Basics 101: Class 6 - Drawing Conical Objects

[JayD]

Basic 101: Class 6

Drawing Conical Objects

What can you say about a cone. It’s a cylinder gone bad. It’s a tunnel that leads to a disappointing ending. It holds ice cream and stops traffic. It is simply hard to picture cones—they are, after all, so “blendy”

Here is what Merriam Webster says:

Main Entry: 1cone
Pronunciation: 'kOn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin conus, from Greek kOnos
1 a : a solid generated by rotating a right triangle about one of its legs -- called also right circular cone b : a solid bounded by a circular or other closed plane base and the surface formed by line segments joining every point of the boundary of the base to a common vertex -- see VOLUME table c : a surface traced by a moving straight line passing through a fixed vertex

De Reyna says that a cone is a solid mass that tapers uniformly from a circular base to a fixed point.

Look for this form first in the object that you wish to attempt. It might be small, it might be big—it will not be shaped like a pig.

‘You will need the following materials.

1. Two lines of any length

2. An ellipses

Demonstration:

Step 1: Begin by drawing your center line.

Step 2: Next draw a horizontal line at the top that crosses perpendicular to the center line

Step 3: Now draw lines from the ends of the horizontal line so that they meet in a single point at the bottom of the center line.

Step 4: Finally at the top, draw an ellipsis connecting the two edges




Ok, you are ALL now experts and have conquered the devious cone. Now let’s do an Ice Cream Cone—the CLASSIC cone:

Step 1: Draw your cone like you did in the first demonstration.

Step 2: Once you have established your cone, start adding the detail. For the ice cream portion at the top, draw a sphere and modify it to look like overflowing ice cream.

Step 3: Finally, add the ridges that surround the cone.

Exercises:

1. Look around your world—both inside and outside for signs of “conage”. Remember that cones will be obvious but sometime you have to look inside—see if you can locate the cone—draw it first THEN build the detail around it.



Here are some pictures for you to try. Feel free to post any other examples. Have fun and happy drawing!

[JayD]

Here are the rest:

Note from the Editor: This thread continues with the recent posts. The older posts can be found in this closed thread:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233216

[wedhatted]

It's been a while since I've had a chance to actually sit down and draw. Here are my offerings for lesson 6.

Thanks
Diane
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jun-2009/125661-cone.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jun-2009/125661-bottle.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Diane -
A remark that pops up regularly: ellipses have no points, no dents, and are symmetrical :evil:.
With more varied shading on the cream cone you could suggest the ridges; it looks rather flat now.
The flask is very well done, nice rendering of the lettering :clap:.

[wedhatted]

Thanks Arnould,

I've made some changes, how are these now?

Cheers.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jun-2009/125661-cone.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Diane -
I've made some changes, how are these now?
The ellipse at the top of the (geometric form) cone is still off. The right side is symmetrical on its own, upper vs. lower half. But the left half is not symmetrical on its own, and is not mirroring the right side either. Drawing horizontal and vertical centerlines can help to see it, as well as looking at the drawing in the mirror.

441397

Also, there are still some dents or flat portions in it.
The cream cone is nicely shaded, well done :clap:.

[wedhatted]

Once more with feeling? :)
This time from scratch.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jun-2009/125661-cone1.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Diane -
Yes, much better :clap:.
Circles, ellipses, spheres are forms where irregularities are spotted by everyone, it is important to draw them very carefully.
Move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[wedhatted]

Thanks Arnoud!

[Synserina]

Thought it might be a good idea to go ahead and do all (or at least most) of the classes in some type of normal order. :lol: So, here is my ice cream cone along with some quick sketches of cones in my sketchbook. It IS a bit darker in real life, but of course my scanner changes things a bit. Not much though, so I didn't want to mess with it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jul-2009/187619-cones0001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Charity -
Your ice cone is well done, symmetry is OK :thumbsup::clap:.
About the rough sketches, I like how you drew the two symmetry axes to check. But for a good practice, one should not stop there. It is almost impossible to draw a near perfect ellipse (or circle for that matter). But "everybody" sees immediately when an ellipse is not perfect. That is indeed the reason why we must draw them perfectly :evil:. But it means that also the artist sees after sketching where it is wrong. So without erasing, you can correct with another faint line, and again and again. Leave the previous lines, they are the hints showing you where it is wrong. Then when satisfied, either erase the wrong lines, or trace the correct one to another paper. Of course, in the case of just a sketching practice, leave it :lol:.

[Synserina]

Arnoud-Yeah, my practices looked pretty bad. :lol: I spent a lot longer on the ice cream. I'll practice a few more using lines as guides like you suggested and post them. :)

[Synserina]

Alrighty. I'm close to being tired of elipses again. :lol: I spent hours playing with cones and here are a couple of the pages from that playtime. I think I did better on the elipses this time around than on the previous practices.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jul-2009/187619-cones20001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jul-2009/187619-cones30001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Charity -
Well done :thumbsup:. I think you practiced the geo form enough :lol: Just guard against pointed ends.
Now is the time to draw one or two real objects where you have recognized the cone. You can choose from the photos or find something in your own environment.

Cheers

[Synserina]

Sorry I've not been posting, Arnoud. I've had a house full lately and haven't had time to breathe, much less draw. I'm going to start working on drawing a bit more over the next week, so hopefully, I'll be able to post soon. :)

[arnoud3272]

Charity -
No worries :). Take your time. No "terms" in this classroom.

[Synserina]

One day, I'll learn how to use photoshop. :o Until then, I give crappy pics..but if you can look past that to the actual drawing, I'll be so greatful. :lol: So, I spent a bit on this, and although the shading is horrible in the pic, it's not quite so bad in real life. Here's my flask-thingie. I tried it 3 times, and this is the best one. I'm not happy with the lettering, but I was aiming more for getting the cone right.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jul-2009/187619-flask_resized.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Charity -
Don't worry too much about the letters, it is a subject on its own, and your rendering is not bad at all. Only that OHIO leans in the wrong direction. The outline of the flask is reasonably correct, the neck is too long for the body, but the symmetry is good.
On the other hand, squint your eyes and look long enough at the drawing to allow your brain to see what is there, instead of what you know that should be there. I see at once a heavy concrete foot for a bridge pillar or so. The suggestion of a round object is missing. There are 2 main reasons:
1. the bottom ellipse is too shallow, you drew it almost straight.
2. shading; on the flask itself I see almost only black, white and 1 mid tone. You need to render many smooth transitions. Sharp changes suggest a square form.
Look at the shadow on the wall, it is clear that the main light comes from the front. You missed most of the highlight that should be the result of that: area 1, particularly b and c.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jul-2009/142886-charity-flask_corr.jpg


Furthermore, the light area in 2 is reflected light, it comes from the white wall, so it can never be as strong or stronger than the main light, compare 1a and 2a, 1b and 2b.
As a last point, you skipped the shading between the letters.
Shading should be done in several easy layers. And follow the form with your strokes, don't choose the direction which is the most comfortable in that place. Make at least one layer where the strokes follow the roundness of the form.
You can do it, I have already seen it:). OK, this is perhaps not an interesting picture. If you want to go fast, more as a sketch, I suggest you choose hatching instead of tonal shading, remember class 1?

[Synserina]

Thanks for the critique, Arnoud. I think perhaps I'll try a different picture. A lot of the shades are completely off in the uploaded picture, since I actually TOOK the picture and can't seem to use photoshop. But, what you're saying is still correct in my drawing. I'll try again with a more interesting picture, though, and try to incorporate all of that into the new one. :)

[Synserina]

Arnoud-I played a bit with photoshop and scanned the picture instead, so I was able to play with my scanner program, too. It came out a LOT better this time. It's still a bit grainer than it is on paper, but not NEAR as bad as the last upload. :lol:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jul-2009/187619-shell_resized.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Charity -
Well done with respect to the topic of this class :thumbsup:.
I think this is a good example to introduce a new aspect. After the correct outline and the correct shading to give it a 3D illusion, you can make a drawing more interesting by showing the texture, the structure of the surface. In the reference you can see a nice play of light and dark. The easier way to copy this is by using the eraser as a drawing tool. Cut off a small chisel-like piece of white eraser, or knead Blu-tac(TM) in a small cone, and lighten the small highlights. Correct with a sharp pencil where you erased too much, and so on. Cycling through softly lightening and drawing will give you more depth.

[Synserina]

Arnoud- I played with the eraser a bit. By the way, it's easier to put the eraser in the shape of a cone than it is to DRAW a cone. :lol: The scan came out sideways, so I apologize for that. I do hope this is what you meant?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jul-2009/187619-shell2_resized.jpg

[arnoud3272]

I do hope this is what you meant? Yes, definitely :thumbsup:. Now it captures the viewer's attention. Very well done :clap:.

[Synserina]

Thanks, Arnoud! :D Do I still need to do more for this class?

[arnoud3272]

Do I still need to do more for this class? It is your choice, really. But I think you understand the subject of this class, the cone, well enough :thumbsup:.

[VicFromBayville]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jul-2009/181289-Noname.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Vic -
It could be just a loose naming of yours, but I have an issue with "triangle" and "rectangle" in connection with perspective. Perspective is about spatial effect, so think volume, not plane: cube, not square - box, not rectangle.
Specifically, a cone in perspective is constructed in the same way as a cylinder. Construct a cubic container, find the correct center of top and bottom by the diagonals, then construct the ellipse at the bottom, and the center at the top is the center of the cone. On a truncated cone, as on the flask, obviously you construct an ellipse at the top also.
Your sketches are fine :thumbsup:.

[VicFromBayville]

Yes, we may not agree on the terminology. Geometrically one creates a cone by the rotation of a right triangle. The cubic container contains a rectangle (Square) at one end of the cone. I will explore the mystery (to me) of how to draw the correct perspective of a cone laying on its side in two point. Thanks

[arnoud3272]

Geometrically one creates a cone by the rotation of a right triangle. Sure. But how could you rotate it in perspective if you "see" only a plane?
You can draw a cubic container in any perspective, it is just a box, you did it in class 2 and 3. No mystery IMO.
BTW, the method of drawing first a container is the standard way (http://books.google.be/books?id=lrG4sBjgLOYC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=cone+in+perspective&source=bl&ots=cjAqF3H6Xc&sig=k2tZ7f3EhaYZQt6ybN3d2pEfPm8&hl=nl&ei=T3FwSuPTF86NjAeR76iOBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1), it is not my invention :evil:.

[Pasqueflower]

Hi, Arnoud!

Here are my beginning exercises for the construction of a cone:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2009/25293-FirstCones.jpg

It's such a simple thing, but I found it very helpful to construct from that center line idea, then put in the ellipse to give it some volume, and centering the ellipse by inserting the crossbar at what I guesstimate would be center depth. Much more real-looking image of whatever I'm trying to draw. My first cone seemed inadequate, so I tried to do one that looked more like Rudy De Reyna's:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2009/25293-LastCone.jpg

My preliminary drawing, and final rendering, of a studio light --


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2009/25293-Lamp.jpg

I'm really starting to get comfortable with drawing my own straight lines sans the use of a straightedge. The lines are still a little wavering but they have more life to them. And I'm also becoming partial to the use of tracing and graphite paper to do preliminary work on more difficult projects. I found that purchased graphite paper doesn't blend or erase at all well, so I made some of my own, per Mike Sibley's instructions, and it works great! I never would've found out about any of these things if it weren't for these classes :heart:

Here's my seashell, from JayD's selection of pictures.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Oct-2009/25293-Seashell.jpg

I plan to do a picture from the countryside around here to try to finish up the cones class -- unless you have something else in mind?

Thanks very much,

Pam :)

[arnoud3272]

Pam -
These are all very nice, you progressed very well :clap::clap:.
I plan to do a picture from the countryside around here to try to finish up the cones class By all means, yes, drawing from real life is the best practice :).
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[Pasqueflower]

Hi, Arnoud --

What a time I've had with this drawing! My plan to work plein air resulted in a lovely hike, but we'd had a premature ice storm the day before, and it shrivelled up all the nice plump mulleins I'd been going to draw. But it was a great hike and I drew something else, very enjoyable.

I had to draw my mullein from an earlier photograph, and got off to a promising start, but went downhill from there. I made every mistake in the book :p

Anyway, thank Heaven for Blu-Tack, electric erasers, and the "Trim" setting on the scanner....!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Oct-2009/25293-OldWoollyMullein.jpg

Pam :)

[arnoud3272]

Pam -
You told us of your difficulties, but the result is a very fine drawing :clap:.
Now move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[uneekfish]

Cones, cones, cones...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2009/198920-class_6_b.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2009/198920-Class_6a.jpg

[arnoud3272]

uneekfish -
These are nice sketches. You understand the form well :thumbsup:.
I feel that you should start to "think" in shapes of values and tones, away from outlines. Lines are fine in sketching, but I've seen how you are interested in painting media. "Tonal" working is also possible in graphite. Most higher classes here are teaching tonal approaches in fact. The principles are treated in depth in class 8, but for a first look, see e.g. post #142 (page 10) of this thread.

[uneekfish]

uneekfish -
These are nice sketches. You understand the form well :thumbsup:.
I feel that you should start to "think" in shapes of values and tones, away from outlines. Lines are fine in sketching, but I've seen how you are interested in painting media. "Tonal" working is also possible in graphite. Most higher classes here are teaching tonal approaches in fact. The principles are treated in depth in class 8, but for a first look, see e.g. post #142 (page 10) of this thread.

Is this more what you had in mind. I was on a long conf. call today and got a chance to doodle these. I see that the cone is a bit leaning, deformed by the heat of being on the blacktop on a hot summer's day? I should fix it, but well I make up for it's flaws in my elephant! Oh, did I mention I was pleased how it turned out? :lol: It all looks better on this end, I over whitened the image before I sized it to fit here at wet canvas...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2009/198920-cones_2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

uneekfish -
Yes, that corresponds more to tonal drawings, well done :clap:. Of course, line drawings are fine also. But it is very hard to explain how to achieve a "line quality" that make it transcend a sketch. You're on your own then. E.g. look up the drawings by Rembrandt, Matisse, Schiele, ...
Another point: one should not believe everything that is written, but I read that in acquiring any skill, be it sports or professions, the time spent (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8006142) in determined practice is the most important. So basically the choice is to either draw very carefully and spent say 10 hours on one drawing, which you can proudly show to relatives and friends, or produce 40 sketches of 15 minutes, which probably will end up in the dustbin the next week :evil:.
Unless you are attracted to one of the reference pictures, that you still want to draw -- or something of your own choice -- you may move on to a next class :thumbsup:

[oviyam]

Dear Arnoud.
Good Day to you.
Posting Class 6 assignments for your kind review.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Nov-2009/200707-Class_6-001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Nov-2009/200707-Class_6-002.jpg

Thanks and Regards
jarish

[arnoud3272]

Jarish -
These are very nice.
I can only say: Well done, and move on to the next class :clap:.

[oviyam]

Thanks alot Arnoud.
See you in class 7.

Regards
jarish

[mindbender]

Hi again,
my drawing never improved as much as when I did lesson 1-5 here. Then I decided to skip ahead to 14 and...stopped.

Have decided to return to #6 and keep going through the lessons in order. Is it ok to just jump right in where I left off? (finished lesson 5: Spheres)

Do hope so - miss this great drawing practice :)

/Magnus

[arnoud3272]

Hi , Magnus -
Glad to see you again :thumbsup:.
Is it ok to just jump right in where I left off?
By all means, pupils which are no longer beginners can take any class they like, in any order :)

[mindbender]

That's great! Glad to see you too :)

Hope to soon post the first assignment on drawing the cone.

[mindbender]

Here are some initial cone drawings:

[arnoud3272]

Magnus -
Well done. The forms are correct. You are going to a higher level now, it is time to remember the D&S mantra push the darks. The ice cone has the looks of an old bleached B&W photo. I realize that it could be the scan, but that is very easy to correct (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823), and it should not cost you anything (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203090).

[mindbender]

Yes, that is a common problem in my drawing, I keep it in a pale grey. Can't blame the scanner for this one.

I drew this one with a 0.7 mechanical HB pencil, my favorite pencil since smearing is kept to a minimum. And I'm too lazy to protect areas I've already drawn when I'm not doing a "serious" drawing. Never used fixative, to be honest.

I'll redraw the ice cream, but which pencil would you suggest, if not an HB for getting the right blacks - have Derwent 2B, 4B and 6B lying around here :)

Shading with pencil is really something I need to learn. I often hear that my work needs "more contrast", "should have more darker areas", "rendering is good but the strokes show too much in the shading" or that "the shading looks heavy handed".

That's probably why I usually hear that my line drawings in ink is much better than my pencil ones. And one of the reasons I want to go "back to basics" - to learn proper techniques and fundamental skills.

When doing lesson 1-5 I was too eager to get to the advanced figure/fantasy/landscape lessons. This time I'm in no hurry at all, so I really appreciate when you tell me which aspects need to be improved or rework certain sketches.

Having drawn daily since lesson 5 has made me much more humble, much more aware that a strong foundation is necessary. Probably still at the "line" stage, don't know much about "tone" (skipped that part you know *ashamed*)

Just thought you should know this as I go on learning. Thanks for being such a good and patient teacher. Hope I'm a bit more "mature" as a student this time around :D

[arnoud3272]

Magnus -
"heavy handed" should probably be taken literally :lol:. The secret is to start with very light pressure on the pencil, more letting its weight doing the job. Try to put the strokes close together. Now of course, showing the strokes is a valid style, but you can better start with "realistic" shading. For nice, "sensitive" lines in a linear style need the same control of the pencil that you learn with realistic shading. Shade in many layers, each time a little more pressure. You should aim at "walking" through all the mid tones, always keeping a smooth tone. Changing the direction of the strokes with the layers, a bit as crosshatching.
Choice of the paper - good quality, not too light - is very important. Pencil grade: I am a fan of mechanical pencils myself. Their leads have a different quality, you don't need so much different grades. You see?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2010/142886-hb-2b.jpg

Two main differences here are:
-- the time (number of layers) needed; about 4 min with HB against 2.5 with 2B. Yes, graphite is a slow medium if you go for realism :evil:.
-- with the softer grade, it is much more difficult to keep the lighter tones smooth enough.

[mindbender]

Thanks a lot for that valuable feedback. Happy to to hear that I can keep drawing with my beloved mechanical HB - if I have the patience. Will try drawing another ice cream, this time taking the time to shade as realistically as I possibly can, working in layers as suggested :)

[Cinnamon2010]

I took the day off today. Had a snow day, I just love those. Worked on my cone and I decided to do the spider:evil:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2010/210164-cone.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2010/210164-1_spider.jpg
It's a little fuzzy sorry.:o

[arnoud3272]

Laurie -
You get the forms very well :clap:.
A general advice: Don't use a flash! (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493891)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Jan-2010/142886-cin-cone-B.jpg

If there is not enough light, put the camera on a tripod and use the self-timer. As a matter of fact, I always use tripod and self-timer!

To get a believable "realistic" shading, you have to take care of gradations. For instance, the broad lines with sharp edges, particularly on the ice itself, give it a cut-out feeling.
But don't go for it automatically, it also depends on the texture that you want to depict. This linear rendering is very effective on the spider :thumbsup:.

You understand the subject matter of this class very well, so move on to one of the next classes :).

[Cinnamon2010]

Thank you! I think I will go on to the 7th Class. See you there!:wave:

[mindbender]

Hi again,
here is my "second go" at an ice cream. Thanks for teaching me those realistic shading techniques, believe this one is much better than the first: :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Jan-2010/186698-Icecream.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Magnus -
Yes, very good :clap:.
For genuine realistic drawings, you may go still darker :evil:. But at the same time, stretch the range of tones, use many mid tones between the pure white of the paper and your darkest tone.
That is class 8, but anyway :lol:.
Keep up the good work.

[Samira Humaid]

Hi Arnoud,
I have used the same paper for this assignment too. Before the next lesson, Ill go look for other varieties. Here is my work. Thanks

[arnoud3272]

Samira -
The ellipse part is well executed, but I'd advice to pay closer attention to symmetry if you aim for an exact drawing. Some of the geo cone forms are askew. Also the bend in the sides of the ice cone is not expected IRL.

As for your question about papers, it is a personal preference, asking 10 artists will get you 8 different answers. Here are some informative threads about the choice of paper:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575302
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572687
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567425
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517584

[Samira Humaid]

Thanks for all the information about paper. Since I live in a small town, with only one art supplies shop, I was unable to find any of papers mentioned in the threads you provided. However there is a whole selection of Clairfontain papers. I did the lesson 6 assignments again, this time on Clairfontain (laid: I was wondering what that meant) Pastel paper. Please see if you notice any improvement in my work.

[arnoud3272]

Samira -
I have no experience with Chaudefontaine Pastel paper, but according to what I've read it is of good quality. It would serve well for pencil, charcoal and pastel, so you can use it in many lessons, if you're pleased with it. It is only not so good for "photo"-realistic rendering, because of its evident texture. BTW "laid" means a texture that imitates hand-made paper.
Well, whether thanks to the paper, or because of your dedication, your drawing is very much improved. I think a bit of both :clap:.
Only one remark, I think you should "post-process" (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823) the scans. So that on screen they resemble more what they look IRL. And that includes cropping :evil:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jan-2010/142886-lesson62-flask.jpg

Move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[Samira Humaid]

Thank you

[mindbender]

Hi again,
For my next assignment I decided to draw something from life. I settled for a milk can. Also decided to try to work a little bigger - A4 instead of my usual A5.

Here is a first "Work in Progress"-image from the start of the drawing. (0.7 HB on Canson sketch paper). I am aware that the bottom ellipse is too pointy and needs to be adjusted :o - anything else that I need to fix before erasing/transfering and starting to work on shade?

[arnoud3272]

Magnus -
You chose a difficult angle, but you managed rather well.
Remember to sketch complete forms, also the hidden parts, for instance it helps a lot for the bottom ellipse. The top does not look symmetrical: the handle and the spout seem to look in different directions. Here also, I started with sketching in the hidden part.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Feb-2010/142886-MilkCan-corr.jpg

You are doing fine, I look forward to your shading :thumbsup:.

[mindbender]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you say this was a difficult angle - since I found it really difficult to get it right. Will think about "drawing through". Usually do this when sketching, but when aiming for a finished drawing I'm afraid to mess it up to much and having to redraw/transfer. Will try to do that more and muster the patience to transfer and refine if needed.

Glad about the encouragement, will hopefully find time to draw some more today. :)

[mindbender]

Well then, finally time to submit this milk can. Possibly my most challenging subject this far. Here it is:

(used HB, 2B and 4B pencil)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2010/186698-MilkCan.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Magnus -
Very well done :clap:.
There are two slight dents in the bottom, and I doubt that these are faithful reproductions of the real model :evil:, but otherwise the shapes are very good. You did a good job on the shading.
An advice on shading, kinda sneak preview on later classes: you get a better 3D effect if you apply the strokes in the first layer in a manner following the form, the curvature. Like the latitude circles on the globe. It is very often not the most comfortable way :evil:.
Another aspect to keep an eye on: a continuous dark outline diminishes the impression of volume, it gives a cutout effect. Very often, you don't need the outline at all after shading, because the object is darker or lighter than the background. Moreover, a few "lost edges" result in a lively drawing. It's as in erotic art: not showing all has a higher appeal :lol:.
You are progressing well. Move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[mindbender]

Thanks a lot for that valuable advice and encouragement. :) Will try to keep this in mind for future shadings. See you soon in class 7 :wave:

[kiffays]

Hello :wave:

473495

473496

473497

[arnoud3272]

kiffays -
Nice job. You have a good eye for shapes and volumes :clap:.
Move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[m50paul]

Ok here we go.... class 6 exercises.... I am still familiarizing myself with the GMIP s/w.... getting there with the s/w but not quite... still eyeballing for now

[arnoud3272]

Paul -
You understood the last form correctly. One thing that struck me is that you'd better continue to practice on the ellipse. You can make a lot of - say - errors of perspective, without most people realizing. Not so with ellipses. Look for symmetry, and smooth out the bumps. An ellipse has a constant change of curvature, it is not just a squashed circle.
Other than that, you did well, move on to class 7 :thumbsup:.

[m50paul]

Thanks !:smug:

[Tailspin]

Hello, it's me again. :wave:

Here are my exersizes for lesson 6.

The plain cone. I think I'm getting the hang of the elipses. I almost got this one right first shot... at least I think it's right. :rolleyes:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Mar-2010/217014-L6-1.jpg

The ice-cream cone. The ridges took a few tries till I found something that I was happy with. I still don't like the volume. What can I do to make the cone look rounder in the middle?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Mar-2010/217014-L6-2.jpg

And finally, since I've submited two robots already, I might as well make you wonder if I'm a complete fanatic and put in a third. :lol:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Mar-2010/217014-L6-3.jpg

Tailspin

[arnoud3272]

Tailspin -
Nice work :clap:.
On the flat surface of a drawing or painting, you can only obtain the illusion of volume by showing the effect of light on the object. That is, in "art"; engineering drawings use another set of conventions. It is best to imagine your source of light a bit to the side. Having the light in the middle and the darks to the side tends to flatten the form. BTW, you did very well to draw the shadows of the ridges consistently with a central light source.
Another point, specifically for drawings (i.e. in media that technically make only lines), it helps to let your shading strokes follow the form. Not up and down as you did, but curved as the latitude circles on a globe. It is more work, you have to interrupt on the ridges, and you need gradated strokes.
But you did very well, move on to a next class :thumbsup:

[joetrece]

Some notes on this lamp:

I know I totally blew it on the proportions. Way off. I got all tied up structuring, structuring. I drew a box that seemed about the lamp's size, then I drew ellipses (foreshortened circles) at the ends and a cross section inside. I feel like I spend way too much time on this structure/form stuff, but it's what makes sense to me. But I wish I could see how people with more skill than me would approach drawing this lamp. It feels especially tough to keep everything in perspective, when you're doing the sketch. How do pros _do_ this?

Thanks for looking at this.

[arnoud3272]

Joe -
Yes, the proportion is off, but still, well done :clap:.
You have the correct understanding how to construct. More skilled artists will probably do it less explicitly, a bit automatically, for simple subjects. The point is to remember to check / "measure" in the early stages. You see, the proportion was already off after drawing the first square:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2010/142886-joe-corr.jpg

The best way to learn is not to measure before putting down a form, but to measure for feedback, for correction.
Another point to consider: I see you opt for a tonal rendering, a shading where the separate strokes are no longer apparent. As a general rule, but in particular in that style, it is important to blend away the outlines. Purely visually taken, we don't see outlines, we see the edge of an object because there is a difference of value, tone, (and color, when painting).
I think you are ready to move on :thumbsup:.

[joetrece]

Thanks so much for your comments, Arnoud. I get a _lot_ of needed info from those comments.

You've confirmed an ongoing problem I have: I overcomplicate things. You're saying it's best to get the fundamental form down first, then measure it and correct it. That makes sense.

And, I need to get rid of (blend in) those outline when I do shading. Because outlines don't exist in the natural world. I must remind myself to take out the outlines.

Thanks again!

Joe

[Sercei]

Here are my class 6 drawings.
I did these quickly in my small sketchbook, but the umbrella is something I'd like to use in a still life. Maybe leaning against a wall near a door with some wet puddles? Does that sound too ambitious?



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jun-2010/223647-class6a.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jun-2010/223647-class6b.jpg

Thanks!
Melanie

[arnoud3272]

Melanie -
Well done :clap:.
The sketched ellipses are a bit sloppy, but it is clear you understand their fundamental form: no pointed ends :thumbsup:. The shadows on the ice cone are a good illustration of the texture.
Please move on :music:.

[Marie-réunion]

Hi arnoud, here are my class 6 drawings :
548691

548701

[arnoud3272]

Marie-Noelle -
Good job :clap:.
You understand the cones well, and the ellipses are well formed in general. Take special care when you see only a part of the ellipse. Draw the complete ellipse in the first sketching to avoid the points at the end. As an example (the error is a bit masked by my correction, look at your original drawing to recognize it):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Sep-2010/142886-bikeL-corr.jpg

Well done, move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[Marie-réunion]

thanks arnoud, I'll go to follow your tip and draw the complete ellipse every time it's uncomplete.

[muvs32]

These are some conical studies that I have done in the last day or so. The cone definitely makes me more conscious of my shading. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2010/228972-ice_cream_cone_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/01-Nov-2010/228972-cones_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2010/228972-bottle_001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Mark -
Good job :clap:.
Your shading is very well worked out. One advice for linear shading, when you leave visible strokes, as on the table top of the bottle: make sure they run in a consistent way, defining the different planes. On flat surfaces one would expect all lines on the same plane to be parallel. Or in a consistent cross-hatching, although that is not so much of a pencil technique, more for pen & ink. There are some illogical cross lines in your shading of the table top.
One end of a cone is - in perspective - an ellipse. Look out for sharp ends, an ellipse is by definition a regular form, don't draw it as a canoe:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2010/142886-muvs-cones-corr.jpg

You did very well in this class, see you in one of the next classes :thumbsup:.

[muvs32]

Thanks for the feed back Around, I will definitely be taking your critiques into account. I'm still working on 'non' visible shading as you can tell but between practice and the classes I am getting the hang of it IMO, thanks.

P.S. the table cloth shading was a result of being lazy...I will keep in mind your points as I tend to do this too often. (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/member.php?u=142886)

[LittleBear]

I decided to continue these classes in order for a little bit longer. Here are my submissions for class 6. Thank you for reviewing them!

[arnoud3272]

Alex - Very nice drawings :clap:. I like the texture on the (wicker ?) cones very much. And you succeeded very well on the flask :thumbsup:.

[newkidontheblock]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2011/500681-6cone1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jan-2011/500681-6cone2.JPG

Arnoud, What is the best way to do letters on glass? I did the outlines and of course they can be seen, but not sure how else to do them.
Thanks Lyn

[arnoud3272]

Lyn -
Good job on the cones :clap:.
Re: outlines - in realistic, tonal drawing - draw them very light, or lighten them with a kneaded eraser, so that they blend into the shading. Working with a kneaded eraser is very well explained by Mike Sibley (http://www.sibleyfineart.com/tutorial--erasing-pencil-blu-tack.htm) (the article is on a particular brand, but the techniques are general)
:wave:

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks Arnoud.
Here's another cone although my estimation of page allowance was so far wrong that I couldn't finish the pot.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jan-2011/500681-6cone3.JPG

Thanks, Lyn

[arnoud3272]

Lyn -
Very nice :clap:.
I couldn't finish the pot. That is a very common error. The method to avoid it is to start by putting small marks for the height that you want to allot. Then subdividing the height for the "landmarks", in this case for instance the largest width is just above half the height, mark also the estimated width on those points. When working out, correct the width only when necessary, leave the height as laid out in the beginning.
:wave:

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks Arnoud. May I move to the next class?
Thanks, Lyn

[arnoud3272]

Thanks Arnoud. May I move to the next class?
Thanks, Lyn
Yes, sure, you did very well :thumbsup:.

[iqaluit]

Back from the holiday break with my conical shapes. The scans came out less sharp then usual, I was using a different scanner. Anyway, appreciate your comments Arnoud. Thankshttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2011/216117-cone_1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2011/216117-cone_2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

iqaluit -
Good job :clap:.
The shapes are right, and you succeeded well in suggesting the 3D model by shading. One point to take into consideration next time: when drawing a "real" object in its context, like the flask here, make sure to "ground" it. (You did give it a shadow on the wall, but nothing to rest upon)
Well done, move on to one of the next classes :thumbsup:

[iqaluit]

thanks Arnoud, I get what you mean about grounding the subject, the floating shadow does seem strange. See you in class 7

[inkslinger427]

heres a couple of cones. No icecream cone, just cones. And a dragon. Dragons got cones. Its true, they're really there. I saw them. Hell, I put them there! :evil:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/556291-cones_1.JPG

Like I said, cones.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/556291-cone_dragon.JPG
This is a WIP. A Dragon, hopefully with something fresh.

[arnoud3272]

Tim -
Well done so far :clap:.
I like how you draw the auxiliary lines for keeping the symmetry. But take care, you lost it in the base of the goblet:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2011/142886-tim-cones-corr.JPG

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[inkslinger427]

Did some more work on my dragon. What do you think?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2011/556291-CLEAN_DRAGON.JPG :wave:

[arnoud3272]

Tim -
Very nice. Well done :clap:.
I like its (his/her?) expression very much :lol:, not too nearby please.
Did you look already in the Fantasy and Sci-Fi Art (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=94) forum?
Your lines and shading are rapidly improving :thumbsup:.
If you like, move on to a next class :music:.

[inkslinger427]

Thanks!!! See you there!

[Magdalena Ladwik]

Hello! Arnoud would You able to review my class 6 assignment please?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/21-May-2011/952977-cone.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/21-May-2011/952977-lejek.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/21-May-2011/952977-ice_cream.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
and the last one, the flask...I finally decided to upload it as conical object assignment, but I hesitated because of letters. When I finished flask (I mean outline + shading) I left letters at the end. Do You want me to do it from scratch?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/21-May-2011/952977-flask.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)
Thank You
Magdalena

[arnoud3272]

Magdalena - Very nice, well done :clap:. A little thing to remember: further away looks smaller :evil:. Two concentric circles do not end up in concentric ellipses: a will be a tad smaller than b.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-May-2011/142886-magdalena.JPG

That aside, everything is very well rendered, I don't see anything wrong with the letters, they are very believable. Please move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[Magdalena Ladwik]

I will remember this and I hope that I will know/feel how and when use it correctly in practice. Thank You for your help, remarks and time Arnoud and see You in next class :wave:

[maisygrrl]

Here are my first few practice drawings. I think I'm going to give the seashell a try this evening.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-19-cones-resized.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-19-icecream-spaceship-resized.jpg

One side of the spaceship is definitely not right, and it looks wider than it should be, though I'd swear it looked right when I was drawing it. I always, always see some huge mistake as soon as I post :lol: (The spaceship is a thing I knitted a while back -- I was looking at it and decided it looked like it was made of a couple of cut-off cones. I didn't draw it from this photo, but for reference:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2011/968565-2011-03-19-spaceship02_medium2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Daisy - Very well done :clap:.
Something that could enhance your drawings - not related to this lesson - is to consider the use of different markings for different textures, surface structures. Your shading strokes are the same for ice cream and knitted fabric.
Look forward to your next entry :thumbsup:.

[RVT]

class 6 homework. Thanks. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jun-2011/962581-IMG_2931.JPG

[maisygrrl]

Shell drawing - I tried to work on showing the texture more, with sort of mixed results I think. Toning the background without creating a weird halo around the shell was harder than I expected, not sure if I'm going about it in a reasonable way or not. I kept changing direction each time I went over it again in hopes of making all the lines blend together.

(BTW, I'm feeling better about the spaceship now -- I went and looked at it again since I couldn't figure out how I made it so much wider than it looked in the photo, and sure enough sometime after that photo was taken I apparently spent some time smooshing the bottom so it'd be flatter and more flying-saucer-ish. I fixed up the weird side in the drawing and it look about the right shape now.)

Thanks for looking :)


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-20-shell-resized.jpg

[arnoud3272]

RVT - Well done :clap:. Pay particular attention to your ellipses, the top of the basic cone drawing shows 4 corners.
But nice job in general, keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[arnoud3272]

Daisy - Very nice :clap:.
Toning the background without creating a weird halo around the shell was harder than I expected, not sure if I'm going about it in a reasonable way or not. I kept changing direction each time I went over it again in hopes of making all the lines blend together. A frequently given advice is to start with the background, there is even a complete class in the "higher" (102) series on that subject - class 102-7 (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364891) (by Mike Sibley).
Working in several layers, changing the direction between the layers, is a very good technique. What you need more practice on, is controlling the pressure on the pencil: some strokes are all of a sudden much darker than their neighbours. It helps to grip the pencil more away from the point. Underhand grip, of course.
See you in one of the next classes :thumbsup:.

[RVT]

Hi, Arnound, I am back. It has been almost a month since I did last assignment.

I did the basic cone again and drew a new seashell.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jul-2011/962581-cone.jpg

[arnoud3272]

RVT - Well done :clap:. You are ready for one of the next classes :thumbsup:.

[Gingerbread]

Arnoud,
Here are my attempts at the cone and some of the other objects.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/978288-Bike_thingy.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/978288-cone.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/978288-Flask.JPG

Thanks,
Jennifer :)

[arnoud3272]

Well done on the forms, Jennifer. Take care that you don't loose the symmetry on objects that everybody expects to be symmetrical; draw a mid line, view in a mirror, or upside down, develop your "seeing" skills.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Oct-2011/142886-jennifer-Flask-corr.JPG
On another point, I think it is time to reflect on the direction(s) that you want to develop further. The attention was mainly on the forms until now, that is fine if your aim is to sketch in preparation for other media, pastel for instance. But for drawings in their own right, it is rather boring, bland, if all the strokes have the same character - in jargon called "line quality". Try to develop some variety: thick - thin, hard-edged - soft-edged (sharp pencil!), and the like. I'd also advice to experiment with different styles: outlined (line quality is critical here), outline with accents of suggested shading, shading in "cross-hatching", realist shading, i.e. no visible strokes, no outlines at all.
See you in one of the next classes :thumbsup:

[Gingerbread]

Arnoud, I can see that the symmetry is definitely off. I will take care to be more aware of that.

I like oil pastel but I'd like to improve my drawings, so I will work on incorporating some of the changes regarding the strokes. I appreciate that you've taken the time to look at my drawings and to provide me such helpful feedback. I will see you in one of the next classes.

Best regards,
Jennifer :)

[latedrawer]

Hello Arnoud. Here are some of my drawings for practicing cones. I had the most difficulty in drawing actual objects, especially in capturing proportion and perspective. So I'm looking forward to any comments.:) Carole
694345

694346

694347

694348

694349

[latedrawer]

Here's one more picture, a desk lamp. Carole
694350

[arnoud3272]

Carole - Very good sketches :clap:.
If you need to draw accurate perspective, construct a rectangular ("cubic") container around the object. Correct the perspective of the container and adapt the object. I've made an example of such a container around one of the viewers. You see that there is very little discrepancy. You have a good eye for sketching :thumbsup:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Nov-2011/142886-carole-viewer-corr.jpg

You did a good job in this class, please move on :music:

[latedrawer]

Arnoud, thank you so much for the specific feedback!:clap::clap::clap:
All your suggestions have helped me a great deal. I'm moving on to class 7.
Carole

[LindaGal]

Tried a few different cones - think I get the cones but can't do relections! This is the pic
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2012/974162-icecream_cone.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2012/974162-cones.jpg

[wendyc1276]

Here are a couple of drawings...still working on the bike thingy and maybe then the bottle. A lot of good references, just never enough time.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2012/201691-cones.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2012/201691-icecone.jpg

Thanks for having a look!

[wendyc1276]

Here are the rest of the drawings
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2012/201691-bikething.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Jan-2012/201691-flask2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Linda - Good job :clap:. Correct forms on the cones and nice shading.
The reflections themselves are well done. Where you erred in in fact on the effect of the vertical lighting and its penumbra. But lights and shadows are the subject of a later class (class 8), so it is OK for now :).

[arnoud3272]

Wendy - Very nice :clap:. You've no problems with these forms.
Please move on to a next class :thumbsup:

[LindaGal]

Wendy - I love your drawings they look really good - love the way you have got the words to come out

[Felisa]

I had a difficult time shading the ice cream. I worked more with the eraser than with the pencil
I read one of your posts about different pencils (up to now I have been working with HB) and bought a set of different numbers, however I would like to know more about materials for drawing, not only paper and pencils but also erasers (it would be helpful if erasers that could be sharpened existed) and other useful tools for drawing.

Could you recommend some books or articles on these? http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2012/122109-Conical_Ob..jpg

Thank you for your help.

[arnoud3272]

Elisa - Well done :clap:.
The issue is not so much which pencils and papers exist, but how you use them, and also very important, what are your intentions as to style. Extreme realism needs very smooth paper, and a lot of different grades of graphite (and a lot of patience). On a paper with more tooth, you can work easier, in a style which was considered drawing a century ago. There is only one clear point as to the choice of paper, don't go for light paper, use at least 220 gsm (in the metric system, I've no idea on which continent you live)
It looks perhaps a bit cheap, but the only serious advice is: try it out, look what you like.

And yes, erasers that can be sharpened exist, they are called click erasers

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14151649&highlight=click+eraser#post14151649

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14845972&highlight=click+eraser#post14845972

[mayana]

Hello Arnoud,

I have been practicing how to make these object look 3D, voila...I am not sure are they ok enough!!!Let me know teacher, thaaaanks!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2012/164039-class6.jpeg

[arnoud3272]

mayana - Very nice :clap:. Correct ellipses and a good start on the shading. Excellent job.
Please move on :thumbsup:.

[Panth]

Hi Arnoud, here are my drawings on cones. I found these shell pictures on a box. :) Prabha.

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Prabha :clap:.

[docxart]

Hello,
Here is my attempt at a the ice cream cone. What do you think?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jul-2012/1074922-Class_6_001.jpg

Qadir

[arnoud3272]

:thumbsup:

[crafor]

Hello, Arnoud,
Here are two cones. I want to tell you I'm having a really hard time with doing ellipses. I'll be sending more soon. They're just not easy for me.

OOPS-here they are!:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2012/978289-P8190079.JPG


Ella

[arnoud3272]

Ella - Nice ice cone :clap:, well done.
Ellipses become easier with practice :thumbsup:. I like how you try the construction rectangle, but few people show the correct way :(. The ellipse is a perfectly symmetrical form (ask any digital artist). So the enclosing rectangle should not be drawn in perspective. (Red).
Of course to find the center of the parent circle, perspective must be applied (blue).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2012/142886-ellipse-geo.jpg
BTW, this was already explained in the very first treatise on perspective, published 1435 !
:wave:

[netta13542]

Hello Around I'm still interested with the classes. I have been very busy with school and other things in my life. I think I left off here. I have done some of the conical drawings last month but I will add on to those and post what I can finish.

[Mahbubani]

Hello Arnoud,
Thanks for the Eye tutorial. It really helped.
Here is my first assignment of this class.:crossfingers:

[arnoud3272]

Nice ice cone, Mona :thumbsup:. Well done :clap:.

[Mahbubani]

Thanks Arnoud.
Here is the second assignment:crossfingers:

[arnoud3272]

Very well done, Mona :clap:.
I think you are ready to move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[Mahbubani]

Thank you Arnoud. See u in Class 7

[pratya.amrit]

hey Arnoud
here are the assignments for this class..... :D
plz hve a look.. :crossfingers:
thnx

[arnoud3272]

Nice drawings, Pratya :clap:.
Good understanding of the forms, and nice rendering :thumbsup:.
Well done, see you in a next class :).

[crafor]

Ella - Nice ice cone :clap:, well done.
Ellipses become easier with practice :thumbsup:. I like how you try the construction rectangle, but few people show the correct way :(. The ellipse is a perfectly symmetrical form (ask any digital artist). So the enclosing rectangle should not be drawn in perspective. (Red).
Of course to find the center of the parent circle, perspective must be applied (blue).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2012/142886-ellipse-geo.jpg
BTW, this was already explained in the very first treatise on perspective, published 1435 !
:wave:
I haven't been back because I still don't understand what you said, but I think I got a glimmer this morning. well, no I didn't. You are still drawing the ellipse IN the ...I don't get it. If the perspective rectangle is not needed, why draw it? If the not in perspective rectangle is not needed, why draw IT? which is the parent circle, and why do we need the center of it? I'm lost.
Ella

[arnoud3272]

Sorry Ella if you got confused :o. I saw how you tried to fix the ellipse into a rectangle in perspective. That is not right. An ellipse, seen as a form in itself - a flat form - is perfectly symmetrical, so the guidelines must be a flat rectangle, the red lines.
I wanted to stress that the ellipse is symmetrical, NOT as you'll read regularly that the front has a shallower curve than the back.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2012/142886-ellipse-myth.jpg NOT

On the other hand - this is not directly helping to draw better, just for your understanding - if seen as a circle in perspective, the enclosing rectangle of the circle is also in perspective. That's the blue lines. Not needed, just remember that the midline of the circle in perspective is behind the center. For instance the position of the stem of a wineglass on the foot. But you should not try to construct it, just draw what you see.
Look for instance at an indoor soccer field: perfect ellipse, center towards the back.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Sep-2012/142886-soccer.jpeg

:wave:

[crafor]

Thanks, that helped. Here are a few cones. I think I have it now.
Ella


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Sep-2012/978289-P9100124.JPG

[arnoud3272]

Very good job, Ella :clap:.
You're ready to move on to a next class :thumbsup:.

[lajale]

Hi Arnoud
I decided to go to take the classes in order a bit further before I start to jump to my favorites.


Here are my Class 6 assignments, first sketches and one drawing:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2012/1049812-Sketche_1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2012/1049812-Sketche_2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2012/1049812-Sketche_3.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Very well done, Chris :clap:.
Your sense for forms is well developed :clap:. Something to look at for possibly improving the general impression: as many beginners, your drawing is rather "timid", washed out, looks an underdeveloped B&W photo. Compare for instance with this example from "Successful Drawing" by Loomis (http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Oct-2012/142886-loomis-ex.jpg
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[lajale]

Thanks for the tip and the link.

I will work on that :):wave:

[Knitknitfrog]

Hello Arnoud,
here are my first 'cones', the obligatory ice cream cone, mine is chocolate, and a few cone shaped things from around the house. I'm back to working in my sketchbook, so graduations are not as easy - but I figure that it is best to use up the pages and then look for a new sketch book with paper that I like better. My scanner wanted to straighten the cone, tip it so that one side of the cone was vertical - I've done my best to rotate it back but see it is not quite there yet. I'll investigate scanner settings so the scanner dosn't take over next time.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2013/1161351-cones-ice-cream.gif
And a watering can from near our front door, with using the not-so-great paper I thought I would play with other ways of indicating shape, so used lines and hatching.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2013/1161351-cone-watering-can-.gif
Lastly a few cone shaped objects that I lined up on the mantlepiece, I am getting quicker - which may indicate I am more able to draw accurately, or perhaps I am being lazy and not taking the time to render properly. I have found that I have to draw from photographs as if I draw from real-life the light changes and the shadows move.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2013/1161351-Jug-Vase-and-hand-cream.gif
I'm planning to work on the shell next - and the bike headlamp (is that what it is?), so I can work with cones with curves, and with reflections.
as always any c&c warmly welcomed.
Stella

[arnoud3272]

Very well done, Stella :clap:.

[Knitknitfrog]

Hello,
I'm working away with the cone exercises, and realising that there is a strong link between what I have learned about photography and what is required for drawing. With photography it is considered important to retain detail in the shadows, and as I drew the glass vial I 'discovered' that the way to stop the shadow looking like it was part of the vial was to capture the detail in the shadow. My shading is not as smooth as I would like ... but I expect that will come in time with lots more practice ...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2013/1161351-cones-glass-bottle.gif

I have also been plodding away with the car headlamp, sketching and resketching to try and understand how it works as an image, how the parts fit together, and how the shadows work, and especially what shapes are in the cupped section below the body.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2013/1161351-cone-headlamp-planning.gif
This is the stage I am up to now, I think i have the proportions and details captured, and I have made preliminary 'sketch-notes' of how the shading works.
At this point I'd love any comments and suggestions on things that I have missed or bits I have mistaken before I begin to turn this into a final drawing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2013/1161351-cone-headlamp-planning-values.gif

[arnoud3272]

You're doing very well, Stella :clap:

[Knitknitfrog]

Hello Arnoud,here is my final drawing of the headlamp,
i was away from this for nearly a week and lost track of the exact pencils that I was using, but overall I'm happy.
now it is scanned I see little bumps and details that could be better, and i need to practice how to capture the look of metal. I think the scan has captured fewer tones than seem present in the drawing, I'm still learning how to scan something so it looks like the original.
As always comments and critique appreciated.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jan-2013/1161351-cone-headlamp-done.gif

[arnoud3272]

Excellent job, Stella :clap:.
I'm still learning how to scan something so it looks like the original Here is a useful article on post-production (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823).
Drawing metal is the main subject of class 27 (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295671).
:wave: