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harriet
09-23-2002, 08:19 PM
Hi Everyone,

Here I am still having trouble with shading yellows. Recently I have been trying to do studies of peaches also....the results are TOO sad to even post. I really need HELP!

If anyone can post any suggestions for colors for shading yellow or painting peaches I would be sooooo grateful. Feel free to post pictures if you have them or care to do them. I'm getting really frustrated with this, as I have been working on it for some time with not much progress:o

Thank you so much for any help at all.

harriet:cool:

MikeN
09-24-2002, 02:48 AM
Hello Harriet,

You should post your image so we can get a better feel for your problem. Ive always considered yellow local color to be an easier color to deal with. I just cool it down a bit, sometimes with a muddy green color. The hue of the shadow is less important then the value, IMO. Make sure your values are in order.

I hope to see your post.
Mike

Gareth
09-26-2002, 02:54 PM
It depends on the type of medium that you use. If you're using oils then try putting the tonal values down first in a monochrome underpainting and glazing the yellows over. Bear in mind the finish that you want (high or low) and underpaint accordingly.

harriet
09-27-2002, 06:34 PM
Mike and Gareth,

Thank you both for your replies. I will try both suggestions and see if I can get better results.

Thanks again for sharing your ideas!

harriet:cool:

doe
09-28-2002, 08:45 AM
Hi, I'm fairly new here - but saw your question re peaches and since I have an old painting on my computer of peaches, thought I'd share it with you. This is a pastel and I assume you're working in oil but the colors would be the same. My peaches don't have very much yellow but a light purple or a light green are both good shading colors to use.

harriet
09-29-2002, 03:53 PM
Hi Doe,

These look great! Thank you for your suggestions.

harriet:cool:

donjusko
09-29-2002, 11:58 PM
Hi Harriet,
Do you have a set of colors you are using?
Do you have to use those colors?
Would you like a set that will allow you to mix any color without black pigment?
Would you like a color wheel that will let you mix any local colors shadow color?
Including the reds and yellows of peaches in any lighting situation.
Don

cobalt fingers
09-30-2002, 10:22 AM
I too have trouble reading yellows. Yellows are the toughest color of roses for me and lemons are far harder (fro me) than apples due merely to the darn yellow.

I really push myself and will use 2 tube yellows at least for say, lemons, a cad and a (green-yellow). I paint the yellow stuff close and then get the colors next to the yellows right on. Then I go back to the yellows and adjust them,

Everyone has some colors that are easier than others to see and "get"-forebear and overcome the challenge

cobalt fingers
09-30-2002, 10:26 AM
Also, I'd paint from life and benefit from all that information.

cobalt fingers
09-30-2002, 10:31 AM
one last thing, peaches are really tough for everyone. To capture that soft fuzy look your shadows will be soft edged and there are no highlights on the bright side. Every one I paint takes more than 4 or 5 hours and I will almost always paint on them two sessions...get close,let them dry and paint a second time...first time thin -then more pigment and closer colors the second. maybe 3 or 4 attempts- whatever it takes.

harriet
09-30-2002, 07:50 PM
Don,

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I checked out the color wheel from your link. I am really pretty new to all of this though and I'm not exactly sure how to go about using this in practical application. I WILL spend more time studying it however, to see if I can figure out just how this works.

harriet:cool:

harriet
09-30-2002, 08:14 PM
Tim,

I'm sure you have heard this before....but, I am truly in awe of your talent. If you had any trouble with those bananas, trust me,,,no one knew it until you said so. lol

That's a great suggestion-- to do them in several sessions. It seems that I work them and work them until the paint is thick and the life has been brushed right out of them. I will try to walk away before that happens. And also, using 2 tube colors may help. I was using only cad yellow pale and mixing other colors into that.

I have found that I do better work from life than from reference photos, so I try to do so whenever possible. Besides, setting up and fussing over everything is just a whole lot more fun than looking at reference photos! Maybe I'm just easily amused.:rolleyes:

Thank you for your help! It's very much appreciated.

harriet:cool:

donjusko
10-01-2002, 01:03 AM
Hi Harriet,
This is a post to another member but it applies here also.

Thanks for the complement, different brands do use different pigments to make the same named pigment.
This page shows the tests I made in choosing the right brands to mix complementary colors into neutral dark colors.
A neutral color dark can be tinted to a neutral gray. Then pushed either warm or cool with one of the two colors.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/mypigments.htm
For a list of the Pigment Numbers go here. These numbers you can match to any brand.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/colorwheel.htm

You mentioned magenta, the primary.
Of all the magenta pigments I have tested only one was using PR:122. Danial Smith.
In oils he calls it Quinacradone Magenta, in acrylic he calls it Acra Violet.
The main thing is they are both PR:122
The Pigment number is to only constant among manufactures.
PR:122 is the only pigment that mixed with Thalo Green to make a neutral dark. Rembrandt Rose wouldn't do it.

Let's take the yellow banana.
Yellow will darken to brown, brown and ultramarine blue mix to the neutral. This is the combination you would mix together for the shadow of a ripe banana. Not black, which would turn green.
For a ripe tomato you would mix Cadmium red with it's opposite color, Thalo blue. The truest color cyan I found was Thalo Blue made by Grumbacher. Here is a problem. PB:15, Thalo Blue can be made anywhere between the blue side to the green side. Which brand color do you want. W/N is to the red/blue side, not very good for skies.
Don

MikeN
10-02-2002, 12:07 AM
Excellent banannas Cobalt,

I think this is my favorite of all your paintings. Nice rhythm and eye direction not to mention the difficulty level of painting complex curves. Its good subject matter too, not too serious plus nice and tasty! LOL

Ok, since we are talking yellow, here is my painting titled Banannarama, note I wasnt brave enough to foreshorten them.

donjusko
10-02-2002, 05:03 AM
Great color Mike.
Blue and yellow are complements as far as I'm concerned, they look great togather.
Here's my banana painting to toss ( gently ) into the ring.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Oct-2002/01bananas66422x520.jpg

Here's a page I made for the painting.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/01.htm

doe
10-02-2002, 08:36 AM
Well Harriet, looks like you'll have to paint bananas instead!:confused:

MikeN
10-02-2002, 09:54 AM
Nice job DonJ,


This thread has definitely gone banannas

Mike

harriet
10-02-2002, 06:53 PM
It sure has! But that's just peachy with me.:D

Your bananas are great Don - really vivid. Thanks for the example. You too, Mike. You may not be brave, but it's far better than I've been able to do!

Any one who is interested -- keep the examples coming! The more the better.

Thanks again everyone.

harriet :cool:

cobalt fingers
10-02-2002, 07:14 PM
yellows

harriet
10-06-2002, 06:59 PM
Well I gave yellows another try. Haven't gotten to peach yet but I think this is a small improvement from the one I refuse to post on-line! lol. See what you all think and please be truthful,,,,yet,,,gentle. ;)

5 x 7 in pastel

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2002/yellowapple.jpg

Thanks for looking!

harriet:cool:

donjusko
10-06-2002, 08:51 PM
How's this?

doe
10-07-2002, 08:43 AM
Looking good, but it looks like you might want to add more dimension with some shading. If you can get to a library, there's a book that might help you, it's also available on Amazon.com and that is Helen Van Wyk's Color Recipes 2. She gives an outline on each color, what colors to mix with it to lighten or darken. Unfortunately she doesn't have peaches in there but several other tips on using yellow.

This was for a yellow grapefruit:

She uses Cadmium Yellow Lt. as a base, grays it with Alizarin Crimson and gray (black & white), darken with yellow ochre, or raw sienna without losing the yellow. Add green for a greenish cast on a yellow object and cadmium orange for an orange cast yellow object. The highlight on a yellow object would be a little bit of Alizarin Crimson (yellow's complement) mixed in white.

Another tip she has is to "Paint the cast shadow in a grayed-down hue that is complementary to the object on which it is cast." example: Maple table cast shadow in the complementary color of violet.

Well that's the condensed version.

This is probably more than you asked for!

cobalt fingers
10-07-2002, 09:48 AM
if you'll paint from life, most of the answers will be right before your eyes.

harriet
10-07-2002, 07:32 PM
Donjusko,

Thanks for the suggestions! I can see where I missed the light against dark there. As far as going to the edges,, I did this in my sketchbook, not on canvas so I really didn't worry about that. I should probably try work in my sketchbook as carefully as I would on a canvas though.

Doe,

Thanks for the info! I don't have access to that book at our library. Only her book about portraits. Neither of the color recipe books are there unfortunately. But I will copy this info into my notebook. Thanks!

Thank you again Cobalt Fingers and Everyone for your replies. I really appreciate all your help.

harriet

donjusko
10-08-2002, 03:32 AM
Hi Harriet,
If you are working in a sketch book, draw in the borders first.
i don't agree with Helen Wyk. The way she mixes paint with black pigment or her color wheel with yellow being opposite alizerin crimson. IMO
Don

cobalt fingers
10-23-2002, 09:00 PM
here come dah fuz

donjusko
10-24-2002, 04:27 AM
I like to make my blacks with color. In fact I don't like black period. But that's just an opinion. Your picture look excellent, just as Rembrandt was great with brown.

http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/corvette.htg/corvette400wide.jpg

http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/corvette.htm

harriet
10-24-2002, 07:12 PM
juicy and beautiful! great example..... keep 'um comin' if you got 'um all!

MikeN
10-27-2002, 01:59 AM
Hello Harriet,

I played around with your image a bit hope you dont mind.

I think your major concern should be value. Try and think of the volume of the apple. As the planes change the values and colors change.

I doubt the bottom of the apple would glow soo much if it were sitting on such a dark plane. Ive darkened it abit and tired showing some reflected light from the table.

My photoshope abilities arent that great but I hope you get an idea of what I mean. I may play around with it a bit more.

Mike

MikeN
10-27-2002, 12:52 PM
here is a rough breakdown of the surface of the apple. When you see a value change your eye registers a plane change. Ive put a big blue dot where two planes meet and there values change.

Sometimes it helps to think of the object as a simple polygon that is made up of planes instead of just curves.

oops see the next post
Mike

MikeN
10-27-2002, 12:52 PM
oops

doe
11-09-2002, 10:18 AM
Harriet - I just got a new scanner and couldn't help myself, just had to add my two bannanas worth:

donjusko
11-10-2002, 04:37 PM
Nice going Mike and Doe, Seeing planes on a circle is tough, but you did it well.
I painted some new bananas last week. Bananas show the planes Mike is talking about,
these bananas are hanging in a lychee tree.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2002/bananainlycheetree6sm.jpg

Here is the painting's progression page.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/kulabananalycheetree.htm

donjusko
11-10-2002, 04:51 PM
Well this is banana season as Doe knows.
Yellow crystals and Bananas both darken wiith brown; yellow, yellow oxide, burnt and raw umber. Brown is dark yellow and the opposite of yellow is ultramarine blue. Brown and ultramarine blue mix to make a dark neutral.
Here is a page showing the progression of this painting.
http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/kulabananahat.htm
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2002/kulabananahatsm.jpg

doe
11-11-2002, 06:58 AM
Big bunch of bananas donjusko! I only have a dwarf banana tree that I've been working on, painting that is, and enjoy painting the ripe banana more than the green ones, but love the purple flower that I see included before the bunch was put in the tree.

Nice work on both bunches!

donjusko
11-11-2002, 01:49 PM
Thanks Doe,
I may be off line for awhile after this morning. I'm leaving Lahaina and hitting the painting road.
Later,
Don