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morning glory
08-25-2002, 02:45 PM
Hello all!

I am back with more questions. I have always painted with just the oil paint straight out of the tube, which is the way I was taught. I have been doing a lot of reading and researching on this website, and have discovered that a lot of people mix the oil paint with a mixture of stand oil/turps. Therefore, I would like to purchase some of these mediums from Dick Blick's catalog. They advertise a Weber Turpenoid and Weber Turpenoid Natural. Are these products satisfactory? I am also going to purchase some of Gamblin's Stand Oil.

Also, one of the things I am not completely clear about, why do oil painters mix their oils with stand oil/turps? Does it help the paint dry more quickly, help the paint go on the support better, protect the paint from aging...???

I would like to thank everyone in advance for their help. I love this site and esp. this specific forum. I have learned sooo much in such a short time. I love to paint and this site makes the experience even more fulfilling.

Thank you,

Morning Glory

Wayne Gaudon
08-25-2002, 03:02 PM
This may help you (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49355&highlight=thick+paint)

morning glory
08-26-2002, 03:04 PM
Wayne,

Thanks so much for suggesting I read through the thicker-paint--how? thread. I have seen this thread but did not think to read through myself. I began reading and taking notes last night, but have not read all the posts. Ofcourse it seems it is being updated daily.

Thanks again,

Morning Glory

DraigAthar
08-26-2002, 03:30 PM
I use Turpenoid Natural mainly as a brush cleaner, not as a thinning medium. On the back of the can, it suggests using it as no more than 25% of a paint/medium mixture, because it's not the same as regular turps.

Amy

morning glory
08-26-2002, 04:10 PM
Ooh, okay. So, what would qualify as regular turps? Right now I use mineral spirits, just the ole stinky stuff you can buy at the local hardware store.

Thanks,

Morning Glory

G.L. Hoff
08-26-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by morning glory
Ooh, okay. So, what would qualify as regular turps? Right now I use mineral spirits, just the ole stinky stuff you can buy at the local hardware store.

Jumping in with my two cents:

First, it's important to use the best solvents you can. Here's why.

First, "regular turps" is an artist grade material called "rectified turpentine" because it's distilled to remove a large amount of impurity. It comes from the sap of evergreens and is a very potent solvent. It makes loverly varnishes and mediums and can be used alone to thin paint.

Turpenoid is a product from Weber that is purified mineral spirits ("white spirit" or "odorless mineral spirits") that is a petroleum distillate containing long chain aliphatic hydrocarbons. It's used as a turp substitute but can't be used to make dammar varnish--only turp will do for that.

Turpenoid Natural is a product made from citrus. It contains, if I'm not mistaken, d-limonene and is also used as a substitute for turp, although it's not a very good one. It's sometimes used to thin paint; I used to do that but only added about 5-10% max to the paint by volume. I now have a years-old can because I like turp so much better.

I use a lot of turp but in small amounts at a time, dispensed from a squeeze bottle. And I ventilate the studio too.

Regards

impressionist2
08-27-2002, 08:59 AM
Turpenoid is a product from Weber that is purified mineral spirits ("white spirit" or "odorless mineral spirits") that is a petroleum distillate containing long chain aliphatic hydrocarbons. It's used as a turp substitute but can't be used to make dammar varnish--only turp will do for that.


I am using turpenoid 50/50 with stand oil. I cannot take the fumes of turps. Aside from perhaps a little less purity, I don't see any difference, and I haven't heard a valid argument against it yet on the boards except that "it's not as good as turps". But, it sure solves the fumes problems. Hard to paint with a massive headache.

It works for me, and I know a couple of pros that use it too. The real stuff, not the natural.


Renee

G.L. Hoff
08-27-2002, 09:23 AM
Yeah, Turpenoid works fine except if you're making dammar varnish (clouds it too much). Actually, tho, generic OMS can be obtained in artist grades from various suppliers and is generally cheaper than Turpenoid but works just as well. It's not as powerful a solvent as turp but works fine for those who can't or don't want to use turpentine. I use it, although mostly to clean brushes.

Another solvent that I like (but it ain't cheap) is oil of spike lavender. It's smooooooth.

Regards

Titanium
08-27-2002, 09:40 AM
No problems there Renee,

stand oil easily thins with mineral spirits.

Alkyd oil resin also thins with mineral spirits.

Mineral spirits as far as I have read does not
age like Turpentine which becomes "fat oil"
with exposure to air,resinous and sticky.

If your using or making Maroger,or dammar
varnish,Doubly Rectified Turpentine is your
essential oil for diluting or use as a solvent.
Titanium

G.L. Hoff
08-27-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Titanium
Mineral spirits as far as I have read does not
age like Turpentine which becomes "fat oil"
with exposure to air,resinous and sticky....
Titanium

The residue that's left from turp is much less with artist grade material. A good test might be to put some hardware store turp and artist turp side by side in a small dish (perhaps white) and let it evaporate. The artist grade turp is colorless and will leave a tiny bit of oily residue if it's very pure ("double rectified") but hardware store stuff is yellow-brown, stinky, and leaves a much thicker, darker residue.

Mineral spirits may age like that, too, depending on impurities. Artist grade OMS is almost pure, straight-chain hydrocarbons (usually about 10 carbon atoms, more or less) with less than 1% impurities. But hardware store paint thinner or mineral spirits, again, will be more likely to have aromatic molecules as contaminants and leave an oily residue.

Regards

morning glory
08-28-2002, 07:21 AM
If I am understanding everyone correctly, using Turpenoid as a medium with stand oil is okay. Using a more pure turpentine is ideal as a medium with stand oil and in making damar varnish. Turpenoid Natural is suggested only as a brush cleaner.

So, where do I find the artist grade turpentine?

Once again I thank everyone for their help!

Morning Glory

G.L. Hoff
08-28-2002, 10:49 AM
You're correct about tupr or mineral spirits working with stand oil. You can get 'em from many sources: local art stores; catalog dealers like Pearl Paint, Daniel Smith, Gamblin, etc; or over the Internet.

Because of a lot of misinformation about turp, it's hard to find in quantity in my area, so I order it in half-gallon and gallon sizes (cheaper than the little tiny, very expensive bottles you'll see in most hobby or art stores). Also, because turp is inflammable, it has to be shipped by surface means, but you can have it sent to you at minimal cost.

One of the best pieces of advice I can give you is if you want to use any solvent in painting, get artist grade material.

Regards

Noble
08-28-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by G.L. Hoff
Because of a lot of misinformation about turp, it's hard to find in quantity in my area, so I order it in half-gallon and gallon sizes (cheaper than the little tiny, very expensive bottles you'll see in most hobby or art stores).
[snip]
One of the best pieces of advice I can give you is if you want to use any solvent in painting, get artist grade material.

Specifically where do you get half-gallon sized quantities of artist grade turpentine? I have never yet been able to find it in that quantity.

G.L. Hoff
08-28-2002, 11:26 AM
Hi, Noble--

I buy gallon-size turp from Daniel Smith (I think via catalog or telephone only--something to do with selling inflammables over the Internet), and I've had art supply stores order the half-gallon size of Winsor and Newton "English turpentine" (just a fancy name for rectified turp) for me. I'll bet you could get other brands.

Rob Howard on the Cennini Forum might be able to give you some better sources.

Regards

Noble
08-28-2002, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by G.L. Hoff
Hi, Noble--

I buy gallon-size turp from Daniel Smith (I think via catalog or telephone only--something to do with selling inflammables over the Internet), and I've had art supply stores order the half-gallon size of Winsor and Newton "English turpentine" (just a fancy name for rectified turp) for me. I'll bet you could get other brands.

Rob Howard on the Cennini Forum might be able to give you some better sources.

Regards
He said Doak had good quality turp but didn't mention quantities or price. Thanks for the info.

G.L. Hoff
08-28-2002, 05:15 PM
Yeah, Robert Doak sells turp and I'm sure he'd sell it to you in a large size if you wanted to. You have to call him on the phone, tho, since he has no web connection and no catalog. The number is 718-237-1210. Haven't bought anything from him in a few months, so if you do, would you drop me a note regarding price and size?

Thanks.