Verithins or Polychromos

[janicemarie]

Hi all,
Oover on the australian Coloured pencil group on ning we have been discussing prismacolour verithins.
I thought I'd ask our international friends whether you all thought verithins were worth the money and if ny of you use polychromos to substitue.

In short, would you buy verithins or polychromos if you were looking for a fine line to supplement your prismacolour premiers.

Thanks in advance,
JaniceMarie

[Kev-B]

Hi Janice Marie ..

Nice to "meet" you .. :wave:

I have both Sanford Verithins & F-C Ploychromos ..

Whilst painting a picture using the Poly's .. I've used Verithins to add fine detail .. They sharpen to & hold a needle-fine point ..

I think they're worth the money simply because they permit one to really get into the tiny detail .. I used them quite extensively on my picture "Decimus Buteo" .. :thumbsup:

I've had no personal experience in completing a whole picture in Verithins .. I do however, know that it is possible, having seen some of Lee Hammond's bird paintings .. but it must be quite hard going ..

Rather than view Verithins as a substitute .. I like to think of them as a complement to Polychromos (and other brands of CP) ..

Bye for now,

Kev ..

[RG78]

I think that Derwent Studio is probably more similar to Verithins.
I've heard that Verithins is a little bit harder than Studio.

I think Polychromos is a lot softer than Verithins, but a bit harder than Prismacolor.

[drawstring]

I have Verithins and use them for fine lines, outlining, shading, etc, where a hard or fine point is definitely needed. I find them very useful. Because the verithins have a lower wax content, they are harder, this helps when smooth transitions are required such as in shading or drawing shadows.

The only other consideration might be the availability of replacement pencils in open stock. As you use up the pencils can you get individual replacement pencils rather than having to buy another set.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[TessDB]

I love verithins for the reasons everyone is talking about, but I wouldn't rely on them to complete a cp piece.

They have a smaller color range available than the regular prismas (or polychromos).
Because they are harder & less smooshy, I've never been able to get the color saturation/deepness/richness that I can with other sorts of pencils. They're great for a first layer, especially if you're going to be doing a complementary under-painting. But good for seeing you all the way through? Not so much. ;)

Rosemary

[NeilUnreal]

I have full sets of both Verithins and Polychromos. They are very different types of pencils, require different techniques, and produce different looking results. Think of them as like acrylic vs. oil: both paints, but as different as they are similar.

The Polychromos are traditional soft colored pencils, and produce high coverage, high saturation drawings. The Verithins are hard colored pencils, and produce a more sketch-like drawing.

Personally, I like the latter style, so I tend to like the Verithins better. I do whole drawings in Verithin. But for traditional colored pencil drawings Polychromos are better and are an excellent choice.

The main overlap is that Verithins can be great for hard edges and thin lines in traditional soft colored pencil drawings.

Verithins require a bit more skill in using color, since you have to blend most colors by hatching using the few colors available.

So to complement Prismas, if I had open stock available, I'd buy:

1) Verthins for the places where I needed hard edges and thin lines. Most likely this is in the darker, high saturation colors like black, indigo, terra cotta, etc.

2) Polys to supplement the color range of the Prismas. Especially for colors that are not available in Prismas and are hard to blend.

-Neil

[maxibleu]

I guess I'm the odd man out here! :( Personally, I don't like working with Prismacolor Verithins -- they are just "too scratchy" for me. When I need a fine line, I find that Caran d'Ache Pablos hold their point quite well and give me the delicate lines that I need. And, they come in a large variety of colors.

However, I do need to note that I have a heavy hand when it comes to my CP work -- that may well be the reason why I don't like using the Verithins.

Donna

[Blick Art Materials]

Hi Janice Marie and welcome to the forum! I, like many of the others, have both brands in my collection. However, I am like Donna, and hardly ever use the Verithins. I cannot seem to achieve the color saturation and pigment application I desire. Even for doing black outlines and details, I hardly ever go with the Verithins. I do like the Polychromos and use them interchangeably with my Prismas all the time.

Instead of buying the Verithins, I would strongly recommend a good sharpener that will allow you to get a needle sharp point. This is how I get fine detail. . . . lots and lots of minor sharpening.

Good luck with your decision and happy drawing.

Audra
Product Information
Blick Art Materials

[robertsloan2]

I think Verithins are worth the money, if only because they are significantly cheaper than Prismacolor Premier, match them and do have that hard texture. Sometimes a hard texture is exactly what I need. Derwent Studio is hard too but has its own "dry" texture that doesn't blend with Prismacolor Premier as easily.

I'd say they're worth it. Polychromos are significantly softer. Verithins are good for small details, edging and doing tonal layers similar to using a graphite pencil, where I want good control over the shading and don't expect full saturation.

Another pencil that's even cheaper in the Prismacolor products range but incredibly useful, is Sanford Col-Erase. I find if I use Col-Erase instead of graphite in the initial sketching I can choose matching or complementary colors and don't have graphite graying out light areas. Those also hold a good sharp point and are even cheaper than Verithins though they only come in 24 colors.

Derwent Studio or Artist is what I use when I want a hard pencil textured look over the whole drawing, since I've got the 120 color range in a wood box Artist set that I lucked and got on sale. Studio is the same core material in a hexagonal normal width barrel, Artist has wide cores but they are the same material. So I use those for their effects and Prismacolor Verithin for theirs.

Matching the Prismacolor Premier colors is very useful in both Col-Erase and Verithin because if I'm edging I don't usually want a hue shift right at the edge. So yeah, they are worth the money. They also last a long time because I don't use them much even when I use them -- I'll use them in quite small areas and maybe only sharpen once for an entire piece. So it's not like I'd need replacements often.

The only time I've done entire drawings with Verithins was when I bought the box just to test them and when I was a kid, before I had Prismacolors. They were at that time the best colored pencils I had, loads better than the normal kid-ones in terms of saturation. Once I got the real Prismacolors they fell into perspective as exactly what they are.

[pauline888]

Helloi, I'm wondering if there is a difference between Prismacolor Premiere Verithin Color Pencils and Prismacolor Verithin Color Pencils. I only noticed there are different 'Verithin' Pencils after ordering some on EBAy. Thank you for reading my query and I appreciate any help. Pauline:)

[TessDB]

Hi, Pauline! :wave:
Welcome to WetCanvas and the CP forum.

I'm wondering if there is a difference between Prismacolor Premiere Verithin Color Pencils and Prismacolor Verithin Color Pencils.

Nope! Prismacolor is in the process of re-branding all of their pencils to be "premiere". "Premiere" was used to help differentiate between the regular Prisma cp's and the lightfast (Now discontinued & shuffled into the regular prisma line) cp's. Now it appears they're using the word to help differentiate their artist grade line from the scholar/student line.

Long story short-- if the verithins say *verithin* on them, they're the real deal. :)

Hope that helps!
Looking forward to getting to know you and your work! :wave:
Rosemary

[AnnGarlough]

I also have full sets of both FC Polys and Verithins. They are two completely different pencils. Just like others who have posted before me, the Verithins primary use is in fine lines and definition of details. The Polys, which are oil based, are much softer and have a wider color range. I can't do without them for their varied applications. The Derwent Studio are indeed softer than the Verithins and I use those frequently as well.

Jen, I don't know of shipping would be astronomical or if you can even order from Dick Blick in Australia, but I would suggest first ordering a few individual pencils in any brand you are considering. Only you can determine if the "feel" when using one is what you are looking for in your individual style.

[AnnGarlough]

Hi, Pauline! :wave:
Welcome to WetCanvas and the CP forum.



Nope! Prismacolor is in the process of re-branding all of their pencils to be "premiere". "Premiere" was used to help differentiate between the regular Prisma cp's and the lightfast (Now discontinued & shuffled into the regular prisma line) cp's. Now it appears they're using the word to help differentiate their artist grade line from the scholar/student line.

Long story short-- if the verithins say *verithin* on them, they're the real deal. :)

Hope that helps!
Looking forward to getting to know you and your work! :wave:
Rosemary

Rosemary, I have heard for the last couple of years that the former Lightfasts would be assimilated into the Premier line but have never been able to get any kind of time-line. For the past year and a half I have been painstakingly researching information on the top ten CP brands for a specialized color/lightfast chart which is copyrighted and almost ready to go. I knew I would need to update it every now and then, but want to hold off until the changes at Prisma are complete if possible. Do you have any information at all as to when this new edition will be made available?

[TessDB]

Nope. None.

My guess? we'll never really know *when* it happened. My understanding of what they were going to be doing with the lightfast pencils was swap them into the regular line. So they've probably quit producing the non-lightfast pencils they're going to replace & started slipping the lightfast versions into the box sets etc.

There isn't a listing for the lightfast prismas as a separate entity at dick blick, Jerry's only has 4 pencils listed. There are still loads out there, but I'm willing the stores that have them are just running through their stock.

If I were you, I'd contact prisma directly and see if they'll give you any information.

Good luck!
Rosemary

[AnnGarlough]

Thanks so much Rosemary. The last time I contacted Prisma concerning this issue the silence was deafening, lol! So I suppose it is a huge internal secret. No harm in trying again though.

For anyone who is interested in any of the former Lightfast pencils, most of the color range is available on eBay through an outfit called Pens 'n More in boxes of a dozen for around $10.99. Lots less than the original Lightfasts were when they were readily available.