finished painting

[kate252]

heres the final still life - seeing as i have posted about it i feel duty bound to post it also
i am not happy as the thistles werent painted like this in my brain- i did layer after layer
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Sep-2010/179491-IMGP0243.JPG

seems like this colour mixing technique people ahve showed me- is not as simple as it seems- i didnt realise you had to be so careful with it- i thought if i got generally near it i wold be ok- but it appears that you have to be spot on otherwise the whole thing fails- and i feel i have failed- but i have learnt masses

there is this guy on acrylic forum- and posts his first human face painting
you clock on it and you see perfection and you think- whats going on- how can people do this first time and nail it straight away and others like me have to slave

which one is it- 99% work or 99% talent?

because if its the latter then arent I just flogging a dead horse that was dead years ago? im confused

i had a great deal of trouble posting my photo as it was higher than 800 pixels and i didnt know how to change it- i also edited it to see what the tone is like- i can see i still havent the thistles right
id like to show you the proper co,our but its taken me half an hour to just post this one- its been a right hassle- but you can see the confusion in the folds- in the thistles-

complete nightmare really- i had hoped for better success then that really.

[DAK723]

Hi Kate,

Since your pic is in black and white, it is hard to comment on some of your comments, but from what I can see, this is very nicely done! The thistles look good and the flower pot is very well done! My only suggestion on the folds would be to soften the edges of the folds that are behind the thistles so they are not as in-focus, since they are in the background.

Depending on what your goal is will determine how close you want to match the colors of reality. No, you do not have to match them exactly. You just have to be aware of the relationships to the other colors. Is one element darker or lighter in value then another, is the color more intense or duller, for example.

As for the acrylic portrait painted yesterday - well, that was unbelievable. But, while it was his first human portrait, he is obviously a very experienced painter. I have been painting portraits on and off for 30 years and there is no way I could ever compete with that! Does that mean I stop painting because I know some painters are more talented than I am? No way! It's not a competition, or we would all quit (except for a few of the greatest). But it is a reality that we all have to deal with - that there will always be painters that seem to be way beyond us. But who knows, they may click on your painting and say, "Boy, I wish I could paint still lifes like Kate252!"

Here's some advice - stop being so negative, because it leads to failure. Believing in yourself is probably more important that your actual talent level. I know some artists that are nationally famous, with occasional paintings published in books and national competitions. And they are not nearly as talented as some folks on WC that almost never sell a painting. It is because they believe in themselves and act like they are as good as anybody out there. And people believe them! It is like that in many professions. And this painting, even seen in black and white, shows that you have talent! So believe in yourself, 'cause no one else can do that for you!

Don

[llawrence]

which one is it- 99% work or 99% talent?It's 99% work, of course. I've been training my butt off for about seven years now, and I'm still not particularly good. I plan to bulldoze through anyway, despite my self-perceived lack of talent, because I love it. The really good artists you see out there have mostly been training hard for decades.

This stuff is not easy. Non-artists tend to think this stuff just sort of falls off our brushes, but it doesn't. Lest you confuse IanArt's "first human portrait" with "first painting," check out his site here (http://www.natureartists.com/ian_bodnaryk.asp). He's been around for a while.

I've definitely felt the way you have, and fairly recently too: when I'm in front of my several-hundredth live figure, after years of quality instruction, and still manage to botch it, I can beat up on myself a bit. But that's just ego complaining: Why can't I do any better than this? What's wrong with me? And, inevitably: I suck.

Not helpful. If you've done your best and learned something, then it's not a failure but a success. And by the way, the grayscale version of your painting, at least, looks pretty successful to me. The next one will be even better.

[kate252]

thanks for your comments guys- it has pepped me up a bit- i was close to giving up- which is a shame because it kind of keeps me sane- i know thats hard to believe!
that fist human portrait did my head in- in the fact that it was his first try- and to do that when youve never painted a head before- its just not fair!!!!!

i dont think its ego talking- because i dont even try and compete with it- if one day i produce something i am pleased with- i will know ive made it- and that has nothng to do with commercial success- its my own goals i want to reach and i do get so frustrated to struggle so much. ill be over the moon if I ever get to good gallery standard- let alone thinking about being up there with the best- i know i am a try hard painter so i dont expect too much of myself, i really dont- just something acceptable would be really good.in truth- the painting looks better in grey scale- looks better than what it is- its hidden more flaws!!
ive decided to try acrylics for a while
i feel that whilst i love oil paints- they are a little too much for me at the moment- i can kind of paint with them to a certain extent- but having to cope with the mess/the oily rags/ the smell of turps the tubes of oils everywhere and the drying time and everything else- i feel its too much for me at the moment.
also if i try acrylics for a while- i have some already- i can do smaller pieces- some on paper and do it whilst watching tv with my son or something- im a bit fed up of all the rigmarole that goes with oils- im givng them a break!!!!!
im fed up of having to go into a seperate room and have loads of rags on stand by and the oil paint tubes everywhere- and hvaing this oily wet canvas wet to the touch for days
right sick of it- how im longing for paint/brush/water/paper.

[LauraBarber-Riley]

I think your expectations are too high, and you are feeling frustrated and dispondent when you needn't Kate.

The acrylic face guy might have been painting his first face but I doubt it was his first acrylic painting? I paint horses almost exclusively and have never ever painted a human portrait (bar headless riders and small rider faces) but at the end of the day, we paint what we see so in theory I should be able to paint a person at a similarish (big emphasis on *ish*) standard to my horses? So, the 'first' thing doesn't really count in my opinion.

I can't paint in acrylics to save my life, I tried a few months back and the results were hilarious!!!

Some of my idols post on here, it's an amazing place. Easy to get caught up and feel a bit rubbish... I feel like a muppet most of the time but I try and learn from people... but ultimately it's actual painting time that really teaches you I think, with a sprinkle of tips thrown in!

Enjoy painting and stop worrying, it will come :thumbsup:

[NancyMP]

That's life, Kate. It never has been "fair," which is a human concept of how things should be. It just ain't so, and it leads to all kinds of deceptions you try to sell yourself. The truth is, life is not fair, and no one's responsible for your happiness but you.

You have talent, but you're resisting the work. Nobody produces a masterpiece his first time out. There's a saying that you have to paint 120 paintings before you improve. I generally use that as my guide to find progress. (Then after that there's the next 120...) I wish I could be as good as... is just bad thinking, since your only competition is the former you.

Growing is sometimes painful, but you have the passion for art that I wish my talented daughter had. Desire is the third 99% that you already have in abundance. We try to help each other grow and learn here, and at the same time, we're helping ourselves grow and learn.

Validation by others doesn't help half as much as knowing you're are the right path, and appreciating your own struggle to get there. Try to treat yourself as if you were your own baby, beloved and well cared-for.

[CareyG]

I just wanted to emphasize Nancy's entire post. :)

but you're resisting the work.

Do you honestly think that anything really worth doing is not going to take a lot of work? :) Kate, we like to be supportive (you *are* doing well), but you have to find your self-worth inside yourself.

~!Carey

[kate252]

thanks again for comments-
I agree with the fact that its the work that teaches you and is what bring s you on
Nancy- slightly puzzled- but i always welcome peoples views and anyone is welcome to say their views- slightly puzzled about me resisting the work- are you saying im not putting enough work in? you may be right- i do try and do as much as i can, i think at the moment im finding oils really messy and hard work and as im not in full health it takes me quite a bit to get started- once I start i can be going at it all day- this is why ive chosen to use acrylics for a while as it will be easier for me to do it more often.
ofte i feel like painting but dont as i dread dealing with this old pallette and brushes that need cleaning- i know that sounds lame but i have health issues aswell- and when you feel like dogs dinner- oil painting can be a realy demanding thing to do- also if i use acrylics i can paint on paper and do smaller pieces- instead of the idea of the "masterpiece".
i dont set out to do a masterpiece of course- but the idea of doing this final completed painting and for it to never work- really just sets me up for failure

maybe if i work up my skills and then one day i might find myself naturally getting to the point where it works

its easy to say that i dnt believe in myself- i must do otherwise why would i carry on- i still have the residues of art degree hanging over my shoulders- in the end i got dismissed as someone that consistently fell below standard and in the end they gave up on me- which is a shame because my first paintng i did for them was well recieved and i got a 62 for it- in degree standard thats quite high- the tutor who marked it loved it- but as the degree went on its like they took my art away from me and ive never been able to regain it- in a sense- i was marked and evaluated and critiqued and attitudes and comments still ring in my head- some of the painting i did- was earnestly strived for and it was dismissed- i wasnt seen like you guys see me and others- lke n wet canvas there is this view that everyone has the right to paint and to develop and to grow- if they want it its theirs to be had
in the degree world its not like that- they dont appreciate the hours you put in- if they fall short you are dismissed as someone that doesnt cut the mustard and someone who wont ever get it- i think thats wrong- because it should be there for anyone who wnats to paint- and to dismiss anyone like that is just horrible- like there was this uy who liked to do paintings of footballers- he was good but didnt fit in with their way of painting- it was like he painted football because he likes football and sometimes he did his figures quite stilted like- he too was dismissed as someone with little talent- and i think its so wrong- he knew it was wrong- and i knew it was wrong at the time to- thats the whole thing with marking someone and putting smeone in a place compared with someone else

the whole experience sought of knocked me- i produced for them and tried to use the skills i had to the maximum of my ability and it got dismissed- by many tutors who all more or less said it had no value- it wasnt good enough- it fell short etc etc

i dont know what they expected in three years- i dont know why they expected students to take quick route to genius. and sometimes seeing other peoples work on wet canvas- even though i like to see it- and value it etc- but sometimes it takes me back to those days- where you see other students who are doing well and do better in the same amound of time thst i have, it just brings me back.
i need to de brain wash myself of those years, after that degree i didnt do any work and then i started to draw and paint again and thought ill be damned if im going to let a bunch of snotty losers stop me from painting- no one is gong to tell me i shouldnt do it- and i do believe that- its there for anyone that wants to do it- and its their for them- like Nancy has said its their baby.

i think its good that im giving oil painting break- because im falling into this trap of trying to make what a good oil painting should be- which is big massive expectations. so long as i am painting in some form or drawing in some form im generally quite happy- I just cant carry on setting myself up for these finished paintings- expecting accomplished finsihed pieces of work and it not working- or only aspects of them working

painting should be fun- it should be enjoyable and relaxing and at such time it stops being that then you need a re think and to change an aspect about it and i dont want to keep buying these canvases with the exectation that something good is goign to end up being on it. i think its the wrong approach- for me that is.

i have learnt masses aboutt he colour mixing though.

my sons gone out to london today- which gives me a rare Saturday to spend painting- apart from anything- once youve bought the paints its a free thing to do- i know ill be busy all day and i would have spent any money! hooray for that hey. im goignt o sit inf ront of tv doing little acrylic studies of still life on paper- and this new relaxed approach will be so much better for me- this big easel and oil paint moments- they are to much- its to much hassle- i wa nt to chill for a change!!

[shadwell]

I think your expectations are too high, and you are feeling frustrated and dispondent when you needn't Kate.

The acrylic face guy might have been painting his first face but I doubt it was his first acrylic painting? I paint horses almost exclusively and have never ever painted a human portrait (bar headless riders and small rider faces) but at the end of the day, we paint what we see so in theory I should be able to paint a person at a similarish (big emphasis on *ish*) standard to my horses? So, the 'first' thing doesn't really count in my opinion.

I can't paint in acrylics to save my life, I tried a few months back and the results were hilarious!!!

Some of my idols post on here, it's an amazing place. Easy to get caught up and feel a bit rubbish... I feel like a muppet most of the time but I try and learn from people... but ultimately it's actual painting time that really teaches you I think, with a sprinkle of tips thrown in!

Enjoy painting and stop worrying, it will come :thumbsup:



she's hit the nail squarely on the head kate

the man that did that portrait is a superb wildlife artist of many years and works to high levels of realism in his field

his basics are learned shape , form , colour mixing , colour theory ,

in reality whatever he painted it was going to be of a great standard

a great aviation artist i talk to reasonably regular a member at the same aviation art society i go to

also paints fantasy ( he says it is because no one can tell you it is wrong !! ) animals , portraits and still lives

once you learn the basic and finer points on one subject transfering them is relatively easy !!

i do stray into portraiture , and it is surprising how many offer commissions for me to do

i never take them up on it but i am begginning to wonder why not as recently i did a reasonable coloured pencil of uma thurman

most people that saw it liked it and asked if i'd do work

but here's the thing i practicaly always reply " i don't do portraits !"

but evidently it doesn't necessarily mean the abillity isn't there !!

[kate252]

might be some money in it for you shadwell! but i think paint only what you are interested in- otherwise its not interesting enough

ive hopped on over to acrylic forum- ive defected! i noticed this little chalenge where they give you a reference and you paint it and admit it on the same day

anyway- i did it in acrylic- and it is finished- although i dont recommend painting on water colour paper- phew what hard work that was! everything soaked in- anyway i shall post it when my son gets back with his camera
i got the foreshortening wrong- i foreshortened it too much to fit with my shape of paper- classic mistake- but who cares! its a finsihed painting that aint too bad- hooray- even though its small- but couldnt do bigger becase it was copying a photo and i would have fallen asleep- lol- realism aint me-i found acrylic so much easier- what a relief to think that maybe im in the wrong medium for me and this doesnt help me

with the acrylic- i can put the paint down and thats it- i dont have to worry too much - you can do it thin with lots of water or thick out of the tube- and basically that is all there is to it- instantly i found it easier.

and keeping colours clean and seperate is easier- just dip your brush in water and on with the next colour- little chance of contamination


i think the end reslut of acyrlic doesnt look so nice- oil will always be queen of mediums- but for me- someone who tends to over complicate things and takes on difficult subjects- even a plain lemon i tend to see too much into it- so for me it really helps to simplify things.

and it means i can layer and layer is something ive always liked to do- and you cant really do with oils

for now- in this moment in time- acrylics are a blessed change and relief- it was like trying to learn how to sail in a million pound yaht and now im in a training boat. just so much easier and i have that added boost of confidence knowing if i can paint in acrylics that this actually does say something because it can be a difficult medium for some people- some people cant paint with them at all- so i have a confidence boost at long last knowing if i can paint in them im not as incapable as i think- hooray. going to have fun today- done that little reference challenge and next ill get stuck into a little still life on paper- some egg cups on a pattern- maybe a spoon aswell- more than enough to keep me going- just relaxing stuff and ejoyable stuff- what painting shuld be all about really.
(or it could be- that my end result with acrylic is the same as my oils but i have less expectation of myself- so im easier pleased with what i paint)

[shadwell]

acrylics are a good medium , but bring thier own set of idiosyncracies with them

but yes they are very good for working fast and progressing in

i started in oils , but went over to acrylics for ten years to learn various methods before returning to oils

eventualy oils won me over again for ease of subtle blends ( exceptionaly difficult in acrylics ) i still only manage well with an airbrush !!

there is so much to learn in oils it will take years i feel to reach the level you wish to be at

without meaning to be rude and i mean this in the most curteous way
it seems like you want everything to happen now !! when in reality any medium takes years to learn well

but yes we all have a prefered working medium , who knows you may well master acrylics , you never know till you try

[lovin art]

Here's some advice - stop being so negative, because it leads to failure. Believing in yourself is probably more important that your actual talent level.

Don


You said it Don!! and Im agreeing!

[shadwell]

might be some money in it for you shadwell! but i think paint only what you are interested in- otherwise its not interesting enough

)


to some extent that is true , especialy when learning , but sometimes i get given commisions i have no intrest in

as a commision i have to motivate myself and do the best my ability will allow

so far i have only had one complaint but that was mainly the fault of who commisioned it giving terrible instructions as to what they wanted

long story short , they wanted thier child in a scene , i asked are you sure ?? i don't think that will work !!

then they complained he was too small in the scene even after following instructions

sometimes painting what you don't want to improves skills

there are a lot of things i do not like painting in my paintings

however they are a necessary evil to make up my scene ..