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TheBaron
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
Greetings And A Warm Welcome to March monthly portrait challenge.

To all please feel free to offer advice if needed? and give praise to each participant as thats what spurs us on :thumbsup:

We hope all fellow... erm! and Lady :-) portrait painters will participate in the portrait challenge set out each month for you.

At the begining of each month a photograph will be chosen for you to paint, also a photograph of a set of lips or eyes for the novice to practice will be presented if you feel you're not advanced enough to commit yourself to a full portrait study.


Your studies can be of your own chosen medium, with the exception of digital work, and there is no time limit as the purpose is for you to gain experience and enjoyment from the challenge so do take your time as a month is a long time. :D

Backgrounds in the portrait are subject to the discretion of the individual but the subject MUST REMAIN as is.

You can ask for help along the way so don't hold back as we will all have some advice and tips and critiques to offer.

Push yourself to the limit and think of it as being in an art classroom.

If you wish to submit photographs, please send a PM to George along with the photograph. The photo will only be accepted if it is of high quality and definition. Photographs may vary from formal to casual, however, please keep in mind copyright law.

This months subject is an Old Masters study,regardless of whom it is has no relevance and is taken as the exercise/challenge.

Please post ALL of your work in this thread from start to finish! Have fun and we look forward to viewing your work.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2009/107353-leighton013.jpg

Magical_Realist
02-28-2009, 06:10 PM
Beautiful choice!

I made a wild guess at the artist's identity (and am now basking in the smug satisfaction of being right). A high-res image of this painting can be found here. (http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=9557&hires=1)

I wasn't able to participate in last month's challenge, but I'll definitely give this one a try.

Netty
03-01-2009, 02:24 AM
I love this one Mr Baron!!!!! :clap: (George) :D Great choice!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will enjoy this challenge very much, thankyou :)

TheBaron
03-01-2009, 09:15 AM
If you brighten the pic in paintshop or similair it will show the outline of the hair in the darkest areas of the background.

Now lets see what you can come up with:D

Dana Design
03-01-2009, 10:05 AM
Superior choice! I'll be painting this one for sure!

doppler
03-01-2009, 08:20 PM
I'll take a crack at this one too ... should be interesting to render an oil painting in watercolour.

doctasi
03-01-2009, 10:17 PM
Count me in.

kadon
03-02-2009, 12:13 AM
Beautiful choice George. Kathy

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 01:13 AM
I thank you Ladies and Gents :D

Gonna try this on a piece of board 19"x14.5" which is actually an old cupboard door which I have a few of.
Actually these are cheap to aquire ie you just go hunting in builders skips:wink2:

Its Laminated on one side and smoothish surface on the other,have gessoed the board on this side with about five layers and is smooth as I can get it so the oils should glide over it no problem.

The wood is actually chipboard but has laminated surrounding edges and is just the perfect size for this composition. :cool:

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 02:06 AM
I have a PM and the person has asked me how to get the dark area of the hair to fade into the background should they attempt to go with it as is?

Basically the hair edges are the same colour as the background and is whats known as lost edges so....

A= Lost edges
B= Soft edges
C= Hard edges

To get the Lost edges use the same colour or near enough as the background and blend them together seamlessy with a sable brush or the softest brush you have.
To get the Soft edges blend the edge again with a soft brush.
Hard edge well this is just your painting brush strokes and left without doing anything to the paint.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Mar-2009/107353-leighton0153.jpg

V-honey
03-02-2009, 12:23 PM
Well I can't paint it, but I'll be able to do it in Graphite which should definetely be fun.

lilbelle
03-02-2009, 02:41 PM
I would love to learn how to paint portraits so I hope it's okay for a beginner to join in. :o
I think this is a lovely reference and I started this as soon as I saw the challenge. I'm working in acrylics on an 8x10 in. canvas and already I wish I had gone larger. It's not looking a lot like her :o . Anyway this is where I am now.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02769.JPG
I think the face is too wide and her eyes aren't right either.

Dana Design
03-02-2009, 03:08 PM
I would love to learn how to paint portraits so I hope it's okay for a beginner to join in. :o
I think this is a lovely reference and I started this as soon as I saw the challenge. I'm working in acrylics on an 8x10 in. canvas and already I wish I had gone larger. It's not looking a lot like her :o . Anyway this is where I am now.

I think the face is too wide and her eyes aren't right either.

It's a great start! You might want to measure the face and convert those measurements to your portrait. But as it is now, it's looking beautiful.

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 03:53 PM
I would love to learn how to paint portraits so I hope it's okay for a beginner to join in. :o
I think this is a lovely reference and I started this as soon as I saw the challenge. I'm working in acrylics on an 8x10 in. canvas and already I wish I had gone larger. It's not looking a lot like her :o . Anyway this is where I am now.

I think the face is too wide and her eyes aren't right either.

How do Lillian

This MPC is for all whoever wish to participate. :)

Acrylics are not the best medium to practice/paint portraits with but from what I can see you're not doing too bad,take your time as this is not a race to see who can finish it first.
It is always best to graph or make measurements on the chosen ground before doing the initial drawing,correct proportions are paramount to getting a good likeness.

Anyway as I said you are doing fine for a first portrait:wink2:

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 06:34 PM
My initial drawing,chipboard 19"x14.5" :eek:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/107353-bod.jpg

kadon
03-02-2009, 08:35 PM
Just a rough outline to get everything in the right place.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/118422-P1010535.JPG

Kathy

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 09:19 PM
The scrumbling in has started:D probably needing two or three layers for the background? shall see on the next layer.

I'm in two minds whether to go for the original skin colour in the source or use my own skin tone colour?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/107353-scrumble.jpg

TheBaron
03-02-2009, 09:20 PM
Just a rough outline to get everything in the right place.
Kathy

good start Kathy,freehand drawn?

Netty
03-02-2009, 09:47 PM
I would love to learn how to paint portraits so I hope it's okay for a beginner to join in. :o
I think this is a lovely reference and I started this as soon as I saw the challenge. I'm working in acrylics on an 8x10 in. canvas and already I wish I had gone larger. It's not looking a lot like her :o . Anyway this is where I am now.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02769.JPG
I think the face is too wide and her eyes aren't right either.


This is a beautiful start Lillian :clap:
She might not be totallly the same in measurment, but I think you have captured her sweet innocence that is in her face. Beautiful skin tones too :)
I do think acrylics is a wonderful medium for portraits!!
Annie.

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 12:43 AM
Not much to tell in the source painting but what I did see in it was most odd...

This portrait is reminiscent of a Bavarian Lady and my recollection of Bavarian ladies is the hair was exactly the same layout on both sides of the forehead,if you look at the source the hair on the viewers left is out of sync with the other side ie its just hanging loose,then came the ribbon on the viewers left shoulder its undone...something was amiss when this portrait was painted?

Wadda think:eek:

kadon
03-03-2009, 12:56 AM
Not much to tell in the source painting but what I did see in it was most odd...

This portrait is reminiscent of a Bavarian Lady and my recollection of Bavarian ladies is the hair was exactly the same layout on both sides of the forehead,if you look at the source the hair on the viewers left is out of sync with the other side ie its just hanging loose,then came the ribbon on the viewers left shoulder its undone...something was amiss when this portrait was painted?

Wadda think:eek:

You could be right about the hairstyle George...about the bow..isn't it just the way the light is catching the front of it as it points towards the centre of torso...just as the other bow is pointingtowards the centre....??? Is it possible that the end of the ribbon from bow on her left is hanging down at the back and the other one hanging down the front????

Kathy

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 01:01 AM
You could be right about the hairstyle George...about the bow..isn't it just the way the light is catching the front of it as it points towards the centre of torso...just as the other bow is pointingtowards the centre....??? Is it possible that the end of the ribbon from bow on her left is hanging down at the back and the other one hanging down the front????

Kathy

The hair was platted at the back of the head in such a manner it kept the sides from coming loose.

The bow nah! don't think it was dangling at the back on the otherside?

I been studying this too much tonight :lol:

kadon
03-03-2009, 01:07 AM
Still getting things in place here and there. Lots to do....right side of her face is next area of work.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Mar-2009/118422-P1010540.JPG




No George....not freehand...marked a few points on the canvas and joined them up....wasn't very hard as I am painting it the same size as it came up on my paper. If I was doing it larger I would draw a graph.

Kathy

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 02:33 AM
Still getting things in place here and there. Lots to do....right side of her face is next area of work.
Kathy

Early days here but forming nicely,what size is it?

lilbelle
03-03-2009, 01:44 PM
Thank you Dana for your comments! I tried measuring but I'm still not sure where I'm off.
George, thank you for the welcome! I know we have a whole month and there is no rush but when I start a painting I tend to finish it fairly quickly. :rolleyes: especially a small one like this :D
Thank you Annie! I haven't had too much trouble with acrylics either :thumbsup: I'm looking forward to seeing yours!

I worked on it some more,
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02781.JPG

Great start George!
Kathy, that is looking beautiful already. Can I ask what colours you used for her lovely green eyes?

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Kathy, that is looking beautiful already. Can I ask what colours you used for her lovely green eyes?
Well done Lillian looks very good.

I'd like to say here at this moment her eyes are an offset grey to faint blue they don't register as grey in paintshop,using the eye dropper tool reveals a most odd colours between purples greys and reds? I kid you not:eek:

Anyway I'm doing mine greyish blue.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2009/107353-eye.jpg

lilbelle
03-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Thank you George for the close-up and colour info on the eye. I certainly don't see the purples and reds either. :confused: I think I will try a blu-ish, green-grey. :thumbsup:

lilbelle
03-03-2009, 07:11 PM
I did some more work on her hair. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02784.JPG

Magical_Realist
03-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Okay--drawing's done:

http://magicalrealist.com/images/paintings/wc_portrait_3mar09.jpg

Canvas, 16 x 20".

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 09:59 PM
Okay--drawing's done:

Canvas, 16 x 20".

Well refined drawing there MR.

You painting it in oils?

Went to paint the eyes in last night on mine and found the viewers left eye is not right,have to fix it before continuing.

TheBaron
03-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Thank you George for the close-up and colour info on the eye. I certainly don't see the purples and reds either. :confused: I think I will try a blu-ish, green-grey. :thumbsup:


No problem.

Those catchlights in the source photos eyes are wrong as well because the viewers left eye catchlight is larger than the viewers right catchlight and it should be the other way round simply because the viewers right eye is nearer to the light.

Anyone think I'm wrong?

kadon
03-04-2009, 04:31 AM
I love your acrylic Lillian.

9" x 12" canvas board George.....and I'm not going to mess about with changing the colour of her eyes after all the work already done....not that anybody minds I'm sure.

I had a darkish grey and put in a touch of ultramarine blue/yellow ochre.

Thank you Lillian and George for your encouragement.....keep feeling I'll mess it up with the next brush stroke:eek: .

Kathy

kadon
03-04-2009, 04:37 AM
No problem.

Those catchlights in the source photos eyes are wrong as well because the viewers left eye catchlight is larger than the viewers right catchlight and it should be the other way round simply because the viewers right eye is nearer to the light.

Anyone think I'm wrong?

What a constructive comment George....would never have thought of it.

Kathy

arnoud3272
03-04-2009, 09:49 AM
Thank you George, you chose a very nice example/challenge.
I have the intention to explore another medium, pen and ink. Every chance that I mess it up, but anyway. Here is the pencil "underdrawing".
Size 15 x 20 cm, Bristol smooth.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-line1.jpg

I think you are right about the hair, George, it does not look logical. Particularly in more linear-ish media.
What about this alternative?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-line2.jpg

TheBaron
03-04-2009, 10:52 AM
Thank you George, you chose a very nice example/challenge.
I have the intention to explore another medium, pen and ink. Every chance that I mess it up, but anyway. Here is the pencil "underdrawing".
Size 15 x 20 cm, Bristol smooth.



I think you are right about the hair, George, it does not look logical. Particularly in more linear-ish media.
What about this alternative?



Doing it this way on mine.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/107353-142886-Biondina-line2.jpg

arnoud3272
03-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Doing it this way on mine.


That looks more balanced indeed, George, thank you.

Cheers,
Arnoud

lilbelle
03-04-2009, 03:14 PM
Thank you Kathy!
Well I think I'm done unless anyone see anything that still needs work. I know I didn't get a great likeness but I think she still has a pleasant looking face anyway. :angel:
The hair isn't as red in real life as it shows here.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02790.JPG

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's progress!

doctasi
03-04-2009, 03:32 PM
Looks fantastic lilbelle. Well done. I've just got my drawing done. 16x20 wood panel. I'm going to do a thin acrylic wash next.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4246.jpg

kadon
03-04-2009, 07:30 PM
Thank you Kathy!
Well I think I'm done unless anyone see anything that still needs work. I know I didn't get a great likeness but I think she still has a pleasant looking face anyway. :angel:
The hair isn't as red in real life as it shows here.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/103642-DSC02790.JPG

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's progress!

I truly love it. Kathy

Grunge
03-04-2009, 09:22 PM
Looks wonderful! I want to play!

Grunge
03-05-2009, 01:02 AM
Not much to see here, but it's a start.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2009/60457-1.jpg

TheBaron
03-05-2009, 08:13 AM
I'm thinking the hair outline as it stands in my painting will look better as it is?

anyone think the same?

Take no notice of the colours of the garments a final layer of more subtle colours will be applied.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2009/107353-bod2.jpg

TheBaron
03-05-2009, 08:20 AM
Looks like this is too easy for those who have submissions at the mo.:D

Looking good all:thumbsup:

MSegev
03-05-2009, 12:41 PM
George, you've picked an absolutely delightful reference this month, thank you!
As for her hair, honestly, my first impression after viewing the reference was of a loose strand, which I thought was charming.

doctasi
03-05-2009, 02:31 PM
Stage Two... Acrylic Burnt Umber background. Cadmium yellow medium, white and a little cadimium red medium for the face, neck and hair. Alizarin crimson, blue and white for the bodice and a little of the same for the blouse or chemise.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4254.jpg

BetsyPriesing
03-05-2009, 03:55 PM
wow great starts already! beautiful reference i agree. I think what you are seeing with the hair on the left is "very wide hair style" which also was in fashion at the time.

Lillibell this is great i can see you were on a roll! I think that you got the whole feeling right for the portrait, great job!

lilbelle
03-05-2009, 05:12 PM
Thank you so much Doc, Kathy, and Betsy for your kind comments!
Grunge, It looks like a delicate start. Is it watercolour? Also what size is it?
George, I also think the hair style puffs out at the sides.
Great progress everyone!

Netty
03-05-2009, 09:48 PM
You have done a really beautiful portrait Lillian,and it is good to see all the progress so far with the others...
I wish I had time ATM to start this challenge, but hopefully in a week or so I will have finished other more urgent things to at lest start!!! I really want to have a go at this one...

Annie.

Roxie Real
03-05-2009, 10:12 PM
I am so far behind, this is all I have done. oil 11x14 canvas Roxiehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2009/129150-100_1397.jpg

TheBaron
03-05-2009, 10:23 PM
I am so far behind, this is all I have done. oil 11x14 canvas Roxie

So far behind Roxie?

Heck there's still 25 days to go :D

Nice skintones forming there Rox,once you have the face outta the way the rest is a doddle.

:thumbsup:

kadon
03-06-2009, 02:44 AM
Labouring on.....and on.....and on.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2009/118422-Second.jpg

Kathy

Striver
03-06-2009, 04:07 AM
All looking good
Les

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 08:26 AM
I've come up with a nice fawn colour for the white tunic? which I believe is the correct colour for this as it wasn't totally white in colour,the shadow colour can be got from...

Naples Yellow
Hookers Green or Prussian Green
Burnt Umber

Mix the Naples Yellow and Hookers Green till you aquire a nice spice green colour or very light turquois colour,then add increments of Burnt Umber till you get the required depth of shade.

:thumbsup:

Will look better blended at the edges but was just a trial run to see what it would look like. :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/107353-bod3.jpg

MSegev
03-06-2009, 10:56 AM
Labouring on.....and on.....and on.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Mar-2009/118422-Second.jpg

Kathy

Kathy, the face and the expression are looking beautiful. Even if it ends up not quite like the face on the reference, it's still a wonderful portrait. Well done, in my opinion.
Mary

MSegev
03-06-2009, 11:03 AM
here's where I'm at, at the moment. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_1.jpg

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 11:06 AM
here's where I'm at, at the moment.

Nice...Very nice.

try and lose the dark edges of the hair into the background if ya can Mary? love the flesh tones.

:clap:

MSegev
03-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Yes, George, absolutely. Wonder if you got any tips on painting folds. Sigh, that's always a painful challenge.

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 01:07 PM
Yes, George, absolutely. Wonder if you got any tips on painting folds. Sigh, that's always a painful challenge.

Mary paint in the darks first where they should be then add the lights and blend the two together like this...

What do you think about the colours?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/107353-bod4.jpg

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 01:28 PM
here's where I'm at, at the moment. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_1.jpg

Mary you said you have trouble with folds? try to make the folds random but at the same time convincible,the adding of dark areas firsts and the lights alongside and either side of the darks will start making it convincing as you add each dark and light,then the blending will make it even more convincing.
Try to copy them as they're on the dress and not sweep them down in a straight manner.
:thumbsup:

MSegev
03-06-2009, 02:10 PM
George, that's a great advice. I'll share the progress, of course. Thanks!

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 02:23 PM
George, that's a great advice. I'll share the progress, of course. Thanks!

No problem Mary.

Try to rplicate the folds in the source even if you don't get it looking like it,it doesn't matter so long as its near enough as it will all come together when the lights are put in.

I really cannot believe that you and there are a few others that have the same problem when it came to painting clothing folds/creases, I just can't take that in as it must be one of the simplest aspects of painting.

Sorry if that sounds awful tis not meant to be:)

Do three squiggly close lines on a scrap piece of canvas and choose a colour and paint the middle squiggly and then lighten that same colour and apply it to the outside squiggly ones wait about an hour or two then blend the colours into eachother with a soft brush or fan brush.

:wink2:

MSegev
03-06-2009, 02:53 PM
George, well, each little fold has its own structure. Look at the reference again, the white shirt is so well done! I'm always amazed by the work of old masters, they must have been so committed. They didn't have the luxuries we enjoy and take for granted today, like a photo-camera or a computer. Makes me wonder how long it took him to paint this particular portrait.
By the way, one of my favorite portrait artists today is Marvin Mattelson. Check out how brilliantly he handles the clothing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/178320-Mattelson_.jpg

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 02:59 PM
George, well, each little fold has its own structure. Look at the reference again, the white shirt is so well done! I'm always amazed by the work of old masters, they must have been so committed. They didn't have the luxuries we enjoy and take for granted today, like a photo-camera or a computer. Makes me wonder how long it took him to paint this particular portrait.
By the way, one of my favorite portrait artists today is Marvin Mattelson. Check out how brilliantly he handles the clothing.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/178320-Mattelson_.jpg
Well Mary I love his work as well,have you noticed that if you stand up sit down move left or right her eyes follow your every move.
Thats what drew me in when I saw that painting.

Oh and them folds are a doddle :D

I'll look up one of my earlier paintings and show you I can achieve them folds in satin cloth...post it later for ya :thumbsup:

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 03:06 PM
Not as good as Marvins but this was just an experiment on Satin folds.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/107353-107353-RIMG0018.JPG

MSegev
03-06-2009, 03:19 PM
George, this is wonderful. You got to admit it's hard work!

TheBaron
03-06-2009, 03:30 PM
George, this is wonderful. You got to admit it's hard work!


Modesty aside Mary..not hard at all.
Personally I thought I made a hash of it,too much going on in the cloth.

Magical_Realist
03-06-2009, 05:27 PM
Thank you to everyone for your kind comments on my drawing! And I love seeing everyone else's progress, given what a slow painter I am.

Unfortunately, when I started painting I realized how off-kilter the drawing was--the left side of her face was too wide, and the perspective on her nose was wrong--so this went through a seriously ugly stage before I got everything set right. It still needs work, especially on the left side of her face and the end of her nose, but at least she doesn't look wall-eyed anymore:

http://magicalrealist.com/images/paintings/wc_portrait_6mar09.jpg

The contrasts are rather harsh, but those will be dealt with as I build up subsequent layers. Since this is acrylic, it's going to be a challenge getting the same soft quality to her face that Leighton achieved in oils, but that challenge was part of why I decided to try this one.

Today I'm going to take a break from her face and work on the folds of her chemise.

kadon
03-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Thank you Mary....I really like the way you've done her hair. I agree...the folds are a pain. Kathy

kadon
03-06-2009, 06:44 PM
Thank you to everyone for your kind comments on my drawing! And I love seeing everyone else's progress, given what a slow painter I am.

Unfortunately, when I started painting I realized how off-kilter the drawing was--the left side of her face was too wide, and the perspective on her nose was wrong--so this went through a seriously ugly stage before I got everything set right. It still needs work, especially on the left side of her face and the end of her nose, but at least she doesn't look wall-eyed anymore:

http://magicalrealist.com/images/paintings/wc_portrait_6mar09.jpg

The contrasts are rather harsh, but those will be dealt with as I build up subsequent layers. Since this is acrylic, it's going to be a challenge getting the same soft quality to her face that Leighton achieved in oils, but that challenge was part of why I decided to try this one.

Today I'm going to take a break from her face and work on the folds of her chemise.

I think this is really looking great...hair, face, folds and all. Lovely work.

Kathy

kadon
03-06-2009, 06:46 PM
The subject has a beautiful softness round the eyes....very elusive. Kathy

Roxie Real
03-06-2009, 09:15 PM
Good work everyone, this is what I have done tonight. Roxiehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/129150-100_1405.jpg

doctasi
03-06-2009, 10:50 PM
Everyone is doing really great work. Today I lightened my portrait with an acrylic wash and began using oil. Many days to go. Doc
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4299.jpg

ThreeWolves
03-06-2009, 11:32 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4483.JPG

This is where I am at so far. I think I have a ways to go on likeness. It is a start anyway. 18 x 24 inches on canson sketch

ThreeWolves
03-07-2009, 12:09 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4484_bak.JPG

It is coming along.

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 01:28 AM
Thank you to everyone for your kind comments on my drawing! And I love seeing everyone else's progress, given what a slow painter I am.

Unfortunately, when I started painting I realized how off-kilter the drawing was--the left side of her face was too wide, and the perspective on her nose was wrong--so this went through a seriously ugly stage before I got everything set right. It still needs work, especially on the left side of her face and the end of her nose, but at least she doesn't look wall-eyed anymore:



The contrasts are rather harsh, but those will be dealt with as I build up subsequent layers. Since this is acrylic, it's going to be a challenge getting the same soft quality to her face that Leighton achieved in oils, but that challenge was part of why I decided to try this one.

Today I'm going to take a break from her face and work on the folds of her chemise.

Looking real good MR. :clap:

There's much to be said about the layering teqnique and it shows when a fine detailed under painting piece is excuted first.
As much as I'd like to use the layering technique I find it tedious and you really do have to have patience when doing it this way.

Striver
03-07-2009, 02:11 AM
Three wolves
You seem to have quite a tilt compared to the picture, is this intentional.
Still a good start.
Regards
Les

ThreeWolves
03-07-2009, 03:29 AM
I think that is just the camera shot. I will need to do better in getting the picture straight.

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 03:40 AM
Last update from me till I have covered soome ground.

Are the folds starting to look convincing? :wink2:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2009/107353-bod5.jpg

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 05:24 AM
Hi everyone,

Very nice work, I like to study it all.

Shaun -
Glad to have company of another monochrome artist.
I think I have a ways to go on likeness Do you mean spiritual likeness or physical? If physical, I read about looking fast-switching between reference and drawing, generating some kind of animated view. This is the high-tec version.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/142886-biondina-cmp.JPG

There is an article (http://wetcanvas.com/Articles2/2921/521/) explaining it in the D&S Forum. It is illustrated with Photoshop, but any image program that supports layers can be used. I use Gimp.

Cheers,
Arnoud

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 05:27 AM
Here is an update on my efforts. Folds are definitely easier in tonal media.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-wip3.jpg

kadon
03-07-2009, 05:30 AM
Marvellous detail Arnoud. Kathy

kadon
03-07-2009, 05:34 AM
Mary, I think you painting is lovely and getting a good likeness....wondered though if her right eye is a bit out of whack. Hesitated to mention it..could be wrong...but your work is so very good. I've restarted mine rather than rework it. Kathy

MSegev
03-07-2009, 05:36 AM
Yep George, carry on. This is such a beautiful reference, that I hope everyone gives it his/her best. Speaking of which, wish my other engagements didn't get in the way.

MSegev
03-07-2009, 05:46 AM
Thank you to everyone for your kind comments on my drawing! And I love seeing everyone else's progress, given what a slow painter I am.

Unfortunately, when I started painting I realized how off-kilter the drawing was--the left side of her face was too wide, and the perspective on her nose was wrong--so this went through a seriously ugly stage before I got everything set right. It still needs work, especially on the left side of her face and the end of her nose, but at least she doesn't look wall-eyed anymore:

http://magicalrealist.com/images/paintings/wc_portrait_6mar09.jpg

The contrasts are rather harsh, but those will be dealt with as I build up subsequent layers. Since this is acrylic, it's going to be a challenge getting the same soft quality to her face that Leighton achieved in oils, but that challenge was part of why I decided to try this one.

Today I'm going to take a break from her face and work on the folds of her chemise.

Wow. This is a fabulous beginning and an amazing drawing! Are you going to go for a good likeness? I would appreciate it very much, if you shared with us your progress step-by-step.

Mary

Roxie Real
03-07-2009, 09:09 AM
I have made some changes for the better I hope. Roxiehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/129150-100_1419.jpg

MSegev
03-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Got a little more done, the month is still young.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_2.jpg

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 09:25 AM
Yay! these are good enough to hang on the wall :thumbsup:

Keep at it Roxy,Mary.

Man I should be painting women in their wedding dress,mines sailing along and I'm quite pleased with the folds in the garment :music::music::music:

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 09:33 AM
I have made some changes for the better I hope. Roxiehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/129150-100_1419.jpg

Ok Rox jst had a little scan over yours...

The nose needs a fix as it looks as though its been broken at sometime:D it starts at the left viewers corner of the eye...can you see it?

MSegev
03-07-2009, 09:46 AM
George, I'll try to get a closer likeness next, for which I'll need your eagle eye. Will you be around?

Roxie Real
03-07-2009, 10:04 AM
Yes George, I see it now and a few more things I need to fix. Thanks, Roxie

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 10:20 AM
Will you be around?

:cool:What times tea?

I may be I may be not? have to go shopping for groceries later.

But will help if I can.

MSegev
03-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Working on likeness. What am I missing?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_3.JPG

Grunge
03-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Thank you so much Doc, Kathy, and Betsy for your kind comments!
Grunge, It looks like a delicate start. Is it watercolour? Also what size is it?
George, I also think the hair style puffs out at the sides.
Great progress everyone!

Sorry I'm so late in getting back to you. Yes, this is watercolour. 9 x 12. I haven't worked on it since my last post but I should be able to get a full day in today.

I'm facinated to watch the progress of everyone's work!

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 11:25 AM
Working on likeness. What am I missing?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_3.JPG
The best thing to do here at this stage is ask someone to transpose this over the source to see where it needs tweaking...Hey! Arnoud are you about? can ya layer this over the original. :thumbsup:

My guess would be the eyes that are throwing it off both eyes on the source if you look have a tendancy to peak on the upper eyelids center.

Grunge
03-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Working on likeness. What am I missing?

I think just bring the hairline down a smidge on the left side and maybe check the line on the lower lid on the left. I thought she had more white under the iris but from my little 3 x 4 (or whatever size it is) print I can't tell. Otherwise you seem to have really hit your mark!

TheBaron
03-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Mary have to go out now but had a tweak of the painting and it looks as if it is the eyes...if look at this tweak it shows a considerable difference just by darkening the pupil and brightning the catchlight although this is one eye the other should be done the same.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/107353-178320-march_challenge_3.JPG

MSegev
03-07-2009, 12:41 PM
George, thank you, you got that exactly right, "both eyes on the source if you look have a tendancy to peak on the upper eyelids center". As for "darkening the pupil and brightning the catchlight", I'm afraid the photo is a bit misleading, since the light bluish glow from the window is not present in the painting. "Layering" could be a good way to trace line errors, wish I knew how it's done. The mouth/nostrils area and the lower ear could be slightly skewed as well. The girl on the reference can't possibly be over 15 and it's so easy to go way off age-wise in a painting.

MSegev
03-07-2009, 12:46 PM
I think just bring the hairline down a smidge on the left side and maybe check the line on the lower lid on the left. I thought she had more white under the iris but from my little 3 x 4 (or whatever size it is) print I can't tell. Otherwise you seem to have really hit your mark!
There are definitely a few adjustments to be made, including the hairline and the lower lid. I really appreciate your comments.
Can't wait to see your progress, glad you've joined the "challenge"!

Mary

Grunge
03-07-2009, 01:45 PM
Thanks Mary! I'm really excited to be included in this. Here's an update. Again, not much but I'm trying to build slowly. I have a tendency to rush and spoil things.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/60457-2.jpg

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 02:09 PM
Hi Mary, George,
I am back looking. Glad to oblige in showing the trick. However, just a .jpg copy does not work very well for the small differences. The biggest help is when you can change the relative brightness of the layers rapidly, to get some animation effect. Also in the active program, you can try out different sets of coinciding points.

In this particular case, the texture of your canvas - I assume, or is it a scanner artifact? - is rather distracting.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/142886-march_challenge_cmp.JPG

Cheers,
Arnoud

MSegev
03-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Lovely so far, T. Thank you for posting it! You're right in building it slowly, there's really no need to rush things. I kind of jumped into it despite my busy schedule (because this is fun, the other stuff is "making a living"). Portrait challenges are a good opportunity to improve our skills.

MSegev
03-07-2009, 02:42 PM
Wow Arnoud, this is an awesome trick. I certainly notice a few errors I've made, although can't see the mid-face clearly. Thanks for taking the time and explaining the method, but I'm afraid it's over my head.
The painting is oil on stretched canvas.

Mary

Striver
03-07-2009, 03:19 PM
Arnoud
Have recently got photoshop & elements, also have an old tablet, So have a steep learning curve if i live long enough with the few grey hairs i have. Downloaded that article for a start. so will have a go later.
Puzzled about finding the vanishing point for the perspective on portraits?
Is there another article somewhere on this, seems important. wonder if the old masters worked that way, cant imagine they did.
Obliged to you
Enjoy
Les

Grunge
03-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Still painting...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/60457-3.jpg

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 06:04 PM
although can't see the mid-face clearly. Thanks for taking the time.

Mary
You're welcome!
I did not succeed in converting your image to a clean line drawing because of that kinda moire effect. I tried something else: print your picture, trace with a ballpoint and scanning.
This better? When "animating" I saw the biggest problem is in the nose: a tad too long, and not broad enough towards our left.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/142886-march_challenge3_cmp.jpg

This trick is very simple, if only someone shows it IRL next to you at the computer. It is just difficult to explain.

Cheers,
Arnoud

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 06:27 PM
have a steep learning curve if i live long enough with the few grey hairs i have. Downloaded that article for a start. so will have a go later.
Puzzled about finding the vanishing point for the perspective on portraits?
Is there another article somewhere on this, seems important. Hi Les,

As I said in the reply to Mary, it is simple once you understand - it is as easy as scaling down or enhancing the contrast.

Perspective of a portrait? Don't know any article on it, but I would not bother. As the sitter is normally in the middle of the picture - more or less - it is a one-point perspective and the VP is behind the sitter. As to the height of the VP - aka the eye level -, IMO you just look and you will "feel" where the artist has decided that the eye of the looker is.
In the books of Loomis, there is a lot on perspective of people in a landscape or in a room, but as far as portraits go, that would only apply to a "royal" portrait.

Cheers,
Arnoud

dcorc
03-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Puzzled about finding the vanishing point for the perspective on portraits?

Think about it in terms of sticking the head in a cardboard box, Les :) - reduce it to simple forms, boxes, treat those in terms of perspective (most usually it's going to be 2-point perspective, for a 3/4 view portrait). Work that up as constructive anatomy.

For two point perspective, remember the horizon-line is at your eye-level, which is usually going to be the sitter's eye-level too - and remember if you are setting up vertical planes for the front and side of the face, these are at 90 to each other, which is going to mean that one or both of the vanishing points is going to be off the edge of the canvas, for a 3/4 view.


Dave

arnoud3272
03-07-2009, 06:45 PM
Hi Dave, Les,

By second thoughts, you are right Dave, 2-PP.
That said, I would still say don't bother. Only engineers and architects (well, and teachers of course) will see when the perspective of something round-ish is off.

Cheers,
Arnoud

dcorc
03-07-2009, 07:03 PM
I would still say don't bother.

...and I'd largely agree with you. If you are drawing/painting heads where the structure is seriously out of whack, then obviously this will provide a way of correcting for that - but if it looks right, it is right. Most of the time, just being aware of it as an issue is likely to be sufficient :)

Good observational drawing (see Tony Ryders figure drawing book, for example) should generally get you there for portraits from life or from ref photos, though a bit of experience in constructive approaches (Loomis heads) is good background experience.

Dave

kadon
03-07-2009, 07:18 PM
This trick is very simple, if only someone shows it IRL next to you at the computer. It is just difficult to explain.
Cheers,
Arnoud

Would be a wonderful form of correction Arnoud to be able to use this trick.

It's like most things (for me at least) 'cos when I see how a thing is done...it really sinks in. One 'sees' things in picture form. No books are able to describe it with words (as you say).

Kathy

Striver
03-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Dave Arnoud Cheers
As I thought, one can get to technical on a simple portrait, so the object is to make it look right.
Arnoud, wonder if you have a way to adjust either the background or frontpiece to a common mark. Found if i did have not both items excat size twas a slight problem. Ability to twitch either would be a benefit when overlaid.
Cheers
Les

kadon
03-07-2009, 07:40 PM
Man I should be painting women in their wedding dress,mines sailing along and I'm quite pleased with the folds in the garment :music::music::music:

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:evil: :evil:

Grunge
03-07-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm cleaning up for the day. Here's where I've stopped. she seems to have aged about 10 years.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/60457-5.jpg

kadon
03-07-2009, 09:21 PM
Still looks pretty young to me T. Kathy

Grunge
03-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I don't know. Maybe it's all that white hair. How's yours coming?

doppler
03-07-2009, 09:32 PM
Well ... she is finished. As far as I can go before I start to fiddle ... more.
A3 Arches Cp and Rembrandt watercolours.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/141006-Biondina-wc-wc.jpg
Still having problems with wavy hair.

As an addendum thought I'd add in the progress shots ... purple underpainting - alizarin and cobalt blue. Texture provided by salt in the background, 300grit sandpaper on the bodice.... after the paint was dry.:rolleyes:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/141006-Bio1.jpg
Next the sunburned look ... wash of alizarin over the face and other pink bits....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/141006-Bio2.jpg
Then the orange phase ... burnt sienna washed over the face ...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/141006-Bio-3.jpg
The vest has a wash of permanent red violet/cobalt over it. It was sanded again after it dried.
Background needs some attention now ... sepia and then a deep mixed purple in separate coats with salt thrown on for good measure. This is the sepia stage ...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/141006-Bio4.jpg
Then time to do the eyes (like uncross them), hair and detailing until enough was enough! :)

kadon
03-07-2009, 09:36 PM
T..I scrapped mine and started again. I'm doing a bigger face and less (much less:evil: ) torso. I just love concentrating on faces...it takes most of my time.

Kathy

Grunge
03-07-2009, 09:49 PM
doppler, that is beautiful. I love the eyes. and the colour of your tunic is wonderful! Great job!

Kathy, (drumming my fingers on the table) well, okay, if you must. but I liked where you were going with the first start. She was very cute.

Peace out!

kadon
03-07-2009, 09:59 PM
Cute...UGH! You are so right T. The reference is far from cute...so now you know why I started again....However, I thank you for the intended compliment.:D Kathy

Roxie Real
03-07-2009, 10:26 PM
I fixed her nose George...I think this is all I can do. Everyone else's look great. Roxiehttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/129150-100_1431.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/129150-100_1432.jpg

Magical_Realist
03-07-2009, 10:34 PM
As much as I'd like to use the layering technique I find it tedious and you really do have to have patience when doing it this way.Oh, it definitely can get tedious. Working out the drawing and values like this is very mechanical; it isn't until I start adding color that I get back to following my intuition and making things up as I go along and doing the really "creative" stuff. But I listen to audiobooks and podcasts while I'm working, and that helps keep the troublemaker-monkey part of my brain engaged so the diligent worker-bee part can get its job done.

I started painting this way because I liked the precision of it (plus, nobody else at art school could do it). But I've continued doing so on and off for the last 20 years for a rather unexpected reason--I'm nocturnal. I'm at my most productive between 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM, which is not good when working with color. So I work through the night on monochrome underpaintings, then work on the color by daylight.

Are you going to go for a good likeness? I would appreciate it very much, if you shared with us your progress step-by-step.I'm going to try to get her as close to the original as I can. And I'm taking pictures as I go, so I'll either post a detailed step-by-step here or on my blog after I'm done.

The problem I have with writing tutorials is that while the underpainting stage is easy enough to describe, the addition of color is not. I'm such a stone-cold sober rationalist while working on the underpainting, but once I start adding color the decision-making is more like a series of hunches and wild guesses strung together, and I don't even remember why I did certain things (or even, exactly, what I did). It's as if I have the line-and-value part of my brain and the color part of my brain, and they speak separate languages, work separate shifts, and never, ever meet. So I hope I can come up with something coherent...:lol:

doctasi
03-07-2009, 11:04 PM
About halfway done.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4349.jpg

kadon
03-07-2009, 11:23 PM
Looking forward Magic Realist to seeing your step by step work. Kathy

kadon
03-08-2009, 04:26 AM
This is where I'm at with my second attempt...much still to do..

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/118422-Picassa_image.jpg

Kathy

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 07:50 AM
I knew that it would be a tedious part of the portrait...the middle of the white tunic ie its closely formed folds:(

We shall just have to endeavor.:rolleyes:

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Any updates? :wave:

Roxie Real
03-08-2009, 02:02 PM
Yes, did you see that I fixed her nose? Roxie

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm cleaning up for the day. Here's where I've stopped. she seems to have aged about 10 years.



Looking good Theresa.

I see you have the peaking of the eyes correct at this stage,seems some of us where a bit blind to this part..mistakes can be corrected though.

:thumbsup:

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Yes, did you see that I fixed her nose? Roxie

I did Rox,I also saw that you done the hair not entirely to the letter..any reason for this?

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 02:26 PM
About halfway done.


Work on them eyes Doc as its looking good...its the eyes that bring it altogether as there is not much shadow work to be done on her face so.

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 02:29 PM
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:evil: :evil:

:music::music: :music: :D

Grunge
03-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Baron, Thanks! I'll admit I'm not sure which part you mean by "peaking" but I'm thinking that puppy dog shape. I did make the mistake of working on the eyes while company had just arrived and the puppy was going crazy and everyone walk talking and bumping my table...had some trouble with the eye on the left but I hope to fix it. Also, after finishing I read through the whole thread again, trying to figure out whose painting is whose and I hit on the link magic provided to the high res version of the painting. OMG!! I can really see what is going on with the eyes now. So I'll definately be doing some tweaking.

Kathy, looking much better. I think you've got a much better skin colour going this time. I'm probably leaning a bit too much towards pink and I find myself relying on a tiny print rather than my monitor, but I'll change over today.

Doc, looking great! The eyes are marvelous!

Okay, going shopping and will be back later to paint.

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 03:08 PM
Here's my update,folds done...will have to go over a couple as they're too sharp also a few pencil lines still showing but I'm happy with the way they have turned out.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Mar-2009/107353-bod7.jpg

TheBaron
03-08-2009, 03:45 PM
The problem I have with writing tutorials is that while the underpainting stage is easy enough to describe, the addition of color is not. I'm such a stone-cold sober rationalist while working on the underpainting, but once I start adding color the decision-making is more like a series of hunches and wild guesses strung together, and I don't even remember why I did certain things (or even, exactly, what I did). It's as if I have the line-and-value part of my brain and the color part of my brain, and they speak separate languages, work separate shifts, and never, ever meet. So I hope I can come up with something coherent...:lol:



Anyway you're doing a nice job here MR :thumbsup:

Roxie Real
03-08-2009, 04:44 PM
George, I just liked the hair better this way. Guess I should have done it just like the photo.... maybe I will. Roxie

arnoud3272
03-08-2009, 04:56 PM
Hi,

This thread shows a steady stream of very hard work - and with awesome results. I love it, thanks for hosting again George.

Here is my next update. I don't seem to have much advanced, but I drew the new area 4 or 5 times, on copies of the previous wip, before getting the courage to commit it to the good paper.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-wip4.jpg

Thank you for looking.

Grunge
03-08-2009, 09:39 PM
Here's an update. Looking a bit like Marilyn now.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Mar-2009/60457-6.jpg

Grunge
03-09-2009, 12:47 AM
My last for the evening. Darn flash is washing out my colours. I'll have to get an outdoor photo for the finish.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Mar-2009/60457-7.jpg

kadon
03-09-2009, 12:55 AM
Coming along beautifully T. Kathy

Grunge
03-09-2009, 01:09 AM
Thanks Kathy. I think this is my best work to date. It's nice having someone else pick my colours for me. In my last painting the flesh is rather orange compared to this one. also I've noticed I've changed my technique a bit over the last two paintings. I didn't used to mix colours in small batches. Now I'm mixing bits on a white plate. I think it has really helped me to develop volume. It's a bit hard to see here, but what I see before me has quite a bit more colour.

Now lets see how you are doing!!

Peace out!

kadon
03-09-2009, 01:37 AM
Boy T...can't get past you can I???? Thanks for sharing your process..I saw your website which is great and could use a few tips. Am working on the left side of her face...especially the top (her right) forehead..will post soon.

Kathy

kadon
03-09-2009, 04:52 AM
Oops....deleted this.

ALBuslovich
03-09-2009, 08:39 AM
Wow, you're fast and looking all very nice. I will try to do this portrait too, hopefully in the next days.

TheBaron
03-09-2009, 09:43 AM
Hmmmm! Leighton sure did make a couple of mistakes in this portrait and I've replicated one or two instead of using my artistic licence...

The velvet outer garment on the viewers left sweeps up the chest in an 1/4" round arc were as the viewers right sweeps up in a sharper arc.

:mad::mad::mad:

Grunge
03-09-2009, 10:49 AM
Hey Kathy, I would be happy to assist. Will check back in about 9 hours... sorry, we do have a bit of a time difference.

TheBaron
03-09-2009, 12:37 PM
My last for the evening. Darn flash is washing out my colours. I'll have to get an outdoor photo for the finish.


Quite stunning at the moment Theresa.

Flash! hold/tape a single piece of tissue paper over the flash,this will dampen the intensity of it and at the same time give enough light source to illuminate the photograph.

Anyone with a camera that has a N(Natural) & N+Flash(Natural+Flash)setting on their camera should give this setting a try on Tungsten lighting(Inside lighting) as thats what my setting is and its near enough to the colour of the painting.

maw-t
03-09-2009, 03:55 PM
WOW I am so impressed with the portraits! :clap:
This is a start.. well, more than that .. but not nearly finished... I free handed & shouldnt have.. may start over with a graph... or may try to correct this as I keep going.. It is pastel on sanded paper Dark paper & hard to cover!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/76639-port3.jpg

doctasi
03-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Thank you Grunge, your painting is looking great. And thank you George, I agree with what you said. I'm at this point, trying to get the shapes right and everything painted in. Then, I'll start on more detail.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4362l.jpg

maw-t
03-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Still trying ...

Doc that is looking great! & Mary.. wow!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/76639-port4.jpg

ThreeWolves
03-09-2009, 09:25 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4489.JPG

I fixed the eye, mouth and ear. This is what I have got. I still don't think I have the right shape for the eye's. I don't see the likeness. I am pretty sure they are in the right spot though.

Peace Profound and many blessings
Shaun

Grunge
03-09-2009, 09:35 PM
Quite stunning at the moment Theresa.

Flash! hold/tape a single piece of tissue paper over the flash,this will dampen the intensity of it and at the same time give enough light source to illuminate the photograph.

Anyone with a camera that has a N(Natural) & N+Flash(Natural+Flash)setting on their camera should give this setting a try on Tungsten lighting(Inside lighting) as thats what my setting is and its near enough to the colour of the painting.

Thank you very much! But there is still time for me to screw it up. I am so glad there isn't much going on with the background! You have no idea how happy that makes me.Great idea on the flash! I'll give that a try on my next shot.

maw-t
03-09-2009, 09:47 PM
More work on this... am thinking of letting her hair fall over that ear!http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/76639-oldmast.jpg

Grunge
03-09-2009, 11:18 PM
Lovely Maw! Your colours are really bringing life to this piece.

Grunge
03-10-2009, 12:07 AM
I've got nothing to say. Same thing I said yesterday. I did try the tissue over the flash. and then I tried the Tv setting. not sure if it's tungstend (sp?) but I went with that shot.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/60457-8.jpg

ThreeWolves
03-10-2009, 01:36 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4490.JPG

It was interesting doing hair. All these years as an artist and I never really learned to draw. It was always abstract stuff. Using the layer process to get acuracy really helped. Thank you. Great job with all the portraits in here. I do feel like a newbie. HeHe.

maw-t
03-10-2009, 02:07 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/76639-por1.jpg Well I'm still at it.. and making slow progress.. that ear needs my attention still UGH.. Can I just bring the hair over it, sir Baron?.. I also got the eyes too close & well lots more Im sure is off... Will have another go tommorrow maybe...

Grunge thank you! I am loving yours! Very classical.. she is beautiful!

maw-t
03-10-2009, 02:12 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4490.JPG

It was interesting doing hair. All these years as an artist and I never really learned to draw. It was always abstract stuff. Using the layer process to get acuracy really helped. Thank you. Great job with all the portraits in here. I do feel like a newbie. HeHe.

Stay with it... I never learned to draw either so that makes it take longer... I love abstract, but mine are horrendous!

ThreeWolves
03-10-2009, 02:58 AM
Thank you for the kind words T.

MSegev
03-10-2009, 03:33 AM
Got only a couple of minutes before going to work. Be back later with more comments. (Lots of very nice additions to comment on).

T., wow! I absolutely love your delicate style. I think the painting is coming along beautifully. Many thanks for posting your progress, it's a joy to watch.

This is my update from saturday. I'm not happy with it, so I'm starting a head study.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_5.jpg

kadon
03-10-2009, 03:56 AM
I knew that it would be a tedious part of the portrait...the middle of the white tunic ie its closely formed folds:(

We shall just have to endeavor.:rolleyes:


:music: :music: :music: :D :D :music: :music:

Kathy

kadon
03-10-2009, 04:35 AM
I know what you mean Grunge T (Twp T's on thread)..My photos just look different to the painting...oh well...here goes with latest effort....much more to do yet....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/118422-Portrait.jpg

Kathy

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 06:24 AM
Got only a couple of minutes before going to work. Be back later with more comments. (Lots of very nice additions to comment on).

T., wow! I absolutely love your delicate style. I think the painting is coming along beautifully. Many thanks for posting your progress, it's a joy to watch.

This is my update from saturday. I'm not happy with it, so I'm starting a head study.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_5.jpg

Do you you know where the problems lie Mary?

I do:)

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 06:53 AM
Eye all

Some of you have got it into your head that the right viewers eye has a drop near one corner and this is going to throw your likeness off slightly?

The bottom corner eye lid does not drop,it does give that illusion it has but if you enlarge it you'll find a different perspective.

It actually sweeps up as an eye socket should do and its the skintone under the eye lid thats giving the illusion drop.

This is why I left my painting of the face till last because I looked at the face and found something wrong with it but could not put my finger on it at first glance so immediatly started on the lower shoulders area ie the dress.

With me now wanting to start the face I had to spend sometime observing the facial fearures and it was this close observing found the illusion to be that of the eye.

As you can see below closup it looks normal,now take a look at it on normal viewing from the reference. :eek:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/107353-107353-eye.jpg

Grunge
03-10-2009, 10:48 AM
This is my update from saturday. I'm not happy with it, so I'm starting a head study.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_5.jpg
Not happy with it???!!! THIS IS GREAT!!!

Grunge
03-10-2009, 11:49 AM
I know what you mean Grunge T (Twp T's on thread)..My photos just look different to the painting...oh well...here goes with latest effort....much more to do yet....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/118422-Portrait.jpg

Kathy
I have printed up copies of where you are at and the original painting. You are really not that far off. It is really coming along nicely. I do want to quickly mention that your neck and chest are not long enough so don't work up the clothes just yet. Will write a longer response after work today.

And if it helps, I volunteer to be "Theresa" rather than T.

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:27 PM
More work on this... am thinking of letting her hair fall over that ear!

That's very interesting. You seem to get the values just right. Perhaps what's needed is to correct the drawing. I've never worked with pastel, it must be very difficult.

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:31 PM
It was interesting doing hair. All these years as an artist and I never really learned to draw. It was always abstract stuff. Using the layer process to get acuracy really helped. Thank you. Great job with all the portraits in here. I do feel like a newbie. HeHe.

Have you tried the grid method? It could be a good way to get the shapes right.

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Do you you know where the problems lie Mary?

I do:)

George, the eyes are definitely wrong, but not only. I've fixed the eyelids and the chin since, and it's still off. The more I worked on it on Saturday, farther away I drifted. Very strange. Getting a reasonable likeness on this one turned into a "challenge" alright!

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:38 PM
I know what you mean Grunge T (Twp T's on thread)..My photos just look different to the painting...oh well...here goes with latest effort....much more to do yet....



Kathy

I know how you feel. Wish you a lot of patience and luck!

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Not happy with it???!!!

T., I was trying to get a reasonable likeness on Saturday and the more I worked on it, the worse it got. I'll let it rest a little, then see why I see something different each time. Odd!

Striver
03-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Three Wolves
yes, try thr grid method, assuming you have a print copy to start and check. Also if you have a Black & white print of the head only to the size your painting, you can use tracing paper of the edges and check over your work, a pencil thickness in portraits seems like a mile out sometimes.

Perservere, you are doing good.
Kind regards
Les

MSegev
03-10-2009, 01:46 PM
Thank you Grunge, your painting is looking great. And thank you George, I agree with what you said. I'm at this point, trying to get the shapes right and everything painted in. Then, I'll start on more detail.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Mar-2009/135953-IMG_4362l.jpg

The portrait looks beautiful. As for getting a good likeness, it seems quite tricky on this one, for some reason

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 02:18 PM
George, the eyes are definitely wrong, but not only. I've fixed the eyelids and the chin since, and it's still off. The more I worked on it on Saturday, farther away I drifted. Very strange. Getting a reasonable likeness on this one turned into a "challenge" alright!

Ok here's what I found...

Try and get the shadows of the lips right,the eye as I stated in my post sweeps up but does give the impression its hanging down at its corner and a few have done this mistake.
The nose is not rounded off in your portrait at the nostril and is too sharp on the bridge.
Other than that its :clap::D

MSegev
03-10-2009, 02:26 PM
See what I mean, George? I'm thinking perhaps I'm getting a distorted image from the monitor. I should have printed it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/178320-march_ch_1.JPG

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 02:46 PM
See what I mean, George? I'm thinking perhaps I'm getting a distorted image from the monitor. I should have printed it.

If I can get it to look like her in Paintshop then it can be done on Canvas:D

What I did is pushed the lower lid up a touch,darkened the pupils,made the eye catchlights whiter and the skin highlights slight lighter...
I'm sure you'll agree its as near a damn likeness you'll get.

The darkening of those pupils has enhanced it much better but you don't want this?

One more thing that will confuse us is the skintone colour,the source has not been well looked after so therefor its age has deteriated the colours so this(your painting) is basically very near the targets likeness Mary

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/107353-178320-march_ch_1.JPG

MSegev
03-10-2009, 02:56 PM
It looks better now, George, you're a genius!

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 03:02 PM
It looks better now, George, you're a genius!

If I've learnt anything about portraiture its the eyes that are the heart of a portrait,ya get these wrong and all hell breaks loose :D so deepen those black pupils and brighten their catchlights and watch the tranformation evolve with the aid of slight touch ups here and there.

David Baker
03-10-2009, 03:07 PM
WOW MARY, YOUR DOING GREAT. GEORGE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. I WISH I WOULD OF HAD THE TIME TO DO THIS MONTHS PORTRAIT.
DOING GOOD GEORGE.


DAVIDS HOME PAGE. http://www.freewebs.com/davidspaintings/

MSegev
03-10-2009, 03:12 PM
It's really amazing what a small change can do. The face suddenly came to life! Thanks for being around, I was beginning to think this portrait was doomed.

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 03:17 PM
It's really amazing what a small change can do. The face suddenly came to life! Thanks for being around, I was beginning to think this portrait was doomed.

I do notice one or two other small details that you have not corrected but I'll leave those to your disgression,I'll give you a clue though...they are not in the source;)

MSegev
03-10-2009, 03:23 PM
Don't know George, but you gave me food for thought.

maw-t
03-10-2009, 03:36 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/76639-ladybaron.jpg Mary, very impresssive!!! I am done picking at this.. I started with a not so great fondation & learned that if I want a true likness... good drawing & correct placement of features MUST be there from the beginning! I may give it another go.. some day.. ;)

doctasi
03-10-2009, 03:54 PM
maw-t, I really like it. I like your style and colors.

lilypads
03-10-2009, 07:01 PM
Decided to jump over from the watercolor forum and take part in the March challenge. Hope the colors are right, as I'm working from a laptop. Painting is 12" x 16" on arches 140 lb. cold press.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/34887-challenge.jpg

Netty
03-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Lovely Lilypads, your watercolour version is very soft and delicate.

I love working form a laptop too, and have found it difficult to start this one as mine is out of action at the moment. Till next week anyway, then I hope to post something as this is a gorgeous picture to paint.

T, you did a good job with the pastels, I like your style in how you layer them down :)

Annie

kadon
03-10-2009, 08:33 PM
Suits me T....not to worry about the clothes. Kathy

TheBaron
03-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Don't know George, but you gave me food for thought.

3 problems pertain to that right viewers eye.

1. That crease below the eye needs to be softened as it looks like a scar.
2. The tear duct needs to come to a point,look at the source and look at your painting.
3. At the opposite end of the eye on your painting it comes to a sharp point whereas on the source its slightly rounded off.

If you look at these areas closely you should see the discrepencies :thumbsup:

kadon
03-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Suits me T....not to worry about the clothes. Kathy

You are quite right T-G...thanks.

Grunge
03-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Suits me T....not to worry about the clothes. Kathy
Finally! A chance to sit down and write this out. Hopefully this will be of some help and also serve to show you that you really are doing quite wonderful!
First have a look side by side at his vs. yours.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/60457-1.jpg
Really pretty close. A couple of things that jump out at me (and I'll refer to left and right of the painting rather than her left and right) the edge of the face on the left side lacks that dip in towards the eye. Easy fix. Bring your core shadow in here. Also, don't let the eyebrow on the left curve around the the eye at the end, but rather let it fall off the face. this will open up that upper lid area and help things look right. shorten the eyebrow on the right side.

the lower eyelid on the left has a funny bobble due to the brown line running along the edge of the lid. put that line on the outer edge of the lid rather than the inner edge.

The eye on the right...the curve on the upper eyelid should be more towards the left. Look at the original. the curve of the crease of the eyelid does not follow the curve of the edge of the lid. I think you can make this adjustment without disturbing the iris, but don't make the mistake I did and go too dark with the lashes.

Shadows that will help you...take that frogs belly on the underside of her chin and turn it into the shadow on her neck. You'll have to cut in a little with the backround to get the shape right.

Add the shadow on the outside of her nostril on the right side. Not on the existing nostril, but next to it. the nose is looking really good but adding this shadow will make the nostril fuller. then adjust the shadow area that runs onto her cheek from the nose. It will need to be wider once the nose becomes wider at the nostril. Then you'll also notice that the mouth needs to be a little wider on the right side and a little more full.
(also, looks like you are missing the other nostril altogether. If you haven't taken a look at the super delux version of this painting, check the link that magic gave. I believe it's in post two. I found it so much easier to see what is going on with this painting!!!)

Now take a look at the tones of the two paintings: Not bad! Not bad at all!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/60457-2.jpg
In your painting you can see the the colour in the eye on the left appears to be substantially brighter than the one on the right, however that is the shadow side of the face. And As Baron has pointed out, darkening your pupils will help the eyes. Also I think you could perhaps englarge the pupil on the left side a tab. It may be that the pupil is causing the problem and not the iris at all. You'll have to make the call on that one.

Overall you can see that the tones look really pretty good!
last, take a look at your overlay. here your painting is providing all the colour, while the original is providing quite a bit of tone. Not too shabby! Look at the neck line here and the edge of the face on the left. this should help you get an idea of what you've done right and where you can make adjustments.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/60457-3.jpg

Well, I'm sorry, I feel like I've had a lot to say here and I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds. I really think you are doing well and hope you don't lose heart and start over again. this one is worth the finish!!

kadon
03-11-2009, 01:00 AM
Wow! This is so good of you T-G. No, you have not overstepped the bounds at all! You have gone to a lot of trouble and I appreciate it. I have been working on some of those areas you have pointed out and will post it again before I go into the details of the above.
Trouble with me is that I sometimes have problems sorting out what is said....(a REAL observer learner...if you know what I mean.) Tick them off perhaps?????

Perhaps you will see that I have already done some (or all?) of them.

If not do feel free to continue your appraisal...or point out in your summation the bits I might have missed. :thumbsup:

Kathy

kadon
03-11-2009, 03:57 AM
This is what I did today.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/118422-Now.jpg

I'm tempted to give this a rest and try a drawing.

Mary has got it perfect...great job Mary.

The subject's eyes seem to be close together..however in my image they appear wide apart...yet I have measured it, and it is accutage....so must have something to do with the moulding.


Kathy

Grunge
03-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Beautiful work! Don't stop now! You are really looking so much closer and if you stop...will you finish. Keep going!

Okay, here's my one small thing before work...the eye on the left... don't show me so much of the inside of her lower eyelid. Make that a bit more flesh colour. have a look at the high res version to sort it out.

Formal response later!

Great job :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 12:18 PM
Can I paint eyeballs or can I paint eyeballs :D might go over it though cos there's just something wrong with it and I can't seem to muster the correct proportion to the source :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/107353-Picture_132.jpg

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Hey! Arnoud can you do me the honours of layering my last portrait photo over the source for reference as I'm absolutely sure the left viewers eye is out at the top,I can't settle because sitting here looking at it is nagging me that its not right.

Can't go any further till I'm satisfied its proportionally correct to the other,don't ya just hate that, Arrrrrrrgh! :mad:

oops! you're gonna need a newer update as I've altered the face to correct proportions...stay tuned :D

MSegev
03-11-2009, 01:06 PM
Wow, George, now the most fascinating part: the face! Hope Arnoud will "layer" it for you, it really helps. Out of curiosity, why didn't you start with the vewer's left eye?

I think I'm done with the face.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/178320-march_ch_3.jpg

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 01:19 PM
Wow, George, now the most fascinating part: the face! Hope Arnoud will "layer" it for you, it really helps. Out of curiosity, why didn't you start with the vewer's left eye?

I think I'm done with the face.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/178320-march_ch_3.jpg

Marvellous :clap: leave it alone now its done and very well done it is.:D
This is your best yet.
Didn't want to start on any eye really as both were nagging and decide that the viewers right was correct in size and placement,thing is so is/was the viewers left but it just does not want to register in my mind its right

MSegev
03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
George, you've been extremely helpful (and educational), thank you! I learn something new every day and intend to get better with each portrait.

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 01:53 PM
This one Arnoud,thanks.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/107353-Picture_13.jpg

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 01:56 PM
George, you've been extremely helpful (and educational), thank you! I learn something new every day and intend to get better with each portrait.

Glad to be of service to ya Mary,each portrait you do try to put that extra bit of realism into it,its there in every photograph and comes in the form of small details and its these details that make it come alive.

Look at the eye I've just posted its becoming real as I progress on it more and more,as the minute detail gets layed in.
:thumbsup:

MSegev
03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
You're absolutely right, George, and I really appreciate your approach to portraiture. The way you build "form" is fabulous, by the way, and frankly, your drawing looks very accurate.

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 02:24 PM
Hi Folks
Arnoud sent me this awhile ago on masking the painting over the source...

http://wetcanvas.com/Articles2/2921/521/page2.php

Its very easy to do in Paintshop.

Worth printing out for future ref. :thumbsup:

arnoud3272
03-11-2009, 03:11 PM
Hi George,

Glad to be of service. Only problem is that it is rather difficult to find the best level of "Opacity" in a static picture. The optimum is always different for different parts of the picture. I hope this will be of help.
Am i right in concluding from your last post that you found the corresponding commands in Paintshop?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/142886-Picture_13-cmp.jpg

Cheers,
Arnoud

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Hi George,

Glad to be of service. Only problem is that it is rather difficult to find the best level of "Opacity" in a static picture. The optimum is always different for different parts of the picture. I hope this will be of help.
Am i right in concluding from your last post that you found the corresponding commands in Paintshop?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/142886-Picture_13-cmp.jpg

Cheers,
Arnoud
Damn! it that eye is spot on but me brain won't accept it as being right.:mad:

I altered the head last night because the proportions were not right and now I'm faced with this dillema of correcting the eye size,I think the best way is to paint it and correct if it don't look right:(

Seems I have to fix that hair as well. cheers Arnoud.:thumbsup:

I used Paintshop and that link and got the hang of it but have just tried to use Gimp2 and its layering...
http://www.tankedup-imaging.com/gimp/layers.html

kadon
03-11-2009, 03:34 PM
Mary...it's perfect. Kathy

arnoud3272
03-11-2009, 05:28 PM
Theresa, George : Thank you for your detailed comments - although on others' work - I did learn a lot of it.

I have struggled with the face, did it at least ten times, on copies of the previous wip. I came to the conclusion that I chose the wrong size - much too small (possibly also the wrong medium). Shading, i.e. hatching, makes it too harsh.
Well, the month is still young, I will finish the hair on this one and start another much bigger.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-wip5b.jpg

nanaj
03-11-2009, 07:34 PM
Thought I'd post this even though there are still some issues with the face, hair and background.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/117752-head.jpg

TheBaron
03-11-2009, 09:17 PM
How do folks
Happy with this eye now so its time to move over to tother eye :D think its near enough to the source photo but will work on it if it needs tweaking?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/107353-Picture_13s.jpg

Roxie Real
03-11-2009, 09:42 PM
Mary, your painting is beautiful. Roxie

Grunge
03-12-2009, 12:00 AM
Can I paint eyeballs or can I paint eyeballs :D might go over it though cos there's just something wrong with it and I can't seem to muster the correct proportion to the source :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/107353-Picture_132.jpg
That eyeball is so good it's scarey! Like when the bad guy cuts the eyes out of a portrait and spies on his guests from behind the painting. Yikes!

TheBaron
03-12-2009, 12:10 AM
That eyeball is so good it's scarey! Like when the bad guy cuts the eyes out of a portrait and spies on his guests from behind the painting. Yikes!
:lol::lol: I knew that Theresa but I can honestly tell you its an oil for real.:D

Did ya ever see my eye study on a primate? this was scary as well...I stood back and it was staring at me from behind the canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460005

Grunge
03-12-2009, 12:14 AM
Theresa, George : Thank you for your detailed comments - although on others' work - I did learn a lot of it.

I have struggled with the face, did it at least ten times, on copies of the previous wip. I came to the conclusion that I chose the wrong size - much too small (possibly also the wrong medium). Shading, i.e. hatching, makes it too harsh.
Well, the month is still young, I will finish the hair on this one and start another much bigger.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-wip5b.jpg
Sorry Arnoud. I haven't meant to leave you out! but being new in this forum ...well, you know. I don't want to come off like a bossy know-it-all because I'm really not bossy and I certainly don't know it all.

But here are my humble thoughts ...
Yes, pen and ink is quite a difficult medium to deal with when you are trying to copy from an oil painting. Howevetr...I have faith in you and the medium. Consider the beautiful pen and ink drawings of Fraud...the illustrations in Alice Through the Looking Glass. You can do this. I've watched you build this piece and it really is becoming quite charming now that we can see the face. Keep it up and don't you dare compare your work to anyone else. You are working in an entirely different method.

Some suggestions... try some curved cross hatching to build volume and shadows. straight lines tend to flatten the picture. also you could vary your line thickness. Just a thought...

Grunge
03-12-2009, 12:17 AM
:lol::lol: I knew that Theresa but I can honestly tell you its an oil for real.:D

Did ya ever see my eye study on a primate? this was scary as well...I stood back and it was staring at me from behind the canvas

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460005
This eye is much scarier!! I can't wait to see the face develop! You've got skills!!

Grunge
03-12-2009, 12:40 AM
This is what I did today.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2009/118422-Now.jpg

I'm tempted to give this a rest and try a drawing.

Mary has got it perfect...great job Mary.

The subject's eyes seem to be close together..however in my image they appear wide apart...yet I have measured it, and it is accutage....so must have something to do with the moulding.


Kathy

I think this is really looking lovely! She is becoming a real child. (Did I say that before?) I mean it. but the answer to the question is...your eyes are not close enough together.

In this first view I have the two views apart from each other so you can see which is which. On the second view you can see that your eye on the left reaches further to the left.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/60457-6.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/60457-7.jpg

But...this really doesn't bother me
have a look at it on the whole...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/60457-5.jpg
the likeness is really coming together!! I think it's up to you if you want to fool with moving that eye. I'm sure you could do it if you're up to it...but looking at your version I think the difference is negligable.

oh, if you don't get anything I'm talking about...ask me again. I don't know all the art terms...(I do know the technical anatomy terms, but I'm avoiding them) but I'll put little arrows on my posts if that's what it takes. LOL. I'll answer any question and I'm open to anyone's difference of opinion. I'm guess, I'm just offering my fresh eyes.

And beyond that I'm not going to nit pick you to death. (although I could slap you because you're painting clothes already on that neck. But I have a feeling your canvas ends about where you show us and that's probably a good idea if that's the case) Doesn't look like you've gotten to the mouth yet but the work on the nose is wonderful. The eye on the right is so much better but could still use a tiny push with that curve. I think you had it right in your first try on the painting.

Looking great!!!!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

Grunge
03-12-2009, 12:42 AM
Okay, here's my update. I think I liked her better as a blonde.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/60457-9.jpg

winecountry
03-12-2009, 01:17 AM
Some really nice work this month, and I love the ref. Copying it sure makes me appreciate his work more, and bow to his very accute observtion of tones.

Didn't have time for the whole thing, so I took the particular area I'm focused on learning, the far edge foreshortened side of the 3/4 view, esp the eye shape and curve and how the side works into the bg never did get the mouth quite right. I need more practice on that area.:eek:

8x10 pastel
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2009/103030-IMG_2418.JPG

fattab
03-12-2009, 01:20 AM
Working on likeness. What am I missing?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2009/178320-march_challenge_3.JPG
i know you are working on likeness but i love this as is. I like the mutedness to her eyes as it matches the whole look you have here, You have captured the expression so well. :)

fattab
03-12-2009, 01:24 AM
I do think you are all wonderful artists and have enjoyed looking at the various versions you have all come up with it's amazing the differebces, but you have all come up with that expression she has which says so much. :)
I have also enjoyed very much seeing the works in progress..it teaches us so much and is very interesting. Can't wait to see all the final postings.

and Grunge have you tried turning the flash off altogether for inside snaps? At least there is no glare to add highlights where you son't want them. :)

ALBuslovich
03-12-2009, 07:51 AM
I would love to joint this challenge too, and a challenge it was! This was my first try painting and after these hours of pain and joy I think you oil painters
are the kings and queens of the world :D

I had some Genesis heat-set paints at home (from my polymer sculpting) and
thought I would try them on a miniature painting on balsa (primed it with gesso).

When I painted over my drawing it seemed to me that the mouth was not placed correctly (what you do not see is how often I changed something, I am playing with it since yesterday and it is not nearly finished :rolleyes:)

Well, c&c are very welcome!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/173000-portrait_chall_march1.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/173000-portrait_chall_march2.jpg

ALBuslovich
03-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Added some background, (I do not think I got the likeness but I :heart: it!)
C&c very welcome HAPPY PAINTING!

Alexhttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/173000-portrait_chall_march3.jpg

winecountry
03-12-2009, 02:27 PM
Great job on the eyes, and you've caught the expression even if the likeness is not you your liking. I can't even imagine how in the world you can paint so small , remarkable quality for the size. can you show a photo of your brushes?

TheBaron
03-12-2009, 05:31 PM
Added some background, (I do not think I got the likeness but I :heart: it!)
C&c very welcome HAPPY PAINTING!

Alex

Nice little Painting Alex,even if the likeness isn't there.

There's nothing wrong with trying to get the likness back into it though starting with the bridge of the nose ie straighten it and see were that takes you.

Many moons ago I used to dabble with oils on small panels,smaller than that...some were good some not so good.

P.S Welcome to WC and the MPC hope ya continue to take part each month?

TheBaron
03-12-2009, 05:46 PM
This eye is much scarier!! I can't wait to see the face develop! You've got skills!!

Probably nearer to the weekend for an update Theresa as I'm up to my eyes in decorating at the mo:(

Skills? nah just strive for that extra bit of realism ie paint whats in the composition,IT IS there but some people just don't put it in.

Its those little details that make all the diffference.

:thumbsup:

arnoud3272
03-12-2009, 08:03 PM
Thank you for the encouragement, Theresa.

Well, I finished this first study. Will start again on a bigger scale. I changed my mind about the hair on her right side, I found that I needed a kind of background on both sides of the face.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-wip6.jpg

Thank you for looking.

kadon
03-12-2009, 08:09 PM
Thanks again G-T...you are most patient and helpful...very much appreciated.
I'll do some more work on it today..probably leave the eye on the left as is since it doesn't seem to make much difference. Yes, you can stop slapping me as the canvas DOES end at that point (although I am not sure what you mean here:confused: )

Bit worried about doing much to the mouth...but will give it a go.

Yours is coming along beautifully....right from the beginning. I'm lucky to have you as a mentor.

Kathy

TheBaron
03-12-2009, 11:23 PM
How could I have got this so wrong? just started to lay in the skintones and the nose is too short,at least thats how its looking and on top of this the viewers right eye will end up too far away from the top of the bridge of the nose. :(

Damn!

ThreeWolves
03-12-2009, 11:32 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/98863-PICT4493.JPG

Did some work on the hair. I am not sure what else to do about the face. Great work in here. Arnoud I love your drawing.

Many Blessings

Netty
03-13-2009, 03:24 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2009/85966-100_2883.JPG

I have been plodding along the last few days with my oil attempt. I am happy with this so far as it is my second oil portrait, although I would like to make the eyes not so blue and her right eye needs some attention as well.... :eek:
Her hair needs a few more highlights .. Hmmmm I am seeing lots that need fixing :confused:
lol...

I think everyone is doing such a wonderful job on this beautiful lady and it has been so much fun so far... I just wish I had more time to paint!!!!!

George, the eyes are looking very beautiful!!
Arnoud, your sketch is lovely, very much love the way you have cross hatched the bodice to give the added texture.
Nanaj, your pastel is coming along lovely, such soft tones on her face give her a glow.
ThreeWolves, your drawing skills are improving, you have some great tones in the face :)

Annie:)

TheBaron
03-13-2009, 03:33 AM
I have been plodding along the last few days with my oil attempt. I am happy with this so far as it is my second oil portrait, although I would like to make the eyes not so blue and her right eye needs some attention as well.... :eek:
Her hair needs a few more highlights .. Hmmmm I am seeing lots that need fixing :confused:
lol...

I think everyone is doing such a wonderful job on this beautiful lady and it has been so much fun so far... I just wish I had more time to paint!!!!!

Annie:)

If the eyes are still wet? get some grey in there now but put it in with increments and dry brush it in.
Grey will lower the blueness and look far better.
If its dry? use some Liquin in the grey to layer it over Irises.
The grey depends on what you think will work?

Netty
03-13-2009, 03:38 AM
Thanks George, the painting is actually dry now, I have been glazing the skin tones and was thinking I would add a very light glaze of the paynes grey over the eyes. I quite love this glazing :)

kadon
03-13-2009, 04:36 AM
Finished mine!

BUT my camera has packed up (truly). So I can't post it till I get it fixed or get another one. The lens won't open for some reason

:crying: :crying: :crying:

Kathy

kadon
03-13-2009, 04:37 AM
Looking great Netty. Kathy

ALBuslovich
03-13-2009, 05:09 AM
Hi all, I think you all doing great! I adore all the paintings, wish I could do that too :clap: Well, being a beginner can't do anything else than telling you that I love this challenge!

ALBuslovich
03-13-2009, 05:22 AM
I finished the painting, because it has to many issues. I am quite overwhelmed.
And, as I just started painting (before only drawing portraits with a pencil) I had to use the Genesis paints I use for polymer sculpting. I think you can see
the bubbles in the face and throat?
I'm not sure if I overheated the paints or if the wood (although I primed it) or both has
something to do with it?
Well, i will try it out, when I have the time I will do this portrait again, this time on canvas.

C&c as always very welcome!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/173000-portrait_chall_march4.jpg

kadon
03-13-2009, 05:36 AM
Oh..what a pity Al...looks as though it was shaping up well....can understand your disappointment. I don't know much about water based oils, but I didn't think you had to heat the picture...I know there was something about heating...but I thought it was only done if trying to dry more quickly....is that right?

Kathy

MSegev
03-13-2009, 06:28 AM
Kathy, hope you'll fix your camera soon, can't wait to see the finish!

Thanks for the compliment on my latest update, but it's really far from perfect. I think our reference is a masterpiece, and it would take masterful skills to get a perfect replica. We're not that presumptuous! Truly, the more I look at the reference, the more I admire the original painting. I've begun a head study (just for my own sake) in the hopes of getting a more satisfying result. Bless George for starting the "monthly portrait challenge" forum, it's a great learning opportunity!

MSegev
03-13-2009, 06:31 AM
Al, I absolutely adore miniatures! You've taken up on a serious challenge with this portrait, you have guts! Wish I could do small pieces, I don't even have brushes that tiny.

ALBuslovich
03-13-2009, 08:18 AM
Kathy,

I am not very disappointed, I had fun doing the painting and did know that Genesis heat-set paints are a difficult medium.
They have to be heated to be dry, they are mineral oil based and do not dry on air. They work very well on polymer clay but
it seems to me that they are difficult to use on canvas.
Unfortunately there are not many artists who use Genesis, and on wetcanvas I found mostly negative feedback for these paints.
I think the reason is, that you must be very correct heating the paints.


Happy painting!
Alex

ALBuslovich
03-13-2009, 08:22 AM
Mary,

I am using the smallest brushes I can find, and wish there would be smaller ones :lol:

I love your portrait and think you have found the likenes very well! :thumbsup:

Randa2000
03-13-2009, 08:25 AM
nice work everybody ...
i am late joining ..am trying to do the portrait on black gesso , i dont know if it works , black gesso is amazing for landscapes doing wet in wet techniques ,but i have never tried it for doing portrait ,here is my start :confused:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/121987-BIONDINA.JPG

TheBaron
03-13-2009, 12:05 PM
I finished the painting, because it has to many issues. I am quite overwhelmed.
And, as I just started painting (before only drawing portraits with a pencil) I had to use the Genesis paints I use for polymer sculpting. I think you can see
the bubbles in the face and throat?
I'm not sure if I overheated the paints or if the wood (although I primed it) or both has
something to do with it?
Well, i will try it out, when I have the time I will do this portrait again, this time on canvas.

C&c as always very welcome!



Balsa is not really a sound surface to paint on and its my guess the gesso was not enough to seal it and so the paints have penetrated the balsa and the balsa itself starts to warp hence the bubbling of your paint.
Balsa acts like a sponge when painted on and needs more than a gesso coverage to seal it.

TheBaron
03-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Not happy at all with the way this is going :( having to correct the proportions as I go:mad:

I swear I got the drawing right from the outset but things just did not tally when the painting started...damn,,damn..damn Arrrrrrgh!

I'll just have to percy vere and hope for a better outcome on the finish.
All because of one eye.

Have to darken the background now to blend in with the hair outline.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/107353-Picture_158.jpg

MSegev
03-13-2009, 04:12 PM
George, I think it has something to do with the girl's general position on the reference; the angle of her eyes, eyebrows, nose, lips, chin, etc. There's something elusive and deceptive about it. It's quite a trip getting a good likeness; at one moment it's all in the right place, in the next something is entirely off. It'll take a lot of patience on your part, I'm sorry to say.

doctasi
03-13-2009, 06:18 PM
I'm having troubles, too. The likeness is off. And I can't get a good photo. But nothing is finished and there is a couple more weeks in March.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/135953-001.jpg

TheBaron
03-13-2009, 07:06 PM
I'm having troubles, too. The likeness is off. And I can't get a good photo. But nothing is finished and there is a couple more weeks in March.


Good attempt though and its not far off,two things...

Its the same eye that I'm having trouble with, also the head is slightly elongated as is the case of mine and when that happens it will throw the likeness off.

arnoud3272
03-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Shaun, Annie : Thank you for your kind comments.

This week's is a very charming subject, but a real challenge!
I am not drawing tonight, I am studying some tutorials on digital manipulation. Don't ask me how I did, it is still more a happy incident than an understood technique. This is the reference picture reduced to a line drawing by the computer. It could be of use to some of you too. Mind the error on her left eye though.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/142886-Biondina-ref.jpg


Cheers,
and to quote William of Orange (according to Dutch historians) "One need not have a guarantee of success to persevere."
Arnoud

winecountry
03-13-2009, 09:11 PM
if it helps, you might notice the perspective on this is looking at her slightly up, ie view is just below eye level that's how you see the inner lid of the upper eyelid, so if you paint features as tho you are at eye level, you will run into problems.

kadon
03-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Camera's fixed:clap:

I know I have not captured the likeness but this is as far as I think I can go with this. The yellowish tones come out bright in the photo..this does not occur in the actual painting. It's been a great experience to do this exercise for which I thank you George.

Also G-T.you've been wonderful, so unless you find something outstandingly wrong I will call it a day. Congrats. to all who participated as I have learned also from your input.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Mar-2009/118422-One.jpg

Kathy

Grunge
03-13-2009, 10:26 PM
Wow! I have a lot of catching up to do! Thursdays are never good for me and this one was especially busy as I'm cat sitting...or "checking in on" as the case may be. No painting tonight either, but tomorrow I've got all day...

Colleen, your painting is lovely!! Your colors are nice and clean and quite beautiful.

fattab, I haven't turned the flash off for this painting...but I have given that a try in the past. It greys my work. but not to worry. I'll get a decent photo in the end. I will be beaten by no camera! (Sorry Kathy...you're probably feeling a bit sensative on cameras at the moment).

Alex, excellent! next time perhaps rolling out a thin sheet of sculpy for your canvas. then you could heat it they way you are used to heating it. there is still time if you want to give it another shot!


Arnoud, your drawing is so good I didn't realize it is a study, especially with how much time you spent working up to the drawing. Yikes! You're really committed! This drawing really reminds me so much of a framed drawing that I have by artist unknown. I see it in the eyes. Also, she reminds me of the illustrations in the Nancy Drew books. Quite good!

Kathy, :o thank you so much! What I meant about the neck and the size of the canvas is...if you were to correct the length of the neck you might run off the canvas before you get to the shoulders, and that would look a bit wonky, wouldn't it. so to keep the shoulders in the frame, you are better off having the shorter neck. It looks natural enough (I think the original has a freakishly long neck anyway and I wonder if the artist made it longer than it really was) I'm looking forward to seeing your finish. slap your camera around a bit. call it names. see if that helps.

threewolves, good job on your drawing! You've got some nice volume here especially in the cheek as it travels around the curve of the jaw bone. Very nice!

Netty, your painting is looking lovely as well. So much great work here. You've got a good hand for the smooth transitions in the skin. the eyes look great, although I agree on the colour. Nice job on the hair. it just as it should be. no harsh lines.

Baron, don't get hung up here. It's looking really good. Keep going! I want to see it grow into the beautiful painting I know you'll paint.

doctasi, there are two things I can suggest that might help you out here. the first, your hair is a smidge too low on the forehead, which is minor and may not make much difference. the second, and more important...look at the crease of the eye on the right side of the painting. your crease gradually extends to the outer edge of the eye where it meets the corner of the eye creating a point in the corner of the eyelid. now look at the original painting. from the right side of the iris the crease follows the line of the edge of the eyelid and then drops down at an almost 45 degree angle to meet the corner of the lid, creating a more squared off corner of the eyelid. hope this helps.


There, I'm feeling more caught up! sometimes I talk too much. feel free to tell me to shut up.

Bravo everyone! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Grunge
03-13-2009, 10:32 PM
Ah Kathy! you snuck it in while I was writing. It looks wonderful! you must be very pleased. I'm proud of you for really bringing this one to life.:clap: :clap: :clap:

kadon
03-13-2009, 10:57 PM
I measured the neck and it seems OK.....Kathy