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View Full Version : Derwent pastel pencils how big is difference beetween new and old?


JPQ
09-13-2010, 04:12 PM
Derwent pastel pencils how big is difference beetween new and old? when we talk hardness. what i nkow have mainly/only older ones currently. stuff is slowly changing here...

chuas2
09-13-2010, 05:57 PM
I'll let you know shortly! I'd ordered some of the old ones from Dakota a few weeks ago. They called and said to wait for the new ones, so I did, and should be receiving them in the next week or so.

Per Dakota, they are smoother, still a bit larger in diameter (more like Conte) and totally different color system. Stay tuned!
Chuas

KJSCL
09-13-2010, 06:56 PM
The new Derwents "may" be a bit softer than the old ones but not always. I personally don't find too much of a difference performance wise between the two. I would still rank both new and old behind Carb Othello in terms of softness.

The diameter of the pencil is still the same and they don't sharpen any better in my experience. I have tried electric, battery and hand sharpeners but they still break like the old ones or sharpen unevenly, unless you resort to a knife.

The color range is greatly reduced, there are only a few that are similiar to their old line so if you had any favorites in the old line stock up now while you can. The colors are more muted/neutral - there are't that many vibrant colors. The new ones do have a better "portrait" range than their old line if that's important. Overall they are a good pencil but didn't live up to my expectations and hope for an improved line.

My personal experience with them was a case of they should NOT have fixed something that wasn't broken. Their old line had a better color range, more vibrancy and were the only pencil line that offered a light, medium and dark version of each color. I prefer the old line to the new, but still like the Carb Othello's the best.

Hopefully some of that helps but as always try a few to form your own opinion.

Tom Perry
09-14-2010, 04:30 AM
Wow after reading Kathy's answer I'm reminded that no two artists see things quite the same way.

I have full sets of both the new (72) and the old (90).

I definitely prefer the new over the old but at the same time I'm glad I have both. The new set actually has more colors than the old. The old set contains only about 27 different colors plus black and white and several shades of gray. Each of the colors has one shade, one pure color and one tint. The colors are labeled with a number and a letter the letters being B, D, and F. I'm away from my studio right now so I can't remember for sure but I think the B is the shade, The D is pure color and the F is the tint.

Possibly I prefer the new pencils as most of my work is abstract and I found the selection of brighter colors more appealing. I had absolutely no problems sharpening my new set. I found that the pencil would fit in an inexpensive Xacto helical sharpener purchased from Wal-Mart for about 8 dollars. The pencils sharpened to a long point and I believe I only broke one point. That definitely better than average. :)

Might I suggest you purchase a blister pack of 6 or a tin of 12 to try before considering a larger set?

I too have the Carbothellos and love the way they work in some cases but as I do a lot of work on black surfaces they didn't prove to be as opaque as some of my other sets Including the Derwents.

I sensed a smoother application than with the older set. When using the older set some of the pencils seem to be a little scratchy.

I think you may want to try a small set of the older ones. I have the feeling they may be offered at close out prices in the near future.

JPQ
09-14-2010, 06:59 AM
I going buy them one by one where i live i think is too complex get sets (maybe one shop is option but i dont know if pictures have older sets and stuff what they sell is new,and their costs i almost sure are big becouse stuff comes my directly my home,also i must search my password...) and often hues what i really like i unavailable in smaller sets. and sometimes mixing is impossible. for example when i want make details for soft pastel works. and i found oddly some older hues same name have better lightfastness if i found correct older chart for example Deep Cadmium,Magenta. and i somehow even when i made modern works i still maybe like little more older range when i look charts...
just this reason what allready is sayed there are tints...
and this shop selection changes slowly and i almost sure very slowly becouse found years (i almost sure) later when i buyed aquarelle some old hues. and here where i live i think watercolour is more often used than pastels. and watercolour much less when we compare oil paints.
and i only want know their hardness difference ? also other comments
about how easily their break is wellcome. hues i decide my self but if
you have info what is not based taste is wellcome. for examples lightfastness problems,or how well colours mix. and another ones what i can get easily are cretacolour which i understanded are harder and for them at least i dont have lightfastness info. ps. comment for Dakota i live too far away.

chuas2
09-22-2010, 12:48 PM
JPQ, I'm exactly on the same page as Mr. Perry here. New ones are a bit smoother in application, with more (in my opinion) usable colors, although I'm glad I have the old set for some of those truly weird tints that come in surprisingly handy at times! There are a few really nice darks in the new line which is usually my pet peeve with pencils.

I also don't find they break more often when sharpening, but then I almost always use a blade to sharpen pencils anyway.

Hope you find ones you like and can work with!
Chuas

JPQ
09-22-2010, 02:42 PM
i maybe Going test almost offtopic stuff Koh-i-noor Gioconda pastel pencils. One reason is price and at least in picture set looks so lovely colours. but maybe some derwents.

Potoma
09-25-2010, 02:11 PM
I am really enjoying my set of new Derwent 72. Previously, I'd only had a set of 48 Koh-i-noor Gioconda. The difference is that the Derwents actually mark where I want them and the Gioconda have to be scrubbed into the surface to make a mark. You can tell why I didn't use my pastel pencils for a long time. The Derwents come off like a pastel would, just do it in that slender, controlled fashion I'd longed for. As a result, I am using pencils on most paintings.

JPQ
09-25-2010, 09:50 PM
scrubbed means what ? i think you mean needs more power get stuff to paper...

JPQ
09-30-2010, 04:40 PM
I changed my mind again now is should be coming (colour range looks suitable for my style looks like contains bright hues) Talens Van Gogh pastel pencils 24colour set. i maybe later test others but not soon becouse i need so many things. Even in art supplies category.

lonelm
10-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I too agree with Tom on this one. I had purchased a 72 of the old and found them very scratchy in application. I was not happy with them at all. I contacted Derwent and they sent me a set of 24 of the new formula and I will definitely purchase the new set over the old. They have a much smoother lay down and I didn't find the scratchiness of the old at all. Derwent were wonderful to work with and made me a happy customer. JMO but I would go with new.

JPQ
10-04-2010, 04:58 PM
i must check what colours are in sets if some smaller sets have good lightfastyness hues areas what are missing set what i currently get i must think this kind set later. sets becouse currently art supply store dont have new pencils yet...

vanity
10-10-2010, 11:32 AM
I've never had too much problem with sharpening these pencils, only in few cases, but I suppose I might have dropped the ones that wouldn't sharpen without breaking. Though I agree, that some of them were scratchy, like cadmium yellows (these were terrible...). I'll miss some of the old colors, like Terra Cotta or Green Umber. As for the Van Gogh pencils - they are probably the best choice quality wise , but they are also quite expensive.

JPQ
12-14-2010, 04:04 AM
I found new derwent sets place where these are very cheap at least currently... and if price is next year about same i can think full set.:) and i "found" Talens Van Gogh pastels but only 24colour set (biggest one what is found) and is bit limiting.

Mij
12-14-2010, 06:45 PM
i must check what colours are in sets if some smaller sets have good lightfastyness hues areas what are missing set what i currently get i must think this kind set later.
Hello all.
Is there a site that lists the Derwent pastel colours?
I now have two of the boxed 48 sets (no don't ask) and they seem to have different number codes on similar colours with different values. So I have merged the two boxes.
I ususally lurk around these parts but am itching to get started with pastels. I have got JS's Pastel Workbook that was advised on this site a little while ago
Would it be appropriate to put my completed exercises on this page - or is there a better place?
cheers
jimW

JPQ
12-14-2010, 07:01 PM
i dont know if you have old and new set if you have two different 48 sets this looks like only asnver for thing
This link have info about new:
http://www.pencils.co.uk/product.aspx?mid=725
ps. at least i get colour chart about old pencils and their lightfastness when i asked form this (what i linked and i talk main page and this link is subpage) page. no info about sets but i mainly actually want know single pencils.

Tom Perry
12-14-2010, 07:04 PM
Here's the color chart from Derwents Site:

http://www.pencils.co.uk/files/productchart/Pastel%20Pencils%20Colour%20Chart__rtnxowen.pdf

This is for the new blend.

Mij
12-15-2010, 04:55 AM
Here's the color chart from Derwents Site:

http://www.pencils.co.uk/files/productchart/Pastel%20Pencils%20Colour%20Chart__rtnxowen.pdf

This is for the new blend.
Thanks for that, it names all in the new box but there a few which are not in either set - but they can be done without, I'm sure. There is more than enough to cover any holes. Any way, if I listed them perhaps peeps here might be able to say how important (or not) they are in the big scheme of things. I can always get them and cast out those duplicates (if any) or those that have little use.

Ok I'll be having a go at these then. I have a couple of pet portrait oil pastels to do next before Christmas takes over then I can get started.

It is lovely to see so many sketches here every time I log on.
cheers
jimW
PS I tried to upload this reply last night but gave up after about 15 minutes. I presume the site was busy or perhaps maintenace held sway.

Merethe T
12-15-2010, 09:06 AM
jimW, I'll just step in and give you a little info...the right place to post your work, both finished paintings and work in progress is in the Studio and Gallery (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=149). If you'd like comments and critique - or only comments if you aren't ready for critique - just let others know by asking for it when you post your work. In this forum, Pastel talk, you'll find general talk about pastels, materials, techniques and other related subjects. You'll also find our monthly Sketch thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=796841) here, a fun thread worth checking out. If you're new to pastels this thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392571) is excellent.

Now back to the topic at hand, Derwent pastel pencils! Sorry for taking your thread out of track, JPQ...

Mij
12-15-2010, 01:18 PM
jimW, I'll just step in and give you a little info...the right place to post your work, both finished paintings and work in progress is in the Studio and Gallery (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=149).

Thanks-noted.

If you're new to pastels this thread (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392571) is excellent.

Now back to the topic at hand, Derwent pastel pencils! Sorry for taking your thread out of track, JPQ...
The first thing I did a couple of weeks ago was read that whole thread. What an excellent idea and thread content.
cheers
jimW