View Full Version : Good Start - Gone Bad =(

01-24-2010, 07:40 PM
I wanted to share this with you in hopes that someone can give me some suggestions on how to salvage what was once a good start to a beautiful rose painting.

I was trying to use the underglaze/layering technique. While I admit I have little experience, I gave this an honest go. The technique has worked for me in the past. For some reason when I started in on the color .... it went south.

01-24-2010, 07:44 PM
Hmmmmm, I assume you intended to post a pic. I'll check back later.

In the meantime, welcome to our little corner of WC! :wave:

01-24-2010, 07:47 PM
For some reason my photos are not showing. Hmm

any suggestions?

Lady Carol
01-24-2010, 09:01 PM
make sure you do not have any funky symbols in the title and that it is under 800kb in size.

01-24-2010, 10:43 PM
One more timehttp://picasaweb.google.com/TropicalDiva/PinkRoseWIP#

OK I tried for longer than I care to admit ... dont know what it is but here is a link to the photos instead.

01-24-2010, 11:18 PM
When you started to apply color, you lost your lights. And when you tried to regain them....you lost your darks.

When I start as you did, I find it helpful to "posterize" (I use Paint Shop Pro) the ref pic...and follow that for the first few layers.

The dead layer gives you the lights & darks. In your first colored pic it shows that you "lost" those lights & darks by having a high concentration of color in the areas that should be light (making them more dark).

If you were to "greyscale" that first color photo, of the painting, I think you would see what I mean. The next two color pics show you losing the "darks" even more...instead of restoring the contrast that you need.

01-24-2010, 11:24 PM
I think my problem came in my color mixing. the first color I wasnt thrilled with but for the dark I used it undiluted and then added white to get the different levels. The second time I tried, I used a different pink and then added blue. I wasn't happy with that eiter.

01-24-2010, 11:24 PM
I think my problem came in my color mixing. the first color I wasnt thrilled with but for the dark I used it undiluted and then added white to get the different levels. The second time I tried, I used a different pink and then added blue. I wasn't happy with that either.

01-25-2010, 09:59 AM
Seems to me your adding of the white is the issue. To use a glaze, try using some clear gel medium or glazing medium to thin the color to an acceptable level. Going back in with white for highlights only should make a difference. Adding darks in the same manner should help also. Just keep layering with very transparent layers of color.

Just a thought.

01-31-2010, 10:17 PM
Hopefully third time is a charm. I am determind to not give up on this one. This was actually started for my sister who is suffering from breast cancer (she loves roses). I figure if she isn't givine up either am I. This start isn't nearly as nice as my first one but here it is.


02-01-2010, 09:22 AM
Starting to look very dimensional. Hang in there, keep at it.

Bob Rooney
02-01-2010, 05:48 PM
The dead layer looked good, but I think you must have glazed over your dead layer with opaque pigments, causing you to overpower and cover your darks. I believe that if you had glazed with transparent colors like Alizarin Crimson or Napthol it would have worked much better, I always stay with transparent colors when glazing the dead layer and it seems to work. I also believe Howard is right about adding white in the mix being a problem. That probably made the color opaque.

Lady Carol
02-01-2010, 05:52 PM
What Bob said is fairly accurate. You definitely need to work with transparent colours

02-01-2010, 11:47 PM

chiaro scura
light vs dark

My opinion only:
People misunderstand glaze painting and the underpainting. They think that they make a greyscale underpainting and build transparent glazes ontop. This is only subtly true and not thoroughly the case.

First, the underpainting doesn't go to the whitest whight and it doesnt go to the darkest dark. The underpainting captures the composition but is more of a place holder for whats to come and its execution should be done from a "bland" standpoint. choose a burnt umber for example and add lighten it into 2 mixtures. One mixture is 1/4 white and the other is 3/4 white. paint these into the darkest parts and lightest parts respectively.

Now, after defining your palete for the underpainting, go about painting the rest of the underpainting limiting the darkest and lightest by those tones and scaling your midtones within those two extremes. This result will be the platform/underpainting for working out the rest of the painting.

A good underpainting will relieve the artist of thinking too much about where and how things are in the composition. Try to work it all out in the underpainting.

This underpainting is considered LEAN in the "lean to fat" painting principle. You should only be using water with your paints

Now the real work begins. choosing what is a good local color.

What is a local color. It's the middle truth between a color in bright light and in darkness. the painting is ready for local colors to be painted in with occasional development of shadow and light. This is done with fairly opaque execution with maybe a little water and or a little medium. This is the middle of the lean to fat premise and you are doing the coarse rendering of the total elements of your painting.

You haven't glazed anything yet.

Now once you worked out your local color and the strongest darks and lights, you are now getting into the truth of Chiaro Scura.

You are going into a process of glazing in, gradualy, stronger amounts of medium. You will be increasing medium ratio PARTICULARLY in the darks and shadows. BUT lights will be woven in to medium and will mostly be contrasting against the transparent shadows. YOU ARE CONTRASTING TRANSPARENCY VS OPAQUE PAINT. This balance is the joy of working in glaze.

The final stages are smooth aplications of glaze to deepen shadows. Make clear applications of glaze to bury opaques in. And a number of choices are made quite subjectively to highlight and finesse the painting.


02-02-2010, 04:12 AM
I find that when colorizing mine, I have to use very thin layers of color. If you use a mixture of white, the white gives everything a 'chalky' look and no longer fits into the glazed look.

02-04-2010, 02:19 PM
Thank you all for your input. Ribeyedsmile thanks for your in depth answer. It reallly helped me to wrap my brain around it. I've started over yet again.. I think this is #5.

Still having issues uploading pictures ( I have made the files smaller, named them clearly, I upload them as instructed here but they are not showing up for some reason.)

02-22-2010, 07:56 PM

OK I'm ALMOST done with this puppy! I have to refine the background and a couple of tweaks but I wanted to get input before I signed, sealed and deliver to my sister.

ALL comments appreciated.....


03-23-2010, 11:29 AM
I didn't get the best picture bbut my sister took a pic of this so I thought I'd post the final oucome.


03-23-2010, 11:30 AM
I forgot to mention that after consulting my colorwheel I decided to change the background to green.

03-23-2010, 03:26 PM
What a nice gift for your sister! I'm so glad you decided to "hang in there".

03-23-2010, 11:03 PM
Very nice work. You did the right thing... sticking with it and pushing through the probelms. It is a beautiful piece that your sister will treasure for years!

M Douglas
03-24-2010, 12:35 AM
It looks lovely Karen, it's a beautiful gift for your sister.


03-24-2010, 01:18 PM
Beautiful finish!