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YLCIA
08-15-2002, 07:42 PM
MY IMAGE(S):
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Aug-2002/Picture_0251.jpg


GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: Stairs of Belaggio
Year Created: 2002
Medium: Acrylic
Surface: Canvas
Dimension: 20 by16 inches
Allow digital alterations?: No, please :)

MY COMMENTS:
I think I am about to finish it. The figure will stay the same size:)The colors are not exact sorry to say...The top greens are lighter,/brighter,the bushes on the stairs are darker/ brighter


MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
?

ArtistEnigma
08-16-2002, 03:54 AM
Hmm, looks a bit flat to me.

I think one of the reasons it looks like this is because it seems that all of the focus was put into achieving perspective. Perspective is important but if that's the only thing that is focused on, it takes away from the total piece.

The other thing that makes it look flat to me is the timidity of value. I think if you pushed the values it would do this piece well. The other thing I notice as far as values, shadows, contrast, etc. is that it's hard to tell where the light source is coming from or how strong it is. Certain parts of the painting suggest that the light is coming from the rear (behind where the viewer would be) while another light source is coming from the background somewhere.

The next thing would be the color choice. The buildings seem to be far too light of a color and the values of these colors seem to change very little throughout the painting. If you have the original photo you worked from on your computer still, compare the colors in photoshop or another program that has an eye drop color picker. You can then study the differences in color between the painting and the original photo.

One last suggestion before I end this. Another thing that may help is a depth-of-field effect to add depth.

Good luck!

jerryW
08-16-2002, 07:19 AM
I feel like a tourist, actually there, so much to explore.

I enjoy the composition a lot.

the top half is finished much more strongly than the bottom by having large shapes of compatible color arranged. as opposed to the hundreds of pebbly reflections in the steps.

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 09:55 AM
ArtistAnigma, thank you for viewing and comments. I am very sorry you could not find anything positive in my painting and rest your tired eyes on...



Jerry , thank You for comments. You know you are high in my regards and I really appreciate you opinion.
Do you think if I to add some more color to the foreground it will have more positive effect on overall? Any suggestions from you on it?


Julia

jerryW
08-16-2002, 11:01 AM
I think it is a matter of pattern or granularity, here
colors balance already and shapes are good, but a pattern emerges in the lower half which unballances the painting since no similar granularity occurs above.
I would sacrifice rthe reflective ythmic detail of the surface in the lower half to make it join with the top better.

xixo
08-16-2002, 11:13 AM
Now this is wonderful! I saw your first post of it a while ago, wondering how you were going to do those steps, being your main focus. Superb job, what detail! The colours in those buildings is excellent. Don't touch them! :)
If I were to change anything, it would be the figure in the foreground... Looking at the first step at bottom, it appears that you're almost looking straight down at it, yet the figure appears to be viewed almost from the horizontal, leaning too far forward. I like the weird perspective of the whole piece (as seen in the ref photo too). Maybe I'd enhance the shadows from those little steps running down to the left to give a little more depth, but you've already got plenty of that.
I like this! :clap: Bravo!

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 11:25 AM
Jerry, thank you! I will try to do it. I had a feeling that there was a contradiction in textures but... should go with the gut feeling instead of being stubborn:p




:)Xixo, thank you very much! You are very observant: the photo was taking from the balcony above and the figure I added to break the pattern of bare stairs and from the different view. Hmmmm. I will think on how to change that (if possible).


Julia

busterdog
08-16-2002, 01:03 PM
Julia,
Please don't ask people for a "critique" of your work and then get ANGRY when they give you information that will make you a better painter.

ArtistEnigma was just telling you the truth. The painting is a good start, but will be so much better if you take the advice that ArtistEnigma has shared with you.

We all would like to hear only GOOD things about our paintings, but that's not how we GROW as artists :) The "friends" who are only telling us that our work is GREAT (or telling us what they think we want to hear) are really not helping us at all.

I'd much rather hear about the "bad" things I've done in my paintings so that I can grow as an artist.....and learn.

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 02:20 PM
Busterdog, You lecturing me again!:rolleyes:

I did not get angry. Did not I say thank you?I do appreciate a really constructive advise. I asked for the critique but not for the bushing and a little bit of sarcazm on my part is not an anger but a surprise to learn that I created a worthless work. My painting not a master piece but according to ArtistAnigma it is nothing but a poor attempt on the painting.

Ta-ta,
Julia

ArtistEnigma
08-16-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by YLCIA
My painting not a master piece but according to ArtistAnigma it is nothing but a poor attempt on the painting.


I never said it was a poor attempt on the painting. Just because I didn't smother you in complements doesn't mean I hate the piece. Like busterdog said, don't ask for a critique and get all bummed out because somebody finds flaws and shares them with you. If you plan on furthering yourself in the art world you better be able to handle criticism better. I was only suggesting things that would make it better, not insulting your attempt.

Originally posted by busterdog

ArtistEnigma was just telling you the truth. The painting is a good start, but will be so much better if you take the advice that ArtistEnigma has shared with you.

Thanks.
I'm glad somebody understands what I was trying to get across in my post. I'm the same as you, if somebody criticizes my shortcomings I analyze the info and try to grow from there.

If Julia takes criticism so harshly I don't think that I'll critique her work, and if I do I'd better be dishonest and try and flatter her as much as I can.

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 05:00 PM
ArtistAnigma, You expect me to be very upbeat toward your all negative remarks( no matter helpful or not) but you are offended by my tiny sarcazm note? Interesting...No you did not say it to me literally : "Julia , your paining is poor"...You just point out that:

#1. it looks flat,

#2.I was focused only on the perspective(how do you know that? were you in my head? I did not focus on the perspective , it was a couple of members who told me to pay attention to perspective , and I should,not me...)

#3 The light source was confusing ( And I agree, it does need the work it really was a constructive remark, thank You.)

#4.the colors I use were wrong values.

#4. my painting does not have depth.

So what is left? nothing good worth mentioning? I do understand that you tryed to help, but there is a good Russian saying "the road to Hell is payved with good intentions"...I do not need anybody to flatter me, but I do not want to be unfairly bashed, even if it is in the form of advise.



And who is a Busterdog? I did not see his works around.

Funny for two years I am with WC! I never had any problem with critisizm or otherwise...I really learned. If you will not critique my works ... be my guest.

Now , forget all about nasty me and my not worthy your agitation work and enjoy your life.

Smile::)

and I will do the same : smiles prolong your life.

Ta-ta, my friend

Julia

mattlart
08-16-2002, 05:21 PM
Dear Julia,

Here's my take on the painting,...for what it's worth. Thank you for the entertaining exchange between yourself and Busterdog:)
I like it. Despite all the suggestions,..criticism,......and speculation on how you would handle the steps....they turned out wonderfully. Now,....here's what I suggest you keep in mind for possible future paintings....You might want to focus a tad more on bright sunlight,..and deep, rich shadows. There is a flatness that I see in this piece,...and I'm sure that it would benefit greatly by boldly putting in those shadows,..and yes, exaggerating the sunlit areas.
That's it....good work:)-Scott

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 05:41 PM
Thank You, Scott for you comments and time:)
I guess I over react lately on some of the critiques, It is not good. Ussually I try to keep my sence of humor in tact, after all it is just paint and canvas. At least I created an entertaiment , that is good . I started to get worry that it turns into the material for Debates Forum:p
I think I need to study more about the light and shadows and not be afraid of messing up.I may rework this painting yet to some degree. You use the light and shadow sooooooo wonderfully !
I am green with envy... Just kidding:D

A big, fat thank you, Scott:)

mattlart
08-16-2002, 06:27 PM
Julia,
You are more than welcome. Many of us put our souls and much blood and sweat into our paintings...........And so,..quite naturally, we want to be rewarded with praise for our efforts. And you will. Just keep painting.........:))))) -Scott

Christine Mallaband
08-16-2002, 07:58 PM
Julia I posted a reply to this thread a couple of days ago when you were not so far on with your painting. First of all I would like to say how much I can see it has changed and improved since then, we are all seeing it through our eyes and not yours,
Painting is a learning process, when we criticise it should be constructive, i think that is what people are trying to do, but one person says "do this" and the next says "do that" or "change this"
In the end it has to be your decision, from some of your comments I can tell that you have struggled with this, but this is YOUR work, no one elses. What you need to be is satisfied.
Put the painting away, go on to another peice, maybe look at something with different tonal values, say a bright beach scene, or a harbour, or shady forests. Try and think how you can produce them, then when your mind is fresh, take another look at "The Stairs......" You may decide then to change things or leave them as they are. It is Your Choice.

I think to be an artist you have to always feel- I could have done better, but then I WILL DO BETTER, each time you produce something you are learning, no matter how long it takes, ENJOY yourself, please,

best wishes
Christine:p


PS I have only been on this site a short time, so I'm still learning too!

tiki
08-16-2002, 08:26 PM
I've been watching your progression with this, and didn't know you'd planned to do more. What you've done to the steps is really impressive. I know you've agonized over this, but I think it's been worth it. :)

giniaad
08-16-2002, 09:04 PM
I've come in late...
so much has been said and felt...

but here is my 2 cents
I think you have tackled a very difficult scene
for even the absolutely most talented artist to take on
and have done a very decent rendering of it.

there is so much going on
colors, textures, objects (animate and inanimate)...
to bring it all together
is a major attempt

of course, Jerry has an excelent eye...
and I, again, agree with his observation
about the walk way

still, to convey the walk way's "personality",
(for lack of a better word),
and to do it differently...
again...difficult...

keep painting...and learning...as we all are
smiles to you...

YLCIA
08-16-2002, 10:51 PM
Cristine, thank you for taking your time to comments. You are absolutely correct: we all see it through our own eyes and I try to hear everything from everybody and then process it in my head and try to invision it . If I can and I see the point in it I take it and use it , if I cannot see it then it is no use to try. I also have a stubborn bone:D which gives me hard time sometime. If I to start again I probably would do two paintings out of this one:p : one on the real close up of the cobblestones and another on the rest of the street:) I will try one more thing with this painting and will put it away for awile. As you say to make my brain to think fresh as I will pick it up later. I did that before with some other paintings and it works. I am definetely not satisfied with this painting yet. It just does not "sing" for me. Being a musician I need some "clean" sound and it is not here yet:D Will see...


Tiki, thank You. :)


Giniaad, I love your 2 cents;)
I always try to swallow too big a piece . ..
I sure learn everytime... :p
I sure get experience and start seeing more:hard way ...
:D
Thank you, for taking time to comment to look and comment.

I do appreciate everybody help, seriously.


Julia

ArtistEnigma
08-17-2002, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by YLCIA
ArtistAnigma, You expect me to be very upbeat toward your all negative remarks( no matter helpful or not) but you are offended by my tiny sarcazm note? Interesting...No you did not say it to me literally : "Julia , your paining is poor"...You just point out that:

#1. it looks flat,

#2.I was focused only on the perspective(how do you know that? were you in my head? I did not focus on the perspective , it was a couple of members who told me to pay attention to perspective , and I should,not me...)

#3 The light source was confusing ( And I agree, it does need the work it really was a constructive remark, thank You.)

#4.the colors I use were wrong values.

#4. my painting does not have depth.




Who said I was offended?
First you say that I said that this was a "poor attempt," now you're saying that I've been offended by something that was said sarcastically? (which by the way, I read through your posts again and only found the 'tired eyes' portion to be remotely sarcastic)

First of all, the things you numbered and labeled so well were things that come up in critiques often. I felt that these were the weak points of the painting and I took the time to explain why and how they could be fixed. If I was trying to insult your work I would have just done that and left out anything constructive.

The other thing I should mention is that if I thought that you were a person who wouldn't be able to see these faults and learn from them, I wouldn't have wasted my time and critiqued your work. In other words I'm saying I think you have potential if you keep trying and want to learn.

Originally posted by YLCIA
So what is left? nothing good worth mentioning?

Ok, if all you hope to accomplish by posting to the "Open Critique Forum" is flattery I suggest you might rethink your strategy. There is a forum called "The WC! Gallery" that allows you to do more of a show and tell type of presentation of your work without the fear of constructive criticism. This may be what you're looking for.

Originally posted by YLCIA
...there is a good Russian saying, "the road to Hell is payved with good intentions."

There is also a quote that says:
"I would rather you criticize me and be honest, then for you to flatter me and lie."

YLCIA
08-17-2002, 11:01 AM
Okay, ArtistAnigma, I over reacted.My appologies... Let put it to piece it is not a Debate Forum. I hate conflicts. Sorry , I made an issue over it . Probably my hormones...:rolleyes:

Thank You for understanding.

Have a nice Day and a smile.

Julia

PS.
You are right , if I like this forum I have to deal with all critiques calmly.

Corrie Scott
08-17-2002, 05:18 PM
Just went to 'Bellagio, I changed it' and saw the light.
Looking good.
I must say all of this furore and hormones running around produced in the end. And isn't this what it's all about?
Keep painting everyone

Alice C.
08-17-2002, 09:05 PM
Of course we all know it all a matter of opinion:rolleyes:

If we take all the suggestions that are given it no longer belongs to us:confused:

Who said this or that rule MUST apply? What is being creative all about?:)

If we all painted the same it would truly be boring.
If I can get a feeling from a painting it is successful for me. Can our Art be successful for every one?:cat:

I like the feeling of this painting.:clap: :clap: :clap:

just a thought;)