside trees. a better solution , in your case, would be to darken the lefttrees with grey/black, blue, and throw in some warms so as not to leave them cold. and when i say warms, i DON'T mean that you lighten them. additional browns will do. also, you haven't addressed the changes in foliage from sunlight to shadow....therefore, everything looks flat. you can be creative here, since who's to say where sunlight and shadow fall in this forest enviroment. thus,,,darkening the foliage behind the rightside trees, for instance, will allow you to add color to your rightside trees, even if they darken a tad, and still make them appear to be in the light. you kill two birds with one stone. add color and put them in light.
in general, you have no darks in your painting to anchor the piece. nothing pops. you're using direct-color-from-the-pan for your darks. as stated previously, use grey/black, blues, to darken your shadow color. this will allow you purer color for the light, and lighter color for hilites.....milt

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

[This message has been edited by bruin70 (edited 10-26-99).]

Sandee
10-27-1999, 12:30 AM
This is one of my first larger paintings. It done in transparent watercolors, measures 15x19 on 140lb paper.
I would love to hear any constructive comments, but I am especially interested to hear from anyone who has been a juror on exhibitions. I have yet to enter any but am looking forward to it soon.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/enterthegarden.jpg

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Sandee
www.zonescapes.com (http://www.zonescapes.com)
Signature Artist-Greeting Card Express
www.greetingcardexpress.com (http://www.greetingcardexpress.com)
Everything is beautiful...in it's own way.

[This message has been edited by Sandee (edited 10-26-99).]

[This message has been edited by Sandee (edited 10-26-99).]

[This message has been edited by Sandee (edited 10-26-99).]

Sandee
10-27-1999, 08:37 AM
>i'm guessing that the brown trees on the left, behind the foliage were in shadow<
Yes! and the detail tree parts on the left were painted last. Now I see the value differences.
>also, you haven't addressed the changes in foliage from sunlight to shadow....therefore, everything looks flat<
That's what I needed to hear! That was supposed to be one of the areas that popped out.
What do you think of having the sunlit leaves going up higher, to above the arch?
As far as a dark anchor, I thought the back end of the tunnel would do, guess I need to do more work on this one!
Thanks so much I needed the extra eyes. You picked up on some things I had attempted, but haven't accomplished, and things I was concerned about but wasn't quite sure about.
Excellent perception!
This scene is in Key West and I hope to paint it someday on location. As it was I with other people so I just shot it with a camera. On scene the brown fountain in the distance was a wonderful focal point, beuatifully shining in a beam of sunlight peaking through, but in the photo it was so diminished you could barely tell it was there. The whole foreground was in shadow, not dark, just not direct sunlight.
Thanks Milt!


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Sandee
www.zonescapes.com (http://www.zonescapes.com)
Signature Artist-Greeting Card Express
www.greetingcardexpress.com (http://www.greetingcardexpress.com)
Everything is beautiful...in it's own way.

bruin70
10-27-1999, 03:26 PM
as i said...you can light anything in a forest, because of the randomness of light patterns in the uneven foliage. the best way to light leaves is to make sure they're lit against dark shadowy leaves. as if the litr leaves are extending towards you beyond the shadows. if the foliage on the left and bottom right are in light, the best quick way to show without much fuss is to show cast shadow on the ground and bricks on the left,,,,and ground and tree trunk on the right....make the shadows DARK.
you have too much going on here to bother with any fountain in the background. too complicated, too messy, too cluttered. if you HAD to,,,,then darken EVERYTHING in the foreground, bring all the values together,,,and fixate on the fountain, like a bullseye.

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Sandee
11-17-1999, 10:55 AM
Hey I bet you wondered what happened to me http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
I have been on vacation... no actually my hubby was on vacation, but we were here at home and as far computer time for me... well as Joe Pesci might say: FUHgeddaboutit! LOL!
I want to thank you for helping me out. This particular piece was done last year when I was just trying to copy photos. Your observations were great and right on. I needed it. I don't know if I will fix this one or just re-do it (leaning toward redo) and fix the composition. I have only just completed my first year at watercolor. I am mostly self taught as far as watercolors (and painting in general), except for a few art classes in high school (drawing, 2-d design) and an 8 year career in drafting (manual and CAD). Now I am in a position to concentrate on my art, something I have put off for years (mainly because of economics). I know I can draw anything, if I put my mind to it, so I thought it would be an easy shift into painting. I realize now I was a little too sure of myself. I had set some goals for myself, for the next few years, as far as my art. I realized after your helpful assistance (and much thought http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gifthat I am not ready for prime time. Another thing I realized is that I am taking on too much at one time. I need to simplify my subject matter and just do small or less complicated compositions and after a while when I have more experience, then tackle the more extensive compositions.
This particular composition I know I will try again... I just need to slow down and take my time, and just start enjoying this, rather than pushing myself so hard.
It was a desire of mine to be able to start entering shows after one year, but now I realize I'd rather wait and do it right. There is a right time for everything, and I have so much to learn yet.
I hadn't really intended to enter this particular piece in a show; I just happened into this forum by chance and thought I would see what reaction it would get.
I am so glad I did http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
Oh and guess what I found out yesterday? The Art and Historical Society of Key West is having their first art show/exhibition this January... they consider the site that was the subject of this painting as one of their 'facilities'... so maybe NEXT YEAR I can have this scene redone and entered into the show... I have many other scenes from this area that are special to me and I intend to paint... so we will see!
In the meantime, I will just keep at it, but simplify things a bit http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks again!

bruin70
11-17-1999, 11:16 AM
editing in art is what it's all about. whether compositionally or technique. it would be easy to redo your piece because it seems you did it rather lightly. do you have an extensive library of art books? the best thing to do in your position is to surround yourself with great art and refine your taste...milt

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Sandee
11-17-1999, 01:04 PM
This is true.... change change change!
We used to have a saying about it in the R&D depts I worked in when I worked as a drafter...the only thing certain about any design is that it will be changed. We also had another ditty that said that in every design there comes a point where you must shoot all the engineers and start production LOL! Of course the engineers had the same saying but they pointed it toward the checkers/QA folks.
No I don't own any art books, but I have already been through almost every watercolor technique book in the local libray and even had them acquire a few more... I still have a few to go. I have only checked out a book on Andrew Wyeth so far and it was a fantastic resource for me. I hadn't expected to be so enriched, but I was. I didn't know that much about him or his art, but after reading this account which included an extensive interview he gave in the 1960's, I was very encouraged. I was approaching many things in my own work by instinct; I found that I had many things in common with him. He lived in a different era but he just painted the things around him that moved him. He lived in rural areas; I live in a urban area. I get out on my bike from time to time and do the same thing. There is a wealth of subject matter all around me... cityscapes, seascapes, waterbirds, people... right now I just sit on a blanket and do small quick sketches. I am going to assemble a portable studio for myself that will be lightweight and portable and able to fit into a backpack so that anywhere I go I can paint.
I recently started a subscription to Artist Magazine, plus I have met many artists of all skill levels over the internet and participate in a great email list that concerns itself with watercolors, and techniques, materials, etc. There are published artists on the list as well as beginners like me. One lady, Nita Leland, has been great. She has current articles in Artist Magazine and Watercolor Magic plus several books on color theory and such. She will be in my state in January to do a demo and workshop, and I hope to meet her in person then.
I also live in a very arts oriented area (Miami, Fl). The art season is about to get under way here, and I hope to be visiting at least one art festival/show a month until next spring. I find talking to working professional artists so enriching... there is something about that 'in person' experience that you just can't get over the internet.
And far as surrounding myself with great art, I see I need to get more books from the library. I am particularly interested now in John Singer Sargeant and Winslow Homer. Is there any you would suggest? They have a nice collection of books at the library re: individual artists.

Shirley
11-17-1999, 02:02 PM
Sandee, I just registered so your watercolor was the first I see. In regard to using photos, they are great but to apply to this,leaves your painting washed out. Try to do as much pleine aire as you can, you just can't duplicate values from photos. If you were to see the actual scene, you have to allow yourself to "see" what is before you, the richness in the shadows and the brilliance of the lights. Try to see tree trunks as violet rather than browns. Brown should be used as little as possible. Nature is a beautiful experience and can never be actually duplicated...but we try and the more we learn to "see", and "feel" the better we can relate to temperature and value of color. Haunt museums, art galleries and shows and ask questions about everything. Good luck to you. I would like to see you do another painting of the same subject. Put the first one away until you have finished, then bring it out and compare what you've learned. ART IS A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE, Sandee, drink it in!

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Shirley

bruin70
11-17-1999, 05:26 PM
shirley, sandee. color is a personal expression. you can only paint what you can see or feel. and it differs with everyone. sandee's efforts should be to see values properly.

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Julia
11-22-1999, 09:10 PM
You should check up your values. The trees both on the right and left sides should be darker in value, as well as their shadows. The white path in the foreground is of the same value as in the background. I guess the foreground should be brighter.
In terms of color the green trees on the left are very dull - no red or other colors in the shadows. The cyan blue of the foliage does not match other colors.The whole picture should be, it seems to me, in a warm palette (and orange and warm red in the high left corner proves it), but it turns out to be cold.You should choose - warm light,cold shadows or cold light,warm shadows.