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Finnegan18
08-02-2010, 10:42 AM
If it has digital and collage elements?
If it is an original painting that I have photographed and then photoshopped?
If it is an original artwork that I have photographed and then photoshopped and then embellished?
If it is a photograph of mine that I have photoshopped?
If it is a photograph of mine that I have photoshopped and then drawn over?
Thank you for your help.

Ramie Leigh
08-02-2010, 05:47 PM
Go for the top-most significant layer, and / or whatever is most relevant and logical.. what do you INTEND the work to be?

If I do an acrylic painting on panel, photograph it, and then tweak the photograph in Photoshop to correct lens distortion and correct the color to better match the original painting, I don't call that a 'photomanipulation' when I post the work (for example), here on WetCanvas. I call it what it is, an original acrylic.

If it has digital and collage elements?

Collage of what - photographs? Or have you printed out digital works and are collaging them? If you're using Photoshop to crop together photos, that's photomanipulation. If you're printing out bits of whatever and using acrylic medium to stick 'em into art, that's mixed media.

If it is an original painting that I have photographed and then photoshopped?

Digital art, if you've 'photoshopped' the painting such that the result no longer is 'identical' to the original.

If it is an original artwork that I have photographed and then photoshopped and then embellished?

Printed out and then embellished? Or embellished in Photoshop? If you've embellished it in Photoshop to create the finished product, then the finished product is digital art. Just call it like it is: if I do a pencil drawing on paper, and then use Photoshop to slap a quick grey-and-white tone over it, then I post it with a description such as 'Graphite on paper. Tones added in Photoshop.'

If it is a photograph of mine that I have photoshopped?
Depends on how 'photoshopped' it is. MUCH fine art photography these days involves extensive post-production in Photoshop. You could say 'Digitally manipulated photograph' if you want to be 100% honest (always a good idea!)

If it is a photograph of mine that I have photoshopped and then drawn over?

Drawn over how? Printed it out and then drawn over it? Or drawn over in Photoshop? If you're printing photos out and drawing over them, it's mixed-media art. Being specific about the process is always most honest. If you're using photoshop to do the draw-over, it's digital art.

Long story short, just tell the truth. Explain what you did. 'Mixed-media' is such a vague term that it's practically deceptive, so if you have to call it a mixed-media, go on to describe what you did.

kennychaffin
08-02-2010, 06:53 PM
What she said.

MaloCS
08-02-2010, 07:42 PM
Good grief. Not to be the thorn in the side but holy cow, whatever happened to just creating great art. Why do I have to justify my work and how it's created? Jeez, if I have to think that hard just to label my work then I'll just stop being an artist.

I just don't understand the mentality that says "the medium defines the art". When I see a great piece of art I could care less what the medium is; I only care about the fact that the imagery stirs up some sort of emotion in me. Sure, as an artist I'm interested in how the piece was created but to make one of my peers justify their creation and their process is just pointless in my mind.

I know artists that paint a simple under painting in acrylic and then finish the piece in oil. Is this an acrylic painting or an oil painting? I don't know and I really don't care. I think the only people that care are other artists because for the most part, our community is always trying to find something wrong; as if the medium determines one's authenticity in the community. I'm an oil painter so I'm better then a digital painter, etc.

Good grief, let's just be creative and supportive and judge each other by the piece and not the medium.

kennychaffin
08-02-2010, 09:09 PM
Good grief. Not to be the thorn in the side but holy cow, whatever happened to just creating great art. Why do I have to justify my work and how it's created? Jeez, if I have to think that hard just to label my work then I'll just stop being an artist.

I just don't understand the mentality that says "the medium defines the art". When I see a great piece of art I could care less what the medium is; I only care about the fact that the imagery stirs up some sort of emotion in me. Sure, as an artist I'm interested in how the piece was created but to make one of my peers justify their creation and their process is just pointless in my mind.

I know artists that paint a simple under painting in acrylic and then finish the piece in oil. Is this an acrylic painting or an oil painting? I don't know and I really don't care. I think the only people that care are other artists because for the most part, our community is always trying to find something wrong; as if the medium determines one's authenticity in the community. I'm an oil painter so I'm better then a digital painter, etc.

Good grief, let's just be creative and supportive and judge each other by the piece and not the medium.

The problems come when others try to mislead about what they have done. I'm all for judging the results but with all art there is an aspect of creativity that must be part of it.

If I press a button and print a page and call it art it hardly has the same level of thought and creativity as a portrait painted by hand.

You may not want to acknowledge that but most people do.

hans.kok
08-03-2010, 04:50 AM
I think creativity is seen mostly in the image, not so much in the technique. Of course, Digital makes it easy to mislead people, but we should trust our fellow artists on WC at least. Anyone can just take an image from a work of art from the web, post it on WC and claim it is his/her. What is the point? At WC we don't sell art and the only thing we can gain is the admiration of the WC crowd. If people want to cheat for that, well, it is just pitiful. Let us not occupy ourselves with this possiblity too much.
Creativity is all about creating, making something new. If someone can express an idea by " digital mixed media" I think it is wonderful and just as valid as when someone paints in oils. I saw many images that had wonderful technical skill, but were not creative in the sense that they didn't produce a new image, but rather a copy of an existing image (mostly a reference photo). On the level of creativity there is in fact no difference of showing the reference photo or a skillfully made copy of that reference photo in whatever media. Outstanding technical skill by itself does not lead to a creative masterpiece.
Hans

Finnegan18
08-03-2010, 11:30 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Aug-2010/96641-Photoshop_9_Stained_Glass_and_Sumi.jpg
I took an original watercolor painting and I photoshopped it in a couple of different ways. That sounds rather a silly and long-winded descripton. I mean, would I then follow that with all of the filters and artistic effects or would I simply call it a Mixed Media Altered Photograph. I have also started to print these and collage them with other elements glued to them. :)) I am making ATCs with them. :))

Finnegan18
08-03-2010, 11:36 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Aug-2010/96641-ATC_1496marisk.JPG


Since I am trading art, I don't think anyone is accusing me of trying to put something past someone. I just wanted to know what to call my ATCs when I base them on my original paintings that I love to alter in photoshop and then sometimes I collage stuff over the top of them. That is all. :))

Finnegan18
08-03-2010, 11:39 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Aug-2010/96641-ATC_1513.JPG

In this one the original painting wasn't altered in Photoshop but was put into an ATC-size and then collaged over so that most of the original is no longer visible. What would I call that?

Finnegan18
08-03-2010, 11:45 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Aug-2010/96641-Photoshopped_2.JPG

This one can be compared to the original which is featured in my signature line. What would I call this one. Very close to the original but altered.
I don't even try to sell my art anymore. I just make art for art's sake. I am self-taught and since I didn't go to art school I have to ask people lots of questions in order not to a) sound like a moron and b) in order to be accurate. I have no reason to fool anyone with an inaccurate or deceptive titiling. I just wanted to know what the heck to call these.

Finnegan18
08-03-2010, 11:48 AM
p.s. I love working in Photoshop. No worries about toxic exposure, no worries about desposing of mediums and solvents. No need to part with my originals. It is so much fun too. :))

Goldeelocks
08-03-2010, 01:14 PM
Good grief. Not to be the thorn in the side but holy cow, whatever happened to just creating great art. Why do I have to justify my work and how it's created? Jeez, if I have to think that hard just to label my work then I'll just stop being an artist.

I just don't understand the mentality that says "the medium defines the art". When I see a great piece of art I could care less what the medium is; I only care about the fact that the imagery stirs up some sort of emotion in me. Sure, as an artist I'm interested in how the piece was created but to make one of my peers justify their creation and their process is just pointless in my mind.

I know artists that paint a simple under painting in acrylic and then finish the piece in oil. Is this an acrylic painting or an oil painting? I don't know and I really don't care. I think the only people that care are other artists because for the most part, our community is always trying to find something wrong; as if the medium determines one's authenticity in the community. I'm an oil painter so I'm better then a digital painter, etc.

Good grief, let's just be creative and supportive and judge each other by the piece and not the medium.
The first thing I usually want to know is what medium was used. The second question I ask myself or the person, if it was from reference, from memory or from imagination.

It's really important to me and I do "in my own mind" judge pieces by it. It's not something I do on purpose, I can't help myself asking those questions in my mind on every piece. I need to know how it's made or I'm not able to say anything about it.

The majority of drawings here on the forum for example use really fine pencil lines to draw instead of full strokes. I personally never do this and I can't even begin to think how many hours people spend on those, I would not feel at home there usually, I learned to draw with open arms and with full strokes in dark values, not the tiny miniature pencil paintings. I am in the digital section mostly, because I feel at home here more (even though I draw lots too). So the medium creates my comfort zone.

I used to post on another forum and people used lots of old master techniques, lots of underpaintings and a lot of neutral earth colours. Didn't feel confortable there either, because a lot of new paints are saturated and I try to use them where I can.

It's not something I can control.... I just want to know.. it helps me find people who are "like me" or work like me, so I feel comfort when I am around them.

Goldeelocks
08-03-2010, 01:32 PM
p.s. I love working in Photoshop. No worries about toxic exposure, no worries about desposing of mediums and solvents. No need to part with my originals. It is so much fun too. :))
I feel the same way and I think many do. I do use Acrylic a lot, if you're worried about toxins you can just replace the cadmium paints with alternatives. For cadmium yellow, you can use hansa yellow for example which isn't toxic at all.

I really like your bird "collage", it's nice.

MaloCS
08-03-2010, 04:18 PM
It's really important to me and I do "in my own mind" judge pieces by it. It's not something I do on purpose, I can't help myself asking those questions in my mind on every piece. I need to know how it's made or I'm not able to say anything about it.

This is exactly my point. Most artists are very competitive and/or envious of another artist's skill, talent or imagination. As a community we try and find reasons why the beautiful artwork we're looking at is not as good as it appears. Whether it's consciously or subconsciously, as a community, we try and raise ourselves above our peers.

"I know this portrait is very beautiful but the artist created it using Photoshop. I don't cheat, I paint all of my portraits by hand with oil paints."

OR...

"Sure... he's a very talented person but if he was a true artist he would be in the Fine Arts department instead of the Illustration department."

The above quotes are very common in our community and as artists I'm sure every one in this room has heard something similar. Why do we do this to ourselves? The person buying the artwork could care less if it was painted in Photoshop or on canvas; all they care about is having a beautiful piece of artwork to hang on their wall.

I'm sure other artists privately criticize my work because I choose to use layers, filters, blending modes, masks, textures and every other tool the digital medium offers. Honestly, I really don't care what another artist thinks about my work; I only care about the opinions of the people buying it. Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy sharing my work with my peers but at the end of the day the only opinions that matter are the people buying it. Additionally, I can honestly say that for each piece of artwork I've ever sold the buyer did not care one iota about the medium. They care more about the process, the inspiration, the choice of colors and the meaning then what medium was used to create it.

kennychaffin
08-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Also want to say that we've had a "pencil artist" here in the drawing and sketching forum that draws by using a filter/drawing program on a photo and then claims that he did the drawing by hand and has gone so far as to produce WIP images. His work has been removed from this site, but is still up on another site I frequent. I really despise that sort of thing.

Crowwoman
08-04-2010, 06:17 AM
To simplify it even further...If you did not paint it stroke by stroke by hand using your mouse or tablet/stylus...it is DIGITAL ART.
~!~Crowie

kennychaffin
08-04-2010, 06:28 AM
That's pretty much my major categories and good separation I think.

Digital Painting - done in the traditional manner starting with a blank canvas and painting stroke by stroke

or

Digital Art - Paint-overs, manipulation, filters, processing, etc.

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 10:04 AM
I appreciate all the help but I feel more confused than ever. I mean if I collage things on top then it is more collage than digital art or digital painting. It is more altered. Also, the fact that I usually start with one of my paintings that I may put a filter or two on seems important to convey. I originally had called these things simply Photoshopped and then the number. for example, Photoshopped 1, Photoshopped 2, etc. But that sounded assinine. I see some people on flickr are calling their stuff Mixed Media/Altered Photos and I am going to go with that. After all if, as I am planning to do next, I take the thing and slap gesso on it and color it with some sharpies and then more gesso to get a bleed through effect and I have partially to totally obscured the original digital image which is a reworking of my own painting to begin with - well, I hardly think that calling it Digital Art or Digital Painting would be anything close to an accurate description of what I am doing. Maybe this category of art doens't really have a settled description. There is controversy around for sure. Our gallery is all up in arms about what to call it. Submissions come in and clearly photoshopped photos are winning over traditional photography. Wait until they see what I am going to enter. LOL I wanted to know what to label the damn thing but I guess I will wing it. If I don't collage or alter it I guess I will simply label the whole process out. That would be the most accurate and the most infomative and the least assinine of my choices. After all Photoshopped 1 sounds awkward and stupid. Well, thank you all. I will stumble around until I find what feels comfortable to me.

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 10:13 AM
p. s. Unlike most artists I meet my goal is not to sell my art. I will sell it but that is not the reason I create. I create because I feel passion for it. I have to create. I have been painting for almost twenty years and I still find a thrill out of the fact that anyone would want to hang it on their walls. If I ever lose that I hope one of my friends will smack me in the back of the head. If I ever get a huge fat ego I also hope one of my friends smacks me in the back of the head. In fact, they are instructed to do so. One of the benefits of trading art is finding a community of people who lift each other up, share techniques, and are in every way outstanding to deal with. My life is so enriched by this daily nurturing of the creative spirit. Anyway, if you would like to trade you can find me on flickr.

Crowwoman
08-04-2010, 12:09 PM
I think you are trying to over complicate things. Digital ART is anything NOT painted stroke by stroke..by hand with a mouse or tablet/stylus. If you manip, filter etc etc...that is DIGITAL ART...period! ~!~Crowie

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 04:02 PM
No, I am trying to ask what to call it if it is part of a collage.

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 04:04 PM
I get what the difference is between digital painting and digital art. I understand that concept. It is pretty simple. But if you take a digital painting or digital art and then you embellish or alter it what is called then.

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 04:05 PM
What if you draw or paint over it with acrylics or oil pastels or india ink what then is it called?

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 04:16 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Aug-2010/96641-Art_Journal_2.JPG

I am not trying to be difficult just searching for the answer to my question. I make so many different forms of art. I can't see how either of these fit into the digtal art category. So, what then, would be the name to call them.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Aug-2010/96641-ATC_1254lorna.JPG

kennychaffin
08-04-2010, 05:22 PM
I think you are complicating things by trying to name it something special. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with DIGITAL which is what this forum is about. Digital Art and Digital Painting.

If you are taking photos and painting them with acrylics or oils or gluing things to them, what do you call it?

No different in my mind if you start with a digital print and paint over it or glue things to it.

It has nothing really to do with digital because digital is not the final result it appears to be only a starting point as far as what you are doing.

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 06:50 PM
I see where the confusion is now. I posted this in the wrong forum. That is, part of my question needs to be answered elsewhere. I do some digital stuff - purely digital and I did learn from you the difference between digital art and digital painting. Thank you. I am sorry if I seemed dense to any of you. I work in a wide range of techniques and mediums and I forget that some people work in one or just a couple. Anyway, thanks for helping me. It is so hard to communicate via written form sometimes. I feel like I offended a couple of people here without meaning to. I don't know if it is because I didn't communicate clearly or if they didn't know to direct me elsewhere or if it is just the subject of digital art that gets people a tad defensive but I apologize if I bothered anyone in any way and I thank you for tolerating my pestering you with questions. It is important to me to know what to call the various forms in all the myriad ways in which I work with the digital images - in whatever form I start and end so that I can properly name anything I submit to our gallery. We are a very rural area and part of our mission is to educate the local community. So, I try for accuracy. More and more artists are seeking to explore digital art and many mixed media artists are likely to do all sorts things with their images. Perhaps that is where I should have asked this. At any rate, I appreciate you and will go away now. Thank you. :))

Eraethil
08-04-2010, 06:53 PM
You are creating mixed media pieces. If you need to explain further for someone, just tell them how you created that individual piece. If a competition requires you to specify the media used in your mixed media pieces (only one that I've seen), include watercolour, acrylic, digital, and collage, depending on the painting.

Getting more complicated in your description only gets more confusing.
Cheers!

Finnegan18
08-04-2010, 07:00 PM
YOu are my savior. Thank you. I was just about to go to the mixed media forum and post the question but you answered it. Thank you. :clap: I think everyone thanks you. :clap: :wave:

kennychaffin
08-04-2010, 07:13 PM
Off Topic!

Rick, I love this: Edmonton, where summer is just a couple of bad weeks of skating.

:lol: :lol: