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Rod
09-25-1999, 06:54 AM
Just finished this watercolor, paint is still wet. Size 26cms by 34cms on saunders fine 300gm paper. Have looked and made a few changes before finally finishing, what do you think,
Rod.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1476/mini3.gif
Have posted larger image hope it doesn't take too long to load.

bruin70
09-27-1999, 06:38 AM
nicely stylized,,,,the two apples lay tangent to the green bottle, so it looks flat there. the table looks exactly like the background,,,so the whole setting floats. composition is your choice, but i would have placed an element off the napkin to justify the table,,,maybe a piece of candy,,,they all seem buched up where they are. if the object was to be realistic, i would've spread the elements more interestingly on the table,,,give more feeling of space. if it were to be more design oriented, i'd have pushed the 2-d idea more,,,,maybe squeezing the composition by narrowing the sides would flatten it out more, but what you have is fine.
you are very crisp with your glass,,,,GOOD!, they look brittle. the liquour bottles on the right could use a more crisp sparkle to pull them up to the quality of the glasses. nice texture on the front green bottle. i could've just as easily seen this setting with no napkin. the muted tones in the background work well with the greys in the glass/bottles. the white of the napkin doesn't sit as well with me,,,maybe a subtle earth color.
a well done piece,,very clean.

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Rod
10-01-1999, 08:57 PM
Hi Milt,
Thanks for your comments. I would have replied earlier but I was waiting for more critiques, after all that is the purpose of this forum.
I placed the candy in front of the apple because it still appeared to be floating to me, even though I had shadows and reflected color back to the cloth. I will add something to the table top, I agree it needs it,
Thanks again,
Rod.

robinsn
10-03-1999, 03:22 PM
I should have posted my opinion earlier, but time was short and I took a look at it and said to myself, "Rod's getting very good at still lifes!"

There's not much to critique. To nit-pick, the bottles are still not quite realistically symetrical, but much improved over your previous stills. I don't recall this being a problem in the old version, but in this one the apples look pale.

-Randy

Talmadge Moose
10-04-1999, 07:29 PM
The napkin bothers me, the fold in it creates an unnecessary diagonal direction and cuts one epple in a way that draws undue attention to itself. I think it would be greatly improved if you would merely straighten out the napkin. And on the right edge of the picture, you have created a pointer with the napkin that becomes a tangent to the right edge of the picture. If there is such a thing as a rule, it would be to not create tangents to your picture edges. The edges are there, and are going to be dominant. You need not add to this dominance. Let the napkin go on off the right edge.

loveart2
10-04-1999, 08:53 PM
I belive if the background were darker, it would pop out the objects more. It is so well done, but the colors are a little flat. A little change in value of the front portion of table cloth might make it all lie down more.

Rod
10-05-1999, 01:36 AM
Hi All,
Thanks for your comments. I will try some of the suggestions and post the result.
Cheers Rod.

robinsn
10-06-1999, 11:48 PM
Actually, I really like the fold in the napkin in front of the apple and bottle. But I think Talmadge is right about the fold on the far corner. It seems it would be nicer heading off the end of the painting.

-Randy

bruin70
10-07-1999, 02:53 AM
rod,,,i understand the nature of this thread and your posting, but,,,,,,,,,,,can i ask how YOU feel about this painting? what was your goal,,,do you feel successful. that is the most important thing after all. this, and other artists' work here, are turning into a kind of painting by committee. art isn't always about painting things exactly so. it's also about taking advantage of your strengths AND weaknesses to create a particular point of view.....unless, of course, this is all just a rendering exercise.....milt

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Rod
10-07-1999, 04:42 AM
Hi Milt,
I am overall pleased with the painting. Don't forget I am an electronics technician. Painting and computers are my pastimes. I enjoy wet into wet techniques in watercolour.
Each painting to me is hopefully improving my skills and techniques, hence I appreciate all comments. By trying suggestions from experienced artists, I find some agree with my feelings some don't but help towards my goal to develop my own style. Getting back to the painting I was not happy with the left apple, doesn't quite sit right. Decided to crop the painting and remove right bottle and edge fold.
Rod.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1476/glasses.jpg

bruin70
10-07-1999, 02:07 PM
i hope you didn't crop on my suggestion...that was only if you wanted to create a more 2-d, design type graphic. it would flatten your painting, i said,,,,,,,and it did. tha apple doesn't sit well because you placed it almost tangental to the small green bottle,,,as is the other apple. got to go now, but i will explain later why the red apple doesn't sit as well as the yellow....milt

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

Rod
10-07-1999, 02:59 PM
I only cropped it electronically to see how it would look,
Rod.

bruin70
10-07-1999, 03:55 PM
i don't mind the red apple myself...it may look different in real life, though. the yellow apple sits well because is not a chromatically charged color. artists use it naturally all the time to brighten. red is colorful, however, and will pop more( as a color). you've given both apples the same edges yet the red apple, you think, pops too much. yellow, being naturally light, will have crisper edges( it's lighter and clearer). red, given it's darker value, should fade more to the background, and therefore have a different edge. you have also situated the yellow apple better. there are things in front and behind it, so its edges are camoflauged and it sits well. the red apple is solitary and its edges are emphasized. again, as i may have stated in other crits,,,,,you change things to adjust for natures inconsistencies. remember you are taking an image from real life 3d, and representing it on a flat 2d surface. you're dealing with illusion. so instead of painting what you see, you must paint the illusion of what you see. in this case, adjusting for the red apple's chroma and edges to set it back correctly

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"he who thinks he know all and knows nothing is king in a kingdom of one,,,,,or a critic" - the kobe

[This message has been edited by bruin70 (edited 10-07-99).]

robinsn
10-07-1999, 04:28 PM
Milt,

Regarding your comments about "painting by committee" and how Rod felt about his painting. I'm not sure about Rod, but I post work here because I'm trying to learn more about my art and the way it is perceived by others. Each comment is a viewpoint that, for me, gives me an insight into my work that I couldn't get any other way. It doesn't mean that I will agree with or make the suggested changes. I know you're not saying anything bad about this feedback, but I just wanted to clarify how valuable this is to me, just beginning to paint.

The only problem is if you only get one or two comments (like I've had all my life with my drawings, since only a couple people have seen them), because just like surveys, you have to get good participation before the answers mean anything.

-Randy

Rod
10-08-1999, 01:39 AM
Confession time, because I did not like the way the left apple sat I placed the group of candy infront to help anchor the apple. This is probably painting around the problem. I agree there should be something on the table, I was thinking of a candy wrapper opened as though one had been eaten.
As Randy said comments about ones art is very useful, honest direct constructive criticism is hard to get from your family or relatives.
It will definitely help us to improve our skills,
Rod.

bruin70
10-08-1999, 03:02 AM
don't feel guilty about workarounds. in my whole career, i have done two paintings that came out exactly as i planned from beginning to end. you make thousands upon thousands of decisions ,,,each reliant on the previous. i've seen lots of paintings by GREAT artists, where there was a cloth or something hiding a hand,,,probably cuz the hand gave them trouble

robinsn
10-08-1999, 02:05 PM
Milt, I've noticed those type of things on paintings but never heard anyone else comment on them until you. Even so, I was sure that was the case - they had trouble with an area, so covered it with something. Your "cloth over the hand" reminds me of "Mars" by Velazquez, an obvious example, which surprises me, but also it's nice to know even *he* could have trouble!

-Randy

bruin70
10-08-1999, 03:14 PM
all artists get brain lock. or maybe want to change something but not do a whole redo. i think the later is what happened to mars. you're talking about my favorite painting by my most favorite artist. velasquez may have disliked the pose of the hand resting on the handle. i don't think it was that he couldn't paint it,,,,,he could paint anything.

Julia
10-14-1999, 04:32 PM
Hi,

You've a great sense of color, but it seems to me you should work more on the values. This still life lacks the value gradation, and seems to be soaring in the air. The rose apple evidently pops up and is as light as the yellow one. The yellow bottles on the right side are of the same value, though the one farther from you should be darker. The white cloth is too white even in the background. It is of the same value as the highlights on the bottles. Speaking of the highlights, you shoud show the highlights of the glass in the foreground brighter that one closer to the background. I know it's hard to do in water colors, so I think your technique is really fantastic!

Good luck!