How do I go about having the right support dimensions?

[Mathieu1980]

Hi,

I'm planning on starting painting again, and also to go outside this summer. (I am building an outdoor easel now, kindof a french easel / big pochade hybrid, it's getting kinda big though).

I was wondering about how you guys handle support sizes and dimensions.
If I want to decide on the spot what size and dimensions I want the painting to be, how do I go about it?
How do you guys go about this? Do you just bring some standard size panels and paint on whatever you brought with you?

I don't suppose I can saw the panel in the right size afterwards, or can I?
Is it possible the tape a piece of canvas to a board and cut and glue it to a panel afterwards?

Or is none of this really a concern for you?

Well, thanks for answering if you do ! :)

[Kmart]

I have taped a canvas to board and painted on it. I have always left a margin all the way around the painting, say 1.5" so that I could stretch it afterwords. The only problem with this, is that it can smush some of the impasto that is touch but not fully dry.

You might want to search for "making your own panels" or something similar. I'm sure there is a lot of info on this subject.

Please post pics of your easel.

[Mathieu1980]

Hi Kmart, thanks for answering

I'm not sure what you mean by 'smush' (not English), but it doesn't sound really good ).

I searched for how to make panels before, you're right a lot of info about it. But those threads are not about how to resize a panel after you're painting is done, only how to make and prep a panel.

I can't really find info about this anywhere, that surprised me a lot. I thought this would be a common issue, but apparently I'm being too difficult or something.
I just thought it would be a common thing that if you bring, say, a 40x50cm panel, but on the spot you want your painting to be 34x48cm?

Maybe I'll just have to experiment with it.


Oh, as for the easel, It's lying around in bits and pieces right now :0. I took the legs of a cheap french easel and I'm making a big pochade box (about 40x50cm) out of light wood (stretcherbars) on top basically. But I'll probably post some pics when it's nearly done.

[Gobidharma]

In general, the choice of panel size comes down to several issues:

1. To what expense would you like to go in terms of framing.

2. What shape would best fit your subject matter.

3. How much time will you have (larger vs. smaller)



First, custom sized panels are going to require custom sized frames. Standard sized panels can fit standard sized frams, and therefore open more options later.

Second, if you don't know what you're going to paint until you get there, there's not much you can do to plan ahead, other than carrying a variety of panel sizes and shapes with you (which is not unwise).

Third, if you're not opposed to returning to work on a piece over several sessions, then size is not really an issue. If it is, it will center around how large a support your easel will hold and how manageable that is under the weather conditions.


There are many ways to prepare panels as grounds for paintings. Some methods may not lend themselves to being easily cut to size after they have been primed.

I am a fan of adhering a very light canvas or polyester to the panel, both for strength and for added texture. I also like to use a chalky home made gesso.

One of the best methods I've seen for making panels can be found here:

http://www.realcolorwheel.com/gettingstarted.htm

I use a similar process, but tend to opt for Ampersand Hardbord as it warps less than plywood. Occasionally I'll also prepare these with a leaded white ground.

[Mathieu1980]

Thanks, also for the link Gobidharma.

Sometimes I just make things too complicated, but I like to think about these things on the other hand.

Those panels look great!
And that sitting easel is really a funny thing to see, but it works))

[Al Skaar]

Hi Mathieu -

All of the options you mention are possible.

I have cropped a couple of paintings I did on canvas mounted on panels by running them through a table saw. Adhere a strip of tape along the cut line first to prevent the canvas threads from tearing out.

I watched a video of Richard Schmid painting on location. He taped a large canvas to a piece of plywood. He said that he would stretch the canvas when it was touch dry. Since the edges of the painting were not distinct he could crop the final painting for the best composition. In fact, during the painting session he put an extra piece of tape across the bottom of the image to mark the bottom of his painting, then removed it again later and extended the foreground down a bit more. The drawback to this method is that you have to have custom made stretcher bars to fit the composition you want.

It is possible to remove a painting from stretcher bars, cut off part of the painting to improve the composition, then restretch the canvas on a new stretcher frame. I've never tried it myself so I don't know how difficult it might be. I have illustrator friends who used to ship finished oil paintings on canvas, rolled in a tube, to the printer. When the paintings were returned to the artists they sometimes stretched them on frames for exhibition.

You can also mount the finished painting on a panel but, as Kyle mentioned, you have to be very careful not to crush any passages of thick paint.

I personally carry panels in standard sizes. it's convenient and they are light weight for carrying in the field. But I know that I will want to "resize" some of my pieces to improve the compostion from time to time and can easily do it with a saw.

- Al

[Mathieu1980]

@ KMart:

I can show you this:
Working on the lid right now. Won't be a backpacking thing :). And it's gonna have a lot of wingnuts, but I don't really care about that.
The wood is bad quality, bad I think It'll be okay if I can prevent it from rotting.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2010/183754-easel1.jpg

[Mathieu1980]

Hi Al Skaar, thanks a lot!

This gives me some confidence to do such a thing, I needed that! I never heard anyone talking about it before. Just gives me a good feeling there are more people doing this, even mr Schmid!

[acadianartist]

Hi Mathieu from the Netherlands!

I always bring at least two sizes - a smaller and a larger (usually an 8 x 10 and an 11 x 14 - that's in inches of course). I make my own panels out of mdf board, that way it's cheap and I have actually cut boards myself with a heavy duty exacto knife in a pinch. I have also cropped paintings on these panels after the fact. I've also taped canvas to a board and mounted it afterwards - this works quite well too. But the panels are the easiest for me and I can have my local hardware store cut me lots for almost nothing.

On a slightly different note, many will tell you to start small for plein air stuff, and for some, this means really small (5 x7"). I find, however, that I am most comfortable with an 11 x 14. Anything smaller I feel cramped and the paint goes on too thick in an effort to cram in too much small details. I need some elbow room! But bigger than 11 x 14 is also a challenge for me since it would take me too long and the light would have changed too much.

[JoeKaz]

I keep a supply of standard size panels in my car so they're always on hand: 5x7", 6x8", 8x10", 11x14" - these are sizes I know that I can get ready made frames for, and I rarely go larger than that en plein air. But recently I've taken a liking to a wider format and I painted a 7x14" painting on an 11x14" panel. I'm pretty sure that I can cut this down to 7x14 but you can bet that I'll be very careful doing so!

And as Al said, you can paint on a loose piece of canvas, then later cut it to size. But again, the question is do you want to stick with standard size frames or custom framing.

[Saturday Painter]

I've seen people at invitational plein air events painting on a large panel but marking off the size and dimensions that was wanted at the moment; presumably with the purpose of taking the table saw to it when dry. I've painted on canvas taped to whatever and then mounted to panel when dry using an acid free white glue, rolling out bubbles with a soft brayer/roller in the process. Some suggest using a heavy application of acrylic gel medium (up to 1/4 inch thick) in lieu of the thin application of white glue.

Vicki

[Mathieu1980]

Wow, thanks everyone for this much input. People on these forums ARE very kind, you guys must be painters :).

acadianartist, I wanted to use mdf, I can't get masonite over here anyway. That's very very interesting, cutting it with a knife! That's great if I can do that!
And yeah, I don't want to make those tiny paintings, but I can see your point about the limited time frame. I'll have to figure those things out with trial and error I guess.


JoeKaz, I'll be careful of course! If I ever make something that I feel I could call art, I don't think I will stick to standard sizes necessarily though. Not if I really think it would be better in a non-standard size. What is standard over here in the Netherlands, will be in cm and that won't be a standard in inches. So if I would ever sell something, if it would be over the internet to somebody from the US it could be a problem anyway.

Too bad I don't have a car, that would solve a lot of problems :o. That's one of the reasons I'm making this easel lightweight for it's size.


Saturday Painter, well, so it does seem a lot of people resize there supports after all. As long as you're careful doing so, it can be done.
And I even learned a new word today (in lieu) :lol:


Thanks guys!


Mathieu.

[acadianartist]

Hi again Mathieu,

Some people use birch veneer cut up in the appropriate size. Cutting MDF with an exacto knife is not the easiest thing to do, but it can be done, yes!

I also hike quite a bit with my gear, often just because I like exploring my own backyard (quite literally, I have a very big backyard!) rather than driving around aimlessly looking for a subject close to the road. Anyway, you should definately consider weight and comfort. My entire setup weighs about 15 lbs. I can showshoe for about half an hour through thick woods, over frozen streams and up and down steep hills with my gear on my back. And then paint for an hour or two and do it all again, in reverse. But my shoulders ache by the time I get back. Still, wanted to let you know it can be done. I carry 1/8th of an inch mdf board (usually two panels, as stated), but birch veneer is even thinner. Many other supports could be considered, provided you prepare them properly.

[Mathieu1980]

Hi acadianartist/Chantal,

Showshoeing, thick woods, frozen streams, all in your backyard ... That must be a very big yard INDEED. Got me wondering away a bit...
I would offer you to trade backyards, but you won't take :p

15 lbs is just short of 8KG. The easel (including legs) I think is gonna be about 4.5KG / 9-10 lbs. But that's withhout paints, panel, foamboard panel carier, and everything else. Weight is gonna be okay I think, I don't mind some carrying.
The size and shape maybe will frustrate me a bit, we'll see.
I just really really want to have a big one-piece pallet, this was the smallest I want to go. If it's really too much, I'll go for something else.


-Mathieu

[HankB]

I also take a few different sizes with me if I'm painting on boards. I've painted on linen sheets taped to a board and liked it very much. I then glue them to boards before framing but only if they're worthy. I also paint on gessoed paper taped to a board. I usually compose to my canvas/panel/paper/etc so I don't consider cropping, but cropping paper is obviously very easy to do with a mat.

[Mathieu1980]

Hi HankB,

You do some magic with acrylics! I tried that at first, but there are several things about it I don't like. Can't paint with oils yet either, but I have a feeling I could learn that.

You gave me an idea though. I have some plastic sheets, almost thin like paper. If I'm able to sand and prime those, I could use that to paint on for starters. Maybe give it some texture with acrylic gel.

[acadianartist]

Hi acadianartist/Chantal,

Showshoeing, thick woods, frozen streams, all in your backyard ... That must be a very big yard INDEED. Got me wondering away a bit...
I would offer you to trade backyards, but you won't take :p

15 lbs is just short of 8KG. The easel (including legs) I think is gonna be about 4.5KG / 9-10 lbs. But that's withhout paints, panel, foamboard panel carier, and everything else. Weight is gonna be okay I think, I don't mind some carrying.
The size and shape maybe will frustrate me a bit, we'll see.
I just really really want to have a big one-piece pallet, this was the smallest I want to go. If it's really too much, I'll go for something else.


-Mathieu

Yes, trial and error is the only way. Make sure you have a good way to carry it all - I have a well-padded backpack that everything fits in or attaches to neatly. You can carry more weight if it's properly distributed.

And yes, I have a 13 acre backyard and not looking to move, but hey, I'd trade with you for a month! Lots of beautiful things to paint in the Netherlands! Land is relatively cheap here and once you've experienced the swarms of mosquitoes trying to carry you away in the summer, you'll know why.