PDA

View Full Version : Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective


Pages : [1] 2 3

JayD
10-25-2004, 12:04 AM
Basic 101: Class 2



Eye Level: Foundation of Perspective

The source for this class can be found on Pages 15 through 19 of Rudy de Reyna’s How to Draw What You See.

Welcome to Class 2 of Basics 101. We are going to be covering the concept of eye level as it pertains to the successful laying out of perspective. The guest lecture series will take this class one step further with an excellent section devoted to one, two and three point perspectives. I urge you to do these simple exercises first before moving into the lecture hall.

Materials:

1. # 2 pencil or pencil you used in the last class

2. Paper—same as last class

3. Feel free to use a ruler this time around

Exercise 1: To demonstrate the concept of eye level, lay on the floor on you back. I did this in preparation for the class and woke up 45 minutes later. Please do not follow my example and take a nap. Instead, look up at everything around you and mentally break any objects that you see into geometric objects—mentally eliminate the detail. Even though this seems obvious, note that for most of these objects you will see the BOTTOMS of these shapes. Now, pick out an object and sit up and keep your eyes FIXED on the chosen object. Note that the object’s point of view changes as you raise to a sitting position. Now keeping your eye on the object, stand up slowly and continue to observe the change until the tops of the object come into view. Eye level is THAT simple yet it is such a natural occurrence for us that many of us (read ME) forget to make this basic observation. If you can establish eye level you can correctly work out perspective. The level at which your eye views an object is called the “horizon” line. (Figure A) There are an infinite number of horizon lines.

Vanishing Points

At this point, having learned my lesson from the last class, I am going to label our images as figure A, B, C and so on.

A vanishing point is an IMAGINERY point on the horizon line.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-figureA.jpg
There are in infinite number of vanishing points and it is up to you to fix the vanishing point according to your viewpoint. Your vanishing points will always be located ON the horizon line (eye level) that you establish. (See Figure B) In one point perspective, there is only one vanishing point. In two-point perspective there are two vanishing points and so forth. You will find examples of these in the guest lecture area.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-FigureB.jpg
The Cube In Perspective:

Exercise 2:

Follow these steps to create a cube in perspective (see also figure C)

a. Draw a rectangle or a square anywhere on your paper. This is the front of your cube..

b. Establish your horizon line (your eye level) and lightly draw it on the paper (you can also just do this in your head as many of us are prone to do).

c. Pick you vanishing point.

d. Connect the lines running from each of the edged of the Square or Rectangle to the vanishing point.

e. Add lines parallel to the front of the cubes along the lines running to the vanishing point (see figure C)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-figureC.jpg
When you do this exercise, draw the cube several times using different vanishing points and horizon lines (eye levels).(see Figure D)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-figureD.jpg

The mighty cube is a perfect visual example of the three dimensions: height, depth and width. If you can clearly define and then incorporate these dimensions into the objects that you draw, then you will be able to draw realistically.

Each dimension can vary. The height of the cube can be greater the depth or the width could be the biggest dimension of all three. Keeping this fact in mind will speed up your progress as an artist.

[Edit 2015: intuitive illustration]

The foundation of perspective that you learn in this class is very simple. The problem lies in the consistent application of the principles. That needs very attentive checking and re-checking. But illustrated by an elementary example - a double railroad track - it is almost ridiculous that it should be explained.
1. Further away looks smaller.
2. All VP's of horizontal lines lie on the same and only horizon line aka Eye Level.
3. All lines in a group of parallel lines converge to the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Nov-2013/142886-Railroad_Tracks.jpg

Exercise 3:

Look about your home and locate four boxes. When you have finished practicing the cubes, draw the boxes and add detail to them such as packaging design or lettering (if it is on you box). Do several studies of these boxes with detail but at different eye levels. Keep in mind eye level (horizon line) and vanishing point.

Exercise 4:

Taking your newfound artistic superpowers draw and post the following items.:

1. A Television (with detail)
[Ed 17 Dec 2009]: skip this, the modern flat screens are no good illustrations of perspective.

2. A box of Kleenex (with detail)

3. A table
[Ed 17 Dec 2009]: advice: choose a rectangular table with straight legs

4. Redo the chair exercise from the previous class—only this time CHANGE THE HORIZON LINE (EYE LEVEL) and post. I will be doing the chair again for another class (Drawing with Cubic Objects). Use an ordinary straight dining chair (on the recommendation of Robin Neudorfer, class tutor), changing the eyelevel from the previous exercise. [changed 16 May 2008] post ref with exercise


FINALLY,

At the guest lecture hall you will find examples of one, two, and three point perspective. Go over these lectures and then try you hand at applying two and three point perspective to the subjects in exercise 4.

[Edit 2016 Friendly advice: if you don't understand 1, 2 and 3 point perspective on first reading, forget it :thumbsup:. Contrary to what all tutorials make you believe, this is NOT basic. Indeed, it is studied in this classroom in the more advanced 102 - class 1 (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336390).
]

For those of you with buildings or outdoor scenes, take a crack at establishing your horizon lines in one, two and three point perspective. Correct the perspective in your drawing if needed. TIP: SKETCH OUT YOUR DRAWING FREEHAND AND THEN CORRECT THE DRAWING USING PERSPECTIVE.

I have included some reference photos that I took that you can try your skills out on OR you can grab some from the reference library.

Good luck and happy drawing!

JayD
10-25-2004, 12:06 AM
Here are the practice photos mentioned in the lesson and dont forget to go to the guest lecture hall for Mitzi's lecture on perspective. :) See if you can locate the horizon line and vanishing points. How would you do these as drawings.

JayD
10-25-2004, 04:28 PM
Here is the link for Scratchmaster's (Russ') tutorial:

http://www.russpix.com/perspective/

JayD
10-25-2004, 05:39 PM
Fireman's Kid--I think that is the stumper of perspective--how do I know where to place what. Ironically, the answer is to eyeball it. YOU decide where you want the horizon line to be and YOU decide where to place your vanishing points. In other words before applying perspective you have to make some decisions and those decisiosn are about how the viewer sees your picture and from what eye level.

I cannot say this enought but this might help all you with perspective:

NEVER DO YOUR PERSPECTIVE FIRST--DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

1. START WITH A SKETCH--DON'T WORRY ABOUT PERSPECTIVE

2. WORK YOUR SKETCH UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH IT.

3. CORRECT IT WITH PERSPECTIVE

4. TRANSFER TO YOUR GOOD PAPER AND LET THE HAPPINESS BEGIN.

Hope this helps. By the way, I got this take on perspective from the Japanese.

JayD
10-25-2004, 08:27 PM
http://mathforum.org/workshops/sum98/participants/sanders/TryPersp.gsp.html

Try this one.

OK this one does work--it is really neat--it employs two point perspective.

Sorry, broken link :(

Jet
10-25-2004, 09:33 PM
Thanks JayD, for the pointers on perspective...

I did this "study" of photograph #2 ...
It's easy to get confused when looking for the vanishing point, here i started with the red lines, then after going through several lines i changed it for the VP (green lines)..
All lines are true in rooms #1 & #2.....

Purple lines are supposed to be the vertical lines, although there is a slight lens aberration on room #3 ...

If we follow the lines we can tell that the windows in room #2 are identical, and the windows on #1 are not the same size...

By following these lines we can draw the bottom line of the house walls (here is the edge of room #1...
......and add a BBQ Grill with very accurate perspective, too...:cool:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2004/27782-Persp-b.jpg......http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Oct-2004/27782-lesson2-b-pb.jpg

Hope it helps...

Kind Regards
:wave:

Jet
10-26-2004, 05:46 PM
Thanks JayD,..

Hello Guys & Gals,
I've been too busy moving....and it's only moving 2 rooms full of dusty stuff to 2 stories above..pant..pant..!!

OK now, back to the fun !! :)

Ann, Jo,you're doing great; there is no fast rule as to how deep an object will be as it is more a perceptual issue...to get our attention let's imagine a shadow...How long(deep) a shadow has to be it depends on the position/distance of the lighting source and the surface, where it will (cast) fall upon....same goes here, but this time your eyes are the equivalent of the light source....

One way to know for sure is, to compare it with other objects sitting next to it....and a better way to understand this is by taking pictures at different angles and compare the relationship between an acute angle and an obtuse one..you'll notice that at one point there will be the need for fore shortening your objects, and all their depths look -not quite, but- about the same.

This will be more easy to understand if we take a look at buildings and how architects figure this out, i had the opportunity to attend 2 semesters of Architecture and this is about the only thing that i am familiar with...
Following, is the best picture JayD could have posted, for illustrating this topic...

This photograph is the whole enchilada as to what One-Point Perspective is all about...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2004/27782-Photo3-1PP.jpg
You can see lines of different color here, the Horizon (green), Convergence Lines (yellow), Vertical (red)...
You'll find the horizon as the flat line that crosses the vanishing point(s), and it tells us where the photographer was standing too. This clever photographer was standing at a 2nd level, and he was aiming straight ahead, slightly tilted CCW -not being generally noticed, but in short range objects-.

Going back to the kleenex box, one way to 'tell' the depth of objects is to place 'clues', as the 'squares' on the floor of this photograph, it let us know, the length of adjacent objects (buildings) by looking at these squares ...:cool:

I hope i made sense here ...If not please let me know !

This picture is so rich in information that is our most valuable tool for this topic.. Good Job JayD... http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Regards
:wave:

Note from the Editor: This thread continues with the recent posts. The older posts can be found in this closed thread:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225461

sarajane554
06-14-2014, 09:04 PM
Hello, here are my exercises 2, 3, and 4b. My vanishing lines on the 4 boxes are very light; hopefully you can make them out at least somewhat. I'll post my table and chair in a few days. Thank you very much for looking :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2014/979979-cubes.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2014/979979-fourbox.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2014/979979-fourbox2.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jun-2014/979979-kleenex.JPG

arnoud3272
06-15-2014, 02:49 PM
Sara -
Excellent :clap:. You've applied the principles of perspective completely correctly :thumbsup:.
One remark, of an esthetic issue, not a technical one, look at the near bottom corner of the Cream of Wheat box. It is not pleasing. That is because you put the left VP too close. When working on a real drawing or painting, not a perspective exercise, take care to make the distance between the VP's large enough (in 2PP that is). Just guess - OK, practice makes perfect - the position of the very far VP if it is way out of the paper.
:wave:

sarajane554
06-16-2014, 02:09 PM
Thank you. Yes, I noticed that the Cream of Wheat box looked wacky which I why I started taping extension sheets on to spread out the other vanishing points. But yea, I see that with experience I could construct those vanishing lines mentally instead of actually drawing them out.

Ok, on to the table & chair ;-)

sarajane554
06-19-2014, 09:41 AM
Here are my table & chair :-) Thanks very much for your time!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/979979-chair.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/979979-table.JPG

arnoud3272
06-19-2014, 05:24 PM
Well done, Sara :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

ataraxiia
06-19-2014, 06:58 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/1890977-photo.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/1890977-image.jpeg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/1890977-tydugsa.jpeg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jun-2014/1890977-dsc.jpeg
Had some trouble with the four boxes don't think I quite got it
&sorry about the orientation:angel:

arnoud3272
06-20-2014, 09:42 AM
ataraxiia - Good start, you understand perspective. But there is no reason why the rays of light would treat some edges more equal than others.
Take care to apply perspective to all receding sets of lines.
In the second drawing, the right edges recede even more than on the left.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2014/142886-ataraxi-stoel.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jun-2014/142886-ataraxi-four.jpeg


Don't hurry, take your time :thumbsup:.

amyloulie
06-24-2014, 06:37 PM
Arnoud, here are my first lessons in class two. I am learning a lot about what I don't know! I had the most difficulty drawing the box on the shelf above eye level - don't exactly know why, unless it's because most of the time I concentrate on objects while looking downward. At least I might not trip over things on the floor...

I do appreciate your time and good instruction. Thank you.

Nancyhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jun-2014/1443497-Class_2_no_2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jun-2014/1443497-Class_2_no_3b.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jun-2014/1443497-Class_2_no_3.jpg

arnoud3272
06-25-2014, 12:45 PM
Good job so far, Nancy :clap:. No errors to report :thumbsup:.

On the Kleenex box, traditionally the vertical edges are always kept vertical. ("3PP" for towers is a cheap photography phenomenon). Now I don't think you drew it that way, I guess it is a camera distortion. Take care to hold the camera perpendicular to the paper.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jun-2014/142886-camera-square.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

amyloulie
06-25-2014, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the photography tip and diagram, Arnoud. I am using a good camera, but not the best light, so I have manipulated the image with software to compensate. I will take care to aim for a perpendicular shot next time. Next comes the chair and table.

Nancy :)

amyloulie
06-26-2014, 07:20 PM
Here are my chair and table. I'm sorry they are so messy. I am having some difficulty with them. I will keep practicing until I don't have so many erasures.

Nancy
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jun-2014/1443497-chair_class_2_640x525.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jun-2014/1443497-table_640x421.jpg

arnoud3272
06-27-2014, 12:48 PM
Very well done, Nancy :clap:.
A bit nitpicky, but it caught my eye without the need to analyse.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jun-2014/142886-nancy-chair.jpg

Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

amyloulie
06-27-2014, 02:52 PM
Now it is obvious to me! How did I miss that? Thanks for being nitpicky.
:eek:

Pirou
07-11-2014, 02:23 AM
I have started week 2 exercises. Here is my Exercise 2, (a) through (e), without the reiterations of (d) at different vanishing points, etc., which will follow in a day or two.

I know we haven't talked about people yet, so I won't ask about them, but I tried them out anyway. In general, after correcting a few errors, I seem to have arrived at correct perspective, but not necessarily correct scale. Hopefully that will follow in a subsequent lesson.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jul-2014/958193-OnePointEx2.JPG

Sorry there's no field/court or game! I started with random boxes first and hadn't planned it was going to turn into any kind of scenario!

Okay, I'm just going to ask my people question. How come the guy at the far end of the bleachers looks smaller than the guy standing near the farther away score post? I seemed to fit them in the lines toward the vanishing point correctly, but their sizes didn't come out right. Maybe it's because I had to guess at the size of the people sitting down and they actually should be bigger?

Feel free to come back to that question in a later lesson. I know I was just supposed to draw boxes, I just got carried away.

arnoud3272
07-11-2014, 05:30 PM
Good job, Kiran :clap:, almost correct :evil:.
I know we haven't talked about people yet, so I won't ask about them, but I tried them out anyway Well, as a matter of fact your question is not about people, it is about perspective alright.
The three sitting people further away are not in correct relation - perspective wise - with the nearest sitting person.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Jul-2014/142886-kiran.jpg

BTW, the left standing person is too tall. Assuming that the observer stands at ground level and that all people are about the same height, all figures standing on the ground level will have their "eye level" at the eye level of the drawing, aka the horizon line .
(There is recent discussion thread on the issue here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1351578))
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

Pirou
07-12-2014, 01:34 AM
Oh! Thank you so much! I just couldn't logic that out! But now it makes perfect sense. However, I don't understand what the blue line is?

The guy standing on the left's eyes are exactly on the horizon line (actually it goes through his head!) but I think in my photograph the drawing is slanted down towards the right. The top of the third step is exactly on the horizon line.

And that makes me realize I had one more question when I was trying to draw that top step that falls above the horizon line. I was able to tell where to draw the distant horizontal and vertical ends of the three lower steps because of the guidelines that went to the vanishing point. But when the step fell above the horizon line, there was nothing to guide me to know where the vertical line of the far end of that top step went. I just guessed at that, too, but is there some method? It seems there must be.

Edited to add: plus, I clearly guessed very wrongly, since it's longer than the step below it in the distance and it's shorter than the step below it in the foreground!

arnoud3272
07-12-2014, 03:25 AM
Kiran -
...However, I don't understand what the blue line is?...
Parallel lines (as it is in 1PP) to transfer the height of the "reference" person to the correct distance (depth) on the lower step. Analogous to your:
...I was able to tell where to draw the distant horizontal and vertical ends of the three lower steps because of the guidelines that went to the vanishing point....
there was nothing to guide me to know where the vertical line of the far end of that top step went. I just guessed at that, too, but is there some method? It seems there must be That is not basic, but I can come back on it before you move on :thumbsup:

Pirou
07-12-2014, 08:48 PM
Thanks, Arnoud!

I feel like I understand the red and green parts of the lines for transferring the height of the reference person up and down the steps and further down the steps towards the background, but still don't understand what the blue line in particular shows, especially since the blue line first traces the three lower steps, but then goes straight up into the air for the 4th step. If it's tracing the steps for the first 3, why doesn't it continue for the 4th step like this yellow line? I feel like if I understood why it doesn't turn for the 4th step, I would understand its purpose/meaning!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jul-2014/958193-yellowline.JPG

Also, how are you drawing lines on the drawing? I would like to get that app. The one I have on my phone is not very easy.

And yes, would love to hear the non-basic explanation for predicting the end of the step above the horizon line. I might find it in my old architectural drawing class notes, as well, as I go through the rest of the exercises for the week.

Pirou
07-12-2014, 10:49 PM
Maybe I just figured it out: the blue line shows where to start the red line at the bottom?

arnoud3272
07-13-2014, 02:48 AM
Maybe I just figured it out: the blue line shows where to start the red line at the bottom? Exactly :thumbsup:

I'm not working on a smartphone, I'm on a PC.

Pirou
07-13-2014, 02:51 PM
Yes, any software for the computer would be welcome! I want to be able to draw lines from my computer and not have to use the phone! Please let me know the program. :)

arnoud3272
07-13-2014, 04:35 PM
Yes, any software for the computer would be welcome! I want to be able to draw lines from my computer and not have to use the phone! Please let me know the program. :) I use GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/about/introduction.html), free and powerful.
I use it in its native environment (Linux). On Windows it is a bit slow, but hey, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
:wave:

Pirou
07-15-2014, 07:04 PM
Thanks, I have heard of GIMP. Will have to check it out.

Okay, I have been working on the next exercise, the drawing of three cubes around the house in different positions. Here are my three yoga blocks:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2014/958193-Boxes_-_portrait.JPG

I couldn't see where the edges of the blocks extended to the horizon line, so I thought I would take a picture, print it out, and draw them out manually and see what I could see. Well, I couldn't make the edges extend to the horizon line even with the paper extended far out and a long straight edge:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2014/958193-Perspective.JPG

What is going wrong?

Please excuse my drawing assistant. He gets into everything...

Pirou
07-15-2014, 08:59 PM
In the mean time, here is the Exercise 3 done just putting the principles in the back of my mind and using them to inform what I am actually seeing without completely measuring them out and making them line up exactly to a vanishing point on the horizon, as I couldn't even do that with a printout of the actual view. This was drawn from actually looking at the bookcase and the yoga blocks, not from looking at the photograph I took of them. I'm sure had I drawn from the photo it would be more accurate, but I'm trying to learn to draw from seeing things in actual life. It's easy to draw from a photograph because the transition from 3D to 2D has already been made for you. I don't know why it's so hard to do it in actual life. Anyway, here is my attempt. I only have 3 yoga blocks, so it's not 4 boxes, but maybe the books can count.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Jul-2014/958193-room.JPG

Pirou
07-15-2014, 11:19 PM
More perspective questions.

Okay, I have been examining the diagram that is supposed to go with Exercise 3, which is Figure D. This shows a cube with only one vanishing point, but more than 1 facet of the cube is visible. This should be drawn in 2-point perspective. If we were to stand this object up, it would not be square, and it would fall over.

The same situation is shown in the accompanying guest lecture which describes one point perspective as "all vertical lines are perpendicular...all horizontal lines are parallel, and...all diagonal lines intersect at the point on the horizon..." That is not correct. The lines described as horizontal would only be horizontal if the front facet were directly facing the viewer and was parallel to the viewer. As soon as the cube moves to the side or rotates so that more than one facet is seen, it becomes two-point perspective, as each of those facets is going to have its own vanishing point. Otherwise, it's not a square object. I think these descriptions and drawings are confusing to a learner. Can these posts be changed? I think they are presenting erroneous information.

sarajane554
07-16-2014, 11:06 AM
More perspective questions.

Okay, I have been examining the diagram that is supposed to go with Exercise 3, which is Figure D. This shows a cube with only one vanishing point, but more than 1 facet of the cube is visible. This should be drawn in 2-point perspective. If we were to stand this object up, it would not be square, and it would fall over.

The same situation is shown in the accompanying guest lecture which describes one point perspective as "all vertical lines are perpendicular...all horizontal lines are parallel, and...all diagonal lines intersect at the point on the horizon..." That is not correct. The lines described as horizontal would only be horizontal if the front facet were directly facing the viewer and was parallel to the viewer. As soon as the cube moves to the side or rotates so that more than one facet is seen, it becomes two-point perspective, as each of those facets is going to have its own vanishing point. Otherwise, it's not a square object. I think these descriptions and drawings are confusing to a learner. Can these posts be changed? I think they are presenting erroneous information.

Sorry for interjecting, but I had the same thought process that you expressed above when I was thinking about 1pp versus 2pp. But I do believe the posts you refer to are correct: If one of the cube's faces is directly facing the viewer (even if it is off to the side, not directly in front of the viewer) then it's 1pp. If one the the cube's edges is directly facing the viewer, then it is 2pp. And if one of the cube's corners is directly facing the viewer, then it's 3pp. Arnoud, is this way of thinking about the issue correct? Or maybe you can correct us both :-) Thanks.

sarajane554
07-16-2014, 12:38 PM
Here, I think this drawing will illustrate my point:

The big box, we can all agree, should be drawn in 1pp as it is right in front of the little stick viewer. But then you see that if you take a slice off of the right side of this box, you get another box (the small, right most box), which is no longer straight in front of the viewer, but which still has a face facing the viewer and clearly is & should also be drawn in 1pp.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/979979-1pp.JPG

Pirou
07-16-2014, 02:43 PM
Hi Sara, that's exactly what I was thinking. If the object faces the viewer squarely and directly in front - one vanishing point, one point perspective. As soon as you see the 2nd face - two vanishing points, two point perspective. I hope the posts can get changed to reflect that.

The little box you add, if added to the original box, is part of that one vanishing point perspective. As soon as you take away the original box, it becomes two-point perspective, unless the viewer goes and stands directly in front of its flat face. It would not be drawn in one point perspective if the viewer remains standing where you have drawn him and turns his head to look at it. He would not see any lines parallel to his own position from that perspective.

You can test it by putting a block to your side in the position indicated in your drawing. Neither face will display a horizontal line to view. The perspective changes even when we close one eye and open the other. It changes drastically when we turn our heads 45 degrees to look at the corner of a building instead of the face of one in front of us.

sarajane554
07-16-2014, 03:06 PM
Oh, no I think I've not expressed myself well because what I meant to demonstrate was that the small box on the right is in 1pp (even if you delete the left hand portion, it would not change it from 1pp to 2pp). I guess it's the difference between sliding a box from side to side (which would not make it change to 2pp) and rotating the box (which would make it change to 2pp). I don't think the viewer turning his head changes the perspective. Only if the viewer were to walk around and view the object from another angle would the perspective change.

sarajane554
07-16-2014, 03:12 PM
Another thing is this: according to your description, in order to use 1pp, you want to have the box facing the viewer, centered directly in front of the viewer. Why not also require that the box be centered on the horizon line. Does the fact that you can see the top or bottom of the box make you want to use another vanishing point for the vertical edges?

Pirou
07-16-2014, 03:58 PM
Here are the pics. The camera is in exactly the same spot at the same distance. The only difference is that the large box has been removed and the camera has been turned to look at the box. (Not even all the way)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-1-1-markup-scaled.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-2-2markup.jpg

All the vertical edges would only be vertical if the object were at eye level. Above or below eye level changes the angle of the verticals that are not directly in front to diagonals. That's why if we stand at the top of the Empire State Building, the bottoms of the buildings below look smaller than the tops. I think most of the time we don't have to deal with this question because we are mostly drawing buildings at the same level that we are standing on and the distance to the top of the building is not great, so we draw the verticals as vertical although that's not quite what we see if we were to measure at an infinitesimal level. If we draw a skyscraper from below, however, we can't ignore that the horizontal lines converge towards a point at the top.

Pirou
07-16-2014, 04:23 PM
Another thing is this: according to your description, in order to use 1pp, you want to have the box facing the viewer, centered directly in front of the viewer. Why not also require that the box be centered on the horizon line. Does the fact that you can see the top or bottom of the box make you want to use another vanishing point for the vertical edges?

Yes, if the scale were large enough for that difference to be noticeable.

arnoud3272
07-16-2014, 05:44 PM
Kiran and Sara - Thorough discussion :thumbsup:.
But I have the feeling that you think too much :). Perspective is a formulaic convention, not a faithful description of the reality. It is a tool and all depends on how you use that tool. IF you choose to draw in 1PP, then the back and front edges do not converge, such is the convention. It distorts. But if you imagine the 2 VP's in 2PP too close together - for convenience - you get another unpleasant distortion.
You can use the perspective tool for two purposes: the most important here is to check what you drew for consistency. First draw, than check.
It can also be used for constructing from imagination, e.g. by architects.

Kiran - Cameras - except the very high end class, and then only if you know how to adjust - always distort the perspective. So of course you could not analyze your photo satisfactorily.

Returning to the lesson of this class, First draw, than check, you did very well; only at box A you lost you concentration.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/142886-kiran-room.JPG

Well done in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

Pirou
07-16-2014, 06:16 PM
Ah, yes! Box A - all over the place! That was the third/most tired box.

May I complete the remainder of the exercises in this lesson before moving on to the next? I'm not in a hurry and, as you may have guessed, kind of need to be thorough to really understand what I'm doing.

Pirou
07-16-2014, 07:24 PM
Okay, I combined Exercise 3 (Draw tissue box and/or table, plus draw a straight back chair changing the eye level) and the FINALLY Exercise (Apply 2- and 3-point perspective to subjects in exercise 4).

3 Table drawings (I don't have a straight chair):

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-Tables.JPG

Ref 1 - this one was difficult because of the lines of the bookcase in the background and in the carpet on the floor. In contrast to the bookcase, the top line of the table appeared to be sloping downward, but it really wasn't. Once I overcame that optical illusion, I started over for that one.

Pics taken after each drawing was completed. I drew the legs as if they were not warped as the actual table is.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-Ref1.JPG

Ref 2

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-Ref2t.JPG

Ref 3 - this one I drew in 3-point perspective, trying to make it as little noticeable as possible.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jul-2014/958193-Ref3.JPG

Okay, I feel better having completed the majority of the exercises...

sarajane554
07-16-2014, 10:20 PM
Yes, if the scale were large enough for that difference to be noticeable.

Well, can't the same be said regarding a box drawn in 1pp where you can see two sides at the same time :-)

Pirou
07-16-2014, 11:34 PM
Well, can't the same be said regarding a box drawn in 1pp where you can see two sides at the same time :-)

I'm going to make some drawings and find out! My next day off is Friday. I'll try it then!

I'm finding all this investigation and questoning very helpful.

sarajane554
07-17-2014, 09:39 AM
I'm going to make some drawings and find out! My next day off is Friday. I'll try it then!

I'm finding all this investigation and questoning very helpful.

Yea, me too, it's a good conversation. I'm thinking that, as Arnoud said, it's not an exact science but more of a tool to help us get things looking right.

1pp is really the same as 2pp, but with the second vanishing point so far off to the side that it's at "infinity" and you don't see the horizontal lines converging at all. So I think that when you observe something you want to draw, if the horizontals look close to being parallel, it is easier to draw it in 1pp (even if its face is not directly in front of you), rather than trying to do 2pp with a 2nd vanishing point 3 meters off the end of the page :lol:

arnoud3272
07-17-2014, 03:13 PM
Kiran - Sorry to have to say about the table drawings: too much thinking, not enough common sense :(.
The abstract form of a table is a box with big holes in the side. Does this remind you of a box ?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2014/142886-kiran-table-D.JPG

I don't like the perennial explanations of 1PP, 2PP in tutorials. Those are mathematical concepts that rarely have any use in real drawings/paintings.

Look here:
Horizontal parallel lines that lie in the "plane of the paper", i.e. perpendicular to the line of sight, do not converge.
Vertical parallel lines do not converge.
In sets of horizontal parallel lines, all lines converge to the same VP on the horizon line.
(Other lines are not treated in this basic class)

That is the same information, but without the danger of mixing semantics with mathematics.

Common errors can be illustrated with a very basic example, the railroad tracks:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2014/142886-Railroad_Tracks.jpg
In particular, your VP's do not lie on the same horizontal. And all lines in a set must go to the same VP, not two by two as in your drawing.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2014/142886-kiran-table-A.JPG

I guess you erred because you were thinking too much. The drawing of your room was correct, with one obvious exception.

:wave:

Pirou
07-18-2014, 02:59 AM
Thank you, Arnoud! It's a good thing I didn't move forward to lesson 3, as I am still making mistakes. In this case, though, sigh, I’m afraid it’s the opposite - a lack of thinking on the tables rather than an excess of thinking (as I did on the room drawing). The room took me a lot of time and logic (including that preliminary attempt to try to find the vanishing points). But with the tables I tried to relax, work less laboriously, and include more data from what I see and less data from the rules.

Also, I drew the table top as I saw it, and then I just completely forgot to use the concept of the box to help place the lengths of the table legs to match (also less thinking).

From my imagination, I can easily draw boxes and tables following the guidelines for however many vanishing points on the horizon, but when looking at a subject in real life, I don’t see the lines of a box extending to the vanishing point. That’s what I was saying with the first drawing, that I couldn’t see how the edges could possibly extend to VPs on the horizon line, and so then I just arbitrarily applied the mathematical rules in contradiction to what I actually saw (thinking).

In the tables, I did the opposite. Instead of applying the mathematical guidelines (thinking), I tried to more draw what I see (common sense). If the object in real life doesn’t seem to follow the rules of perspective, should we arbitrarily impose them on the drawing anyway? I’m trying to brush up on my perspective in order to more easily draw from life, but I can’t yet understand how to match up what is in real life with the guidelines for perspective.

Although I drew from life before taking any photos of the table, I did this exercise just now:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jul-2014/958193-Table_2_Ref_with_Perspective_Lines.JPG

These vanishing points to not appear to lie on the same horizontal to me, but I know it’s not just the distortion of the camera in this case, because this is also what I saw with my eye while doing the drawing (more or less.) Is it the case that the rules of perspective are just an optical illusion to make the drawing more lifelike, even if life it’s not really what we see at all?

arnoud3272
07-18-2014, 05:29 PM
Kiran -

If the object in real life doesn’t seem to follow the rules of perspective, should we arbitrarily impose them on the drawing anyway?
Do you doubt about the principles illustrated by the railroad tracks above?
If you accept these, they are the result of rays of light reflected from the objects. Do you think it reasonable that rays of light remember where they come from and react differently according to their origin?
The title of this classroom "Draw what you see" really means "Do not draw what you think you see, learn to see the exact abstract forms".

Don't pretend you saw this in real life; I don't buy it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jul-2014/142886-kiran-table-D.JPG

Our eyes play tricks, many beginners will swear that they see the back edge of a table top larger than the front. You could measure distances and angles with a knitting needle or so. That is however a technique that needs practice before you can use it accurately. But than you will see that what seemed not to follow the rule, is indeed as art schools teach since the 17th century.

Further:
Do NOT trust photographs, all photos taken by amateur cameras distort the perspective - among a lot of other things :(. I have superficially corrected the distortion in your photo.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Jul-2014/142886-kiran-Ref1.JPG

Although a bit off, it is clear that the 4 VL's of each VP come together, not 2 by 2. And also it looks OK-ish that the far VP is on the same horizon line. And of course, this is an example - as suggested by Sara - where you would better choose to draw it in 1PP.

:wave:

Pirou
07-18-2014, 09:02 PM
Hi Arnoud.

Thank you for your continued explanations.

No, I don't doubt the principles shown by the railroad tracks at all. Just trying to figure out how to apply them to what is in front of me when it's not something as obvious as railroad tracks receding into the distance directly in front of me.

No, I don't pretend I saw those legs where they appear in my drawing. I was using the knitting needle measuring technique (using my pencil) and, as I mentioned, forgot to look at the legs as the bottom of the cube. I look forward to that technique improving with the practice that you mention.

I feel more confident about the shape of the top of the table, though, and as you pointed out, the two sets of edges to the left and right do not recede to vanishing points on the same horizontal. That's what I am trying to work out.

I only use the photograph to try to show you what I am struggling with because that's the only way I have to illustrate what I'm looking at, since we are not here in person. So, if you can recommend a better way to show you what I think I am looking at, I will implement that solution instead.

I could easily draw this table in one-point perspective, but I feel it would then appear to be facing the viewer. That is what I mean by arbitrarily imposing a rule. I feel the right side of this table is slanted away from view, and I wonder whether that slanted feeling would still come across in one-point perspective. I'm going to add that to my list of exercises to try.

Thank you for all your help!

arnoud3272
07-19-2014, 04:26 AM
Kiran -
Perspective is a tool, like measuring with a pencil is a tool. If you are very good at measuring, you will come to the same result. But perspective is much faster, and you don't need painstakingly measure each window sill for instance.
BTW, this class is about learning to use the perspective tool, not about freehand drawing.
:thumbsup:

impressionistwoman
07-26-2014, 12:03 AM
hello arnoud. i haven't done class 2 yet - i see others are doing 2- point perspective. i am not sure if this is the right place but i'm posting pre-class 2 assignment here /or class 1 homework/whatever it is - anyway this is what i could find. i haven't done the darn tissue box i just reaized. oh gosh, i'll just go on and do class 2 like you said anyway, i've messed around here long enough!

impressionistwoman
07-26-2014, 12:06 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2014/1890397-IMG_5823.JPG
you're going to need to massively enlarge this to see it. i hope you have decent screen!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2014/1890397-IMG_5824.JPG

impressionistwoman
07-26-2014, 12:07 AM
there are 5 pictures - each one in a 'cloud'.

impressionistwoman
07-26-2014, 03:53 AM
oh gosh i think mine's a mess compared to the others. do you want me to do it again? it looks all wrong anyway and i've only attempted 1-point.

i don't think i get it, anyway. grrr. tell me what to do.

i have thousands of ripped up drawings in the bin. so much good paper has been wasted.

i lose heart even for the tiniest smudge or mistake and rip up the piece. i'm a dreadful perfectionist. please hep me. someone said to use tracing paper for practicing but how do i know what is practicing?

i never really know what's going to turn out ok. i can spend hours on something only to throw it away later. or a little practice go is good.

i have a handful of ok pictures!.

what to do to do? help!!! please help me. i badly need to stop this silliness but i don't know how! what should i be doing? i want to learn to draw but i also want to have some fun and make nice pictures. i want to draw people. i like an impressionist style but well done! help!

shell

impressionistwoman
07-26-2014, 03:58 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2014/1890397-IMG_5831.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2014/1890397-IMG_5832.JPG

arnoud3272
07-26-2014, 08:35 AM
shell -
Relax :).
First of all: FORGET 1PP, 2PP !

I don't like the perennial explanations of 1PP, 2PP in tutorials. Those are mathematical concepts that rarely have any use in real drawings/paintings.

Look here:
Horizontal parallel lines that lie in the "plane of the paper", i.e. perpendicular to the line of sight, do not converge.
Vertical parallel lines do not converge.
In sets of horizontal parallel lines, all lines converge to the same VP on the horizon line.
(Other lines are not treated in this basic class)

That is the same information, but without the danger of mixing semantics with mathematics.

Common errors can be illustrated with a very basic example, the railroad tracks:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Jul-2014/142886-Railroad_Tracks.jpg
Don't underestimate this as being too obvious. Up to 90% of perspective errors are caused by not observing one or two of these intuitive rules.
For a start, most of your entries err on the first principle: "further away looks smaller".
Please don't sketch ten or twenty objects. Do one at a time, and as explained in the first posts of this class: sketch, then check the perspective with vanishing lines and correct if needed. BTW, please do not erase the VL's when posting.

The ONLY mathematical concept that you must learn in this class is the correct nature of a vanishing line. In particular you should recognize that these lines a and b are useless as VL's.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2014/142886-not-a-VL-annot.jpg

Take heart :thumbsup:.

impressionistwoman
07-28-2014, 03:27 PM
yep. got it. thanx. (i was going a little crazy there for a moment - ready to toss the whole thing over perspective. it's ok now.)

Read946
07-29-2014, 02:09 PM
Hello,
I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this question. I need to seriously learn about perspective and just found this page. Can you please direct me to the starting point of the foundation of Perspective. I need to start right at the beginning. How to I join the classroom and find the lectures.. sorry to bother you, but I really need help with this. thanks for your reply.
Val

arnoud3272
07-29-2014, 02:48 PM
Val -
Welcome to the classroom :).
Did you skip the "Start Here!" thread?
:wave:

Read946
07-29-2014, 10:07 PM
Hi Arnoud,
It's that obvious is it? lol. I did skip that, as for some reason, I got right to this page first, (from google? not exactly sure) and since I haven't been to wet canvas in some time I had forgotten just how to navigate around.. Problem solved as I have read the start here thread. Thanks for your response. I'll be checking things out and hopefully this persective thing will start making some sense. I just find it so confusing, and envy people who get it right.
thanks again Arnoud.
Val

Sarosna
07-31-2014, 10:33 AM
Phew, been working hard on these perspective assignments. I think I got the hang of 1PP. 2PP is a lot harder but I started to grasp the idea a little bit. I realize now I could've altered my objects a bit more. The cat carrier isn't as simple as I drew it so I tried to vary it up a little by drawing a door open option as well. On the first object the pattern on the sides of the container are all over the place. I drew the object kinda small and by the time I got to doing the patterns on the sides, things got so small that I couldn't really control it any more.

The landscape image was drawn according to one of the example pictures but I changed it up a little to make it easier to understand. At first I didn't really know if I was supposed to use 1PP or 2PP but I ended up going with 1PP and making this "leaving town" sort of image to get a grasp of horizon. Towards the end I realized that my phone line poles are all over the place. I was looking at the original photo and I think I got fooled by how some of the poles stand in a leaning position. So there's a lot more to practice but I'm still rather happy how the image came out.

The shadings on these things are probably incorrect. I played around with using a vanishing point as a light source just to put more emphasis on how the vanishing point affects everything on the picture.

Also, there's a bit of a whoopsie on the first picture where I drew one box above the horizon line. Went over a line I wasn't supposed to with a black marker.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2014/1364585-perspe1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2014/1364585-perspe2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2014/1364585-perspe3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2014/1364585-perspe4.jpg

arnoud3272
07-31-2014, 01:42 PM
Well done, Minna :clap:. The perspective is mathematically correct - except of course the telegraph lines.
But we see the typical errors when people concentrate too much on the theoretical construction.
1. The nearest (lower) corner is much too sharp. It can never be sharper than 90°. Try it IRL: it is at its sharpest when looking down on it, and than it is 90°.
It is caused by putting the VP's much too close together.
2. Not enough "foreshortening", e.g. the chair. You could easily put two people on that seat.

But you did a good job on the basics, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

Sarosna
08-01-2014, 03:10 AM
Well done, Minna :clap:. The perspective is mathematically correct - except of course the telegraph lines.
But we see the typical errors when people concentrate too much on the theoretical construction.
1. The nearest (lower) corner is much too sharp. It can never be sharper than 90°. Try it IRL: it is at its sharpest when looking down on it, and than it is 90°.
It is caused by putting the VP's much too close together.
2. Not enough "foreshortening", e.g. the chair. You could easily put two people on that seat.

But you did a good job on the basics, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

Thank you for the tips :) I do have a habit of drawing things too small and I noticed the weirdness with my vanishing points. I'll need to work on that in the future.

meadowsweetmom
08-25-2014, 08:22 AM
Here are my drawings for Class 2, not in any order. I just realized I did not do a table. If you want me to do any more drawings for this lesson let me know. I learned a lot from being "forced" to do all these drawings which I never would have taken the time to slog through otherwise! Thanks, Barb

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2014/1912930-IMG_4485.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2014/1912930-IMG_4486.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2014/1912930-IMG_4487.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2014/1912930-IMG_4488.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Aug-2014/1912930-IMG_4497.JPG

arnoud3272
08-25-2014, 04:21 PM
All completely correct :clap::clap:.
I learned a lot from being "forced" to do all these drawings which I never would have taken the time to slog through otherwise! Indeed. That applies to some of the other classes as well.
Well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

alexk3954
10-12-2014, 12:06 AM
Here are my random shapes in perspective. I drew a few with an extreme three point perspective and they ended up looking pretty warped.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2014/1962359-SCN_0001.jpg


My chair:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2014/1962359-SCN_0002.jpg

My table;
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2014/1962359-SCN_0003.jpg

My assorted objects:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2014/1962359-SCN_0004.jpg

arnoud3272
10-12-2014, 05:21 PM
Alex - Good job :clap:. Clearly you have no problems with basic perspective. A few small remarks:
-- the chair shows the common error when people are preoccupied with the constructs - the VL's are correct, but there is far too little foreshortening, the seat looks almost long enough for a "chaise longue" :lol:.
-- there is a little oversight in the 4-boxes drawing:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Oct-2014/142886-alex-boxes.jpg

You did very well, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

mbrna
10-26-2014, 12:44 AM
Thanks.
How is this for section 2?

In the first drawing, I used the same vanishing point for the three white boxes on the left, and a different vanishing point for the white box on the right. I tried to draw a table and a speaker in my living room.

In the second drawing, I tried to draw four of the five pictures that showed different vanishing points. In the first pic, I out the 'x' at the wrong spot, so I added it to the jpg in (what I think is) the correct spot.

I can see I need more practice drawing with perspective.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2014/1963649-IMG_4663.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2014/1963649-IMG_4664.jpg

arnoud3272
10-26-2014, 12:18 PM
Really well done, Michael :clap:.
The perspective of the geo forms and the interpretation of the images are correct.
So no doubt you understand it, but the biggest problem with perspective is not the theory, but you need the utmost care when applying it. We don't need the same accuracy as architects, but it is a bit disturbing when parallel lines diverge instead of converge:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2014/142886-michael-table.jpg

I'm looking forward to your drawing of a chair :thumbsup:.

mbrna
10-26-2014, 03:40 PM
Really well done, Michael
Thank you!


[snipped]...it is a bit disturbing when parallel lines diverge instead of converge
Thank you for taking the time to point this out with your markups! I knew the table looked disturbed, but I did not know why. You have shown me the light!!

I think I do better with straight lines (and perspective) rather than curved lines. Now that you've enlightened me, I will try a chair, albeit a more square one. :-)

mbrna
10-26-2014, 10:56 PM
I practiced a bit more to try and get the hang of perspective.

I used a straight edge and predefined vanishing points for drawings A, B, and C. For drawing C, I used two vanishing points that were not on the same horizon. I suspect that is why, even though the drawing follows the rules of perspective, the table looks goofy.

For D, I picked an imaginary vanishing point and drew as best I could freehand, without a ruler. I can still see a couple spots where I messed up, but I find that is sometimes due to my inability to draw a straight line between the two points that I want it to be. The pencil tip tends to wander, which I suppose is the point of practicing pages and pages of straight lines. :-)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2014/1963649-IMG_4677.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2014/1963649-IMG_4678.jpg

arnoud3272
10-27-2014, 09:08 AM
even though the drawing follows the rules of perspective, the table looks goofy. No, it looks goofy because you did not follow the second most important rule :(.
Please look at the illustration in post #469, p. 32.

As an aside, it is OK in this class to construct the perspective before drawing, but in general the better way to learn to draw is to sketch first, then check with whatever is appropriate (perspective, "measuring", computer overlay, ...) and correct.

You stayed long enough in this class - next class is a kind of "perspective revisited" anyway :lol:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

mbrna
10-27-2014, 12:12 PM
...it is OK in this class to construct the perspective before drawing, but in general the better way to learn to draw is to sketch first, then check with whatever is appropriate (perspective, "measuring", computer overlay, ...) and correct.
Thanks!
In Drawing D above, I sketched without constructing the perspective first.

I'll practice sketching first, then checking (in my art work, I won't post any more drawings here).

Thanks again for your help!
michael

Tut
11-26-2014, 07:28 PM
Phew, this was harder than I thought. Eyeballing it and then adding perspective is a skill. Practise, Practise

arnoud3272
11-27-2014, 10:52 AM
Very well done, Justine :clap:. You show a good understanding of perspective theory.
I'd like to see one final test, a coherent set of 4 boxes :).

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Tut
11-29-2014, 10:08 PM
You asked, you got!

It all went ok, apart from needing lots of extra blank pieces of paper to get the vanishing points (or have a tiny picture!), but the top box, doesn't seem quite right to me.

Many thanks, Justine

arnoud3272
11-30-2014, 04:28 AM
Justine -
Very good job :clap:.
Technically all is correct. But indeed the top box is not looking right. That illustrates how perspective is only a tool, a checklist. Other criteria should also be observed to make it "look good". In this case I think from a composition point of view that the top box overhangs too much to the back. It doesn't look balanced, both physically and pictorially.

You did very well in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

spoll
12-15-2014, 12:39 PM
hi, i am having some troubles with hatching and crosshatching. It is difficult for me to describe a solid edge maybe it will come with practice. Without a solid edges my perspective looks bad. Any tips :confused:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/1965070-1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/1965070-2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/1965070-3.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/1965070-4.jpg

tonybbc
12-15-2014, 01:23 PM
As an older student and spending many years of hit and miss in drawing and painting I seem to find that the perspective lesson not as difficult as I thought it might have been. Although upon saying that I found both the table and chair very difficult and after 5 or 6 attempts of different types of tables and chairs I found that these were the best. (I hope). http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/93964-B101_CLASS_2_EXCERISE_2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/93964-B101_CLASS_2_EXCERISE_3.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/93964-B101_CLASS_2_EXCERISE_4,2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/93964-B101_CLASS_2_EXCERISE_4,3.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/93964-B101_CLASS_2_EXCERISE_4,4.jpg

arnoud3272
12-15-2014, 05:34 PM
Stoian - No doubt you understand the foundation of perspective :thumbsup:.

Tips on hatching:
-- we have a saying at D&S: don't be afraid of the dark :lol:.
-- avoid this "water flowing over a weir" effect.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/142886-STOIAN-2.jpg

-- be consistent within the same plane, don't just choose the easiest direction.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Dec-2014/142886-stoian-4.jpg

BTW, look at the blue lines :(. I'm sure you know, it is an oversight, but it shows how easy it is to loose your attention.

Well done in this class, please move on to class 3 :clap:.

arnoud3272
12-15-2014, 05:45 PM
Tony - Very well done :clap:.
You constructed the perspective completely correctly.
As a small remark, the perspective is mathematically correct, but it doesn't look right esthetically. Because you constructed the drawing.
The distance between the VP's is too short, particularly on the Kleenex box and the chair. The effect is that the near bottom corner is too sharp. That corner can absolutely never be less than 90 degrees.
Somewhere in the first posting there is the TIP: SKETCH OUT YOUR DRAWING FREEHAND AND THEN CORRECT THE DRAWING USING PERSPECTIVE.

The table is very good :thumbsup:.

Please move on to class 3 :clap:.

spoll
12-16-2014, 08:19 AM
Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

Pong
12-20-2014, 01:25 PM
After a long delay, here are my Class 2 assignments. Thanks.
Pong
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/78813-Class_2,_1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/78813-Class_2,_2.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/78813-Class_2,_3.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/78813-Class_2,_4.JPGhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/78813-Class_2,_5.JPG

arnoud3272
12-20-2014, 05:57 PM
Pong - I concede that perspective is difficult to apply, it takes the utmost attention until it becomes automatic. But it shouldn't be too difficult to understand.
Illustrated by an elementary example - a double railroad track - it is almost ridiculous that it should be explained.
1. Further away looks smaller.
2. All VP's of horizontal lines lie on the same and only horizon line aka Eye Level.
3. All lines in a group of parallel lines converge to the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Nov-2013/142886-Railroad_Tracks.jpg

You got the first principle, further away looks smaller :clap:.

But with the exception of two boxes, you drew the VP's on wildly differing levels. E.g.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/142886-pong-table.JPG

And take care that to have a coherent drawing, all VP's must lie on the same level, not just object per object.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Dec-2014/142886-pong-4-boxes.JPG

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

Godoggo
01-01-2015, 12:48 AM
Here are my assignments:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ihxoy8.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/10qz6sw.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2yngtgg.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/332qkgi.jpg

arnoud3272
01-01-2015, 08:29 AM
Well done, Amy :clap:.
Not so much a perspective problem, the VP is very far out, but look how you twisted the chair. The seat and back do not face the same direction.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Jan-2015/142886-amy.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Godoggo
01-01-2015, 10:22 PM
I'm not sure if you wanted me to correct it before I move on, but I wanted to.

Something still looks off to me, but I think maybe it is the uneven back. It looks off to me in real life.

http://i57.tinypic.com/vfy3qq.jpg

arnoud3272
01-02-2015, 04:14 PM
... Something still looks off to me, but I think maybe it is the uneven back......
But you corrected in the wrong place I'd say:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jan-2015/142886-amy.jpg

.... It looks off to me in real life.
Oh well, I don't think I'll buy that :lol:.

Please move on :thumbsup:.

squatchfoot
01-26-2015, 05:27 PM
Hi,

The first post in Class 2 mentions a guest lecture area, but I can't seem to find them. Are these lectures still online, or is the first post referencing some old lost links?

Thanks,
Matt

arnoud3272
01-27-2015, 03:06 AM
Hi,

The first post in Class 2 mentions a guest lecture area, but I can't seem to find them. Are these lectures still online, or is the first post referencing some old lost links?

Thanks,
Matt The link is in class 1, item 3 of the Introduction.
:thumbsup:

squatchfoot
01-27-2015, 09:18 AM
The link is in class 1, item 3 of the Introduction.
:thumbsup:

Thank You!

squatchfoot
01-31-2015, 11:16 AM
Hi,

Here are my drawings for exercise 2 (in 1,2 & 3 point perspective). More boxes, table & chairs coming soon.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101-02_Exercise_2_-_1PP.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101-02_Exercise_2_-_2PP.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101-02_Exercise_2_-_3PP.jpg

Matt

arnoud3272
01-31-2015, 12:48 PM
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

squatchfoot
01-31-2015, 09:13 PM
Hi,

Here are the rest of my exercises for Class 2. The scans came out very light, it's hard to see some of my vanishing lines.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101_-_02_Exercise_3.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101_-_02_Exercise_4.2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101_-_03_Exercise_4.3.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jan-2015/1966879-101_-_02_Exercise_4.4.jpg

Thanks for doing this!
Matt

arnoud3272
02-01-2015, 10:09 AM
All very well done, Matt :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

squatchfoot
02-01-2015, 10:38 AM
All very well done, Matt :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

Thanks!

artist_ali
02-09-2015, 10:03 AM
here is my assignment


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2015/1967327-c2.2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2015/1967327-c2.1.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2015/1967327-c2.3.jpg

I really struggle with perspective
I have one question that how do we deal with perspective when the another V.P is far of the page.

artist_ali
02-09-2015, 10:47 AM
here is coherent boxes
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Feb-2015/1967327-c2.4.jpg
I think there is physically balancing issue.

arnoud3272
02-10-2015, 03:33 PM
Ali - good work :clap:. You understand the principles.
I have one question that how do we deal with perspective when the another V.P is far of the page. When the VP is not very far, you can tape a piece of scrap paper at the side.
Of course nowadays, and as you digitize your work anyway to post it, you can use "Photoshop" - the real thing or lookalikes.
But on the other hand, if you draw first and only need to check for gross errors, drawing the VL's up to the side of your paper is in most cases enough to see what is wrong.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Feb-2015/142886-ali-chair.jpg

With far VP's, the convergence is small, and consistency is the most important.
Well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

Dutchpen
02-13-2015, 12:52 PM
Class No 2 Exercise 1 and 2 :crossfingers: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0001_1.jpg

arnoud3272
02-13-2015, 05:05 PM
Mike - You're off to a good start :clap:.
One thing that bothers me always is when people draw some shapes correctly and other - completely similar - shapes are wrong. As a sports instructor of mine used to ask "Did you choose to do it that way or was it just happening?" Cube 2 is distorted, why?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Feb-2015/142886-mike.jpg

:thumbsup:

Dutchpen
02-14-2015, 03:44 AM
CORRECTION CUBE No2 Drawn a Different cube this timehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0001.jpg

Dutchpen
02-14-2015, 04:44 AM
Three Objects 14-02-15 Class2 perspectivehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0001_1.jpg

arnoud3272
02-14-2015, 08:47 AM
Perfect, Mike :clap:.

Dutchpen
02-14-2015, 01:08 PM
Exercise 3 The Four Boxes Completes Class 2 work:crossfingers: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0002.jpg

Dutchpen
02-14-2015, 01:08 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0003.jpg

arnoud3272
02-14-2015, 05:34 PM
Hi, Mike -
I'm always looking forward to this exercise, it really shows whether one understands perspective. And I mean the really important aspects, not the mathematical jargon of 1PP, 2PP and 3PP.
First issue: what is a vanishing line, and more important, what is NOT a vanishing line? a and b are not.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/142886-not-a-VL-annot.jpg
On your sketch, object 2 does not resemble a box at all. And it does not resemble the object in the photo either. That shows that you invented some perspective first, then forced your objects into it. That is not the good way, particularly for a landscape painter. Draw first, and if there are horizontal parallel lines that run backwards, check for the correct perspective.

Your sketch, annotated:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Feb-2015/142886-mike.jpg

The basic principles:
Illustrated by an elementary example - a double railroad track - it is almost ridiculous that it should be explained.
1. Further away looks smaller.
2. All VP's of horizontal lines lie on the same and only horizon line aka Eye Level.
3. All lines in a group of parallel lines converge to the same VP.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Nov-2013/142886-Railroad_Tracks.jpg
On your sketch:
note 1: two horizon lines :(. How would that look in a landscape ?
note 3: further away looks smaller; remedy: check all groups of parallel lines for their VP, so in this case also to the right.
The other boxes are almost parallel with the plane of the paper, so their front edges do not converge enough to merit the control by vanishing lines.

I'm perhaps rather severe, but as a landscape painter, you must be able to avoid errors like the back being larger than the front.
So, sorry, but try again. And draw first, then check :thumbsup:. That is a general principle: draw first, then measure. Unlike the tailor or carpenter: "Measure twice, cut once" :lol:.

Dutchpen
02-15-2015, 03:44 AM
Good Morning Arnoud My repeat Exercise Hope this is a little better :crossfingers: Had to stop look and thinhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0002.jpg k hope its right!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dutchpen
02-15-2015, 03:45 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2015/1772578-m_IMG_0003.jpg

arnoud3272
02-15-2015, 04:35 PM
Mike - A lot better :thumbsup:
I fear you don't yet have a clear idea what a vanishing line is. A line is traditionally thought of as straight, Einstein taught us that it is curved, but a crooked line (highlighted in cyan) as you invented for box 4 is really novel :evil:. Vanishing lines must show you where you are wrong. The brown-red lines on box 4 are the real "vanishing lines"; clearly you did not draw what you should have seen, but what you thought how a box looked. Look again at your photo, clearly it is different. And if you had correctly drawn the VL, instead of forcing the VL to follow your sketch, you had seen it clearly. That is what a VL must do: show you where you are wrong.
A second remark: you did draw VL's for all groups of parallel lines, but you forgot to draw the VL's of all edges in the same group. Several bottom edges do not recede to the VP of the corresponding top edges. But they are parallel, aren't they, by definition.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/15-Feb-2015/142886-mike.jpg

You are far enough in this matter to move on to class 3. Class 3 is the second class on perspective, this time applied to "real" drawings.
Please pay attention to all parallel lines :thumbsup:.

Dutchpen
02-15-2015, 04:48 PM
Yes.....Thank you.... had to think over this Exercise....will remember to look for all parallel lines in the following class.............

DivotDiva
03-09-2015, 03:48 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/1892689-Four_Boxes.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/1892689-Tissue_Box.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/1892689-Table.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/1892689-Chair.jpg This took a little longer than I expected but a good lesson. I free handed the 4 boxes and used a ruler to establish VP and to draw the others.

arnoud3272
03-09-2015, 06:34 PM
DivotDiva - I see you have a good basic idea of perspective, but you loose your attention too soon. You should check all parallel lines. In the case of the table, it looks weird, even without checking the VL's :lol:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/142886-Chair.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/142886-Table.jpg

You can learn a lot by looking a bit what other pupils did, and reading the comments on it. A few posts above your entry is a picture explaining the essential principles of perspective in an intuitive way with the example of the railroad tracks. Pay particular attention to the middle case. Now look at your sketch of the 4 boxes :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2015/142886-Four_Boxes.jpg

BTW, did you sketch this from imagination? You learn much faster by drawing from real life if at all possible. For the next classes, consider the photo references as "plan B".

As you will understand, the 4-boxes sketch has a fundamental flaw, please redo it :).

DivotDiva
03-11-2015, 11:49 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2015/1892689-Boxes_redo.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2015/1892689-Chair_redo.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2015/1892689-Table_Redo.jpg thanks Arnoud, I didn't get back to it for a few days. You are correct: I lost attention! On the boxes I did draw from some in my office, the bottom one was a candy box - but no matter as I tried to put in VP on different horizons which don't exist! I started it at the office then finished at home. On the table I think I had my VPs too far off so that my eye did not line them up correctly. I will certainly work on that. Please see redone exercises. My lighting and desk area need to be upgraded so that I can line up more accurately. I think my horizon on the table was going downhill! Hopefully these exercises show some improvement. I did some other practice on the side.

Ladydolphin
03-12-2015, 07:19 AM
Hi Arnold

Here are the pictures for class 2, I had a bit of help from my Husband (tonybbc) to understand how the angles worked. I hope that I have understood it properly so here they are.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2015/1968955-Image.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2015/1968955-Image_2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2015/1968955-Image_3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2015/1968955-Image_4.jpg



Anna

Ladydolphin
03-12-2015, 08:37 AM
On the chair picture I realized that the points were in the wrong place.
Here is a second picture which I hope the points are in a better position.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2015/1968955-Image.jpg



Anna

arnoud3272
03-12-2015, 06:49 PM
DivotDiva - Yes, much improved :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
03-12-2015, 06:50 PM
Anna - Excellent :clap::clap:.
With or without help :evil:.
Very well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

sapf
03-25-2015, 08:23 AM
my exercises for class2, i hope they are ok like this.

sapf
03-25-2015, 08:24 AM
the last

arnoud3272
03-25-2015, 10:13 AM
sapf - You're off to a good start.
First advice: don't rush !

You may skip the whole theory about the differences between 1, 2, and 3 point. You don't need it as an artist, it's mathematics. But one theoretical definition is crucial - what is a vanishing line. Perhaps more important, what is NOT a vanishing line.
Lines a and b are NOT.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-not-a-VL-annot.jpg
A vanishing line shows the correct direction of a real or imaginary line. And a line has at least two points. Your drawings make it clear that you don't have a clear understanding of the definition of a VL.

So, first step first, draw the VL's on this image. We will continue from there on.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Mar-2015/142886-chair-04.jpg

Also, revisit the first post, I added an intuitive explanation.
See you :).

sapf
03-26-2015, 01:27 PM
thank you for the advice, here is the chair i hope its ok.

arnoud3272
03-26-2015, 02:06 PM
That is correct so far, sapf :clap:.
OK, I didn't mean to let you copy the photo, just draw the VL's on the photo. Now one point: you did it correctly for one set of parallel lines, but there is another set running to the right side :). I did leave room on the image :).
After drawing the second set, draw the real VL's on your previous drawing of a chair. They will not nicely converge to a VP. Don't correct, observe how the VL's are a powerful tool to see your errors. Post both practices.
You're on the right path :thumbsup:.

sapf
03-27-2015, 03:27 AM
thank you for the patience, it s so difficult. i couldn't sleep yesterday the chair hunted me. i will be reading old posts they are very tiring confusing and the same time illuminating. i thought i did not translate good but i see that others had the same problem. I will rest for today. Thank you and goodmorning.

arnoud3272
03-27-2015, 09:07 AM
sapf -

A vanishing line tells you the correct proportion of related heights.
So a IS a vanishing line, it shows you the correct sizes of the front and back legs in relation to the seat. But b is NOT, is doesn't tell anything about the left front leg. Look, why not b' ?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Mar-2015/142886-Scan_class2.5.jpg

Lines that connect only one point with a pretended vanishing point are completely useless.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

sapf
03-27-2015, 10:42 AM
ok thank you

sapf
03-27-2015, 10:44 AM
in both chairs i added an extra paper and found the vps on the same horizon.

arnoud3272
03-27-2015, 01:42 PM
Excellent, sapf :clap::clap:. Very well done.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

oakenshadows
03-31-2015, 06:58 PM
Hi, here are my drawings for Class 2. Thanks in advance for looking at them!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Mar-2015/1969633-1-2-3_point_perspective.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Mar-2015/1969633-boxes_-kleenex-table-chair.jpg

arnoud3272
04-01-2015, 10:44 AM
Well done, oakenshadows :clap:.
You understood the mechanics of perspective :thumbsup:.
But "draw what you see" is very much "see what you've drawn". Look at your chair drawing, something is odd with the seat. With a few VL's it becomes clear which edge must be corrected :).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Apr-2015/142886-oak-chair.jpg
I'm a bit disappointed with your 4-boxes. It is fully correct perspective wise, but it is so boring, all in the same direction, as a "modern" urban development. For your development in general, not just perspective, I'd advise you to redo this exercise: find an interesting arrangement ("still life") with real boxes, then draw, then check with perspective. THAT is the correct sequence to learn fast :thumbsup:.

Keep up the good work :).

oakenshadows
04-01-2015, 04:38 PM
Hi, thanks for your critique, yes the boxes were kind of boring.

Here is a reference photo I took of the boxes I drew for my redo:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Apr-2015/1969633-IMG_2438.JPG

Here is my drawing of the 4 boxes:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Apr-2015/1969633-4_Boxes_Redo.jpg

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

arnoud3272
04-02-2015, 07:58 AM
Good job, Matt :clap:.
You understand the "theory" very well, but just for your own training, observe how easy it is to lose track:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Apr-2015/142886-4_Boxes_Redo.jpg

Well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

oakenshadows
04-02-2015, 01:22 PM
You understand the "theory" very well, but just for your own training, observe how easy it is to lose track:


Yes, I have taken a closer look at my boxes and have found other problems with the lines as well, I think I need to slow down and take my time a bit more.

Thank you!

ShellyK01
04-05-2015, 12:06 AM
Hello Arnoud and everyone,

Very excited to be in class 2. I played around a little, read some earlier posts and took some notes. Have drawn 3 cubes that are facing me, to start with. Pretty sure I'm doing it right. My only challenge is getting the lines super accurate with my ruler, and I found avery sharp pencil helps.

I'll do more cubes soon, and boxes, with the angles facing me, but here's the first set.

Thanks for your efforts at giving such useful feedback in the posts Arnaud. I appreciate it.
Shelly
Cubes directly facing me. With horizon line, vanishing points, and vanishing lines to show how "further away looks smaller".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Apr-2015/1969564-image.jpg

arnoud3272
04-05-2015, 02:43 AM
Shelly - :thumbsup:

ShellyK01
04-10-2015, 01:23 AM
Have found the time to draw the tissue box. First lesson learnt was that sitting low down (leaning back in chair) created a high horizon line. I had to stick extra paper either side and above to extend my lines out to the two vanishing points. I corrected the lines and have left in my workings.

And bummer, have just stuck the longest ruler across from vanishing point to vanishing point and they are not on the same horizon line. Dang! Well, here is my first attempt. I get the theory, but can redo on a larger piece of paper so you can see my (single) horizon line.

Thanks,
Shelly

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Apr-2015/1969564-image.jpg

arnoud3272
04-10-2015, 05:05 PM
.... I corrected the lines and have left in my workings.
Very well done :clap:.

And bummer, have just stuck the longest ruler across from vanishing point to vanishing point and they are not on the same horizon line.
Well, don't bother, it is only a slight deviation. Its OK for an artist - architects are much stricter. But so often a very strict drawing looks sterile.
:thumbsup:

ShellyK01
04-12-2015, 04:16 AM
Hi, such a simple question, but I'm still having problems getting my vanishing points to not vanish off the paper (at least 6-12 inches on either side) and high up. What's the solution? Is it just "use bigger/wider paper"?

Or do I have to change where I'm viewing my cube from? I'm sitting mostly straight onto my cubes and viewing them from just a bit above eye level.

Or do I need taller cubic forms? Have just realized that my second attempt was almost the same proportions as the tissue box.

I remember learning perspective in school, and needing a page at least a foot wide to include the vanishing points on my cityscape drawing.

Thanks,
Shelly

See latest attempt below. I'm well aware that the lines are wrong, but only because I just eyeballed and extended them out, without yet having a vanishing point to line them up with.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Apr-2015/1969564-image.jpg

arnoud3272
04-12-2015, 05:23 PM
Shelly - You're very perseverant :thumbsup:.
What's the solution? Is it just "use bigger/wider paper"? There are a few possibilities:
-- tape a piece of scrap paper to the side
-- (on a drawing table) use drawing pins and pieces of string
-- (contemporary technology) use image manipulation software

Also, very often it is not necessary to draw the VL's all the way up to the VP. At least with some experience :).
If unsure, you can take it further, but obviously there are 2 lines that need correcting:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Apr-2015/142886-shelly.jpg

But don't dwell too long in this class. Be bold and draw the "still life" of 4 boxes. Don't bother too much about the geometrically correct perspective, if it looks good it is good enough. As a matter of fact, linear perspective is only a mathematical approximation, it is NOT exactly as we see the real life.

:wave:

ShellyK01
04-16-2015, 12:53 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Here is my still life of 4 boxes. The second box is actually a rectangular vase peeking out from the back. The others are just cereal boxes.

Before I shade this, am I on the right track? To my untrained eye, the vanishing points look reasonable. (Although I'm a little unsure about the bottom of box 1.)
Box 3 was facing me straight on, which is why both vanishing lines are angled back up the page.

Thanks,
Shelly

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Apr-2015/1969564-image.jpg

arnoud3272
04-16-2015, 03:19 PM
Shelly - Very well done :thumbsup:.
The lines towards the "far" VP's should converge a tad faster in order to come together on the EL. But no worries, only mathematicians would spot it :lol:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Apr-2015/142886-shelly.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Mimi007
04-16-2015, 08:29 PM
I need help understanding the idea of how to draw in perspective. I read a couple of the articles and looked at other students work. It all makes sense until I try to draw by myself.
Please look at Fig. A I can copy! But look at Fig B that I tried to do my myself. I drew lines from the rectangle to the VP but then could not figure out where to draw the second little rectangle.

Thanks in advance for your help. Kathy

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Apr-2015/1970295-IMG_2546__BD_class_2.jpg

Mimi007
04-17-2015, 12:18 AM
I think I'm beginning to understand!

Thanks for looking at these attempts. I appreciate it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Apr-2015/1970295-IMG_2547.JPG

arnoud3272
04-17-2015, 01:01 PM
I think I'm beginning to understand!...
Yes, very well :clap:.
Now using perspective to construct objects is only one aspect, mainly of interest to architects and illustrators who draw from imagination. When drawing from life or photos, perspective is a tool to check whether your interpretation is correct. That is by drawing vanishing lines on the existing drawing. There are a few photos where you can practice - these are not meant to be copied.
When doing the assignments of boxes, table, etc. draw first (the big shapes, no details) as well as possible, then check with VL's and correct if needed. That is the fastest way to learn :thumbsup:.
:wave:

Mimi007
04-17-2015, 04:45 PM
Thanks again!

ShellyK01
04-17-2015, 06:18 PM
Kathy, let me know how you go. I'm in exactly the same spot as you. Trying to draw the big shapes accurately, and find the vanishing points. And fit it all on the page.

I have trouble getting the horizon line to fit on the paper. My suggestion is to arrange your boxes, then sit and stare straight ahead. Eyes directly forward. Then keep your head still and look at your boxes. If you have to move your eyes down A LOT. or up A LOT. then the horizon line won't fit on the paper. Re-arrange your boxes so that they are either to the left, straight ahead or to right of your eyes when you are staring straight ahead.

Arnoud, sorry if this is not correct or not good advice. It took me ages of drawing boxes to figure this out. Physics is not my strong point.

Good luck,
Shelly

Mimi007
04-17-2015, 11:10 PM
Thanks Shelly! I'm working on the Kleenex box now.

Kathy

ShellyK01
04-17-2015, 11:56 PM
Me too. I'm off to shade my four boxes. :)

ShellyK01
04-18-2015, 01:02 AM
Hello Arnoud, I finished my four boxes. Got a couple of good learnings out of it.

1 is that I was focusing so much on accurate construction lines that I forgot these should be faint and incorporated into the shading. My drawing looks a little "shady" because of it.
2 is that it's as much about shading around the background of the boxes as inside the edges of the boxes. I had a really cool elliptical lamp that was throwing a cool circular shadow behind them. Didn't really do it justice with my shading though.
3. Shading technique will always be important, quality and not rushing really shows. Some parts I did better than others.
4. Having a second piece of paper taped underneath creates a line when I rub over it. I forgot about that.

Here it is...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/1969564-image.jpg

Mimi007
04-18-2015, 12:27 PM
These are my 4 boxes and the reference photo. Next I'll try to find the VPs.

Thanks for your patience. I'm trying!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/1970295-IMG_2552_2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/1970295-IMG_2553.jpg

Mimi007
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
Kleenex box reference picture and the kleenex box with VL . VL are green.

Thanks for your assistance! Much appreciated.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/1970295-FullSizeRender_9.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/1970295-kleenex_box_with_VL.jpg

arnoud3272
04-18-2015, 06:20 PM
.... If you have to move your eyes down A LOT. or up A LOT. then the horizon line won't fit on the paper. Re-arrange your boxes so that they are either to the left, straight ahead or to right of your eyes when you are staring straight ahead.

Arnoud, sorry if this is not correct or not good advice. It took me ages of drawing boxes to figure this out..... It is not wrong. On the other hand - I'll admit you need some practice with it :thumbsup: - it is quite possible to guesstimate whether the VP's are about on the same level without drawing them completely up to the EL.

arnoud3272
04-18-2015, 06:26 PM
Shelly -
You did very well with the 4 boxes :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
04-18-2015, 07:04 PM
Kathy -
You worked hard, but there is some problem. Did you read the complete first posting, including the added "rules" with their illustration of the railroad tracks?
1: further away looks smaller
2: all VL's converge on the same HL


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/142886-kathy-1A.jpg

Further away looks smaller ?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/142886-kathy-2A.jpg

Further away looks smaller ?
It is very well to choose a horizon line, but then the VL's must converge to a point on that line (red correction at the left). OR they do NOT converge because they do not recede, in that interpretation all the lines in the same group must run parallel (red correction at the right). If you opt for a small slant, then all lines in that group must give the suggestion that they go towards the HL (blue correction).

BTW, you don't need to post your reference, a drawing must be correct in itself. Sometimes it is even better not to post the reference, as it will show that you drew something very different.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/142886-kathy-1B.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Apr-2015/142886-kathy-2B.jpg

You don't need to redo these, carry on with the table and the chair, but keep in mind the 3 principles explained with the railroad rack :thumbsup:.

Mimi007
04-19-2015, 12:24 AM
table and chair

I hope these are right!!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2015/1970295-chair.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2015/1970295-table.jpg

arnoud3272
04-19-2015, 08:10 AM
Well done, Kathy :clap:.
One remark, not related to perspective, but able carpenters cut all legs of a table to the same length :lol:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Apr-2015/142886-kathy.jpg

Good job so far, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

that-art-guy
04-21-2015, 06:07 AM
First part of the lessons. Placing different boxes along a horizon line and the 4 boxes. Must admit the 4 boxes took some time but certain things really started to click like making sure everything sits on one horizon line and anything parallel to the HL doesn't converge.
It was difficult trying to visualize a vanishing point "off the page" I resulted in making the line extend onto my drawing board. I'm sure with more practice I'll be able to eyeball it though.

I'll do the other activities later today :) I hope these are correct and my understanding of perspective is correct.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2015/1970229-rsz_11.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2015/1970229-rsz_4boxes.jpg

arnoud3272
04-21-2015, 02:59 PM
Very good understanding, Lee, everything is completely correct :clap::clap:.

that-art-guy
04-21-2015, 05:11 PM
Thanks Arnoud :)
Here are my kleenex box and table. A little distortion due to the VP's being a little too close but I have identified the problem so can sort that out in the future.

The chair is proving for difficult but maybe that's because I'm mentally drained from reading and studying perspective today that it just wants a rest haha.

Apologies the image is rather light. I'll edit my images more before posting in future, or use harsher lines on my drawing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2015/1970229-rsz_kleenex.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Apr-2015/1970229-rsz_table.jpg

arnoud3272
04-22-2015, 08:10 AM
All very well done, Lee :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

sharp21
04-30-2015, 04:10 PM
Here is my perspective drawing. I combined the table, chair, and 4 boxes into one line drawing:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Apr-2015/1970765-Drawing_101_-_Lesson_2_-_Perspective.jpg

arnoud3272
04-30-2015, 05:39 PM
Several edges do not comply with the basic principles explained with the railroad track. The most important: "further away looks smaller". And those that do converge, don't follow the second principle: "only one eye level".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Apr-2015/142886-sharp.jpg

Please don't rush, take your time. And most important: be critical on your own work, check what you've done, correct if needed.

sharp21
05-01-2015, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I'll try another.
S21

sharp21
05-01-2015, 04:08 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2015/1970765-Drawing_101_-_Lesson_2_-_Perspective_2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2015/1970765-Drawing_101_-_Lesson_2_-_Perspective_1.jpg

sharp21
05-01-2015, 04:10 PM
I can see errors as soon as I post them... Maybe I should be working from a drawing board and not on the desk?

I'll try another later.
S21

Edit:
How's this?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-May-2015/1970765-Drawing_101_-_Lesson_2_-_Perspective_3.jpg

I left the lines in so you could see them. Oh, and I used a ruler!

The previous drawings I was trying to visualize the VP's off the paper, to avoid that weird error that happens when they are too close together.

arnoud3272
05-02-2015, 07:55 AM
Well done, sharp, you've understood it :clap:.
The previous drawings I was trying to visualize the VP's off the paper, to avoid that weird error that happens when they are too close together. The result is not too bad. And BTW, you don't need to run the VL's up to the VP to see crucial errors. Take for instance your drawing of the dice:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-May-2015/142886-sharp2.jpg

You're ready with the basics of perspective, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

ivonnewierink
05-09-2015, 11:57 AM
This was a very good excercise, and costed me half my eraser :angel:, but I hope this is ok :clear:

arnoud3272
05-10-2015, 04:59 AM
Good job, Ivonne, the abstract cubes and the single objects are correctly done :clap:.
But have a second look at the recently added information in post 1, with the pictures of the railroad tracks. Your drawing of the 4 boxes is suspiciously similar to the centre railroad picture :(.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-May-2015/142886-4-boxes.jpg
Traditional perspective assumes that the picture shows how one person at one moment in time sees the scene. But then there can be only one eyelevel. (The fundamental innovation of cubism was to abandon that principle).
:wave:

ivonnewierink
05-10-2015, 10:17 AM
O, why did I do that ... I think I found the wide angle to extreme. But I understand (and see) te problem, many thanks Arnoud. I started over with drawing the four boxes, hope it's better now.
I understand that the wide angle is because of the close vanishing point.

arnoud3272
05-11-2015, 10:31 AM
Ivonne - Nice correction to the right :thumbsup:.
But you got me really confused on the left side.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-May-2015/142886-perspectief-again152.jpg

I think you think too much. There is no reason whatsoever to have the VP's ON the paper, they can be far away. So far that you can safely draw them parallel.
:wave:

ivonnewierink
05-11-2015, 01:38 PM
O.M.G. more red stripes then ever... ;), I think I understand, just a moment :)

ivonnewierink
05-11-2015, 02:31 PM
I hope I understand it well now, my self-confidence is almost below zero now :lol:

arnoud3272
05-11-2015, 04:55 PM
OK, Ivonne, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

ivonnewierink
05-11-2015, 05:45 PM
Thank you, see you there. I have learned a lot from this excercise ☺

JR712
06-02-2015, 10:10 AM
Here's the first one...

arnoud3272
06-02-2015, 03:13 PM
Completely correct JR :thumbsup:

Norma46
06-03-2015, 08:52 AM
Here are my exercises for class 2.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/1893196-class_2_exercise_1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/1893196-class_3_exercise_2.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/1893196-class_2_exercise_3.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/1893196-class_2_exercise_4.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/1893196-class_2_exercise_5.jpg

Mike L
06-03-2015, 11:41 AM
Exercise 3. I have trouble visualizing the shapes. This is the best series of 4 pages trying to get it right, and I think I have.

(The boxes are giving me fits, even after three days of backing away from it, so I figured I'd send in this exercise so no one thinks I've died. Or quit :lol: )

R/Mike

arnoud3272
06-03-2015, 05:27 PM
Norma -
You're almost there, some exercises are very well done :thumbsup:.
@ the chair: the amended assignment call for a rectangular seat, you can only apply basic perspective on rectangular forms.
@ the 4 boxes: the drawing is completely correct, but the comment is off: this is NOT 3PP, not at all, it is 2PP. My advice: forget the terms 1, 2 and 3PP. I've never understood why tutorials for artists come up with this theory, it is based on a mathematical concept, the number of Cartesian axes where lines converge.
@ the table: revisit the first posting, the edit of this year with the railroad tracks. You probably reacted with yeah, of course, obvious. But look how you made exactly that error:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/142886-norma-table.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

arnoud3272
06-03-2015, 05:34 PM
Exercise 3. I have trouble visualizing the shapes. Don't overthink it.
If something is above the eye level, then surely you are looking at the bottom, isn't it?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Jun-2015/142886-mike.jpg

A very common advice to beginning artists is to work from real life, not from photos or from memory/imagination :thumbsup:.

Norma46
06-04-2015, 01:52 PM
Not sure what you want me to do to complete class 2. Should I try to draw a chair again (I don't have a reference that meets the assignment criteria). Should I redraw the table? Please advise.

arnoud3272
06-04-2015, 05:12 PM
Not sure what you want me to do to complete class 2. Should I try to draw a chair again (I don't have a reference that meets the assignment criteria). Should I redraw the table? Please advise. I think it would be wise to redo the table. It is a very common error, and if you think about it, it shouldn't. After all it is just a cube with big holes in the sides :).
:wave:

Norma46
06-06-2015, 01:27 PM
Here is the resubmit of my class 2 exercise 3. Your comment about the table just being a big cube that is empty in the center finally clicked with me. BTW, don't think I was the one that mentioned 3 point perspective.

Please advise if I am ready to move to class 3.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Jun-2015/1893196-class_2_exercise_4.jpg

arnoud3272
06-07-2015, 03:38 AM
Correctly done, Norma :thumbsup:.
BTW, don't think I was the one that mentioned 3 point perspective. What else could I read than 3 Pt Perspective?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jun-2015/142886-norma.jpg

Good job in this class, please move on to class 3

Amity
07-11-2015, 12:57 PM
When the instruction says pick your vanishing point, I know that it on the horizon line, but I don't understand where. Is it random dot that could be way to the left or right of the sheet of paper? How to choose?:o

arnoud3272
07-12-2015, 03:34 AM
When the instruction says pick your vanishing point, I know that it on the horizon line, but I don't understand where. Is it random dot that could be way to the left or right of the sheet of paper? How to choose?:o Welcome to the classroom, Amity :).
There are two scenarios:
-- when using perspective for constructing from imagination, you're completely free. BUT, a bad choice will give an unpleasant effect, so try it out.
-- when drawing from a reference, you find the HL and VP's by analysing the reference.
After that, for sure, you can change them a bit for a better compositon :thumbsup:.
:wave:

Amity
07-14-2015, 10:55 AM
Thanks. Is the vanishing point sometimes way off your paper? I read that somewhere. Hope not, it will worry me even more. (I have been putting off for years learning perspective once and for all.

arnoud3272
07-14-2015, 04:30 PM
Thanks. Is the vanishing point sometimes way off your paper? Of course it is.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jul-2015/142886-kleenex-photo.jpg

For VP's that are not too far out you can temporarily tape an extra sheet of paper to the side. Still further away, just guess. At least with some practice, it is easy to see the gross errors from the start of the VL. Like the back being larger than the front.
:wave:

Amity
07-15-2015, 08:45 AM
I see. So then I guess it's art, not an exact science. I'm beginning to understand.

kricketbelle
07-24-2015, 07:50 PM
Hi Arnoud...Here are are a couple of completed assignments...2.2, and 2.3. Let me know if my pictures are too light, I will try to get them a bit darker, or use a darker pencil...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jul-2015/1973590-class2-2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Jul-2015/1973590-class2-3.jpg

Thank you for all the feedback...I drew many many rectangles, and i did terribly...i don't think i even got two the same...I'll keep working at it, thanks for your time!

arnoud3272
07-25-2015, 02:56 AM
Well done, Josee :clap:.
A darker pencil won't help necessarily. Camera auto settings don't interpret graphite correctly. The best way is to "post-process (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572823)" in a photo manipulation program.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

kricketbelle
07-25-2015, 09:39 AM
Good Morning Arnoud!

I am very pleased with how much I am learning in this assignment...I was really dreading drawing a chair again...but perspective is the perfect tool to fix the mistakes we make in drawing by eye alone...It's like a lightbulb went on! Thank you! I first drew the chair eyeballing it...and as expected I had squished it again...I was able to fix it with perspective!!! It's not perfect by any means, but it's not squished!!!! I'm making connections and learning, Thanks again! Please feel free to point out any errors in my drawing...I see some for sure, but I'm hoping that with time and patience I will get better! I'm going to attempt the table next, and the Kleenex box...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jul-2015/1973590-class2chair.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jul-2015/1973590-class2.4chair.jpg

arnoud3272
07-25-2015, 10:11 AM
Very well done, Josee :clap:.
Indeed, perspective is a very powerful tool.
:wave:

kricketbelle
07-25-2015, 09:36 PM
Hi Arnoud,

Here are the last two assignments.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jul-2015/1973590-Class2Kleenexbox.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Jul-2015/1973590-class2table.jpg

Have a great day!

cvt50000
07-26-2015, 09:34 AM
Here are my attempts at items 1 & 2. 3 & 4 will come later this week pending feedback on these first two.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2015/1966760-Cubes-min.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Jul-2015/1966760-Kleenex_Box-min.jpg

arnoud3272
07-27-2015, 05:32 AM
Josee -
I'm a bit disappointed. You did very well until now, but the table has the typical error that I showed in the picture with the railroad tracks:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jul-2015/142886-josee-tafel.jpg

Top and legs are parallel as a rule, so they should have the same VP. Additionally, as a detail, the side of the leg runs parallel to the side of the top, I assume. So again, should converge to the same VP.

The kleenex box is drawn as engineers or technical illustrators would draw, with parallel sides. Its not wrong in itself, but it is not in perspective. Remember the first rule, further away looks smaller.
The error with the table should be simple to avoid. After all, a table is just a cube with large holes :).

arnoud3272
07-27-2015, 07:40 AM
cvt50000 -
Well done :clap:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jul-2015/142886-cvt-Kleenex.jpg

On another aspect than perspective, see the blue lines, I don't think the box was squished. With hidden parts it is important to take care of correct alignment. And most people need to look for it very consciously. For instance, crossed legs could look very weird if you forget.
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

kricketbelle
07-27-2015, 08:25 AM
Hi Arnoud,

Thanks for the feedback! Ok I will fix those errors and re-submit. I got really frustrated with the kleenex box, I couldn't quite make it look right...and then I rushed through the table...The feedback really helps!

kricketbelle
07-27-2015, 10:26 AM
Hi Arnoud,

I understand what I did wrong...Here are the revised drawings...I ended up drawing the table and tissue box before making any decisions about the perspective...I drew what I thought I saw and then tried to apply perspective. This time around I made all the perspective decisions first, like eye line, and vanishing points...then drew my items..I drew the details I saw on the boxes after all the main lines were drawn...Is this a typical way of applying perspective, or am I doing something wrong?...Obviously the second drawing are much more accurate...I also noticed that drawing the perspective lines first made drawing these two items very very easy...I didn't struggle to draw the second time all, and I had no frustration whatsoever...the first 10 tries were very very difficult...I want to thank you again...I am learning so much!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jul-2015/1973590-class2box2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jul-2015/1973590-class2table2.jpg

Have a wonderful day!

arnoud3272
07-27-2015, 03:52 PM
Excellent, Josee :clap:.
Is this a typical way of applying perspective, It is one of possible ways :thumbsup:.
Deciding on the perspective first is the typical way of drawing from imagination.
When drawing from life, it is better - the result looks less mathematical :) - to draw the basic shape freehand, then check (and correct) the perspective. An example with your first drawing of the kleenex box:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Jul-2015/142886-josee-Kleenexbox.jpg

I chose two lines and a HL that "looked right", and shifted the other edges.
Of course, you would do that before adding details, always draw the big shapes first.

Well done, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

Katie2065
07-29-2015, 09:46 PM
Hello again, Arnoud,

I have never really understood perspective, so I am going to take this class slowly and check every step of the way, if that is OK with you.

I dont have the book but I have read the instructions and looked through the thread. I understand there is also a guest lecture too, and I shall take a look at that.

Here is the first exercise with the squares and lines. If this is correct I shall try a single box from life.

Thank you, Katie

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jul-2015/1973796-perspective_1-1.jpeg

Katie2065
07-29-2015, 10:56 PM
Hi Arnoud, me again. :wave: I had a go at the single box…4 goes actually. I shall show you my 1st and 4th attempts.

I really am stopping now. There is no point in going on if I have misunderstood this!

The thing is, although I can see from the lines the first box is wrong…it sort of looks better. Maybe I am overly attached to it because I drew it first and was disappointed it was not right. :lol:

Thank you for looking at these,
Cheers, Katie

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jul-2015/1973796-perspective_2-1.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Jul-2015/1973796-perspective_4.jpeg

cvt50000
07-30-2015, 09:14 AM
Here are my attempts at the chair and the table. Both feel off for different reasons but I am posting for feedback.

The right side of the table feels a little off.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/1966760-Table-min.jpg


After uploading the image I realized that I forgot to add depth to the back of the chair.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/1966760-Chair-min.jpg

arnoud3272
07-30-2015, 05:02 PM
Katie - I see that you understand the theory very well :thumbsup:. Now to apply it in a sensible way, not so fixed on the mathematics.
Perspective is a tool, it is not a recipe for good work. It helps you to avoid errors, but many ugly drawings can be perfectly correct perspective wise :(.

You saw correctly what was wrong in the first drawing, but instead of applying your correction - shifting the back edge:...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/142886-katie-1.jpeg

you shifted the front edge. Mathematically no problem, but it doesn't look nice.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/142886-katie-2.jpeg

As a general rule, take care that the front corners are not too sharp. A problem with many tutorials of "experts".

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/142886-ugly.jpg


Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
07-30-2015, 05:23 PM
cvt50000 - A good start, but some fundamental principles are a bit hazy I fear.
First: what is a vanishing line? and if you do understand it correctly, please don't draw scaffolding lines that are no VL, you get me confused.
I don't see what the red lines are supposed to show. And unless it is so faint that I cannot see it, I miss the blue line.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/142886-cvt-chair.jpg

In the case of cuboid objects, vanishing lines show you the correct location and proportion of the corners. That is what the first assignment is about, to see the VL's.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jul-2015/142886-cube.jpg

A second point, please re-visit the intuitive, non-mathematical, rules explained with the railroad tracks. Sure, to apply these principles you need to draw the VL's, but understand them first.
--further away looks smaller
--there is only one HL
--all parallel lines in a set go to the same VP

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Katie2065
07-31-2015, 04:15 AM
Thank you Arnoud, its good to know I am on the right track.

The difference with the second tissue box was that I cheated with a bit of reverse construction. So…with the 4 little boxes exercise, I drew the boxes from life. I was tempted to take a photo of them, but as I want to draw from life…not photos…I might as well get on with it now! :lol:

1. I drew the boxes, as I thought I saw them.

2. I checked the perspective. Some was not bad but a lot was quite out, particularly the back of the middle box of the stack…and the vertical lines! I seem to have an issue with vertical!

3. Then I picked 2 edges from each box I thought 'looked nice' and used them as my base lines. I worked out the horizon roughly by counting the tiles on the kitchen wall to work out how much above the boxes it was, then realized it was about the top of the paper. I sent off my 'base lines' until they hit the horizon, then adjusted the others to match.

The first picture has all the lines, the original and the corrected ones. Its looked kind of messy, so I traced the boxes in the (hopefully!) correct perspective onto a new piece of paper.

I am now going to try the kitchen chair. Again, I shall resist temptation to photograph it. :lol:

Thank you for looking at these, and your helpful comments on the previous ones.

Katie

PS…just looked at it in preview post to see if it uploaded Ok…and the little box on top of the stack! it has a vanishing point on a horizon all of its own! :eek: Obviously an independent character! I shall leave it for now…let me know if you would like me to redraw it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2015/1973796-little_boxes.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2015/1973796-little_boxes-1.jpeg

arnoud3272
07-31-2015, 03:21 PM
Katie - Very well done :clap::clap:.
You've a good understanding of perspective :thumbsup:. You're only missing the practice to see all the subtleties, but you proceed well. No need to redraw, this class is not about finished drawings, but about study.
In the same vein, I'd like to draw your attention to another discrepancy:
All lines in a set of parallel lines share the same VP. Reversing the rule, lines that share a VP run parallel, see the blue lines. But as we assume these are rectangular boxes, also the other edges (red) should be drawn parallel :(.
Now I assume that in the real life setup, the boxes did have a different orientation. So the relevant left VP should shift to the right.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Jul-2015/142886-katie.jpeg

Happy drawing :).

Katie2065
08-01-2015, 12:39 AM
Thank you, Arnoud. It took me a moment or two, but I understand what you are saying. I shall get there! It is amazing what I have learnt in just these few lessons…and staggering to think just how far I have still to go!

Onto the table and chair. Both are sturdy wooden furniture, drawn from life. The table is a small low table, the chair a kitchen chair.

The biggest mistake with both in the initial sketch was to make the back legs way too long. On the table the furthest back leg was also badly misplaced.

The second thing that was major for me, was realizing, with the chair, I was below the horizon! I was sitting on a low sofa and first did the legs and seat in a light sketch, like a box. When that was more or less OK I added in the back…to discover I was below it and the lines would run the other way.

My first thought was to fetch a cushion to make me higher :wink2: but then I decided to give it a go as things will be both above and below my eye line all the time, I suppose.

As I finished it and was looking at the chair I noticed I had drawn the VL from the front of one leg and the back of its pair. The back leg was the one I had had all the trouble with and I decided in the end to leave it. I am not a carpenter, (which is just as well if you saw the first drawing!)

And, of course, I seem to have trouble staying vertical….:lol:

here they are :crossfingers:

Katie


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Aug-2015/1973796-table.jpeg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Aug-2015/1973796-chair.jpeg

arnoud3272
08-01-2015, 03:57 PM
Very well done, Katie :clap:.
No problems with perspective :thumbsup:.
But don't be too much fixed on perspective. The chair is screaming "Look, I'm a perspective study" :lol:. The front corners are much too sharp for a realistic drawing, you've put the VP's too close together.

Well done on the assignments for this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

Katie2065
08-01-2015, 05:05 PM
The chair is screaming "Look, I'm a perspective study" :lol:. :


It is rather, isn't it , :lol: but I'm still quite proud of it :D

Thank you for the lessons. Perspective is always why I have stopped trying to learn to draw in the past....people would say of my tentative efforts,
"well, it's quite nice, but isn't there something wrong with the perspective?" And I never got past that stage.

Onto lesson 3. See you there.:wave:

naoip
08-18-2015, 02:52 AM
Work for Class 2...Finding i'm a to heavy handed, which is leading me to the mechanical pencils for next lessons, which may help..

arnoud3272
08-18-2015, 05:15 PM
Andy - It is mathematically completely correct :thumbsup:.
But it is not "nice". It screams "Look I'm a mathematical exercise".
Perspective is only a tool. The advice was to draw first, use perspective to check for inconsistent proportions.
When using it to "construct" from imagination - as you did - the artist needs to guard against drawing unrealistic and impossible objects. (Of course this class assumes the aim to draw realistically.)
Those corners are far too sharp, they never can be less than 90 °. Test it out with a real box, when looking completely down on it, the corner is 90 °, when lowering the HL, it is becoming larger.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2015/142886-andy-1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2015/142886-andy-2.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Aug-2015/142886-andy-3.jpg

The cause is that you put the VP's far too close together.
It is OK for now, but in next class draw first, and preferably from real life for your own development.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

naoip
08-18-2015, 06:12 PM
Hi thanks for the advice, think I need to concentrate a bit longer on this lesson and take on board what you've said for the next lesson as well, thanks again...

naoip
08-19-2015, 01:54 AM
Arnond I've got a question, on the picture with various boxes, that was the way I arranged them...Where I think i went wrong, i didn't sketch it out first, and worked out the perspectives as I went along..

As an artist do you make the choice to spread out the 2 vanishing points, even if in reality they are close together?
Thanks in advance aj

arnoud3272
08-19-2015, 03:16 AM
...
As an artist do you make the choice to spread out the 2 vanishing points, even if in reality they are close together?
Andy, the point is, they are never so close together. The VP is a "fiction", a mathematical construction to ease seeing the correct proportions. There is no physical reality. The corners of the boxes define where the VP's will be. And as the corner can never be sharper than 90 °, the VP's will be defined far enough apart if you look carefully at what is really there. And yes, yes, our eyes are tricking us about perspective.

naoip
08-19-2015, 08:41 AM
That's very helpful thanks for your time

Anne58
09-13-2015, 08:21 AM
Here are my drawings for this class, the 4 box study and also the tissue box

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Sep-2015/1974832-IMG_2149.JPG

Anne

malworks
09-13-2015, 01:49 PM
I tried softening the edges in these studies so they didn't look so stiff, but I fear I may have tweaked the lines and now they look funny to me.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Sep-2015/1975376-wetcanvas_class2.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Sep-2015/1975376-wetcanvas_class2b.jpg

arnoud3272
09-13-2015, 03:41 PM
Correctly done, Anne :clap:.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

arnoud3272
09-13-2015, 04:01 PM
Mallory -
Did you memorize the basic rules explained with the double railroad tracks ?
1. Further away looks smaller
How is that with this box?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Sep-2015/142886-mallory-box.jpg

2. There is only one horizon line
The VL's to the right will definitely not come together on the same line as on the left.
3. Parallel lines share the same VP
The legs are parallel to the seat. As a matter of fact, this should be an easy exercise, it is just a cube with big holes in the sides :lol:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Sep-2015/142886-mallory-chair.jpg

As a general principle, in all drawing and painting, go for the correct big shapes, before embellishing it. And in this class stiff lines are OK, even preferred. It is then easier to judge whether you understand the subject matter.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

widdly
09-14-2015, 10:53 PM
I did a 1 point, 2 point and 3 point perspective.

The 3 point looks a bit weird. I think the vertical vanishing point is too close.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Sep-2015/1975128-class2.jpg

widdly
09-15-2015, 06:23 AM
I'm doing this during spare moments at work so please excuse the office stationary. Thanks for taking the time arnoud3272!

arnoud3272
09-15-2015, 08:01 AM
widdly -
Well done :clap:.
3PP is always strange if you think traditional art. Nowadays the general public thinks it is normal because everyone is taking photos and cameras photograph in 3PP unless handled by a professional. But artists - also photographers - have always shunned 3PP except for a particular effect. E.g. the iconic crucifixion by Dali; or in comics.
Please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:

Two-A
09-17-2015, 09:00 PM
Here are my drawings for class 2, I had some trouble putting the words in line with the rest of the drawing. And I'm kinda starting to hate chairs :lol:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img013.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img011.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img010.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img012.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img014.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img015.jpg img01http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img016.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-img017.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Sep-2015/1974612-linon-anna-antique-black-chair.86100C124-01-KD-U.2._raw.jpg

arnoud3272
09-18-2015, 06:06 PM
Adrian - Some of your work is very good :clap:.
But I think you'd better re-visit the most basic, most important principles, as illustrated with the double railroad tracks.
1. further away looks smaller

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2015/142886-two-a.jpg

2. third principle Parallel lines share the same VP
The legs are parallel to the top. As a matter of fact, this should be an easy exercise, it is just a cube with big holes in the sides :lol:.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2015/142886-two-a-table.jpg

You don't have to re-submit these. When you've understood the issue, show me the last assignment, a set of four boxes. Hint: this is a test on the second principle there is only one HL

:wave:

Raindrop
09-28-2015, 08:10 AM
I'll post the first half today, as I'm not sure when I'll be able to do the rest. I've only drawn a few "theoretical" cubes and the box of tissues so far. It's a very interesting exercise!

Something I've noticed while looking at my box of tissues, which was on the floor next to a chair, is that when, for whatever reason, I lost focus and looked at something else (the chair, the desk), my horizon line changed. I.e. I was looking up instead of down, or with a tilt instead of straight on, and the horizon line shifted at the same time.

So the way I understand it, and I may be completely wrong there, is that the horizon line is a combination of eye height (sitting, standing, short or tall person...) + direction (up, down, tilted, straight on...).

The other thing is that once we've defined a horizon line, we have to stick to it; that might be tricky when drawing more than one object because our focus changes, especially when their sizes are different. Triiiiicky!

And another, other thing is that I found it difficult to keep the lettering straight! If I were to do a finished drawing including that element, I'd definitely spend more time on that. The oval cut-out is some sort of torture device, too.

TL/DR: That was a lot of fun!

arnoud3272
09-28-2015, 12:55 PM
Very well done so far, Raindrop :clap:.
Except of course that you put the VP's far too close together in the drawing of the 2 boxes. It may be look mathematically correct, but it is physically impossible :(.
...
Something I've noticed while looking at my box of tissues, which was on the floor next to a chair, is that when, for whatever reason, I lost focus and looked at something else (the chair, the desk), my horizon line changed. I.e. I was looking up instead of down, or with a tilt instead of straight on, and the horizon line shifted at the same time.

So the way I understand it, and I may be completely wrong there, is that the horizon line is a combination of eye height (sitting, standing, short or tall person...) + direction (up, down, tilted, straight on...).
...
No, the Horizon Line IS the Eye Level, period. There is a mathematical proof for it. What changes when looking up or down is the position of the HL in your field of view, you change to a different cropping. But the HL does not change in relation to the objects, nor is their perspective changing.

The trick to draw text in perspective - in fact to draw anything in any conceivable distortion - is to use a distorted grid. It was thoroughly applied by Escher, see here (http://im-possible.info/english/articles/escher_printgallery/) (at How did Escher do it?).
Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

Raindrop
09-30-2015, 04:42 AM
Horizon != Field of View. Sounds evident when you put it that way. :lol: I think I've finally sussed it out. I feel silly, in retrospective, because the answer was right there on my second drawing: if I can see the top of the object, then my horizon line is above that; if I can see the bottom, then naturally my horizon line is below that. When I sit, that horizon line will change; when I look up or down, it doesn't. I can still see the top / bottom of objects the same way.

That study on Escher was fascinating. I'd love to give that method a try (or something similar - maybe with a different multiplication factor, for example, knowing that it will "break at the seams"), once I'm a lot more skilled.

Anyway, the rest of the assignment. Sorry about the four boxes, I really got carried away with the details. I'm happy about the chair, not so much about the table - I drew a lot of it free-hand, and my verticals tend to converge. I suppose it's good to know that I tend to do that!

Two-A
10-01-2015, 08:11 AM
Here's the set of 4 boxes
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Oct-2015/1974612-img018.jpg

arnoud3272
10-01-2015, 08:22 AM
Raindrop -
What happened ?
You've certainly heard about the pitfall of drawing what you think instead of what you see. You drew the objects in this second instalment as an engineer, showing what it is, not how it looks in a life environment. Didn't you read "further away looks smaller"?
I'm a bit confused all the more because you did draw what would be vanishing lines. That should have rung a bell ! No convergence at all:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Oct-2015/142886-raindrop-FourBoxes.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Oct-2015/142886-raindrop_Table.jpg

And don't say that it looked exactly like that. Measure the front edge with your thumb and pencil or knitting needle. Don't move your thumb and shift to the back edge. The difference is much larger than you thought.

Raindrop
10-02-2015, 12:14 PM
Hmm. I'm not having much luck with my internet connection today, so let's hope this goes through!

I'd spotted the error on the back right corner of the black box right after posting- that was a "Oh well, I can live with that" moment - but definitely not the left hand side. I checked with a protractor: 137 degrees, to the dot, for both lines. Dammit. On the plus side I'm good at eye-balling parallels!!! :lol:

The bottom of the box around the kneaded eraser actually converges, but it doesn't seem that way because I lost the main edge of the box. The left hand side is definitely off. It is also too deep.

Table: in hindsight, I shouldn't have done it straight after the chair. That was just too much. I had a good start - the legs, in particular, were fine to start with - until I started adding the tabletop. That really lost me, and I tweaked and tweaked and overcompensated ... and bam, parallels! Even though I could have sworn, looking at my drawing, that they converged.

I'm trying the table again, with glasses on, this time. I'm astigmatic and I don't usually bother with glasses, but that might make a difference. I've drawn a "theoretical" table - I made sure the sets of parallels converged, and they do, *but* the back corner seems too high again. As if I'm trying to unwrap it and look at it from different angles. Which is interesting, but not what I'm after!!!

I'm going to give another table a go - eyeball, then check. Fingers crossed...

arnoud3272
10-02-2015, 05:31 PM
:thumbsup:

edjuh
10-05-2015, 06:46 AM
Freehand versus the real thing makes you appreciate drawing what you see instead drawing what you thought you saw ....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2015/1975549-DSCN1373.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2015/1975549-DSCN1374.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2015/1975549-DSCN1375.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2015/1975549-DSCN1376.JPG

Conclusion. If there is the need to be technical, rather than arty, be technical.
It sure does improve the endresult !

arnoud3272
10-05-2015, 01:39 PM
Almost correct, Ed :clap:.
Did you look at your work in progress from a distance a few times? It helps to see errors.
Third principle: (see the railroad tracks) All parallel lines of a group share the VP
And if that picture of the tracks is not intuitive enough: the legs of a chair and the seat form a cube together (with big holes in the side :lol:)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Oct-2015/142886-ed-chair.JPG

You made the same error on the table, but only very slightly. But on the chair it is very apparent, without the need to construct the VL's, that there is a twist in its back.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

edjuh
10-05-2015, 05:16 PM
It was a hand-sketch, both the table and chair.
They are about 2 meters away from me.
Will do them tomorrow, WITH a ruler. Thanks for the head-up.
( tot morgen alvast )

arnoud3272
10-06-2015, 03:13 AM
Ed - :thumbsup:
They are about 2 meters away from me. Then I'm pretty sure that the edges converge much faster than you thought.
See my comments on measuring to Raindrop above.
And oh, the best way to improve is to sketch freehand first, then measure and correct. First measuring for putting reference points down and then connect them is less efficient for learning.
:wave:

Raindrop
10-07-2015, 05:48 AM
Talking about Raindrop... :lol:

Another set of boxes, and another table... :crossfingers: I don't like drawing from pictures, but in the case of the table, I unfortunately don't have a choice. I think I should have dropped down the back corner of the table a bit; again, it went reasonably smoothly until I added the tabletop. Silly how such a small element makes it difficult for me; it's just a box on top of another box, after all.

The boxes were fun. I find it easier to draw triangles than rectangles, and that set-up had lots of triangular shapes to help me!

I drew most lines by hand (except when checking the vanishing lines); it looks a bit wonky but I don't bring a ruler with me when I go out to draw stuff... so I have to learn not to rely on that tool.

Now I just have to :crossfingers: ! :lol:

Raindrop
10-07-2015, 05:56 AM
Urgh. The four boxes are all wrong. I have to start again.

Raindrop
10-07-2015, 08:37 AM
Ok, I wanted to edit my previous post to add the new drawing, so as to avoid flooding the thread, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. :confused:

Anyway, back to the drawing board, and this time - after another failure - I moved the boxes to my windowsill and sat a bit further away. And... night and day. Suddenly I could see which lines were smaller, which corners were closer to me and where they stood in relation to the other boxes.

Let's see, this time... :crossfingers:

arnoud3272
10-07-2015, 11:11 AM
Very well done, Raindrop :clap:.
Very good observation that the first version of the boxes was wrong :clap:.

You did a good job in this class, please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

BTW, "common" members have a time window of 1 hour to edit their own post. Moderators have the power to edit any post, any time :lol:.

Two-A
10-07-2015, 03:47 PM
Hey, I was wondering if you had reviewed my last drawing, sorry for asking.

arnoud3272
10-07-2015, 05:22 PM
Hey, I was wondering if you had reviewed my last drawing, sorry for asking.Sorry, Adrian, you're right :o.
I must have skipped your post.
Well, you did it correctly, so please move on to class 3 :thumbsup:.

m_od
10-31-2015, 12:51 PM
Ex. 2 -Cubes

I made a number of the cubes go to same vp to see differences. Then tried a couple of different vps. The one cube I put directly on the HL....with vp slightly to the left I believe all I would see is the front plane? So did not make it a 3-d cube. I would assume how far you go from center to be able to see a second or 3rd plane? Looking at my computer as I type this, in similar HL I see front and a side (similar to the 2nd from top on right...but I am lower so do not see top of computer. As I move to the right I only see the front plane.

Oops as I look at the drawing again I missed the top right second set of lines :eek:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2015/1976998-Cubes.jpg

arnoud3272
10-31-2015, 03:36 PM
Very thorough study, m_od :clap:.
You're completely correct in your conclusions.
how far you go from center to be able to see a second or 3rd plane? In this situation, where you look straight to the front plane - i.e. not towards a corner, then you see either side of the corner - the VP is exactly in the center of your field of view. So you start seeing the side plane when the VP is no longer hidden by the object.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

m_od
10-31-2015, 06:49 PM
Thanks arnoud for the reply:) .....I did a quick drawing of the 4 boxes....I better go back and work some more!! First drawing is without the guidelines from paint....I had drawn the pencil lines after I sketched and tried to correct some.

Second one is same drawing with the paint guidelines....as I was prepping to put on forum I tried to do what you have been showing other students. But wanted to make sure I am applying correctly. With so many lines I should reduce the weight of the lines.

Lots of corrections still....Also off a bit on proportion the glasses box should be a bit smaller than the dominos box on top and the left box should be slightly taller than the right big box.

I was maybe 3 feet away when drawing: The glasses box looked even to me horizontally so how do you show the converging when the vp appears to far away (way off the paper)? I know at some point they will converge but when close hard to draw the difference?

Front part of dominos box (top of big box) back edge to tall...

Also on the left box, I had trouble drawing the right side of the box. I could only see a bit more than a sliver of it. The back edge almost wanted to run into the front right edge?? Or I am just off on the perspective.....

Not so easy to do perspective...always skipped that part in the drawing books :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2015/1976998-4_boxes_no_guidelines.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2015/1976998-4_Boxes_with_guidelines.jpg

m_od
10-31-2015, 07:26 PM
I know not part of the class projects but I remembered a drawing I did a month or so ago from another website. I never got it right in many ways but going through this class, I think an issue is wrong perspective? If so let me know. I want to go back and see if I can correct to the right perspective after I complete the other projects for this class.

Top of the lighter case appears bigger than the bottom....then the lid another hard thing for me.


Thanks,http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2015/1976998-Lighter.jpg

m_od
11-01-2015, 05:48 AM
Kleenex Box - One item I corrected was the flap on left side. Original was the purple line. Not sure if that was right....tried to make it a bit smaller than the front(nearest) edge of flap by raising it up towards the top edge of left side.

Another question - The panel on right side with the large flower...when I look at the actual box it appears to be longer than the left side panel. The actual measurements are equal on the box. I just measured my box sides and they are close to same measurements. I am not sure I captured same longer look. Although looking at my actual sketch vs. photo I am closer.

Is the appearance of being longer part of the perspective? Or some foreshortening? Or I just need stronger glasses? :lol:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2015/1976998-kleenex.jpg

arnoud3272
11-01-2015, 03:26 PM
Good job, m_od :clap:.
Understanding the foundation of perspective is very simple, in fact apart from the vanishing line principle - and that is after all only a tool - there is nothing to understand, it is just the formal description of what everyone can (should) observe. Remember the railtrack pictures in the first post. But the consistent application is very difficult in the beginning. But that is exactly "learning to draw what you see", it takes some practice.

All VP's of horizontal lines lie in the same and only horizon line. When the lines are only slightly receding, it is good enough to guess how they run. But in two places on the 4-boxes drawing, it is clearly not correct:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2015/142886-4_boxes.jpg

And again on the Kleenex box:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2015/142886-kleenex.jpg

The glasses box looked even to me horizontally so how do you show the converging If you look straight on to the front plane, all sides are at the same distance, so NO perspective, "further away looks smaller".

The lighter is lying on the table and you are looking down to it, so the "normal" HL does not apply, that is only for horizontal lines. But you can imagine that there is a VP deep in the earth. Anyway, "further away looks smaller", not larger as you drew it.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2015/142886-Lighter.jpg

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

m_od
11-02-2015, 11:27 AM
Thanks again for the feedback arnoud!

I guess I was too wrapped up in trying to draw freehand prior to checking perspective then correcting. Also when I did check I was more worried about the rule of smaller the further away....So totally missed only one HL.
So saying that the two boxes that happen to align up on a same HL was totally by accident :lol:

I will work on correcting when I get home from work. And to echo many, I appreciate you taking time to go through our drawings. I could not find anyone where I live to do similar in RL....so this is very beneficial!

m_od
11-03-2015, 07:33 PM
2nd attempt at Kleenex Box - Hopefully more technically correct. I have a terrible time drawing freehand prior to the checking...they are always wrong :(
I taped two papers on either side of my drawing to put the vps out further.

I will work on the 4 boxes next then get to the chair and table. If they take as long as the first 2 exercises....will be a bit :)

Question - I assume the oval where the Kleenex comes out has to have perspective as well? Looks like I needed to correct that as well.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2015/1976998-Kleenex_2_-_b.jpg