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Dea
06-24-2009, 06:33 AM
Does anyone here have any thoughts on online art courses? Do you know of any that are worthwhile?
I want to learn more about art, specifically pastels and portrait painting but there are no workshops or courses in my area.
I have looked at international artists virtual art academy but their programs seem to be for oil, waterclolour and acrylic not really for pastel, I am not sure they would help me much.
Any info would be a great help,

Deanna

rasberry
06-24-2009, 08:47 AM
hi there :-) being a fellow Aussie i understand what you mean.. have you thought about dvds? im teaching myself by watching Jackie simmonds dvds.. they are great.. easy to understand and have a wealth of information..

Leigh Rust who is a pastellist (and an Aussie) on here also does online lessons through skype i think.. though he also does lessons via dvd and feedback..
Naomi

Dea
06-25-2009, 01:23 AM
Thanks Naomi,
I have thought about dvds, I brought Maxwell Wilks dvd awhile back. I love the way he uses colour and his impressionist style but landscapes aren't really my thing. I want to develope my own style but I'm not sure how you do that.
Seems like if I painted in watercolour or oils there would be a lot more info out there, Oh well I will keep looking,

Deanna

T.Evans
06-25-2009, 02:09 AM
Hey, where can I get Jackie Simmons dvds? I have a couple-Debra Secor and Katheryn Hurley. I haven't found alot available?:confused:
Tres

rasberry
06-25-2009, 03:31 AM
Im in australia... so i got mine locally.. but you can get them from Amazon.. when our dollar was better i used to buy things from amazon and import them..
Naomi

Paula Ford
06-25-2009, 07:57 AM
Hi Deanna,

Right here in the Pastel Forums of WC is a wealth of information. Go to the "Soft Pastel Studio" and do a search for "demo." That will bring up tons of demos with step by step instructions.

As far as dvd's and books, there are lots of great ones out there. Try Richard McKinley dvd's, Maggie Price's books are fabulous, as are Jackie Simmons'. Deborah Secor has some wonderful dvd's also.

Dakota has lots of dvd's to look at here http://www.dakotapastels.com/pages/booksvideos-videos.aspx

and their books here http://www.dakotapastels.com/pages/booksvideos-books.aspx

Well, that will get you started. Have fun shopping!

Colorix
06-25-2009, 08:23 AM
Do a search in Pastel Gallery/Studio with the letters "wip", which will give you all the demos by people who are too shy to call it a demo!

DAK723
06-25-2009, 09:57 AM
Not to toot my own horn, but you might find some useful info in my portrait and figure classroom here in the soft pastel talk forum!

The link is to the latest classroom, but right at the top you will find links to the first 4 lesson which were all about portraits.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561275

Two books that have been in my library for years are:

Painting Expressive Pastel Portraits by Paul Leveille

Capturing Personality in Pastel by Dennis Frost

Not sure if they are still in print.

As for developing your own style, the more you paint, the more your individual way of painting will come to the fore. That will be your style. Trying to "create" a style will usually appear false and doesn't work in the long run - that is my opinion!

Don

Phil Bates
06-25-2009, 10:36 AM
Hi Deanna,

I will be filming Dawn Emerson (http://www.dawnemerson.com) next month and offering that instruction via online and DVDs. She is only the first of many and I hope to make a more formal announcement later this Summer.

Phil

gingersnap
06-25-2009, 10:41 AM
hello,
i was just going to suggest don's pastel portrait thread here at wc!! i have been working on it. he gives incredible feedback so you can see where you go astray! don is also very encouraging. beginning can be a bit frustrating at the get go!

ginger

Shirl Parker
06-25-2009, 12:16 PM
There's quite a lot on YouTube, go to this link (http://www.youtube.com/) and type pastel in the search box.

There are also occasionally programs on the painting channel (http://thepaintinganddrawingchannel.com/tv-anytime.html), and check for ones in pastel.

Dea
06-26-2009, 01:20 AM
Thanks everyone,
Paula thanks for the links, I didn't realize there was so much avaliable, I didn't even know Jackie Simmons had dvds.
Don I will look in on your classroom soon, thanks for the book suggestions I will see if they are avaliable still. I would really like to get hold of a copy of Harley Brown's Eternal truths but the only copies I can find are used ones on Amazon for $150.00 US, which is even more here, I can't quite afford that :(
Shirl, there is a painting channel? You people are so lucky, we don't get it here,

Deanna

Shirl Parker
06-26-2009, 06:29 AM
...there is a painting channel? You people are so lucky, we don't get it here...

It's not a broadcast TV channel, it's an internet channel, so you should be able to go there with no problem.

pumkin54
07-05-2009, 09:08 PM
I recently bought the complete course of Virtual Art Academy, which I since have changed my mind about mostly because I didn't like the attitude of the course. Hard to explain.

But the warning I have to give is that if you end up wanting a refund, you must first:
1) Send them an email providing them with the URLs of another online downloadable art course that you found better.
2) They will then email you a second form that you have to fill out and then FAX to them. (Very fun and pita if you don't actually have a fax machine lying around.) This form requires you to explain (again) why you want a refund and answer a few other questions.

The refund form also has you sign multiple statements to the effect of "Yes, I have disposed of any printouts I made," "Yes, I deleted all files from my computer," "No, I didn't email these files to anybody else," etc. It then goes on to threaten that it has embedded all of the files with tracking software and they will know if we continue to use any of the documents after being issued a refund.

Also, I'd like to share that, in response to the URL's I provided of online courses I found better, I was emailed the following:
"Watercolorsecrets.net is an internet marketing business created by Paintbox Art Media Ltd. If you do a search on Google for "Bob Davies", you will find nothing (apart from websites created by Paintbox Art Media Ltd.) - no professional galleries, no professional group or solo exhibitions, no museum shows, no artists awards, and no independent reviews of the artist. This is not what you would expect from a professional artist, and more what you would expect to see from a purely marketing driven company whose main goal is profit. There are many of these types of businesses on the internet that all market themselves in a similar way, and that feature "artists" that when you do a search, do not seem to exist." ... It then goes on to tout the superiority of Barry John Raybould.

This website is limited in that it only covers two of the nine foundation building blocks of painting (process and drawing), and no information that is relevant to painting landscapes or still lifes. A search for Michael Britton on the internet reveals only one site (http://www.drawingsociety.com) that is not owned by his business. This is strange for a professional artist (no awards, no museum shows, no gallery representation), and suggests that the author's principle profession may be selling how to draw courses, and is not a series full time professional artist. Having said this the material does look useful for someone interesting in learning how to draw portraits and the drawings of are of reasonable quality. This website is good, but it will only show you how to draw, you still need all the other principles of painting (such as notan, composition, brushwork) in order to paint a good portrait. ... It then goes on to tout the superiority of Virtual Art Academy.

I actually found this response offensive because I've been a long-time visitor of Bob Davies' how-to-draw-and-paint.com website for a couple of years now and have watched many of his videos. He has a great personality, an authentic friendly manner, and is obviously skilled as a painter. It quickly becomes clear that his only purpose is to share what he's learned, and he deserves nothing but respect.

One other thing to note. The Virtual Art Academy does have videos and an online forum to accompany their course...for an additional fee. I find it ironic that they try to tear down other courses for being only after money and then require an extra $100 for the videos and $20 annually for access to the member forums after you've already bought the main course.

If you've read all of this, you'll maybe understand by now what I meant by "attitude" when I started this post. This same attitude I've just described is evident throughout the actual course text itself. It's not blatant, but it's definitely detectable to anybody sensitive to those things.

Just my $0.02 worth. And if you want a refund, please fax me the appropriate form.

Winny Kerr
07-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Oh I am SOOOO frustrated as I am not doing very well with my skies...bother! I have tossed three attempts already....not sure why its not coming to me. I'm feeling miserable.... LOL.:o
So..any help I can find is great and now I can see where to find WIP's and Demo's so this thread is very timely. I'll go check it out, thank you all for your suggestions. Oh and I'll never quit....... :smug: Winny

saramathewson
07-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Winny,
I feel your pain! LOL! I am struggling with skies too. I just can't seem to make them work. Not great if landscape is your thing. For me the learning curve for landscapes and especially skies is huge! So, I agree that this is wonderful to have places to look. Tressa had a nice thread going on painting clouds last year before she got sick too if you haven't checked that out. I don't have the link readily available but I'm sue it wouldn't be too hard to find.

Sara

Winny Kerr
07-06-2009, 09:15 PM
Thanks Sara, I seem to have a reall mental block at the moment....:eek: . Funny how that happens. I'm almost ready to "forget" skies....hahaha. But then I am a bit stubborn too and think...darn it, do it...get it right :wink2: . But a bit of help would be great right now. Like a WIP from start to finish...LOL. I'll look for Tressa's thread, hope she is feeling better now that you remind me of her. I'll lift her up in prayer. Winny

Dot Hoffman
07-07-2009, 12:40 PM
What kind of skies are you thinking about? Faint clouds, lots of clouds, storm clouds, clear skies, sunsets? It would help if you'd give us some idea what you are trying to do. Maybe I can help if I know that much. Thanks :)

Winny Kerr
07-07-2009, 03:49 PM
Hi Dot...I was trying to do cumulus clouds, but I hear they are difficult to get right. I use a terra cotta colored matboard with a coat of pastel primer. Maybe I should use a white background rather then terra cotta color.
And then choosing the right colors? :rolleyes: I have a full set of Rembrandts and NuPastels. I'll get it right one of these days.....LOL. Thank you for wanting to help that is so sweet of you. Winny

Dot Hoffman
07-07-2009, 04:32 PM
I was trying to do cumulus clouds, but I hear they are difficult to get right. I use a terra cotta colored matboard with a coat of pastel primer. Maybe I should use a white background rather then terra cotta color.
And then choosing the right colors? I have a full set of Rembrandts and NuPastels. I'll get it right one of these days.....LOL.

Winny, I honestly don't remember what color paper I used. It was sanded paper, probably Art Spectrum Colorfix. I used soft pastels -- a mix of Great Americans, Unisons, maybe some Mount Visions. I work from the back to the front....so the dark sky went in first and (horrors :eek: ) I blended them in with my finger. To do the clouds I study my photo reference, then draw in the tops of the one(s) furthest in the background, and with my little finger, I "pull" the color down leaving a tiny bit untouched at the top and outer edges. Then lay in the next color/value and do the same. Finally, touch up with the lightest lights as needed for the rim lights, the darkest darks for the deepest shadows, and pull very slightly as above. It takes a bit of practice. I don't know if you will be able to pull it off with Rembrandts...they tend to be too hard for this method, and NuPastels certainly are too hard.

You might check with http://www.dakotapastels.com or some of the other art wholesalers for sales to get a good price on softer pastel sticks. Right now they have good sale on Great American's new sets, almost as good a price as buying them at the IAPS candy store in May.

Good luck and have patience...I hope it will pay off for you.

helenh
07-10-2009, 10:24 AM
Hi Dot...I was trying to do cumulus clouds, but I hear they are difficult to get right. I use a terra cotta colored matboard with a coat of pastel primer. Maybe I should use a white background rather then terra cotta color.
And then choosing the right colors? :rolleyes: I have a full set of Rembrandts and NuPastels. I'll get it right one of these days.....LOL. Thank you for wanting to help that is so sweet of you. Winny

Winny - I agree with Dot that it could be the hard pastels you are using. You might want to try some nice softies like Terry Ludwig, Unison, etc. I love using the PanPastels for skies. Some folks get fabulous results with the hard pastels, but I think they use a different technique than what I'm used to doing.

jackiesimmonds
07-10-2009, 03:30 PM
Gosh it is wierd to see my name mentioned a few times in this thread.

I'd like to say a few things about the whole learning process.

While it is good to watch DVD's, you will pick up stuff from every one you watch, what you REALLY need is a good progression in your painting learning. You cannot run before you can walk.

While I enjoyed writing the books I have written, and making those DVD's, there were restrictions imposed by the amount of pages, the format that the publisher demanded, the amount of time, and so forth.

I think it is well worth while to consider the whole business of learning to paint in a progressive way.

So

BEGIN WITH LEARNING TO DRAW 3D FORM ACCURATELY, AND THEN GO ON TO UNDERSTAND AND SEE TONES CORRECTLY. Work with charcoal, and also try soft pencil, and use still life objects, use different angles of lighting, get a really good "tonal" scene going. If your tones are seen correctly, in b&w, as it were, you are making a big leap forwards. Do lots of tonal drawings, no colour, get that drawing skill under your belt.

THEN LEARN TO TRANSLATE TONE INTO COLOUR. There are lots of exercises you can do which will help you with this aspect of learning, but the important thing is to make sure you have GOT IT, whatever exercises you try. If you want some more info on this and cannot find exercises, let me know.

COLOUR IS A WHOLE MASSIVE LEARNING CURVE, all of its own. You have to learn about colour tone, colour temperature, colour intensity, the colour wheel, complementaries, harmonies - every picture you tackle, while going through this part of the learning process, should concentrate on a particular aspect of colour, working towards gaining understanding.

THEN SPEND SOME TIME LEARNING ABOUT DESIGN AND COMPOSITION. So much to learn here, really interesting stuff. I heartily recommend Greg Al;berts book THE SIMPLE SECRET TO BETTERPAINTING for this part of your study.

Gradually, if you work in this way, all this learning will underpin everything you do.

My DVD's ARE interesting and full of stuff, but each one concentrates on just one aspect of learning, because of the time restrictions, as I said before. The first book I wrote, PASTELS WORKSHOP, is more comprehensive, and touches on all of the above, and you can supplement the learning from that book by reading loads of other books, the more you read, the more you will learn, and the more you learn, the more you have to apply.



Jackie

Phil Bates
07-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Does anyone here have any thoughts on online art courses? Do you know of any that are worthwhile?....

Deanna

Deanna (or anyone else who would care to answer),
Would you be willing to pay $10-$20 for downloadable pastel video instruction of 1/2 hour or more? Master instructors like Alan Flattman, Richard McKinley, Dawn Emerson, Kim Lordier, etc. I am working on such a business model. The filming of Dawn Emerson went well, by the way.

Thanks,
Phil

Devonlass
07-15-2009, 07:15 PM
I just found this thread by accident, but yes, I for one would be interested.

Colorix
07-16-2009, 05:21 PM
Phil, definitely! Downloadable works all over the world, no funny formats.

Charlie

b123
11-29-2009, 11:17 AM
Just my $0.02 worth. And if you want a refund, please fax me the appropriate form.
Hi, this is Barry John Raybould, the author of the courses. This lady raised a very good point, and we have taken her suggestions to heart. There is no longer any need to fax in any forms if anyone wants a refund. They will get an immediate refund with no questions asked. Also we have now included the online forum and the videos in with the main program. I am always happy to receive any suggestions for improving the courses.

Just fyi for anyone reading this post, there are over 1500 students now who have bought the courses and several new people are now signing up every day. There are also over 30,000 people who are getting the free series of lesson that I give out to help people learn a little more about what the program is all about. If anyone is interested you can sign up for the free series of painting lessons here. (http://www.virtualartacademy.com/vaa_newsletter.php)

I would also like to also point out that apart from the above post, we have not had to return a single course over the past 6 months. If you want to find out what the general reaction to my courses is, we put all the letters we receive about our painting courses here (http://www.virtualartacademy.com/vaa_testimonials.php) on our website and we update this list every month.

Just one further point I would like to add is that I did not write these courses for the casual hobbyist but for serious beginners or painters who have been painting for a while and who have become frustrated with how little progress they have been making. It is a very methodical approach and requires some work - in fact there is about three years of study in the full program, equivalent in total to a three-year program at an art academy. I also don't promise any quick fixes in the courses, because I don't believe there are any - I'm a firm believer that you can only improve your painting if you build up a solid foundation of skills.

Also if you like you can see a discussion about my paintings here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565990&highlight=barry+john+raybould), on this forum, and view more of my own artwork on www.bjrgallery.com (http://www.bjrgallery.com). Any success I have had as a painter is due to the knowledge I have learned over the years, and everything I have ever learned about painting is included in the courses.

(this post refers to the Virtual Art Academy painting classes (http://www.virtualartacademy.com))

Thanks for reading this post!
Barry

saramathewson
11-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Phil,

I would be interested as well in those videos you are doing. So much to learn, so little time:)

Sara

nvcricket
11-30-2009, 03:25 AM
I'm pipping in too....

Also here on WC there is a forum, like pastel forum, that is called Drawing and Sketching. A subforum there called Classroom is full of great lessons for basic art skills. Dianna Ponting has a great class in pastel where you can follow along, and if you are couragious, pastel along, to learn basic techniques. Terrific lesson, and she still pops in to offer encouragement to anyone who is participating. I did it and learned tons. I love what I did! THANK YOU DIANNA!
here is the url... http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405403

Carol

knippes
11-30-2009, 08:29 AM
I just signed up for a subscription to artistsnetwork.tv (http://www.artistsnetwork.tv/) Its part of North Light and they've got many wonderful artists on there (Deborah is one of them). They've got workshops about pastels and (all other mediums too of course), composition, color etc etc. I've found it very helpful so far.
-Kym

Colorix
11-30-2009, 09:48 AM
Barry, I have your class on Notan, which has taught me a lot. Found it very sincere and thorough, and definitely demanding that one works through the stuff, which is great with me, as that *is* the only way to really internalize a concept. This style suits me, so I have only good things to say, but it may not suit others. Very good you've made refunding easier, as it makes us who take classes be more ready to try them out.

Charlie

Jenine
11-30-2009, 11:45 AM
I've recently discovered this source for renting pastel DVD's. They have a surprising amount of DVD's on pastels. Good place to rent and see if you like them before you buy them.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/162/Pastel-Charcoal

b123
11-30-2009, 02:39 PM
Barry, I have your class on Notan, which has taught me a lot. Found it very sincere and thorough, and definitely demanding that one works through the stuff, which is great with me, as that *is* the only way to really internalize a concept. This style suits me, so I have only good things to say, but it may not suit others. Very good you've made refunding easier, as it makes us who take classes be more ready to try them out.

Charlie
Hi Charlie,
I've been working recently on adding some more things to the Notan course -- I am adding some information on common problems that I see over and over in student's work that you might find useful. I'm not sure if you signed up for the Academy Membership or not, but if you did you will automatically get the new update in this month's members newsletter.

I have also recently been researching the topic of design in a painting that is proving to be very interesting and making me rethink my whole approach to painting. Some time over the next 12 months when I think I understand it and when I can find the time away from my painting, I'll try to document the new ideas and write a new update for the composition and notan courses.

best regards,
Barry

By the way, here's the latest painting I am working on. I think it is a good example of Notan design. If you are interested, here is some more information about the painting and some closeup shots of the brushwork (http://barryjohnraybould.blogspot.com/2009/11/zoucheng-girl-my-first-painting.html).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Nov-2009/158506-br_xxx_edits.jpg

lisaastrup
02-24-2010, 06:29 PM
bumping this thread:

I'm taking a online workshop in whimsical painting/drawing and I think its
really good if you like whimsy people or animals.

http://www.arttradermag.com/node/7


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2010/79005-girl5.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2010/79005-jes1.jpg