Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

[JayD]

Basic 101: Class 2



Eye Level: Foundation of Perspective

The source for this class can be found on Pages 15 through 19 of Rudy de Reyna’s How to Draw What You See.

Welcome to Class 2 of Basics 101. We are going to be covering the concept of eye level as it pertains to the successful laying out of perspective. The guest lecture series will take this class one step further with an excellent section devoted to one, two and three point perspectives. I urge you to do these simple exercises first before moving into the lecture hall.

Materials:

1. # 2 pencil or pencil you used in the last class

2. Paper—same as last class

3. Feel free to use a ruler this time around

Exercise 1: To demonstrate the concept of eye level, lay on the floor on you back. I did this in preparation for the class and woke up 45 minutes later. Please do not follow my example and take a nap. Instead, look up at everything around you and mentally break any objects that you see into geometric objects—mentally eliminate the detail. Even though this seems obvious, note that for most of these objects you will see the BOTTOMS of these shapes. Now, pick out an object and sit up and keep your eyes FIXED on the chosen object. Note that the object’s point of view changes as you raise to a sitting position. Now keeping your eye on the object, stand up slowly and continue to observe the change until the tops of the object come into view. Eye level is THAT simple yet it is such a natural occurrence for us that many of us (read ME) forget to make this basic observation. If you can establish eye level you can correctly work out perspective. The level at which your eye views an object is called the “horizon” line. (Figure A) There are an infinite number of horizon lines.

Vanishing Points

At this point, having learned my lesson from the last class, I am going to label our images as figure A, B, C and so on.

A vanishing point is an IMAGINERY point on the horizon line. There are in infinite number of vanishing points and it is up to you to fix the vanishing point according to your viewpoint. Your vanishing points will always be located ON the horizon line (eye level) that you establish. (See Figure B) In one point perspective, there is only one vanishing point. In two-point perspective there are two vanishing points and so forth. You will find examples of these in the guest lecture area.

The Cube In Perspective:

Exercise 2:

Follow these steps to create a cube in perspective (see also figure C)

a. Draw a rectangle or a square anywhere on your paper. This is the front of your cube..

b. Establish your horizon line (your eye level) and lightly draw it on the paper (you can also just do this in your head as many of us are prone to do).

c. Pick you vanishing point.

d. Connect the lines running from each of the edged of the Square or Rectangle to the vanishing point.

e. Add lines parallel to the front of the cubes along the lines running to the vanishing point (see figure C)

When you do this exercise, draw the cube several times using different vanishing points and horizon lines (eye levels).(see Figure D)

The mighty cube is a perfect visual example of the three dimensions: height, depth and width. If you can clearly define and then incorporate these dimensions into the objects that you draw, then you will be able to draw realistically.

Each dimension can vary. The height of the cube can be greater the depth or the width could be the biggest dimension of all three. Keeping this fact in mind will speed up your progress as an artist.


Exercise 3:

Look about your home and locate four boxes. When you have finished practicing the cubes, draw the boxes and add detail to them such as packaging design or lettering (if it is on you box). Do several studies of these boxes with detail but at different eye levels. Keep in mind eye level (horizon line) and vanishing point.








Exercise 4:

Taking your newfound artistic superpowers draw and post the following items.:

1. A Television (with detail)
[Ed 17 Dec 2009]: skip this, the modern flat screens are no good illustrations of perspective.

2. A box of Kleenex (with detail)

3. A table
[Ed 17 Dec 2009]: advice: choose a rectangular table with straight legs

4. Redo the chair exercise from the previous class—only this time CHANGE THE HORIZON LINE (EYE LEVEL) and post. I will be doing the chair again for another class (Drawing with Cubic Objects). Use an ordinary straight dining chair (on the recommendation of Robin Neudorfer, class tutor), changing the eyelevel from the previous exercise. [changed 16 May 2008] post ref with exercise


FINALLY,

At the guest lecture hall you will find examples of one, two, and three point perspective. Go over these lectures and then try you hand at applying two and three point perspective to the subjects in exercise 4.

For those of you with buildings or outdoor scenes, take a crack at establishing your horizon lines in one, two and three point perspective. Correct the perspective in your drawing if needed. TIP: SKETCH OUT YOUR DRAWING FREEHAND AND THEN CORRECT THE DRAWING USING PERSPECTIVE.

I have included some reference photos that I took that you can try your skills out on OR you can grab some from the reference library.

Good luck and happy drawing!

[JayD]

Here are the practice photos mentioned in the lesson and dont forget to go to the guest lecture hall for Mitzi's lecture on perspective. :) See if you can locate the horizon line and vanishing points. How would you do these as drawings.

[JayD]

Here is the link for Scratchmaster's (Russ') tutorial:

http://www.russpix.com/perspective/

[JayD]

Fireman's Kid--I think that is the stumper of perspective--how do I know where to place what. Ironically, the answer is to eyeball it. YOU decide where you want the horizon line to be and YOU decide where to place your vanishing points. In other words before applying perspective you have to make some decisions and those decisiosn are about how the viewer sees your picture and from what eye level.

I cannot say this enought but this might help all you with perspective:

NEVER DO YOUR PERSPECTIVE FIRST--DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

1. START WITH A SKETCH--DON'T WORRY ABOUT PERSPECTIVE

2. WORK YOUR SKETCH UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH IT.

3. CORRECT IT WITH PERSPECTIVE

4. TRANSFER TO YOUR GOOD PAPER AND LET THE HAPPINESS BEGIN.

Hope this helps. By the way, I got this take on perspective from the Japanese.

[JayD]

http://mathforum.org/workshops/sum98/participants/sanders/TryPersp.gsp.html

Try this one.

OK this one does work--it is really neat--it employs two point perspective.

[Jet]

Thanks JayD, for the pointers on perspective...

I did this "study" of photograph #2 ...
It's easy to get confused when looking for the vanishing point, here i started with the red lines, then after going through several lines i changed it for the VP (green lines)..
All lines are true in rooms #1 & #2.....

Purple lines are supposed to be the vertical lines, although there is a slight lens aberration on room #3 ...

If we follow the lines we can tell that the windows in room #2 are identical, and the windows on #1 are not the same size...

By following these lines we can draw the bottom line of the house walls (here is the edge of room #1...
......and add a BBQ Grill with very accurate perspective, too...:cool:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2004/27782-Persp-b.jpg......http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2004/27782-lesson2-b-pb.jpg

Hope it helps...

Kind Regards
:wave:

[Jet]

Thanks JayD,..

Hello Guys & Gals,
I've been too busy moving....and it's only moving 2 rooms full of dusty stuff to 2 stories above..pant..pant..!!

OK now, back to the fun !! :)

Ann, Jo,you're doing great; there is no fast rule as to how deep an object will be as it is more a perceptual issue...to get our attention let's imagine a shadow...How long(deep) a shadow has to be it depends on the position/distance of the lighting source and the surface, where it will (cast) fall upon....same goes here, but this time your eyes are the equivalent of the light source....

One way to know for sure is, to compare it with other objects sitting next to it....and a better way to understand this is by taking pictures at different angles and compare the relationship between an acute angle and an obtuse one..you'll notice that at one point there will be the need for fore shortening your objects, and all their depths look -not quite, but- about the same.

This will be more easy to understand if we take a look at buildings and how architects figure this out, i had the opportunity to attend 2 semesters of Architecture and this is about the only thing that i am familiar with...
Following, is the best picture JayD could have posted, for illustrating this topic...

This photograph is the whole enchilada as to what One-Point Perspective is all about...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2004/27782-Photo3-1PP.jpg
You can see lines of different color here, the Horizon (green), Convergence Lines (yellow), Vertical (red)...
You'll find the horizon as the flat line that crosses the vanishing point(s), and it tells us where the photographer was standing too. This clever photographer was standing at a 2nd level, and he was aiming straight ahead, slightly tilted CCW -not being generally noticed, but in short range objects-.

Going back to the kleenex box, one way to 'tell' the depth of objects is to place 'clues', as the 'squares' on the floor of this photograph, it let us know, the length of adjacent objects (buildings) by looking at these squares ...:cool:

I hope i made sense here ...If not please let me know !

This picture is so rich in information that is our most valuable tool for this topic.. Good Job JayD... http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Regards
:wave:

Note from the Editor: This thread continues with the recent posts. The older posts can be found in this closed thread:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225461

[Jelleau]

This class was fairly difficult for me. But here are my drawings

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980243-Kleenex_Box.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980243-table.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980243-boxes.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Gabriela - Very good job :clap:. You clearly understand basic perspective.
Two remarks:
A. (technical) Don't forget that all sets of parallel lines, unless "parallel to the plane of the drawing" - or almost so, converge to a vanishing point. You forgot one set.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/142886-gabriela-boxes-corr.jpg

B. (artistic) Choosing the 2 VP's too near to each other, as in your table drawing, results in an unpleasant distortion; put one of them outside the picture. If you have to get a correct perspective then, there are some tricks, like taping a second piece of paper at the side; but for an artist, taking a good guess suffices in most cases.
Can we see a chair drawing?
:wave:

[Jelleau]

Oh my lord who knew a chair would cause so much frustration LOL ... well here we go, attempt #5. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2011/980243-Chair_Perspective.jpg

[Jelleau]

I just wanted to say thank you for the encouragement and tips. I am learning so much:clap:

[arnoud3272]

Gabriela - Excellent, very well done :clap::clap:.
With your understanding of perspective, cubic forms won't pose any problems :), please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[latedrawer]

Below are my drawings for Exercise 1, cubes in 1 PP, and Exercise 3, four boxes at different eye levels. My next post will be the studies for Exercise 4.

I revised the drawings several times after reading previous posts. I tried to apply that information to making corrections. I also re-read the "Start Here" post because I missed the last paragraph about posting as you go--this after reading your scolding another student not posting as she worked through the exercises. :o Like her, I think I also need to relax and post work in progress. I will also post "work in progress" in the future so I can get specific input.

I'm finding I get a lot of instruction helpful by rereading posts and thinking about how you analyze the images.

Exercise 1
694109

Exercise 3 four boxes at different eye levels
694111
694112
694114

[latedrawer]

Below are my drawings for Exercise 4. It was challenging to draw images in perspective on the sides of the boxes.
694115

694116

694117

[arnoud3272]

Carole - Excellent job :clap::clap:. You understand how to apply perspective very well. Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[ArtzeFartze]

Here is my exercise 2 and 3

694239

[arnoud3272]

Terri - Good job :clap:. Clearly you have no technical problems with perspective. From an artistic point, don't put the "related" VP's too close together. Note how the front corners of the two boxes in 2PP are too sharp. If you look IRL, those angles become more obtuse in perspective view, so a right angle can never look acute.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[sirOwlBeak]

Here are a few studies on perspective. I feel that I get quite intimidated by lots of detail.

1.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_15-11-11_23_44_15.jpeg

2.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_15-11-11_23_43_14.jpeg

3.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_15-11-11_23_40_43.jpeg

4.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_15-11-11_23_41_27.jpeg

There you go. :)

[arnoud3272]

sirOwlBeak - It is useful to read farther in the thread than just the first post. Then it would be clear that this class is restricted to rectangular objects in vertical position. That is already difficult enough. So no artistically arranged books :lol:.
It looks as if you did not check on the first principle of perspective.
Further away looks smaller.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Nov-2011/142886-980537-2-2-corr.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Nov-2011/142886-980537-2-1-corr.jpeg

It would be easier if you don't erase the VL's. Then we can see whether you understood, even if the result is not mathematically correct.
:wave:

[sirOwlBeak]

Ok, I guess I got carried away a bit to much. I will work out new drawings with the suggestions that where made ^^ I probably rush too much ;) thanks for the corrections made.

[sirOwlBeak]

So I will post one box to get feedback on the whole thing. I now know that I have to check the convergence of the vanishing lines more thoroughly. So I gradually corrected them with a reference on the PC.

This is the reference picture:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_20-11-11_15_34_37.jpeg

sketch:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_20-11-11_17_10_56.jpeg

I did a few checks on the vanishing lines so I will just post the last one I did:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Nov-2011/980537-perspective_check3_box1.jpg

I will try another box after this one got feedbacked :). But I do feel that perspective is quite hard.

[arnoud3272]

sirOwlBeak - Well done :clap:. You do understand it perfectly.
But I do feel that perspective is quite hard. Perspective is rather technical, but as an artist it suffices to avoid the gross errors. The point is that to be able to use it intuitively, you need to know at least the fundamental principles in practice, not just by reading. It's like something I read about the advice from a Japanese martial art master: "In the training, copy me as accurately as possible, then forget it"

[sirOwlBeak]

Had to find some time to finish this assignment. Had a very busy week, so i could not post earlier. Here we go.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_24-11-11_22_35_11.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_27-11-11_16_59_40.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Nov-2011/980537-Kassett-DVD-Storage-Boxes.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Nov-2011/980537-Photo_27-11-11_16_52_58.jpeg

[arnoud3272]

sirOwlBeak - Good job, I see that you understand the principle :thumbsup:.
But before it becomes a "gut reaction", one must pay careful attention to all sets of parallel edges. In the drawing of the two boxes, it looks reasonable that the left VP lies on the same level as the middle one. But at the right it is not believable that the edges converge fast enough:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Nov-2011/142886-owlbeak-boxes-corrr.jpeg

You're doing fine in general. For a final test, can we see a drawing of a table? Simple as it may seem, that is a test that many people fail.

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Here are my assignments for this class except chair. I will submit the drawing of a chair tomorrow. Also, I do not have a box of kleenex.

Please review and provide your critique and comments.

Thanks in advance for all your help!

[astropaint]

Corrected the front leg of the table....:)

[arnoud3272]

astro - Good job. You have the basic understanding of perspective. It is not yet grained in, so you need to stay very attentive.

-- There is really no reaon why only one side of a box converges.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-astro-Box-corr.JPG

-- Remember: further away looks smaller
Always, so also for the lines emphasized in red.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-astro-4-Boxes-corr.JPG

The yellow lines: the remainder of the drawing is in 2PP, where vertical lines do not converge. And even if you imagined this in 3PP, further away looks smaller. You are looking down, so the top would look larger.

-- The table :evil:. As I said a few posts ago, drawing a table looks deceivingly simple.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-astro-Table-corr.JPG

I am not a carpenter, but my concept of a table is that the lines connecting the legs run parallel with the table top. And all lines of a set of parallel lines converge to the same VP.

Take care! a chair has the same problems with the legs :evil:.
Although it should be simple, a table is just a box with cutouts.
:thumbsup:

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Thank you for your feedback.

I am going to work on the boxes and table again. As you indicated, table is a trouble. I want to get this right before I move on.

Regarding the 4 boxes, I had placed them on the table so the top box was almost to my chin level. I draw sitting on easel and I am short in height. In this position, the top box does not look larger. I was going for 2PP.

Best regards!

[arnoud3272]

astro -
I had placed them on the table so the top box was almost to my chin level Did you draw match boxes :confused:?
Or else you made it up, instead of drawing what you saw.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-astro-4-Boxes-EL.JPG

Eye Level (aka horizon line) IS what it says, the height of your eyes in relation to the object or landscape.
:wave:

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,
Matchboxes.....:lol:

I am used to drawing big shapes but for this exercise I felt if I drew big I will not be able to show the VPs as it won't fit on single page.

Thank you for pointing out my errors. It is very helpful.

Question - what should be the ideal distance you would recommend between the still life and me? For example, the table that I drew was placed I think less than a feet from me. So, I see the sides of the table parallel to the opposite sides and could not visualize convergence of VLs in the distance. Same for the boxes.

Best regards!

[sirOwlBeak]

Hi Arnoud,

I've tried to draw a table and I wholeheartedly agree on the fact that it is harder than it actually looks. The perspective I can fix with just one correction but it looks like i cant get the proportions just right. The hind leg in the photo just kept bothering me.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/980537-Rita_Rectangular_Dining_Table_in_Teak.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/980537-final_table.jpeg

And thanks for the feedback on the previous drawings. But I'm not sure that I understood your last remark about the right parallel edges. Do you mean that the perspective can be fixed by just tilting up the lowest vanishing line a bit? Or should I move the right vanishing point more to the right on the horizon line?

If my table is unacceptable I will do it again ^^

[arnoud3272]

sirOwl - Good work.
But I'm not sure that I understood your last remark about the right parallel edges If I expand my previous correction until the VL's cross the EL - determined by the (easiest) 1PP of the top box - it is clear that they do not vanish on the EL.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-owlbeak-boxes-corrr-2.jpeg

Which VL you correct, or both a little, depends on you. Perspective is just a tool, the artist must decide whether it "looks nice" :).
BTW, I did not spot the error by constructing the VL's. The cube is in a nearly symmetrical position - so the perspective should be nearly symmetrical as well :thumbsup:.
The hind leg in the photo just kept bothering me.
That's because you tried to put the back leg too far from the corner:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-owlbeak-table-corr-2.jpeg

Construct a container (box) around the table, that shows that also some other VL's were not correct. [the VL's that I left in are red].

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Nov-2011/142886-owlbeak-table-corr-1.jpeg

You did a good job in this class. And anyway, next class is heavy on perspective again :evil:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Could you please respond to my question as it will really help me setting up the still life at home.

Question - what should be the ideal distance you would recommend between the still life and me? For example, the table that I drew was placed I think less than a feet from me. So, I see the sides of the table parallel to the opposite sides and could not visualize convergence of VLs in the distance. Same for the boxes.

Thank you so much!

[arnoud3272]

astro -
what should be the ideal distance you would recommend between the still life and me?
But distance is no meaningful factor. Drawing a matchbox, or a sunflower?
It is really the artist's taste: does it look nice? :). Too near results in unpleasant distortion ("fish eye lens"), too far will render it rather flat. This belongs to composition, look through a viewfinder (a rectangular hole in a piece of card stock.
:thumbsup:

[astropaint]

Thank you, Arnoud. I will make use of the viewfinder that I bought a while ago and never used it. :)

[wendyc1276]

This is the first assignment, 1 point perspective. I added shading to the second attempt to make the boxes look more solid.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/201691-1PP_boxes_1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/201691-1PP_boxes_2.jpg

[wendyc1276]

This is the second part of the assignment, the 4 box still life. This was an interesting exercise, as I sketched the boxes out freehand before checking perspective. It is amazing how "off" we see things and think they are correct! I also had to do a lot of corrections as I checked that the verticals were perpendicular. Also, the close VP on the left DOES do a bit of distortion!

I had trouble with the bottom box...it is looking straight on, so the horizontal lines seems like they should be flat, and the vertical lines appear to be straight vertical. Where should those lines converge?

Thanks again for doing this, I always skmmed perspective in the books I went through not realizing the importance of actually doing the exercises. Understanding it is way different than KNOWING it! :-)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/201691-4box_study.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Wendy - Very well done :clap:. These boxes are in correct perspective, except indeed:
I had trouble with the bottom box...it is looking straight on, so the horizontal lines seems like they should be flat, and the vertical lines appear to be straight vertical. Where should those lines converge? You're thinking too much, it is simply another example for exercise 1 :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/142886-wendy-sugg.jpg

You're off to a good start :thumbsup:.

[muldi]

Hello, Here is Exercise 2, the four boxes. Thought I'd get your feedback before trying anything more. Thank you!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/215828-P1000243.JPG

[wendyc1276]

Arnoud - Thanks for setting me straight :) . Here are the details for the boxes, not quite correct, but I was working pretty small. I will work bigger for the next box. I don't have a tissue box, but will find something comparable with design. Thanks!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Dec-2011/201691-4box_study_detailed.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Diane - Correctly drawn. But this is not the "4-boxes" assignment, it is about how to construct the VL's. The 4-boxes exercise is drawing from life, not from imagination, a coherent setup of 4 boxes.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[arnoud3272]

:thumbsup: Wendy

[muldi]

Thanks Amoud, Yes, I mislabeled this one. Should have been labeled 'cubes'!
Boxes coming up....
Diane

[wendyc1276]

Here is my tissue box drawing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/201691-tissue_box.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Wendy - The details are nice, but the general form looks squashed. I'm sure you know, but you need to analyze carefully for the time being; with more practice, you will apply it intuitively :thumbsup:.
All lines of a set of parallel lines vanish to the same point.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/142886-wendy-tissue_box-corr.jpg

I think the error is in the bottom (marked) line.
No need to redraw it - can we see a table and a chair?
Keep up the good work :).

[muldi]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/215828-P1000246.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/215828-P1000247.JPG

Here are the 4 box still life's. Two copies as I had to take them at an angle with my camera .

Thank you, Diane

[wendyc1276]

Arnoud - Can I ask what program you are using that you can add the lines out further than the drawing? I'd like to use that technique to check my work for this class and future works. I do have photoshop, but I don't know how easy that is to add the straight lines like you do. Thanks!

[jrl11528]

Wendy,

Lacking anything better, I just checked my lesson with Powerpoint. You can only move the projection lines up down or tilt in increments, but it helped a lot. They are not exact, but at least point out the gross errors. I am making some adjustments to my outlines now and will be posting them in a few minutes. (I'm really struggling with this for some reason, so I am going to post the outlines for feedback before I spend more time with the details on the boxes.)

Hope this was useful.

Jim
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/979730-perspectivecheck.JPG

[jrl11528]

Arnoud,
First, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this. It is very much appreciated.

Attached are the first two parts of my lesson. It has taken several tries, but I THINK I have the perspective of the outlines of the boxes close. I am posting this as a WIP while I continue working.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/979730-Cubes.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Dec-2011/979730-BoxesOutlines3.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Wendy -
I do have photoshop, but I don't know how easy that is to add the straight lines Straight lines (http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/photoshop/l/bllps507ex2.htm) is easy enough in Photoshop. Do it in a separate layer, so you can safely erase and try again.
:wave:

[arnoud3272]

Diane - Well done :clap:. There is one obvious error - we can see the left side of that box, so definitely the right side must converge to the left.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Dec-2011/142886-diane-boxes-2-corr.JPG

:thumbsup:

[arnoud3272]

Jim - Good start :clap:. When the VP is near enough you did very well. For VP's far off the page, it is enough that it looks reaonable that the edges converge to a point on the EL (not so for architects, but their CAD software solves it for them :lol:) Your guess is mostly correct, except for the top box.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Dec-2011/142886-jim-Boxes-corr.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[muldi]

Arnoud, Thank you for the comment on the boxes. I have corrected and attached the work again.
Also, I have attached the Exercise 4 three items, except for the chair. Thanks for all you are doing. Diane
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2011/215828-P1000253.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2011/215828-P1000255.JPG

[crafor]

Hello: These are my boxes in one point perspective, and various boxes. Please comment on them. Question: I was looking at a small rectangular table today. It was below my eyeline and about 5 feet away. The dimensions were about 12" x 18", and as I looked at it, the side edges appeared to be wider apart at the back side than the near side, so that they looked like \ and / rather than / /. To the point I went over and measured the table. When I returned to my seat, I still had that impression--that the edges were \ and /. What causes that distortion, and how can I believe my eyes with that? That phenonema would explain some of the problem others are having, too. Logically, and realistically, as I measured them, the sides are parallel. Wisually, they did not appear to do se, even as I studied them, measured, and looked at them again.
Thanks
Crafor

[crafor]

lesson 2 perspective

Hello,
This is the table for exercise 4. Thank you for checking it.
Crafor

[arnoud3272]

Diane - Very good job :clap::clap:. All correctly done.
:thumbsup:

[arnoud3272]

crafor - Very well done too :clap::clap:.
the side edges appeared to be wider apart at the back side than the near side,.... Yes, I know, it is a common phenomenon. It's your brain playing tricks, like those optical illusions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion) But if you hold a knitting needle or so parallel to one side and move it to the other side without changing the angle - possibly this will need some practice -, you will see they converge.
So you undersand why for centuries after its discovery, artists were very enthusiastic about perspective, it freed them from the need to measure and re-measure everything.
BTW, this skill to move while keeping the angle constant is very useful for transfering angles from observation to drawing :thumbsup:.

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

I have corrected some boxes per your critique. I also re-did the table and drew a chair. Please provide your feedback. Thanks in advance for all your help!

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

I am sorry. I thought the photos will post directly into the message but they are attachments. Would it be a problem? I do not have the software installed on my office computer to reduce the size so I created pdfs of each photo.

Please do let me know if this is not acceptable, I will post it in the evening. Thank you!

[jrl11528]

Updated boxes and tissue box. Didn't mean for this to take so long but work has a way of interfering. I hope to have the last two parts of this lesson completed this evening.

Just read the comment above about transferring angles, and that will definitely be a learned skill for me- I seem to have no innate talent for it.

When I started with a blank sheet of paper i just couldn't seem to get proportions even close. If you look at the tissue box, I went back in and heavied up the nearest apex so the next sentence might make sense. If I traced or copied just that little apex to sort of define the axes, the sketch went about 10 times as fast and I could actually recognize what I was drawing before I applied the ruler to check perspective.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/979730-boxesfinal.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/979730-Tissue.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Hi Arnoud,

I am sorry. I thought the photos will post directly into the message but they are attachments. Would it be a problem? I do not have the software installed on my office computer to reduce the size so I created pdfs of each photo.

Please do let me know if this is not acceptable, I will post it in the evening. Thank you!
Attachments are no problem, but please no PDF files.

[arnoud3272]

Jim - Very well done :clap:. Everything is basically correct.
define the axes, the sketch went about 10 times as fast and I could actually recognize what I was drawing before I applied the ruler to check perspective. :thumbsup:

BTW, no need to hurry :), you can take these classes at your own pace. (Some pupils post only 2 or 3 times a year)
:wave:

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Do you want me to post the drawings in the evening in the correct format? Thanks.

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

I found a workaround. Here are the photos in the correct format. Please review. Thanks in advance for all your help!

[muldi]

Arnoud, Here is my chair!
Thank you, Diane

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/215828-P1000260.JPG

[arnoud3272]

Diane - Good job. You understand the basic principles, but take care, you let it slip away sometimes:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/142886-diane-chair-cor.JPG

You did very well in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[arnoud3272]

astro - You have some basic understanding of the subject matter, but some points are a bit hazy, I think.
As has been stressed again and again, this class is only about the perspective of rectangular forms. Where did you find that kind of pyramidal box? :lol:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/../Community/images/08-Dec-2011/142886-astro-Boxes.JPG


I skip the chair. As has been explained often, you should choose a straight, right-angled chair.

The table: all lines of the same set of parallel lines converge to the same VP. Imagine a double railway track, 4 parallel lines. Can you imagine that the two tracks diverge in the distance?
Even with an incompetent carpenter, the floor under the legs of a table is parallel to the top :lol:. They must have the same VP's.

[jrl11528]

Ok, I believe this is the last two components of this lesson for review.
Thanks again for the feedback.

Jim
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/979730-Lesson2Table.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2011/979730-lessone2chair.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Excellent work, Jim :clap::clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Corrected the table and the top box that looked like pyramid. :)

Thanks again for all your feedback.

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

I do not have a straight chair at home. I just have this one and the dinner table chair is all curvy. So, I drew this one. Would it be okay if I drew a chair from a photo? Thanks.

[arnoud3272]

astro - Looks very good now :thumbsup:.

I do not have a straight chair at home. Leave it to that, the chair is just another exercise. You will have ample opportunity to practice perspective in the next class :evil:.
You worked very well in this class, time for a change. Please move on to class 3 :music:

[astropaint]

Hi Arnoud,

Thank you for all your feedback. See you in the next class!

[wendyc1276]

Arnoud - Here is my chair, I am picking a suitable table to draw and will have that shortly. Thanks!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Dec-2011/201691-chair.jpg

[wendyc1276]

I've also included a table. At this point of view, it appears the back leg doesn't show at all. I didn't have a square table, but used a picture and changed the perspective a litte. Is it correct? Should I do a table with longer legs/lower perspective? Thanks for checking!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Dec-2011/201691-table.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Wendy - Excellent perspective constructions:clap::clap:.
Should I do a table with longer legs/lower perspective? Definitely not :). "Draw what you see" is the motto of these classes. But that implies "Do not draw what you cannot see". You understood that very well.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[crafor]

Hello, I hope this fulfills the assignment. I don't feel like I have a good grasp yet of this, that's why all the chairs. I will do some in 2 point also.
Crafor

[arnoud3272]

Well done, crafor :clap:.
You understand the subject matter of this class very well.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[LindaGal]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Dec-2011/974162-perspectivessmaller.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Dec-2011/974162-chair_perspective_smaller.jpg
Think I get it - I'm just too impatient! and i really need to buy a proper rubber & artists putty stuff! and remember to use a protector, my hands do smudge.:o

[newkidontheblock]

Welcome to Wet Canvas Linda. Take your time as it is so easy to rush. Slowing down, aids in the observations and we are supposed to draw what we see.When we rush we miss out on seeing so much. I can recall someone saying draw as though you have 1000 years to live!! I know it is easier said than done. So not only do you have to practise drawing, but also practise patience :)
You are doing really well. I love your chair. Keep up the good work. I know I particularly learnt so much from these lessons. Regards, Lyn

[arnoud3272]

Linda - Good job :clap:.
I see that you understand the basics of perspective, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[Chrisp47]

Hi again, I finally found my way to Class 2. I took some time off to read "The Theory & Practice of Perspective" by Storey, I found it very interesting. Thanks for recommending it Arnoud.
Here are the first exercises and a couple of attempts of drawing objects in perspective.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Dec-2011/165919-IMG_0002.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Dec-2011/165919-IMG_0001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Dec-2011/165919-IMG_0003.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Dec-2011/165919-IMG_0004.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Chris - Very good :clap::clap:.
You've a good understanding of perspective.
:thumbsup:

[757jewelry]

So I tried the spheres but it just reaffirmed that I dont know how to use lines to shade spheres... so I decided to come here since I can do well with the cubes. Didn't use a ruler either.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/64952-1326029405-picsay.jpg


I also tried the kleenex box and I measured each angle and length with my pencil and youll see one of them doesnt seem to fit in the perspective rules but its real. What do you think?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/64952-1326029158-picsay.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Brittany - This classroom - with comments and corrections - is a little organized. If you want to freewheel, there is always the main forum. So please, go to class 1 before continuing here.

Now to your kleenex box:
doesnt seem to fit in the perspective rules but its real. No it is not. Your eyes and mind are playing tricks with you. There is no doubt at all that this first principle of perspective is "real": further away looks smaller.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/142886-brittany-kleenex-corr.jpg

That is exactly why artists were so enthusiastic for centuries after the discovery of linear perspective, it saved them a lot of tedious and imprecise measuring.

BTW, use a ruler in this class, draw the vanishing lines and leave them in. It is just so much easier for me to judge your understanding :thumbsup:.

[Grinning Chuckster]

Here is my lesson. I did only one perspective drawing, since I have done them before. I did the idea of a television for the real lesson. They weren't too hard to do.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/984157-class_1_assignment_2a_perspective.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jan-2012/984157-class_1_assignment_2b_perspective.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Chuckster - You copied the textbook example faithfully, but your own contribution is not correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jan-2012/142886-chucster-TV-corr.jpg

Please do not rush, there are several assignments to complete in this class.

[Grinning Chuckster]

Chuckster - You copied the textbook example faithfully, but your own contribution is not correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Jan-2012/142886-chucster-TV-corr.jpg

Please do not rush, there are several assignments to complete in this class.

Thank you for your feedback, yes, I really did rush through this:o . I'm going back to it tonight with more attention.

[lisaastrup]

perspective.... a difficult thing :lol:

here is two for you to comment on :crossfingers:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2012/79005-persk.jpg

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/lisaastrup/art/sker.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Lisa - It looks as if you understand the basic thing: further away looks smaller But that counts for all sets of parallel lines, take care to check in all directions:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2012/142886-lisa-sker-1.jpg

As for the lines that you did check, look out for the second principle: all VP's of horizontal lines lie on the horizon. And definitely there is only one horizon.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2012/142886-lisa-sker-2.jpg

The basic perspective of this class is not complicated, these two principles, and how to construct VL's - it only needs a lot of attention to details.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[lisaastrup]

2. try - I hope its better, but I'm not sure, lots of erasing.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/lisaastrup/art/sker2jpg.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Lisa - Nice try, but...
The boxes have a different orientation with respect to the plane of the viewer. No way they can share a VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2012/142886-lisa-sker2-corr.jpg

All lines in a set of parallel lines have a common VP. But every set of lines has its own VP
Warning - almost never mentioned in tutorials: perspective is not - repeat not - a property of objects. The rays of light do not remember where they come from :lol:. One should look for sets of parallel lines - real or imaginary, e.g. between the legs of a table.

:wave:

[lisaastrup]

here is my chair...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jan-2012/79005-stol.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Lisa - Almost correct. But first: please draw all VL's that are needed to be sure that the perspective is correct.

The modified assignments clearly state to use a rectangular chair. I think you chose a stylish chair where the back of the seat is smaller than the front. You're making it more difficult than necessary. But if this is supposed to be a rectangular chair, the perspective is not correct at all.
As you insist on a difficult type of chair, the solution is to construct a rectangular box, or scaffolding, around it - and check that box.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jan-2012/142886-lisa-stol-corr.jpg

As you see, the bottom and top of this box have different VP's, whereas this is a textbook "cube" by definition.
:wave:

[lisaastrup]

two for today :crossfingers:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2012/79005-bord3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2012/79005-stol2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Lisa -
The table is correctly drawn :clap:.
Comments on the chair: as was repeated often in this thread, this very basic class does not treat sloping planes, horizontal is already difficult enough for beginners. So you should not attempt to draw VL's for the top of the seat. On the other hand, unless it was made by a very lousy carpenter, the bottom of the seat is parallel to the floor, ergo its sides must go to the same VP as the legs, not as you drew it:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jan-2012/142886-lisa-stol2-corr.jpg

You may move on to class 3. After all, you will get enough opportunity to rehearse perspective in class 3, as errors in perspective are very conspicious on cubic forms :evil:.
:wave:

[lisaastrup]

Hi Arnoud.

Glad to move on, this is not easy for me ;)

[Felisa]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2012/122109-perspective1.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2012/122109-perspective2.jpg

Arnoud - Here is the first part of lesson 2, I am working on the chair and table and will post them shortly. Thank you.

[arnoud3272]

Elisa - Well done, it is clear you understand the basics :clap:. What causes perspective errors in most cases is not looking at every set of parallel lines. If they are almost in the plane of the picture - like boxes 1 and 2 - it's safe to ignore them, but for box 3 it is already critical.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2012/142886-elisa-perspective-corr.jpg

Observing your drawing attentively, you will see even without constructing vanishing lines that box 3 looks distorted.
P.S. The gremlins were active again :(. Your previous posts have disappeared - but I did see them :thumbsup:.

[mayana]

Hello Arnoud,
Here are my HW, I quite struggle with the boxes which are not straight but above all I amhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2012/164039-HW1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Feb-2012/164039-HW2.jpg having fun, thanks for this great class:thumbsup:

[arnoud3272]

mayana - Good job :clap:. You have a good eye for proportions.
I'd like to see the "4-boxes" exercise.
:wave:

[mayana]

Hello Arnoud,
Thanks for asking my boxes...gee I almost could not imagine the view to top...these boxes will help me to draw houses later on.
Many thanks :thumbsup:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2012/164039-boxess.jpeg

[arnoud3272]

Well done, mayana :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[Felisa]

Arnoud, here is my submission of the chair. Thank you for your comments.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2012/122109-chair.jpg

[Felisa]

And the table

[arnoud3272]

Elisa - Well done :clap:. It's my feeling that the EL for the chair - as drawn - is higher than where you indicated the VP. If you draw from real life, as advised, you should estimate the actual EL, literally the height of your eyes while drawing, relative to the height of the object.
Your understanding of perspective is on the required level for this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[bekkilyn]

I'm drawing my group of four boxes now, but I've gotten stuck on a question. I have one box facing forward, and three boxes at various angles. Can I use single point perspective for the one box, and then two point perspective on the other three so long as they all merge to the same horizon line? Or would they all have to be two point perspective in which case I'm not sure how to do the vanishing points for the lines that seem parallel to the horizon line?

[arnoud3272]

Rebecca - Good question :thumbsup:. There are two points that are almost never explained in tutorials and courses on perspective:
A: perspective is NOT - repeat not - a property of an object. Perspective is the result of how rays of light travel, they don't remember where they come from :lol:. For perspective you look for parallel (IRL) lines, whether real edges, as in the handbook examples of cubes, or imaginary lines connecting things, for instance telegraph poles or window sills

B: 1PP, 2PP are terms from the mathematical treatment of perspective. It is particularly wrong to apply the term to a picture, a picture can - and in most cases will - contain many VP's.
A better description for artists could be: -- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
a. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
b. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
c other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP, left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon. Each set of lines has its own VP, and remember, they can come from different objects.

:wave:

[bekkilyn]

Thank you! Your description does help to make things a bit clearer. I guess what gets me confused is that I'll look at drawings and it seems that everything in the drawing is either using one point perspective or two point perspective, but not both. Here's my drawing of the set of four boxes, and there's one box that has lines parallel to the horizon line like in the one point perspective exercise, but the rest of the scene is using two point perspective. I just wasn't sure how to draw it to get the entire scene using two point perspective. It seems like the scene may be mismatched.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2012/1024912-Boxes_5_through_8_-_Pantry_Boxes.jpg

Here are the other drawings for this lesson I've completed so far. I did a few extra boxes too.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2012/1024912-perspective_squares.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2012/1024912-Box_1_-_Nintendo_3DS.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2012/1024912-Box_2_-_Small_Chest.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2012/1024912-Boxes_3_and_4_-_Assorted.jpg

I'm working on the Kleenex box now, and will start the chair and table soon. Just wanted to make sure I was going in the right direction.

[arnoud3272]

Rebecca - Very well done :clap:. The perspective is completely correct. One remark of a more artistic nature: on "real" drawings or paintings it is better to move one of the VP's (in 2PP) father away. So close together causes an unplaisant distortion, note how the lower corner is too sharp.
You're doing very well :thumbsup:

[demitas]

Cubes and tissue box. I sketched freehand and then scanned in to find the vp since the one on the right was so far away - I found that the back right corner was way off, although the angle in the front looked right. And then after shading, I realized my vertical line on the front right wasn't quite vertical, and that screwed up the front right corner. Fixing that helped make the angle in front look more like what I thought I was seeing. :)

Included a mini version with partial vp lines.

Sorry, the shadow on the left side makes it look like the bottom left line is steeper than it actually is!

[demitas]

Of course as soon as I saw the images posted I realized I'd forgotten one of the vp lines! And now that it's drawn in I can see that my back right point should be moved to the right a bit.

[arnoud3272]

demitas - Excellent :clap:. Clearly you understand the basics very well, now let's see a coherent set of 4 boxes :thumbsup:

[demitas]

I thought I'd post my boxes before adding all the designs to make sure I have it - I'm having some trouble with the leftmost box, which was at an angle sort of facing me such that it looked like I should use 1pp, but that doesn't look quite right, either. I suspect that the little box in front blocking the corner is messing with my eyes. :)

[arnoud3272]

demitas - The boxes are fairly correctly drawn, architects with their PC's would do better, but with a clearly stiff result. I'd advise you to stop thinking in the mathematical terms of 1PP, 2PP. Read the post to Rebecca a bit higher.
:thumbsup:

[demitas]

Thanks for the reminder! I read that earlier and then neglected to apply it to my own boxes. :D

[bekkilyn]

Thanks for the comments above on my boxes, Arnoud! I finally completed what I think are the rest of the drawings of the kleenex box, table, and chair.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Mar-2012/1024912-kleenex-full-sized-final.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Mar-2012/1024912-small-end-table.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Mar-2012/1024912-Lounge-Chair.jpg

(The turned legs on the table drove me crazy! :) )

I did try to move the viewpoints farther apart, but it got difficult to judge if the lines really did converge in the right spot with the points soooo far apart, but hopefully they're close enough..er, in their far-ness!

[demitas]

Decorated version of my boxes, plus a version with the VPs drawn in.

[arnoud3272]

demitas - Everything correctly drawn :clap:.
(The turned legs on the table drove me crazy! :) ) Well, there are many posts throughout the thread with the advice to choose a simple rectangular table and chair :lol:.
Well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[bekkilyn]

Hee hee, for whatever insane reason in my head, I thought the table would be pretty simple. After all, it was a small table and how complicated could a few curves in legs be? :)

See you in class 3!

[demitas]

I'm glad this is a go-at-your-own-pace class, since the last few weeks my pace has been very slow!

This seemed okay on paper but after scanning I think the left/front and right sides are both okay on their own, but have different vps when compared to each other. :\ I feel like moving one corner of the table would probably fix it, but I'm not sure which one.

[arnoud3272]

demitas - Well done :clap:. As you felt, there is a small error, but it is not what you thought. It is a very common error: the back foot is not correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Apr-2012/142886-demitas-table-corr.jpg

To visualize without VP construction, imagine it as a cubic form with big holes in the sides.

[demitas]

Thank you! I thought for sure the back foot shouldn't be LONGER since the usual problem seems to be that it's too long. :D

I don't have a straight back chair anywhere in my house - will a photo reference do or should I go to the next lesson?

[arnoud3272]

I don't have a straight back chair anywhere in my house - will a photo reference do or should I go to the next lesson? You worked very well in this class, yes, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

[cardan]

I found this so hard!:eek:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Apr-2012/1050392-boxes.jpg

[arnoud3272]

cardan - It would be less hard if you start with the simple things :).
It is important to read the assignments and advices at the start of the thread, and also a few of the comments and remarks on other pupils' work.
In particular:
-- use vanishing lines; after a few hundred exercises you see what is wrong on sight, but in the beginning our eyes are playing tricks.
-- father away looks smaller: when almost horizontal, parallel is OK, but in some places the back edge is larger than the front :(
-- there can be only one eye level, your VP's are all over the place :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Apr-2012/142886-cardan-boxes.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[cardan]

You're right arnoud! I did do the first exercise with the wireframe boxes but lost my way when I tried to do 4 at once.

I did the eyeballing and then tried to make it work, but I think I will have to reread the notes and some supplemental stuff because I'm terribly confused! For instance, is there a distance I should put my boxes to avoid confusing my eyes? Mine were a little more than half a metre away. How do I keep the eye level the same as I shift my focus around a scene? I think I'm having trouble with keeping my view of things as a flat image not in 3D.

I will post what I did for the first exercise and draw the individual boxes. I hope with a little more reading and practice I will get it! Thanks for looking at my drawing!

[arnoud3272]

... is there a distance I should put my boxes to avoid confusing my eyes?
It all depends on the size of the objects. Half a meter is fine for a matchbox, but would be hopeless for a house.
.... How do I keep the eye level the same The short answer is just keep your head still :lol:.

Well, remember one of the advises: draw first, then correct with perspective. At that moment you choose the eye level on your drawing that pleases you most and adapt the other VP's if needed, to put them at the same level.
The value of perspective is that you can draw accurately without the need for elaborate measuring of every size.
:wave:

[CFH]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2012/1052992-IMAG0453.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2012/1052992-IMAG0451.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2012/1052992-IMAG0450.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Oakenhorse - Nice try, but it looks as if there is a basic misunderstanding on what vanishing lines are supposed to be. They are just tools, showing you the exact size that the edges should have. Edges can be real, physical, edges - or imaginary lines connecting the ends of e.g. telegraph poles, or chair legs for that matter :lol:. You copied the textbook examples correctly, but on the chair you drew a bunch of non-functional lines, they don't show you how long the back leg should be, and so on.
This is how that kind of non-functional lines would look on the textbook example:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Apr-2012/142886-decoration.jpg

It would certainly help to look at other pupils' work. I think that is the biggest advantage of this style of remote class, that you can learn from each other.
:wave:

[Panth]

Hi, here are my drawings for Lesson 2 assignment. I drew the boxes and chair without taking horizon or VP, but only through observation. How to get these? The building, I found the horizon and VPs, the flash from the camera is blurring out the pics. :wave: Prabha

[arnoud3272]

Prabha - I will summarize several pieces of advice given very often in this thread:
A. do draw vanishing lines, and draw them with a ruler, not freehand.
-- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
B. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
C. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
D. other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP, left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon. Each set of lines has its own VP, and remember, they can come from different objects.

The purpose of this class is not to learn architecturally correct perspective. But often you feel that something is wrong with a rectangular object and cannot find it. Then some basic knowledge of perspective "tricks" can help you.
Examples:
In this drawing there are errors against point B above

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-May-2012/142886-panth-kleenex-corr.jpg

And here the VL's clearly show where your eyes played tricks.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-May-2012/142886-panth-chair-corr.jpg

The acid test - particularly about point D - is the set of 4 boxes. I very much would like to see it.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[netta13542]

]Here are my drawings for class two. The chair was difficult but I might try again a later time. I did the tissue box, tv and the table from the book. I also have a house that I did from a drawing book.

[arnoud3272]

Netta - Please read the principles that I explained in the comments just before your post, they will be useful for you too.
Now, the motto of this classroom is "draw what you see". Although I cannot see what you see, the kleenex box and the TV are so against the laws of physics that I cannot believe you saw it. Unless you missed the point that (basic, in this class) perspective can only be applied to rectangular forms. I would expect the sides of a box to be vertical.

[Panth]

Thank you Arnoud, I will try again, and send you drawings of boxes tomorrow. :-) Prabha

[netta13542]

Here is my tv and tissue box redo and I also did the practice page from the book.

[erreabea]

Good day Arnoud, I am back to class, I really missed it.
These are some of my exercises: The exercise 1 that is to look at something from different eye levels. i chose a stool, the fist two sights were using 2PP and very low Eye level lying down on the floor; one with the vanishing points further away each other, and the other closer. The effect is dramatic, the second one looks closer like if you are almost under it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2012/973125-stool1.jpg
Then, I sat and had an upper eye level (I also used the 2PP diagonal view)this is the third drawing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2012/973125-stool2.jpg
The fourth drawing was a 3PP standing close to the stool and with the highest eye level.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2012/973125-stool3.jpg
Using ruler is much easier, but i didn't know how to measure properly on the diagonals and how to change the height, i just guessed. I also want to know when i must choose a 3PP in situations like this. only with really close things at higher and lower distance from the eye level?:confused:
Thank you for your comments

Andrés

[erreabea]

Hello Arnoud. This is the exercise 2, boxes (in this case cubes) with central perspective and different distances and positions. I found this 90° circle of view technique that is very useful to draw perfect cubes even with rotated, but the size of the circle confuses me, because it is related to the "station point" that i understand is the ground surface ¿:confused: ?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-May-2012/973125-Ex2101class2.jpg
And also, that this 1PP has limitations and distort the solids outside the circle of view. so I change the dimensions of the circle (in blue) and i found that all sizes change (the cube looses depth) it seems like it is further away. although the size makes it look closer. I am confused with the distance since not all the biggest are the closest.

[arnoud3272]

Netta - OK, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[arnoud3272]

Andrés - Oh oh, this is on a far higher level than required for this basic class :clap::lol:. Well done indeed :thumbsup:.
I also want to know when i must choose a 3PP Two answers:
-- if you work for illustration, cartoons, comics, you use it for everything big and high. Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.
-- the traditional point of view is that vertical lines stay vertical, unless the artist chooses 3PP for its dramatic effect, well-known example is the holy cross painting by Dali.

the size of the circle confuses me, because it is related to the "station point" The size of the circle is proportional to the distance between the observer and the object. (The station point is where the observer stands). Naturally, the foreshortening becomes more pronounced when you increase that distance.

Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[erreabea]

Hello Arnoud. thank you for the answers, but I did not get what you meant by
Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.

I thought that the problem of the camera pictures was that when they are used too close to the object the picture has proportion problems, not that the type of camera could be the reason.

On the other hand, I did the other exercises for this class and I wanted to post them before moving on to class 3, because I spent some time doing them and, by the way, I have other questions about them. :rolleyes: (I am sorry to bother you with so many questions) :o
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2012/973125-TV.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2012/973125-kleenex.jpg
In the exercise of the four boxes in different positions, I tried to make two drawings with different eye levels of the same arrangement but the second one with higher horizon looks distorted because I don´t get how to measure the depth properly and finally I get something deeper than what it was expected, for example the book looks totally strange, that also happened in the drawing of the television.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2012/973125-boxes.jpg
Besides, I struggle to know how these boxes can be rotated. How I change their position moving the VP's to rotate them without distort them. because at first I thought that to turn the box to the left I should move the VP's together to the left the same distance on the horizon line, but it didn't work. Then, I thought that I have to keep the angle but it involves angle rulers and it becomes intricate, so, How can I do that?

About the guest lecture series, I was trying the exercise of the archs and columns in sequence and I wonder if one can use in drawings like this both types of linear perspective (1PP and 2PP) in the same picture, like a panorama view.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-May-2012/973125-columns.jpg
As you can see above, I did a set of columns and the left side has a very close vanishing point that can turn into the VP of a 1PP and if going further to the left, that point could be the right vanishing point of a 2PP of the sequence continuing to the left. Can this be done? :confused: Although I know that central perspective must have the beams and floor parallel to the horizon line, could the diagonals of both 2PP sides intercept in that central point view and somehow become one parallel line for a 1PP?

Again, thank you for your time and comments.

Andrés

[arnoud3272]

Andrés - Good job, you're very dedicated :clap::clap:.
I did not get what you meant by
Quote:
Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.

I thought that the problem of the camera pictures was that when they are used too close to the object the picture has proportion problems, not that the type of camera could be the reason.
I answered your question about 3PP. Look at any amateur photo of a tower - and sadly more and more professionals as well - and it is in 3PP. But the traditional opinion is that vertical lines should be drawn/painted vertically. Professional cameras have special adjustments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera#Movements) to put the perspective right. Of course, in the digital era you corrrect it afterwards in Photoshop or GIMP.
I don´t get how to measure the depth properly and finally I get something deeper than what it was expected How to construct the depth accurately is very complcated geometrics, but why should you as an artist? use your artistic feeling. You said it was deeper than you felt it should be, shorten it - the VL's to the other VP will shift, that is all :thumbsup:.
I thought that to turn the box to the left I should move the VP's together to the left the same distance on the horizon line, but it didn't work. Definitely not, as you saw. The far VP is moving faster away than the near VP moves to the center. How much? as above, draw a pleasing picture. I guess you forget one of the advices from the beginning of the thread: draw first, only check with perspective, don't use perspective to construct. This is basic perspective, remember? Only architects construct a 3D drawing geometrically from plan and elevation.

I wonder if one can use in drawings like this both types of linear perspective (1PP and 2PP) in the same picture Forget the terms 1PP, 2PP, these are mathematical concepts. Never apply them to a picture. Far better:
-- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
A. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
B. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
C. other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP, left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon. Each set of lines has its own VP, and remember, they can come from different objects.
:thumbsup:

[Panth]

Hi Arnoud, couldn't do any homework, as I was busy at my college. But I've been driving everyone crazy at home by drawing boxes on any paper lying around. Hope I've got it right this time! It is more difficult than it looks, really!:o
Anyway here are my boxes again. The pictures came out at an angle, I'm not a good photographer, so I had to adjust the base line. Hope I pass this time!! Prabha

[arnoud3272]

Prabha - Good job, very well done :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[Panth]

Thank you Arnoud! I appreciate the time and effort you put in to teach us, and look into each drawing, giving your suggestions, and help! :-) Prabha

[ElleZ]

Hi Arnoud,

I think I have completed Class 2, here are my pieces.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_005.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_004.JPG
Tissue Boxes...http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_003.JPG
Boxes no perspective done on this, as I was unsure...http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_002.JPG
4+ Boxes...http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_014.JPG
and my table and chair 'Perspective 1st...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-tableChairperspective.jpg
Errors fixed on my Table and Chair that showed with my perspective...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-class2WC_018.JPG
I had fun but had to keep reminding myself to draw first then do the perspective when finished. Thanks for looking, and let me know if I need to fix something. :wave:
Cheers,
Elle

[arnoud3272]

Elle - you worked very hard :clap:.
But it is so much more efficient to post intermediate results. Now you continued with the same misunderstandings.
Foremost, it may sound bizarre, but stop using the names 1PP, 2PP, 3PP. Those terms belong to the mathematical treatment of perspective, and are confusing if applied to a complete picture. Even applied to a single object that is not "cubic"; this is 2PP (there is VP far off the paper):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/142886-HEX-PERSPECTIVE.JPG
Likewise, this is not 3PP, it is 2PP:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/142886-elle-3PP.JPG

But following my own advice, I'll now stop using those terms :lol:.

We treat only basic perspective in this class, excluding slanted edges or planes.
Then we have these principles:
-- parallel lines in the plane of the picture, seen straight on, do not converge.
-- all lines square to the plane - definitely they run parallel - converge to the same (central) VP. It is acceptable for artists to apply this to lines that are almost square to the plane of the picture :).
-- all other sets of parallel lines converge to their own VP, but all VP's lie on the same horizon line.

On your drawings, you very often forgot to look at all sets of parallel lines (corrections in blue):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/142886-elle-tissue.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/142886-elle-2boxes.JPG

I'm confused by your table drawing, is that a chair at the back?

As to your question about drawing a rectangle first: no, don't think "rectangle", think "cube" - don't think "circle", think "cylinder" or "sphere" - don't think "triangle", think "pyramid" or "cone" :thumbsup:. Think 3-dimensional, not 2-dimensional. Well, for classical realistic style. Comics, illustration or modern fine art is another story :lol:.

Keep up the good work :).

[ElleZ]

Hi Arnoud,
This is a photo of my table with a window behind it, so no, there is no chair there.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-May-2012/150751-table-chair_002.JPG
I hope this helps your confusion.

I am not sure of what you mean by 1pp 2pp 3pp as I never used those terms at all. I did use the VPL and VPR on my practice pieces which I copied from one of the links, either here or that I found.
BTW, I have been using a B pencil the whole way through, I forgot to let you know.
But it looks like I need to go back and redo a few of these lessons, to get them right.
Thanks for the c & c, it helps me to learn.

Cheers,
Elle

[ElleZ]

Hi Arnoud,

This is one of the sites I looked at in regard to Perspective, www . drawinghowtodraw.com/stepbystepdrawinglessons/2011/09/basics-of-1-point-and-2-point-perspective-aka-parallel-and-angular-perspective-lesson/....... I dont think I read it properly the first time though.. as I now know what the PP stands for. I must not have saved the link where I copied the first practice drawing I did. I am going to do some more reading as I feel it is still confusing. I also understand what you mean by "As to your question about drawing a rectangle first: no, don't think "rectangle", think "cube" - don't think "circle", think "cylinder" or "sphere" " as I should have drawn a cube around my table and chair, then fixed my errors, now I will go off and do that to see what I still need to fix on these two drawings.
Thanks for pointing all this out,
Cheers,
Elle

[arnoud3272]

Elle - To continue on the table...
Unless you had a very lousy carpenter, the top of the table is parallel to the floor :lol:. Ergo, lines connecting the feet run parallel to the top. They must share the same VP.
Compare drawing and reference:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-May-2012/142886-elle-table.jpg

A very common tendency is to draw receding planes too deep.
:wave:

[ElleZ]

Hi Arnoud,

OK then, I have tried a few (more than 6)lol, to get this table correct. Below is my outline with what I have, but it still seems off to me.....:( .
I feel the slant of the front legs is too much and the back legs are either too long, and not in the correct position or even both. I will wait until I hear from you and your comments in regards to the sketch, before completing it.
I will go back to work on the 2 box drawing and fix that up, in the meantime. I had to straigthen up the pic, I seem always to wobbled as I snap the photo.
Thanks for your time in this.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2012/150751-table-NEW01.jpg

Cheers,
Elle

[arnoud3272]

Elle - Technically speaking (the construction of the VL's), the perspective is OK. But you fell into a very common trap. The biggest mistake when working from photos is trying to copy it literally. Do you have a table in house with two legs collapsed in ? Beware of camera distortions !
Personally, I would draw it with more foreshortening, the top still shallower.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2012/142886-elle-table-NEW01.gif
:thumbsup:

[ElleZ]

Hi Arnoud,
I have attached my re-do of one of the tissue boxes, and the stack of 2 boxes.
As I live with my family, including granddaughter, I set the object/s up, photograph, then do a rough sketch, then usually work from the photo. I will re-set my granddaughter's table up, sometime soon, and get a quick sketch done of it. The table is rectangled, but looking at your picture of it, it seems more square.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2012/150751-boxes_001.jpg

Cheers,
Elle

[ElleZ]

ooppsssy.
Posted the wrong photo above (in previous message)

Here are the photos I meant to post.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2012/150751-boxes-right_001.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-May-2012/150751-tissue-right_01.jpg
I hope these are right..... sorry about posting the wrong one above.

[arnoud3272]

Elle -
The table is rectangled, but looking at your picture of it, it seems more square. But I didn't follow the photo, just put some lines down :).

Your re-working is completely correct. As far as I'm concerned you are ready to move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[ElleZ]

Thanks Arnoud,
I have completed the table though, so will post both pre-finish and post-finish, just to be sure, thankyou. I am this time around, very pleased with the table results...I didn't do the b/g of it though, just the table shading only.
lol, at just put some lines down..... I wasn't only looking at the photo, I try as much as possible to draw from the real things. Sometimes it gets a bit hard with a 2yr old running around though; which is why I end up referring to photos.
I will post the table pictures later on.
Thanks for your input, it does help heaps.
Cheers,
Elle

[ElleZ]

Perspective of Table...:clap:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-May-2012/150751-pre-table_00.jpg
Finished table...:thumbsup:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-May-2012/150751-post-table_003.jpg
If this is now correct, I will move on to Class three and will see you there.
Cheers,
Elle :crossfingers:

[arnoud3272]

Elle - The perspective is completely correct, very well done :clap:.

[ElleZ]

Thanks Arnoud, see you in Class 3....

[jop1936]

Class 2
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2012/1070172-Save0002.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2012/1070172-Save0001.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2012/1070172-Save.JPG

[arnoud3272]

jop - Good job. You understand one of the basics: further away looks smaller. But look out for the second important principle: how many eye levels has a normal human being? Unless you follow modern (e.g. cubist) styles, drawings and paintings are conceived as seen by one person, ergo there can be only one eye level.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jun-2012/142886-jop-chair.JPG

This illustrates also a common trap: not enough foreshortening. The seat of the chair should not be drawn so deep.
Many people have problems with the table, but you did it correctly :thumbsup:.
Can I see a corrected chair ?
:wave:

[jop1936]

:crossfingers: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Jun-2012/1070172-Chair0001.JPG corrected view of my chair. Joyce

[arnoud3272]

Joyce - Excellent :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[ricksherny]

Perspective, Table, Chair and my Kleenex box.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jun-2012/1072372-perspective.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jun-2012/1072372-bbtable.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jun-2012/1072372-chair.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jun-2012/1072372-puffs.jpg

[arnoud3272]

ricksherny - A good start :thumbsup:.
As everybody else, you faithfully copied the textbook examples. But where are the VL's in your other exercises? In learning perspective it is essential to use VL's to check what you draw. That table should be very easy, after all it is a cube with large holes in the side. But if I draw the VL's for you, it looks completely different then the textbook examples :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Jun-2012/142886-rick-bbtable.jpg

The other exercises are reasonably correct, but I think the convergence of the VL's is very weak. It looks more like a kinda isometric projection (used by engineers) in which the sides are kept parallel. But architects and artists draw in perspective, "further away looks smaller".
:wave:

[ricksherny]

I see what you mean on my table there. I am going to start from scratch and maybe a different angle on the table. I have added the lines to my Kleenex box and Chair. The chair I may need to work on a little bit more to, the more I look at it the less I like the seat, I think the left side should be lower. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/1072372-chair.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/1072372-puffs.jpg

[arnoud3272]

ricksherny - The textbook examples of cubes with their VL's for the first assignment are meant to explain you how to construct VL's, not just for copying.
I have the impression that you are not yet sure what a VL is.
See here your chair and a textbook cube juxtaposed:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/142886-rick-chair.jpg

Same for the kleenex box:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/142886-rick-puffs.jpg

The horizontal lines on the chair drawing are indeed VL's strictly formally speaking. But as they do not converge - the VP lies in infinity - it is normally not shown; you know fairly well how to draw a horizontal line without the need to lengthen it.
:wave:

[ricksherny]

I will admit it is hard for me to get used to making the more distant items smaller; it either doesn't look right to me or I am afraid that the VP will too close or too far.

After looking at my two drawings and the lines you have put in, my table was more correct than my chair and box. I will work on them more and I am not even going to post my current table, I can see it is wrong already...:(

[ricksherny]

Ok, redid the chair admittedly a little quick, but I think I am getting the idea down. Here is the chair:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/1072372-chair3.jpgAfter adding in the lines I see that on the left side I should have brought in the legs closer together so that the left side of the seat would be shallower. Before I work on the others I want to make sure that I am on the correct path here.

[docxart]

Hi
Here is my attempt at the assignments for class 2.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2012/1074922-Class_2_001.jpg

What do you think?
Qadir

[arnoud3272]

...I think I am getting the idea down.
.... Before I work on the others I want to make sure that I am on the correct path here. Yes, I'm sure you understood correctly :thumbsup:.

As you saw yourself, the perspective on the chair is not mathematically correct, but that is OK for quick sketches, as long as the general direction is correct. In fact it gives some liveness, while completely correct drawings, e.g. architects' "artist's impressions", often look clinical and cold.
:wave:

[arnoud3272]

Qadir - Completely correct perspective :clap:.
One remark, of an aesthetic nature: observe how you get an unpleasant distortion when you put the VP's too close together. In fact, the drawings of table and chair cannot be realistic: there is no way in which the front corner can be sharper than 90°. It is OK in this class, to show exactly that you understand perspective, but for "real" drawings, put at least one VP outside the borders of your drawing. You can tape another sheet at the side, or, with some experience, just "eyeball" it.
There is one very common error by people who understand the first principles of perspective. To check it, I'd like to see the "4 boxes" exercise. Not separate boxes, but a kind of "still live", one coherent drawing :thumbsup:

[docxart]

Ok, I'll do the four boxes drawing as you suggested.

[docxart]

Qadir -
There is one very common error by people who understand the first principles of perspective. To check it, I'd like to see the "4 boxes" exercise. Not separate boxes, but a kind of "still live", one coherent drawing :thumbsup:

Here is my drawing of the four boxes

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jun-2012/1074922-Class_2_001.jpg

Qadir

[arnoud3272]

Qadir - Well done :clap:.
Generally the perspective is correct and coherent :thumbsup:.
But two places are far off from the theoretical direction:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2012/142886-qadir-boxes.jpg

Good job in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[ricksherny]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2012/1072372-OneBox.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2012/1072372-Tables.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jun-2012/1072372-boxstudy.jpg

[arnoud3272]

ricksherny -
You may move on to class 3.

[Amber Q]

Here are my attempts for class 2

Practice boxes with 1pp

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jun-2012/1085432-Wet_Canvas_001.jpg
4 chosen boxes (I think I got lazy on some boxes or tried too hard on some:lol: )
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jun-2012/1085432-Wet_Canvas_002.jpg
A chair from my kitchen
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jun-2012/1085432-Wet_Canvas_003.jpg
A stool (I couldnt use my dining room table. The little things underneath the stool are supports)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jun-2012/1085432-Wet_Canvas_004.jpg
Overall I think I'm improving slightly, perspective for me is pretty weak as well as shading properly.

What say you arnoud?:cool:

[arnoud3272]

Amber - Your practical understanding of perspective is definitely on a sufficient level for artists :thumbsup:.
Well done, please move on to class 3 :clap:.

[LostInMemories]

My attempt for class 2.

753192
753202
753212

As many of us here, I had some problems with understanding how to draw edges of boxes if your Vp too far away. I guess there's something wrong with the right side of my nokia box.

753222

And if I understood right, we can have as many Vp's as many object we have? Of course we can have all our objects with 1 the same Vp but it also possible to have for example 4 objects with 4 different Vp's right?

[arnoud3272]

Vladimir - Well done, almost correct :clap:.
With VP's very far off, it is OK to estimate roughly how the VL's run. Most important is that you don't draw the other way round, the back edge cannot be larger than the front; but it looks not very off if they have the same size.
I see a very common error: "there can be only one Eye Level"
Its not very apparent in this drawing, but it is important to keep it in mind. Most perspective problems like "it doesn't look right but I cannot see why" are due to this error.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jul-2012/142886-vladimir-boxes.jpg

And if I understood right, we can have as many Vp's as many object we have? There is a very common misunderstanding - almost never mentioned in tutorials: perspective is not - repeat not - a property of objects. The rays of light do not remember where they come from :lol:. One should look for sets of parallel lines - real or imaginary, e.g. between the legs of a table.
Summary: -- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
a. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
b. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
c other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon.
All lines in a set of parallel lines have a common VP. But every set of lines has its own VP.

You did very well in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[LostInMemories]

Thank you Arnoud for quick respond and explanation, I get it now :thumbsup:

About my boxes...I checked the EL line before posting and everything was fine, so I believe you have misunderstood how the right edge of nokia box is going. Because of the box of paints on the top.

(And for box of paints I used 2pp)

Check this out. Am I right?
753412

[arnoud3272]

Check this out. Am I right? Yes, OK. No problem :thumbsup:.

[Nephrin]

Here are my drawings for the class 2 assignment.

753472

753482

753442

753452

753462

This has been a difficult lesson for me, but I know it's important to try and understand this early on. For the 4 boxes, I just drew them how I saw them first and then tried to align it with perspective lines (which I guessed at). For the others, I started by drawing the perspective lines (making a V shape from the horizon first). For that reason, the boxes might be the least accurate with perspective lines.

When I look at a picture I want to draw, I have difficulty identifying vanishing points. I also am uncertain as to where I should start drawing the picture. Whenever I planned to draw a picture for this lesson, these are the steps I would take:

1.) I would look to see where eye-level is. If I saw the top of the object, I knew the horizon line was above it, and if I saw the bottom of an object, I knew the horizon line was below it. So for the packages, for instance, the horizon line would be below them since I can't see the top of them.

2.) After finding eye-level, I would try to find the vanishing point(s) on the horizon line. I try to look for parallel lines that may lead me to it, but it's not always clear cut for me. For the packages example, I figure it's 2 point perspective because I can see the sides of the packages, but I'm not sure where the vanishing points should be. Would they even be on the paper?

3.) After determining vanishing points, I would start drawing the object and use them mostly for deciding the angle of diagonal lines. I drew horizontal lines parallel to the horizon and vertical lines perpendicular to the horizon. I started out connecting the 2 VPs in a V shape for the Table and Chair drawings. For the Kleenex box, I did one-point perspective and started with a square before connecting it to the VP.

I'm willing to do more to understand this material. I just figure it's something that's important. Are there steps that you use as far as how you start off that can be applied to all drawings?

Thank you for taking the time to evaluate my drawings and answer my questions. As a complete novice, I appreciate it :)

[arnoud3272]

Nephrin - Looks like you understand the basic principles, the furniture drawn from imagination are completely correct :clap:. One advice, of an aesthetic nature, don't design your VP's so closely together, it results in an unpleasant distortion. The front lower corner cannot become sharper than 90 °.

When drawing from life, first draw, then correct. Don't try to find the VP's before drawing. For the correction, find the VP's, it doesn't make sense to search for the EL, the VP's lie on the EL. You have the VP's, you have the EL. Now most often the VP's do not lie all on the same horizontal. Then you have to chose one, and correct all VL's so that the VP's lie on the one and only EL.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jul-2012/142886-nephrin.jpg

I started that on your "4-boxes" drawing. Even for individual boxes, the left and right VP's did not come on the same EL (for instance box 1, red lines). I chose the right VP of box 1, then corrected its left VL's (blue). Corrected the left side of box 2 as well (green), and stopped because it became too entangled. But I think you get the idea :).
You understand enough for this class, and next class is another exercise in perspective anyway. So please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[Leenz]

Hi,
Some of my practice for perspective:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jul-2012/1082732-Sketching002.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jul-2012/1082732-Sketching008.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jul-2012/1082732-Sketching010.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jul-2012/1082732-Sketching001.JPG
Regards,
Leena.
C & C Welcome.

[arnoud3272]

Leena - Looks good :clap:.
Only point is that the very sketchy nature makes it difficult for me to judge whether you fully understand perspective. Particularly the dice, looks as if the camera was not pointing straight to the drawing.
I see one error; remember "further away looks smaller". The front corner is definitely nearer to us than the two other corners. So the eaves should converge, not diverge:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Jul-2012/142886-leena-spire.JPG

I'd like to see the "4-boxes" exercise. Not separate objects, but one coherent drawing, kind of still life. And draw it from life, not from imagination. Draw first, then check and correct with VL's. That is a general principle: best method to improve is to draw first, then measure and correct.
:wave:

[edwardII]

Been doing some of the class assignment and whenever I start doing the cubes it can become a bit addictive :D

I was unable to draw a TV from physical model as I no longer have one of the box style toobs :( But I was able to find a shoe box a Lord of the Rings boxed set and two others for the 4 boxes. I will be able to provide more as I am going to keep up with this for practice even after moving on in class.

Here are the pics:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2012/1033622-cube_perspective.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2012/1033622-TV+boxes_perspective.jpg

And to Leenz, I really like the cereal container that you drew...or whatever that container holds :)

[arnoud3272]

Edward - Good job :clap:. You seem to understand perspective very well :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 3 :music:.

[dahlialia]

Here are my cubes:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/309944/blog/2012/WC02-01%20drawing.jpg

And boxes (doing these made my brain hurt! but I guess I learned a lot):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/309944/blog/2012/WC02-02%20drawing.jpg

Table, from a perspective below:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/309944/blog/2012/WC02-03%20drawing.jpg

Chair, from a high perspective:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/309944/blog/2012/WC02-04%20drawing.jpg

[arnoud3272]

dahlialia - Nicely done :clap:.
I see you understand the basic perspective without problem, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[edwardII]

Arnoud said " you seem to understand perspective very well" :) I have just that, a decent understanding of perspective but I get lazy at times and let it interfere with an, otherwise good composition. I will work on not being lazy and learning a better technique for 2+3 point perspective, thanks arnoud...moving on!!!!

To Dahlialia, I am really impressed with your chair and the boxes too, especially the Altoids:)

[meganj]

First drawing is boxes against eye level. I now understand how one point perspective can be dynamic! 2 of my boxes are from 2-point perspective, and the rest are one point, and I didn't get that until this morning. Comic book characters, here I come! I'm so pleased that I figured out what I'm doing. Darn it, lost a drawing in here somewhere!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2012/67498-VP1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2012/67498-tissue_box_102.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Excellent application of perspective, Megan :clap::clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[meganj]

This makes so much sense to me until I do it. Here's my reference photo, angles are close to what I was drawing, and then my drawing from the stack of boxes. The fore-shortening on my bottom two boxes becomes too much if I use what I think should be the vanishing point. What do I do to fix this?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2012/67498-102_reference_drawing.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2012/67498-102_stack_of_boxes.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Megan - First, as I see it, the horizon line runs through box 2, not box 1. But that is on the reference, there is no objection to change it on the drawing, on condition that the perspective of all lines follow.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Aug-2012/142886-megan_reference.jpg

It is very important to understand that photos are not the reality. Particularly cheap lenses, and taking the photo in close up, will distort the perspective. The best advice is to sketch from life. Although even the lens in the human eye will make the same errors if looking too close.
So sketch first, then correct with perspective; and if the result is not "nice", adapt it, move the HL to give a better result. Don't feel obliged to draw something "because it is there", or because the photo shows it like that.

[micko45]

Hi,

See attached for my efforts for class 2, I think I have the basics of it but then again :-)

Arnoud, as said by many others here, thanks again for spending the time to look at these.

Rgds
Michael.

[Tavs@hrida]

Hi,

Here are my sketches for class 2.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Aug-2012/983339-P10205891.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Aug-2012/983339-P10205921.jpg Couldn't finish the chair in one go...but still thought of posting it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Aug-2012/983339-P10205961.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Aug-2012/983339-P10206011.jpg

Hope I got it right :)

Happy Friendship day to all at Wetcanvas!!

Tavleen

[arnoud3272]

Michael - Well done :clap:.
The perspective of all the assignments is technically correct. But for real drawings remember to put the VP's farther away from each other. For instance the kleenex box is much too distorted. When a VP is far off the sheet, it is no problem to imagine the VL's as parallel lines.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[arnoud3272]

Tavleen - Good job.
You faithfully copied the textbook cubes. But a table is nothing more than a cube with big holes in the side :lol:. Hence the top and the bottom (the legs) must converge to the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Aug-2012/142886-tavs-table.jpg

And it is important to develop a gut feeling for "further away looks smaller".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Aug-2012/142886-tavs-boxes.jpg

Next class is a kinda rehearsel on perspective, so please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[blue falcon]

what a struggle this was :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_ex1_001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_ex2_001002.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_ex3_001001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_ex4_001001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Hard work Paul :thumbsup:
I'm a bit puzzled. Some of these are very good, but I'm not sure you understood what linear perspective is about.
"Further away looks smaller"; artists knew that already a long time before the "invention" of linear perspective. Linear perspective, the vanishing lines, is a tool to know easily how much smaller. I really don't see the relation of for instance this and further away looks smaller.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Aug-2012/142886-paul-puzzle.jpg

I really like to see the "4 boxes" exercise. Not separate boxes, but a consistent whole, a kind of still life.
:thumbsup:.

[blue falcon]

hi Arnoud
thanks for the explanation, i did some homework:)
and this is my result

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_dozen_001001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Paul - More important than the exact geometric construction of the VL's is a gut feeling for "Further away looks smaller"
Now look at what you have drawn :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Aug-2012/142886-paul_dozen.jpg
Until you get more experience and can see it freehand, you should carefully draw at least the beginning of the VL's, as I have shown above.
Parallel sides are acceptable in engineering drawings, but they are not in perspective. But diverging sides are definitely "against nature".
:wave:

[blue falcon]

thanks arnoud i keep on trying :wink2:

[blue falcon]

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2012/1096342-sized_dozen_001002.jpg Hello Arnoud
here's another effort i didn't use a ruler this time;)

[arnoud3272]

Paul - Relax, you're too eager to decorate your drawing with all kinds of converging lines. Let's go one step at a time. This session:
A; - this should be obvious - "further away looks smaller". But the lines on your drawing that could have the function of VL's (emphasized in red) work exactly the other way round, the back edges will be larger than the front :(.
B. VL's are only there to show you how much smaller. The lines that I emphasized in green - and many others - are showing exactly nothing of that kind :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2012/142886-paul-dozen.jpg
You copied the textbook examples faithfully, but after all, they are not intended to be copied merely, they should teach you how to construct VL's correctly. A line starting on a corner and going somewhere can as well go somewhere else :lol:. A VL connects at least two points with the VP, or continues in the same direction as the edge towards the VP.
Good luck with your further study :thumbsup:.

[pratya.amrit]

hey arnoud here are my class 2 practice sketchs..
jst a question "how to use a chalk pencil?" jst being curious coz i recently got one.. :D

[arnoud3272]

Very good job, Pratya :clap:.
"how to use a chalk pencil?" I'd suggest to google for "aux trois crayons"
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[pratya.amrit]

thnx arnoud for ur valuable suggestion. :)
will meet u in class 3. :)

[SoftRoses]

Whoo-eee this is a mind bender for me! Ok before I go any further, is it okay to start here? I found the first part easy, drawing a square or rectangle and doing a HL and a VP. I find that I don't know why I chose that to be the HL or why I chose that spot to be the VP, I just chose them.

Now, the tissue box. I read the post that said, do your sketch first then correct it with perspective. Well, I'm confused. Eyeballing that box, I sketched it the best I knew how. But "perpective-ing" it doesn't change the original sketch. It just creates lines going to the edge points of what is obviously an improper sketch.

So, is the perspective application only there (meaning, we use it only to) get the proper lessening of height and width at the "farthest away" points? Not to "create" a proper sketch to begin with?

I am wondering if I am trying to learn something a step ahead of myself and need to learn first how to sketch a box? Any help is as always appreciated!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Sep-2012/231512-VP_squares_and_recs_800x602.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Sep-2012/231512-Kleenex_box_800x602.jpg

[SoftRoses]

Light Bulb moment!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I think, maybe I am getting this.

Here is some further practice. To me the stack of three books seems wrong. Book 1 looks fine. Book 2 and 3 look like they are leaning upwards toward the viewer. Can you explain why this is? All of these were sketched from my brain not from looking at a stack of books......

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Sep-2012/231512-Books_and_buildings_800x602.jpg

[arnoud3272]

SoftRoses - A good start :thumbsup:.
It just creates lines going to the edge points of what is obviously an improper sketch. That problem was tackled in the comments just before your post. But I think you found already out :clap:.
There is one additional issue: perspective ("further away looks smaller") is not selective :lol:, all sets of parallel lines converge. If they are almost square on the line of sight, it is OK to draw them parallel (books 1 and 2), but the second dimension of book 3 is definitely not correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Sep-2012/142886-Books.jpg

they are leaning upwards toward the viewer Very often, particularly when drawing from imagination, there is not enough foreshortening. (i.e. compressed in the depth)

For the table, consider that it is nothing more than a cube with big holes in the sides. Likewise for the seat and legs of the chair.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[netta13542]

Class two

776452

776462

776472

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Netta, you're off to a good start :clap:. I'm looking forward to the "still life" of 4 boxes :thumbsup:.

[netta13542]

class two still life boxes


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Sep-2012/1060812-boxes1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Sep-2012/1060812-boxes2.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Netta :clap:.
You're ready to move on to class 3. That class is again a study of cubes, but then in less obvious ways than boxes. Don't forget to check the perspective of what you draw in class 3 as well.
See you in next class :wave:.

[lajale]

I have done a lot of sketching and then correcting and re-correcting. So here are my cubes and boxes.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Sep-2012/1049812-Exercise_1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Sep-2012/1049812-Exercise_2.JPG

I´ll post the chair, table and tissue box later.

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Chris :clap:, the perspective looks very good :thumbsup:.

[lajale]

Thanks arnoud,

here are a tissue box, a chair and a table. I did the chair without a ruler and hope it is ok?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2012/1049812-Exercise_3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2012/1049812-Exercise_4.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2012/1049812-Exercise_5.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Chris :clap:. Almost correct.
One important thing to remember is that the basic principle of perspective "further away looks smaller" is not selective. It applies to all sets of parallel lines. OK, when the angle with the picture plane is small, as e.g. on the table, the effect is very slight and can be ignored by artists (not by architects :evil:). But the side edges and the front/back edges of your chair show about the same angle towards the viewer, so they should really converge at about the same speed. You drew them with a marked difference:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Sep-2012/142886-chris-chair.jpg

Remember, the VP's of horizontal lines lie on the EyeLevel, and there is only one EL per painting/drawing in classical academic styles.

In general, your understanding of perspective is on the required level for this introductory class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[NickyBlade]

Played around a little extra with perspective... and with my Microns. Hope that's ok. I really prefer Micron over pencil. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2012/1120422-002-1_Perspective.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2012/1120422-002-2_Perspective.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Nicky :clap:. Perspective doesn't seem to pose problems for you :thumbsup:.
Pen is OK, but of course for classes about tonal shading instead of (cross)hatching, you need a medium such as graphite, charcoal, chalk.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[NickyBlade]

Thank you! I have to be honest... before this class I really did not have a good grasp on how to draw perspective. I could tell when things looked wrong and try to correct until it was close enough. But, now I really understand! And thank you for sharing your time and talent here. I truly appreciate it.

[halhen]

Hi,

I've begun with the 1PP boxes and the table to get some feedback before getting out some boxes. I've pushed the curves a bit to get contrast from my scan.

First off, the boxes. Not a lot to say here, I think. I just hope my gut feeling that I've got this part is correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Oct-2012/1129942-Image_9.jpg

Next, the table. I chose a low viewpoint to get all four legs in the picture. This made the 2D-projected angles of the top of the table hard to measure. I had to focus a lot get the angles to kind of match what I saw. Then, I found that the VPs where a fair bit outside of the paper, so I used some marks on the table and tried to get the lines correct by extrapolating the too-short ruler. The arrows show points where I sketched free-hand that were off.

Initially, I used the wrong corner as a main anchor. I used the rightmost one (with a visible arrow) where I should have, and changed to, the topmost corner (with the erased arrow). Before this correction, the table-top turned out square, which is not at all the case. I hope you can see the final lines, even though it is a bit messy.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Oct-2012/1129942-Image_10.jpg

In addition to any mistakes I may have made, I have the four boxes exercise left to do for this class, right?

[arnoud3272]

halhen - Accurate job, well done :clap:.
Yes, I'd love to see your "4-boxes" :thumbsup:.

[halhen]

Here are my boxes. Maybe I did the drawing too small for you to judge? Let me know if you need me to make another go at it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Oct-2012/1129942-Image_12.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Henrik - Well done :clap:. You're ready to move on.
One point to remember to check: "further away looks smaller"

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Oct-2012/142886-henrik-boxes.jpg
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[Calurix]

Hi, I have done exercise 1, 2 and 3 (attached image).

I have tried to put 1 point perspective on the bottom box and 2 point on the others. When I moved from my sketch to putting in perspective lines I did find some of my lines were out a bit but not to many.

Image is certainly not the sharpest but I took the snap and cropped it on my phone, hope is clear enough on a monitor.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Oct-2012/1130852-1350382525861.jpg


Regards
Cal'

[arnoud3272]

Well done so far, Cal :clap:.
:wave:

[Calurix]

Here is my submitions for the exercises I had not yet done for this unit.

I used the chair in post eight as my reference for the chair (I intentionally missed out the spars at the bottom). I tried to keep the horizon close to the top of the chair so that worked out ok but the propertions of the chair look out.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2012/1130852-Tissue-box.jpg

I also got a better image of my boxes. The detail is as much as I can add as I don't have them in front of me.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2012/1130852-Cereal.jpg

Regards,

Cal'

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Cal :clap:.
but the proportions of the chair look out. Because of not enough foreshortening. Observe a cube in perspective that looks as a cube, not an elongated box:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2012/142886-cube-clean.jpg
the depth is much less than the breadth, contrary to the seat of your chair. You know that the seat is more or less square, and forget to draw what you really see. Getting the correct foreshortening is a very common problem in figure drawing.

You did very well in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

[Calurix]

Hi Arnoud,

Thank you for taking time to check my submitions.

If I can explain it clearly can you check if I have worked out the answer to a perspective problem (problem came about for next unit "Cubes")?

I drew a sketch without perspective for a remote control that has a bigger surface area at edge i put away from myself.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2012/1130852-Remote_Sketch.jpg

When I went to set out perspective I ran into a problem with the edge furthest from me (please excuse crudeness of image, I dont use software till now).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Oct-2012/1130852-Remote.jpg

In future should I use my 2 bottom lines to go ot to my vanishing points, then project lines from my vanishing points back to me to create cube when setting my perspective?

Thanks for your time and again I hope this makes sense.

Regards,
Cal'

[arnoud3272]

Cal - Perspective is only applicable to parallel lines. For skewed objects, the trick is to construct a rectangular box around it - or inside where that is intuitively more appropriate. Now this is not "cubic":
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2012/142886-cal-control-A.jpg

Make sure all edges of the "container" are rectangular:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Oct-2012/142886-cal-control-B.jpg

Hope this clears it up :thumbsup:.

[MooseTrax]

This is my setup with four boxes. After I got them all down on paper I noticed that all the lines weren't going consistently to the same two vanishing points. I'm thinking that the horizon line is slightly above the tops of the boxes (To get a good idea of where the horizon line is I hold my pencil to the level that my eyes are at). I tried working it out with lines in paint but all of the lines (especially from the box on the left) weren't meeting at the same two points. If you want I can add the unfinished drawing and/or the photograph with perspective lines (it's a good thing that I checked the perspective first before adding the detail, as it would have been very discouraging). If you can help me find what I'm doing wrong it would be much appreciated. Thanks!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Nov-2012/976052-boxes1.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Congratulations, Matt - you found out what teachers are telling all the time: photos are pathological liars :lol:.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Nov-2012/142886-976052-boxes1.jpg
This "barrel distortion" is only one of many errors that you encounter when trusting photos.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[matben74]

Hello. Took me a while to get round to doing this class, think I knew it was going to be a bit hard... Got to get better at getting on with it.

Thank you for making this class available to all.

[arnoud3272]

Well done, Matben :clap:.
Your efforts were worth it, I see you understand the basic principles of perspective :thumbsup:.
Please move on to class 3 :music:.

[siriusly]

Hi, sorry for the delay, i actually drew this a week ago, but I only had time to scan it now. Anyway, I didn't really understand perspective as I was reading it, but after putting it to practice, i think I'm beginning to see, though am not a 100% there yet. These are two of my drawings, I'll add in the details of the four boxes after you check it. I still have problems with drawing straight lines, but I'll keep working on it. Anyway, Just by looking at it, I know there's something wrong with the boxes, specially the two boxes on the left. So I'd like to know where I went wrong, and how I could correct it. Thanks so much for helping us :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2012/1130452-IMG_0001.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2012/1130452-IMG_0002.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Des - A good start :thumbsup:.
Perspective - as an artist, not as an architect - shouldn't be complicated. In fact, the basic principle is recognized by anyone: "further away looks smaller". It was applied by artists long before the "discovery" or "invention" of (scientific) linear perspective. Linear perspective is only a tool, you can easily check the correctness of your sketch.
Now for your boxes: first of all, sketch the complete form, including the portion that you don't see. You can erase it in the further development of the drawing. This is a very general principle, it is for instance vital for correctly drawing the human figure. Even ignoring the question whether the perspective is correct or not, it is immediately obvious from the completed form why 1 is not correct.
2: The essential way to check linear perspective is by drawing the vanishing lines, as you did in the copies of the textbook examples.
Then see: further away looks smaller ?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2012/142886-des.jpg

If you got this far, there is only one other principle to pay attention to: all mutually parallel lines converge to the same Vanishing Point. Imagine a double rail track disappearing at the horizon, it would be very queer if the four lines would split in two groups.
And horizontal lines disappear at the horizon, not in the air or in the grass :lol:.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Dec-2012/142886-one-EL.jpg

So all VP's of horizontal lines lie on the same and only horizon line or "eye level".
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

[Richd82]

Book study, boxes from around the house, and i tried doing my table, not sure if its right??
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2012/1153376-Class_2_Box_Study_in_perspective_001.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2012/1153376-Life_drawing-boxes_in_perspective_001.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2012/1153376-001.jpg

[arnoud3272]

Good job so far Richard :clap:.
Looks like you have no problems with perspective. And yes, the table is correct :thumbsup::


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2012/142886-richard-table.jpg

(But from a composition point of view, cropping the legs of the main subject is a bit strange :))
:wave:

[Richd82]

Good job so far Richard :clap:.
Looks like you have no problems with perspective. And yes, the table is correct :thumbsup::


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2012/142886-richard-table.jpg

(But from a composition point of view, cropping the legs of the main subject is a bit strange :))
:wave:
The picture got distorted when it resized. The table is drawn the long way holding the paper in the lanscape position. So the table actually is almost 12" long.

Is that all for lesson 2?

[arnoud3272]

Is that all for lesson 2? Well, it's a long standing tradition in class 2 to draw a chair (in correct perspective). There is some amusing discussion in the now closed older part of the thread :lol:.
:wave:

[Richd82]

Ok here is the chair study...needless to say i had some real issues doing it. Its still all wrong this was my 2nd attempt. Could someone please show me where im going wrong?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2012/1153376-Image_5.jpg

[Richd82]

3rd attempt was a bit more successful. still not sure if its accurate?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2012/1153376-215697-straight_chair.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2012/1153376-Image_6.jpg
Okay side by side i see my 1st big mistake...the front right leg is way to short. UGH!!:(

[arnoud3272]

Richard - Almost correct :thumbsup:.
"Further away looks smaller" but not when the same distance :lol:. The first upload was a straight-on view, so there is convergence from front to back, but not left-right.
Then on the second upload:
the front right leg is way to short True, but also the back is too high at the right.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Dec-2012/142886-richard-chair.jpg

Good work in this class, please move on to class 3 :clap:.

[Richd82]

Richard - Almost correct :thumbsup:
Then on the second upload:
True, but also the back is too high at the right


Good work in this class, please move on to class 3 :clap:.
Hey thanks for your time! Its great that after all these years the classroom is still supported.

My question is how do i determine how high the back should be? Also if its ok before i move on to class 3 i would like 1it more crack at this chair and post my results. I dont wanna overload the thread but i wont let the chair beat me.:D

[arnoud3272]

My question is how do i determine how high the back should be? Richard -
Linear perspective - constructing the vanishing lines - is a powerful tool to check the consistency of your drawing/painting. But the artist has always the choice. So in this case, either the (our) right side should be lower or the left side higher :). I chose the right side, looked better to me.

And of course, you can post as long as there is room for improvement :thumbsup:.

[theWhiteWolf]

Here is my exercise two and three, just to make sure that I am on the right track before doing exercise four...

Exercise Two:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Dec-2012/1167991-Vanishing_Point.JPG
Exercise Three:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Dec-2012/1167991-Box_Stack_Drawing.JPG

(Sorry if the pictures aren't the best quality; I don't own a scanner, so I have to take pictures of my drawings with my phone)

Oh, and a question. I (hopefully) understand how to work the perspective when the flat side of the box is facing you, but how do you do it when the corner/side of the box is facing you (ala the picture below)?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Dec-2012/1167991-Box_Example.JPG