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Trikist
01-26-2010, 06:40 PM
Two of my favorite art books are by Moira Huntly: "The Artist's Drawing Book" and "Painting in Mixed Media". I was most impressed that her work could range from a carefully rendered drawing/painting of the British Parliament Building to a loose collections of colored boxes that make a convincing fishing village.

When I look her up on-line today, I see art galleries of her work that tends away from object-oriented paintings and it seems to me that she is drifting towards abstraction. A lot of other painters seem to drift towards abstraction: Matisse's cut outs, Monet's Lily Pads, Degas's smears of tutus etc.

So how about people here? Anyone here getting more abstract in your work?

Regards, Gary

Paula Ford
01-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Nope, not me. I hope I'm getting a bit looser, but would like to obtain painterly realism in my work.

Kathryn Wilson
01-26-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm raising my hand - my landscapes are getting more abstract, although not out of the realm of reality - simpler shapes, less is more.

I, for one, would love to see more abstracts in this forum.

DAK723
01-26-2010, 11:23 PM
After 30 plus years as an artist, I am not getting any more abstract. I don't think I have changed much, in that regard. I aim for painterly realism, too! Perhaps when I master that :lol: :lol:, then I will get more abstract. In other words, not likely!

Don

Colorix
01-27-2010, 06:26 AM
I totally lack the abstract gene in my DNA, abstract painting means nothing to me, usually, and I've tried to appreciate it, but ended up being indifferent. However, I'm thinking more of the abstract shapes of paintings, regarding light and dark.

Charlie

Studio-1-F
01-27-2010, 10:01 AM
So how about people here? Anyone here getting more abstract in your work? Regards, Gary
Funny you should mention this! I signed up for an 'Abstract Representation' class (http://www.glenechopark.org/class/classsectIndex.aspx?ctlgID=34&numberID=10-1-02-034-01&typeID=2&class=11652), which started last week! I am (a) keeping an open mind, and (b) posting reports and my pieces (such as they shall be) on my blog. There are about a dozen in the class and I think I will be the only one using pastels. (The instructor began in pastels, so he's delighted that I'll be using mine.)

In any event, am not even sure yet of the definition of "abstraction" in art. I suspect that it's more of a continuum than a definite or distinct genre. Maybe it's simply letting the picture (or the artist) dictate the outcome instead of the letting the subject dictate the outcome. I don't know yet.

Not that you can learn any of this stuff from books, but two that are interesting are:
-- Painting Abstracts Ideas, Projects and Techniques by Rolina van Vliet (2009) (http://books.google.com/books?id=EAADMAAACAAJ&dq=Painting+Abstracts&cd=1)
-- Abstract Painting: Concepts and Techniques, by Vicky Perry (2005) (http://books.google.com/books?id=a_vrAAAACAAJ&dq=Abstract+Painting:+Concepts+and+Techniques&cd=1)

One abstract pastelist that I enjoy is Deborah Stewart (http://www.deboralstewart.com/). Another is Loriann Signori (http://loriannsignori.blogspot.com/). She's great! And of course Mark Leach (http://picasaweb.google.com/bmaleach/MarkLeachAllArtwork#).

Anyway, I am curious and very interested in how this class unfolds. I suspect MOMA will be contacting me shortly . . . . :smug:

Jan

Donna T
01-27-2010, 10:06 AM
I love the fact that abstract parts of a painting can mean different things to me depending on my mood or just a different way that I view them. I would really like to be able to paint on the edge of abstraction and let the viewer provide their own story but I somehow feel obligated to make things look real. Did the artists you mentioned just get bored with the same painting style over the years or did they somehow figure out that they were more able to express themselves when they weren't bound to accurately depict the subjects they chose to paint?

Studio-1-F
01-27-2010, 10:16 AM
Donna, I can't speak for them (obviously) but I suspect the later. Here is a paragraph from Mark Leach's page (http://www.markleach.net/):

The landscape is still my inspiration, but I am not trying to represent it, nor necessarily capture a sense of place. I am trying to explore how it has affected me: share the landscape that is inside me. Each painting is a recollection. To that end, I rarely do preliminary studies, and hardly ever work on site. This I now realise just confuses my feelings: I literally cannot see the wood for the trees. What I try to do is make use of my memory. I want the finished paintings to be like a memory, where the mind, over time, has sieved out all extraneous detail and left only the relevant.

Jan

saramathewson
01-27-2010, 10:17 AM
I have thought about it more and more. I would love to be able to paint the landscape in a more abstract way. I really want to get Ann Templetons book/DVD on this. Plus would also love Mark Leach's book on Raw color. He is the one who wrote that right? Geez i would be so embarrassed iof I got that one wrong:P

Sara

Trikist
01-27-2010, 10:18 AM
For me objectivity->abstraction is a range. Monet's haystacks are still recognizable as haystacks but these paintings are also about abstract concepts like luminosity, form, color unity, etc. For me they tend towards the abstract and I really enjoy them.

I study art because I like to understand what the painter was/is trying to do. I paint my poor works to appreciate the works of others. (This board is great to view the works of others and try to read the intentions in their works.) I think to understand better I will have to become more abstract. I hope that I succeed.

Edit:

While I was putting in my bit, Studio 1-F was writing:

"Maybe it's simply letting the picture (or the artist) dictate the outcome instead of the letting the subject dictate the outcome."

I like that.

Regards, Gary

Donna T
01-27-2010, 10:31 AM
Gary, I agree; once we figure out why we are attracted to abstract paintings, or abstract concepts, we can start taking baby steps in that direction in our own work.

Jan, I just read that paragraph in Mark Leach's book yesterday! Hopefully if I keep reading it over and over it will sink in and really affect what I want to accomplish. I hope the class you're taking is a good one!

Studio-1-F
01-27-2010, 11:23 AM
I hope the class you're taking is a good one!
I am hopeful. The instructor knows his stuff. Why don't you come on down and take it with me? The class definitely needs another pastelist!! :heart:

Jan

DAK723
01-27-2010, 02:13 PM
Without trying to get to deep, every painting is an abstraction of reality to a certain degree. Aside from photo-realism, I guess, which is trying to recreate every "pixel" as it appears, artist's are always simplifying, or abstracting part from the whole. To a certain extent, deciding how much to abstract is always a question, but a work can be representational and have a wide range of "abstractness". It is when it no longer becomes representational that I get lost and I don' see myself going beyond that point in my own work.

Don

Ruthie57
01-27-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't profess to understand abstract work. Some appeals to me because of the colours, pattern and/or composition but I always have a "say what?" attitude to it. Perhaps I'm just not ready to make up the story when I look at someone elses art and I can't think that I will ever lean towards it.
I have progressed though to appreciate that there is skill and feeling in abstract art, even if I don't comprehend it. I used to think it was done by artists who simply could not produce representational work. I am wiser now!

Kathryn Wilson
01-27-2010, 05:05 PM
I'm raising my hand - my landscapes are getting more abstract, although not out of the realm of reality - simpler shapes, less is more.

I, for one, would love to see more abstracts in this forum.

Here's a thread that I started last year:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570154&page=2

I really like Anne Templeton's DVD - and Mark Leach's book is "Raw Color".

Another artist you might look at is:

Wolf Kahn

Studio-1-F
01-27-2010, 05:33 PM
Is this (http://www.anntempleton.com/artwork_new.htm) the Ann Templeton you're talking about, Kathryn, that is doing abstract art? Or is there another Ann Templeton?

Wolf Kahn's website is here (http://www.wolfkahn.com/pastels/pastels.html).

Jan

westcoast_Mike
01-27-2010, 05:38 PM
This is an interesting thread. My earliest exposure to fine art on an intimate level was Japanese woodblocks. Specifically of the Sosaku Hanga school. An Uncle had one of the finest collections outside of Japan that I viewed regularly when I was young and we went to visit (unfortunately lost in a firestorm that swept through the Berkley hills about 20 years ago). As such, I enjoy Wolf Kahn or some of Mark Leach’s work. I see a lot of similarities in the use of color and shape. Mark’s “Winter in Provence II” is a good example. I like to simplify shapes or push color to in parts of my work convey nature or objects. I don’t like to go so far as to make the viewer interpret my work. I’ll also never give up working outdoors as Nature is my Muse. Abstract is a broad term in art. Within certain limitations, yes I enjoy and employ it.

Studio-1-F
01-27-2010, 06:25 PM
This is an interesting thread. My earliest exposure to fine art on an intimate level was Japanese woodblocks. Specifically of the Sosaku Hanga school.
Sôsaku Hanga (http://www.viewingjapaneseprints.net/texts/sosakutexts/sosakuhanga_intro.html) <-------- Nice! A shame your uncle's collection was lost. Thanks for posting. Interesting stuff!

More to look at: Casey Klahn's abstracts are posted here. (http://thecolorist.blogspot.com/search/label/My%20Abstracts)

Jan

Kathryn Wilson
01-27-2010, 07:01 PM
Is this (http://www.anntempleton.com/artwork_new.htm) the Ann Templeton you're talking about, Kathryn, that is doing abstract art? Or is there another Ann Templeton?

YES


Wolf Kahn's website
is here (http://www.wolfkahn.com/pastels/pastels.html).

Jan

There is a difference in an abstract - and abstracting the landscape. You can see in Ann's work that her landscapes still look like landscapes, but she pares down the extraneous shapes and objects so that she is "subtracting" from what she is seeing. I didn't understand that difference for quite a while until I saw her DVD.

Potoma
01-27-2010, 09:14 PM
I am trying to tend toward geometry, if not abstraction exactly, in painting.

In order to fill my gallery's new suggested quota, I decided to take up collage/mixed media. We're going from three every other month to four a month and I just want to keep up somehow! These pieces are fairly abstract, but I find myself using Carlson's landscape principals in order to give them depth. Of course, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

Eleonora Manapova
01-28-2010, 04:10 AM
I wouldn't say I love abstract artworks, some concepts are too complicated :-)
I admire people's huge patience with depicting all details, but when I'm trying to do it - wild horses of imagination are taking me away and can't help myself :-)

Studio-1-F
01-28-2010, 09:23 AM
These pieces are fairly abstract, but I find myself using Carlson's landscape principals in order to give them depth.
This sounds neat!!! :thumbsup: Can I/we see some examples, please? And don't say I have to drive down to Workhouse to see them. :rolleyes: Though one of these days I really ought to get down there and check the place out . . .

Jan

Potoma
01-28-2010, 11:15 AM
This sounds neat!!! :thumbsup: Can I/we see some examples, please? And don't say I have to drive down to Workhouse to see them. :rolleyes: Though one of these days I really ought to get down there and check the place out . . .

Jan

Okay, I'll save you some gas money, but you're not off the hook entirely!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2010/59298-For_Kiss_Tic_No_6.400x600.jpg

This is "For A Kiss Anytime, Ticket No. 6" and it's intended for Valentine's Day - month actually, considering how long it will hang. Forgive the glare - I took this last night inside.

First off, I was conscious of Harley Brown's page of balance between lights and darks and I was seeking 80-90% to 20-10%. There should be lots more of one or the other. For this, I chose dark (relatively) with the teal. There's also a transparent brown over the top of it. (The colors I'm using are these airbrush paints I happened on with Pearl going out of business. Same with the papers.) I did leave most of one ticket highlighted (there are ticket and lipstick stamps on the paper in brown before any paint was applied), but the others aren't visible. That's one thing about collage and mixed media I've emphasized anew that varies some than my more direct painting method - you really have to let it go for the sake of layers and depth. There are no prima donna areas which steer the rest - those should always be candidates for covering up.

All of this is done on a watercolor block and this one is 7x11.

Abstracts should have composition, should lead the eye in, should have significant value shifts. For this, because I'd established the top as lighter and airier, I put heavier and larger rings at the bottom, medium in the middle, and light at the top. Leading the eye in, I used smaller to larger round paper pieces top to bottom, but also in a swirl. Other round pieces are half off the page and some are half hidden or have some lost and found edges. (That's some Richard McKinley "mystery" going on.)

Need to head out. If I remember more stuff, I'll be back.

Potoma
01-28-2010, 08:56 PM
Honest, it's just the picture that's bad!

Kathryn Wilson
01-28-2010, 10:58 PM
Bonnie - that is a cool abstract with very contemporary colors - it almost looks like fabric. Very nice!

Donna T
01-29-2010, 10:30 AM
I really like the batik look of this, Bonnie! Very interesting piece!

In case any of you haven't already seen the amazing work of WC's own jmax (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604959) over in the Landscape forum, please check out his ability to abstract the landscape. He is somehow able to depict just enough reality while enhancing the abstract feel, always with a sense of mystery or magic. There are lots of examples of his work on his website too.

westcoast_Mike
01-29-2010, 10:45 AM
Thanks for bringing him up Donna. I've been a big fan of what he is putting up for to enjoy for some time.

Potoma
01-29-2010, 05:22 PM
Thanks, Kathryn and Donna. All the rest are sweet and romantic, but I did a big wave today. This stuff is fun.

Studio-1-F
01-29-2010, 06:24 PM
Bonnie! Excellent! Very nice. Very well-executed. Bravo! :thumbsup: There are no prima donna areas which steer the rest - those should always be candidates for covering up.
This is one of the key points in the Abstract Representation class that I'm into at Glen Echo. The instructor emphasizes this very strongly. That there ought NOT to be any one part or area that becomes "precious". Again, as with all other aspects of this, I am a bit in the fog on what this means, exactly. Although I think (not sure -- but I think) that the moment the whole piece becomes "precious" that's when it's done. When it all snaps into place and there is not one more jot or tittle (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/not+a+jot+or+tittle?qsrc=2446) that you can add that will make it better. (Difficult lesson to learn for one who routinely erased holes right through the paper on projects in design school . . . constantly changing and adjusting and tweaking and ARRGGGGGHHH . . . :rolleyes: -- wait, wait! -- it's not "done"!)

Anyway, thanks for posting. I still need to get down there to see you though.

Jan

Studio-1-F
01-29-2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks for bringing him up Donna. I've been a big fan of what he is putting up for to enjoy for some time.
John McNeeley is the BEST! (http://web.me.com/johnmcnelley/site/Welcome.html)Thank you for recommending him. I think his stuff is just great too and if he lived anywhere nearby I'd have a wall full of his paintings. Outstanding colorist, in my opinion.

And such a jolly guy!

Jan

Potoma
01-29-2010, 07:50 PM
Forgot to say I looked at his site, too. So much moodiness in his stuff. I like the WC post with a bit of his method.

Jan, when to stop isn't a problem to me. I can gauge when to quit so I don't ruin it pretty well! Then I fall back on mood or that "fuzzy plein air feel" to raise my confidence that it is actually finished. Am doing the same with collages. Suddenly it feels right.

Come down anytime. Second Saturdays 6-9p are big nights with all the galleries open.

mihaela
02-01-2010, 03:25 AM
I'm so happy to find this thread! I like abstractionism, and after reading Perry's book, am amazed at the diversity of styles and messeges conveyed beyond representation. I admire Kandinsky's work, his beautiful lines, great composition and colour, especially that he started with a more representational style. For me realism is a transitional phase, the beginning of a search for a presonal style. I've admired surrealism for some time now, yet am currently captured by Impressionism, so I'm not sure whre I'm heading yet. Meanwhile, I enjoy learning everything I can about realism. I don't think an artist can create valuable art without mastering the basics first and understanding art history. I also think that there are cycles in art, just like in nature. We started with cave drawings, culminated with the Renaissance masters, then gradually came to an intentionally 'childlike' art of purer state with cubism, abstractionism. After some perceived minimalism as sterile, now there are a lot of artists finding their passion in realism, therefore the cycle is reiterated. Ok, this sound already like an expose on art:), its' just that I'm so excited to share my views with people that have similar interests.

Bonnie, I like your abstraction. I read it not only as patters, but also as a stylized forrest, with the verticals beying the trunks and the circles the leaves.

Kathryn, I looked at your abstract landscapes and I like the vibrancy of your colours. You seem to have beautifully merged fauvism with Cezanne, it looks beautiful!

rankamateur1
02-01-2010, 09:16 AM
I love John McNeeley's work - thanks for pointing him out as I had not seen his work before. It may be my imagination, but much of his acrylic work almost looks like pastel, the way he applies the color.

Thanks,
Luana

Studio-1-F
02-01-2010, 10:02 AM
I also think that there are cycles in art, just like in nature. We started with cave drawings, culminated with the Renaissance masters, then gradually came to an intentionally 'childlike' art of purer state with cubism, abstractionism. After some perceived minimalism as sterile, now there are a lot of artists finding their passion in realism, therefore the cycle is reiterated.
This is an interesting "take" on the sweep of the history of art. I also have thought of the arc of change as tending toward more and more abstraction as the centuries go by, in a straight line. I asked my instructor in the 'Abstract Representation' class why abstraction wasn't "discovered" or "invented" until recently. His answer was interesting. He said he thought of the arc of art not as a steadily rising straight line from realism to abstraction, but rather as an oscillation, just as you mentioned, back and forth between abstraction and realism.

In a VERY simplistic way (and this is a clumsy paraphrase of what he said [Jordan! I apologize!] -- as well as being hopelessly Western in scope): Primitive art (cave drawings) starting out very abstract, very conceptual. Then classical Roman and Greek being very realistic. Next on to the spiritual abstraction of medieval art. On to a sort of hyper-realism in the Renaissance and Northern European art. Then the abstraction of Mannerism/Baroque/Roccoco. Then the naturalism/realism of Romantic art. Then Impressionism. And so on and so forth. With the oscillations getting quicker and more jumbled as we get into the 20th century. (See "Art Periods" on wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_periods).)

Where all this goes or what it all means for each of us individually, I have no idea. One thing it does seem to mean is that today there is no mandated "style" to which any artist must adhere in order to achieve commercial success. At least, so far as I know, not being an insider in the "serious art world".

All this choice may be daunting at times.

Jan

Potoma
02-01-2010, 12:27 PM
Thanks very much, Mihaela. Also, thanks for bring up art history. For me, the cycles are pendulum swinging. Most things are in reaction (for or against) something else.

Another reason, Jan, that abstraction wasn't even allowed was the influence of religion. Pretty much prior to the topics of the Dutch genre paintings (family scenes, street/bar scenes, big sky landscapes), the only subjects anyone could paint for 1500 years was iconography or perhaps Classics. I sure do appreciate those rebels!

Studio-1-F
02-01-2010, 01:21 PM
Another reason, Jan, that abstraction wasn't even allowed was the influence of religion. Pretty much prior to the topics of the Dutch genre paintings (family scenes, street/bar scenes, big sky landscapes), the only subjects anyone could paint for 1500 years was iconography or perhaps Classics. I sure do appreciate those rebels!
The point that Jordan was making about oscillation was that medieval art, under the influence of religion, was abstract. Their subjects were icons or paragons and idealistic representations. You nailed it: iconography. They were not interested in realistic depictions of actual people or landscapes or objects. So in that era, dominated by "religion" and religious paintings (and when nearly no one could read, so that art was an important teaching tool), artists were actually producing abstract art.

Interesting way to think about it all: oscillation.

Anyway. Whatever. Below is a timely 'Pepper and Salt' cartoon from the Journal.

Jan

+++++++++++++

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Feb-2010/12504-pepper+salt_web.jpg

mihaela
02-01-2010, 11:37 PM
Where all this goes or what it all means for each of us individually, I have no idea. One thing it does seem to mean is that today there is no mandated "style" to which any artist must adhere in order to achieve commercial success. At least, so far as I know, not being an insider in the "serious art world".

All this choice may be daunting at times.




I agree, in these postmodern times realism is contemporary with abstractionism, impressionism etc, coexisting together or at times even being intermingled. Because of the fact that there is so much variety, it's difficult for the artist to choose and find a true style. Also, commercial does not always equal value. It seems nowadays that paintings have turned into mere adornments that have 'to go' with the couch or the colour of the pillows (I'm refering to some abstract works here), simple accessories. And because of this eclecticism, polarization and diversity it's difficult to separate true art from mediocre one. Apart from this negative, I think it's great that virtual galleries are created, the public has access to them, offering an alternative to the museum, now not the only institution dictating what valuable art is.

Bonnie, I like the image of the pendulum swinging to illustrate the reactions in art. And I think it's the same in all cultural domains; in literature for instance. We seem to exhaust subjects to the point of adversity, then quickly embrace its negation, only to deny it when it has exhausted itself. I think it's a natural reaction, reflecting first of all changes of mentality.

About the icons, since I grew up with them (I'm Orthodox, Eastern Church), they are not so much an art object, as a spiritual representation. The elongated figures, expressive yet simply rendered are rather objects of cult than art for art's sake. The iconoclasts believed that they should be removed since divinity escapes representation, so this was again the reaction mentioned above, only this time in a religious setting.

I love the cartoon:). Coincidentally, my husband read to me today a paragraph from Don Quijote. Where are the windmills? :)

sketchZ1ol
02-06-2010, 03:17 AM
hello. interesting train of thought here. different means and motives for depicting images and ideas over the course of time, and how/why certain artists are held out as exemplary, proficient, and/or influentiial within a given time period or genre.
Then there is the matter of instruction/conveyance of method and meaning from one generation to the next, with the invention of the printing press being an arguable pivot point for mass communication/accessibilty for those who could read and write.
Also, the increasing influence of the merchant class and related banking interests offered another source of patronage (money). The breakaway from the Roman Catholic church by England and central Europe added to the weakening of absolute control/dictation of thought, behavior, and financial matters by the RC Church.
With the 20th century, perhaps the most important factor is the development of psychoanalysis as a formal method of describing human inner motives as something completely apart from 'divine inspiration'...
This is as much as i've been able to put together from a series of free lectures by noted artists, illustrators, and critics/curators at the local state college over the past several years. Some, for me, have been especially clear/effective in talking about the hows and whys of their creative process, and how/why they are influenced by other artists, living and past.
Thanks to those who have taken the time to read thru this post. Writing it has helped me to gather and summarize my thoughts :) E

Kathryn Wilson
02-09-2010, 03:49 PM
I was working up a lesson plan for my students showing how to block in colors - so when I got this all blocked in, I thought "hey, this is so abstract, why not show it to the other abstract afficiandos" - no need to comment, but I do love abstracting the landscape this way.

I'll post the actual photo too so you can see what I was working from. A photo Paula is using in the Landscape forum which she found in the RIL -

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2010/14941-abstract2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2010/14941-Barn_-_ril.jpg

Donna T
02-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Nice block-in, Kat - just the basics. It's harder than it looks to ignore all the other stuff in the photo and just see those shapes. Hmmm ... perhaps ignoring things that aren't essential could be a benefit to life in general.

Kathryn Wilson
02-09-2010, 04:36 PM
I'm going to leave it like this until after the lesson on Friday, then I'll play with it a bit, but I'm liking the simplicity -

forgot to say, this is on black colorfix paper

getting snow yet? it pouring cats 'n dogs here

sketchZ1ol
02-09-2010, 07:16 PM
hello. Kat, good to see an image presented, tho there are issues with 'perspective'... lol.
the paintings of the past century are a big eggbeater to the brain, and i make no claim to be able to take it all in...but i was once told by a very cerebral/knowledgable painter that "you don't know what you're doing".
i did nothing for many years, and one day, took some old work to a lecture/critique, and the guy said; this is what i see/how it connects to other artists, and that's when i realized the first guy was an elitist sob.
point is, painting is about painting, craft and concept: the abstract is what anyone has yet/wants to do...and the paintings along the way...
fwiw :) E

Kathryn Wilson
02-09-2010, 07:43 PM
yeah, yeah, yeah .... who said there has to be perspective in abstraction ,..,. that being said, it's already been corrected

this was not meant to be a realistic painting, just an example of how color and shapes can be abstracted from the landscape

making sure you're paying attention, Ed

Studio-1-F
02-09-2010, 08:52 PM
...but i was once told by a very cerebral/knowledgable painter that "you don't know what you're doing". . . E
And you believed him??! Phooey.

Jan

sketchZ1ol
02-10-2010, 07:48 PM
hello. hi Jan - well, the first guy was right, in a blunt way. He'd been there: NYC art scene, 40's,50's,60's, perceptive/articulate/recognized/respected. I didn't know squat.
The second guy was Al Loving. Also knowledgeable,respected,articulate ( look him up ) In our brief conversation, he showed me where to start looking in order to learn about art history and art concepts, based on how he saw/read my work, and in so doing, unravel the 'mystique' . (still working at it...happily) A very fortunate day.
A crude analogy might be that the first guy told me that there was such a thing as fishing. Al taught me how.
So IMHO, perspective and abstract are symbiotic, in that there is an assembly of distinct and separate objects of relative scale which, when seen together, convey a sense of depth...
hi Kathryn - trying my best to pay attention......i liked your illustration!
:D :cool: Ed