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HankB
10-28-2009, 02:28 PM
I have some Artisan fast dry medium in a little palette cup. I added some Artisan thinner to it expecting it to get, well, thinner. Instead it got milky and seems to be even thicker than before. It's still usable but has anyone else experienced this? Should I just try to thin the medium with water instead?

greywolf-art
10-28-2009, 02:36 PM
I always use the thinners to improve the flow of the fast dry medium, it does go a bit milky, but that doesn't affect the quality of the painting - it still dries transparent, never had the mix get thicker though!

If your not happy with the thinners then try using linseed oil instead - but only add a very small amount at a time as it can very quickly overthin the consistency

mawdwyn
10-28-2009, 02:38 PM
First - are you using the new, improved quick-dry?
I mix the quick-dry and the thinner, but it does need to be stirred/re-mixed each time you use it. Just give it a swish with your palette knife from time to time while you're painting. It does look a little cloudy, but works just fine. According to the info on the W&N site, it's OK to mix them.

Callie

PierceClark
10-29-2009, 04:29 AM
This is interesting to me.
Typically, I just use linseed oil and paint away.

The more I am reading, it sounds like I need to start out a bit thinner for the first applications of paint and actually use a drying agent of sorts.
I went into the WMO firstly because of allergies and secondly because I like the way the paint stays creamy and moist for a long time, long enough to actually finish the painting without stopping (small 5x7). At that time, I did not want anything to dry at all. However, I think I can see why you are doing this. Apparently, it is good to do the first applications, basic shapes, composition, values, etc. and let this dry? Dry for how long? I guess I am not very patient and want to finish a painting asap.

dspinks
10-29-2009, 08:51 PM
The more I am reading, it sounds like I need to start out a bit thinner for the first applications of paint and actually use a drying agent of sorts.
I went into the WMO firstly because of allergies and secondly because I like the way the paint stays creamy and moist for a long time, long enough to actually finish the painting without stopping (small 5x7). At that time, I did not want anything to dry at all.

If you like your results, you don't need to change your style. For smaller paintings such as yours done at one go, it probably wouldn't make much difference to use the quick-dry medium except in the overall drying time. I know an artist in Hawaii that does ala prima knife paintings for tourists. She uses a drying agent and can ship her paintings in about a week from painting them.

However, I think I can see why you are doing this. Apparently, it is good to do the first applications, basic shapes, composition, values, etc. and let this dry? Dry for how long? I guess I am not very patient and want to finish a painting asap.

It's not necessarily more "right" than what you now do; it's just another method of painting. If you do want to try painting in layers, then the quick-dry will help the underlayers dry fast enough to paint over in one day vs 2-3 days and the finished painting to dry more quickly. Typically, to maintain fat-over-lean you would also add thinner in the lower layers and oil in the last layers.

Debra

Lulu
10-30-2009, 03:30 AM
If your not happy with the thinners then try using linseed oil instead - but only add a very small amount at a time as it can very quickly overthin the consistency

how small is a very small amount to the ratio of paint? a drop, a few drops, more/less? and how does everyone apply it and mix it? Apply to the painting and wipe off? I've seen such varying advice and feel more than a tad confused about it.:confused:

PierceClark
10-30-2009, 05:46 AM
Thanks Debra, for affirming how I paint and explaining the fat over lean. Fat over lean makes sense to me, but I just have never been a patient painter. How nice to be able to paint in Hawaii and sell paintings!

I appreciate Lulu's question. I will be interested in hearing the answer because I may start a more detailed "realistic" larger painting someday.

Donna

greywolf-art
10-30-2009, 06:56 AM
how small is a very small amount to the ratio of paint? a drop, a few drops, more/less? and how does everyone apply it and mix it? Apply to the painting and wipe off? I've seen such varying advice and feel more than a tad confused about it.:confused:

sorry I should have clarified a bit, what I meant was that you can either add thinners to the fast dry medium then add this thinned mixture to your paint to improve flow and drying time,

or if you don't like the consistency of that you could add some linseed oil to the fast dry medium before adding it to the paint, either way you would keep the mixture in a dipper and just add it to your paint as needed.

I hope that makes sense.

as for amounts added thats up to the individual user to figure out based on personal preferences :)

Lulu
10-30-2009, 07:36 PM
hmmm, still not really what I'm after.........there must be a point where you can use too much? I still want to know how it's added, a drop at a time, a dip of the brush or palette knife etc?
How much do you use personally?

Sorry for all the ?????!

mawdwyn
10-30-2009, 08:10 PM
Lulu - You know how to ask the hard questions! :)
Everyone's going to have their own preference for how they like their paint to feel. What's too stiff for you might be too soft for me. Just use the least amount of medium to get the feel you want. I dip the end of my brush in it, then mix that into the color I'm going to use. If if feels too thin for what I want to do, I drag some more paint into it.
The best way to figure it out is just try it. Use a piece of canvas paper or board and try a few brushstrokes.

Have fun with it!
Callie

Lulu
10-30-2009, 09:14 PM
Aha! thank you Callie!!!:)

greywolf-art
10-31-2009, 06:42 AM
Lulu - You know how to ask the hard questions! :)
Everyone's going to have their own preference for how they like their paint to feel. What's too stiff for you might be too soft for me. Just use the least amount of medium to get the feel you want. I dip the end of my brush in it, then mix that into the color I'm going to use. If if feels too thin for what I want to do, I drag some more paint into it.
The best way to figure it out is just try it. Use a piece of canvas paper or board and try a few brushstrokes.

Have fun with it!
Callie
Exactly what I was about to say LOL, its all down to how you want your paint to handle, it is best to add the medium a drop at a time till you reach the consistency you need, you will find that it actually takes less medium than you think to get the right consistency.

With the oily binder based mediums (linseed oil, fast drying medium ect) you don't need to worry too much about over thinning the paint as all you will do is create a glaze, but with thinners (and water) too much will degrade the binder to the point of making the paint film unstable! but this is only when you are creating very thin 'watercolour' like washes.

bono1234
11-06-2009, 09:42 AM
Hi everyone, hope you have your thinking caps on as I really could do with your expertise, I am new to oils and covered in confusion. I have quite a lot of WN regular oils bought for me as a gift. I would like to use these alongside my WN Water soluable paints. I would like to try the Alexander technique 'wet in wet' as a starting point, Is there a 'Magic White' type mix that I can make, that will serve both paint types rather than buying twice, or is that a tall order? It would have to be without Turps as I can't stand the fumes. Also is it an option to clean the brushes using Baby Oils?

all the best
Bono 1234

mawdwyn
11-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Hi and welcome to the forum, Bono!

I started using M. Graham's walnut alkyd (speeds the drying time) so I could use my old oils with my water-miscable oils and still be able to clean up easily with soap and water. No turpentine needed. I know nothing about "Magic White", but you could try the Winsor-Newton Artisan thinner in your beginning layer to make the paint more fluid, then work into that.

You'll find a few different discussions about brush cleaning (here and in the main oil forum). I don't think baby oil was recommended. I wouldn't use any oil I wouldn't use in my paints. The brush cleaning thread in this forum covers a variety of non-toxic methods.

Have a look around, and maybe ask about the Magic White in the main oils forum, too?

Callie

bono1234
11-06-2009, 02:52 PM
Thanks Callie:wave: The alkyd sounds great and fast drying is so very ME. Not quite sure how to use it..just mix it in :confused:

As for the Magic White it is a product made only for standard oils and is a mix of Spirit Thinners, Oil and White Paint; it is designed to give a slick surface on which to blend paints. I have used Stand Oil and water as a greener alternative, but it takes forever to dry and I loose the will to live,

I will look further re the brush cleaning, thanks again.

Bono

mawdwyn
11-06-2009, 05:11 PM
It sounds like you could make a water-miscable version of that - Artisan stand oil, thinner and white paint. Seems like it would take a long time to dry.
As for using the thinner, alkyd, etc... if you read back through the previous posts, you'll get some idea how to go about mixing and using them.

Here's something about Liquid White from the oils forum - might be something of use in here for you:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325118

And here's something about wet-on-wet painting (without a magic/liquid white base):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=577674&highlight=wet-on-wet

Don't be afraid to experiment and try things out. Get some canvas-paper or cheap panels and get going, you'll start to figure out what approach/techniques/mediums work best for you :)

Callie

bono1234
11-07-2009, 07:45 AM
Hi Callie, :clap:
Many thanks for the links and good advice.
Bono :thumbsup: