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gatorcross
05-31-2009, 01:31 PM
HELP! using paint markers with Acrylics (Anime/Pop Art)?

I am just a beginner and have always wanted to dive into acrylic painting. I am a photographer and graphic designer/digital artist so creating fantastic artworks digitally comes easy to me. Although digital art does have its artistic merits, it does not compare to a work made by hand the old fashioned way ... Paint, brush and other tools of the trade.

I love POP ART and ANIME art. Being a beginner, I am having difficulties creating black outlines around objects. It was not until I saw the following YouTube videos that I discovered I could use paint markers or what look like Sharpies to create the perfect black outlines I so desire. (Refer to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXlmkLO4uM&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8mCDGBR47I )

I already contacted the artists at their website's contact email address (usually this is the address they will read most -- potential buyers) and received no response from one and the other one replied but basically told me they don;t want to "give away secrets" ... hee-hee, secrets? ... and denied thy use pens very much (one can clearly see the use of markers on every one of his videos). Well, unless if someone has come up with something truly revolutionary (get a patent!), then I don't think there are any 'secrets" out there. As an example of my own expertise, although I may use learned techniques and approaches that are my own, fundamentally there is nothing that I do in Photoshop that has NOT been taught or can be learned. I am always glad to share tips on Photoshp forums. Of course, although there was no real help offered, I was cordial and thanked the artist for the reply.

QUESTION 1: Are these regular "Sharpie" black markers OR are they special acrylic black markers? Are they paint markers? If they are special, then can you please let me know what they are called and what brands to look for on supply stores like JerryArtoRama, DickBlicks, etc.?

QUESTION 2: If "Sharpies" are being used or can be used, then would I have to get the non-toxic versions? Is this a personal choice for personal safety OR is there another reason (like the "fume" toxic Sharpie will not react well with the water based acrylic undercoat)?

QUESTION 3: In a practice painting, I tried using a "King Size SHARPIE Permanent Marker" and it seemed to work well in creating black outlines to accent areas. However, when I tried to brush on a top-coat glaze on the work, these outlined black marker areas smeared like mascara. Have you ever experienced this? How can this be prevented? Of course, this may be a non-issue if I am not using the correct markers which may be answered in the aforementioned questions.

QUESTION 4: What is the best tool to "sketch" your outline on a blank canvas? In one of the above videos, it looks like the artist uses a Black Marker (perhaps a Sharpie). Is this recommended? I have heard BLACK CHALK or even light pencil is preferable. But I once tried pencil and it was surprisingly very hard to cover it up with subsequent layers of acrylic. What do you use?

QUESTION 5: I like works that are very flat/smooth (little or no textured brush strokes). It is hard to tell with the resolution of the above videos, but it looks like the paint is very smooth and almost lays like watercolor WITHOUT the running. What type of acrylic paint is used to achieve a smooth/flat look? Or can this be achieved with an acrylic medium additive? If so, please be specific as I am a beginner and will use your recommendations as a shopping list.

I would like to thank you in advance for any and all replies. I truly appreciate your help and this forum.

skyeagle
05-31-2009, 02:02 PM
Reply to your question # 4:
I've read and successfully used pencil followed by a spray of fixative. The fixative keeps the pencil from smearing and mixing with the paint. The same can be done with charcoal. Wipe off the excess first, then spray. The other method is to sketch with a light wash. I'm assuming you paint with a full body acrylic as opposed to a water color type approach.
Hope this is helpful for you. I'm clueless regarding your other questions, but hopefully someone will know. There's a lot of knowledge on this site and folks happy to share what they know or have experienced. Hats off to WC!

Raymo
05-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Send off an email to the guys in the video and ask what they used.

idylbrush
05-31-2009, 02:10 PM
You need to use what you need to use to get the job done at times. Sharpie markers are generally not used as they can bleed through layers of acrylic. There are two types of sharpies as well, one is the permanant marker and the other is the paint marker (oil based). Both can be found at places like Staples, or Target.

I have found a refillable marker that I can use india ink or acrylic ink with. Some think even india ink is not advisable with acrylics.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-May-2009/36241-Photo_22.jpg
I found these at Jerry's Artarama.

Copic also makes a fine marker that is archival.

Check out tagging markers or grafitti markers on google. Taggers and grafitti artists often use an acrylic based product. You would buy the empty markers and the ink separately and fill as needed.

I also noted they used brushed acrylic for the outlines on some works. I would use carbon black as it is the more opaque in my opinion. Sometimes several layers are better than one.

Also consider the intent of the work. If illustration, use whatever it takes to get the job done. If you have no intention of making works for sale or profit, do what you please. IMHO, as soon as you sell you have an obligation to use the best materials for the job. (my opinion only and others strongly disagree.)

gatorcross
05-31-2009, 02:21 PM
Send off an email to the guys in the video and ask what they used.
I already contacted the artists at their website's contact email address (usually this is the address they will read most -- potential buyers) and received no response from one and the other one replied but basically told me they don't want to "give away secrets" ... hee-hee, secrets? ... and denied they use markers on outlines very much (one can clearly see the use of markers on every one of his videos). Well, unless if someone has come up with something truly revolutionary (get a patent!), then I don't think there are any 'secrets" out there. As an example of my own expertise, although I may use learned techniques and approaches that are my own, fundamentally there is nothing that I do in Photoshop that has NOT been taught or can be learned. I am always glad to share tips on Photoshop forums. Of course, although there was no real help offered, I was cordial and thanked the artist for the reply.

gatorcross
05-31-2009, 02:52 PM
I have found a refillable marker that I can use india ink or acrylic ink with. Some think even india ink is not advisable with acrylics. I found these at Jerry's Artarama.

Copic also makes a fine marker that is archival.

Check out tagging markers or grafitti markers on google. Taggers and grafitti artists often use an acrylic based product. You would buy the empty markers and the ink separately and fill as needed.

I also noted they used brushed acrylic for the outlines on some works. I would use carbon black as it is the more opaque in my opinion. Sometimes several layers are better than one.


Thank you for the reply. Wow, refillable markers? What are these called and what specific brand / marker do you use (as shown on photo)?

idylbrush
05-31-2009, 03:50 PM
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/Pens-and-Markers/COPIC-Markers-and-Sets/COPIC-Sketch-Marker-Sets.htm

this would be one brand. They have their own inks.

Look here: http://artprimo.com/catalog/markers-c-28.html
http://www.traceypackaging.com/catalog.asp?prodid=435506&showprevnext=1&gclid=CIepkr2f55oCFRz_kgodpA4FBg

gatorcross
05-31-2009, 04:17 PM
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/Pens-and-Markers/COPIC-Markers-and-Sets/COPIC-Sketch-Marker-Sets.htm

this would be one brand. They have their own inks.

Look here: http://artprimo.com/catalog/markers-c-28.html
http://www.traceypackaging.com/catalog.asp?prodid=435506&showprevnext=1&gclid=CIepkr2f55oCFRz_kgodpA4FBg

WOW, thanks for the links. I like the idea behind the empty markers (reference http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/Pens-and-Markers/COPIC-Markers-and-Sets/COPIC-Empty-Markers.htm ). Have you ever used these or empty markers? if so, can I fill them with fluid acrylic paints or do they require special inks?

Also, I suppose i will find out once i receive my order and test it, but will a BLACK copic wide marker cover dry acrylic colors when applied on top (as an outline, for example)?

Thank you

idylbrush
05-31-2009, 05:31 PM
I would tend toward an acrylic ink not a paint. I have not used the copic empty markers but will as soon as my local art supply can get them in.

You have to test them. Each acrylic brand may respond a bit differently.

gatorcross
05-31-2009, 08:48 PM
Reply to your question # 4:
I've read and successfully used pencil followed by a spray of fixative. The fixative keeps the pencil from smearing and mixing with the paint. The same can be done with charcoal. Wipe off the excess first, then spray. The other method is to sketch with a light wash. I'm assuming you paint with a full body acrylic as opposed to a water color type approach.
Hope this is helpful for you. I'm clueless regarding your other questions, but hopefully someone will know. There's a lot of knowledge on this site and folks happy to share what they know or have experienced. Hats off to WC!

Thank you for your great tips. I will try buying some fixative. But I may not like the idea because I assume I would have to carry the canvas outdoors to spray the fixative, let it dry and bring it back inside to start painting. Is my assumption incorrect or is it easier than I imagine?

Thank you

idylbrush
05-31-2009, 09:26 PM
I just went to the sharpie marker web site and to my delight they make a water based archival marker in several tip sizes. Might be worth investigating.

bzglass
05-31-2009, 11:31 PM
Great thread here. Thanks for those links idylbrush. I put in an order for some of those krink paint markers on the art primo site. I too enjoy the look of a bold black outline in som of my work.

gatorcross
06-01-2009, 01:40 AM
I just went to the sharpie marker web site and to my delight they make a water based archival marker in several tip sizes. Might be worth investigating.

Yeah! Thanks for the heads-up. For those of you reading this thread in the future, the link to the water-based sharpies is:

http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/ProductCategory/paint_markers.html

And specifically to the Extra Bold wide point marker is:

http://www.sharpie.com/enUS/Product/Sharpie_Water-Based_Paint_Marker_Extra_Bold.html

As I experiment and try new pens/markers i will update this thread. Thanks again for all the great posts.

Also, any new readers with something to add? Feel free to add to this thread and reply to my original questions if possible. All comments are welcome.

gatorcross
06-01-2009, 02:02 AM
I just found these cool videos to share on You-Tube. Romero Britto is one of my favorite Pop artists and I actually met him when he just had a small art gallery in the Mayfair shops, Coconut Grove, Fl (before his major and warranted rise). His work is inspirational and matches my desired style of bold colors and thick outlines. The following videos show his work (or similar) and really confirm the importance of the marker as an artist's invaluable tool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZZ2hBZjYaY&feature=related

This video almost gets close enough to identify the label on the marker ... Does anyone recognize the brand/make? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJvkUnMhN-4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDLkP3xN5xA&NR=1

History and some scenes showing his technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If5XbAlKoAI&feature=related

Shirl Parker
06-01-2009, 12:37 PM
Copic markers are also available at Dick Blick.

skyeagle
06-01-2009, 01:04 PM
Thank you for your great tips. I will try buying some fixative. But I may not like the idea because I assume I would have to carry the canvas outdoors to spray the fixative, let it dry and bring it back inside to start painting. Is my assumption incorrect or is it easier than I imagine?

Thank you

I have Grumbacher Professional Quality Matte Tufffilm Final Fixative. Yes, there is a caution on the can:

Contains: Acetone [nail polish remover], Xylene
....Prevent buildup of vapors -- open all windows and doors -- use only with cross ventilation.

Words in [ ] are mine.

I do use it outdoors when possible. Otherwise I do it in the utility room and close the door to the rest of the house till the vapors disapate. You may have a room where you can open a window and close the door. It pays to be cautious, but I feel some of these labels are "over kill" to protect the companies from law suits that can be costly for them, win or lose.

gatorcross
06-02-2009, 02:16 AM
This video almost gets close enough to identify the label on the marker ... Does anyone recognize the brand/make? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJvkUnMhN-4&feature=related
[/URL]

OK, so I am quoting myself ... is that against the rules? :-)

I found an answer for my quoted statement. The great guys and "marker" gurus at www.ArtPrimo.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If5XbAlKoAI&feature=related) were able to identify the marker Britto uses. It is the oil-based Uni Paint PX-20. They don't carry the Uni Paint PX-20 at this time but they do have the thicker/wider PX-30 http://artprimo.com/catalog/unipaint-broad-p-829.html . (http://artprimo.com/catalog/unipaint-broad-p-829.html)

They also highly recommnded the Molotow 227 (http://artprimo.com/catalog/molotow-high-solid-227-one-4-all-markers-p-1484.html) and the other Molotow 427 and 627 etc. models.

I placed my order and will report on which pen I found works best. I am very excited to try a new tool!
[URL="http://artprimo.com/catalog/molotow-high-solid-227-one-4-all-markers-p-1484.html"]
(http://artprimo.com/catalog/molotow-high-solid-227-one-4-all-markers-p-1484.html)

Shirl Parker
06-02-2009, 10:16 AM
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Uni+Paint+PX-20&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Shopping results for Uni Paint PX-20
Sanford Uni Paint PX-20 Green Marker $3.29 - OfficeMax
Sanford SAN63614 Uni-Paint PX-20 Oil Base Marker ... $2.39 - BuyOnlineNow
Sanford SAN63613 Uni-Paint PX-20 Oil Base Marker ... $2.39 - BuyOnlineNow

http://www.officemax.com/catalog/search.jsp?freeText=Uni+Paint+PX-20&search.x=37&search.y=8

gatorcross
06-05-2009, 03:32 PM
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Uni+Paint+PX-20&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Shopping results for Uni Paint PX-20
Sanford Uni Paint PX-20 Green Marker $3.29 - OfficeMax
Sanford SAN63614 Uni-Paint PX-20 Oil Base Marker ... $2.39 - BuyOnlineNow
Sanford SAN63613 Uni-Paint PX-20 Oil Base Marker ... $2.39 - BuyOnlineNow

http://www.officemax.com/catalog/search.jsp?freeText=Uni+Paint+PX-20&search.x=37&search.y=8

Cool, shirl, thanks for the post.