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artsygala
12-10-2009, 03:25 PM
In 1990, I was granted signature status in the PSWC. With my ego buoyed by this, I thought to try for the PSA but the idea faded away and I didn't give it another thought until now.

Do many people get accepted first try?

There are some fabulous pastels posted here that are certainly on par with works posted in the PSA's gallery. Is there any one else here thinking of trying for PSA membership?

How important do you think PSA membership is to your success as a pastellist?

Colorix
12-10-2009, 06:25 PM
There are some PSA members here, so they'll be able to reply.

What I have is a piece of information I gleaned from a guy who interviewed galleries. Most galleries were not impressed by signature memberships, some even thought it to be a negative (a rare few), but one mentioned an exception -- you've guessed it, the PSA, they thought that to be a guarantee of consistent high quality of work.

Charlie

artsygala
12-10-2009, 06:50 PM
Thanks for your response, Charlie.

That's quite an affirmation of the PSA's reputation.

Phil Bates
12-10-2009, 07:12 PM
Hi Gillian,

I applied for PSA associate membership two years ago, then last year applied for signature and was accepted. I fully expected it to take 5 years or so of re-applying, so I was pleasantly surprised. Be sure and apply if you have some pieces ready that you are proud of. All three should be consistently excellent. One thing that may have helped, was a list I asked them to consider of all the shows I had exhibited in 2008. (I admit that I was kind of over-the-top with 19 shows, frankly too much work to keep up each year).

I can attest that PSA signature has been a good thing for me.

Phil

artsygala
12-11-2009, 02:04 AM
Thanks for you insight, Phil. I went to your website and was humbled.

The PSA membership form asks for a resume about art education, membership in art associations, awards, and publications. You pointed out all the exhibitions you had and thought that might have attributed to your being accepted.

I think the quality of your art alone should have been the only criterion.

This isn't meant to disparage the PSA because most other art associations now ask for the same thing, but what about artists who don't have the money to ship their pastels to exhibitions or enter multiple art contests? What about artists who are self-taught?

If that is the case, I don't stand a chance!

Kathryn Wilson
12-11-2009, 09:39 AM
I'd be interested to hear the answer to your questions Gillian - those of us who are starving artists and haven't got the money to ship to multiple shows and who are self-taught.

Perhaps someone with PSA is peeking in on this thread and can step forward with some suggestions and answers.

Colorix
12-11-2009, 11:03 AM
I second Kathryn!

I'm in the midst of investigating such rules, and the whys and wherefores of them, as I have to come up with something half-intelligent for the PGE.

One reason is to show a consistency of production -- that is, that one has not just painted a one-time-wonder. Another is to show that one is indeed focusing on pastel painting. High skill-level is a must for a signature member.

If I remember correctly, you apply to the PSA, and get assigned a membership level, either member or signature member.

Charlie

Phil Bates
12-11-2009, 11:46 AM
...The PSA membership form asks for a resume about art education, membership in art associations, awards, and publications. You pointed out all the exhibitions you had and thought that might have attributed to your being accepted.

..This isn't meant to disparage the PSA because most other art associations now ask for the same thing, but what about artists who don't have the money to ship their pastels to exhibitions or enter multiple art contests? What about artists who are self-taught?

If that is the case, I don't stand a chance!

Just to clarify, the PSA only requires a resume for the Associate Member form. The application for Signature does not require a resume.

When I applied for Associate Member, I had very little on my resume at that time (I haven't been doing this for long). I'm not alone, I think many others apply for the Associate Membership earlier in their career when their resumes are typically sparse. I didn't mean to imply that exposure to multiple art shows is required to advance in PSA.

I am a business entrepreneur and when I invest in a venture, I go "all in" (which is why I stay away from Vegas). Twice in my life I have mortgaged the house, bet the farm and my lively-hood on businesses that fortunately panned out. I have taken a similar enthusiasm to pastel painting(thus all the shows I entered last year), but that kind of reckless abandonment is certainly not required succeed with the PSA!

I hope this discussion helps.

Phil

artsygala
12-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Just to clarify, the PSA only requires a resume for the Associate Member form. The application for Signature does not require a resume.

Phil

I think the PSA must have changed their membership application since you filled one out, Phil. The form I downloaded from here (http://pastelsocietyofamerica.org/JOIN.HTM) wants 3 slides (to show you are not a "one-painting wonder', a resume and a check for $10. The jurors then let you know what status you have earned, associate or signature.

I guess I just don't see the value of the resume. Some unscrupulous applicant could list loads of workshops and exhibitions and say they won awards, but unless the PSA,or any art association, has the staff to check resumes for veracity, requiring a resume is pointless. If background checks ARE done on applicants, I'm impressed!

Phil Bates
12-11-2009, 01:43 PM
I think the PSA must have changed their membership application since you filled one out, Phil. The form I downloaded from here (http://pastelsocietyofamerica.org/JOIN.HTM) wants 3 slides (to show you are not a "one-painting wonder', a resume and a check for $10. The jurors then let you know what status you have earned, associate or signature.

Boy, my communication skills are lacking lately. I didn't mean to imply that the Associate Membership form only requires a resume. It's just the only one of the two that requires a resume. In that respect I was trying to take the pressure off.

Sorry about the confusion. :)

Phil

Kathryn Wilson
12-11-2009, 02:18 PM
Okay, define consistency of production. Same subject, same style, consistent in quality? I'm assuming the quality would be the same across all three, but what if you tend to do landscapes, still life, and portraits? Don't mix them up?

artsygala
12-11-2009, 02:20 PM
Your experienced input in this discussion is appreciated.

Thanks, Phil.

Deborah Secor
12-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Well, I'm going to add to the mix a bit here, and I preface what I'm saying here by acknowledging that I have great respect for the honor of receiving PSA status. However, I've never applied and am not PSA. For me it seemed extraneous. I was busy showing, selling, winning prizes, etc, and it just never seemed necessary. I can see that it gives credibility to pastelists, and I think if it helps boost your confidence level it's a very good thing to do.

There's no denying that an impressive resume can be helpful to an artist, but in all the years I've shown and sold work, I don't think the lack of PSA status has hurt me either. Generally speaking, I think credibility comes from steadily creating and selling excellent work, having your work represented by good galleries, and maintaining a predictable presence in the marketplace.

In the past I've been assured that the lack of an impressive resume isn't a heavy factor in receiving PSA signature status, and that they emphasize the quality of the work over that. I hope that's still true.

That said, I've had two paintings accepted to PSA shows, and if I ever enter and am accepted again I'll earn signature membership (assuming the rules are the same.) I probably wouldn't turn it down but I can't say for sure. For now I'm quite content with what is, and I guess that counts most to me.

Deborah

Deborah Secor
12-11-2009, 02:25 PM
Okay, define consistency of production. Same subject, same style, consistent in quality? I'm assuming the quality would be the same across all three, but what if you tend to do landscapes, still life, and portraits? Don't mix them up?

Kat, show three paintings that look like they should hang on the same wall together. Each should be the best you're capable of doing. That's what I heard from someone who was on the selection committee for PSA a few years ago, so I think it's sound advice.

Deborah

artsygala
12-11-2009, 02:28 PM
Okay, define consistency of production. Same subject, same style, consistent in quality? I'm assuming the quality would be the same across all three, but what if you tend to do landscapes, still life, and portraits? Don't mix them up?

I don't know about you, but I've cranked out a few duds between my flashes of artistic brilliance!:D

AliciaS
12-11-2009, 02:53 PM
I was an Associate Member for a couple of years, but I found the annual fee to expensive for what you got. Signature membership may help some artists.
But I have not renewed my ASSociate membership and I have decided to not apply for signature. If I get in the New York show next year it will be my 3rd time therefore giving me signature status,... Not sure if that really will change anything....A self taught artist such as myself, can become an Associate member and even Signature........but I personally think you can do just fine in your career without it.
There are some wonderful artists out there without any labels......or status signatures.....

sketchZ1ol
12-11-2009, 04:34 PM
hello. Spinning your wheels a bit? lol.
It sounds like you've come up against that dilemma of painting, selling, 'credibility', and your overall circumstances- which you need not further elaborate here.
PSA has become a banner/standard in the USA, largely through the eforts of Flora Giffuni ( God welcome her soul ), and many other notable artists whose work declared Pastel as painting without further argument. It is what it truly is.
So; you are what you do, where you're at. You'll know, in your own heart, if and when to 'go after' PSA. In the meantime, what about your neighborhood , local art, regional activity, your art as an opportunity to connect/contribute without an ' in your face ' attitude?
My humbly opinionated opinion. :) E

Colorix
12-11-2009, 04:35 PM
Okay, define consistency of production. Same subject, same style, consistent in quality? I'm assuming the quality would be the same across all three, but what if you tend to do landscapes, still life, and portraits? Don't mix them up?

My Reply to Kathryn, it is not about PSA, so it is actually off topic, but as the moderator asked... :) (Unashamedly blaming it all on her, yep!)

It is fiendishly difficult, to figure out a fair system. Kathryn, when I said that, I was thinking of high quality, over some time. Yes we all fail now and then, probably also the Sig members of PSA, but do we put the failures in exhibitions? No, we put the best we have, just as we do when applying for membership. So I'd say, is the average quality high enough? Usually, when we develop and get better, a painting now and then glimmers with something extra, at least a part of a painting does, but we can't make that happen every time, so the quality isn't consistent. But 6 months from now, it may well have become the 'normal' level.

But if quality swings widly, and an artists has only 3 brilliant paintings regardless of subject, and the rest is far from that, then it would be wise to investigate why it is so.

I tell you, it is daunting to try to look at it from the other side. What criteria to use? What makes sense?

Charlie

Kathryn Wilson
12-11-2009, 04:57 PM
I don't know about you, but I've cranked out a few duds between my flashes of artistic brilliance!:D

Yep, looking at a spectacular dud on my easel right now!

I've often thought of applying to PSA, but I feel I am still inconsistent as to style, color palette, and subject matter. I am all over the place, experimenting and exploring this and that, so I don't feel I can even put 3 paintings together that "look good on the wall together." 2, maybe, not 3

wvdan44
12-11-2009, 04:59 PM
This is an excellent thread. Very informative, and I think it has pulled out some deep thinking which probably touches all of us in regard to our hopes, fears, and how we regard our own work.

sketchZ1ol
12-11-2009, 05:07 PM
hello. I have presented ' failures ' in competitions, that is to say, they did not win awards!, but at the time, I thought it was my best effort. And so it goes.
Again, I say, what you are's where you're at. When you step back and look at yourself, it's about getting everybody elses noise out of your head - could take a moment, a day, a year; it's your time, for you, and your painting. Take all the time you need; it's a fair question. :) E

artsygala
12-11-2009, 09:10 PM
This is an excellent thread. Very informative, and I think it has pulled out some deep thinking which probably touches all of us in regard to our hopes, fears, and how we regard our own work.

I don't think I'm speaking for myself when I say one of reasons a lot of us make art is for other people to see it and hopefully bask in some fleeting praise. We expose ourselves knowing that we might be on the receiving end of ego-crushing rejection. Thick skin is necessary, but hard to grow!

If I am going to subject myself to that, I want to know that the rejection is based purely on my talent (or lack of it), not because I didn't study with some big name artist or garner a sufficient number of ribbons.

That is why I appreciated Deborah's post saying that she thinks the PSA puts artistic quality way above the resume. I hope she is right.

Phil Bates
12-11-2009, 09:39 PM
Regarding resume vs judging selected paintings: If the resume shows consistent pattern of being juried into shows and gaining awards, isn't that an indication of quality? It seems that over time cream rises to the top. I don't see a problem with either way of judging, because it seems that both speak to quality.

When you think about it, a panel judging 3 paintings could actually be less accurate than the input of many judges over time.

I'll concede the point that not everyone can afford to enter lots of shows, but I wouldn't count it out as in indication of quality.

(just call me trouble!) ;)

Phil

Potoma
12-11-2009, 10:28 PM
I should look up the benefits of regular vs. signature PSA membership to see what the differences are and what favors are afforded to signature members.

Locally (and please don't shoot me), what I really dislike are "all member" shows that essentially are all juried in signature members and not representative of the membership in the least. That is a disincentive for me to worry about applying for the show or the signature membership.

Charlie, as you undertake this process, I really don't think fancier or more complicated is better. I sincerely wish passionate pastelists merely had a place together without hierarchy. Oh yeah - it's called Pastel Talk!

artsygala
12-12-2009, 03:32 AM
(just call me trouble!) ;)
Phil

No trouble at all. You have some good points.

It is enlightening to read the different viewpoints voiced here.

While we may not see the need to be members, all pastel artists benefit from the pastel societies efforts to push the pastel medium from the shadows into the artworld spotlight. It wasn't long ago that the word "pastel" meant pink, light blue and lavender to many people.

Colorix
12-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Agree, Gillian, Bonnie.

WC Pastel forums are such a great place it can't be duplicated. The Pastel Guild of Europe sends new members here, for example.

Promoting pastel as a medium and pastel paintings as fine art is another thing, also involving educating the general public.

So it is great that both exist!

Charlie

Colorix
12-12-2009, 08:13 AM
Phil, very good points!

Regarding resume vs judging selected paintings: If the resume shows consistent pattern of being juried into shows and gaining awards, isn't that an indication of quality? (...)

When you think about it, a panel judging 3 paintings could actually be less accurate than the input of many judges over time.
Phil

Comparing to shows and contests: have we not all disagreed with choices for awards? I often find that I like the honorarys more than the winners, just to use myself as an example. The point being -- various juries will select different kinds of works, so one rejection from one show or society doesn't reflect on the quality of work (quite often it reflects if one's style is similar to the judges...).

And who are the judges/jurors? They are the signature members, they are often expected or invited to jury in their own society, and as guest jurors in other societies. Therefore, they need to be able to do that.

Also, it is a question of prestige. The PSA sets a very high standard. But it would surprise me if it isn't the quality of the artwork that is *the* criteria.

mfapastel
12-12-2009, 09:44 AM
First let me say that I love your statement on your website!
To me, achieving signature status in the PSWC shows that you are producing quality work on a consistant basis. If its anything like PSNM, you obtain that status by your work being juried into their shows, usually over a number of years, and/or winning prizes. If you put 3 pieces of high quality consistant work in front of those who decide at PSA, I would think you would be accepted regardless of your resume, at least that's what I prefer to believe. Hmm... I think applying to PSA was on my to-do list for this year... my how time flies. Dan

sketchZ1ol
12-12-2009, 03:47 PM
hello. Dan; just the right meld of talent, timing, and tact. Bravo! :thumbsup: E

allydoodle
12-14-2009, 10:55 AM
I was an Associate Member for a couple of years, but I found the annual fee to expensive for what you got. Signature membership may help some artists.
But I have not renewed my ASSociate membership and I have decided to not apply for signature. If I get in the New York show next year it will be my 3rd time therefore giving me signature status,... Not sure if that really will change anything....A self taught artist such as myself, can become an Associate member and even Signature........but I personally think you can do just fine in your career without it.
There are some wonderful artists out there without any labels......or status signatures.....

Hmmm, this has me thinking.....

Over the past 15 years (give or take, I have to look at my records), I have been accepted three times into the annual PSA Show which is held every September. Each time it was quite an exciting feeling! If the above statement is true, would I have been automatically accepted as a signature member after the third time, or would I still have to apply for membership, to at least let them know I am interested?

Obviously, as you can see by this question, I am not a signature member, but would certainly accept it if I was entitled to it based on my past accomplishments with the PSA. I'd love to know the answer to this, if anyone has a clue.

Kathryn Wilson
12-14-2009, 11:04 AM
Chris - it looks like you are!

Straight off the PSA website under Membership:

They have the opportunity to become Master Pastelist after winning prizes at three annual shows and are eligible for an expanded listing on the PSA website, with samples of their work displayed.

PeggyB
12-14-2009, 01:25 PM
Chris - it looks like you are!

Straight off the PSA website under Membership:

They have the opportunity to become Master Pastelist after winning prizes at three annual shows and are eligible for an expanded listing on the PSA website, with samples of their work displayed.

Kat, Master Pastelist is not the same as Signature. I"m not up on the lastest various signature requirements, but the last I knew one had to apply and pay all fees associated with whatever category of membership one is interested in to become a member of PSA. At one time, getting acceptanced into 3 PSA shows was extremely helpful, but not a guarantee of signature acceptance either.

I think anyone interested in joining this most presteigious organization should go to their website and read for themselves exactly what is required for membership in the various catagories... then there will be no mistakes when you do apply. My advise to anyone who's asked me in the past has been - "What do you have to loose by applying? Nothing ventured nothing gained. Just be certain the slides you submit are not only of your best work, but also the most professional quility slides you can get. A poor representation of excellent artwork will not work in your favor."

Peggy

Well I just went to the PSA site, and there seems to have been some changes. There is nothing mentioned about signature or associate membership being automatic or even a consideration if you've been in 3 of their shows. However, I think including that info in your resume certainly won't hurt your chances.
I also saw that initial application is done differently now. There's a $10 jury fee, nonrefundable. If you are selected an associate the billing to you is $50 annually plus a one time initiation fee of $100, and signature acceptance is $60 plus the $100. At one time, the $100 initiation fee was only if you were accepted as a signature member, and now it is for either catagory. Although initially this seems like an expensive society to join, for some people it has opened gallery doors who would otherwise have been denied representation at some very impressive galleries. I know that from having been told so by those artists who've done this. For many who've already made their mark, it may not be necessary.

Deborah Secor
12-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Peggy's right. I was confused on the Master Pastelist designation, too, and had it clarified for me when I mistakenly claimed that status for an artist who hadn't won three prizes in an article I wrote. :o Once you're a full Signature Member, if you win three prizes at PSA shows you earn the further designation of Master Pastelist. Beyond that they have Hall of Fame Honorees, chosen yearly--a very exclusive group, most recently including Sally Strand and Doug Dawson.

Years ago having work accepted into three of the yearly PSA shows was enough to earn Signature Member status, but you always had to apply for it and pay the fees, etc, as Peggy already stated. I certainly think you should apply, Chris. :)

And, by the way, you must maintain membership yearly and pay all the fees to qualify as a Signature Member. I talked to a "famous artist" once who had earned many, many signature honors at various societies, not just PSA, and he had decided to drop all of his memberships and just paint. He said it was too expensive, there wasn't enough reason to be involved any more, and the payback just wasn't enough at that advanced stage of his career. Interesting perspective.

Deborah

Kathryn Wilson
12-14-2009, 04:09 PM
Years ago having work accepted into three of the yearly PSA shows was enough to earn Signature Member status,

That's what I thought was talking about ... I was told that by a PSA member who was encouraging me to enter the shows to attain Signature status.

Deborah Secor
12-14-2009, 06:08 PM
I sent off a query and just received this, which I consider to be very encouraging!

The Pastel Society of America membership jury's decision to award PSA signature status is based entirely upon the the quality of the three paintings submitted. The jury does not know the name of the applicant nor does the jury consider an applicant's resume. The three works should be of equal consistent outstanding quality. Two exceptional works accompanied by one mediocre work or one exceptional work accompanied by two weak works will disqualify the applicant for signature status.

Sincerely,
Jimmy Wright, Treasurer, PSA

So there you go! Get painting, kids. It's the work that counts.

Deborah

Colorix
12-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Deborah, *thank you*!!! Perfect! I really like that, it should be on the *quality of the work*!

Charlie

Kathryn Wilson
12-14-2009, 06:32 PM
cool!

allydoodle
12-14-2009, 09:25 PM
Deborah,

Thanks so much for your investigations! I thought I remembered they used to accept you as a signature member after three accepted entries into their annual show, but somehow I think they stopped it by the time my third painting was accepted. It is good to know though, that they don't even know your name when judging - it is the quality of the work that counts. Maybe if I feel brave, I will apply.

Thanks again!

AliciaS
12-15-2009, 11:04 AM
"And, by the way, you must maintain membership yearly and pay all the fees to qualify as a Signature Member. I talked to a "famous artist" once who had earned many, many signature honors at various societies, not just PSA, and he had decided to drop all of his memberships and just paint. He said it was too expensive, there wasn't enough reason to be involved any more, and the payback just wasn't enough at that advanced stage of his career. Interesting perspective. "
That is interesting indeed Deborah:thumbsup:

bnoonan
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
A little late but when I was first interested in joining the PSA I was told that nudes were not allowed in shows. I have no idea if that is still the case but it seemed close minded to me so I've joined other Pastel Societies that I know don't have this preclusion. It always bothered me... What is more beautiful than the human form?

I'm always impressed by friends that have the PSA status and I respect them. It's just a path I personally haven't chosen to go.

One of the reasons I personally choose to join local shows is that I can then participate and volunteer and actually meet the local artists in my community. Affordability for shipping to/from shows is also a feature.

Some day I may apply... but for now I'm happy to just paint....

Great thread! Barb

Deborah Secor
12-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Barb, I guess if the group doesn't accept the work you do, that's a pretty good reason not to apply for membership! I have no idea what they exclude over at PSA, but I know if they didn't accept landscapes I wouldn't apply either...

And just to add a bit more, I know some have thought, mistakenly, that when someone received Signature Membership status it was theirs for life, but you must remain an active member to have the right to use the designation after your name. It's the same with PSA, PSWC, PSNM, etc., and certainly makes sense. If you aren't interested in being a part of the group, why would you value the honor of using the designation?

It seems that there are some recent revisions over at the PSA regarding how one becomes a Signature Member. As I understand it there are now two possibilities:
1) To submit an application and three slides to the jury, or
2) to have your paintings shown in three of the PSA shows, with this addition: "Signature Artist status will be conferred upon any artist who is accepted into three (3) PSA Annual Exhibitions and who has been a dues-paying member for every year following his or her first Annual Exhibition acceptance. It shall be the artistís responsibility to notify PSA and provide the necessary verification."

Because the paintings were selected from among some 1,000 entries and juried for the show by the entire PSA Board, they decided it was equal to having three paintings viewed and selected for Signature status. But they want you to be an active Associate Member to accrue that honor. There is still some discussion as to whether that's going to be retroactive, so stay tuned.

And I've never met Jimmy Wright personally, but I really like his attitude! He pointed out that any judgment is only as good as the jury, and reminded me that the one thing artists can't control is rejection. "Learning to handle rejection is an important step in an artist's development of a professional career. No one is more boring than an artist with a big head and a sense of entitlement." I sure can't disagree with that! :wink2: (I think I'd really like this guy.)

So, I hope that helps expand our knowledge and understanding... And thanks to Jimmy and the PSA Secretary, Mary Hargrave, for the information.

Deborah

artsygala
12-15-2009, 06:54 PM
The Pastel Society of America membership jury's decision to award PSA signature status is based entirely upon the the quality of the three paintings submitted. The jury does not know the name of the applicant nor does the jury consider an applicant's resume. The three works should be of equal consistent outstanding quality. Two exceptional works accompanied by one mediocre work or one exceptional work accompanied by two weak works will disqualify the applicant for signature status.

Sincerely,
Jimmy Wright, Treasurer, PSA

Excellent. That is what I was hoping to hear.

Now I have that gnawing indecision as to what to do. I guess submitting the 3 pieces and $10 isn't a big deal. Why not at least try, right?

Potoma
12-15-2009, 07:02 PM
Too bad it's not as easy as shooting off an email with attachments or sending in an application. I don't have slides of my works! I have jpegs!

Where might anyone have their slides made? Do the slides come ready to go or is a light box and silver tape needed?

Deborah Secor
12-15-2009, 07:48 PM
Bonnie, you can send high-res digitals to www.gammatech.com and they'll make 35-mm slides for you for $2.50 each. What you send is what you see in the slide, black border included if the image isn't standard format. Go to http://www.gammatech.com/html/recording35.shtml for some pix and lots of info. They're excellent! Fast, accurate and dependable.

Deborah

PeggyB
12-15-2009, 08:01 PM
Another great slide service on line is http://www.iprintfromhome.com they too produce excellent 35mm slides from your digital images. It is very easy to download your images to the computer and then send them off to iprintfromhome. Here are their prices and some additional ifo from the website:

A 35mm slide from a digital file is $2.49. Additional Digital Originals, from the same image, made at the same time, are only $1.25 each.

We use Kodak Ektachrome Professional Slide Film and plain white plastic slide mounts to produce our 35mm Slides.

Orders placed for 35mm Slides by 6am EST Monday thru Saturday are shipped the same day.

They are located in New York state, and even though I live on the west coast, I receive the slides quickly. I've also used their print services, and been very happy with the results.
If you give the name of the person who recommended you to them, that person gets a credit for the next time they place an order. This is one way you can suggest the service to your friends, and get an award in return from iprintfromhome. :-)

Peggy

Potoma
12-15-2009, 09:03 PM
Thank you so much, Deborah and Peggy.

Is the next thread entitled, "Which three of these should I choose?"

ha

Deborah Secor
12-16-2009, 02:12 PM
Ah, thanks, Peggy. I remembered that you had another outfit but couldn't think what it was. (And you might as well mention PEGGY to them!) Good to know, at least until the PSA goes digital. (Someone whisper ZAPPlication.org to them...) However, for now I agree that the "old ways" are certainly tried and true. When I look at a slide I know what they're seeing for certain, and the slides I've ordered are quick and easy to order, inexpensive and reliable, so there's no reason not to get them.

Deciding what to enter is always the toughest, Bonnie. :wink2:

Deborah

PeggyB
12-17-2009, 01:01 AM
ARGH! Deborah you would mention going digital... I hate that method of jurying or judging. So much depends upon the way every single monitor is calibrated to have accurate color and detailed definition to see the work as it really is intended to look. I've seen images on one computer look just great and as it should, but on another computer it is so poorly represented that even the composition is unclear - and these two computers are in my own house! With slides the artist has the responsibilty of sending a professional quality product, but with digital all that goes out the door if the person jurying or judging the work doesn't have the right controls or quality equipment.

The last show I saw that was both juried and judged via digital images was a mixed bag of quality, and I know there was enough work submitted by some really good painters to have been a better show if it had been juried by slides and judged from the original work. The show sponsors said they'd never accept having awards judged by digital again (it had been the juror/judge's insistance that was it done this time), and are reluctent to have the jurying via digital as well.

Peggy
PS -thanks for mentioning my name concerning Iprintfromhome's point rewards. Paula Ford also uses iprintfromhome, and could use the points too. :-) I know you also get good quality from your source, but having one on the east coast to mention for those east of the Mississippi may be more helpful for those who live there. I continue to use them because they are the source I first heard about, and am satisfied with their work and service.

Potoma
12-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Deborah,
I guess I have a cheat. In September when I was in Richard McKinley's workshop, he saw pictures from my portfolio. He's such a positive person, a feel good instructor. On a few of my photos, he exclaimed, "This is beautiful!"

I will probably go with them if I do it!

Deborah Secor
12-17-2009, 12:16 PM
Peggy, no real argument from me, but you and I both know that in time that's all going to change. No rush. Slides work, no doubt about it, as I mentioned. :)

Bonnie, you do have a leg up there! :D

Deborah

Colorix
12-17-2009, 12:31 PM
When the projectors give out... seems no-one makes new ones.

Going digital is probably unstoppable, but I guess there'll be two levels of jurying: online, and then when paintings are physically in before show.

Mstechart
12-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Gillian -- you said this so well! I'm self taught too and just dream about being a 'real artist' -- just dream.

Dougwas
12-17-2009, 07:00 PM
If you send a digital image to a company to get a slide made, how do you know it will look like the image on your monitor, and not their monitor? I don't know if I worded that properly, but a digital image will will differ from monitor to monitor, so what will stop this from happening when you send the image to them? You will get a slide of what they think the painting looks like, won't you?

Doug :confused:

Deborah Secor
12-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Doug, if you go to http://www.gammatech.com/html/recording35.shtml there are some ideas for you. Look under color balance, near the bottom. I've worked with Charlie Dodge and he will do all he can to make the color accurate, but it always depends on your digital shot. Then you might go over to the Photography Forum and ask them!

However, it might be best to have a PROFESSIONAL shoot the work you plan to enter into any competition as stiff as the PSA.

Deborah

artsygala
12-18-2009, 12:33 AM
I was wondering if one variable that could be eliminated (the computer) is if we mailed in those little SD cards straight from the camera. A 64 MB card, which can hold many images, costs $2.00 (from Amazon), which is the same price (approximately) as having a single slide made.

This doesn't prevent anyone manipulating the image using Photoshop, however. That evaluation will have to be made by the jurors upon receiving the actual artwork.

The file size could be huge if the camera isn't set appropriately, but there are software programs that can re-size huge files, like those at Wet Canvas!. It was pointed out by Charlie that those slide projectors will be ancient pretty soon, so it might behoove the PSA and other art associations that still insist on slides to come up with strict digital guidelines.

Colorix
12-18-2009, 11:49 AM
Gillian, the tricky thing is that you'll never know, unless you see the actual artwork. But, as contests take on faith (and undersigned declaration) that a painting is wholly the artist's own and not made in class or with a tutor etc, then I guess one must also take it on faith that an image isn't manipulated to look better than the original. If it is, it will come out, sooner or later, and any awards would be (whats a fancy word for:) taken back.

Gillian, your idea with a camera memory card is great! It would have to be the kind that can be read by a computer, and not need one of those stations. (But maybe that's standard, and I'm ignorant.)

Love this thread! So much good stuff in it!

Charlie

Dougwas
12-19-2009, 02:03 AM
However, it might be best to have a PROFESSIONAL shoot the work you plan to enter into any competition as stiff as the PSA.

Deborah

LOL I don't think I'll every have to worry about that arising, Deborah. But, one never knows.:rolleyes:

Doug