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ironhorse
03-31-2001, 09:01 AM
I thought I;d post this here as well:
Hi All;
I thought I'd give this for all you people who are good with photoshop to play with. I have no idea how to use it myself! I'm hoping some of you will be willing to give me some better options for background on this painting. It's a 18"x 24" oil on canvas. I was focising more on the horse and wanted an ambigouos background. It worked very well on the painting I did before this one. (can be seen on the title page of my website)

I also need to know form the more experienced oil people if you can paint over varnish?
Thanks for any help
ironhorse www.kodiaknet.com/ironhorse (http://www.kodiaknet.com/ironhorse)
<IMG SRC="http://www.cadvision.com/ironhors/zodiacwc.jpg" border=0>

LarrySeiler
03-31-2001, 09:25 AM
What a wonderful piece. Love the musculature and use of light on the horse. Very solid and very noble.

As to your varnish question...many painters use Damar varnish as a medium. I use copal varnish/medium as my main medium, which dries to a soft sheen the way I use it. Also a natural siccative.

You should be able to apply retouch varnish (a Damar product) to the surface and paint.
However, do not use any drier with the paint, as it needs to then dry slowly and naturally.

As to your background...it needs something yes, but I am not an equestrian buff...
I do picture/fancy an estate and British style mansion off to a distance, or rolling hill scene with sparse trees...painted with intentional blurring to maintain focus on the subject. Becareful though, that you don't end up with a pasted "decal" look of your rider and horse. You could nearly bet on that happening if you do not create atmospheric perspective and lighting to match the values of your subject here.

Larry

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The Artsmentor

"Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Edgar Degas

Gary B
03-31-2001, 09:33 AM
I think the present background works very well, adds to the motion. I would, however, blend the green into the sky down to about one third from the bottom. Nice work.

I've painted over varnish (I use 50/50 turp and Damar or linseed), but I have no idea how long it lasts. So far so good.

Gary

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"First you get you a pen and a ink."

Wolfhound
03-31-2001, 10:36 AM
what a beautiful picture - such energy! I can't say anything about your painting problem as I don't use oils but I'm so taken with this work I just had to let you know. Is it a commission or done for the joy of it? I love dressage and this painting has captured the grace and beauty of the discipln perfectly

Shirl
03-31-2001, 11:10 AM
Wow, this is wonderful!! I hope to do oils this well some day.

This rider/horse is obviously in competition so my choice would be a ring with spectators, but then you might create confusion. Oh my, don't think this is going to be easy. I do think it needs background though.

Shirl (a person who rarely does backgrounds http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif)

Cat52
03-31-2001, 02:02 PM
I think your painting is beautiful as it is. If i were to add anything it would be the short white fence that you usually see around a dressage ring and maybe a letter(marker)other then that I would leave it alone.
Christine

EquineArtist
03-31-2001, 04:07 PM
Wonderful work...the richness of colors in this piece are just amazing. The grass looks live velvet carpet! The horse is superb!!!!
I myself am one of those fellow equine artists who don't do backgrounds so I find this particular style piece just great.
Most talented you are...I hope to paint in oils as beautifully as you one day! Thanks for the inspiration!

tammy
03-31-2001, 09:28 PM
Like it as is. Can't help with the Photoshop. sorry http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/frown.gif

Doesn't look like it needs tho. The green grass really makes the horse stand out. Very nice.

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Don't worry, its gonna be all right....
Tammy's Home for Artists (http://tammy.artistnation.com)

Roan
04-01-2001, 04:39 AM
Twyla,

Gorgeous! Personally, and I have been known to dabble, I won't dare touch this with PhotoShop http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif You might want to post in Critiques and contact Henrik, he's one of the moderators there, and see if he'll give it a go. He's pretty good at that stuff and often helps me with my backgrounds. Hrm, so's Arlene and she's there, too.

I'm guessing he'll say to darken the background (a line of trees?) somewhat as the rider gets lost against the light blue sky. I know the horse is the focal point, but in dressage the rider is important too, especially in this piece.

My that horse has a lovely extension!

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">"Bu shoilleir a dhreach, 's bu luath
Shiubhal: Sith-fada b'e ainm." --</FONT c>
<FONT size="1">"Shining his coat, and speedy
His pace -- Si-Fada his name."
Si-Fada = "long pace"</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) <--- supply resources for pastelists!

[This message has been edited by Roan (edited April 01, 2001).]

ironhorse
04-01-2001, 10:14 AM
Thanks gang for all your suggestions so far.
Roan's idea of trees had really struck me as a good idea!
I too thought about doing a small dressage fence but was warned against it by a friend who rides and trains dressage. Apparently your not allowd to have leg wraps on a horse in competition. So unless I redo his legs thats out. It makes sence too the photo was taken during a breeds of the world demo, not a competition.

Iseiler: I used Goldens MSA Varnish with UVLS. DO you think that it will still be OK. I've never used varnish as a medium? I do have some of the retouch varnish. SO I just paint a light coat of the retouch and then paint on that? Sorry just want to make sure I get this down.

Roan: I did post this in critiques havent gotten much responce yet. Is there a way of asking these people directly?

Wolfhound: No comission I saw this photo and just had to paint it. I've seen this stallion many times and he is all boy! His name is Zodiac and I beleve he's a Canadian warmblood. Porbably registered as something else too but I can't remember. I had great fun painting this one!!
Twyla

Roan
04-01-2001, 01:31 PM
Twyla,

I replied in Critiques so that your post would go to the top of the list. People don't lose sight of it then.

I think both Henrik and Arlene have been busy, but their emails are posted in that forum.

As I said in my other message, I'd give it a shot myself but I suck at trees :P

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<FONT face="Script MT Bold"><FONT COLOR="#AB4835"><FONT size="5">Roan</FONT s></FONT c></FONT f>
<FONT COLOR="#8A1010">"Bu shoilleir a dhreach, 's bu luath
Shiubhal: Sith-fada b'e ainm." --</FONT c>
<FONT size="1">"Shining his coat, and speedy
His pace -- Si-Fada his name."
Si-Fada = "long pace"</FONT s>
RoanStudio.com (http://RoanStudio.com) &lt;--- supply resources for pastelists!

LarrySeiler
04-01-2001, 02:35 PM
...as goes demonstrating with Photoshop, I must apologize....as I am quite overwhelmed with necessary tasks that require my attention as well. Sorry,

-Larry


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The Artsmentor

"Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Edgar Degas

ironhorse
04-01-2001, 07:11 PM
Larry you are a wealth of info! Thank you.
I would think it's dry (but who really knows for sure?) I paint very thin and live in a dry climate. So most of my paintings are dry to the touch over night. I did not varnish it for 1 year just to be sure. And it's been a year since it's been varnished. But to be on the safe side I'd going to the site you suggested and I think I try and get a hold of Golden and ask them too.
I don;t actually plan on fixing this right away. Don't have the time with baby coming!

Roan
thanks for all your help!
Check out the new backgrounds Randy did for me in crititques Way Cool!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Twyla

GC
04-01-2001, 09:41 PM
I think you have done a wonderful job on especially the horse. The muscles, the sweat everything shows up naturally.

Ginette

LarrySeiler
04-02-2001, 12:39 AM
The real danger in applying further layers of medium, paint and varnish over something such as this is that the painting as is is not 100% chemically dry.

Some thinking their work to be dry, because it is dry to "touch" will add something on the surface that would in essence dry faster than the painting beneath it. The result is, the surface constricts and literally pulls the painting beneath it apart, causing cracks.

An oil painting takes 2-3 months to dry to touch without a drier added, and 3-6 months to dry chemically. With a drier added it is faster, but here too is a problem. Some driers (known as siccatives) dry from the surface down, and what feels dry to touch does not guarantee the pigment molecules throughout are absolutely dry chemically. Other siccatives such as a "true" copal medium (not the resin cheap imitations found in most art stores), attach themselves molecularly to the paint pigment particles and dry uniformly.

I use copal because it provides a quality of the paint sitting exactly where I want it, bringing out the best in the color I'm after. When it dries...it has a natural varnished sheen, and hardens the paint thoroughout.

At any rate....I'm not familiar with the product you used, so cannot tell you if the painting is chemically dry or not. You might find out by visiting Don Jusko's exhaustive site (about 240 pages) which has info on all types of pigments, mediums, varnishes, histories, techniques, etc; http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/

For sure...you don't want to add a drier to this surface, remembering the old "fat over lean" principle. You'd want the paint to dry slowly, thus not forcing any constriction at all. The retouch varnish prepares the surface such that the paint will take root. What you may want to ask Don on his site is if he knows any reason Damar will not be the right union for your medium and varnishes used. I'm quite confident he will know. Good luck....

Larry


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The Artsmentor

"Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Edgar Degas