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Kimber74
03-15-2001, 02:18 PM
Can anyone tell me why acrylic colors come out of the tube so much lighter than oils or watercolor? I find it hard to get the nice/rich darks I want because the colors start out as if white has already been added, and I end up muddying them up trying to make them darker. Am I buying the wrong brand of acrylic (liquitex)?
I'm interested in using them like oils.

Kim

Dima
03-15-2001, 03:07 PM
Hello Kim,

Acrylics may look somewhat lighter as they come out of the tube because the binder/medium is milky white in its liquid state. Once the paint dries up the milky white turns into a colourless transparent and that is why acrylics have this colourshift to a darker value when drying up.

Rich darks can easily be had though with acrylics by mixing some of the darker transparent colours.
Try mixing colours like Phtalo blue, Phtalo green, Quinacridone violet or red, Permanent alizarin crimson and Quinacridone burnt orange in various ways, sometimes adding some Hansa yellow and you will get an incredible range of dark colours.

Possibly Golden paints may get you somewhat darker darks as they contain no matting agents.

Hope this helps some.

Dick

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LDianeJohnson
03-15-2001, 03:15 PM
Hi Kim,

A few things to try...

Order a full color chart from Liquitex. It is great, and shows all their colors at a glance, what mixes achieve what colors, and also shows each color's value range. In addition, it demonstrates which colors are transparent, translucent and opaque, as well as their tinting strength.

If you generally paint with rich, strong darks, here are some mixtures with Liquitex that will give you blackish yet color-filled mixes. Just adjust each color to gain a warmer or cooler tone:

Ultramarine Blue + Burnt Umber
Alizarin Crimson + Phthalocaynine Green

The paint itself is generally more viscous than oils so till you get used to them, just use more paint.

Try using pure versions colors, rather than the ones that obviously have more white added up front. For instance, to create greens, mix yellows and blues instead of using Chromium which is nice but can look chalky. And avoid any tubes that say "hue".

Hope one of these thoughts may help.

Diane

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L. Diane Johnson (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/) NAPA, PSA
Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops/)

Kimber74
03-22-2001, 02:03 PM
Thank you Dima and Artistry!

Your advice and suggestions make alot of sense. You wouldn't believe how long that question had been on my mind. I'm also going to order a color chart.
thanks a bunch!

Kim

jnet11
03-31-2001, 02:25 PM
hey kimber

don't really have a suggestion, except for practice http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/biggrin.gif BUT ... I use Liquitex almost exclusively, and am terribly fond of them, they work very well for me. Check out my site to see a few of my pieces if you like.

cheers and I look forward to seeing some of your paintings,

jeanette*

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"I get tired of either sense or nonsense if I am kept very continuously to either and like my mind to undulate between the two as it likes best." --Bagehot to his fiance

cromag
04-28-2001, 10:19 PM
hi everyone ! so, you can mix freely with acrylics?
i never used them, however, can you mix colors much in the same way as with oils?

also i was wondering if anyone knows a bit about vinyl paint. i read that they are also water mixable but what is the difference between them and acrylic, if any?

and....also are they toxic! as i have to keep the air pure for the loveley little people who inhabit the world outside my studio door!

thanks,
dante

VictoriaS
05-03-2001, 02:36 PM
Hi, Dante:

Yes, you can mix paints and mediums any way you like with acrylics. I don't know anything about vinyl paints, though. Acrylics don't have the smell associated with oil paints and their solvents (I would assume vinyl paints likewise do not smell -- they're both plastic). So you don't need to worry about fumes, but certain colors (cadmiums, for example) are toxic if ingested, and you wouldn't want them to be on your skin for long periods of time. The toxic ones are labeled as such.

Victoria

cromag
05-03-2001, 09:18 PM
thanks victoria, this is all new to me! i really enjoy these boards i feel like i can be a total dunce and still get the basic info about just about anything!

thanks,
dante the dunce signing off for now http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/smile.gif

cuttlefish
05-07-2001, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by cromag:

and....also are they toxic! as i have to keep the air pure for the loveley little people who inhabit the world outside my studio door!

thanks,
dante

Acrylics do contain a small amount of ammonia which may give off vapors, and they will emit minute quantities of formaldehyde when heated. Most pigments are non-toxic, except for those containing (in descending order of toxicity) cadmium, cobalt, chromium, and nickel. Do not load such colors into an airbrush or other sprayer. You don't want to inhale or ingest these, and you should avoid prolonged skin contact. Pigments containing lead or mercury are even more toxic, but are not in any commercially available acrylics.

mame
05-07-2001, 07:32 AM
Acrylics will dry darker than when wet. You can lose the lights and may have to compensate a bit up front. I think Liquitex are way too full of binder/filler. Prefer Winsor-Newton, Golden or Graham brands.

jnet11
05-21-2001, 10:54 AM
another something I've stumbled on is to check if the paint you are buying is a 'pure' color or has been mixed by the manufacturer. For instance, my liquitex cad red isn't a pure cad red, it's a mix of a couple other colors, which include white. So, if I want to mix red with black, I experience a graying out, which I definitly DON"T want. So, I bought a pyrhol (sp?) red, one that has no white in the mix, now I can mix fine. A lot of other colors are like that too.

ONce you explore what ever colors you're buying, you can buy fewer and fewer, because you learn to mix yourself the colors that come in tubes. At this point, I only buy a color if it's 'pure'.

j*

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"I get tired of either sense or nonsense if I am kept very continuously to either and like my mind to undulate between the two as it likes best." --Bagehot to his fiance

LDianeJohnson
05-27-2001, 05:28 PM
Dear sarkana,

Welcome to WetCanvas and the Acrylics forum!

I have a favor to ask you. Could you write a brief article regarding the creation of your own acrylics and post it to WetCanvas? The last paragraph of your message was most interesting.

I rarely hear of artists making their own acrylics...pastels, oils, watercolors, yes...but not acrylics. It would be a great contribution if you could put something together from what you have experienced.

Thank you for posting.

Diane



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L. Diane Johnson (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/) NAPA, PSA
2001/2002 Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops/)

LDianeJohnson
05-27-2001, 05:34 PM
Kim,

In answer to your question...I would try purchasing the Liquitex color chart/book.

When viewing this color chart (which can be formed into a circle), you can see which colors to mix to create the darkest darks you seek as well as any color in it's desired value.

From this, you can add other brands/colors to achieve what you are looking for. No one brand contains all the colors. Cross-brand-buying is common/desirable if you especially if you are used to using certain colors.

D.


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L. Diane Johnson (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/) NAPA, PSA
2001/2002 Plein Air Workshops (http://www.LDianeJohnson.com/workshops/)

sarkana
05-28-2001, 12:31 AM
i strongly agree! mostly the colors mixed by large manufacturers are a way of hiding expensive pigments with less expensive ones. and they are really unpredictable in mixture. don't buy anything if you don't know what pigment it is. oil painters can be obsessive about this and there's a lot of information about different pigments in their forums if you are interested.

the most important difference between acrylic brands for me is the quality of the vehicle, the consistency of the acrylic stuff itself. i started out with liquitex, but moved on to golden, which has a nicer binder. then i switche d to oil painting. then i started making paint. now i make my own acrylics, which you can also do! here's how:

get a matte or gloss medium that you like, add pigment dispersion (or "liquid watercolors" also work). mix thoroughly, either by shaking vigorously in a jar, or by mixing it out on a pallette. i know a muralist who has a set of blenders he uses for this purpose in his studio. you can also use dry pigment if you mix it with a little water first. experiment!

Originally posted by jnet11:
another something I've stumbled on is to check if the paint you are buying is a 'pure' color or has been mixed by the manufacturer.
...
ONce you explore what ever colors you're buying, you can buy fewer and fewer, because you learn to mix yourself the colors that come in tubes.



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