Empty Paint Tubes

[Doug Hoppes]

Hi all,

I would like to pre-mix a lot of my greys, but do not have a way to store them for a long period of time (over several months). I was talking to someone about using empty paint tubes. Will this work? Theoretically, I should be able to mix 5 different levels of grey (a lot of them) and then fill the tubes so that I can use it for a long time.

Has anybody tried this?

Doug

[sidbledsoe]

Jim (gunzorro) does this:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7566474&postcount=25
He doesn't frequent the WMO channel so you may want to PM him if you have questions or post in the regular oils also.

[couturej]

Hi Doug! I was wondering the same thing. I just completed my first underpainting with different values of Raw Umber, Ultramarine Blue and White. I found it took a lot of time to hit the rite values. I did find this Blog on tubing paint that I found extremely useful and detailed: http://underpaintings.blogspot.com/2009/01/tubing-paint.html

[DAK723]

Empty paint tubes can be purchased at some art stores. Here's some at Dick Blick's:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/richeson-empty-paint-tubes/

Don

[greywolf-art]

Hi Doug! I was wondering the same thing. I just completed my first underpainting with different values of Raw Umber, Ultramarine Blue and White. I found it took a lot of time to hit the rite values. I did find this Blog on tubing paint that I found extremely useful and detailed: http://underpaintings.blogspot.com/2009/01/tubing-paint.html

just a suggestion, but for your underpainting cobalt blue would be a better choice as cobalt is a very good fast drying catalyst, wheras ultramarine is only a medium speed drier at best.

[couturej]

Thank you greywolf-art for the warning. I've been using the fast drying medium and waiting several days to let dry. I only use non-toxic pigements so the cobalt won't work for me. Thanks for the suggestion.

[sidbledsoe]

I wouldn't worry, the raw umber will provide the drying catalyst when mixed with ultramarine, some use raw umber and ivory black for instance and ivory is one of the slowest driers. When used in conjunction with the umber it is an excellent underpainting combo, add a fast drying medium and you are fine.

[Shirl Parker]

Check out these "Buddy Cups" in the following link. They are frequently available at Michael's also.

http://www.houstonart.com/StorageContainers.asp

I keep my acrylic paint in these and it stays fresh for a long, long time.

[couturej]

Thank you Sid for the confirmation!

I think I'll be buying some of those tubes that Don pointed out from Dick Blick next time a place an order.

Shirl, I wonder how well it would work for oils. Reading the process for tubing and making sure no air bubbles exist would lead me to believe that the Buddy Cups may not work as well for oils. It certainly looks like a simpler solution.

[greywolf-art]

I wouldn't worry, the raw umber will provide the drying catalyst when mixed with ultramarine, some use raw umber and ivory black for instance and ivory is one of the slowest driers. When used in conjunction with the umber it is an excellent underpainting combo, add a fast drying medium and you are fine.

Good point - thats why I always reccomend Raw umber as an underpainting colour - because of its siccative properties (or catalytic if you prefer), I just prefer to mix it with other fast drying pigments rather than use it to speed up slower drying ones, I've just recently found out that Davys grey is a good fast drying paint too - but its not available in artisan paints or Holbein aqua duo'a as far as I can tell :(

[dcorc]

If you want to make up significant quantities of paint, then for anything in excess of about 10ml, I'd suggest tubes are the way to go.

A couple of practical points:

1. most tubes have insides coated with a lacquer designed to stop the paint from coming into contact with the metal of the walls of the tube - its important for lomg-term storage that this lacquer coat is not scratched or damaged, so reject any empty tubes which are crumpled, and when introducing the paint, be gentle and take your time, and avoid scratching the inside walls with your palette-knife.
2. the suggestion to add a few drops of oil on top of the paint, so as to squeeze out the oil rather than paint, is a good one - it's important to take your time when putting paint into the tube, and tap down after each addition to avoid having any air-bubbles in the tube. Done carefully, commercial paint you've re-tubed-up yourself should remain in perfect condition for years (if you make your own paint, other factors come in, regarding additives to enhance shelf-life - but I've made and tubed my own traditional oils with just oil, pigment, and a little beeswax, which are fine several years later).

For the cups that Shirl suggested, I'd add a few drops of oil on top of the paint to exclude as much air as possible, and then remove it before use.


Dave

[karenlee]

I have a few empty paint tubes I got from Dick Blick. Open empy tubes are fragile things; they arrived disappointingly dented. I tried to push the dents out by hand; I didn't know that an interior scratch would compromise the effectiveness of the tube.
If you order these, give clear instructions to pack them very carefully so they won't be dented in shipping. Best of luck.
-Karen

[JamieWG]

I buy my empty tubes from Jerrys or ASW in boxes of 48 tubes. They are packed really well in the cases and arrive dent-free. I like using the smaller tubes (22ml) for my pochade boxes and travel, and the larger ones for my studio sets. If a case is too many for you, perhaps you could find a couple of artists to split the case with you. If you use a sale coupon, you should be able to get them for about 50 cents a tube.

Doing the actual tubing is pretty easy. Keep tapping the paint down. Be sure all the air is out of the end of the tube and use a tube wringer to the end. Then I roll tightly, crimping with a canvas pliers to make the folds on the end of the tube.

If you fold several layers of paper towel over the tube end before using the tube wringer, you'll be able to avoid a lot of mess! It's really not hard. I did about 20 tubes in a day with one hand and arm in a cast a couple of weeks ago, so even a caveman should be able to do it. ;)

Jamie

[couturej]

The buddy cups or something similar with linseed oil on top sounds like the perfect solution for me. At some point I may find the need for more long term solutions and may need to try the tubing. Thank you Shirl for the great suggestion and Dave for the addition of adding the linseed oil. All the other advice and warnings regarding tubing were great and will be very helpful if I ever go that route.

Doug, I'll let you know how it goes once I try it. :)

[dcorc]

Janet, thinking about it, WM-safflower (W&N do in their Artisan range) would probably be an even better choice to top up cups with, as it's slower-drying.


Dave

[greywolf-art]

Don't know why I didn't think of this before but I use these Dippers (http://www.heatoncooper.co.uk/eshop1/product.php?xProd=230&jssCart=2973186d16ddce3427f78c7d0b9bc0b0) for my mediums because they are completely airtight and therefore keep any mixed mediums fresh for weeks - they should work just as well for paint mixes too and could be clipped to the side of your pallette when you are using them.

these are from a British supplier but I'm sure they could be sourced just as easily in America, and you wouldn't have to worry about using oil to seal the lids either :)

In fact I'm seriously considering stocking up on a few more to keep my favourite mixes in too :clap:

[couturej]

Thanks Dave I'll see if I can find some. :)

Great idea greaywolf-art. I use those also for my medium. :)

[Doug Hoppes]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I'm definitely going to try out those empty tubes for my greys!

[kbaxterpackwood]

http://underpaintings.blogspot.com/2009/01/tubing-paint.html

thank you for the link I've been using old peanut butter jars, this method would make storage a lot easier.

Kimberly

[kbaxterpackwood]

just a suggestion, but for your underpainting cobalt blue would be a better choice as cobalt is a very good fast drying catalyst, wheras ultramarine is only a medium speed drier at best.

Is there a list of dry times/averages for WMO's? I've taken up oil painting again, after a 15 year hiatus due to the odor of traditional oil painting.

Kimberly

[couturej]

Hi Kimberly! This is the information that I found on Winsor & Newtons site regarding the drying time of the their WMOs:

"When Artisan is thinned with water, the water evaporates from the paint film fairly rapidly, leaving behind a conventional film of oil that dries by means of oxidation. The different drying rates of Artisan colours are due to the different reaction of each pigment when mixed with oil. Winsor & Newton formulate each colour individually to optimise its drying rate, helping artists to avoid the problems of slow drying underlayers. However, the following list is a guide to the likely variations:

Fast drying (around 2 days)

Prussian Blue, Umbers.

Medium Drying (around 5 days)

Cadmium Hues, Phthalo Blue (red shade) and Phthalo Greens, Siennas, French Ultramarine, Synthetic Iron Oxides, Ochres, Titanium White, Zinc White, Lamp Black, Ivory Black.

Slow drying (more than 5 days)

Cadmiums, Permanent Rose (quinacridone), Permanent Alizarin Crimson."

[sidbledsoe]

Good point - thats why I always reccomend Raw umber as an underpainting colour - because of its siccative properties (or catalytic if you prefer), I just prefer to mix it with other fast drying pigments rather than use it to speed up slower drying ones, I've just recently found out that Davys grey is a good fast drying paint too - but its not available in artisan paints or Holbein aqua duo'a as far as I can tell :(
I have recently started using prussian blue/burnt umber mix for underpainting. These are the two fastest driers as Janet noted above from WN, maybe faster than cobalt blue/umber. I am very happy with how dark and gray I can get with this combo coupled with the fast drying.

[greywolf-art]

yeah I've heard that Prussian blue is supposed to be pretty good too - I'll have to give it a go sometime

[JamieWG]

I posted a step-by-step paint-tubing demo with photos, materials list, etc. on my website today (http://www.hudsonvalleypainter.com/2009/11/08/how-to-tube-paint-demo/), for anybody who needs it. I hope those of you who plan to tube some paint find it helpful.

Jamie