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View Full Version : Liquitex tips, from their rep


Foxyheart2002
12-03-2009, 12:20 AM
I was confused about a Liquitex product, so I called them today. I have been using Matte Medium for gluing my linen for canvases. However yesterday when I went to get more, the list on the bottle of things it can do did not mention gluing or adhesion. So before using the wrong product, I felt I needed to talk to them. The rep who called me back was a hoot! Very pleasant to talk to and knew exactly what I was talking about. If you use Matte Medium for adhesion, it is still the same product. It seems their advertising/marketing department felt it was not necessary to list it on the bottle anymore. Boy, did we have lots to say about that little item!

Anyway, some tips:

If you use masonite for support......he recommended using Killz (water based) for the sealer. Even though the oil bleeding through and discoloring the acrylics is not a problem like it was years ago, he suggested sealing it with Killz anyway. Use a layer over the hardboard/masonite, then gesso over.

If you find a canvas is too 'toothy' you can smooth it out by using the Matte Medium. Spread it on with a flat utensil such as a ruler to put the medium into the pits in the canvas. He said this is a much better method than trying to sand it down. After the medium, use your gesso. Use only Matte Medium (not glosss) as it will be more accepting of the gesso.

OkeeKat
12-03-2009, 01:21 AM
THANKS Sue!

*dee*
12-03-2009, 04:56 AM
Oh, great tips!

I never would have thought about using medium (matte or otherwise) to fill in the "holes" in canvas!!!!

Roun2it
12-03-2009, 05:28 AM
Thanks for the info .....

Having read the above I have looked for Kilz in the UK but it doesn't seem to be available all references to it on the net are US based. So if you'd like another excuse to speak to your fun guy again ask him what the recommended primer in the UK would be ........ :thumbsup:

Einion
12-03-2009, 07:39 AM
If you use masonite for support......he recommended using Killz (water based) for the sealer. Even though the oil bleeding through and discoloring the acrylics is not a problem like it was years ago, he suggested sealing it with Killz anyway. Use a layer over the hardboard/masonite, then gesso over.
Technical point: it isn't just oil that's a potential issue for SID, it is also water-soluble components in the wood pulp.

As regards the best size for board materials, Golden recommend one of their mediums and other people think shellac is a good choice but personally I think that thinned polyurethane varnish is the way to go.

Einion

Lady Carol
12-03-2009, 09:25 AM
good tips. Thank you for sharing.

purplepansey
12-03-2009, 01:47 PM
Good tips and I like the idea of Kilz over the masonite first, then gesso.

Chrisp47
12-05-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm with Carol, thanks ever so much for passing the info along to us. WC is such a great source for a beginning artist like myself.

Nilesh
12-05-2009, 05:31 PM
I was confused about a Liquitex product, so I called them today. I have been using Matte Medium for gluing my linen for canvases. However yesterday when I went to get more, the list on the bottle of things it can do did not mention gluing or adhesion. So before using the wrong product, I felt I needed to talk to them. The rep who called me back was a hoot! Very pleasant to talk to and knew exactly what I was talking about. If you use Matte Medium for adhesion, it is still the same product. It seems their advertising/marketing department felt it was not necessary to list it on the bottle anymore. Boy, did we have lots to say about that little item!

Anyway, some tips:

If you use masonite for support......he recommended using Killz (water based) for the sealer. Even though the oil bleeding through and discoloring the acrylics is not a problem like it was years ago, he suggested sealing it with Killz anyway. Use a layer over the hardboard/masonite, then gesso over.

If you find a canvas is too 'toothy' you can smooth it out by using the Matte Medium. Spread it on with a flat utensil such as a ruler to put the medium into the pits in the canvas. He said this is a much better method than trying to sand it down. After the medium, use your gesso. Use only Matte Medium (not glosss) as it will be more accepting of the gesso.

Thank you for sharing this.

There is another product that may be better than the water-based KILZ: Zinsser H2Oil-Base (a water-based alkyd). I believe the water-based KILZ (according to the company's own product information) does not form as effective a seal as the oil-based version. I believe it is more like typical acrylics in this regard. It is likely that it does not seal as well as the Zinsser product. http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductId=13

Shellac forms an excellent seal, but there are doubts about its longevity. It is a natural product, and is said to discolor, embrittle, and deteriorate even when underneath layers of paint. It looked like a good choice to me for a time; but the more I have found out about it, the more questionable the choice seems to be, if serious longevity or archivalness is important.

Polyurethanes were also high on my list; but there seem to be concerns or potential problems with them as well, if archivalness is important. They apparently also vary quite a bit depending on manufacturer.

The safest choice seems to be GAC 100 or equivalent. This forms a tighter, less permeable film than most other acrylics. It is harder than most acrylics, and better as a sealant. Golden have tested various acrylics and this one is the best in their product line for this purpose. One can also have a higher degree of confidence in its archivalness.

Other companies may have similar products. I believe Nova Color have a hard acrylic medium. One could try it (or others) and compare (with GAC 100), and perhaps examine the surface and porosity under sufficient magnification (inexpensive but quite functional microscopes are available these days -- WM carries them around Xmas time). It would also be interesting to do (or to see the results of) empirical tests on the relative effectiveness of the seals.

Another reason to seal the hardboard is that the lignins (which are plentiful in all hardboards) react with oxygen. A tighter seal will probably slow the reactions.


***
I spoke with Golden Tech Support about their recommendation of (oil-based) KILZ. Why use it instead of GAC 100? -- this was my question. The answer was that GAC 100 can become too expensive for this application, for some artists. The KILZ is more economical.

All of these sorts of commercial primer-sealers are used primarily for house painting. They are not designed as archival artists' materials.

I have to admit that I cannot have full confidence in them. Any of them. I have no doubt that some are excellent for house painting purposes. And some of them *may* be archival. But who knows for sure? If something lasts twenty or fifty years, that's (for the most part) great in the construction industry. Often this is not the case in fine art, though (depending on the person's standards...).

House paints are usually not considered a good choice for fine art (though some artists have used them, with mixed results). The paint films often do not have the integrity or longevity of artist grade acrylic paints.

Why is it assumed to be different with these primer-sealers? As far as one can tell, there is little evidence that they are up to the standards of artist-grade products.

Even the alkyds (which inspire more confidence than most of the others) may not be up to the standards of artist-grade alkyd paints and mediums.

So -- to make a long story short -- after many meanderings and much research and reflection, and looking over the field of products, I would have to say that the soundest choice (unless and until further solid evidence is presented) is probably GAC 100 and similarly effective artist-grade acrylic sealers.

I believe this is also Golden's position.

The Liquitex rep may or may not have gone through all these points, and (like Golden) may be making the recommendation of KILZ (though Golden recommend the oil-based version, which is different) knowing that it will probably work conveniently for most people and in most cases (in the short or medium term at least), and be more economical -- but also realizing that there are probably better, if more expensive, alternatives.