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View Full Version : FOCUS GROUP: Acrylic Paints/Mediums/etc.


scottb
09-03-2002, 01:48 AM
My initial thoughts:

I've loaded up a number of acrylic paints/mediums into the product review system. You can check the demo at any time to see what is there, what isn't, etc.

What we need to do is to continue compiling a solid list of the vendors and their brands If you can find vendor logos/info for vendors that don't have them yet, product images, product descriptions, etc., post 'em here and I'll incorporate them into the review system. If you can't find product images of good quality, product descriptions, etc., or don't have the time, that's okay - just post the vendor/brand name here, and I'll research it.

Also, we need to focus on the rating questions for the various Acrylic-related categories. To get us started, feel free to look at the Oil Paints thread for some ideas, as well as the current list of questions for Oil Paints.

The Current List

Here is the current list (which I will try to keep as up-to-date as possible):


Color Variety
Consistency/Workability
Pigment/Color Quality
Container/Tube Quality
Opaque Covering Ability (for opaque colors)
Transparency Rating (for transparent colors)
Value for the Money


Cheers.
Scott

surreal
09-03-2002, 08:56 PM
I'm always pressed for time so, I'm just going to list a few criteria important in the use of acylic paints:

consistency - uniformity of consistency; smoothness
drying time
transparency/opaqueness (as applies to color)
lightfastness

major vendor - Pearl Paint

brands of paint (very incomplete list):
Golden
Lascaux
Windsor & Newton

Rose Queen
09-03-2002, 10:25 PM
Here's logo and information on another fine manufacturer of acrylics, oils and watercolors:
http://www.danielsmith.com/2002/about/about-manufacturing.html



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scottb
09-04-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by surreal
consistency - uniformity of consistency; smoothness


Yes, we have this now for oils. Makes sense that it would be there for Acrylics, too.


drying time


I'm no Acrylic expert, so bear with me. All acrylic paints are (supposedly) fast drying (as compared to oils, I mean). Is "drying time" something that varies from one color to the next, within a line of paints, or is this something we can evaluate an entire line of paints on? i.e. Liquitex dries faster than Holbein.


transparency/opaqueness (as applies to color)


With oils, we split this into two questions - one asking to rate the opaque covering power, and the other to rate the transparent qualities. I assume we could do the same here?


lightfastness


doesn't lightfastness (and permanence) vary from one color to the next? If so, it would be tough to ask this question. Of course, if it is possible to evaluate an entire brand or line of paints with regard to lightfastness, this would be a good one.

Again, I'm no acrylic expert, so feel free to "trout slap" me if I'm asking silly things. :)

Cheers.
Scott

surreal
09-04-2002, 07:11 PM
Is "drying time" something that varies from one color to the next, within a line of paints, or is this something we can evaluate an entire line of paints on? i.e. Liquitex dries faster than Holbein.

Drying time does vary from color to color within a line of paints.
However when I switched from using Winsor & Newton to "Golden" I was certain that Golden paints didn't dry as quickly as W&N.



With oils, we split this into two questions - one asking to rate the opaque covering power, and the other to rate the transparent qualities. I assume we could do the same here?
I think it would be sufficient to rate the opacity of colors. I think that knowledge of opacity of colors is more desirable for acrylic painters but I can only really speak for myself.
Also, if opacity is excellent for a particular color, this color is obviously not transparent.
I don't think (in fact I am quite certain) that opacity of colors does not vary from one brand of paint to another.

surreal
09-04-2002, 07:19 PM
doesn't lightfastness (and permanence) vary from one color to the next? If so, it would be tough to ask this question. Of course, if it is possible to evaluate an entire brand or line of paints with regard to lightfastness, this would be a good one.

Lightfastness varies from one color to the next.
However one might be able to evaluate this quality perhaps, as it pertains to "artist grade" vs. "student grade" paints within each brand of paint.

I don't want to give the impression that I am an expert regarding acrylic paints, because I am not.
What I know about acrylic paints is based on my experience of painting with them for approximately 20 years.
:)

scottb
09-04-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by surreal

Drying time does vary from color to color within a line of paints.
However when I switched from using Winsor & Newton to "Golden" I was certain that Golden paints didn't dry as quickly as W&N.


Yes, but is it all relative with acrylics? I mean, if some brands take a really long time to dry, and others don't, I'd say this is something we can ask a reviewer to grade. If all acrylics dry fast, but some slightly faster than others, I'm not sure this will be very valuable.



I think it would be sufficient to rate the opacity of colors. I think that knowledge of opacity of colors is more desirable for acrylic painters but I can only really speak for myself.
Also, if opacity is excellent for a particular color, this color is obviously not transparent.
I don't think (in fact I am quite certain) that opacity of colors does not vary from one brand of paint to another.

Here I go "assuming" again. :) I was under the assumption that, like oils, certain colors are opaque, and some are more transparent. If this isn't the case, then a single question would work. Perhaps you can give me an example of the question we would ask, then the 5 possible answers.

Cheers.
Scott

scottb
09-04-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by surreal


Lightfastness varies from one color to the next.
However one might be able to evaluate this quality perhaps, as it pertains to "artist grade" vs. "student grade" paints within each brand of paint.


As the student and professional paints are in separate categories, does this make sense? Remember, the detailed product comparison only happens within the same category, so you can't really compare student paints to professional paints.


I don't want to give the impression that I am an expert regarding acrylic paints, because I am not.
What I know about acrylic paints is based on my experience of painting with them for approximately 20 years.
:)

Hey, that's 20 years more than I've worked with them - lol. :D

Cheers.
Scott

surreal
09-05-2002, 12:31 AM
If all acrylics dry fast, but some slightly faster than others, I'm not sure this will be very valuable.

I agree with you - all acrylic paints dry fast.

As the student and professional paints are in separate categories, does this make sense? Remember, the detailed product comparison only happens within the same category, so you can't really compare student paints to professional paints.

I agree with you again.


I was under the assumption that, like oils, certain colors are opaque, and some are more transparent.

You are correct in your assumption.
:D

timelady
09-05-2002, 06:06 AM
I second the consistency bit as this varies so much in acrylics - some brands are very fluid, others very stiff. And different artists prefer different types. :) I'm a fluid girl myself and would rather buy a fluid consistency brand then add medium.

Color changes in acrylics are also common when using mediums - so maybe a way of grading colour consistency when medium is added? Some brands are much better at "holding" the colour value with medium. That would be a trait of the mediums rather than the paints, btw, from my experience. Grading would be something like 'no colour change' to 'large change in opacity' when medium is added per the manufacturer's instructions.

Tina.

scottb
09-08-2002, 05:53 PM
I've updated the list at the top - thoughts?

surreal
09-08-2002, 06:02 PM
I have a thought about the following:
Pigment/Color Quality

I recommend instead of color quality, you spell out the color quality I think you are referring to which is "lightfastness".

So, how about:

Pigment/lightfastness


:)

scottb
09-08-2002, 06:17 PM
We could do that, but then, do you ask them to rate "permanence" as well?

surreal
09-08-2002, 06:38 PM
Hi,
Lightfastness connotes permanence.
This is a direct quote from artlex.com:

lightfast - Having the ability to resist fading on long exposure to sunlight. Denotes permanence when applied to pigment. The opposite quality is called fugitive.


:cat:

scottb
09-08-2002, 09:22 PM
Yes, you are correct. They are implicitly related.

This came up in the oils discussion thread here, and we felt that since lightfastness would vary from one color to the next within the same brand/line of paints, that it would be difficult to rate for an entire line. So we decided upon a more generic "pigment/color quality" rating.

Open to other interpretations/thoughts, of course.

Cheers.
Scott

puzzlinon
09-19-2002, 05:58 AM
I wouldn't read "color quality" as equating to lightfastness/permanence. There are a couple of issues I can think of:


Pigment load - this is an area where different brands differ enormously.

Accuracy/quality of hue - is the alizarin crimson really the right hue or is it off key somehow, etc? (This is where Liquitex sucks, I find; their pigments just don't seem correct somehow.)

(Aside, I think of lightfastness and permanence as the same measure, not two related ones... what's the distinction?)

On the transparency/opaqueness issue, I think the useful rating question would be, is the manufacturer's information about transparency/opaqueness clear and accurate? Some makers are very skimpy and expect you to just know that ultramarine is translucent, for instance; others give quite accurate ratings.

If we report how heavy the pigment load is, and how accurate the colors are, and how accurate the opaqueness information is, I think that would cover the brand variations for "color quality" pretty well.

scottb
09-19-2002, 03:11 PM
You are correct re: lightfastness/permanence.

Interesting thought re: tranparency information. Love to hear more thoughts on that subject. :)

surreal
09-19-2002, 09:48 PM
puzzlinon,

Accuracy/quality of hue - is the alizarin crimson really the right hue or is it off key somehow, etc? (This is where Liquitex sucks, I find; their pigments just don't seem correct somehow.)

In my experiences using Windsor & Newton, Liquitex, Pebeo, Lascaux and Golden, I haven't had the unfortunate experience you have described.

I guess I have been lucky.
:)

paintergirl
09-20-2002, 12:12 PM
Consistancy and texture are important to me, becaase I like to do some finely detailed works that often involve smooth strokes.

You are right Nina ...Golden does not dry as fast as Winsor and Newton..
Stevenson is another brand I came across not long ago, very creamy and doesn not seem to dry out quick at all.

I was using liquitex for quite awhile but have since been told that it contains alot of 'fillers' which could intrude with the permanence of the pigment. I am still hunting down info for that.
Getting transparency info for you too Scott.


Willl this catagory also include acrylics dyes? I work with those also and there are some phenominal ones out there now.

scottb
09-20-2002, 02:31 PM
My guess would be that acrylic dyes would be in a separate category....

gnu
05-04-2004, 05:39 AM
Hi Scott..I use Atelier acrylics...the artist quality ones carry a lightfastness rating - for example: Cad. Yellow Medium is ASTM 1, British Woolscale 8:8:8, the same tube has the Characteristic- Opaque, plus it gives the pigment
(conc. Cad Sulphide PY.37) and vehicle: Acrylic Polymer emulsion..
In contrast the yellow light hansa is - semi-transparent,ASTM 2, Woolscale 7-8:7-8:6-7.(Arylamide PY.3)
I find it pretty useful, and certainly would if using glazes.
On the other hand, Pebeo labelling is pretty useless...
I could always list these details for the colours I have(which is most) in Atelier,if there's a place in the Products area.
Gill

snarkhr
12-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Seems like a lot going on here. From what I understand, opacity is directly related to the type of pigment. Several high quality comapanies clearly mark the opacity of the pigment on their tube or jar. The use of a transparent or opaque pigment is simply a mater of technique and personal preference. Both opaque and transparent pigments have certain strengths in certain techniques.

Dry time varies by technique, local temperature, humidity etc. etc. It can also be controlled via retarders. Heavy bodied paints seem to dry slower but generally because the application is thicker. There are consistant testing procedures available from lab companies.

One missing criteria I'd like to suggest is surface sheen when dry. Colors may vary (due to pigment) but manufacturers seem to have a general preference for most colors. Some like a high gloss, others more of a satin sheen.

cheson
12-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Hope you don't mind my jumping in.
I was enjoying your thread as I'm looking around the different forums to get my bearings.

You can kick me right out again if you want - I'll understand.

I'm an employee at Jack Richeson & Company and noticed you are missing Tri-Art Acrylics on your list. We are now the distributor in the US and the line offers an outstanding selection of acrylics for the professional artist. If there is any information we can provide, I would be happy to help - or you can check out their web: www.tri-art.ca

We will be a new partner to Wet Canvas in the new year, which will make it easier for all WC members to locate more information on any of our paint lines.

Good luck with your acrylic project!
Cheson

a. ladd
12-24-2007, 02:27 PM
Cheson -
Welcome aboard here - I hope you can provide info and support for the Tri-Art affectionatoes here!

cheson
12-27-2007, 04:10 PM
a. ladd,

I can help you with any information you need.
As we are starting our partnership with WC within a week, and I'm still trying to find out how I can help get product information to members on the site, I am open to any ideas you have.

Is the Product Review Database a place artists look or does each forum have a special place they use for product info?

For now the best place for information is on the manufacturers website:
www.tri-art.ca

For artists within the U.S. interested in the finest quality lines, I would be happy to send printed color charts. For professional artists who already know what they like in a paint, I would suggest looking at a hand-made color chart that shows the opacity/transparency, the gloss/matte finish of the paint and the actual color of the paint. Retail stores have these charts with their display rack or they can be purchased. Another great feature found only on the Stephen Quiller Acrylic line is that each tube is labeled with the complimentary color. This is definitely a professional quality paint worth giving a try if you haven't already done so.

Once our partnership starts you will be able to link to Jack Richeson & Co. directly to find the nearest dealer.

Happy painting,
cheson

Stacey3352
06-03-2011, 04:05 PM
I don't know if this helps but natural pigments are usually
opaque and modern pigments are transparent.

Vivelart
09-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Hi all painters,
This message relates to acrylic paint tubes, not to other specific subjects approached in this thread. I am an artist and art product developer. I developed several products, one of which is yet to be licensed. My task here is to ask any acrylic painter in this Forum about the act of organizing tubes. My product is a tube organizer, can take 60 tubes in a small footprint (15" x 15"), easily accessible, all-aluminum product, with adjustable rows and usable for other tubes as oils, glues, watercolors, cake decoration colors,etc.. Since I won't divulge the actual image of my prototype till it's legally protected, my proposed question is whether anyone out there can envision such a product in their working space; would they buy it, for what price? I am careful in not investing more time and energy on this project if it has no future.
Thanks for your opinion and other perspective,
Vivelart in San Jose, Calif

Yorky
09-16-2011, 03:23 AM
You would be as well to ask the question in the Acrylics or Oils forum.

Remember no commercial links, as per the Member Agreement (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/rules.php).

Doug