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JayD
11-14-2004, 11:53 PM
Basic 101: Class 4

Drawing Cylindrical Objects


BEFORE you start this week’s lesson go to the following tutorial (http://www.sibleyfineart.com/tutorial--draw-ellipses.htm)
by Mike Sibley on the subject of ellipses.


Here is the definition of an ellipse:

Main Entry: el·lipse
Pronunciation: i-'lips, e-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek elleipsis
1 a : OVAL b : a closed plane curve generated by a point moving in such a way that the sums of its distances from two fixed points is a constant : a plane section of a right circular cone that is a closed curve

Source: Merriam-Webster online

NOW

Here is the definition of our subject, the cylinder

Main Entry: cyl·in·der
Pronunciation: 'si-l&n-d&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French cylindre, from Latin cylindrus, from Greek kylindros, from kylindein to roll; perhaps akin to Greek kyklos wheel -- more at WHEEL
1 a : the surface traced by a straight line moving parallel to a fixed straight line and intersecting a fixed planar closed curve b : the space bounded by a cylinder and two parallel planes cutting all its elements -- see VOLUME table
2 : a cylindrical body or space: as a : the turning chambered breech of a revolver b (1) : the piston chamber in an engine (2) : a chamber in a pump from which the piston expels the fluid c : any of various rotating members in a press (as a printing press); especially : one that impresses paper on an inked form d : a cylindrical clay object inscribed with cuneiform inscriptions
- cyl·in·dered /-d&rd/ adjective

Source: Merriam-Webster online
Good grief! All this time I thought that a cylinder was a tube. I guess the moral of the story is don’t get tangled up in too many technical points.

Figure 1 is a Slinky—A slinky, besides being fun for every girl and boy, is a wonderful illustration of a cylinder in action. It lifts and it separates, don’t you know and so for our purposes it is a versatile model.

EXERCISE 1. Draw the diagram of the Slinky as I did . Do as many of these as your sanity and your time will allow. When you draw this object think about the cylinder that it IS and the ellipse’ that are contained with in—if you think about it, every coil is an ellipse and all of the combined coils make up ONE cylinder

Now look at figure 2. Let’s draw a cylinder sans Slinky:

1. First, decide how big, mall or wide that you would like your cylinder to be.

2. Start drawing by roughing in the ellipses, top and bottom. I generally move the pencil in a counter clockwise manner.

3. Next sketch in the sides and now you have your cylinder. Sounds simple.

LEARN TO SEE, JUST LIKE THE CUBE, THE CYLINDERS THAT ARE IN THE OBJECTS THAT SURROUND YOU EVERYDAY.

Figure 3 is a demonstration of modifying a cylinder to make an object:

THE BOTTLE:

1. Start by drawing your cylinder like you did above.

2. Once you complete the cylinder draw the shape of the object WITHIN the cylinder. Shaping the neck and body of the bottle.

It is THAT simple. I have gone ahead and sketched out, using the cylinder, several other objects. Try your hand at them—then look around your house and see if you can find some more.

Here are the practice exercises (below) for this week. Several are drawings that I have completed but there are others that are just photos. Try to do at least ONE of these. If you happen to see a cube in the drawing—DRAW IT! Happy drawing!


:)

JayD
11-14-2004, 11:55 PM
Here are the last images for you to try:

JayD
11-15-2004, 12:02 AM
and finally, some more:

Note from the Editor: This thread continues with the recent posts. The older posts can be found in this closed thread:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230387

oviyam
11-10-2009, 01:35 AM
Dear Arnoud,
Posting some of my class 4 assignments. Please review it.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-002.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-004.jpg

Another perspective of the KEY. (Just a Try!!:) )

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-003.jpg

Thanks & Regards
jarish

arnoud3272
11-10-2009, 08:06 AM
jarish -
These are very nice :clap:. In fact they are so nice that it is really a pity you did not check the centerline :o:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2009/142886-jarish-glass-corr.jpg

The ellipses have a good form, generally. The bottom of the glass has a little bump at 10 o'clock, but otherwise these are very good.
The key in another perspective is a fine attempt :thumbsup:. A few remarks perhaps: the ellipses on the shaft (the grooves) are a bit too pointy.
You're doing very fine :music:.

oviyam
11-11-2009, 02:37 AM
Thanks arnoud,
Will take care of your instructions.

Will do the rest soon.

Regards
Jarish

oviyam
11-15-2009, 03:21 AM
Dear Arnoud,
Posting some more class 4 assignments. Please check these.

CUP
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-005.jpg

Another CUP

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-006.jpg

Here some of my studies which i did from memory.
I dont know is these are too much !! :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-007.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-010.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-009.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/200707-Class_4-008.jpg

arnoud3272
11-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Jarish -
Good job :thumbsup:.
These are very fine in general :clap:. Your weak point seems to be the symmetry.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/142886-oviyam-Corr-010.jpg

Take care to check the centerline, put your drawing upside down, look at it in a mirror.
Don't forget the horizontal center either. Or is this a novel design, with the upper part eccentric on purpose?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Nov-2009/142886-oviyam-Corr-008.jpg

You were very dedicated in this class, please move on to class 5 :music:

oviyam
11-15-2009, 01:37 PM
Thank you soo much Arnoud.
See you in class 5.

Heatgain
12-02-2009, 09:48 PM
Hello Arnoud,
Here come the ellipses!
First exercise/attempts, Slinky loosen up, some glasses, cups, a sort-of foreshortened pencil, loosening up:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2009/206585-IMG_0647.JPG

Next, more looseness/practice. more slinkys, done with wrist and elbow movement, a flask, a trash bin, feeling my ellipsoid way:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2009/206585-IMG_0646.JPG

This one has a failed coffee cup, a bad vase, cups, glasses, still getting familiar with ellipses:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2009/206585-IMG_0645.JPG

Then, today, I figured out why the coffee cup assignment has been so hard for me.....it's fore-shortened! Armed with that revelation, and utilizing some perspective, I came up with this:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2009/206585-IMG_0644.JPG

And finally, (thank goodness), a couple of wine glass practice sketches and a last ellipse. Pardon my bad shading, I will get to that class......eventually.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2009/206585-IMG_0648.JPG

I hope you can see these OK, I tend to sketch with a light hand. Apologies in advance if I posted too many JPG's.

arnoud3272
12-03-2009, 08:35 AM
Gary -
Your ellipses are very good :clap:. You seem to have a good eye for forms. And although these first classes are mainly concerned with the form, I'd advice you to start paying more attention to your "line quality". If you finish with tonal shading, no need yet to interpret all the lights and darks completely, but try to get it a bit smoother. Don't rush, go over it with many easy layers. A tip: letting the strokes follow the form in the first layer - slinky wise :D - helps to give it more depth. And you will hear it very often push the darks :lol:. You did very good to blend the outline into the shading, but try not to blur the outline too much.
As for "linear" finishing:
I tend to sketch with a light hand That is very good. My tip for you is when after the light exploratory strokes, you see which one is the correct one, to go over it with a decisive, expressive stroke.
You finished the assignments for this class, so move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.
As a good preparation for the higher classes, I'd strongly advice you to go a little farther than correctly sketching the forms, try to work towards a "finished" drawing :).

Heatgain
12-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Thanks, Arnoud, you've been very helpful to me, and always right on the money.
All your suggestions have improved my drawing.

mnsrc
01-08-2010, 11:40 PM
Here are my Class 4 assignments, one more finished than the other. The arrangement was drawn from life, and the wine glass is handmade and slightly tilted.

Martin
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2010/207742-Drawing_101_Assignment_4a.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2010/207742-Drawing_101_Assignment_4b.jpg

arnoud3272
01-09-2010, 04:09 AM
Martin -
These are all very good :clap::clap:.
I have no further comments, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Cinnamon2010
01-15-2010, 01:07 AM
Here is my assignment. I thought I had picked the hardest picture but was determined to do my best. After I took the picture I could see I was off a little with the tall can. It looks like I am a little high on the left top which makes it look like it is leaning.:( I don't understand, when I looked at it before I took the picture it seemed right now when I look at it it looks crooked.:confused: Should I re-do it? This one took me 4 hrs.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2010/210164-Class_4_assign1.jpg

arnoud3272
01-15-2010, 04:56 AM
Laurie -
Good work :thumbsup:.
Your ellipses are generally correct. I get the impression that you grew a bit impatient with the fixative bottle :lol:.
when I looked at it before I took the picture it seemed right now when I look at it it looks crooked That is very common :lol:. It helps to look at the drawing in a mirror, it will struck you that it leans the other way. It is good to start with drawing a faint centerline, with a ruler. It will blend in the shading or erased when finished. For the purpose of the classes, you can leave it in also.
Part of the bottle looks flat. That is because you forgot that features on the cylinder must follow the the "slinkies". In this instance in particular the text and upper edge of the label which should be curved, and the circle which should be drawn as a distorted ellipse.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jan-2010/142886-cin-Class_4_corr.jpg

It is also good to choose the direction and form of the shading strokes deliberately. Many of your strokes are straight up and down or left right, taking the easiest direction. Let your strokes follow the curvature, slinky-wise, that will enhance the "roundness".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jan-2010/142886-cin-Class_4_corr-b.jpg

Should I re-do it?
Not needed, but it would be useful to draw another simple object, e.g. a bottle, with centerline and slinkies to start with (look in the post before yours)
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

Cinnamon2010
01-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Arnoud, I really appreciate your help.:) I had drawn my vase earlier using my ruler. I went ahead and shaded using the "slinky" method and it does look more cylinder. I had missed sending my little practices so here they are..:o I am at work and have access to a scanner.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jan-2010/210164-class_4-2.jpg

arnoud3272
01-15-2010, 01:03 PM
Laurie -
Well done :clap:.
A reminder, take care not too draw the bottom ellipse with a straight part, that is a very common error :(. "It stands on a flat table, so it must be flat." ? I see it only once here, I assume it is an "accident".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jan-2010/142886-cin-class_4-corr-2.jpg

I see in the other sketches that you take the same depth for bottom and top ellipses. That is a valid approximation to guard against the error of drawing the bottom too shallow. Just remember that it no longer applies when the (vertical) distance from the EL is very different. This is a very useful exercise: take a glass or mug and move it up and down before your eyes. Observe how the ellipse changes in relation to its distance from the EL.
Nice job. Move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Samira Humaid
01-25-2010, 11:16 AM
Hi Arnoud,
Here are my assignments for Class 4. I feel I have difficulty in matching symmetry.

arnoud3272
01-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Hi Samira
I feel I have difficulty in seeing your drawings :lol:.

Samira Humaid
01-27-2010, 03:24 AM
Oops! how did that happen?:confused:. . Let me try again

arnoud3272
01-27-2010, 08:07 AM
Samira -
Well done.
Some advices to cope better with symmetry:
-- start with a (faint) centerline, drawn with a ruler. Erase later if it does not blend with the shading; you can also leave it in for the classroom.
-- look regularly at your drawing in the mirror
-- look at it upside down.

The Java cup is very well done :clap:. Correct perspective, smooth ellipses. One remark, not yet for this class, but anyway. Avoid a sloppy shading. On the cup it is well done in general, but particularly on the background. Leaving visible strokes is a valid choice of style. But don't put them at random directions - well, rather ..., don't choose the most comfortable direction :evil:. For an abstract background, consistent 45° strokes are the common way. On curved forms, the best effect is by following the form, like latitude/longitude circles on the globe.
You did fine in this class, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Samira Humaid
01-27-2010, 11:56 AM
Thank you very much for all your help and kind advice. See you in class 5.

kiffays
02-18-2010, 10:33 AM
hello arnoud,

this is my drawing for this class. :)


472736

472737

472738

472739

arnoud3272
02-18-2010, 01:40 PM
kiffays -
You were busy. This is a good bunch of sketches :clap:.
Sketching is good practice to get used to the tools. But for learning they have the same disadvantage as shorthand systems in writing. Because of the intention to work it out later, shorthand doesn't bother about spelling. Sketching poses the danger that you don't look for the correct shapes.
The top and bottom planes of cylinders are circles. Circles are perfectly smooth and symmetric. In perspective they become ellipses, but they stay smooth and symmetric, in particular they don't show pointed ends.
For instance:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2010/142886-kiffays-more_cylinders.jpg

In your drawing of the coffee pot, which is a bit more finished, the top ellipse is correctly drawn, but the symmetry of the bottom is really missing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2010/142886-kiffays-jug.jpg

I'd suggest to draw one more cylindrical object. Carefully, draw the ellipses correctly. You are progressing well, it is time now to really see what there is to draw. To "draw what you see", you need to see it first.
Don't hurry, take your time :thumbsup:.

kiffays
02-18-2010, 06:50 PM
thank you for the advice, arnoud. especially about the sketching and shorthand part. i never thought about that before. now i will take my time to draw more carefully. :)

kiffays
02-19-2010, 08:42 AM
This time it's a lamp. Shading is probably wrong though.

472832

arnoud3272
02-19-2010, 12:39 PM
kiffays -
Well done :clap:.
Shading is not too bad. It will be a bit more treated in next class, and there are higher classes wholly devoted to it (by coincidence classes 8, both 101 and 102).
The ellipses are almost correct, just a little flat at ~ 1 o'clock at the top of the lamp.
So, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

qeenbee
02-22-2010, 09:38 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0028.JPG My practice picture, just one of many.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0029.JPG images using the cylinders.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0031.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0032.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0033.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0034.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2010/120613-101_0035.JPG

I realize I needed this class. I'm glad I found it. I'm trying to take more time with each lesson. I went back to the last lesson and studied more. I am fortunate that I have the time to devote to these lessons unlike others who may have small children or work outside the home.:D

arnoud3272
02-22-2010, 04:05 PM
Bobbie -
Well done :clap:.
You got the forms correct.
Move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

m50paul
03-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Here are my calls 4 exercises :wave:

arnoud3272
03-10-2010, 07:16 AM
Paul -
In these first classes the practice is meant to lay a good foundation of craftsmanship. Drawing ellipses is one of the essential skills. It pays off to practice them diligently, don't hurry, keep looking and correcting.
Did you check the article by Mike Sibley? An ellipse is a "perfect" form, no dents or changes in curvature. Most of your ellipses seem to be sketched in a hurry. Slow down, there is no shortcut, practice, practice, practice. But take care, don't practice the same errors again.
The bottom ellipse is correct, but the top is a squashed circle, not an ellipse.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2010/142886-paul-cylinders.jpg

This is the occasion to draw your attention to the apparently counter-intuitive perspective of the cylinder. No geometry this time, take a glass or mug, look at the shape of the top rim when moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change when coming nearer to the eye level.

You did very well to start with the centerlines, but the symmetry is still off:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2010/142886-paul-glassware.jpg

Almost no one can draw a reasonably correct circle or ellipse free hand on a blank paper. But it is not so difficult to learn to see the errors on these perfect forms. Correct the first try - don't erase, that will put you back in square 1. Use the wrong line as a guide to see where the error is. Then, for a finished drawing, either erase the wrong lines or transfer to the "good" paper.

It will pay off for your future drawings to practice the ellipse a little more :thumbsup:.

P.S. A little housekeeping advice: when quoting a previous post in your reply, keep only the salient points, don't copy a long post completely, unless it is many pages away.

m50paul
03-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Arnoud,

I tried to clear up the cylinders and symmetry ... hopefully this is closer

arnoud3272
03-10-2010, 06:03 PM
Paul -
Much better :clap:.
But keep practicing ellipses and look carefully. For instance, the top here looks more an Olympic oval than an ellipse :D.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2010/142886-paul-glassrev1.jpg

Move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Steven1
03-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Hi Arnoud :wave:

I would appreciate some of your help with these drawings. I feel reasonably comfortable with ellipses (until you tell me different !) but as you will see I decide to ask 'what if ?' - the what if I went for, was to draw a cup in perspective and then try to put on the handle, also in perspective ! I can guess how to make it look near enough but there must be a better way to construct the handle so that it looks correct, i.e. so that it looks part of the cup at whatever angle it is being viewed from. Sorry to be so wordy but this has driven me mad for several hours now ....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/215697-ellipse_practice_2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/215697-ellipse_practice.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/215697-ellipse_practice_3.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/215697-ellipse_practice_4.jpg
Regards
Steven

arnoud3272
03-14-2010, 03:58 PM
Steven -
You're doing it fine :clap:.
but there must be a better way to construct the handle so that it looks correct,
Oh, you could construct a complete scaffolding, like this, but with 4 ellipses in the correct perspective, and then rounding it off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/142886-mill-line-1.jpg

But that is an overkill IMO, particularly because the correct view must come from the shading, clearly indicating that the visible part switches from the outside to the inside. In that process, your careful construction does not help, you'll do it on sight.
You've almost finished this class :thumbsup:.

Steven1
03-14-2010, 05:21 PM
Hi Arnoud :)

thanks for your help - I had started to drive myself crazy :o

Would you please have a look at these for me and let me know if I have missed anything:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/215697-ellipse_practice_5.jpg

Kind regards
Steven

arnoud3272
03-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Steven -
Very nice job :clap:.
Just one small point, something very common when only the front part of the ellipse is visible, the points at the end. An ellipse should turn around smoothly, even where it is a very fast turn.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Mar-2010/142886-steven-ellipse_practice_5.jpg
It's camouflaged in this image, but observe on the original how it straightens a bit when approaching the end, and then turns abruptly. An ellipse has a constant change of curvature.
But you did very well, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Steven1
03-14-2010, 07:06 PM
Thanks Arnoud :)

see you in Class 5

Regards
Steven:wave:

Tailspin
03-20-2010, 07:19 AM
Hello :)

The calendar has given me a long weekend and so I am hoping to get a lot of drawing time in. Heh, but I'm sure something will try to distract me.

Here are my class 4 assignments.

Slinkys. I tried these with my pencil held in both cupping and writing styles. I usually prefer writing style but for some angles cupping actually gave me more control.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Mar-2010/217014-L4-1.jpg

Mr. Cylinder and friends. The last one is not anything in particular. It's just a shape that I thought would be a good challenge to combine what I've learnt so far in this course. Hope it turned out ok.:crossfingers:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Mar-2010/217014-L4-2.jpg

Tailspin

arnoud3272
03-20-2010, 02:34 PM
Tailspin -
Well done :clap:.
Try also sometimes to draw big, you will see that it is not so simple to apply your "knowledge" in another scale :D.
You did a good job, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Tailspin
03-20-2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks Arnoud!

Sorry about the size. They are actually not so small, but I reduced them in down after scanning. I'll leave them a bit bigger from now on.

See you in class 5 :)

marie_d
03-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Hi Arnoud, my slinky's, and the initial drawing layout of the glass and the mug....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-slinkys_class_4.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-Copy_of_initial_sketches_for_glass_and_mug_class4.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-initial_sketches_for_glass_and_mug_class4.jpg

MUG ...drawing slightly out top left corner ellipse(facing). Will rectify when doing the completed drawing.

arnoud3272
03-24-2010, 03:48 PM
Marie -
You have a good understanding of the correct ellipse form :clap:.
There is one point in this class that is very counterintuitive, to wit the perspective of the cylinder. The geometry is very abstract, but fortunately there is an easy experiment that you can do every time you are in doubt. Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Apart from the bottom of the mug, you're off to a good start :thumbsup:.

marie_d
03-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Thank you for the advice Arnoud, I took another close look at the base of the mug. It didn't look right in the beginning but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Now I have spotted it...I have corrected the base where marked, and the top left corner.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-Copy_2_of_initial_sketches_for_glass_and_mug_class4.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-mug_re_do.jpg

Talking of 'lighthouses':D , here's one I did last year in one of the WDT's. As it concerns ellipses I thought it would be an approprate piece of work for here.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Mar-2010/102905-lighthouse_completed.jpg

arnoud3272
03-24-2010, 05:57 PM
Marie -
:thumbsup:

marie_d
04-06-2010, 07:03 AM
Hello Arnoud....managed to find some time to finish my glass and cup...was beginning to get withdrawal symptoms :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Apr-2010/102905-finished_class_4.jpg

Did not like the original image of the glass with the very small ice cube in the forefront so left it out. Gave a funny look to the scale, (larger objects to the forefront and smaller objects as they recede further back.) Could be a 'used' ice cube though, but I still didn't like it.:D

arnoud3272
04-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Marie -
Very nice job :clap:.
Some small remarks, to pay attention to in later work:
-- ellipses are regular forms, with a constant curvature, just as the circle. The bottom of the glass looks more as the top of a canoe, with its two points. The same effect, only not so strong, can be seen in the top ellipse of the glass. Tip: when drawing the front or back parts don't stop at the ends, always draw over them.
-- the java cup is very well rendered, but the trade mark and text are a bit out of proportion. More importantly: features on a curved plane are deformed, look at that lozenge in the reference, its sides are not straight. To distort any form, you can use modified gridding where the target grid has the desired geometrical distortion, in the case of a cylinder straight vertical and curved horizontal lines.
You did very well in this class, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

marie_d
04-06-2010, 01:35 PM
Thank you Arnoud....I see what you mean, the edges are too sharp.
See you in class 5 :thumbsup:

joetrece
04-08-2010, 02:42 PM
Here's my slinky-like thing and that beautiful key.

Thanks for looking at these.

Joe

arnoud3272
04-08-2010, 06:00 PM
Joe -
Those are not really "slinkies", they are separate ellipses - sorta. A slinky is more like a spring, the exercise is meant to loosen you up by a continuous movement. Never mind.
A thorough understanding of ellipses and the perspective of the cylinder, is very important for an illustrator. The key is nicely done, but does not show very much what you know about ellipses. So I'd like to see another exercise with a mug or a bottle or so.

joetrece
04-10-2010, 06:19 PM
Arnoud, thank you for the comments and especially for your guidance. I re-did the slinky drawing, and also did two other cylindrical objects.

Thanks again.

Joe

arnoud3272
04-11-2010, 05:50 AM
Joe -
Well done :thumbsup:. I'd suggest however to look again why the spindle of the kitchen machine seems to be pushed back :lol:. "Draw what you see"
A general remark for next lessons: until now you have only drawn the outlines. That results in flat forms. To give it volume we draw the effect of light following the 3D form. The thorough study of shadows in relation to forms is for class 8, but it is good to start already now to apply shading to your drawings intuitively. It calls for a different skill in pencil handling, so you cannot practice too much :evil:.
When you have corrected the kitchen machine, you may move on to class 5 :).

joetrece
04-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Arnoud, thank you for the excellent instruction. I feel like I'm in an actual art class, which is exactly what I need.

I wasn't sure about the spindle error you referred to in the last post, but I redrew it and checked it with a ruler. I also did some shading.

If you see more errors, please let me know.

Thanks again.

Joe

arnoud3272
04-12-2010, 02:52 AM
Joe -
Very well done :clap:.
Move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Weatherman
04-27-2010, 10:48 AM
About time to do another class. Here are the drawings for Class 4.

Einar
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2010/216509-img113.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2010/216509-DSC00580.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2010/216509-img115.jpg

arnoud3272
04-27-2010, 02:43 PM
Einar -
Very well done :clap::clap:.
I have no remarks. Please move on :thumbsup:.

Weatherman
04-28-2010, 03:23 PM
Arnoud,

Thank you !

Einar.

Frinthy
05-25-2010, 06:51 AM
There is more to come

483503

Frinthy :heart:

arnoud3272
05-25-2010, 01:30 PM
Frinthy -
That is fun :thumbsup:.
And the ellipses are correctly drawn :clap:.

Frinthy
05-26-2010, 10:19 AM
Dear Arnoud -

Please have a look at these drawings.

483628
483627
483629

Thank you, Frinthy :angel:

arnoud3272
05-26-2010, 12:44 PM
Frinthy -
Well done, the ellipses are smooth and have the correct symmetry :clap:.
There is one point in this class that is very counterintuitive, to wit the perspective of the cylinder. The geometry is very abstract, but fortunately there is an easy experiment that you can do every time you are in doubt. Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom -- on the bottle, and also on the "Java" cup
You did fine in this class, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Frinthy
05-26-2010, 02:52 PM
Arnoud -

Thank you so much, it is great to have your support. :heart:

Frinthy -
Well done, the ellipses are smooth and have the correct symmetry :clap:.
There is one point in this class that is very counterintuitive, to wit the perspective of the cylinder. The geometry is very abstract, but fortunately there is an easy experiment that you can do every time you are in doubt. Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom -- on the bottle, and also on the "Java" cup
You did fine in this class, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Sercei
05-29-2010, 09:46 PM
Here are my class 4 assignments. Thanks so much!

Some of my scans are a little small.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2010/223647-class4slinky.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2010/223647-class4elipses.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2010/223647-class4a.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2010/223647-class4b.jpg

And crooked =)
Thanks again! I'm enjoying the classes.
~Melanie~

arnoud3272
05-30-2010, 10:51 AM
Melanie -
Well done, good proportions on the ellipses :clap:.
I'd like you to consider 2 points, for a more realistic drawing:
A. In the real world, we don't see outlines, only differences in value. I've read some philosophical article that outlines are so popular because they stem from recognizing objects by touching. And touch is a more fundamental sense than vision. For realistic drawing, try not to emphasize the outline. For instance, you saw very well the cleanly delineated highlights on the vase. But IRL there is no outline, no thin region of darker value around the highlight. That brings us to the second point, a very common remark
B. push the darks
You need the contrast in order to show the structures without resorting to lines. Make the darkest places as dark as you can, and use a good range of mid tones except where there is a sharp boundary, as often with specular highlights.
The thorough treatment of light and dark is for class 8, but I think you are capable to start already paying some attention to it :)
I'd suggest to try and improve the vase in that aspect, it is a very nice example that would gain from better contrasts.

Sercei
05-31-2010, 11:22 AM
Thanks so much for your help Arnoud. I see that my pictures are very light even after reading many of your comments to others to "push the darks." It seems to be pretty common for us beginners.

I went darker on my hurricane glass. I should have waited until I could set it up like I did when I drew it the first time because the shadows and highlights were different this time so I just shaded by memory. My shading needs lots of work but I think it looks much better than the first attempt.

Thank you again!
Melanie

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-May-2010/223647-hurricaneglass3.jpg

arnoud3272
05-31-2010, 02:47 PM
Congratulations Melanie, this is very well done :clap::clap:. It is a big improvement, it could serve as an example why it is so important to use the complete range of values.
Very nice, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Artra
06-06-2010, 06:01 PM
I am finding these classes very helpful, if a little frustrating. :o This one was no exception.

Symmetry it seems, is my bet n' noir, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again :)

Artra
06-06-2010, 06:09 PM
Hi Frinthy,
Have to say I like your style :D
I particularly liked the hoola-hoop figure - great!

arnoud3272
06-07-2010, 04:31 AM
Grace -
Nice job. You did rather well in general with the symmetry. Using a centerline as you did is a great help. And checking your drawing upside down, or looking at its reflection in a mirror - squarely, to avoid perspective distortion - is also very useful. Not just for the ellipses, for any subject.
Two remarks:
-- an ellipse is a circle in perspective, it is by mathematical definition a perfectly smooth form. In particular, avoid the pointed ends, as at the bottom of the coffee mug.
-- on the perspective of the cylinder: same remark as in post #62 above.
I think it would be useful to redo the coffee mug, just the correct outlines. Then I see you in class 5 :thumbsup:.

Artra
06-07-2010, 05:45 PM
Hi Arnoud :)

Thanks for the review, much appreciated. I see what you mean re the cylinder. In fact, I realized it was wrong whenever I posted it last time.

Understanding is one thing however, transferring that to paper is quite another. I ended up by trying to shut my 'over-thinking it' off and just drawing what I saw, and so drew the coffee first, :lol:

If this is passable, I'll move on to Class 5. Btw, thanks forgiving me those pointers for working out symmetry, they do help!

arnoud3272
06-07-2010, 05:58 PM
Grace -
The first error you corrected very well: your ellipse is much smoother now, no pointy ends :clap:.
And then there is always a "but" :D. Did you actually run the exercise explained above, in post #62? The error is even more pronounced now. Don't worry, more than half of the population has it wrong, it seems to be extremely counter-intuitive :lol:. Which ellipse is more like a circle, near the EyeLevel, or away of it?

Artra
06-07-2010, 11:57 PM
Me again :o

I am determined to get this right. I did read post #62 but (and there's that but again) I thought of it as both curves were below eye level so the top ellipse would be more like a circle. I know, I know, my thinking is backwards, my hubby tells me that all the time. :lol:

Anyway, I hope this is right so I can move on - looks a bit better to me but only a bit. Thanks for your patience and your sense of humor.:D

Artra
06-08-2010, 12:00 AM
Drat! Now I see it on screen I see those pointed corners again - trust me it's only the shading giving that impression. Cough Cough.

arnoud3272
06-08-2010, 02:26 AM
Grace -
A bit sloppy, but correct in principle :clap:.
The solution for the perspective of the cylinder is to look for the relative distance to the eye level. It is counter-intuitive, so don't hesitate to take a glass and move it up and down.
Well done, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Artra
06-10-2010, 06:22 PM
Thanks Arnoud :)

Feeling a little fragile after this class but will persevere :D

LeonieL
06-12-2010, 06:23 AM
Hi.
a few months ago I did the other classes. (one two and three)
So I'll start here again, if it's possible.

ellips study.
The others were to light, I couldn't place them.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/201217-cilinder.jpg

my bottle
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/201217-flesje.jpg

my coffeecup. This one was to hard for me...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/201217-koffiekop.jpg

The key.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/201217-sleutel.jpg

And for now, the last one.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/201217-wijnglas.jpg

Greets, LeonieL
thanks for helping me

arnoud3272
06-12-2010, 07:41 AM
Leonie -
Nice job :clap:.
It is in general a good idea to look a bit at recent discussions in the thread. Some problems are common for many beginners. The main 2 problems of this class, discussed many times, are also difficult for you.
A. Ellipses are smooth curves, just as the circle. In fact, mathematically speaking, the circle is a special case of the ellipse. So, avoid the pointed ends, like here:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jun-2010/142886-leonie-glass.jpg

Look at your slinkies, the turns do not close, but observe how smoothly they move around the ends.

B. The perspective of the cylinder. I like very much how you constructed the perspective in the theoretical sketches :clap:. But then you lost it when applying to a concrete object :(. This is a very instructive exercise, repeat it every time you're in doubt:
Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom on the "Java" cup.
When you've corrected the cup, you're ready for class 5 :thumbsup:.

CharlieD
07-13-2010, 08:09 AM
Exercise 1

CharlieD
07-13-2010, 08:50 AM
Glass (Rough)

Edited to add refined sketch of glass

CharlieD
07-13-2010, 10:07 AM
Still Life from previous practice seession.

arnoud3272
07-13-2010, 03:11 PM
Charlie -
Well done :).
Two common problems in this class are
A. An ellipse is a smooth form by definition, exactly as the circle. Try not to draw it as a canoe. Be particular careful at the bottom ellipse:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jul-2010/142886-charlie-creamer.JPG

B. Perspective :evil: of the cylinder:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jul-2010/142886-charlie-glass.JPG

It is exactly the other way round!
If in doubt, don't try geometry, but take a glass or mug, move it up and down before your eyes and take note of the direction in which the top rim changes with the distance from the eye level.

On a general note, I'd advice to try and explore other styles than outline with cross-hatching.
Good job, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Maggie_M
07-17-2010, 10:13 PM
Here are my drawings based on the cylinder.

arnoud3272
07-18-2010, 05:48 AM
Maggie -
Very nice job :clap::clap:.
I like how you started to blend the outlines into the shading :thumbsup:. I think on a few places on the cup, the outline is still a bit too harsh for a realistic drawing. But otherwise, you did very well, move on to class 5 :music:.

Maggie_M
07-18-2010, 12:29 PM
Thanks Arnoud. I had a good time doing these drawings.

silvabl
07-30-2010, 07:30 AM
Here are my class 4 sketches
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2010/230937-IMG_0088.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2010/230937-IMG_0089.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2010/230937-IMG_0090.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2010/230937-IMG_0091.JPG

silvabl
07-30-2010, 07:32 AM
Is it just me or did my pics not upload?

arnoud3272
07-30-2010, 03:02 PM
Brian -
The site is in the course of a big migration, many things do not work. BTW, many pictures that were uploaded last week or so don't show either :(.
So wait and :crossfingers:.

silvabl
08-01-2010, 02:37 PM
I'm trying to attach files so I hope this works. :crossfingers: Class 4 drawings

arnoud3272
08-01-2010, 05:00 PM
Brian -
Looks good :clap:.
Just remember that our eyes are very sensitive to imperfections in a circle or ellipse. The top of the coffee mug shows a few bumps and flats. A pity because that's exactly where you chose a more realistic rendering. The ellipses on the wine glass are much better :).
You are ready for class 5 :thumbsup:.

silvabl
08-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Thanks arnoud. I notice exactly what you mentioned in the mug. When looking at it I thought it looked pretty good but something was off. Thank you for pointing it out. I never would have gotten that otherwise. I will move on to class 5. I actually already have some eye drawings that I did a week ago for fun and practice. I will post these first.

I also have a WIP that I posted today and I would love to hear what you think about it. Here's the link http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=635001

The last, most complete drawing is where I lose confidence to continue. If you have any advice, along with the other's advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks :wave:

Marie-réunion
08-21-2010, 08:34 AM
Hi arnoud, here are my sketches on ellipse
exercise 1 :
520761520771

2 - concret objects :
520781
520791

arnoud3272
08-21-2010, 06:04 PM
Marie-Noelle -
Good job :clap:.
The sketched ellipses are rather sloppy, but you know how to draw them correctly when taking your time .
One remark though. Your representation of the "foreshortening" is not always consistent. On some objects it is correctly done, but in other places, like here, it's the opposite way:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Aug-2010/142886-marie-corr.jpg

Still it is easy to see:
Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom.
You managed very well, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Marie-réunion
08-22-2010, 02:11 AM
Thank arnoud, I notice what you said. I'm going to draw more ellipses for doing them better.

muvs32
09-03-2010, 05:00 PM
I have been working on cylinders as part of my project to do some vacation, light house pics for my family. I have done a good bit of the studies suggested as wellhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/228972-drawings_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/228972-coffee_mug_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/228972-pitchewr_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/228972-slinkies_001.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/228972-l_h_drawing_001.jpg sorry for the extra large images

arnoud3272
09-03-2010, 06:07 PM
muvs -
Good job.
Only crit is that you made the same 2 errors as the pupil before you, see my comments in post #93, and the one before that, post #82, and the one before that, post #78, etc. :evil:.
As said in the introduction to this classroom, look up a few previous comments, it saves us from the broken record syndrome :D.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Sep-2010/142886-muvs-coffee_mug-corr.jpg

Apart from that, you did very well, you may move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

renzolw
09-20-2010, 01:58 AM
Hello,

Here is my assignment for this class.

arnoud3272
09-20-2010, 05:24 AM
Renzo -
Good job :clap:.
Your ellipses are well formed, and there are no big errors in their foreshortening. The top ellipse of the bottle is a tad too deep, if you look intensely the neck seems to lean forward :D. But for the others, and in particular on the glass, you saw the different depths very well.
I also like how you treats the outlines in a more realist way :thumbsup:.
Move on to class 5 :music:.

beachcomber99
10-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Here is a drawing for lesson 4. I am soo happy because I figured out how to get my scanner to scan the whole picture.:clap:

arnoud3272
10-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Theresa -
Very nice :clap:.
You clearly understands the cylindric form, although most of this drawing is cubic :lol:. But the perspective is very good :thumbsup:.
I see your style tends to be tonal, rather than linear. In that case it is time for you to learn the D & S mantra: push the darks. It is possibly a scanner artifact, in that case consult this article (http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823) in the "Tips&Tricks" section.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Oct-2010/142886-theresa-ellipse-corr.JPG

It should even be darker in parts, but I couldn't without introducing a blotchy effect.

beachcomber99
10-08-2010, 09:53 AM
Thanks Arnoud: I read back through some posts on this lesson and saw what you have told others about pushing the darks. I will keep working on that. Also, my last picture was a bit faded out by the scanner. Thanks for letting me know how I can fix that. I don't have photo shop, but my photo program can adjust contrast.
-Theresa

arnoud3272
10-08-2010, 10:10 AM
Theresa -
:thumbsup:.
I forgot to add that you are ready to move on to class 5.

beachcomber99
10-08-2010, 01:28 PM
Ty!

cathartic creativity
10-17-2010, 09:51 PM
here is my class 4 drawings. I know the coffee cup/wine glass are rough sketches, but i was getting frustrated at my lack of getting these ellipses right. So I thought I'd get your input before continuing :)

570131

grrr...its not letting me attach the second picture!! :envy: Here is the direct link to my flickr site....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bullpoop04/5091969506/sizes/z/in/photostream/

arnoud3272
10-18-2010, 03:12 PM
cathar -
I copied your second image here. There should be no problem. It could be a "glitch", such things happen, retry a bit later.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2010/142886-cathar-cup.jpg

but i was getting frustrated at my lack of getting these ellipses right. There is really no reason. Of course, they are not perfect, but you avoided already the most prevalent error, the pointed ends that make it look more a canoe than an ellipse.
Don't get frustrated, patience and diligent practice :thumbsup:. But don't rush, we are not in competition, it is of no use to try and force things, take it easy :).
There is one observation for you before you "finish" the cup. It is theory, not skill. Almost all beginners, and a lot of not so beginners, draw the relative depths of the top and bottom ellipses the wrong way. Apparently it is counterintuitive, but there is a simple exercise to check for yourself if in doubt:
Take a glass or mug, look at the shape of the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe where the ellipse becomes shallower, farther away or nearer to the eye level.
You are doing well really, acquiring any skill takes time.
:wave:

cathartic creativity
10-18-2010, 09:57 PM
OK, I'll try to be more patient!!

I've read in this thread over and over about doing that test of tipping the glass up and down, and I noticed how it changed...but didn't help my drawing :( So, would you like me to draw these more finished?

arnoud3272
10-19-2010, 05:44 AM
I've read in this thread over and over about doing that test of tipping the glass up and down, and I noticed how it changed... OK, but it is important to apply that knowledge to your drawing. The top ellipse (near the EyeLevel) is shallower than the bottom one (farther away). In your drawing of the cup it is without doubt the other way round.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Oct-2010/142886-cathar-cup-corr.jpg

On the glass and bottle you drew the 2 ellipses the same, which is a valid rule of thumb as long as the point of view is not extreme :thumbsup:.
I'd like to see a corrected drawing of the cup; the amount of shading is OK as you did, "really" finished drawings are for later classes :).

LittleBear
11-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Hi all :wave: ,
I started this classroom series several months ago but never finished. I hope it's alright if I pick up again where I left off.

arnoud3272
11-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Alex -
Welcome back :).
This is very nice :clap:. The ellipses are correctly formed and the directional hatching is very effective in modeling :thumbsup:. I'd have liked a bit more contrast, it looks rather washed out. Particularly if I compare with your entries in the previous class.
But I'll admit that it is not yet important in the lower classes. You did a good job, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

LittleBear
11-29-2010, 01:49 PM
Thank you, Arnoud. :)
You are right about being washed out, I forgot to correct the scanned images before posting. Will fix for class 5. :)
Alex

iqaluit
12-04-2010, 06:26 PM
Some of my initial attempts at class 4, Oh you crazy Ellipse how you baffle me. I had some issue with the proportion of the mug, it looks a little longer than it should be. Looking forward to your commentshttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2010/216117-class4.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2010/216117-class4a.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2010/216117-class4b.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2010/216117-class4c.jpg

arnoud3272
12-05-2010, 05:19 AM
iqaluit -
Good job :clap:. Correct ellipses and a nice start on suggesting the forms with shades.
One remark: when you choose a more realistic shading, not just suggesting, e.g. with hatching, try to avoid unnecessary outlines. For example in your drawing of the mug, some outlines are flattening the form again:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Dec-2010/142886-iqaluit-mug.jpg

It is a matter of unity of style: either outlines with only accents of shading, or only flat colours between, as in comics, or "realistic" shading without emphasized edges. In fact, we don't see outlines in nature, only different values of light and dark. The outlines are made up in out minds, it is interpretation.
You did very well, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

iqaluit
12-05-2010, 08:21 AM
Thanks Arnoud, I know I go a little crazy with the outlines, old habit. :)

EJN
12-07-2010, 01:44 PM
I am back :wave:

EJN
12-07-2010, 02:34 PM
More

arnoud3272
12-07-2010, 02:50 PM
Elena -
Truly well done :clap:. Nice smooth ellipses.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

EJN
12-09-2010, 11:16 AM
Thank you Arnoud Moving on to next lessonhttp://yoursmileys.ru/msmile/fun/m0136.gif (http://yoursmileys.ru/m-fun.php?page=2)

newkidontheblock
01-02-2011, 08:08 PM
Hi, doing all these exercies has certainly made a big improvement in my work, even though I am new to it all.
I do have trouble with proportions, as you can see.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2011/500681-4cylinders1.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2011/500681-4cyinders2.JPG
Coffee pot proportions are no where near correct. Also I dont know how to shade!! Thnx Lyn

newkidontheblock
01-02-2011, 08:13 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2011/500681-4cylinder3.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2011/500681-4cylinders4.JPG

Arnoud, should I be measuring objects to get more accuracy with proportions- or photograph the object and compare to my sketch? What do you suggest to help me improve?
Thanks heaps, Lyn

newkidontheblock
01-02-2011, 08:18 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2011/500681-P1050111.JPG
Have I pushed the darks enough? I have used a 4B, does that help? To get the whiteness, I assume I leave the white paper showing?
Thanks so much, Lyn

arnoud3272
01-03-2011, 05:13 AM
Lyn -
Very nice job :clap:.
You draw very smooth ellipses. The vertical edges have a tendency to fall over. To guard against that, and also to improve the proportions, start with very light lines, then step back and check. You can also turn the drawing upside down, or look at it in the mirror (holding the drawing against your chest). A (bit boring) exercise to improve judging the proportions is to draw squares and rectangles in different proportions (1:2, 2:3, and the famous "golden ratio", about 1:1.6). First drawing, then checking; no need to have neat straight sides, the proportion is what counts.
Your shading is already very good for this level of the classes. We first treat the basic forms, shading will be handled in detail in class 8 :).
Well done, move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

newkidontheblock
01-03-2011, 07:11 AM
Thanks Anoud for those ideas. I will certainly be giving them a go. I actually cant believe how much I have improved in drawing in just a few days. Just goes to show that doing these exercises and accompanying practice does wonders :) Lyn

inkslinger427
02-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Here's some cylindrical (sorta') stuff. and some "slinky art" (sorta').
Man, I knew that shell would be a *&$##@%^&, but good golly I
shoulda' picked a diffrent victim. :evil: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2011/556291-STILL_A_BALL.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2011/556291-HELL_OF_A_SHELL.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2011/556291-WIGGLES1.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2011/556291-SQUIGGLES_2.JPG
Well, there we have it. :crossfingers:

arnoud3272
02-19-2011, 04:10 AM
Tim -
Good job :thumbsup:.
You seem to understand the subject matter of this class very well. Just stay attentive, it is difficult to avoid the "pointy" ends (at A).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2011/142886-tim-corr.JPG

For a more general advice, try to treat the outlines in a consistent style. In your first drawing, some are merged into the shading (B), consistent with a style leaning to realism, some are typical for a linear style (C) but then the "line quality" is very important, one of the conventions is to use thin lines for the outline of light planes, and thick for shadowed ones. And at D the outline does not add information, the shading tells already all.
You did very well in this class, Move on to the next :thumbsup:.

inkslinger427
02-19-2011, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the awesome input Arnoud! when not doing a structured, finished drawing I do have a tendency to do what ever pops in my head, I'll try to do better at that. someone gave me some hard charcol pencils and thats what I used on the drawing, and I've never used them before. Don't erase worth a darn! look at the shell again and see if you can't find the sand flea! Thanks again, and i hope this day brings you all you can stand of everything you want! Peace!!

kreativekate
03-06-2011, 06:29 AM
Oh Arnoud, I can't believe it! I have done so much hard work on these that I am posting but I just realised that I think I went too many classes ahead- did I do Class 3? Oh Lord, I think I am out of my depth.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-cylinder_shapes.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-slinkies.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-coffee_cup.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-icy_drink.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-jug.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2011/202891-Man_manneqin.jpg
I will go back to class 3-

arnoud3272
03-06-2011, 10:23 AM
Kate -
Well done.
Only a very specific remark on the subject of this class is what a teacher of mine used to call "freehand perspective". Almost all beginners, and even many seasoned artists, draw the relative depths of the top and bottom ellipses the wrong way. Apparently it is counterintuitive, but there is a simple exercise to check for yourself if in doubt:
Take a glass or mug, look at the shape of the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe where the ellipse becomes shallower, farther away or nearer to the eye level.
Drawing top and bottom equally deep is a good rule of thumb when the vertical distance to the eye level is not extremely different. That's how the glass with ice cubes reference is drawn (a photo would show different ellipses).
I will go back to class 3- No worries :thumbsup:

Magdalena Ladwik
05-07-2011, 06:47 AM
Hello Arnoud, there are my class 4 assignments. Please review it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-May-2011/952977-2.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-May-2011/952977-1.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-May-2011/952977-sun.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-May-2011/952977-glass.JPG (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Uploader/upload_image_save2.php#)

Thank You!
Magdalena

arnoud3272
05-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Magdalena -
Well done, nice job :clap::clap:. The ellipses are well formed, nice and smooth. You reached a very good level for this class :thumbsup:. So, move on to class 5 :music:.

Magdalena Ladwik
05-07-2011, 12:32 PM
Thank You Arnoud and see You in class 5!

Sandra39
05-15-2011, 09:09 PM
Hi Arnoud;
Just got these done today. Not quite happy but will let them go anyway. It's getting to be time issue. Hope these are alright with you.
Thanks in advance.

Sandi C.

arnoud3272
05-16-2011, 02:58 PM
Sandi - Very well done :clap:. The ellipses are nice and smooth, and the drawings are carefully rendered. There is one weak point, in something that seems to be counterintuitive, as almost everyone errs on it:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2011/142886-sandi.JPG

You made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom, not very much, but consistently.
Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature, it is exactly the opposite.

You did really well in this class, please move on :thumbsup:.

Sandra39
05-16-2011, 03:23 PM
Thanks Arnoud for your through review. You are a good teacher with sharp eyes and gentle critique. I admire your patience to do this job for us.
See you in class 5.

Sandi c.

maisygrrl
06-10-2011, 03:22 PM
I did these here and there over the past week or so but was feeling a bit under the weather for a while and didn't get them onto the computer until today.

I'm finding this class quite challenging so far. I have a lot of difficulty with ellipses -- even the constructed ones I did following the linked tutorial gave me quite a bit of trouble. I think by the time I drew the cups I was forgetting to check to see if they made sense geometrically -- I'll make sure to check that in the ones I do next.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-03-constructed-cylinders-01-resized.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-03-constructed-cylinders-02-resized.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-04-slinkies-resized.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-04-cylinders-resized.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-09-cups-resized.jpg

maisygrrl
06-10-2011, 10:37 PM
Okay, that glass on the left has been driving me nuts ever since I posted it -- I had another go at it with the lower curves not so flattened out:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2011/968565-2011-06-10-glass2ndtry-resized.jpg

arnoud3272
06-11-2011, 03:18 AM
Daisy - Very well done :clap:. You were dedicated. Good understanding of the cylindrical form. Very good of you to correct that bottom ellipse :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 5 :music:.

RVT
06-18-2011, 09:08 PM
Thanks for your time and comments. Here is my class 4 homework.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2011/962581-IMG_2924.JPG

arnoud3272
06-19-2011, 05:29 AM
RVT - Nicely done :clap:.
In cubic forms, perspective errors are very conspicuous, in cylindrical forms one should pay particular attention to the ellipse: it is a smooth form - naturally, as it is derived from a circle - no bumps, no pointed ends.
A second remark concerns a very common error - probably many people will consider the correct form wrong. That is the perspective of the cylinder. However, no geometrics here, that is too abstract.
Take a glass or mug, look at the shape of the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe where the ellipse becomes shallower, farther away or nearer to the eye level. You drew the top ellipse of the flower pot with a much deeper curvature than the bottom.
Drawing top and bottom equally deep is a good rule of thumb when the vertical distance to the eye level is not extremely different. That's how the glass with ice cubes reference is drawn (a photo would show different ellipses).
:thumbsup:

RVT
06-19-2011, 10:51 AM
Thanks. I will redo the flower pot.

arnoud3272
06-19-2011, 01:04 PM
:thumbsup:

RVT
06-20-2011, 11:15 AM
Flower pot: class 4 homework.
Thanks.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2011/962581-IMG_2927.JPG

arnoud3272
06-20-2011, 03:31 PM
RVT - Very much improved :clap:. Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

ArtbyPeggy
10-06-2011, 03:38 AM
My ellipses are crooked and no matter how much I straighten them, they are still crooked :lol: but here are my assignments.:crossfingers:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2011/977655-exercise004.jpg:crossfingers:

arnoud3272
10-06-2011, 07:44 AM
Peggy - Good job, you work very dedicated :thumbsup:.
My ellipses are crooked and no matter how much I straighten them, Oh well, ellipses should have no straight sections :lol:. But I understand what you mean. Some are rather well, for instance the top of the wine glass. Drawing smooth ellipses takes a lot of practice. The most important point is to see that they are wrong. Some pointers: start to draw them as you do the slinkies, but at the same place, some of the slinkies are very smooth. Then correct without erasing, the wrong lines will guide you, as I said seeing the errors is very important. When satisfied erase the thick lines.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2011/142886-ellipse-1.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Oct-2011/142886-ellipse-2.jpg
Use the same method for circles, after all a circle is a special case of ellipse, mathematically speaking. That is the subject of class 5 :thumbsup:.

Gingerbread
10-23-2011, 09:47 PM
Hi, Arnoud.

Below is the slinky exercise and the wine glass. Thanks in advance for your c&cs.

:)

Jennifer

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Oct-2011/978288-Class4_Slinky.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Oct-2011/978288-Class4_Wine_Glass.jpg

arnoud3272
10-24-2011, 06:57 AM
Jennifer - Well done. Good eye for the correct form :clap:.

Gingerbread
10-24-2011, 07:34 PM
Hi Arnoud,
Great, thank you. Attached is my coffee mug.

:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Oct-2011/978288-Class4_Mug_Seahorse_2.JPG

arnoud3272
10-25-2011, 05:39 AM
Jennifer - Well done :clap:. The top is slightly askew, but otherwise it is correctly interpreted.
You understand the cylinder very well, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Gingerbread
10-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Great thanks. :)

latedrawer
11-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Your drawing tasks are great challenges! After practicing drawing ellipses, I set up 4 drinking glasses at different levels. Three--which have different line designs--are sitting on shelves at different levels and the fourth is resting on the table. All are transparent.
I really had to work at getting the angles on the cabinet in perspective, but I'm not sure. I did check with a ruler using EL and VP but it doesn't look quite right to me. The glasses seem to be "resting" on the shelves correctly. I may have over-analyzed how to make the ellipses open more as they were lower and lower. I decided I really needed to check in before doing any more drawing:crossfingers:

This sketch is an example of some of my studies of ellipses and slinky.
694215
In this sketch, I used a template like the video tutorial suggested and drew a shallow can.
694214
And this sketch is an example of my studies in drawing cylinders in different relationships to eye level. I can send you more if you want to see them.
694216
The final study for this post is of four drinking glasses at different levels.
694217
After I get your comments, I'll post sketches of bottles in different shapes.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PROVIDING THIS SUPPORT:clap:
Carole

arnoud3272
11-14-2011, 05:47 PM
Carole - Nice job, you're very dedicated :thumbsup:. The ellipse studies are very good :clap:. Keep it up.
As to the perspective problem of the cabinet, there are two minor errors.
A. The right "VP" is far enough that you can leave the edges parallel, but they should never diverge.
Further away never looks larger :lol:.
B. (To the left) All lines that belong to the same set of parallel lines converge to the same VP. The shelves (red VL's) run parallel to the top (blue VL's), they should share the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Nov-2011/142886-carole-glasses-corr.jpg

Which will not look nice. It means that the chosen perspective is too extreme. I'd choose a compromise between the VP of the shelves and the VP of the top; i.e. mainly correcting the rightmost edge (much higher EL).
:wave:

latedrawer
11-14-2011, 09:13 PM
Arnoud, thank you for your critique. I'm attaching a drawing showing corrections to the little cabinet. I shifted the eye level off the paper and set up a higher EL and different VP. Although the drawing now looks more correct, I think I'm still confused about how to designate an Eye Level on the paper for a still life I've set up. This setup was about 3 feet away.

Should I be further away from this size of "still life"? I thought the one I originally chose on the other drawing seemed appropriate for the glasses, but I had to "force" cabinet lines to a VP on it. So I do understand your point. It's just that the higher eye level on the drawing below seems too high for the glasses. :confused::confused:

694222

arnoud3272
11-15-2011, 03:09 PM
Carole - Well done.
I think I'm still confused about how to designate an Eye Level When drawing from RL, you don't make up the eye level. The eye level is - literally - determined by the position of your head (eye). So you choose a pleasing EL, it is part of the "design". But during drawing you must take care not to shift :(. In academic training in accurate drawing, they used some fixed point over which to view the object, a bit like aiming a gun :lol:.
It's just that the higher eye level on the drawing below seems too high for the glasses. Two comments:
-- perhaps a little, but not much if I try it out IRL, in fact the EL in the first version is too low IMO.
-- generally make sure the sensitive forms (rectangular forms) have the correct structure. Few people will observe minor perspective errors in round / complex forms.

You're doing very well :thumbsup:.

latedrawer
11-15-2011, 06:47 PM
Arnoud, thank you for the helpful comments. Here is another class project, a drawing of four bottles. I tried including some shading, shadows, and lines indicating the ground plane. Carole
694236

arnoud3272
11-16-2011, 05:15 AM
Carole - Very nice :clap:. You did very well in this class, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

Jelleau
11-19-2011, 03:50 PM
Here are my practice sketches for this class

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2011/980243-slinky_800x583.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2011/980243-cylinders_800x583.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Nov-2011/980243-mug_800x583.jpg

arnoud3272
11-20-2011, 07:02 AM
Gabriela - Good job :clap:. Correct forms, you are ready with this class.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

Jelleau
11-20-2011, 07:38 AM
Thank you Arnoud you're the best :)

muldi
12-20-2011, 12:36 PM
Arnoud, This was harder for me than expected but I learned a lot! The mug does not look quite right to me. The handle to mug looks off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/215828-P1000309.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/215828-P1000311.JPG
This one was my rough for the object. I ended up adjusting it some for the final:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/215828-P1000306.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/215828-P1000313.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/215828-P1000316.JPG

arnoud3272
12-20-2011, 04:09 PM
Diane - Good job :clap:.
Ellipses are not easy, one needs a lot of studious effort. Two common errors on the form:
-- drawing an oval instead of an ellipse

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/142886-diane-glass-corr.JPG

-- drawing pointy ends, particularly when only the front of the ellipse is visible. Draw the complete ellipse In the preliminary sketch.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2011/142886-diane-mug-corr.JPG

And then the third error:
Almost all beginners err on the perspective of the cylinder. But here you don't need complicated geometry :). Learn it - and repeat this when in doubt later - in real life. Take a glass or mug, observe the top rim while moving the glass up and down before your eyes. Note the different width of the ellipse on the high and low positions. And - very important - where is it at its narrowest? Then look at your mug drawing :(.

Rule of thumb: if the vertical distances from eye level to top and bottom are not very different, it is OK to make two identical ellipses.

muldi
12-20-2011, 10:05 PM
Arnoud, Thanks VERY much for the comments. Most helpful. I will correct the two drawings and re-post them.
Diane

arnoud3272
12-21-2011, 05:35 AM
:thumbsup:

muldi
12-21-2011, 01:52 PM
Arnoud, Here are the two drawings I corrected. They are not as 'finished' as I would like.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Dec-2011/215828-P1000319.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Dec-2011/215828-P1000320.JPG
The mug rim could be better. I still don't like it's symmetry. Do you want me to work on it some more?
Thanks, Diane

arnoud3272
12-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Well done, Diane :clap:.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

wendyc1276
12-26-2011, 05:00 PM
Here are a few of the studies

First, the slinkies:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Dec-2011/201691-week4slinkys.jpg Then I doodled some objects to practice ellipses:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Dec-2011/201691-week4items.jpg Then the line drawing for that key....will do some refinement and shading before moving on to more objects.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Dec-2011/201691-week4key.jpg Thanks for any feedback! Hope you are having a great holiday!

wendyc1276
12-27-2011, 08:11 AM
Here is the finished key.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Dec-2011/201691-finishedKey.jpg

arnoud3272
12-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Very well done, Wendy :clap:.
You understand the cylindrical forms well, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

jrl11528
01-07-2012, 08:47 PM
Arnoud-
After a long delay, here are some preliminary exercises and a more finished drawing for lesson 4.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2012/979730-exercise.jpg I now see that there is a sharp corner in the center jug, but I took that to work to scan and don't have the paper here to modify it.

Here is the wine glass:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2012/979730-wineglass.jpg This is all new to me, so each lesson I am also trying to learn shapes and values and trying all the things I am reading about in these forums. Thank you again for the time and effort that you devote to helping us newbies:)
Jim

arnoud3272
01-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Jim - Well done :clap:.
I'm a bit late due to Wetcanvas technical hiccups :lol:.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

Karshia
01-11-2012, 01:03 PM
I've been absent for far too long. Back for some serious learning. Thank you!

arnoud3272
01-11-2012, 05:39 PM
Well done, Katie :clap:.
You understand this subject matter correctly, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

P.S. I hope you read this before the software gremlins delete my post :(.

Jim - In case you did not read my comments in time, well done also. I'll welcome you in class 5 :thumbsup:.

astropaint
01-31-2012, 08:48 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Happy New Year!!! I have been busy with some project deadlines at work. I did complete the assignments in December but didn't get the chance to take the pictures and upload here. Please review my four assignments for this class and provide your kind feedback. Thanks in advance for all your help!

astropaint
01-31-2012, 08:50 AM
Hi Arnoud,

In addition to the assigments for this class, I wanted to do one still life. I made sure that the objects are cylinderical. I also wanted to take this opportunity to study values - light and shade.

After I completed values on the left most bottle, I realized I was not getting this right, I was frustrated and left the composition as it is for many days. Then I gathered a lot of information online, here at wetcanvas and watched some demos on youtube. I know that I still have to go a long way but here is what I have done. I would sincerely appreciate if you could provide your critique so that I can make improvements in tonal values as I go along the remaining classes.

Thank you very much.

arnoud3272
01-31-2012, 03:16 PM
astro - The assignments for this class are very well executed :clap::clap:.
On your still life: there is a good variety of shades, you have the basic skills in pencil handling.
The basics of lights and shadows are treated in class 8, so only some general remarks here. The glass is very well rendered, you correctly observed the transparency and hard-edged reflections :clap:. The texture of the bottles (flasks ?) is less clear. One thing that disturbs me is the location of the light. The cast shadows of the bottles run quite different than that from the glass. Also, the lights on the two bottles run against each other ?
But of course, you did very well in this class, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

astropaint
02-01-2012, 09:00 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Thanks for your valuable feedback. I have a studio light that I placed it on the left of the objects. So the light falls from the top left side. This is my first still life with glass objects. There were too many highlights going on on the objects that confused me as you can see in the left most bottle. It made me disappointed that I couldn’t even distinguish the lights and darks. I would appreciate if you could guide me with the lights and darks in the photo I attached here (my still life). I know that the left most bottle is totally wrong but guide me with what you see. I understand that this class does not address lights and shadows but your critique would help me improve as I do my assignments for the next class.

Thanks in advance for all your help!

arnoud3272
02-01-2012, 03:21 PM
astro -
A. If you look carefully, you'll see that the cast shadows run all in the same direction, which is only logical.
B. The left bottle is extremely difficult, because it is no clear but translucent glass. On top of that there is a strong reflected light from the other bottle. Although a bit formulaic, there is the "rule" to keep the reflected light darker than the "real" light. Because it is confusing otherwise.
I've cranked up the contrast in your ref photo so you can better see that it is best to locate the stronger light on the left side of the bottles.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/01-Feb-2012/142886-Bottles-Glass-anal.JPG

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

astropaint
02-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Thank you so very much! This is very very helpful. Just one more question - you mentioned in your previous feedback that the texture of the bottles is less clear in my drawing. Did you mean that they do not appear to be glass bottles? They could be steel, or plastic. How do I make the texture to look like a glass, steel or plastic? Again, thank you very much!!!

arnoud3272
02-02-2012, 01:50 PM
astro - Many elaborate tutorials exist on realizing textures. Just 2 examples from members of this community - incidentally authors of some advanced classes here.
-- A complete book (http://www.jdhillberry.com/book.htm) :thumbsup:
-- A large chapter (http://www.sibleyfineart.com/pencil-drawing-book.htm) in a book on realistic drawing.

Some general guidelines:
-- texture is tactile: feel it, then use your pencil handling in accordance with the feel: when rough, use a rough manner - within limits of course; when smooth, handle your pencil very softly.
-- use the difference in lights: shining surfaces have strong contrasts, dull ones have very gradated grays, very dull have almost no highlights.
:wave:

astropaint
02-02-2012, 04:16 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Thank you very much. As you can see I am totally new to the drawing world. I do not know the technical terms. Hence I ask silly questions. Thank you for the reference material.:) See you in the next class.

lisaastrup
02-20-2012, 12:55 PM
Hi Arnoud.

here is my cylinder:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2012/79005-cylinder.jpg

and some extra drawings... I hope I can move on to next class :wave:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2012/79005-kugle+kegle.jpg

arnoud3272
02-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Lisa - OK, move on to the next class :thumbsup:.

lisaastrup
02-21-2012, 12:25 PM
Hi Arnoud.

I made one more, can't get it right, have erased a lot, can't find out how to
make it right :eek:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2012/79005-cup.jpg

arnoud3272
02-21-2012, 05:05 PM
Lisa -
can't find out how to make it right
In such cases it is good to know the theoretical background. I see 2 issues:
-- it can be mathematically proven, and that was already in the very first treatise on perspective (anno 1435), that the circle in perspective is a perfect ellipse.
In particular the major axis lies exactly in the center. Not nearer to the observer as you drew it. -- But not farther away either as you will often read.
-- a very common error in the perspective of the cylinder is to flatten the bottom. That is drawing what you think it should be - after all, it stands on a flat table, doesn't it? An exercise that is mentioned many times in this class:
Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom.

Felisa
02-23-2012, 12:44 PM
My work for this class.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-Coils.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-bottle.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-cylinder.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-cup.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-key.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2012/122109-dancing_men.jpg

arnoud3272
02-23-2012, 03:34 PM
Elisa - Good job. Almost completely correct. But take care, stay alert to the two most common errors:
-- on the mug, the ellipses are too pointy
-- on the abstract cylinder, the bottom ellipse is too shallow. See reply to Lisa just above.
You did very well here, and as you did already a good job on the assignments for class 5, you may now choose any of the next classes in any order.

lisaastrup
02-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Hi Arnoud.

I made a new cup drawing, and I think it so much better,
hope you think so too .

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/lisaastrup/kop.jpg

arnoud3272
02-23-2012, 04:13 PM
Very nice Lisa. Well done.

mayana
02-27-2012, 09:46 PM
Hello Arnoud,
Here are my HW, thanks!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2012/164039-cupsx.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2012/164039-slinky.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2012/164039-glasswine.jpeg

arnoud3272
02-28-2012, 10:09 AM
mayana - Nice work :clap:. Your ellipses are very good, except in one instance. I guess you forgot an important principle: start with drawing the complete form, also when part of it is hidden. That is in general, not just for ellipses, for instance it is extremely important when drawing human figures, to avoid that some limbs seem to be crippled.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2012/142886-mayana-cup-corr.jpeg

And a second error, extremely common, sadly enough not only with beginners: very conspicuous on the second mug, and with the water level in the glass.
An exercise that is mentioned many times in this class:
Take a mug or glass, look at the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe the direction of the change in curvature. A valid approximation, rule of thumb, is to make equal top and bottom curves. (That is what you see in the reference of that glass.) But remember that you cannot apply it when one of the ellipses is much closer to the EL than the other. Or when one is above and the other below the EL, a lighthouse for instance.
Now observe how you made the top ellipse more curved than the bottom.
I'd like you to correct one of the errors. Then you may move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

mayana
03-01-2012, 10:56 PM
Hello Arnoud,
thanks for advice, I revised my cups, hope it work!!!:cat:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2012/164039-newcups.jpeg

arnoud3272
03-02-2012, 02:48 AM
mayana - Excellent :clap:. Well done.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

cathartic creativity
03-26-2012, 09:14 PM
ok i'm coming back to this class a year and a half later! and i have forgotten everything ive learned about ellipses. I've read Mike Sibley's online tutorial one zillion times, and I have what probably is a dumb question:

do all ellipses have all four equal segments? With the mug, if one side of the ellipse is shallower than the other, only two will be equal with each other. I'm so confused!

arnoud3272
03-27-2012, 03:00 PM
cathartic - Welcome back :).
... and I have what probably is a dumb question:

do all ellipses have all four equal segments? With the mug, if one side of the ellipse is shallower than the other, only two will be equal with each other. I'm so confused! Not at all a dumb question, and many people are confused by the apparent asymmetry of the ellipse. Even many teachers - well, internet teachers anyway - err in this aspect. Although the problem was clearly explained in the very first treatise on perspective (anno 1435 !). The circle in perspective is a perfect ellipse - full stop. The confusion arises from the fact that the centerline of the ellipse - or with the correct term, the major axis - does not coincide with the centerline of the parent circle:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Mar-2012/142886-ellipse.jpg

So for instance on a wineglass, the foot must be drawn as a perfect ellipse, but the stem is not located in its center, but more backwards.
:thumbsup:

cathartic creativity
03-27-2012, 06:22 PM
that makes a little more sense, but i am still a little confused ;) i am trying to re-do the coffee mug from my last posting. we say that one side is shallower than another due to the angle, yet the eclipse is equal in all four segments?

cathartic creativity
03-27-2012, 06:24 PM
hahaha i wrote "eclipse." i meant ellipse

arnoud3272
03-28-2012, 07:19 AM
cathartic - It is good to dissociate ellipse and context. Take a glass or mug and look at the rim without thinking about "center". See how nice and smooth an ellipse is? So the 4 quadrants must be equal, otherwise it could not be so regular :). Perspective comes into play for the context. On the mug, with a thick rim, there are 2 ellipses, inner and outer edge. These ellipses are shifted with respect to each other, because the rim looks thinner at the back. But each ellipse is perfectly symmetrical.

BTW, you have one hour the time to correct your posting, click on "Edit", right under.
:thumbsup:

netta13542
05-21-2012, 04:12 AM
Here are my assignments for drawing cylindrical objects class four

netta13542
05-21-2012, 04:13 AM
Here are the slinkies i couldnt upload it because I had five images with the first post.

arnoud3272
05-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Netta - Well done. Clearly you understand the form.
Please move on to class 5 :music:.

Panth
05-26-2012, 02:07 AM
Hi, here is my homework for class 4. Thanks for the tip on Photoshop, for some reason the paper gets dark, so I tried to remove it using Photoshop.
I tried to get the perspective and symmetry for the various objects correctly, I hope.
Prabha:crossfingers:

arnoud3272
05-26-2012, 07:25 AM
Prabha - Well done :clap:.
One small remark: the left of the "water level" in the glass is too pricky. Ellipses don't have pointed ends.
I've no idea on the size of your paper, but if it is a common size, I think that the individual drawings are rather small. I'd advise to work larger, it is good to loosen up, and you have more room to explore the 3D modeling of the form.
Good job, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

Panth
05-27-2012, 09:26 AM
Thank you Arnoud! Yes I see what you mean about the liquid in the glass. I am drawing on small sheets, that's right. I'll now try on bigger sheets, and loosen up as you suggest. See you in class 5. Prabha:)

crafor
05-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Hi, Arnoud,
I'm back too. Here are 3 pages of my drawings for class 4. Have several more to do. Thanks for your input and help on these.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2012/978289-P5290331.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2012/978289-P5290333.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-May-2012/978289-P5290334.JPG
I see I forgot the cubes IN the drink! Mea Culpa!
Crafor

arnoud3272
05-29-2012, 05:57 PM
Crafor - Good job so far :clap:.
One remark, on the perspective of the cylinder. A very common error - I wouldn't be surprised if many people think it is the correct way - concerns the relative depth of top and bottom ellipses, the "foreshortening".
Take a glass or mug, look at the shape of the top rim while moving it up and down before your eyes. Observe where the ellipse becomes shallower, farther away or nearer to the eye level.
Drawing top and bottom equally deep is a good rule of thumb when the vertical distance to the eye level is not extremely different. That's how the glass with ice cubes reference is drawn (a photo would show different ellipses).
You drew the "liquid level" ellipse realistically shallower than the bottom :thumbsup:, but then the top is too deep. Look "absent minded" to your drawing, see how the top looks tilted?
The other drawings are basically correct.
:thumbsup:

ElleZ
06-06-2012, 12:46 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Here are a few of my many slinkies, and other sketches for your C&C, I will complete the shading on 2 of them when you OK them.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jun-2012/150751-class4-pre-assign-cylinder-slinkys.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jun-2012/150751-class4-pre-assign-slinky-assort.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jun-2012/150751-class4-pre-assign-slinkyflowerpot.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jun-2012/150751-class4-pre-assign-glasswine.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jun-2012/150751-class4-pre-assign-jug.jpg

Thanks for your time and C&C.
Cheers,
Elle:wave:

arnoud3272
06-06-2012, 04:15 AM
Good job, Elle :clap:. You worked hard.
Take a second look at the "halfway" ellipses on the pitcher, they are gliding down a bit at the right.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

ElleZ
06-06-2012, 05:19 AM
Good Evening/Morning/Afternoon Arnoud,

Thanks heaps, for your response, (wipes brow in relief).
With the pitcher, you do mean the ellipse where the top of the handle connects on to the pitcher? I will fix that when I shade, if that is the case. If you mean some other place, please let me know. I will start shading my glass until I hear from you.
Thanks again Arnoud.
Cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
06-06-2012, 05:38 AM
With the pitcher, you do mean the ellipse where the top of the handle connects on to the pitcher?
Yes, not much, but enough to look crooked.
:wave:

ElleZ
06-06-2012, 07:11 AM
Thanks Arnoud,
will fix it, when shading.
Read you again soon.
Cheers,
Elle.

ElleZ
06-07-2012, 05:49 AM
Hi Arnoud,

I have finished shading in my WineGlass and Jug/Pitcher.......I have really enjoyed our Slinky Class, this week......
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jun-2012/150751-class4-post-assign-wineglass.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jun-2012/150751-post-assign-class4-jug.jpg
I am very happy with the Jug/Pitcher, but now I am not so certain of my wine glass...I am still only using a 2B graphite pencil and more layers than I have ever done on my other drawings from the classes I took in 2003; or whenever I have just done drawings because I felt like doing so.

Enough rambling from me.... you already do heaps here, thanks and I appreciate your time and advice.

Cheers,
Elle

arnoud3272
06-07-2012, 09:42 AM
Elle - Well done :clap:.
Try to temper your enthusiasm when shading :lol:, the ellipses on the wine glass were much better in the line drawing. You finished the pitcher very well :music:.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

ElleZ
06-07-2012, 11:57 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Thanks heaps, Yes! I do have a habit sometimes of overdoing shading....I seem to have trouble deciding when enough is enough in some drawings...thanks for your comments and I will see you in Class 5......
Cheers,
Elle

crafor
06-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Arnoud,
Here's the key... I worked hard on it, but it does not look as I want it to--3 dimensial, round, useable. What am I not doing?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jun-2012/978289-P6110370.JPG

Ella

arnoud3272
06-11-2012, 05:06 PM
Ella - I understand your frustration. What happened here I think, is that you analyzed it to death. That key is a picture that is better handled by just jumping in.
But I think by now that you did enough exercises to show that you understand the cylinder. You may move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.
And BTW, getting a real feel of roundness needs a rendering of light and dark. That will be tackled in class 8.
:wave:

docxart
06-18-2012, 08:04 AM
Hello,
Here are three drawings for this cylinder class. I have gone through the recommended tutorial and although my ellipses are getting better (as compare to when I first started this course) they are still not perfect. I suspect that they will improve over time.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2012/1074922-coffee_001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2012/1074922-glass.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jun-2012/1074922-vase_001.jpg

Qadir

arnoud3272
06-18-2012, 05:04 PM
Qadir - Good job :clap:.
One remark on the vase: the ellipse of the rim is too deep. I assume it is a vase, not a pitcher. The rim should run parallel with the base of the neck, which has the correct curvature.
Well done, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

demitas
06-25-2012, 10:05 AM
Hello arnoud! Here are my assignments for class 4.

I think the logo on the mug is a bit off but I'm not sure how to fix it - maybe it's just that it looks like you're looking down on it more than the mug itself does?

arnoud3272
06-25-2012, 04:55 PM
demitas - Very well done :clap:.
I think the logo on the mug is a bit off but I'm not sure how to fix it A sure way to deform a picture - most useful on text - correctly is by a modified "gridding" technique, where the "target" grid is defined by the contour lines. This example is from the class on spheres, but you get the principle:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jun-2012/142886-class5-M.jpg
Good job, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:

demitas
06-25-2012, 09:47 PM
Thanks for the technique! See you in class 5. :wave:

ricksherny
06-26-2012, 07:49 AM
Here are my class 4 sketches
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jun-2012/1072372-swirls.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jun-2012/1072372-bottle.jpg

arnoud3272
06-26-2012, 01:17 PM
ricksherny - Well done :clap:. Good sketches, the form is generally correct.
What are your ambitions in these classes? Improve your eye for forms, sketching in preparation for painting, or also "finished" drawings? In the latter case, I'd advise to start working on your "mark making". Either aiming at smooth tones, where the strokes are barely visible - or even not, for "highly realistic" drawings. Or trying expressive strokes and marks that are more suggesting than rendering. An extreme example is Van Gogh.
You did very well, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

ricksherny
06-26-2012, 01:43 PM
What are my goals; always a good question. My initial goal is to be able to draw and have it look like what I am looking at or what I am visualizing it to be and have other be able to see it as I do also. So as I ramble here I would say that I am ultimately trying to create realistic drawings.

I have probably been jumping ahead of where I should be and have been trying different types of shading; which I did on the table top and to be honest I was not too happy with.

arnoud3272
06-26-2012, 04:07 PM
.... I would say that I am ultimately trying to create realistic drawings...
For a realistic, smooth, shading - not caring about the exact distribution of tones for the moment (=class 8 :)) - you need more patience: don't try to get it in one layer; start very faint, as close together as you can, then another faint layer over it, at a different angle, and again and again. And - again for realistic drawing - get rid of the explicit outlines, blend them into the shading. As Leonardo da Vinci wrote already: there are no outlines in nature.
:thumbsup:

jop1936
07-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Here are my cylinders for class 4. Also sendinghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jul-2012/1070172-Savedrawing.JPG a still life I did some time ago.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jul-2012/1070172-Save0001.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jul-2012/1070172-Save0003.JPG

arnoud3272
07-06-2012, 04:55 PM
Joyce - Well done :clap:. Your understanding of the cylinder is on a good level. Glad to see how your ellipses have improved compared with the previous drawing :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 5 :music:.

edwardII
08-01-2012, 03:03 AM
So, here is a page of some of my cylindrical study...and I know I left that key some where :lol::lol::lol: a drawing of one that is. I will have to find it.

Until then here are some cylindrical things out of my head or from thread.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Aug-2012/1033622-cylindrical_stuff.jpg

arnoud3272
08-01-2012, 04:25 AM
:thumbsup:

edwardII
08-02-2012, 12:33 AM
:wave: OK, I found the key misplaced :lol:

I have also thrown in a pic of a drinking glass I had done but I am not too happy with it. I bet with better construction lines/perspective lines I can do a better job in future.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Aug-2012/1033622-key_drawing.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Aug-2012/1033622-class_4_glass.jpg

arnoud3272
08-02-2012, 12:56 PM
Very nice drawings, Edward :clap:.
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

meganj
08-06-2012, 12:54 PM
Here are my drawings for Class 4. Sometimes I have trouble figuring out what the plane is that you draw the perspectived rectangle on to figure out what the angles are supposed to be. Especially when its a modified oval!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Aug-2012/67498-ovals1_104.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Aug-2012/67498-ovals2_104.jpg

meganj
08-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Thank you for doing this Arnaud, I'm re-learning a lot of tools I used to use.

arnoud3272
08-07-2012, 02:53 PM
Well done, Megan :clap:.
I like your drawing of the key :).
Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Nephrin
08-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Arnoud, here are my cylindrical drawings for class 4.

765382

765392

765402

arnoud3272
08-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Nephrin - Good job :clap:.
Two remarks on the coffeecup:
-- the inside looks more a cone, kinda volcano lake :lol:, than a cylinder. That is caused by what is essentially an error of perspective :(. The geometry is very complicated, but just "draw what you see". Compare he positions of the two ellipses in the reference and in your drawing:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Aug-2012/142886-nephrin-cup.jpg

-- in shading learn to use a consistent stroke direction per plane. For instance, the coffee surface has the strokes straight across where it is easy, but following the contours at the edges. OK in a sketch, but for a "finished" drawing it looks cheap.

Please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

Mahbubani
08-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Here are my cylindrical objects.

Mahbubani
08-17-2012, 04:33 PM
Here is another one.:crossfingers:

arnoud3272
08-18-2012, 12:50 PM
Well done, Mona, almost correct everywhere :clap:.
One point to pay attention to: ellipses do not have pointed ends:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2012/142886-mona-glass.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2012/142886-mona-pot.jpg

In medieval times, ellipses ended on points :wink2::

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2012/142886-arabic-ellipse.jpg

Good job in this class, please move on to class 5 :thumbsup:.

pratya.amrit
08-22-2012, 02:22 AM
hey Arnoud this is my 1st assignment for this class as i will b doing more practice wid cylindrical shapes.. :D
m nt satisfied wid this cup :( but still uploading to get some valuable advice.. :)
regards

arnoud3272
08-22-2012, 03:22 PM
Pratya - In what aspect not satisfied? It is very well done for the subject of this class, I think you understood the the cylindrical form correctly:clap:.

pratya.amrit
08-22-2012, 09:33 PM
Pratya - In what aspect not satisfied?
with its handle it looks tilted a bit..
nd thnx for ur appreciation.. :)

arnoud3272
08-23-2012, 03:46 AM
Pratya - Of course, you're right. But it is too late to correct, the advice is to check/measure the forms regularly. The PC is very helpful, put the reference and a scan of your work side by side, (about) the same size.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2012/142886-pratya-cup.jpg

Seeing it in reduced size helps a lot, painters walk back often from their easel :).
:wave:

pratya.amrit
08-23-2012, 06:18 AM
Pratya -The PC is very helpful, put the reference and a scan of your work side by side, (about) the same size.

thnx Arnoud for ur precious advice..
i have corrected it in the morning(by drawing again.. :D) nd done some more slinkies nd cylinder wid perspective to make tht more clear to me..
nd have also done the wine glass.. i need a lot of improvement with shading though.. :)

arnoud3272
08-23-2012, 03:38 PM
Good job, Pratya, you're improving fast :clap:.
The thorough study of shading is for a later (more advanced) class :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 5 :music:.

pratya.amrit
08-23-2012, 08:37 PM
Good job, Pratya, you're improving fast :clap:.
The thorough study of shading is for a later (more advanced) class :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 5 :music:.

thnx Arnoud
see u in class 5.. :)

micko45
09-16-2012, 05:12 PM
Hi,

See some of my efforts for this class, I did struggle with this one.

Rgds
Michael.

arnoud3272
09-17-2012, 04:40 PM
... I did struggle with this one.
But the results are fine :thumbsup:. Well done, Michael, please move on to class 5 :clap:.

lajale
09-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Here are at first my slinkies (sorry for the bad pictures) and some cylindrical studies.

I´ll post a finished cylinder soon.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2012/1049812-Slinkies.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2012/1049812-Cylinder.jpg

arnoud3272
09-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Chris - Good job so far :clap:.
The "Bierkrug" sketch illustrates an extremely common error in the perspective of the cylinder. Apparently the correct perspective is completely counterintuitive. To learn it, take a glass or mug and move it up and down before your eyes. Observe how the top ellipse becomes shallower when nearer to the eye level, not the way you drew it. Or illustrated in another way:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2012/142886-cylinder.jpg
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

lajale
09-24-2012, 01:53 AM
Thanks for the explanation. I´ll do some more sketches and research.

By the way: The “Bierkrug” is actually a coffee mug, although I am from Germany. :cat:

lajale
09-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Here are the key and the cup from the exercises. I lost my patience on the key, as usually with such detailed objects. And a bottle from a very good South African red wine. Unfortunately it is empty.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2012/1049812-Tasse.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2012/1049812-Weinflasche.jpg