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impressionist2
08-08-2002, 06:09 PM
Well, Jerry's shipped in three days from day I placed the order-can't beat that kind of speed.

Lukas 5 - my first impressions, and step right in here , Luis and correct me if I am wrong.

First thing- so much neater than stand oil/turp. Comes in a nice huge tube and recaps clean. Colorless, transparent gel-like medium-oozes right out of the tube easily.

Mixed well with three pre-mixed colors, spread just like the stand oil- creamy smooth.

But, wait, I am used to going back in anytime I want and the stand oil/turp stays creamy all day, and sometimes into the next day, I can still move the paint around on the support ( canvas on panel). But............................whoa- this had tacked up in SEVEN minutes so that the paint is now resisting further movement! I cannot spread it around anymore.

I look at the label and there it is - Driers in the gel. Lots of 'em, I'd guess. Well, okay, maybe this will solve a lot of my mush painting problems and even shorten my painting time in the field. Perhaps this is just the thing to finish in one day instead of two.

Another thing is there is turpentine in the medium and I could smell it in the house so I put the painting on the patio to dry. Could bring it in the house in three hours. I hate fumes.Won't make much difference painting in the field, anyway.

So, the jury is still out but I am looking at this as a new adventure. Let's see how it goes.

Renee

Titanium
08-08-2002, 06:15 PM
Renee,

7 minutes ??????
How little do you need to use ?

What Driers are in the gel ?

Is this an alkyd thinned in solvent ?
Titanium

Wayne Gaudon
08-08-2002, 06:55 PM
SEVEN minutes

... yikes, I paint Alla Prima and I still want my 2 to 3 hours .. I can't paint in tacky ..

impressionist2
08-08-2002, 07:32 PM
Titanium and Wayne, I don't mean it was dry. It still lifted on my hand. I just could no longer spread the paint freely with the knife. There was now resist and the paint would not budge.

I used a lot of medium too, to try it. At least 50/50 medium to paint. I wanted to see if would really stretch the paint and hold the pigment. It was exactly like Luis said. It could not look more colorful if I had just used paint. Amazing.

Renee

hblenkle
08-08-2002, 08:55 PM
Renee,

Did you happen to notice how long the paint on the palette with the painting butter stayed wet enough to use before it hardened and was unable to be used anymore? Is it better to add the medium as needed so it doesn't harden before one can use very much of the mix?

Harold

impressionist2
08-09-2002, 06:14 AM
Harold, I did not notice that because I used all the paint I mixed for the background, so there was only remnants left on the palette. It's a beach scene and I mixed mostly white with dabs of three other colors to get the sand. Then I mixed in a very large blob of the Lukas 5, and applied immediately. Had to remix the whole recipe to spread it over the rest of the canvas. After it was all applied, I had a few minutes to smooth and spread the flow of the sand the way I wanted it.

The fumes were starting to bother me ( any fumes bother me) and so I stepped out onto the patio ( this is around the seven minute mark). Well, I am used to reworking the background to death!:D ( hah! See where this medium may work out well for me?) and ofcourse, tried to continue to "adjust" the paint, when lo and behold, it wouldn't budge!

Well, that's how I paint, adding the medium as needed, and applying immediately, so I may get used to this.

My next questions is, can I leave a blob of the medium by itself, sitting on the palette, without "IT" drying out! So, I can just dip the knife or brush into it, as needed. Or is it going to morph into a marble in minutes?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm...............Luis? Titanium? Leopoldo?

Renee

Titanium
08-09-2002, 07:35 AM
Renee,

all I can suggest is just do it - leave a blob out
and see what happens over a 2 hour period.
[ does it shrink in size,lose the creamy quality,
become stiff ? How long to dry, tack free ?]

Luis, can probably expand on this,but what you
have described seems to be an Alkyd oil resin in
solvent.
The alkyd oil resin is usually very stiff,like very
cold honey.

You can see this with Kremer's GG.

To thin,without solvent,you can add on a few drops
of walnut oil or stand oil.The walnut oil will make it
thinner.
[ That's leave the blob out,let the solvent evaporate
and mix in some walnut/stand oil ]

If you want body,there is W and N's oleopasto.
It's another alkyd oil resin.
Good Luck testing.
Titanium.

impressionist2
08-09-2002, 09:20 AM
Titanium, 7:45 am placed two blobs. One just Lukas 5- one Lukas 5 mixed with stand oil/turp mix.

Forty-five minutes later.

Lukas 5 has a very stiff outer shell with a soft middle. Only the middle is usable.
Lukas 5 mixed with stand oil/turp has separated into an uneven gel-not a good look.

Almost two hours later. Lukas 5 has settled into a stiff gel through and through- no longer usable.

Lukas 5 with the stand oil/turp mix is starting to harden but still can be used. It's got a murky look, though, so not sure if that's a good idea.

Hmmm....................paint faster?:)

Renee

artbabe21
08-09-2002, 10:02 AM
Luis!!!!!!!!!!!!! Helloo???????? You forgot to tell us this part! I have 3 tubes on the way!

Renee, did you mix this 50/50?? What about a smaller ratio? That's why we use oils[LOL] so we can work them to death! This would be like acrylics to me......sure death to painting as I know it! Hummmmmmmmmmmm. Gotta be a way out of this?????? It sounded so perfect for fat paint. I wouldn't care for an odor either!

Cathleen~

guillot
08-09-2002, 11:08 AM
This sounds like an interesting medium to me. I'll have to check some of it out myself.

artbabe21
08-09-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2
I just could no longer spread the paint freely with the knife. There was now resist and the paint would not budge.


Maybe this is the ultimate artists medium after all, "a stroke laid is a stroke staid" whether you like it or not!!!!!!!!

Cathleen~

impressionist2
08-09-2002, 04:43 PM
Cathleen, Just got back from painting a day at the beach, rocks in the surf.

Two things. First I toned my canvas dark like Wayne and Christine lafuente-loved it!!!! The lights pop right out of the dark background. Never worked on toned canvas before-terrific.

Then I just used a small dab ( size of a marble) of lukas 5 and mixed it in small dabs with the brush with my paint and working with it outside is great! Can't smell it outdoors!

I am starting to like this very much as my big problem is all the colors mushing together and getting muddy. The driers eliminate that altogether.


Cathleen, I think you will like this stuff. Just takes getting used to.

Renee

Wayne Gaudon
08-09-2002, 06:06 PM
:D
.. the only thing to remember is that the overall effect will lower the luster of your brights as a white on white will be brighter than a white on black .. least that is what I have read but if a paint is opaque I don't understand the principal if you paint with thick paint.

As for the butter, it takes a while to get used to anything and learn the rules of it's employment. What seems a disadvantage could be your biggest advantage if you take the time to learn what it can and can't do. What does it do to your brush .. ie .. do you have to soak the brush while you paint or can you just leave it sitting on the table without fear of it getting hard.

Luis Guerreiro
08-09-2002, 06:10 PM
Hi All,

Glad you are experimenting with Lukas 5.
This is a great medium. Its drying time can be regulated with the addition of either turpentine, bees wax medium or linseed oil or a combination of any of these. This will enable you to control drying times. Such additions must be very spare, to keep this medium Impasto nature.
Driers are not cobalt nor lead oxides. Driers are from the resins themselves : Alkyd and cyclohaxanone resins which dry really fast, in particular the later which makes the paint film dry from the inside out without wrinkling or cracking.

Luis!!!!!!!!!!!!! Helloo???????? You forgot to tell us this part! I have 3 tubes on the way!
Cathleen,
Not to worry. I don't experience this extremely fast drying rate here in London, it may be climate and humidity, but My Lukas 5 dries hard in 36 hours, it is soft and can be worked well for up to 7 hours at the least (not 7 minutes!... Gosh!) Adapt its drying rate according to your requirements as explained above. :)
Its somewhat murky lookdoesn't make it any justice. Mixed with oil colours, makes them stand out in their full glory.
Well let me know how you get on with this medium, any help, just shout: Luuuuuuuuuuuuis! :D
L :)

Luis Guerreiro
08-09-2002, 06:24 PM
Renee,

I used a lot of medium too, to try it. At least 50/50 medium to paint. I wanted to see if would really stretch the paint and hold the pigment. It was exactly like Luis said. It could not look more colorful if I had just used paint. Amazing.

Indeed! Lukas 5 has the property to not just be an excellent medium, but also a great paint extender. Colours don't loose their luminance or strength.

Luis Guerreiro
08-09-2002, 06:29 PM
My next questions is, can I leave a blob of the medium by itself, sitting on the palette, without "IT" drying out! So, I can just dip the knife or brush into it, as needed. Or is it going to morph into a marble in minutes?

Renee,

Yes of course you can, a couple of drops of raw cold pressed linseed oil retard it enough for a few hours. Or mix up a 50/50 linseed raw cold pressed with turps and use that as a retarder if necessary to have a leaner retarder.
This medium should do well for your style of painting. For painters who need more time, retard it as above said.
For painters who want a very fast drying, use it pure.
Drying depends a lot on climate conditions. My LUKAS 5 doesn't dry as fast as you describe it...
Luis :)

impressionist2
08-09-2002, 08:10 PM
This is the painting, albeit unfinished, that I did with Wayne's dark toned canvas on panel and Luis' Lukas 5 medium. I am so happy!

The toned background made me feel like the painting had a head start. All I had to do was pop out the colors! The Lukas 5 dried up so my colors didn't all mush together and I had a fun day at the beach. Tomorrow I will adjust the colors and tighten up some edges-not all.

I feel like I am painting an amazing new way.

Renee

Titanium
08-09-2002, 08:48 PM
Wayne

.. the only thing to remember is that the overall effect will lower the luster of your brights as a white on white will be brighter than a white on black .. least that is what I have read but if a paint is opaque I don't understand the principal if you paint with thick paint.


The idea behind the toned canvas is simple.
Instant Light.

If your paint is pigment rich oil poor.Then it is opaque.
[ we are talking about opaque pigments here ]
So it will cover the dark well, especially in thick coats.

If you use oil rich [ or in this case Lukas 5 ] and pigment
poor [ 50 Lukas to 50 paint is considered pigment poor].
You will have poor covering power.Adding linseed oil to
the Lukas will also increase the yellowing factor.
[not meaning to cross Luis]

The pigment rich state blocks the yellowing,when using
opaque pigments.

I bought 4 paintings that were thinned with linseed from
the 60's,they are very yellowed.
Gallery Tone is what I believe it is are called.
Titanium

Luis Guerreiro
08-09-2002, 09:57 PM
This is the painting, albeit unfinished, that I did with Wayne's dark toned canvas on panel and Luis' Lukas 5 medium. I am so happy!

Hi Renee,

I must say I've had a really rough week, very difficult...
Finally, someone managed to put a smile on my face... You!
I did tell you that this LUKAS 5 would be ideal for you... :)
I am happy to have been of service.
Have a grand weekend.
Best regards
Luis :)

Wayne Gaudon
08-09-2002, 10:13 PM
Luis .. me too .. I got honorable mention for toning my boards .. even if I only tone them by scraping down bad paintings :D

Rene .. looking good.

artbabe21
08-09-2002, 11:10 PM
Renee,
Thanks for testing this out & letting us all know about your experiences. I think your painting is looking great. Glad you are so happy with the medium after all. I like the fact that it stay put & you are avoiding mud. You seem to be experiencing some pretty exciting things!

Luis dear,
Sorry you've had a bad week. It'll get better. Thanks for further information on Lukas 5. In trying to retard it, is the raw cold pressed linseed oil the only thing to use or just the best? I just may not have access to any for awhile. Until I travel to Seattle in September and go wild in Daniel Smiths. No hurry, I see you have your plate full & hope you get your artist's studios filled!

Wayne, Your honorable mention is duly noted!!!!

Cathleen~

Wayne Gaudon
08-10-2002, 04:22 AM
Hey Pres
.... I should not get mention for that .. I didn't do my boards to use them, so it's funny that Rene picked that up. I have used toned boards but the one's Rene saw were just some scraped down paintings .. too funny the things that influence us .. circumstance or chance ? :D

impressionist2
08-10-2002, 08:39 AM
......."circumstance or chance ? "

Wayne, See what I get for reading too fast! When you originally posted the pic of those boards, you told Cathleen, "Here's my latest paintings, Haha" I thought you were just being funny because you had only toned them. Didn't realize you had scraped them down! They looked so beautiful ( I see beauty in unusual places) and I thought, that's something I want to try.

You can imagine what this is like for me, after using white canvas exclusively. It's a revelation! Now, since I don't use thinners, I never could tone the canvas before. But, with the Lukas 5 which contains turps already...And driers, a Large blob of it mixed with my darks, does the trick and dries in twenty minutes. I was able to bring three freshly toned canvas on panels along with me, dry to the touch and no smell in the car.

Cathleen, I think you are going to enjoy this medium a lot! That murkiness disappears as soon as it hits the paint. Then, it looks like you never added any medium, except the "flow" is fabulous. Now I have a hard time Gaining edges. Before this it was tough to lose the edges.

Titanium wrote:The idea behind the toned canvas is simple.
Instant Light.

Couldn't have said it better! That's it, in a nutshell!

Luis, Thanks for everything and may this upcoming week be so good as to make you forget about the past one.

Renee

Wayne Gaudon
08-10-2002, 08:47 AM
Cool .. I remember the first time I used one .. had a somewhat purple grey and added a cream for a cloud .. wow .. it was like someone turned a flashlight on. Looking forward to the finish of your piece.

impressionist2
08-10-2002, 01:27 PM
Wayne, Did you order this medium? I know Cathleen did. It has increased my speed by double. I'll be able to finally crank out some paintings on a consistent basis-never could before.

Here it is, finished in about three and a half hours total..........and I am happy with it. Boy, am I glad I met the artist/chemists on Wet Canvas.

If Tim asks again where we learned the most-I'd say right here on WC!

Renee

Wayne Gaudon
08-10-2002, 03:36 PM
Nice piece .. yes I did .. and yes, WC is a God send .. Met Jack Reid today at the art store .. very good water colorist with 2 books to his credit and working on his third .. real nice guy .. hadn't a clue who he was, we just started a converstaion and introduced ourselves as we talked. What a high to have met and talked with a pro and held me own in the converstaion about the jobs of making art.

:D

Luis Guerreiro
08-10-2002, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Gaudon
Luis .. me too .. I got honorable mention for toning my boards .. even if I only tone them by scraping down bad paintings :D

Rene .. looking good.

HE HE HE! :D

Luis Guerreiro
08-10-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by artbabe21
Luis dear,
Sorry you've had a bad week. It'll get better. Thanks for further information on Lukas 5. In trying to retard it, is the raw cold pressed linseed oil the only thing to use or just the best? I just may not have access to any for awhile. Until I travel to Seattle in September and go wild in Daniel Smiths. No hurry, I see you have your plate full & hope you get your artist's studios filled!
Cathleen~

Hi Cathleen,
My week was mad :D.
If you don't have raw linseed oil, use another, even walnut oil from the supermarket will do. All you need is a few drops which will retard the drying time enough. Raw cold pressed is preferred for this. A 50/50 mix of oil with turps can also be used safely.
You're right, my plate is full just now, but I always have time to help you guys. No question about that. ;)
Best
Luis

Luis Guerreiro
08-10-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2
......."circumstance or chance ? "

You can imagine what this is like for me, after using white canvas exclusively. It's a revelation! Now, since I don't use thinners, I never could tone the canvas before. But, with the Lukas 5 which contains turps already...And driers, a Large blob of it mixed with my darks, does the trick and dries in twenty minutes. I was able to bring three freshly toned canvas on panels along with me, dry to the touch and no smell in the car.
Luis, Thanks for everything and may this upcoming week be so good as to make you forget about the past one.
Renee

Renee,
Thanks. I hope so.
I am glad you're enjoying these new experiences with LUKAS 5.
Also try some dry brush scumbling. You'll be surprised at the result. Good texture and luminous paint makes the scumbling jump out of the canvas. Let me know when you try it.
I hope I have a better week... Working something like 14 hours a day on average is not doing me any good right now... Tiresome!
Best
Luis :)