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View Full Version : I went back to non WS oils tonight. Didn't like it


Osteomark
01-13-2010, 12:21 AM
Thought I'd use up some regular oils I've had laying around. OOOOh did not have fun. I hated having to clean with the walnut oil constantly. I did not want to break out the turps. My hands were filthy and my son kept saying "Dad whats that smell?". I guess I was taking the WS for granted. They are much easier in my book.
Mark

hal_s
01-13-2010, 12:05 PM
I recently went back to regular oils after only using water miscible oils for 20 paintings (they are small paintings, and not necessarily well executed, but nevertheless...)

I actually didn't find the regular oils much more of a hassle. I seldom need to clean the brushes in the middle of a painting session, a paper towel works fine for switching between most colors. I get very little paint on my hands (although when I do get it on my hands, the WMO is easier to wash off).

And now I can use Liquin--I love that stuff, although unfortunately it contains petroleum distillates and the purpose of me using WMOs in the first place is that I live in a not-well-ventilated studio apartment.

kbaxterpackwood
01-13-2010, 07:57 PM
Which brands of paints are you working with for both the WM and nonWM oils? This "may" make a difference.

Kimberly

hal_s
01-13-2010, 10:38 PM
I was using Artisan WMOs.

For regular oils, a mish-mosh of brands including W&N, Gamblin, Grumbacher, Holbein, Rembrandt, Utrecht, and even an old tube of Liquitex Dioxazine Purple (they discontinued that line in the 1990s I think).

ladypainter
01-14-2010, 09:27 AM
There is no way I could use the traditional oils.I painted with them when I was a teenager( which was light years ago):rolleyes: but now I cant even take the smell when I open a tube and my eyes get so red and irritated I can hardly see. And that is not even with the turps.I ended up using acrylics for years which I still like occasionally When w/s oils came along it was like a gift:)

hal_s
01-14-2010, 11:52 AM
There is no way I could use the traditional oils.I painted with them when I was a teenager( which was light years ago):rolleyes: but now I cant even take the smell when I open a tube and my eyes get so red and irritated I can hardly see. And that is not even with the turps.I ended up using acrylics for years which I still like occasionally When w/s oils came along it was like a gift:)

I don't find this account believable. Water miscible oils contain the same pigments as regular oils. And the oil itself is vegetable oil, and I haven't heard of anyone who's eyes get red when exposed to vegetable oils.
You must be confusing fine-art oil paints with some other type of paints that you were exposed to. Or you are experiencing a nocebo effect.

greywolf-art
01-20-2010, 05:10 PM
I find it a bit strange that you say you had a reaction to the ordinary oil paint too - the linseed oil is pretty much the same for both types of oil so if you reacted to ordinary oils you should have reacted to artisans in the same way!

was it perhaps the fast drying oils (alkyds) you tried - these have a strong petroleum odour to them and I personally can't stant using them because of that!

BTW I do use traditional artists oil paints as well and although they are not as convenient as WMO's they are not too bad if you know what to do, I only wipe the paint off with a rag while working - then at the end of the session I rub artisan linseed oil into the brushes to dissolve the paint, then I can just wash in ordinary soap & water as the WMO linseed makes the paint residue water soluble too :)

dspinks
01-21-2010, 09:53 PM
BTW I do use traditional artists oil paints as well and although they are not as convenient as WMO's they are not too bad if you know what to do, I only wipe the paint off with a rag while working - then at the end of the session I rub artisan linseed oil into the brushes to dissolve the paint, then I can just wash in ordinary soap & water as the WMO linseed makes the paint residue water soluble too :)

That's very good to know. I have a handful of Grumbacher PreTested that I only use in knife painting because of the brush cleanup hassle - now I can give them a try with brushes.

kbaxterpackwood
01-21-2010, 10:18 PM
BTW I do use traditional artists oil paints as well and although they are not as convenient as WMO's they are not too bad if you know what to do, I only wipe the paint off with a rag while working - then at the end of the session I rub artisan linseed oil into the brushes to dissolve the paint, then I can just wash in ordinary soap & water as the WMO linseed makes the paint residue water soluble too :)

Excellent as I see W&N has some colors in their regular oil line that they don't have in their Artisan line yet! I will have to try this tomorrow :cat:

Kimberly

7canamer
01-22-2010, 07:19 PM
I used to paint in oils 35 years ago and after I retired, I decided to start painting again. I decided to try a different medium because I can't stand the smell nor the clean up associated with traditional oils. I've been dabbling in watercolours and acrylics but my first love is oil. I remember those long years ago that I would cover my palette with saran and put it in the freezer for the time when I could paint again. What techniques are different with WS Oil- do I still use medium, do I varnish the finished painting? I liked olfgrey-art's blog response. It's encouraging that I can also use regular oils and clean up with Artisan Linseed Oil. Thanks for the info and discussion. 7canamer.

greywolf-art
01-23-2010, 06:40 AM
I find there is no difference from conventional oils, Winsor & Newton even have water soluble thinners, linseed oil, stand oil, safflower oil, painting medium & fast drying medium (liquin) & possibly some others I can't remember, so its just like working in old fashioned oils - but without the need for turps & solvents ect.

rules for varnishing ect are the same too.

P.S. the artisan thinners won't work with conventional oils only water soluble oils, but all the other WS mediums work fine with conventional oils.

ladypainter
01-23-2010, 08:58 AM
I don't find this account believable. Water miscible oils contain the same pigments as regular oils. And the oil itself is vegetable oil, and I haven't heard of anyone who's eyes get red when exposed to vegetable oils.
You must be confusing fine-art oil paints with some other type of paints that you were exposed to. Or you are experiencing a nocebo effect.


Well just because YOU dont find it believable doesnt mean a thing. It certainly doesnt mean it is not true.

I painted with so called "traditional" oils when a teenager with no reaction.I didnt paint again for many years for reasons I wont go into. When I did start painting again I went to the oil paint and had a very strong eye reaction. If you dont know about eye allergies they are very different from the kind that affect your breathing ,sinuses etc. This I was told from an eye specialist.

I tried the w/s oil paints and I do not have a reaction for whatever reason ,be it the way they are put together or what I dont know.All I know is I can paint with them and that is all I need to know.

greywolf-art
01-23-2010, 09:15 AM
Well just because YOU dont find it believable doesnt mean a thing. It certainly doesnt mean it is not true.

I painted with so called "traditional" oils when a teenager with no reaction.I didnt paint again for many years for reasons I wont go into. When I did start painting again I went to the oil paint and had a very strong eye reaction. If you dont know about eye allergies they are very different from the kind that affect your breathing ,sinuses etc. This I was told from an eye specialist.

I tried the w/s oil paints and I do not have a reaction for whatever reason ,be it the way they are put together or what I dont know.All I know is I can paint with them and that is all I need to know.

At the end of the day that's all that matters - that you have found a medium you can work with, I do know that different manufacturers put different additives in their paints - maybe it was one of those additives that caused the allergic reaction?

Either that or you had a reaction to a specific pigment that you had never been in contact with, there are a lot of colours now using modern substitute pigments instead of the colour stated on the tube, so cadmium red from one manufacturer may well be pyrolle red not true cadmium for example, and if you were allergic to pyrolle but not cadmium then one brand of cadmium red paint would cause an allergic reaction but not another - if that makes sense!

the problem with allergies is that one persons allergen can be totally harmless to another person, so its hard to pinpoint what exactly you are allergic to :( I just doubt it was the actual linseed oil that caused the reaction for the reasons I stated in my first post.

hal_s
01-23-2010, 02:04 PM
Well just because YOU dont find it believable doesnt mean a thing. It certainly doesnt mean it is not true.
I didn't say that I didn't believe you had a reaction, I said (or at least clearly implied) that I didn't find your account of the cause of the reaction to be believable

Either (a) you were talking about some paint other than regular oil paint, maybe something like W&N Griffin Alkyds (which have solvent in them); or (b) there was a specific pigment in the regular oils that you weren't using in the water soluble oils (as greywolf-art mentioned above); or (c) you experienced a nocebo effect; in other words, you had a reaction for psychological reasons unrelated to the actual substances in the tube of paint.

I simply do not believe that regular linseed oil could cause a severe allergic reaction while water soluble linseed oil would cause no reaction at all, unless it was psychological and not physiological.

I don't think we need to spread misinformation about the hazards of oil paints; it's the pigments and solvents which are hazardous, and NOT the oil itself. And with respect to pigments, the same pigments are also used in water soluble oils, acrylics, and watercolors, so you cannot avoid a pigment allergy by switching media.

* **

To consider other weird allergies that someone might have, maybe a specific oil found in certain brand of paints? People have nut allergies, so maybe walnut oil could cause a reaction? Paints can also contain binders or driers, maybe those ingredients could cause a reaction? A brand like Winsor and Newton Artist's oils which comes closest to being just pigment and oil might be better than student quality paints which contain fillers and driers. It's also possible for someone to be allergic to the water soluble oil and not regular oil, because the water soluble oil may contain a surfactant that causes an allergic reaction.