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citrine
08-05-2010, 08:23 AM
I've read that according to Carmen Garrido Velazquez's palette was very limited.

It basically consisted of --
White: lead white and calcite
Yellow: yellow iron oxide, lead-tin yellow, and naples yellow
Orange: orange iron oxide and vermilion
Red: red iron oxide, vermilion, and organic red lake
Blue: azurite, lapis lazuli, and smalt
Brown: brown iron oxide and manganese oxide
Black: organic black of vegetal or animal origin
Green: azurite, iron oxide, and lead-tin yellow
Purple: organic red lake and azurite

Is anybody able to tell me what name all of these pigments would be sold under today? Or what the modern equivalent is?

I'm pretty sure, for example, that smalt and lead-tin yellow are no longer used, surely there are modern versions?

I ought to know the names of pigments and their relation to tube paint names better, but sadly I don't. I have no idea what yellow iron oxide is :( :o -- and that's just the start of it!

I've also read somewhere that he used a warm black and a cool black.
Again, I don't know what that means in terms of tube names.
Is Ivory black cool, and Lamp black warm?
And is that what he would have used?

Many thanks to all you colour experts!

Robotus
08-05-2010, 09:22 AM
White: lead white and calcite
Lead white is commonly called flake white. Few manufacturers genuinely make it.

Calcite AFAIK is not commonly used anymore, though I don't know why.


Yellow: yellow iron oxide, lead-tin yellow, and naples yellow
The iron oxide colors now go under many names. Mars (yellow, red, black, ect), a good deal of the time, hues named after earth pigments are really iron oxides such as yellow ochre and burnt sienna. Sometimes they will use real earth, but I suspect the coloration still mostly comes from iron oxides.

lead tin yellow is probably another name for naples yellow which is another lead based color and most do not carry it.


Orange: vermilion
From cinnibar, a mineral containing mercury. Not commonly used in paint today.

Red: organic red lake
IDK. As a rule of thumb, however, lakes tend not to be lightfast.

Brown: manganese oxide
?

Blue: azurite, lapis lazuli, and smalt
Two semi-precious stones (expensive) and smalt, according to wikipedia, is crushed glass.

Lapis Lazuli was used to make ultramarine. Ultramarine has an interesting history. Today there is a "synthetic" ultramarine which is much more cost effective.


Black: organic black of vegetal or animal origin
Bone black ( commonly called ivory black), Vine black, Lamp Black.

Gigalot
08-05-2010, 10:39 AM
Calcite is widely in use today as filler or extender in oil paints especially for organics pigments. Most of manufacturers use it as much as possible:D
Vermilion (HgS)has the same molecular structure as Cadmium Red (CdSe)
Most of organic synthetic pigments is organic lake that means organic dye precipitated on (with) transparent or semitransparent inorganic base.

sidbledsoe
08-05-2010, 11:13 AM
I've read that according to Carmen Garrido Velazquez's palette was very limited.
Start with this (http://www.artiscreation.com/Color_index_names.html)as a reference and you will begin learning the pigment numbers associated with the names. Bookmark it and look up these respective numbers for the colors to gain info about them such as names, properties, etc.

It basically consisted of --
White: lead white PW1 or 2 and calcite chalk, PW18
Yellow: yellow iron oxide yellow ochre, PY43, lead-tin yellow no #, probably not very available now , and naples yellow PY41.
Orange: orange iron oxide mars orange, PR102 and vermilion, PR106
Red: red iron oxide venetian red, PR102, vermilion ditto, and organic red lake ?, maybe rose madder NR9
Blue: azurite PB30, lapis lazuli, Natural ultramarine PB29, and smalt PB32Brown: brown iron oxide and manganese oxide probably mars browns, burnt and raw siennas and umbers, PBr7.
Black: organic black of vegetal or animal origin lamp and ivory black PBlk6,7, or 9.
Green: azurite, iron oxide, and lead-tin yellow dittos plus green earth, PG23, the iron oxide.
Purple: organic red lake and azurite again ditto, ? azurite is usually blue to a greenish blue, maybe heating it some would make it lean purple because enough heat turns it black, I don't know:confused:

Is anybody able to tell me what name all of these pigments would be sold under today? Or what the modern equivalent is?

I'm pretty sure, for example, that smalt and lead-tin yellow are no longer used, surely there are modern versions?

I ought to know the names of pigments and their relation to tube paint names better, but sadly I don't. I have no idea what yellow iron oxide is :( :o -- and that's just the start of it!

I've also read somewhere that he used a warm black and a cool black.
Again, I don't know what that means in terms of tube names.
Is Ivory black cool, and Lamp black warm?
And is that what he would have used?

Many thanks to all you colour experts!
My identifications are not intended to be entirely precise and accurate at all, I just wanted to give you a start in this endeavor.
They are just my best guesses because I never saw his studio and supply of pigments. It is just meant to give you a start in identifying them. I gave natural pigments for the most part and many of them are man made now.
Iron oxides (think of rust) are a big family of earth colors, yellow iron oxide is most often called yellow ochre. But iron oxide colors range from yellow, orange, brown, and red, to violet.
Every black I have ever encountered or used has been blue biased or leaning towards what most consider "cool". What some consider a "warm" black would be one that leans toward a "warm" color like brown or orange. I have been told that mars black can do this but I have used two and both were blue biased. Brands can vary, one lamp could be "warm" another "cool".
Temperature, names, sources, shades, synthetics, naturals, tint strength, brand, pretty much everything can vary considerably.
Here is another resource (http://www.essentialvermeer.com/palette/palette_anatomy_of_paint.html)for you to read about these paint/pigments. Although it is concerned with Vermeer, you will see that he shared much of the same palette colors as Velasquez. Click on the list of colors and each one is briefly descibed, good luck.

good luck

Gigalot
08-05-2010, 12:02 PM
http://naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=820-309

You can find such natural pigments here. Lead-tin yellow, Azurite, Naples yellow, Lead white e.t.c:)

Horsa
08-05-2010, 01:30 PM
Cheap Joe's has a line of watercolours based on natural pigments and intended to replicate the paints of a couple of centuries past. Other than that they are available, I cannot speak to quality etc. IIRC the catalog includes some information about pigment numbers etc.

llawrence
08-05-2010, 02:13 PM
White: lead white and calcite
Yellow: yellow iron oxide, lead-tin yellow, and naples yellow
Orange: orange iron oxide and vermilion
Red: red iron oxide, vermilion, and organic red lake
Blue: azurite, lapis lazuli, and smalt
Brown: brown iron oxide and manganese oxide
Black: organic black of vegetal or animal origin
Green: azurite, iron oxide, and lead-tin yellow
Purple: organic red lake and azurite

Is anybody able to tell me what name all of these pigments would be sold under today? Or what the modern equivalent is?

I'm pretty sure, for example, that smalt and lead-tin yellow are no longer used, surely there are modern versions?Every color you mentioned is available from Rublev at www.naturalpigments.com (http://www.naturalpigments.com). However, if you'd like modern equivalents:

The oxides you mention are all earth pigments: yellow ochre and red ochre, the siennas, the umbers, terre verte. Those are all still widely available, as well as some more modern synthetic versions.

The blacks are approximated by ivory black (animal) and vine or lamp black (vegetal).

There are a few Naples yellow hue colors offered by various companies (as well as a few that offer the real deal). A replacement for lead-tin yellow - dunno. Cadmium yellow light maybe?

The closest color to vermilion would be a cadmium red light or cadmium scarlet.

The red lake is likely a madder lake, you can get Winsor & Newton's rose madder genuine for that. Some painters prefer a quinacridone rose for permanence.

Smalt is a cobalt color, but it actually looks closer to ultramarine in hue and transparency. Ultramarine would probably cover both the smalt and the lapis lazuli.

Lead white - different grades of lead white are still available from several companies.

I don't think there is really a modern equivalent to azurite, which possesses very different characteristics depending on how finely it is ground. Perhaps a combination of cobalt blue for the darker shades, and cerulean blue for the lighter shades? Not sure how close that really is though.

It sounds like you're planning a Velasquez study. If so, good luck and please show us the results!

Gigalot
08-05-2010, 03:47 PM
Most of medieval colours like ocre, umber, sienna and Verona green earht were high quality transparent pigments not available today.
Today most of these names associated with dull, opaque poor quality pigments.
Synthetic iron oxides are often dull and opaque and can`t replace originals.
Only newest synthetic transparent iron oxides for special automotive "perlescent" coating may be only close in quality with medieval paints. And there is nothing good to replace great Verona green earth!

Einion
08-05-2010, 04:27 PM
13-15 colours in total - not that limited :D Although the colour range isn't that wide of course it is actually more than double the size of palette many painters have used in recent years.

1, Lead White
Can be sold as Lead White, Flake White and Cremnitz White (and a few other names which are less common). Titanium White can be substituted if you don't want to use white; you might like to pre-mix this on the palette with a little sienna to get close to the colour of Flake White.

2, a black or two
Bone Black (sold as Ivory Black) and Lamp Black, as well as others. You could easily work with just one of the two, no absolute need for both.

3, a yellow earth
Yellow Ochre, Yellow Oxide, Mars Yellow etc.

4, an orange earth
Orange Oxide, Orange Ochre, Mars Orange etc.

5, a red earth
The red earth could vary a lot; this could be something semitransparent like Burnt Sienna or something opaque/very opaque like English Red, Terra Rosa, Ercolano Red, Venetian Red etc. These also span quite a range of colour, from very orangey to closer to red (few red earths are actually red in hue, despite the name).

6, a brown earth or two
The browns might be approximated by many modern brown paints, with the manganese one possibly being like Raw Umber or Burnt Umber; these are obviously are quite different normally but what he used could have been many things.

7, Vermilion
You can still get Vermilion if you want to be authentic, but I'd recommend a search of WC first for some threads showing the patchy lightfastness of a number of current versions (it's also a mercury compound in case this matters to you). If you'd like to be more assured of permanence I would recommend substituting Cad Red Light or Cad Red Medium - the hue of cads varies, as did that of Vermilion so no way to be sure of quite the colour he was using.

8, a red lake
This was likely to be a madder lake, which you can still get if you're not concerned with lightfastness; an Alizarin Crimson is going to be pretty similar. If you want something more reliable I'd recommend Pyrrole Ruby (PR264).

9, Genuine Ultramarine
French Ultramarine. You can still get high-grade Natural Ultramarine (sometimes sold as Fra Angelico Blue) but it is staggeringly expensive; it's also gritty by modern standards.

10, Azurite
Although it won't match its qualities as a paint, in colour terms a Cerulean Blue could stand in for Azurite.

11, Smalt
Could skip this - a mix or combo of French Ultramarine and the Cerulean is probably fine as a substitute for Smalt, although again it won't match in any way the qualities of the genuine article (which was quite transparent and coarse).

12, Lead-Tin Yellow
You can still get this but honestly, I'd recommend a Cadmium Yellow instead, as both cheaper and a better colour. If you wanted an alternate that's closer to a direct stand-in for Lead-Tin Yellow then one of the lighter shades of Bismuth Yellow wouldn't be too far off (both are slightly 'whitish').

13, Naples Yellow
Naples Yellow varies a lot in colour (it's also a lead/antimony compound in case this matters). You can still get the real thing and there are numerous modern substitutes; true Naples Yellow can be far yellower but my favourite Naples Yellow Hues are based on PBr24, which are a subdued orange-yellow in colour.

I've also read somewhere that he used a warm black and a cool black.
I'm not certain but I think there's a good chance that this is more of a modern interpretation, rather than truly reflecting his understanding of, and use of, colour. With a single black it's very easy to make both blue-biased and orange-biased (brownish) tints, just by using it by itself with white for the first or adding in a little of an earth for the second. Also nothing to stop a painter using black, white and some blue if he wanted to make a blue-grey (something that we know was done by some painters historically).

Einion

citrine
08-06-2010, 01:18 AM
Thank you sooo much for the information that you have all provided. It has really helped!
I knew that the Wet Canvas folks would know straight off!

I've bookmarked everything suggested - including the pigments colour list, so that should help immensely in the future.

(BTW - yes 13-15 pigments is a lot, but I believe that was the sum total of his entire output. Most paintings were done with 5.)

Thanks again - you guys are great!

llawrence
08-06-2010, 12:03 PM
(BTW - yes 13-15 pigments is a lot, but I believe that was the sum total of his entire output. Most paintings were done with 5.) That's an important point. Many (but not all) artists who use a limited palette today are beginning with a limited set of high-chroma colors which are used as a mixing set to create an entire painting. But in the past, many of the high-chroma colors were so expensive as to prohibit this approach for many painters. In particular, lapis, azurite and a good red lake were all quite pricey (more or less so, depending on the time period and geographic location). So much of the painting of past eras was accomplished with earths, blacks and lead white. The brighter colors that were used in mixes might have been colors like vermilion, lead-tin yellow and smalt - the more expensive ones generally being saved for "special occasions." (There are exceptions of course.) That's pretty limited compared to using a full-gamut secondary or split-primary palette today.