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View Full Version : Moluccan revisited.


BevL
11-05-2000, 04:45 PM
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<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Critiques/User/fanphoto.JPG" border=0>

I don't know if both images will post in the same space. Here is my revised moluccan. The background is green (thalo), it just looks more blue in the photo. Still more work to do, but do you think it is coming along okay?
The actual photo should show up here, if I did it right. As you can see, it is pretty void of colour, but I liked the pose and I could see the feathering pretty good. I work with what I have. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif

dduchene
11-06-2000, 06:26 AM
this looks super Bev......coming along great..the only thing I would do at this poing is to bring up the highlights a bit more, on the beek and feather tips....give it a little more contrast...just a bit though, easy to go overboard in that area.
By the way, nice to see more and more Canadians here http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif I am from Windsor originally...stuck in Quebec now though..attempting an escape soon lol.

good luck with the moluccan...Darrell

BevL
11-06-2000, 09:03 AM
Thankyou, Darrell.
Yes, the highights really do have to be reinforced. Funny thing, that. Seems even stroking on bright white isn't showing up. I realize I have to take it down with a wash of *something*, and re-establish them over and over. LOL, Larry threw me off now by putting that green in there. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif I had used a blue/orange wash the first time around for the darker wash, but now I'm having to think about which colours to use now. You see, I understood blue and orange to be complimentary, so I did the background blue because the bird is a pastel orange. But green is complimentary of red, and I'm assuming that's why Larry used the green- because of the red crest? Am I right Larry? And the effect is amazing!
But my brain is really having to work now, and it isn't used to that...
So I have to now figure out what colours I need to use to wash over this to push it back. I don't mind. This is how I will learn. (how does one control the urge to toss the painting in the trash and start over?)
Of course, I hafta wonder what confusion I'll go through in the next painting, which might very well be a green and yellow bird. LOL
oh, and a word about highlighting the beak. A cockatoo doesn't have any shine at all on its beak, due to the powder that covers it from preening. The feathers produce a powder, so the beak is always dull. I can highlight the beak as long as it doesn't shine.

[This message has been edited by BevL (edited November 06, 2000).]

LarrySeiler
11-06-2000, 01:22 PM
Yes, the highights really do have to be reinforced. Funny thing, that. Seems even stroking on bright
white isn't showing up.

while a nuisance...and that it will take a lifetime commitment, making something brighter is usually not at all about adding white. I have a conte lesson on self-portraiture possibly coming up very soon on Artschool, and you will see how I used yellow and yellow green to highlight the side of my face. It looks very bright.

It really comes to learning how color responds to each other, both mixed together and placed side by side.

Larry threw me off now by putting that green in there. I had used a
blue/orange wash the first time around for the darker wash, but now I'm having to think about which
colours to use now.

and that is good...to think, that is. The green is a bit more warmer than the blue, and its yellow (mixed with blue to make green) as a warm color adds a bit of psychological edge to the piece. Unconsciously, when we use warmer colors, we cause the viewer to "warm up" to the subject. To think warm and fuzzy thoughts and find it inviting. Your blue colors of the background psychologically push the viewer away. Make it think of it as a "nasty" bird.

The greenish background makes the red plume stand out and sing. So..I used the green to compliment the red, and the warmer presence to make the bird more delightful.

Larry

[This message has been edited by lseiler (edited November 06, 2000).]

BevL
11-06-2000, 04:01 PM
Aaaccckk!
(banging my head against monitor)
Okay. I'm calm.
I'm afraid my feathers are beginning to look more like rose petals. I've worked it and worked it, and I think I worked it too much. I tried to tone down things with a wash, and then bring the highlights back in. But, it kinda looked muddy. Lost that peachy glow, ya know? But I kept going. I'm thinking the feathering is starting to look too 'solid'. Can I fix this?
I'm going to keep at it, even if it means I end up tossing it out and starting all over. (and I'm [] this close to doing just that!)

Please tell me why my greenish highlights look more like the bird rubbed against wet paint, instead of looking like a reflection of light?
~sigh~
tolepaintingwasSOmucheasier!

LarrySeiler
11-06-2000, 04:26 PM
It would be good to see it Bev...and maybe not so enlarged like this head...so I can see it in context with the background.

There usually is the "safe" route to go as a painter...you know, stick to what has worked. However, "the mind stretched can never return to its former dimension!" ....and, you will not be able to deny the heart's wanting to grow.

Any time you make major changes or breakthru's, it takes "X" number of works to master it. The trouble is, you are doing commissions so that increases the pressure for its necessity to work! Perhaps you might wish to reserve future experimentations on works not promised to others.

What you are going to want regardless...is to paint birds that look three-dimensional, and as though they exist in actual space and environment. Otherwise they will look flat and less appealing.

I used to do 20-30 layers of transparent washes to get feathers just right...but, I have thru plein air painting learned to suggest things much faster. Heh...it took me nearly 24 years, and of course...no one (including me) wants to wait so long to become "good."

Remember Edgar Degas's statement- "Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!" Chew on that one a bit! Meanwhile...I can't really suggest anything further until I see what you've done.

btw..you never work acrylics too much. Watercolors yes. Acrylics can be painted out, painted back in..over and over. Its never done or failed until your say so or surrender to it.

Larry

BevL
11-06-2000, 05:00 PM
Thanks, Larry
This isn't a commission, thank goodness. I don't do commissions. It would drive me batty. Besides, I'm too lazy to *have* to do a painting, and I know I'd lose all enthusiasm once it became a 'job'. So, I have all the time in the world to practice. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif
So it really doesn't matter how long it takes me to get this one right, although I must say it was easier when I was doing it all wrong. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif
Okay. I'll see if hubby can scan this tonight so I can show you exactly what is what. The digital camera doesn't give the higest resolution and distorts the colours.
I'm willing to keep going. I am the type that is impatient and want to see a finished painting hours after I begin. I better lose that attitude, huh? Because I also want it to be the best I can produce.

dduchene
11-06-2000, 05:26 PM
Time to step back Bev...leave it go until you rescan and repost...do you ever view your work in a mirror?..to get a new perspective?..that sometimes helps me whe I am not sure where to go next...which is more often than not..usually the solution comes not in front of the canvas, but on the way to work..or in a restaurant...but it will come eventually.
What larry said about white is very true...whits does not always equal bright. Try placing a spot of yellow ochre next to a spot of titanium white on a dark background and tell me which looks brighter. The only time I use straight white is when I plan to glaze colour over it to give it that little extra glow, but white alone has very little use for me.
Hoping to see your next scan soon Bev http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

Darrell

animal
11-07-2000, 11:32 AM
Bevl,
Your bird paintings are so good. I have tried painting but it gets frustrating at times when it doesn`t turn out right,Lol. So right now i am just drawing,might try coloured pencil again..If I practice more painting, maybe it could be easier, but keep up the painting of your parrots and cockatoos. I am going to get a books on parrots soon and maybe I`ll draw some of them and post the for you all to see.




[This message has been edited by animal (edited November 07, 2000).]

LarrySeiler
11-07-2000, 01:20 PM
That's right Bev...like Bill Murray's movie, "Baby steps...baby steps!"

Each new piece of learning is a new piece of the puzzle. Each tidbit of understanding is a new key that unlocks some mystery, yet elevates us just high enough to realize that the edge or limits we thought we could see... (that which defines our collective knowledge) goes far beyond the outreaches we first thought.

That sounds overwhelming when you are starting out, but it is also good news! You realize that as long as there is new stuff to learn, it is worth gettn' up in the morning and starting a new day!

It was like that metaphor I have tried several times to share now. If you think of the summit of a mountain we are all striving to climb, we discover most climbers at the base of the mountain. All are excited...busy chatting of their expectations and intentions.

You start climbing...you see some taking rests. Some are wrapping up sprained ankles and go no farther for some time. As you climb higher still...you see less and less people.

You come upon one group that somehow has managed to convince each other that the view is just fine from where they are at and that it can't really be all that much more spectacular at the top anyway, so why expend yourself on the climb?

As you continue to climb...you see and pass fewer and fewer climbers. In fact, you see some going back down.

Climbing takes time...determination...preparation, conditioning. Then it takes focus, and you learn to talk to yourself, to encourage and prod yourself on.

One of the most frustrating aspects is having to see others convince the many that reaching the height you have isn't worth the consideration or effort. On the other hand, one of the greatest joys is seeing some regather their determination and trust that you know what you are speaking of when you motion them and yell, "C'mon...the view is spectacular!" Gathering their stuff, they work and find their way higher.

It is also gratifying finding others that understand when in describing your experience, they know exactly what you're saying.

Hey C'mon Animal...everyone else, we are talking about a lifelong commitment with something that promises to be challenging and fulfilling throughout all of your life! That's nothing to get discouraged about! It is also a good reason to honor and appreciate those whom by default of age and stubbornness stand where one day you hope to stand! Follow their example...which includes realizing they too had to overcome their impatience and many frustrations!

Its a privilege....making art, its a celebration! YEEEEeeaaahhhhoOOOooooo!!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Larry

LarrySeiler
11-07-2000, 01:20 PM
That's right Bev...like Bill Murray's movie, "Baby steps...baby steps!"

Each new piece of learning is a new piece of the puzzle. Each tidbit of understanding is a new key that unlocks some mystery, yet elevates us just high enough to realize that the edge or limits we thought we could see... (that which defines our collective knowledge) goes far beyond the outreaches we first thought.

That sounds overwhelming when you are starting out, but it is also good news! You realize that as long as there is new stuff to learn, it is worth gettn' up in the morning and starting a new day!

It was like that metaphor I have tried several times to share now. If you think of the summit of a mountain we are all striving to climb, we discover most climbers at the base of the mountain. All are excited...busy chatting of their expectations and intentions.

You start climbing...you see some taking rests. Some are wrapping up sprained ankles and go no farther for some time. As you climb higher still...you see less and less people.

You come upon one group that somehow has managed to convince each other that the view is just fine from where they are at and that it can't really be all that much more spectacular at the top anyway, so why expend yourself on the climb?

As you continue to climb...you see and pass fewer and fewer climbers. In fact, you see some going back down.

Climbing takes time...determination...preparation, conditioning. Then it takes focus, and you learn to talk to yourself, to encourage and prod yourself on.

One of the most frustrating aspects is having to see others convince the many that reaching the height you have isn't worth the consideration or effort. On the other hand, one of the greatest joys is seeing some regather their determination and trust that you know what you are speaking of when you motion them and yell, "C'mon...the view is spectacular!" Gathering their stuff, they work and find their way higher.

It is also gratifying finding others that understand when in describing your experience, they know exactly what you're saying.

Hey C'mon Animal...everyone else, we are talking about a lifelong commitment with something that promises to be challenging and fulfilling throughout all of your life! That's nothing to get discouraged about! It is also a good reason to honor and appreciate those whom by default of age and stubbornness stand where one day you hope to stand! Follow their example...which includes realizing they too had to overcome their impatience and many frustrations! btw...overcoming past challenges only equips us for new ones. It never ends.

Its a privilege....making art, its a celebration! YEEEEeeaaahhhhoOOOooooo!!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Larry

------------------
"Art attacks can skill!"


[This message has been edited by lseiler (edited November 07, 2000).]

animal
11-07-2000, 05:12 PM
Larry...
Art is fulfilling http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. I am just frustrated when a painting doesn`t turn out, but I know it all comes with practice. Guess I`ll have to practice more with painting and still draw more http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

BevL
11-08-2000, 12:48 AM
Thankyou Animal'
I can relate to your feeling frustrated. I felt very much that way since yesterday. But this morning, I re-read your post below titled frustrated. And I read what Larry said to you. Yes, the thought of doing a hundred or two hundred paintings before we start to know we are getting good at it is daunting to say the least! I mean, depending on what else we have going on in our lives, it could take anywhere from a few months to a few years. But each step is closer to our goal.
You know, every other painting I've done, I did it in an afternoon or two. It was easy, and I didn't even have to think about it. Yes, easy when I didn't know how. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/wink.gif
Now I realise what has been missing, and I know that in order to make them really good, I have to start at the very beginning. When I think about all the things I don't know, as opposed to the little I do know, it is pretty intimidating. It's either keep on, or give up. I don't want to give up, but I also am overwhelmed by what it means to keep going forward.
I may never see the birds I paint in real life. I try not to let that stop me, because it is important to me that I paint them.
So I guess in order to get where we want to be, we just have to put one foot in frontof the other, and keep going. http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

animal
11-09-2000, 07:34 PM
Bevl,
If you type in "avian art"you can find many other artists doing their parrots and other people`s parrots in different mediums.